Yahoo! Message number: 3000
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No virus found
in this message. Yahoo! Message number: 3020
Yahoo! Message number: 3021
Yahoo! Message number: 3022
Thank you for the warm welcome. :) No
virus found in this message. No virus found
in this message. Yahoo! Message number: 3023
Yahoo! Message number: 3024
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i have a version of dos 6.0 and 6.22 that have been
edited and combined No virus found
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No virus found
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My apologies, I should have done this in my first post.
Please refer to the following photo: No
virus found in this message. No virus found
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Yahoo! Message number: 3036
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Yahoo! Message number: 3038
I have a printed version of the RS-232-C Standard, and
I'm not aware of No virus found
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No virus found
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Yahoo! Message number: 3056 Yahoo! Message number: 3057
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No virus found
in this message. Yahoo! Message number: 3125
Yahoo! Message number: 3126 This is part 1 of a multi-part message.
Yes, the host floppy is a: on my system at least. The app
really does look like it is writing to it and that disk
appears blank on dosbox and the host computer.
This is part 2 of a multi-part message.
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No virus found
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Yahoo! Message number: 3210
Yahoo! Message number: 3211
This is part 2 of a multi-part message.
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I had my Tempest setup out the other day, thought I
would post a pic. Yahoo! Message number: 3213
Yahoo! Message number: 3214
Yahoo! Message number: 3215
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This is part 2 of a multi-part message.
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Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 11:22:43 -0700
From: Ian Finder
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Compass-II 1129 SPOC (1984) System Build
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Oh so you're the guy who bought the one listed at $500.00 on eBay and resisted it two days later $35,000.00?
Cool beans!
Date: 15 Jul 2015 16:22:01 -0700
From: pullin_gs@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Compass-II 1129 SPOC (1984) System Build
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Yes, that is my Grid.
The high-profile (high-price) add has already paid dividends.
I got a message from the folks over at Johnson Space Center in Houston and also received a message yesterday from the current SPoC Team Lead (SPoC not same as SPOC).
He shared a few thoughts and observations regarding how things have evolved of the years. I was given a glimpse of what his team has been working on which will travel on their next manned mission. My how things have changed!
I still have not heard from anyone who worked the original program in the early eighties (they would be in their 60's now?). I'll let the add run for a few more weeks before I pull it. Hopefully I get some more messages, and maybe even a contact who would like to discuss SPOC from the old days.
Date: 18 Jul 2015 09:53:47 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: Compass-II 1129 SPOC (1984) System Build
text/plain; charset=utf-8
That a great computer you have, is the spoc software on the roms? I would assume its in the bubble memory it would be great if it could get backed up in case the bubble starts failing, do you have the floppy drive for the compass. Does it have modem software on it, might be able to back it up that way .
Grant
Date: 18 Jul 2015 11:40:20 -0700
From: pullin_gs@...
Subject: Re: Compass-II 1129 SPOC (1984) System Build
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Thanks for the note Grant.
I thought SPOC software was on ROMs. I was wrong.
When I backed up the GRID-OS EPROM.....I did a HEX inspection it was clear that the ROMs are standard GRID-OS ROMs. :-(
I did not back up the GRID-UTILITIES ROM (not EPROM) because I am unsure as to how to do this with my SUPERPROO-III EPROM burner.
This Grid has a custom BIOS I think.
The Compass boots straight to SPOC bypassing GRID-OS boot messages or GRID-OS operations menus.
When I boot it, the screen stays blank for a few seconds and then displays the "51-I Mission" welcome boot-splash screen.
This displays for about 15 seconds and then goes directly the "Enter GMT Time" screen and awaits input.
When I press CODE-U or any other CODE sequence they are ignored. It only accepts CODE commands that are displayed (CODE-RETURN or CODE-ESC) for the input screen.
One of the ROM chips is the GRID-UTILITIES ROM.....I think this includes GRID-DUMP (or whatever its called) that allows you to do an INTEL-HEX formatted dump of memory contents out the RS232 port.
Can you share any insight as to how to access the GRID-OS-Utilities? Maybe an escape sequence or CODE-command that I have missed?
Date: 18 Jul 2015 15:32:42 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: Compass-II 1129 SPOC (1984) System Build
text/plain; charset=utf-8
I have my 1139 apart right now as im working on another project , the 1139 is basically the same as a 1129 but with a bigger screen I do have a 1129 motherboard and they are the same the bios roms will probably be a tad different i did unsolder and dump the 1139 bios but have not dumped the 1129/ guess i should do that and compare them
The compass will default to the bubble if there is a bootable media on there, which would be your case
Ok if memory serves me you hold F or D for floppy R for rom or D or B or maybe H for bubble when power on
it will boot from rom or disk or bubble , But mines apart at the moment to test
let me know if that get you anywhere, i had 1 bubble fail in my 1139 and are not easy to find
Date: 12 Aug 2015 14:27:41 -0700
From: ianfinder@...
Subject: Looking for a GRiD Compass 1XXX Power Supply!
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi folks,
I recently came into a Compass 1101. I'd like to get it running. Imagine my surprise when I took it apart and found it complete except for no power supply or modem.
If anyone has a donor power supply from an 1101, 1129 (or a modem for that matter)-- or a complete parts machine-- in any condition PLEASE (!!!) get in touch with me.
I will pay good money. I'd really like to get this machine going again.
As always, I'm looking for other compass systems as well, as I've begun undertaking a reverse engineering project based around CCOS.
I'm also still looking for a GRIDCASE 15XX series plasma inverter.
I can be reached at <ian.finder@gmail.com>.
Cheers,
- Ian
Date: 23 Aug 2015 13:47:23 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: GRiDMAN
Going through my compass disks and found this gem
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 01:28:30 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDMAN [1 Attachment]
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Klyball,That is AWESOME!Very impressive!-Shawn
From: "klyball@hotmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 4:47 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDMAN [1 Attachment]
<!--#yiv2759713493 #yiv2759713493 .yiv2759713493ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv2759713493 div.yiv2759713493ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv2759713493 div.yiv2759713493photo-title a, #yiv2759713493 div.yiv2759713493photo-title a:active, #yiv2759713493 div.yiv2759713493photo-title a:hover, #yiv2759713493 div.yiv2759713493photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2759713493 div.yiv2759713493attach-table div.yiv2759713493attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv2759713493 div.yiv2759713493attach-table div.yiv2759713493attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv2759713493 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv2759713493 div.yiv2759713493ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv2759713493 div.yiv2759713493attach-table div.yiv2759713493attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2759713493 div.yiv2759713493attach-table div.yiv2759713493attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv2759713493 div.yiv2759713493ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv2759713493 --> <!--#yiv2759713493 #yiv2759713493ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv2759713493 #yiv2759713493ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv2759713493 #yiv2759713493ygrp-mkp #yiv2759713493hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv2759713493 #yiv2759713493ygrp-mkp #yiv2759713493ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv2759713493 #yiv2759713493ygrp-mkp .yiv2759713493ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv2759713493 #yiv2759713493ygrp-mkp .yiv2759713493ad p {margin:0;}#yiv2759713493 #yiv2759713493ygrp-mkp .yiv2759713493ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}-->[Attachment(s) from klyball@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] included below]
Going through my compass disks and found this gem
Date: 29 Aug 2015 11:21:04 -0700
From: ianfinder@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDMAN [1 Attachment]
Are you planning to start imaging and posting the disks? It would be really nice and helpful, and I want to play PacMan. ;)
I can help image and pay shipping for disks if you need but we should get this stuff preserved and online if possible.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 02:54:17 GMT
From: "uncle_fred1@..."
Subject: New member testing
Greetings fellow GRiD owners.
I have a GRiDCASE 1530 (really a friends) and a "straight" GRiDCASE. Having trouble with the 1530 serial port. I have yet to download any configuration software as the files section for this group is grayed out.
This message is a quick info post and to see if I am really subscribed!
My/our main use for these computers will be for RTTY terminals. I have a Dovetron and a HAL ST-8000 among others. Also use the GRiDCASE to program radios that "require" DOS (it's serial port works FB).
More "profile" to follow if this goes through.
Thanks,
Fred Sell
WA7OBB
Riverton, Oregon (Near Coquille)
____________________________________________________________
Meet the Graviteers: Ezekiel Victor
My name is Zeke! I find it hard to pick favorites because I get sick of too much of one thing.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5611e69d1c72669c2e40st03duc
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 01:24:18 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] New member testing
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hello there, Fred.Welcome to the group.I do not know why the Files section is grayed out. I see you are a member. As a member, you should have access to the Files section. I have no explanation as to why it's not working for you.I will say that your email ended up in my Spam folder. My guess the reason is the juno hyperlink that Juno inserts in to every email.
Back to your question, I'm not an expert on the 1530. In DOS, you might want to try the MODE command to turn on the serial port. On the 1520 and 1550, there is a file called conf1520.exe (or conf1550.exe). It allows you to enable or disable the serial port. Perhaps that is the problem. You might want to look for a conf1530.exe file.
Wow! The HAL ST-8000. I remember when I would have just about killed for one of those! Nowadays, it's all SDR tuners and software. Progress, eh?73,-Shawn
From: "'uncle_fred1@...' uncle_fred1@juno.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: rugrid-laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2015 10:54 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] New member testing
Greetings fellow GRiD owners.
I have a GRiDCASE 1530 (really a friends) and a "straight" GRiDCASE. Having trouble with the 1530 serial port. I have yet to download any configuration software as the files section for this group is grayed out.
This message is a quick info post and to see if I am really subscribed!
My/our main use for these computers will be for RTTY terminals. I have a Dovetron and a HAL ST-8000 among others. Also use the GRiDCASE to program radios that "require" DOS (it's serial port works FB).
More "profile" to follow if this goes through.
Thanks,
Fred Sell
WA7OBB
Riverton, Oregon (Near Coquille)
____________________________________________________________
Meet the Graviteers: Ezekiel Victor
My name is Zeke! I find it hard to pick favorites because I get sick of too much of one thing.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5611e69d1c72669c2e40st03duc
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 03:48:16 GMT
From: "uncle_fred1@..."
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] New member testing
Shawn,
Maybe it's a login thing, I will try again and maybe contact Yahoo as a last resort!
I tried the mode thing, used the boot disk that works with the other machine. Not the same I know but was worth a try. I thought I had a 1500 series config program but not so sure now.
Other things in the way right now so will try again in a few days.
Yes, the ST-8000 is trick. I won the chance to purchase it in a lottery, got it for $175 delivered.
Fred
____________________________________________________________
Meet the Graviteers: Ezekiel Victor
My name is Zeke! I find it hard to pick favorites because I get sick of too much of one thing.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/561344dcbf57144dc0eb1st02duc
Date: 06 Nov 2015 12:27:13 -0800
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: External Numberpad
text/plain; charset=utf-8
I recently bought a external grid numberpad for my gridcase 1520.
It uses the keyboard port and is model 32160
The problem is every time I plug it in and press a key, my gridcase beeps like crazy and displays a =
every time I press a key. I think there must be a driver I have to load into ram first but I am unable to find one.
The plug is intact and in very good condition.
Do you guys think that the numberpad is broken or is it a software problem?
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2015 04:23:07 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] External Numberpad
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I will pull mine from storage this weekend and see what happens.I'll let you know.-Shawn
From: "joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 3:27 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] External Numberpad
<!--#yiv2906499679 #yiv2906499679 .yiv2906499679ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv2906499679 div.yiv2906499679ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv2906499679 div.yiv2906499679photo-title a, #yiv2906499679 div.yiv2906499679photo-title a:active, #yiv2906499679 div.yiv2906499679photo-title a:hover, #yiv2906499679 div.yiv2906499679photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2906499679 div.yiv2906499679attach-table div.yiv2906499679attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv2906499679 div.yiv2906499679attach-table div.yiv2906499679attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv2906499679 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv2906499679 div.yiv2906499679ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv2906499679 div.yiv2906499679attach-table div.yiv2906499679attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2906499679 div.yiv2906499679attach-table div.yiv2906499679attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv2906499679 div.yiv2906499679ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv2906499679 --> <!--#yiv2906499679 #yiv2906499679ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv2906499679 #yiv2906499679ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv2906499679 #yiv2906499679ygrp-mkp #yiv2906499679hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv2906499679 #yiv2906499679ygrp-mkp #yiv2906499679ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv2906499679 #yiv2906499679ygrp-mkp .yiv2906499679ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv2906499679 #yiv2906499679ygrp-mkp .yiv2906499679ad p {margin:0;}#yiv2906499679 #yiv2906499679ygrp-mkp .yiv2906499679ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}-->
I recently bought a external grid numberpad for my gridcase 1520.
It uses the keyboard port and is model 32160
The problem is every time I plug it in and press a key, my gridcase beeps like crazy and displays a =every time I press a key. I think there must be a driver I have to load into ram first but I am unable to find one.The plug is intact and in very good condition.
Do you guys think that the numberpad is broken or is it a software problem?
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 15:49:16 +0000
From: Guillaume Le Saint
Subject: Gridcase 3 - ROMs and software
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hello everyone,
I finally got my hands on a GRiD laptop, a Gridcase 3.
It came without any ROM, with a 3.5" drive and just a "travel disk" that's
loaded with MSDOS 2.11.
Can it run GRiD OS? I'd like to try it.
Can you guys let me know how to get my hands on software or ROM?
Thanks!
Guillaume
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 17:59:44 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Gridcase 3 - ROMs and software
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hello Guillaume and welcome to the group! :)Please take a look in the Files area to see if the files you need are there.If not feel free to email the group again.Glad to have you here,-Shawn
From: "Guillaume Le Saint glesaint@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:49 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Gridcase 3 - ROMs and software
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Hello everyone,
I finally got my hands on a GRiD laptop, a Gridcase 3.
It came without any ROM, with a 3.5" drive and just a "travel disk" that's loaded with MSDOS 2.11.
Can it run GRiD OS? I'd like to try it.
Can you guys let me know how to get my hands on software or ROM?
Thanks!
Guillaume
Date: 28 Nov 2015 16:42:49 -0800
From: asajay@...
Subject: Is there a way to get software out of the ROM?
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Brand new member here.
I have a few GRiDcase units, but not exactly sure of the models.
The one I'm currently concerned with has a 720K floppy, a parallel port, two serial ports and an IEEE port. The unit appears to operate fine; however, it has a radio control program built-in to the ROM (boots directly to it) and I would very much like to get it off the GRiD and working on another computer (non-GRiD) in a DOS window. I've managed to get most files copied off the ROM; those I can "see" at the prompt. But when I go to run the application in a DOS window on another machine, I get an error that it can't access the ROM drive though parts of the application do run.
I think there are some other files hidden from view and unfortunately ATTRIB is not included in the DOS utilities already on the system. Either that or the application is hard-coded to look at a specific part of the ROM, I don't know for certain. I also do not have a copy of GRiD DOS 3.2.
I do have a copy of GRiD DOS 5.0 on three 1.4M floppies but they don't work in the 720K drive.
So is there a way for me to get more off this machine? It's running DOS 3.2 according to the decal on the ROM chip above the keyboard.
I can probably supply photos if it would help.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2015 04:58:07 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Is there a way to get software out of the ROM?
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hello there, Asa Jay and welcome to the group! :)The model type of your Grid units will be on the bottom of the unit. It also could be on the back, but most are on the bottom. It should be an 1520 or 1184 or 1180 or something like that. From your description, it sounds like you have a 1520 without a hard drive. It is possible that there is a hard drive, but it has died and it is not responding.I am not familiar with the radio control program. I do not know why the program is looking for the ROM when it is run. I think here is a DOS command to redirect the a drive to another drive letter. It's odd that 1.44 floppies don't work in the 720K drive. My 1520's will read both.You might try pressing the 'f' key during boot to see if you can get the Grid to boot from floppy. If it does boot, the the MS-DOS 5 installer will probably be looking a hard drive to install to. But, it would test if the drive can read 1.44 floppies.Good luck and please tell us your results,-Shawn
From: "asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2015 7:42 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Is there a way to get software out of the ROM?
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Brand new member here.
I have a few GRiDcase units, but not exactly sure of the models.
The one I'm currently concerned with has a 720K floppy, a parallel port, two serial ports and an IEEE port. The unit appears to operate fine; however, it has a radio control program built-in to the ROM (boots directly to it) and I would very much like to get it off the GRiD and working on another computer (non-GRiD) in a DOS window. I've managed to get most files copied off the ROM; those I can "see" at the prompt. But when I go to run the application in a DOS window on another machine, I get an error that it can't access the ROM drive though parts of the application do run.
I think there are some other files hidden from view and unfortunately ATTRIB is not included in the DOS utilities already on the system. Either that or the application is hard-coded to look at a specific part of the ROM, I don't know for certain. I also do not have a copy of GRiD DOS 3.2.
I do have a copy of GRiD DOS 5.0 on three 1.4M floppies but they don't work in the 720K drive.
So is there a way for me to get more off this machine? It's running DOS 3.2 according to the decal on the ROM chip above the keyboard.
I can probably supply photos if it would help.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2015 21:25:54 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Is there a way to get software out of the ROM?
I can't find any model numbers on this unit at all. Please check
out the photos here:
http://asajay.com/TSC-60/V9GRiD/
I've not opened the case to see if it has a hard drive, but I doubt
that it does. I've worked with those that have hard drives and this
one seems to be an earlier model. I could still be wrong though but
might have to take it apart to know for certain.
Since all the files appear on A: even when a floppy is not
installed, I doubt there is a hard drive. When a floppy is
inserted, the files on the floppy will appear on the same A: in
addition to those not on the floppy.
Example:
Without floppy installed, a DIR listing will show (note this is not
a complete listing)
command.com
autoexec.bat
Install the floppy with two programs and now the A: listing will
show
command.com
autoexec.bat
program1.exe (from floppy)
program2.exe (from floppy)
So that's a bit weird but okay.
To copy those files from A: to a floppy, I use copy A: B: and the
system expects me to swap floppies, which works, I just insert the
B: floppy when it wants it and don't insert one when it wants A:
This is an ex-military model used with an old HF radio facility.
The radio control program is in ROM. The laptop boots straight into
the app via the autoexec.bat file. The only way I can interrupt it
is by constantly pressing Ctrl+C while the autoexec is running and
before it starts the program. Normally, a person with this problem
would simply want to get a ROM set with a standard OS and typical
applications. However, in my case, I'd like to get the radio
control program OFF the ROM in order to work with it on a modern
computer. The software still controls the radios quite well but I'd
like to get it working on a modern computer in order to do some
additional things with it.
An early 720K floppy drive will ONLY read 1.4M floppies formatted to
"look" like 720K floppies. The GRiD DOS 5.0 disks are formatted as
1.4M and they read just fine in my desktop but NOT on the GRiD. If
I put that floppy into the drive, the laptop attempts to boot to it,
but it can't find any files on it, so I have to remove the floppy
and do a Ctrl+Alt+Delete. Interesting enough, I'm using 1.4M
floppies (formatted as 720K) to transfer files and I have to tape
over the extra hole in the floppy in order to get my desktop to read
them as a 720K floppy, though on the GRiD it doesn't care about the
extra hole.
In short, it all works fine and as-designed. I would simply like to
get -everything- off the ROM, but can't "see" everything that's on
it. Perhaps if I could get the entire suite of DOS 3.2 files I
could use the ATTRIB command to view whatever is hidden.
Unfortunately, the DIR command does not recognize the switch a:h and
trying to copy anything that might be hidden is impossible at the
moment.
What would really do it is some program that I could run from floppy
that would walk through the ROM and copy it's entire contents out to
floppy. Is there such an animal?
Please review the photos linked at the beginning of this email and
see if you can tell exactly what model it is.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 11/28/2015 8:58 PM, Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]
wrote:
From:
"asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
To:
RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Saturday, November 28, 2015 7:42 PM
Subject:
[RuGRiD-Laptop] Is there a way to get software out
of the ROM?
Brand new member here.
I have a few GRiDcase units, but not exactly
sure of the models.
The one I'm currently concerned with has a 720K
floppy, a parallel port, two serial ports and an
IEEE port. The unit appears to operate fine;
however, it has a radio control program built-in
to the ROM (boots directly to it) and I would
very much like to get it off the GRiD and
working on another computer (non-GRiD) in a DOS
window. I've managed to get most files copied
off the ROM; those I can "see" at the prompt.
But when I go to run the application in a DOS
window on another machine, I get an error that
it can't access the ROM drive though parts of
the application do run.
I think there are some other files hidden from
view and unfortunately ATTRIB is not included in
the DOS utilities already on the system. Either
that or the application is hard-coded to look at
a specific part of the ROM, I don't know for
certain. I also do not have a c opy of GRiD DOS
3.2.
I do have a copy of GRiD DOS 5.0 on three 1.4M
floppies but they don't work in the 720K drive.
So is there a way for me to get more off this
machine? It's running DOS 3.2 according to the
decal on the ROM chip above the keyboard.
I can probably supply photos if it would help.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7227 / Virus Database: 4477/11083 - Release
Date: 11/28/15
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 08:10:52 +0000 (UTC)
From: =?UTF-8?B?0K7RgNC40Lkg0JvQtdGB0LrQvtCy0LXRhg==?=
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=9E=D1=82=D0=B2:_[RuGRiD-Laptop]_Is_there_a_w?= =?UTF-8?Q?ay_to_get_software_out_of_the_ROM=3F?=
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hello, Asa Jay!
This is GRiDCase Model IV.
If you want to sell it, we can buy.
Yuri, Director of Computer Museum.
понедельник, 30 ноября 2015 10:26 "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> писал(а):
Thank you for the warm welcome. :)
I can't find any model numbers on this unit at all. Please check out the photos here:
http://asajay.com/TSC-60/V9GRiD/
I've not opened the case to see if it has a hard drive, but I doubt that it does. I've worked with those that have hard drives and this one seems to be an earlier model. I could still be wrong though but might have to take it apart to know for certain.
Since all the files appear on A: even when a floppy is not installed, I doubt there is a hard drive. When a floppy is inserted, the files on the floppy will appear on the same A: in addition to those not on the floppy.
Example:
Without floppy installed, a DIR listing will show (note this is not a complete listing)
command.com
autoexec.bat
Install the floppy with two programs and now the A: listing will show
command.com
autoexec.bat
program1.exe (from floppy)
program2.exe (from floppy)
So that's a bit weird but okay.
To copy those files from A: to a floppy, I use copy A: B: and the system expects me to swap floppies, which works, I just insert the B: floppy when it wants it and don't insert one when it wants A:
This is an ex-military model used with an old HF radio facility. The radio control program is in ROM. The laptop boots straight into the app via the autoexec.bat file. The only way I can interrupt it is by constantly pressing Ctrl+C while the autoexec is running and before it starts the program. Normally, a person with this problem would simply want to get a ROM set with a standard OS and typical applications. However, in my case, I'd like to get the radio control program OFF the ROM in order to work with it on a modern computer. The software still controls the radios quite well but I'd like to get it working on a modern computer in order to do some additional things with it.
An early 720K floppy drive will ONLY read 1.4M floppies formatted to "look" like 720K floppies. The GRiD DOS 5.0 disks are formatted as 1.4M and they read just fine in my desktop but NOT on the GRiD. If I put that floppy into the drive, the laptop attempts to boot to it, but it can't find any files on it, so I have to remove the floppy and do a Ctrl+Alt+Delete. Interesting enough, I'm using 1.4M floppies (formatted as 720K) to transfer files and I have to tape over the extra hole in the floppy in order to get my desktop to read them as a 720K floppy, though on the GRiD it doesn't care about the extra hole.
In short, it all works fine and as-designed. I would simply like to get -everything- off the ROM, but can't "see" everything that's on it. Perhaps if I could get the entire suite of DOS 3.2 files I could use the ATTRIB command to view whatever is hidden. Unfortunately, the DIR command does not recognize the switch a:h and trying to copy anything that might be hidden is impossible at the moment.
What would really do it is some program that I could run from floppy that would walk through the ROM and copy it's entire contents out to floppy. Is there such an animal?
Please review the photos linked at the beginning of this email and see if you can tell exactly what model it is.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 11/28/2015 8:58 PM, Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
Hello there, Asa Jay and welcome to the group! :) The model type of your Grid units will be on the bottom of the unit. It also could be on the back, but most are on the bottom. It should be an 1520 or 1184 or 1180 or something like that. From your description, it sounds like you have a 1520 without a hard drive. It is possible that there is a hard drive, but it has died and it is not responding. I am not familiar with the radio control program. I do not know why the program is looking for the ROM when it is run. I think here is a DOS command to redirect the a drive to another drive letter. It's odd that 1.44 floppies don't work in the 720K drive. My 1520's will read both. You might try pressing the 'f' key during boot to see if you can get the Grid to boot from floppy. If it does boot, the the MS-DOS 5 installer will probably be looking a hard drive to install to. But, it would test if the drive can read 1.44 floppies. Good luck and please tell us your results, -Shawn
From: "asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2015 7:42 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Is there a way to get software out of the ROM?
Brand new member here.
I have a few GRiDcase units, but not exactly sure of the models.
The one I'm currently concerned with has a 720K floppy, a parallel port, two serial ports and an IEEE port. The unit appears to operate fine; however, it has a radio control program built-in to the ROM (boots directly to it) and I would very much like to get it off the GRiD and working on another computer (non-GRiD) in a DOS window. I've managed to get most files copied off the ROM; those I can "see" at the prompt. But when I go to run the application in a DOS window on another machine, I get an error that it can't access the ROM drive though parts of the application do run.
I think there are some other files hidden from view and unfortunately ATTRIB is not included in the DOS utilities already on the system. Either that or the application is hard-coded to look at a specific part of the ROM, I don't know for certain. I also do not have a c opy of GRiD DOS 3.2.
I do have a copy of GRiD DOS 5.0 on three 1.4M floppies but they don't work in the 720K drive.
So is there a way for me to get more off this machine? It's running DOS 3.2 according to the decal on the ROM chip above the keyboard.
I can probably supply photos if it would help.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7227 / Virus Database: 4477/11083 - Release Date: 11/28/15
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 09:55:57 +0000
From: David Walton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Is there a way to get software out of the ROM?
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi, It's a gridcase Tempest model 1307. I have one. Sorry but I unable to help you further with your queries. Where did you get it from? Do you have the user manual for it, as I could scan for others to use if you are willing to post it.
Regards
David Walton
On 30 Nov 2015, at 05:25, "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> Thank you for the warm welcome. :)
> I can't find any model numbers on this unit at all. Please check out the photos here:
> http://asajay.com/TSC-60/V9GRiD/
>
> I've not opened the case to see if it has a hard drive, but I doubt that it does. I've worked with those that have hard drives and this one seems to be an earlier model. I could still be wrong though but might have to take it apart to know for certain.
>
> Since all the files appear on A: even when a floppy is not installed, I doubt there is a hard drive. When a floppy is inserted, the files on the floppy will appear on the same A: in addition to those not on the floppy.
>
> Example:
> Without floppy installed, a DIR listing will show (note this is not a complete listing)
> command.com
> autoexec.bat
>
> Install the floppy with two programs and now the A: listing will show
> command.com
> autoexec.bat
> program1.exe (from floppy)
> program2.exe (from floppy)
>
> So that's a bit weird but okay.
> To copy those files from A: to a floppy, I use copy A: B: and the system expects me to swap floppies, which works, I just insert the B: floppy when it wants it and don't insert one when it wants A:
>
> This is an ex-military model used with an old HF radio facility. The radio control program is in ROM. The laptop boots straight into the app via the autoexec.bat file. The only way I can interrupt it is by constantly pressing Ctrl+C while the autoexec is running and before it starts the program. Normally, a person with this problem would simply want to get a ROM set with a standard OS and typical applications. However, in my case, I'd like to get the radio control program OFF the ROM in order to work with it on a modern computer. The software still controls the radios quite well but I'd like to get it working on a modern computer in order to do some additional things with it.
>
> An early 720K floppy drive will ONLY read 1.4M floppies formatted to "look" like 720K floppies. The GRiD DOS 5.0 disks are formatted as 1.4M and they read just fine in my desktop but NOT on the GRiD. If I put that floppy into the drive, the laptop attempts to boot to it, but it can't find any files on it, so I have to remove the floppy and do a Ctrl+Alt+Delete. Interesting enough, I'm using 1.4M floppies (formatted as 720K) to transfer files and I have to tape over the extra hole in the floppy in order to get my desktop to read them as a 720K floppy, though on the GRiD it doesn't care about the extra hole.
>
> In short, it all works fine and as-designed. I would simply like to get -everything- off the ROM, but can't "see" everything that's on it. Perhaps if I could get the entire suite of DOS 3.2 files I could use the ATTRIB command to view whatever is hidden. Unfortunately, the DIR command does not recognize the switch a:h and trying to copy anything that might be hidden is impossible at the moment.
>
> What would really do it is some program that I could run from floppy that would walk through the ROM and copy it's entire contents out to floppy. Is there such an animal?
>
> Please review the photos linked at the beginning of this email and see if you can tell exactly what model it is.
>
> Thank you,
> Asa Jay
>
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> On 11/28/2015 8:58 PM, Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello there, Asa Jay and welcome to the group! :)
>> The model type of your Grid units will be on the bottom of the unit. It also could be on the back, but most are on the bottom. It should be an 1520 or 1184 or 1180 or something like that. From your description, it sounds like you have a 1520 without a hard drive. It is possible that there is a hard drive, but it has died and it is not responding.
>> I am not familiar with the radio control program. I do not know why the program is looking for the ROM when it is run. I think here is a DOS command to redirect the a drive to another drive letter. It's odd that 1.44 floppies don't work in the 720K drive. My 1520's will read both.
>> You might try pressing the 'f' key during boot to see if you can get the Grid to boot from floppy. If it does boot, the the MS-DOS 5 installer will probably be looking a hard drive to install to. But, it would test if the drive can read 1.44 floppies.
>> Good luck and please tell us your results,
>> -Shawn
>>
>>
>> From: "asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
>> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2015 7:42 PM
>> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Is there a way to get software out of the ROM?
>>
>>
>>
>> Brand new member here.
>>
>> I have a few GRiDcase units, but not exactly sure of the models.
>>
>> The one I'm currently concerned with has a 720K floppy, a parallel port, two serial ports and an IEEE port. The unit appears to operate fine; however, it has a radio control program built-in to the ROM (boots directly to it) and I would very much like to get it off the GRiD and working on another computer (non-GRiD) in a DOS window. I've managed to get most files copied off the ROM; those I can "see" at the prompt. But when I go to run the application in a DOS window on another machine, I get an error that it can't access the ROM drive though parts of the application do run.
>>
>> I think there are some other files hidden from view and unfortunately ATTRIB is not included in the DOS utilities already on the system. Either that or the application is hard-coded to look at a specific part of the ROM, I don't know for certain. I also do not have a c opy of GRiD DOS 3.2.
>>
>> I do have a copy of GRiD DOS 5.0 on three 1.4M floppies but they don't work in the 720K drive.
>>
>> So is there a way for me to get more off this machine? It's running DOS 3.2 according to the decal on the ROM chip above the keyboard.
>>
>> I can probably supply photos if it would help.
>> Thank you,
>> Asa Jay
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2016.0.7227 / Virus Database: 4477/11083 - Release Date: 11/28/15
>>
>
>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 06:36:08 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Is there a way to get software out of the ROM?
And I'm sorry, but it is NOT for sale. At least not yet.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 11/30/2015 1:55 AM, David Walton walton.david@...
[RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
On 30 Nov 2015, at 05:25, "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@...
[RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
I can't find any model numbers on this unit at all.
Please check out the photos here:
http://asajay.com/TSC-60/V9GRiD/
I've not opened the case to see if it has a hard
drive, but I doubt that it does. I've worked with
those that have hard drives and this one seems to be
an earlier model. I could still be wrong though but
might have to take it apart to know for certain.
Since all the files appear on A: even when a floppy
is not installed, I doubt there is a hard drive.
When a floppy is inserted, the files on the floppy
will appear on the same A: in addition to those not
on the floppy.
Example:
Without floppy installed, a DIR listing will show
(note this is not a complete listing)
command.com
autoexec.bat
Install the floppy with two programs and now the A:
listing will show
command.com
autoexec.bat
program1.exe (from floppy)
program2.exe (from floppy)
So that's a bit weird but okay.
To copy those files from A: to a floppy, I use copy
A: B: and the system expects me to swap floppies,
which works, I just insert the B: floppy when it
wants it and don't insert one when it wants A:
This is an ex-military model used with an old HF
radio facility. The radio control program is in
ROM. The laptop boots straight into the app via the
autoexec.bat file. The only way I can interrupt it
is by constantly pressing Ctrl+C while the autoexec
is running and before it starts the program.
Normally, a person with this problem would simply
want to get a ROM set with a standard OS and typical
applications. However, in my case, I'd like to get
the radio control program OFF the ROM in order to
work with it on a modern computer. The software
still controls the radios quite well but I'd like to
get it working on a modern computer in order to do
some additional things with it.
An early 720K floppy drive will ONLY read 1.4M
floppies formatted to "look" like 720K floppies.
The GRiD DOS 5.0 disks are formatted as 1.4M and
they read just fine in my desktop but NOT on the
GRiD. If I put that floppy into the drive, the
laptop attempts to boot to it, but it can't find any
files on it, so I have to remove the floppy and do a
Ctrl+Alt+Delete. Interesting enough, I'm using 1.4M
floppies (formatted as 720K) to transfer files and I
have to tape over the extra hole in the floppy in
order to get my desktop to read them as a 720K
floppy, though on the GRiD it doesn't care about the
extra hole.
In short, it all works fine and as-designed. I
would simply like to get -everything- off the ROM,
but can't "see" everything that's on it. Perhaps if
I could get the entire suite of DOS 3.2 files I
could use the ATTRIB command to view whatever is
hidden. Unfortunately, the DIR command does not
recognize the switch a:h and trying to copy anything
that might be hidden is impossible at the moment.
What would really do it is some program that I could
run from floppy that would walk through the ROM and
copy it's entire contents out to floppy. Is there
such an animal?
Please review the photos linked at the beginning of
this email and see if you can tell exactly what
model it is.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 11/28/2015 8:58 PM, Shawnerz shawnerz@...
[RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
From:
"asajay@...
[RuGRiD-Laptop]"
To:
RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Saturday, November 28, 2015 7:42 PM
Subject:
[RuGRiD-Laptop] Is there a way to get
software out of the ROM?
Brand new member here.
I have a few GRiDcase units, but not
exactly sure of the models.
The one I'm currently concerned with
has a 720K floppy, a parallel port,
two serial ports and an IEEE port.
The unit appears to operate fine;
however, it has a radio control
program built-in to the ROM (boots
directly to it) and I would very much
like to get it off the GRiD and
working on another computer (non-GRiD)
in a DOS window. I've managed to get
most files copied off the ROM; those I
can "see" at the prompt. But when I
go to run the application in a DOS
window on another machine, I get an
error that it can't access the ROM
drive though parts of the application
do run.
I think there are some other files
hidden from view and unfortunately
ATTRIB is not included in the DOS
utilities already on the system.
Either that or the application is
hard-coded to look at a specific part
of the ROM, I don't know for certain.
I also do not have a c opy of GRiD DOS
3.2.
I do have a copy of GRiD DOS 5.0 on
three 1.4M floppies but they don't
work in the 720K drive.
So is there a way for me to get more
off this machine? It's running DOS
3.2 according to the decal on the ROM
chip above the keyboard.
I can probably supply photos if it
would help.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7227 / Virus Database: 4477/11083
- Release Date: 11/28/15
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7227 / Virus Database: 4477/11091 - Release
Date: 11/29/15
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 16:52:46 +0000 (UTC)
From: =?UTF-8?B?0K7RgNC40Lkg0JvQtdGB0LrQvtCy0LXRhg==?=
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=9E=D1=82=D0=B2:_[RuGRiD-Laptop]_Is_there_a_w?= =?UTF-8?Q?ay_to_get_software_out_of_the_ROM=3F?=
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
There is an opportunity for an exchange, I sent to you on your mail.
Yuri
понедельник, 30 ноября 2015 19:36 "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@asajay.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> писал(а):
Thank you. I don't have a specific manual for it. I do have the military Technical Order that explains it's use with the radios it is supposed to control; it goes through the various screens of the radio control application and what they do. It was obtained as surplus equipment.
And I'm sorry, but it is NOT for sale. At least not yet.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 11/30/2015 1:55 AM, David Walton walton.david@sky.com [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
Hi, It's a gridcase Tempest model 1307. I have one. Sorry but I unable to help you further with your queries. Where did you get it from? Do you have the user manual for it, as I could scan for others to use if you are willing to post it.
Regards
David Walton
On 30 Nov 2015, at 05:25, "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@asajay.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Thank you for the warm welcome. :)
I can't find any model numbers on this unit at all. Please check out the photos here:
http://asajay.com/TSC-60/V9GRiD/
I've not opened the case to see if it has a hard drive, but I doubt that it does. I've worked with those that have hard drives and this one seems to be an earlier model. I could still be wrong though but might have to take it apart to know for certain.
Since all the files appear on A: even when a floppy is not installed, I doubt there is a hard drive. When a floppy is inserted, the files on the floppy will appear on the same A: in addition to those not on the floppy.
Example:
Without floppy installed, a DIR listing will show (note this is not a complete listing)
command.com
autoexec.bat
Install the floppy with two programs and now the A: listing will show
command.com
autoexec.bat
program1.exe (from floppy)
program2.exe (from floppy)
So that's a bit weird but okay.
To copy those files from A: to a floppy, I use copy A: B: and the system expects me to swap floppies, which works, I just insert the B: floppy when it wants it and don't insert one when it wants A:
This is an ex-military model used with an old HF radio facility. The radio control program is in ROM. The laptop boots straight into the app via the autoexec.bat file. The only way I can interrupt it is by constantly pressing Ctrl+C while the autoexec is running and before it starts the program. Normally, a person with this problem would simply want to get a ROM set with a standard OS and typical applications. However, in my case, I'd like to get the radio control program OFF the ROM in order to work with it on a modern computer. The software still controls the radios quite well but I'd like to get it working on a modern computer in order to do some additional things with it.
An early 720K floppy drive will ONLY read 1.4M floppies formatted to "look" like 720K floppies. The GRiD DOS 5.0 disks are formatted as 1.4M and they read just fine in my desktop but NOT on the GRiD. If I put that floppy into the drive, the laptop attempts to boot to it, but it can't find any files on it, so I have to remove the floppy and do a Ctrl+Alt+Delete. Interesting enough, I'm using 1.4M floppies (formatted as 720K) to transfer files and I have to tape over the extra hole in the floppy in order to get my desktop to read them as a 720K floppy, though on the GRiD it doesn't care about the extra hole.
In short, it all works fine and as-designed. I would simply like to get -everything- off the ROM, but can't "see" everything that's on it. Perhaps if I could get the entire suite of DOS 3.2 files I could use the ATTRIB command to view whatever is hidden. Unfortunately, the DIR command does not recognize the switch a:h and trying to copy anything that might be hidden is impossible at the moment.
What would really do it is some program that I could run from floppy that would walk through the ROM and copy it's entire contents out to floppy. Is there such an animal?
Please review the photos linked at the beginning of this email and see if you can tell exactly what model it is.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 11/28/2015 8:58 PM, Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
Hello there, Asa Jay and welcome to the group! :) The model type of your Grid units will be on the bottom of the unit. It also could be on the back, but most are on the bottom. It should be an 1520 or 1184 or 1180 or something like that. From your description, it sounds like you have a 1520 without a hard drive. It is possible that there is a hard drive, but it has died and it is not responding. I am not familiar with the radio control program. I do not know why the program is looking for the ROM when it is run. I think here is a DOS command to redirect the a drive to another drive letter. It's odd that 1.44 floppies don't work in the 720K drive. My 1520's will read both. You might try pressing the 'f' key during boot to see if you can get the Grid to boot from floppy. If it does boot, the the MS-DOS 5 installer will probably be looking a hard drive to install to. But, it would test if the drive can read 1.44 floppies. Good luck and please tell us your results, -Shawn
From: "asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2015 7:42 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Is there a way to get software out of the ROM?
Brand new member here.
I have a few GRiDcase units, but not exactly sure of the models.
The one I'm currently concerned with has a 720K floppy, a parallel port, two serial ports and an IEEE port. The unit appears to operate fine; however, it has a radio control program built-in to the ROM (boots directly to it) and I would very much like to get it off the GRiD and working on another computer (non-GRiD) in a DOS window. I've managed to get most files copied off the ROM; those I can "see" at the prompt. But when I go to run the application in a DOS window on another machine, I get an error that it can't access the ROM drive though parts of the application do run.
I think there are some other files hidden from view and unfortunately ATTRIB is not included in the DOS utilities already on the system. Either that or the application is hard-coded to look at a specific part of the ROM, I don't know for certain. I also do not have a c opy of GRiD DOS 3.2.
I do have a copy of GRiD DOS 5.0 on three 1.4M floppies but they don't work in the 720K drive.
So is there a way for me to get more off this machine? It's running DOS 3.2 according to the decal on the ROM chip above the keyboard.
I can probably supply photos if it would help.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7227 / Virus Database: 4477/11083 - Release Date: 11/28/15
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7227 / Virus Database: 4477/11091 - Release Date: 11/29/15
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Date: 01 Dec 2015 19:22:29 -0800
From: wd8cyv@...
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=D0=9E=D1=82=D0=B2=3A_=5BRuGRiD-Laptop=5D_Is_there_a_?= =?UTF-8?Q?w_ay_to_get_software_out_of_the_ROM=3F?=
text/plain; charset=utf-8
i have a version of dos 6.0 and 6.22 that have been edited and combined with all the good stuff still in it and all the stuff that causes problems removed
will try to find the super tools disk i save it all to ..if it will help
this looks like my 1520 but sounds a bit weird
dave wd8cyv (at) Y DOOT COM
once its built it will run from a flopy
and has a file manager simular to later windows programs
its image files that build disks to do an install
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2015 20:55:09 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?B?0J7RgtCyOiBbUnVHUmlELUxhcHRvcF0gSXMgdGhlcmUgYSB3IGE=?= =?UTF-8?B?eSB0byBnZXQgc29mdHdhcmUgb3V0IG9mIHRoZSBST00/?=
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 12/1/2015 7:22 PM, wd8cyv@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7227 / Virus Database: 4477/11099 - Release
Date: 12/01/15
Date: 17 Dec 2015 06:59:56 -0800
From: yodazworld@...
Subject: Re: Gridcase 3 - ROMs and software
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hello and thanks for the welcome!
I've downloaded the gridcase3.rar archive shared by klyball (thanks!) and need help from you guys.
It's really fun and exciting working with this machine, but I guess I'm doing something wrong.
Here's what I've tried:
- format a floppy using MSDOS FAT
- extract gridcase3, copy GRIDOS, GRIDMASTER to the floppy
- use some tape to set the floppy as 720k
- boot the GRiDCase 3, holding F to boot on floppy
On boot I see:
Phoenix ROM BIOS Vers 2.03, 10/03/86
Floppy Disk Boot Failure
(the message is repeated repeats itself until shutdown)
On the laptop itself, it's a GRiDCASE3, came with a floppy drive, and a floppy disk. There are no ROM chips at all above the keyboard.
The floppy reads
GRiD
-Travel diskette only-
Do not use for data
Install for travel only
I want to make an image of the floppy for you guys but it doesn't mount (OSX).
Any tips?
Cheers,
Guillaume
Date: 20 Dec 2015 09:03:01 -0800
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: Gridcase 3 - ROMs and software
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi, Those files are Rom images and won't work on a floppy, they need to be burned to a rom and installed in the gridcase 3, i'll see if i have a bootable image for gridOS for the 3
GridOS is its own operating system and is not compatable with Dos the disk system is different there are a couple of utilities to move files between the two operating systems
interGrid in the file section is a GridOs like system that runs on top of dos , but am not sure if it will run on the 3, put Grid.exe on a dos floppy and the programs folder on it also and try and run it, the spoc program in the files section is also a Gridos version written to run on top of dos. the orginal spoc software is gridOS only
Grant
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 21:55:17 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: RS-232 serial port
I've pretty much succeeded in getting the program off the GRiD
laptop I have and being able to run it from floppy drive on another
computer. I'd like to thank Dave, WD8CYV for sending me his tools
disk. I'm still working out some details behind it working 100%
because the laptop must be -boot- to the floppy, apparently there is
some hard coding looking for specific files on the Boot drive and it
wanting the Boot drive to be A.
Anyway, the question I have for you today is this:
Is there anything special about the RS-232 serial port on the back
(the standard one, not the funky one)? Is it a standard serial port
or does it have some special signaling capabilities that a like-port
on another laptop wouldn't have?
I get that it might be TEMPEST but that shouldn't affect standard
serial signaling. This becomes important because if it's not
standard RS-232, then the program might not work on another laptop
with a standard RS-232 port and another intermediate box might have
to be built to do the proper signaling.
I'm guessing it's standard, but the question came up from a friend
so I need to ask.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 01:28:55 -0800
From: Jim Stephens
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 1/6/2016 9:55 PM, Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]
wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
> I've pretty much succeeded in getting the program off the GRiD laptop
> I have and being able to run it from floppy drive on another
> computer. I'd like to thank Dave, WD8CYV for sending me his tools
> disk. I'm still working out some details behind it working 100%
> because the laptop must be -boot- to the floppy, apparently there is
> some hard coding looking for specific files on the Boot drive and it
> wanting the Boot drive to be A.
>
> Anyway, the question I have for you today is this:
>
> Is there anything special about the RS-232 serial port on the back
> (the standard one, not the funky one)? Is it a standard serial port
> or does it have some special signaling capabilities that a like-port
> on another laptop wouldn't have?
>
> I get that it might be TEMPEST but that shouldn't affect standard
> serial signaling. This becomes important because if it's not standard
> RS-232, then the program might not work on another laptop with a
> standard RS-232 port and another intermediate box might have to be
> built to do the proper signaling.
>
> I'm guessing it's standard, but the question came up from a friend so
> I need to ask.
> Thank you,
> Asa Jay
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>
If you have binary editing skills, look for the address of the port in
the code you recovered. It is 0x03f8. Look for 0xf803 which will be
intel order in the instructions. What I've done is dump the whole
program image as binary into memory (rename the .com or .exe to .bin)
and bring it in with debug command.
Then go to the offset of the 0xf803 and disassemble around it. If you
see an OB or IB instruction soon after you will know for sure.
This only suggests that the serial port is at the usual hardware address.
is it possible that the port is accessed thru the MSDOS COM1 port? That
is worth considering too, as that will abstract the serial I/O so you
don't have to worry about the physical port address.
thanks
Jim
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2016 06:35:57 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
Interesting thoughts. I would think it's addressing the com port as
com1 but it might be nice to validate that. I think your
instructions are clear enough I can try this. I do have a binary
editor called UltraEdit32 I'll take a look at as well as another
binary decompiler. This may work, I'll have a look. :)
Still unanswered, is there anything special "electrically" about the
RS-232 serial port?
Asa Jay
On 1/7/2016 1:28 AM, Jim Stephens jws@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]
wrote:
Then go to the offset of the 0xf803 and disassemble around
it. If you see an OB or IB instruction soon after you will
know for sure.
This only suggests that the serial port is at the usual
hardware address.
is it possible that the port is accessed thru the MSDOS COM1
port? That is worth considering too, as that will abstract
the serial I/O so you don't have to worry about the physical
port address.
thanks
Jim
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 17:13:13 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
As far as I know, its a standard serial port.However, the internal modem (if installed) uses a COM port. You can define which COM port the modem will use in the conf15X0.exe program.
The "funky one" I think you're referring to is the 25 pin D-SUB with a plastic pin in one of the pins. If that is the port you're talking about, that is a port for an external floppy drive.I hope that helps,-Shawn
From: "Jim Stephens jws@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2016 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
#yiv2967750279 #yiv2967750279 -- #yiv2967750279 .yiv2967750279ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279photo-title a, #yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279photo-title a:active, #yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279photo-title a:hover, #yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279attach-table div.yiv2967750279attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279attach-table div.yiv2967750279attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv2967750279 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279attach-table div.yiv2967750279attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279attach-table div.yiv2967750279attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv2967750279 #yiv2967750279
On 1/6/2016 9:55 PM, Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
#yiv2967750279 #yiv2967750279 -- #yiv2967750279 .yiv2967750279ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279photo-title a, #yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279photo-title a:active, #yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279photo-title a:hover, #yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279attach-table div.yiv2967750279attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279attach-table div.yiv2967750279attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv2967750279 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279attach-table div.yiv2967750279attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279attach-table div.yiv2967750279attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv2967750279 div.yiv2967750279ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv2967750279 #yiv2967750279
Hi all,
I've pretty much succeeded in getting the program off the GRiD laptop I have and being able to run it from floppy drive on another computer. I'd like to thank Dave, WD8CYV for sending me his tools disk. I'm still working out some details behind it working 100% because the laptop must be -boot- to the floppy, apparently there is some hard coding looking for specific files on the Boot drive and it wanting the Boot drive to be A.
Anyway, the question I have for you today is this:
Is there anything special about the RS-232 serial port on the back (the standard one, not the funky one)? Is it a standard serial port or does it have some special signaling capabilities that a like-port on another laptop wouldn't have?
I get that it might be TEMPEST but that shouldn't affect standard serial signaling. This becomes important because if it's not standard RS-232, then the program might not work on another laptop with a standard RS-232 port and another intermediate box might have to be built to do the proper signaling.
I'm guessing it's standard, but the question came up from a friend so I need to ask.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
If you have binary editing skills, look for the address of the port in the code you recovered. It is 0x03f8. Look for 0xf803 which will be intel order in the instructions. What I've done is dump the whole program image as binary into memory (rename the .com or .exe to .bin) and bring it in with debug command.
Then go to the offset of the 0xf803 and disassemble around it. If you see an OB or IB instruction soon after you will know for sure.
This only suggests that the serial port is at the usual hardware address.
is it possible that the port is accessed thru the MSDOS COM1 port? That is worth considering too, as that will abstract the serial I/O so you don't have to worry about the physical port address.
thanks
Jim
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2016 20:54:07 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
http://asajay.com/TSC-60/V9GRiD/GRiD_Port_ID.JPG
Port 3 (upper left) is the parallel port
Port 4 (upper right) is the RS-232 serial port the computer uses to
talk to the radios
Port 5 (lower left) GPIB and not used in my case
Port 6 (lower right) is the "funky" RS-232/RS-422 serial (19-pin)
which I have no idea what might be used for.
I've heard there might be some "special" electronics built around
this port that might make the port "non-standard." From what I've
been able to research so far and with some opinions for those here,
I believe there isn't anything special about it and should act just
like a normal serial port.
And here is the port Shawn spoke of, on the side of the unit:,
though I honestly don't know what it's for. If Shawn is correct,
and it makes sense especially with a plugged pin in order not to mix
it up with a port on the back, it's probably for an additional
external floppy port.
http://asajay.com/TSC-60/V9GRiD/GRiD_Right.JPG
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 1/7/2016 9:13 AM, Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]
wrote:
From:
"Jim Stephens jws@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
To:
RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Thursday, January 7, 2016 4:28 AM
Subject:
Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
I've pretty much succeeded in getting the
program off the GRiD laptop I have and being
able to run it from floppy drive on another
computer. I'd like to thank Dave, WD8CYV for
sending me his tools disk. I'm still working
out some details behind it working 100%
because the laptop must be -boot- to the
floppy, apparently there is some hard coding
looking for specific files on the Boot drive
and it wanting the Boot drive to be A.
Anyway, the question I have for you today is
this:
Is there anything special about the RS-232
serial port on the back (the standard one, not
the funky one)? Is it a standard serial port
or does it have some special signaling
capabilities that a like-port on another
laptop wouldn't have?
I get that it might be TEMPEST but that
shouldn't affect standard serial signaling.
This becomes important because if it's not
standard RS-232, then the program might not
work on another laptop with a standard RS-232
port and another intermediate box might have
to be built to do the proper signaling.
I'm guessing it's standard, but the question
came up from a friend so I need to ask.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
If you have binary editing skills, look for
the address of the port in the code you
recovered. It is 0x03f8. Look for 0xf803
which will be intel order in the
instructions. What I've done is dump the
whole program image as binary into memory
(rename the .com or .exe to .bin) and bring it
in with debug command.
Then go to the offset of the 0xf803 and
disassemble around it. If you see an OB or IB
instruction soon after you will know for sure.
This only suggests that the serial port is at
the usual hardware address.
is it possible that the port is accessed thru
the MSDOS COM1 port? That is worth
considering too, as that will abstract the
serial I/O so you don't have to worry about
the physical port address.
thanks
Jim
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4492/11351 - Release
Date: 01/08/16
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2016 21:33:25 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
Asa
On 1/7/2016 8:54 PM, Asa Jay Laughton asajay@...
[RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
http://asajay.com/TSC-60/V9GRiD/GRiD_Port_ID.JPG
Port 3 (upper left) is the parallel port
Port 4 (upper right) is the RS-232 serial port the
computer uses to talk to the radios
Port 5 (lower left) GPIB and not used in my case
Port 6 (lower right) is the "funky" RS-232/RS-422 serial
(19-pin) which I have no idea what might be used for.
I've heard there might be some "special" electronics built
around this port that might make the port "non-standard."
From what I've been able to research so far and with some
opinions for those here, I believe there isn't anything
special about it and should act just like a normal serial
port.
And here is the port Shawn spoke of, on the side of the
unit:, though I honestly don't know what it's for. If
Shawn is correct, and it makes sense especially with a
plugged pin in order not to mix it up with a port on the
back, it's probably for an additional external floppy
port.
http://asajay.com/TSC-60/V9GRiD/GRiD_Right.JPG
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 1/7/2016 9:13 AM, Shawnerz shawnerz@...
[RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
From:
"Jim Stephens jws@...
[RuGRiD-Laptop]"
To:
RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Thursday, January 7, 2016 4:28 AM
Subject:
Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
I've pretty much succeeded in getting the
program off the GRiD laptop I have and
being able to run it from floppy drive on
another computer. I'd like to thank Dave,
WD8CYV for sending me his tools disk. I'm
still working out some details behind it
working 100% because the laptop must be
-boot- to the floppy, apparently there is
some hard coding looking for specific
files on the Boot drive and it wanting the
Boot drive to be A.
Anyway, the question I have for you today
is this:
Is there anything special about the RS-232
serial port on the back (the standard one,
not the funky one)? Is it a standard
serial port or does it have some special
signaling capabilities that a like-port on
another laptop wouldn't have?
I get that it might be TEMPEST but that
shouldn't affect standard serial
signaling. This becomes important because
if it's not standard RS-232, then the
program might not work on another laptop
with a standard RS-232 port and another
intermediate box might have to be built to
do the proper signaling.
I'm guessing it's standard, but the
question came up from a friend so I need
to ask.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
If you have binary editing skills, look
for the address of the port in the code
you recovered. It is 0x03f8. Look for
0xf803 which will be intel order in the
instructions. What I've done is dump the
whole program image as binary into memory
(rename the .com or .exe to .bin) and
bring it in with debug command.
Then go to the offset of the 0xf803 and
disassemble around it. If you see an OB
or IB instruction soon after you will know
for sure.
This only suggests that the serial port is
at the usual hardware address.
is it possible that the port is accessed
thru the MSDOS COM1 port? That is worth
considering too, as that will abstract the
serial I/O so you don't have to worry
about the physical port address.
thanks
Jim
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4492/11351 -
Release Date: 01/08/16
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4492/11351 - Release
Date: 01/08/16
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 06:03:27 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I am not aware of any non-standard RS-232 interface on the Grid. I see it is RS-232C. If i remember correctly, RS-232C has 0/5V transitions, where RS-232 has -12/+12V transitions.I'm no expert and I could be wrong.Good luck.-ShawnP.S. The 19 pin connector has me curious. I assume that was some proprietary RS-422 connection. Very interesting.
From: "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2016 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
#yiv7461387808 #yiv7461387808 -- #yiv7461387808 .yiv7461387808ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv7461387808 div.yiv7461387808ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv7461387808 div.yiv7461387808photo-title a, #yiv7461387808 div.yiv7461387808photo-title a:active, #yiv7461387808 div.yiv7461387808photo-title a:hover, #yiv7461387808 div.yiv7461387808photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv7461387808 div.yiv7461387808attach-table div.yiv7461387808attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv7461387808 div.yiv7461387808attach-table div.yiv7461387808attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv7461387808 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv7461387808 div.yiv7461387808ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv7461387808 div.yiv7461387808attach-table div.yiv7461387808attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv7461387808 div.yiv7461387808attach-table div.yiv7461387808attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv7461387808 div.yiv7461387808ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv7461387808 #yiv7461387808
.. and I did it -again-. The Port I want to talk about is number 4 (not 6).
Asa
On 1/7/2016 8:54 PM, Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
My apologies, I should have done this in my first post. Please refer to the following photo:
http://asajay.com/TSC-60/V9GRiD/GRiD_Port_ID.JPG
Port 3 (upper left) is the parallel port
Port 4 (upper right) is the RS-232 serial port the computer uses to talk to the radios
Port 5 (lower left) GPIB and not used in my case
Port 6 (lower right) is the "funky" RS-232/RS-422 serial (19-pin) which I have no idea what might be used for.
I've heard there might be some "special" electronics built around this port that might make the port "non-standard." From what I've been able to research so far and with some opinions for those here, I believe there isn't anything special about it and should act just like a normal serial port.
And here is the port Shawn spoke of, on the side of the unit:, though I honestly don't know what it's for. If Shawn is correct, and it makes sense especially with a plugged pin in order not to mix it up with a port on the back, it's probably for an additional external floppy port.
http://asajay.com/TSC-60/V9GRiD/GRiD_Right.JPG
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 1/7/2016 9:13 AM, Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
As far as I know, its a standard serial port. However, the internal modem (if installed) uses a COM port. You can define which COM port the modem will use in the conf15X0.exe program.
The "funky one" I think you're referring to is the 25 pin D-SUB with a plastic pin in one of the pins. If that is the port you're talking about, that is a port for an external floppy drive. I hope that helps, -Shawn
From: "Jim Stephens jws@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2016 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
On 1/6/2016 9:55 PM, Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
Hi all,
I've pretty much succeeded in getting the program off the GRiD laptop I have and being able to run it from floppy drive on another computer. I'd like to thank Dave, WD8CYV for sending me his tools disk. I'm still working out some details behind it working 100% because the laptop must be -boot- to the floppy, apparently there is some hard coding looking for specific files on the Boot drive and it wanting the Boot drive to be A.
Anyway, the question I have for you today is this:
Is there anything special about the RS-232 serial port on the back (the standard one, not the funky one)? Is it a standard serial port or does it have some special signaling capabilities that a like-port on another laptop wouldn't have?
I get that it might be TEMPEST but that shouldn't affect standard serial signaling. This becomes important because if it's not standard RS-232, then the program might not work on another laptop with a standard RS-232 port and another intermediate box might have to be built to do the proper signaling.
I'm guessing it's standard, but the question came up from a friend so I need to ask.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
If you have binary editing skills, look for the address of the port in the code you recovered. It is 0x03f8. Look for 0xf803 which will be intel order in the instructions. What I've done is dump the whole program image as binary into memory (rename the .com or .exe to .bin) and bring it in with debug command.
Then go to the offset of the 0xf803 and disassemble around it. If you see an OB or IB instruction soon after you will know for sure.
This only suggests that the serial port is at the usual hardware address.
is it possible that the port is accessed thru the MSDOS COM1 port? That is worth considering too, as that will abstract the serial I/O so you don't have to worry about the physical port address.
thanks
Jim
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4492/11351 - Release Date: 01/08/16 No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4492/11351 - Release Date: 01/08/16
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 23:01:57 -0800
From: Jim Stephens
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
I have a printed version of the RS-232-C Standard, and I'm not aware of
an RS-232 standard.
The google for "rs-232c vs. rs-232" immediately turned up a Honeywell
web page saying what you said. If this had not been proprietary, I
suspect there would not be so much "information" out there about it.
I looked at a bunch of references and they all have things that are at
variance with what I recall. I've not seen an electrical spec with an
official 0-5 volt inteface, and anything that comes out to a connector
better have a negative electrical transition, if they want to work.
TI voltage shift parts actually do handle 0-5, but the TI SN75154 for
example can be set up to operate above ground 0-5.
The Grid receiver may be a 1488 as well, and they do require a zero
transition. Since you have to assume that these will be out there, you
better handle at in your design.
TI receiver chip SN75154
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn75154.pdf
TI receiver chip DS1489
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ds1489.pdf
If you can find a photo, or have one skinned, perhaps someone can look.
thanks
Jim
On 1/7/2016 10:03 PM, Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
> I see it is RS-232C. If i remember correctly, RS-232C has 0/5V
> transitions, where RS-232 has -12/+12V transitions.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 14:14:57 +0100
From: Andrea Michele Cane
Subject: Gridare 1530 ram expansion
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi,
I'm still trying expand the memory of my gridcase 1530 to the actual
2mbyte 8x 256k to 8 mbyte.My last attempt to adapt simm memory module to
sipp failed probably because I used different module speed. After post the
memory check Washington ok buttare After few minuts sistema hang. Could
you remember the schematics for upgrading the memory. I don't remember the
order of the slot for fitting the memory in order of two. Sipp/simm have a
8 bit data bus so for 8 mb i have to fit 8 1mb ram module. It's right? I' m
looking to adapt a so- dimm 72 pin 8 mbyte fpm ram to the slot soldering
each data and adress bus to the slot. Andrea
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 06:49:39 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
The RS-232 Standard has gone through several revisions through the
years. In the original RS-232, the signal would flip between
positive and negative 25 volts. There were then three revisions,
RS-232A, RS-232B, and RS-232C, which lowered the acceptable voltage
from 25 to 12 to 5 volts. In 1969, the Electronic Industries
Association Standards Committee adopted RS-232C, as a standard for
computer manufacturers. Because this adoption date was so long ago,
most manufacturers, including National Instruments, have dropped the
"C" from the name and simply refer to the protocol as RS-232. In
common, modern usage, there is no difference
between RS-232 and RS-232C, protocol.
from here:
http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/1C8F13D0806056F886256FAC00649176
If the final statement is correct, then there shouldn't be any
difference between the RS-232C signaling from the GRiD and that on
any other modern laptop that still has a serial port.
Thanks all for the help, :)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 1/7/2016 11:01 PM, Jim Stephens jws@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]
wrote:
an RS-232 standard.
The google for "rs-232c vs. rs-232" immediately turned up
a Honeywell
web page saying what you said. If this had not been
proprietary, I
suspect there would not be so much "information" out there
about it.
I looked at a bunch of references and they all have things
that are at
variance with what I recall. I've not seen an electrical
spec with an
official 0-5 volt inteface, and anything that comes out to
a connector
better have a negative electrical transition, if they want
to work.
TI voltage shift parts actually do handle 0-5, but the TI
SN75154 for
example can be set up to operate above ground 0-5.
The Grid receiver may be a 1488 as well, and they do
require a zero
transition. Since you have to assume that these will be
out there, you
better handle at in your design.
TI receiver chip SN75154
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn75154.pdf
TI receiver chip DS1489
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ds1489.pdf
If you can find a photo, or have one skinned, perhaps
someone can look.
thanks
Jim
On 1/7/2016 10:03 PM, Shawnerz shawnerz@...
[RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
> I see it is RS-232C. If i remember correctly, RS-232C
has 0/5V
> transitions, where RS-232 has -12/+12V transitions.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4492/11351 - Release
Date: 01/08/16
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 23:01:39 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I could be wrong and spreading rumors here. But, I though I had read somewhere that the "RS" in RS-232 meant "Recommended Standard." I thought I had read that it was never adopted. If it had been adopted, it would be "IS-232."
The article was saying that RS-232 was originally intended to work for a distance of 50 feet (~16 meters). But because the standard was never formally adopted, you will probably not get that much distance.
Perhaps this is just a rumor. I don't know. I thought I'd pass it on. :)-Shawn
From: "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "JONES, RANDY (DNR)" <RANDY.JONES@...>
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2016 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
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Interesting, I had failed to note the "C" and thus did some Googling myself and found this:
The RS-232 Standard has gone through several revisions through the years. In the original RS-232, the signal would flip between positive and negative 25 volts. There were then three revisions, RS-232A, RS-232B, and RS-232C, which lowered the acceptable voltage from 25 to 12 to 5 volts. In 1969, the Electronic Industries Association Standards Committee adopted RS-232C, as a standard for computer manufacturers. Because this adoption date was so long ago, most manufacturers, including National Instruments, have dropped the "C" from the name and simply refer to the protocol as RS-232. In common, modern usage, there is no difference between RS-232 and RS-232C, protocol.
from here:
http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/1C8F13D0806056F886256FAC00649176
If the final statement is correct, then there shouldn't be any difference between the RS-232C signaling from the GRiD and that on any other modern laptop that still has a serial port.
Thanks all for the help, :)
Asa Jay
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 18:54:20 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
You are correct. The "standard" was never formally ratified (?) but
in general it's been adopted by pretty much all manufactures.
However, that doesn't mean any one manufacturer will adhere strictly
to the standard as currently published. I think for our purposes,
if GRiD labeled the port as RS232-C, it probably meets the C
standard, otherwise they could have just left the suffix off.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 1/8/2016 3:01 PM, Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]
wrote:
From: "Asa Jay Laughton
asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
To:
RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
"JONES, RANDY (DNR)"
Sent:
Friday, January 8, 2016 9:49 AM
Subject:
Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
Interesting, I had failed to note the "C" and
thus did some Googling myself and found this:
The RS-232 Standard has gone through several
revisions through the years. In the original
RS-232, the signal would flip between positive
and negative 25 volts. There were then three
revisions, RS-232A, RS-232B, and RS-232C,
which lowered the acceptable voltage from 25
to 12 to 5 volts. In 1969, the Electronic
Industries Association Standards Committee
adopted RS-232C, as a standard for computer
manufacturers. Because this adoption date was
so long ago, most manufacturers, including
National Instruments, have dropped the "C"
from the name and simply refer to the protocol
as RS-232. In common, modern usage, there is no
difference between RS-232 and
RS-232C, protocol.
from here:
http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/1C8F13D0806056F886256FAC00649176
If the final statement is correct, then there
shouldn't be any difference between the
RS-232C signaling from the GRiD and that on
any other modern laptop that still has a
serial port.
Thanks all for the help, :)
Asa Jay
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4492/11354 - Release
Date: 01/08/16
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 04:44:31 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Gridare 1530 ram expansion
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I am sorry, Andrea.I do not have the information you are looking for.I do know that it is 70 mS, 30 pin RAM. Trying to adapt 72 pin RAM sounds very difficult. I am guessing that 72 pin is 16 bit RAM and you will use the low bytes for 1 bank, and the high byte for another bank.If that is correct, I would be concerned about the timing. It would be very interesting if this works. :)Good luck,-Shawn
From: "Andrea Michele Cane zentaro.cane@gmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2016 8:14 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Gridare 1530 ram expansion
<!--#yiv8502681777 #yiv8502681777 .yiv8502681777ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv8502681777 div.yiv8502681777ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv8502681777 div.yiv8502681777photo-title a, #yiv8502681777 div.yiv8502681777photo-title a:active, #yiv8502681777 div.yiv8502681777photo-title a:hover, #yiv8502681777 div.yiv8502681777photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv8502681777 div.yiv8502681777attach-table div.yiv8502681777attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv8502681777 div.yiv8502681777attach-table div.yiv8502681777attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv8502681777 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv8502681777 div.yiv8502681777ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv8502681777 div.yiv8502681777attach-table div.yiv8502681777attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv8502681777 div.yiv8502681777attach-table div.yiv8502681777attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv8502681777 div.yiv8502681777ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv8502681777 --> <!--#yiv8502681777 #yiv8502681777ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv8502681777 #yiv8502681777ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv8502681777 #yiv8502681777ygrp-mkp #yiv8502681777hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv8502681777 #yiv8502681777ygrp-mkp #yiv8502681777ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv8502681777 #yiv8502681777ygrp-mkp .yiv8502681777ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv8502681777 #yiv8502681777ygrp-mkp .yiv8502681777ad p {margin:0;}#yiv8502681777 #yiv8502681777ygrp-mkp .yiv8502681777ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}-->
Hi,
I'm still trying expand the memory of my gridcase 1530 to the actual 2mbyte 8x 256k to 8 mbyte.My last attempt to adapt simm memory module to sipp failed probably because I used different module speed. After post the memory check Washington ok buttare After few minuts sistema hang. Could you remember the schematics for upgrading the memory. I don't remember the order of the slot for fitting the memory in order of two. Sipp/simm have a 8 bit data bus so for 8 mb i have to fit 8 1mb ram module. It's right? I' m looking to adapt a so- dimm 72 pin 8 mbyte fpm ram to the slot soldering each data and adress bus to the slot. Andrea
Date: 09 Jan 2016 16:32:34 -0800
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port
Here is the pin out for the 19 pin serial connector
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 00:45:58 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port [2 Attachments]
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
That's for posting! :)-Shawn
From: "klyball@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2016 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] RS-232 serial port [2 Attachments]
#yiv3211703398 #yiv3211703398 -- #yiv3211703398 .yiv3211703398ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv3211703398 div.yiv3211703398ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv3211703398 div.yiv3211703398photo-title a, #yiv3211703398 div.yiv3211703398photo-title a:active, #yiv3211703398 div.yiv3211703398photo-title a:hover, #yiv3211703398 div.yiv3211703398photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3211703398 div.yiv3211703398attach-table div.yiv3211703398attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv3211703398 div.yiv3211703398attach-table div.yiv3211703398attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv3211703398 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv3211703398 div.yiv3211703398ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv3211703398 div.yiv3211703398attach-table div.yiv3211703398attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3211703398 div.yiv3211703398attach-table div.yiv3211703398attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv3211703398 div.yiv3211703398ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv3211703398 #yiv3211703398 #yiv3211703398 #yiv3211703398 --#yiv3211703398ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv3211703398 #yiv3211703398ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv3211703398 #yiv3211703398ygrp-mkp #yiv3211703398hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv3211703398 #yiv3211703398ygrp-mkp #yiv3211703398ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv3211703398 #yiv3211703398ygrp-mkp .yiv3211703398ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv3211703398 #yiv3211703398ygrp-mkp .yiv3211703398ad p {margin:0;}#yiv3211703398 #yiv3211703398ygrp-mkp .yiv3211703398ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv3211703398 [Attachment(s) from klyball@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] included below]
Here is the pin out for the 19 pin serial connector
Date: 10 Jan 2016 09:22:41 -0800
From: klyball@...
Subject: Cool original Doc
Found this in my Grid Pile
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 17:46:00 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Cool original Doc [2 Attachments]
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Wow! Nice blast from the past....and the arrangement worked out so well for both companies! ;-)-Shawn
From: "klyball@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 12:22 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Cool original Doc [2 Attachments]
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Found this in my Grid Pile
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:36:48 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Serial port data
I find myself with a lack of knowledge. I have managed to export an
application from GRiD ROM and run it on a modern computer. The
application addresses the GRiD RS232C 25-pin serial port. The
device it controls uses three lines, TX, RX and GND.
When running the app on a modern computer, it fails to see the BUS
of the equipment. However, I can see signaling coming from the
serial port to the correct pins for TX. Why doesn't it work?
To troubleshoot this more, I'd like to know if the serial port on a
GRiD is pre-set to any specific values. Baud, parity, etc. I have
used an O-scope to compare the signals from the GRiD and my other
laptop. The only difference I can discern is voltage. When the
application runs on the GRiD, the voltage is 2.6V pk-pk, swinging
1.3V either side of GND. On the modern laptop its only putting out
1.44V pk-pk with a .7V swing either side of GND.
I am still researching the end-equipment to see if it requires a
higher voltage trigger or not. Meanwhile I thought I'd ask about
the serial port protocol; maybe I have to set my port differently on
my modern computer.
Any insights folks might have would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 23:49:51 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Asa,Have you tried looping back TX and RX to see if the computer and terminal program see the data it sent?-Shawn
From: "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2016 5:36 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
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Hello all,
I find myself with a lack of knowledge. I have managed to export an application from GRiD ROM and run it on a modern computer. The application addresses the GRiD RS232C 25-pin serial port. The device it controls uses three lines, TX, RX and GND.
When running the app on a modern computer, it fails to see the BUS of the equipment. However, I can see signaling coming from the serial port to the correct pins for TX. Why doesn't it work?
To troubleshoot this more, I'd like to know if the serial port on a GRiD is pre-set to any specific values. Baud, parity, etc. I have used an O-scope to compare the signals from the GRiD and my other laptop. The only difference I can discern is voltage. When the application runs on the GRiD, the voltage is 2.6V pk-pk, swinging 1.3V either side of GND. On the modern laptop its only putting out 1.44V pk-pk with a .7V swing either side of GND.
I am still researching the end-equipment to see if it requires a higher voltage trigger or not. Meanwhile I thought I'd ask about the serial port protocol; maybe I have to set my port differently on my modern computer.
Any insights folks might have would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:20:35 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
After looking in the TO and not finding anything regarding baud
rates, I decided to experiment.
It would appear the program or GRiD is sending at 4800. At least,
it all appears to operate at that baud rate on my other computer
just fine. I just couldn't see it being the voltage since most
RS232C compatible equipment should work even with the lower signal
voltage I was seeing. But being the troubleshooter I am, I asked as
many questions as possible up front.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 1/24/2016 3:49 PM, Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]
wrote:
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:21:59 -0800
From: Jim Stephens
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 1/24/2016 4:20 PM, Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]
wrote:
>
>
> A good point indeed, however... I did something even better.
>
> After looking in the TO and not finding anything regarding baud rates,
> I decided to experiment.
> It would appear the program or GRiD is sending at 4800. At least, it
> all appears to operate at that baud rate on my other computer just
> fine. I just couldn't see it being the voltage since most RS232C
> compatible equipment should work even with the lower signal voltage I
> was seeing. But being the troubleshooter I am, I asked as many
> questions as possible up front.
>
the .7 volts value sounds wrong. ARe you using a 10x probe? The
numbers seem off by that much.
.7 is the noise threshold of TTL of course. And only very modern
equipment should be using the 1.3 or 1.5v and that is with parts that
are running off a 3.3v Vcc.
Something isn't right there.
The baud rate should be settable either in Dos or in the application,
and only if they are working thru a dos COM port device. If they take
control of what may be marked COM1 or COM2 they usually mean they are
controlling devices @ 0x03f8, or 0x02f8 in the x86 address space which
are where the uarts live(d). That can cause some confusion. You may
need to proceed carefully till you figure that out as changing the Uart
parameters vary in a lot of ways depending on what way the program is
addressing the Uarts.
Most nicely behaved ones now days have to go thru the Dos COM port to
accommodate such as USB devices on modern systems. The COM application
program interface still works that way. And you can't get to any USB
device via physical ports except in very unusual interface examples.
thanks
Jim
> Thank you,
> Asa Jay
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>
>
> On 1/24/2016 3:49 PM, Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
>> Asa,
>> Have you tried looping back TX and RX to see if the computer and
>> terminal program see the data it sent?
>> -Shawn
>>
>
>
>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 13:06:16 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
text/plain; charset=utf-8
I thought about the 10x probe possibility as I went to bed last night. I'm new to this scope and have only played with it once before. As I passed by it I looked at the probe and found it's a dual range... with the switch set in 10x.
Doh!!
So tonight when I get home from work I will re-test it all. I also thought it sounded low but dismissed it quite quickly for some unknown reason.
I did get my other non-GRiD computer to work by changing the COM1 baud rate. I still don't know if the application tries to change it and fails to on my other computer or if the application uses the default state of the COM1 port when the GRiD is first turned on. More investigation needed.
Asa Jay
Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
"Jim Stephens jws@jwsss.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>On 1/24/2016 4:20 PM, Asa Jay Laughton asajay@asajay.com [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
>
>A good point indeed, however... I did something even better.
>
>After looking in the TO and not finding anything regarding baud rates, I decided to experiment.
>It would appear the program or GRiD is sending at 4800. At least, it all appears to operate at that baud rate on my other computer just fine. I just couldn't see it being the voltage since most RS232C compatible equipment should work even with the lower signal voltage I was seeing. But being the troubleshooter I am, I asked as many questions as possible up front.
>
>the .7 volts value sounds wrong. ARe you using a 10x probe? The numbers seem off by that much.
>
>.7 is the noise threshold of TTL of course. And only very modern equipment should be using the 1.3 or 1.5v and that is with parts that are running off a 3.3v Vcc.
>
>Something isn't right there.
>
>The baud rate should be settable either in Dos or in the application, and only if they are working thru a dos COM port device. If they take control of what may be marked COM1 or COM2 they usually mean they are controlling devices @ 0x03f8, or 0x02f8 in the x86 address space which are where the uarts live(d). That can cause some confusion. You may need to proceed carefully till you figure that out as changing the Uart parameters vary in a lot of ways depending on what way the program is addressing the Uarts.
>
>Most nicely behaved ones now days have to go thru the Dos COM port to accommodate such as USB devices on modern systems. The COM application program interface still works that way. And you can't get to any USB device via physical ports except in very unusual interface examples.
>
>thanks
>Jim
>
>
>Thank you,
>Asa Jay
>Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>On 1/24/2016 3:49 PM, Shawnerz shawnerz@yahoo.com [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
>
>
>
>Asa,
>
>Have you tried looping back TX and RX to see if the computer and terminal program see the data it sent?
>
>-Shawn
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 20:56:39 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
Both the GRiD RS232C serial out, and the USB-to-Serial converter on
my everyday Dell laptop, both read 10.2V pk-pk when the probe is set
to 1X (and not 10X). That is more like it.
Problem solved, just a little PEBKAC, or ID10T error. :)
Now, I still can't determine the baud rate out of the GRiD unless
there is some way to tell from the pulses or frequency of pulses
coming out of the port and read on an o-scope.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 1/26/2016 1:06 PM, Asa Jay Laughton asajay@...
[RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
"Jim Stephens jws@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
A good point indeed, however... I did
something even better.
the .7 volts value sounds wrong. ARe you using a 10x
probe? The numbers seem off by that much.
After looking in the TO and not finding anything
regarding baud rates, I decided to experiment.
It would appear the program or GRiD is sending at 4800.
At least, it all appears to operate at that baud rate on
my other computer just fine. I just couldn't see it
being the voltage since most RS232C compatible equipment
should work even with the lower signal voltage I was
seeing. But being the troubleshooter I am, I asked as
many questions as possible up front.
.7 is the noise threshold of TTL of course. And only very
modern equipment should be using the 1.3 or 1.5v and that
is with parts that are running off a 3.3v Vcc.
Something isn't right there.
The baud rate should be settable either in Dos or in the
application, and only if they are working thru a dos COM
port device. If they take control of what may be marked
COM1 or COM2 they usually mean they are controlling
devices @ 0x03f8, or 0x02f8 in the x86 address space which
are where the uarts live(d). That can cause some
confusion. You may need to proceed carefully till you
figure that out as changing the Uart parameters vary in a
lot of ways depending on what way the program is
addressing the Uarts.
Most nicely behaved ones now days have to go thru the Dos
COM port to accommodate such as USB devices on modern
systems. The COM application program interface still
works that way. And you can't get to any USB device via
physical ports except in very unusual interface examples.
thanks
Jim
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 1/24/2016 3:49 PM, Shawnerz shawnerz@...
[RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7357 / Virus Database: 4522/11490 - Release
Date: 01/26/16
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 06:53:00 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Asa,I can't remember what your end goal is. But, would an old version of Procomm Plus help? If it works correctly, you should be able to set the baud rate to whatever you want.-Shawn
From: "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@asajay.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
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To put this issue to bed, I again tested this evening.
Both the GRiD RS232C serial out, and the USB-to-Serial converter on my everyday Dell laptop, both read 10.2V pk-pk when the probe is set to 1X (and not 10X). That is more like it.
Problem solved, just a little PEBKAC, or ID10T error. :)
Now, I still can't determine the baud rate out of the GRiD unless there is some way to tell from the pulses or frequency of pulses coming out of the port and read on an o-scope.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:29:23 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Thank you but that will be unnecessary. I could also set the baud on the GRiD using the MODE command, but that's not what I was after.
My original goal was to:
1) Extract the Collins HF-80 radio control program from the GRiD and get it to run on any non-GRiD laptop. Accomplished.
2) Get the application to actually operate the radios from a modern laptop that doesn't contain an RS232 9-pin or 25-pin serial port. This I accomplished by using an FTDI chipset USB-to-serial (9-pin) adapter with Virtual Com Port drivers, reassigning the port to COM1 and finally, adjusting the baud rate via the Windows Device Manager for COM1 to 4800.
The GRiD had always worked with the system. My goal was to make it all work -without- the GRiD, so that I could also run other applications in my Ham Shack on a single computer. In the end, I still don't know what baud rate the GRiD is using once the application is up and running, but by adjusting the baud in Windows, I seem to have found a rate the system will operate at.
This will help keep the GRiD from being used a lot, preserving it for future use or conservation.
Asa Jay
W7TSC
Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
"Shawnerz shawnerz@yahoo.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>Asa,
>
>I can't remember what your end goal is. But, would an old version of Procomm Plus help? If it works correctly, you should be able to set the baud rate to whatever you want.
>
>-Shawn
>
>
>
>From: "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@asajay.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
>To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:56 PM
>Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
>
>
>
>
>To put this issue to bed, I again tested this evening.
>
>Both the GRiD RS232C serial out, and the USB-to-Serial converter on my everyday Dell laptop, both read 10.2V pk-pk when the probe is set to 1X (and not 10X). That is more like it.
>
>Problem solved, just a little PEBKAC, or ID10T error. :)
>
>Now, I still can't determine the baud rate out of the GRiD unless there is some way to tell from the pulses or frequency of pulses coming out of the port and read on an o-scope.
>
>Asa Jay
>
>Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 14:16:00 -0800
From: Jim Stephens
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
If you can find a way to do it, like a brick on the keyboard, the upper
case U is pattern 0x55. that pattern should give you the most wiggles
for the buck, and at least 8 of them will be changing exactly once per
bit time.
I know if you can get the scope to sync and have sufficiently low rep
rate, you should be able to time the bits you see and approximate the
baud rate.
parity and stop bits make a big difference.
The most common settings are
7 bits, Even parity, 1 stop bit,
8 bits, no parity, 1 stop bit.
Both of the above ascii frames have the same number of bits. the 7 bit
+ even party == 8 bits in the data portion of the frame
8 bits with no parity (giving the capability to send full 256 character
ascii table) has 8 data bits as well.
If the upper case U is transmitted with 7 E and 1, then you will have 4
bits, so the parity bit should be off, since you have an even number of
1 bits already (correct me if I'm wrong, been a long time since I've
done that particular thing w/o a cheet sheet).
I have a copy of pcplus somewhere, not sure of licensing, or if I have
one what will run on a dos session. I shifted to the windows version
and am not sure if there is a simple version that would fit on a DOS
floppy and run on dos or not.
thanks
Jim
On 1/27/2016 10:29 AM, Asa Jay Laughton asajay@...
[RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
>
>
> Thank you but that will be unnecessary. I could also set the baud on
> the GRiD using the MODE command, but that's not what I was after.
>
> My original goal was to:
> 1) Extract the Collins HF-80 radio control program from the GRiD and
> get it to run on any non-GRiD laptop. Accomplished.
> 2) Get the application to actually operate the radios from a modern
> laptop that doesn't contain an RS232 9-pin or 25-pin serial port.
> This I accomplished by using an FTDI chipset USB-to-serial (9-pin)
> adapter with Virtual Com Port drivers, reassigning the port to COM1
> and finally, adjusting the baud rate via the Windows Device Manager
> for COM1 to 4800.
>
> The GRiD had always worked with the system. My goal was to make it
> all work -without- the GRiD, so that I could also run other
> applications in my Ham Shack on a single computer. In the end, I
> still don't know what baud rate the GRiD is using once the application
> is up and running, but by adjusting the baud in Windows, I seem to
> have found a rate the system will operate at.
>
> This will help keep the GRiD from being used a lot, preserving it for
> future use or conservation.
>
> Asa Jay
> W7TSC
>
>
> /Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks/
>
>
> "Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
> <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Asa,
> I can't remember what your end goal is. But, would an old version of
> Procomm Plus help? If it works correctly, you should be able to set
> the baud rate to whatever you want.
> -Shawn
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
> <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> *To:* RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:56 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
>
>
>
> To put this issue to bed, I again tested this evening.
>
> Both the GRiD RS232C serial out, and the USB-to-Serial converter on my
> everyday Dell laptop, both read 10.2V pk-pk when the probe is set to
> 1X (and not 10X). That is more like it.
>
> Problem solved, just a little PEBKAC, or ID10T error. :)
>
> Now, I still can't determine the baud rate out of the GRiD unless
> there is some way to tell from the pulses or frequency of pulses
> coming out of the port and read on an o-scope.
>
> Asa Jay
>
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 06:39:08 +0000
From: David Walton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Well done!
> On 27 Jan 2016, at 18:29, "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@...m [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you but that will be unnecessary. I could also set the baud on the GRiD using the MODE command, but that's not what I was after.
>
> My original goal was to:
> 1) Extract the Collins HF-80 radio control program from the GRiD and get it to run on any non-GRiD laptop. Accomplished.
> 2) Get the application to actually operate the radios from a modern laptop that doesn't contain an RS232 9-pin or 25-pin serial port. This I accomplished by using an FTDI chipset USB-to-serial (9-pin) adapter with Virtual Com Port drivers, reassigning the port to COM1 and finally, adjusting the baud rate via the Windows Device Manager for COM1 to 4800.
>
> The GRiD had always worked with the system. My goal was to make it all work -without- the GRiD, so that I could also run other applications in my Ham Shack on a single computer. In the end, I still don't know what baud rate the GRiD is using once the application is up and running, but by adjusting the baud in Windows, I seem to have found a rate the system will operate at.
>
> This will help keep the GRiD from being used a lot, preserving it for future use or conservation.
>
> Asa Jay
> W7TSC
>
>
> Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
>
>
> "Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> Asa,
> I can't remember what your end goal is. But, would an old version of Procomm Plus help? If it works correctly, you should be able to set the baud rate to whatever you want.
> -Shawn
>
>
> From: "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
>
>
>
> To put this issue to bed, I again tested this evening.
>
> Both the GRiD RS232C serial out, and the USB-to-Serial converter on my everyday Dell laptop, both read 10.2V pk-pk when the probe is set to 1X (and not 10X). That is more like it.
>
> Problem solved, just a little PEBKAC, or ID10T error. :)
>
> Now, I still can't determine the baud rate out of the GRiD unless there is some way to tell from the pulses or frequency of pulses coming out of the port and read on an o-scope.
>
> Asa Jay
>
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>
>
>
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 20:29:22 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Follow-up RE:Serial port data
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 04:58:43 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Follow-up RE:Serial port data
Very cool, Asa!
From: "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 11:29 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Follow-up RE:Serial port data
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I had time today to hook up my o-scope to the GRiD again to try and determine the baud rate for certain. I first found this simple explanation of how to do it:
https://www.kumari.net/index.php/random/37-determing-unknown-baud-rate
I set up the GRiD and found it had a minimum pulse width of 410uS which works out to be 2400 baud:
I then did the same with my FTDI USB-to-serial cable on my Dell. It too came out the same, no matter what I set the COM1 port to. Therefore, it would appear the program sets the baud rate, despite what Windows says it should be. My previous failure was due to something else I hadn't considered, the config of the program at the time. When I set the baud in Windows to 2400, I also did more configs in the application in order to "see" the proper radios.
Therefore, the baud really -is- 2400 from the GRiD, at least for this specific program, and the program appears to set the baud of my USB-to-serial cable to 2400 on my Windows 7 laptop, despite what I set the port to in the Device Manager.
Just some little tidbits I thought you might enjoy.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 1/27/2016 2:16 PM, Jim Stephens jws@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
If you can find a way to do it, like a brick on the keyboard, the upper case U is pattern 0x55. that pattern should give you the most wiggles for the buck, and at least 8 of them will be changing exactly once per bit time.
I know if you can get the scope to sync and have sufficiently low rep rate, you should be able to time the bits you see and approximate the baud rate.
parity and stop bits make a big difference.
The most common settings are
7 bits, Even parity, 1 stop bit,
8 bits, no parity, 1 stop bit.
Both of the above ascii frames have the same number of bits. the 7 bit + even party == 8 bits in the data portion of the frame
8 bits with no parity (giving the capability to send full 256 character ascii table) has 8 data bits as well.
If the upper case U is transmitted with 7 E and 1, then you will have 4 bits, so the parity bit should be off, since you have an even number of 1 bits already (correct me if I'm wrong, been a long time since I've done that particular thing w/o a cheet sheet).
I have a copy of pcplus somewhere, not sure of licensing, or if I have one what will run on a dos session. I shifted to the windows version and am not sure if there is a simple version that would fit on a DOS floppy and run on dos or not.
thanks
Jim
On 1/27/2016 10:29 AM, Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
Thank you but that will be unnecessary. I could also set the baud on the GRiD using the MODE command, but that's not what I was after.
My original goal was to: 1) Extract the Collins HF-80 radio control program from the GRiD and get it to run on any non-GRiD laptop. Accomplished. 2) Get the application to actually operate the radios from a modern laptop that doesn't contain an RS232 9-pin or 25-pin serial port. This I accomplished by using an FTDI chipset USB-to-serial (9-pin) adapter with Virtual Com Port drivers, reassigning the port to COM1 and finally, adjusting the baud rate via the Windows Device Manager for COM1 to 4800.
The GRiD had always worked with the system. My goal was to make it all work -without- the GRiD, so that I could also run other applications in my Ham Shack on a single computer. In the end, I still don't know what baud rate the GRiD is using once the application is up and running, but by adjusting the baud in Windows, I seem to have found a rate the system will operate at.
This will help keep the GRiD from being used a lot, preserving it for future use or conservation.
Asa Jay W7TSC
Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
"Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Asa, I can't remember what your end goal is. But, would an old version of Procomm Plus help? If it works correctly, you should be able to set the baud rate to whatever you want. -Shawn
From: "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@...m>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
To put this issue to bed, I again tested this evening.
Both the GRiD RS232C serial out, and the USB-to-Serial converter on my everyday Dell laptop, both read 10.2V pk-pk when the probe is set to 1X (and not 10X). That is more like it.
Problem solved, just a little PEBKAC, or ID10T error. :)
Now, I still can't determine the baud rate out of the GRiD unless there is some way to tell from the pulses or frequency of pulses coming out of the port and read on an o-scope.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7357 / Virus Database: 4522/11495 - Release Date: 01/27/16
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 22:34:49 -0800
From: Jim Stephens
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Follow-up RE:Serial port data [1 Attachment]
On 1/28/2016 8:58 PM, Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
> Very cool, Asa!
Great progress. It is a cesspool trying to figure out who is doing what
without hardware tracing and the like, and you just have to guess or get
lucky in cases like this to get it working. Glad you figured it out.
Hope it works for you now.
thanks
Jim
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 03:58:50 +0000 (UTC)
From: Keith Reid
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Worked in the Data Communications/Computer industry. Do you have access to a serial line monitor (DLM4,5,etc or Atlantic Research line monitor) or know anyone who does? I picked one up on ebay for $20 and it still comes in handy.
A tough way would be to have another computer with a true serial port (no converters) and make a null modem cable.keith
From: "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port data
To put this issue to bed, I again tested this evening.
Both the GRiD RS232C serial out, and the USB-to-Serial converter on my everyday Dell laptop, both read 10.2V pk-pk when the probe is set to 1X (and not 10X). That is more like it.
Problem solved, just a little PEBKAC, or ID10T error. :)
Now, I still can't determine the baud rate out of the GRiD unless there is some way to tell from the pulses or frequency of pulses coming out of the port and read on an o-scope.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 1/26/2016 1:06 PM, Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
I thought about the 10x probe possibility as I went to bed last night. I'm new to this scope and have only played with it once before. As I passed by it I looked at the probe and found it's a dual range... with the switch set in 10x.
Doh!!
So tonight when I get home from work I will re-test it all. I also thought it sounded low but dismissed it quite quickly for some unknown reason.
I did get my other non-GRiD computer to work by changing the COM1 baud rate. I still don't know if the application tries to change it and fails to on my other computer or if the application uses the default state of the COM1 port when the GRiD is first turned on. More investigation needed.
Asa Jay
Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
"Jim Stephens jws@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
On 1/24/2016 4:20 PM, Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
A good point indeed, however... I did something even better.
After looking in the TO and not finding anything regarding baud rates, I decided to experiment.
It would appear the program or GRiD is sending at 4800. At least, it all appears to operate at that baud rate on my other computer just fine. I just couldn't see it being the voltage since most RS232C compatible equipment should work even with the lower signal voltage I was seeing. But being the troubleshooter I am, I asked as many questions as possible up front.
the .7 volts value sounds wrong. ARe you using a 10x probe? The numbers seem off by that much.
.7 is the noise threshold of TTL of course. And only very modern equipment should be using the 1.3 or 1.5v and that is with parts that are running off a 3.3v Vcc.
Something isn't right there.
The baud rate should be settable either in Dos or in the application, and only if they are working thru a dos COM port device. If they take control of what may be marked COM1 or COM2 they usually mean they are controlling devices @ 0x03f8, or 0x02f8 in the x86 address space which are where the uarts live(d). That can cause some confusion. You may need to proceed carefully till you figure that out as changing the Uart parameters vary in a lot of ways depending on what way the program is addressing the Uarts.
Most nicely behaved ones now days have to go thru the Dos COM port to accommodate such as USB devices on modern systems. The COM application program interface still works that way. And you can't get to any USB device via physical ports except in very unusual interface examples.
thanks
Jim
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
On 1/24/2016 3:49 PM, Shawnerz shawnerz@yahoo.com [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
Asa, Have you tried looping back TX and RX to see if the computer and terminal program see the data it sent? -Shawn
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7357 / Virus Database: 4522/11490 - Release Date: 01/26/16
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Date: 01 Feb 2016 07:54:05 -0800
From: walton.david@...
Subject: Help with GridCase 1660 battery rebuild
Hello,
The rechargeable battery pack for my GridCase 1660 has had it. It has an output of 14.4V 1.45Ah and the part number is G25-4209. I opened it up and found some unusual size batteries in it plus a black wire with a tab on it (see photos).
1. Does anyone know what size and type of batteries these are? Assume 12 x 1.2v either NiCd or NiMH. The only markings are HT-2 MC27 and each measure 43mm x 14mm which doesn't fit any size I am aware of.
2. Does anyone know what the black wire with Tab is? It has the following text (KLIXON 3-S 4MM75A X1J). Is it a temperature sensor or a resistor?
3. Any advise from someone who has attempted this before?
Many thanks
David.
Date: 01 Feb 2016 10:30:31 -0800
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: Help with GridCase 1660 battery rebuild
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hello, David.
Just guessing here. Based on late 90's technology, NiMH wasn't around yet. So NiCD is my bet.
I'm 99% sure it is a battery protector. If the cells overheat due to charging (or very rapid discharge), the junction opens. My guess is it's one of these: http://www.sensata.com/download/motor-ys11.pdf http://www.sensata.com/download/motor-ys11.pdf with a 75 deg C cut off.
If you're sentimental for having the battery pack, I would see about getting the pack rebuilt. I would call them on the phone and email pictures to get a quote first. In the past, on a cordless drill and radio projects, I've used a place out of PA and one in Canada with good results.
Good luck,
-Shawn
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2016 10:37:19 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Help with GridCase 1660 battery rebuild [2 Attachments]
text/plain; charset=utf-8
The black gizmo is most likely a thermal fuse of sorts, I could search the part number but I'm being lazy at the moment. We've put similar devices on some of our battery powered products to prevent overload. It's like a self-resetting fuse.
With that said, if you don't have any power from the batteries as a whole, but individual cells appear to have power, then that part is probably bad.
If you have a Batteries Plus near you, I'd take it to them and ask if they could replace the batteries. Take the whole assembly; they might be able to fix you up really well.
Asa Jay
Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
"walton.david@sky.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>[Attachment(s) from walton.david@sky.com [RuGRiD-Laptop] included below]
>
>Hello,
>
>
>The rechargeable battery pack for my GridCase 1660 has had it. It has an output of 14.4V 1.45Ah and the part number is G25-4209. I opened it up and found some unusual size batteries in it plus a black wire with a tab on it (see photos).
>
>
>1. Does anyone know what size and type of batteries these are? Assume 12 x 1.2v either NiCd or NiMH. The only markings are HT-2 MC27 and each measure 43mm x 14mm which doesn't fit any size I am aware of.
>
>
>2. Does anyone know what the black wire with Tab is? It has the following text (KLIXON 3-S 4MM75A X1J). Is it a temperature sensor or a resistor?
>
>
>3. Any advise from someone who has attempted this before?
>
>
>Many thanks
>
>
>David.
>
>
>< br class="yui-cursor">
>
>
>
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Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 02:05:30 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Internet Archive Announces Browser Based Windows 3.0
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
::Yawn::
Most of us can still actually run Windows 3.0/3.1 on our 1520's, 1535's, or 1550SX's!If you're interested, you can read about it here. :)Windows 3.1 Games Are Now Just a Click Away
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Windows 3.1 Games Are Now Just a Click Away
The Internet Archive brings the ability to run classic games and other software to a browser near you | |
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Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2016 20:29:31 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Old GRiD app on modern computers
The system also required a 25-pin serial connection, which modern
computers don't have. These challenges were not insurmountable and
the work has paid off.
I have documented the process used to pull off the files and run
them on a modern 64-bit Windows computer with no serial ports and
put that information on my web site:
http://w7tsc.org/index.php/an-tsc-60-v/tsc-60-v-2-4/15-grid
The information there might help others as needed in the following
areas:
- Pulling files from the ROM (requires the computer still work)
- Running old ROM files on a modern computer using DOSBox
- Using a USB-to-Serial converter for controlling a serial device
The reading is a bit long and broken into four specific articles
which can also be downloaded from the Downloads area.
I realize most people subscribed to this group probably want to
-use- the GRiD and this information may not interest them as much.
However, if someone finds themselves in a similar situation, these
articles may help.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 06:58:24 -0500
From: shawn
Subject: RE: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Old GRiD app on modern computers
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Wow! Very impressive! I'm sure that was a lot of work.
Thanks for giving us the link to your site of very good information-and pictures! :-)
-Shawn
-------- Original message --------
From: "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@asajay.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Date:02/21/2016 23:29 (GMT-05:00)
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Old GRiD app on modern computers
As some of you may recall, I was trying to extract a specialized program from a GRiD ROM in order to try running it on a modern computer. The goal was simple; to not use the GRiD full-time in the hopes of preserving it, while at the same time allowing me to run the radios it was supposed to control so I could continue conservation and restoration efforts.
The system also required a 25-pin serial connection, which modern computers don't have. These challenges were not insurmountable and the work has paid off.
I have documented the process used to pull off the files and run them on a modern 64-bit Windows computer with no serial ports and put that information on my web site:
http://w7tsc.org/index.php/an-tsc-60-v/tsc-60-v-2-4/15-grid
The information there might help others as needed in the following areas:
- Pulling files from the ROM (requires the computer still work)
- Running old ROM files on a modern computer using DOSBox
- Using a USB-to-Serial converter for controlling a serial device
The reading is a bit long and broken into four specific articles which can also be downloaded from the Downloads area.
I realize most people subscribed to this group probably want to -use- the GRiD and this information may not interest them as much. However, if someone finds themselves in a similar situation, these articles may help.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 21:07:59 +0000
From: D Walton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Old GRiD app on modern computers
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Thanks for listing. Glad to hear you had a good outcome.
Regards,
David Walton
> On 22 Feb 2016, at 04:29, Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> As some of you may recall, I was trying to extract a specialized program from a GRiD ROM in order to try running it on a modern computer. The goal was simple; to not use the GRiD full-time in the hopes of preserving it, while at the same time allowing me to run the radios it was supposed to control so I could continue conservation and restoration efforts.
>
> The system also required a 25-pin serial connection, which modern computers don't have. These challenges were not insurmountable and the work has paid off.
>
> I have documented the process used to pull off the files and run them on a modern 64-bit Windows computer with no serial ports and put that information on my web site:
>
> http://w7tsc.org/index.php/an-tsc-60-v/tsc-60-v-2-4/15-grid
>
> The information there might help others as needed in the following areas:
> - Pulling files from the ROM (requires the computer still work)
> - Running old ROM files on a modern computer using DOSBox
> - Using a USB-to-Serial converter for controlling a serial device
>
> The reading is a bit long and broken into four specific articles which can also be downloaded from the Downloads area.
>
> I realize most people subscribed to this group probably want to -use- the GRiD and this information may not interest them as much. However, if someone finds themselves in a similar situation, these articles may help.
>
> Asa Jay
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>
>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2016 22:04:29 -0800
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: GRiD Serial port research and comparison
With some help of others in this group and some additional research
I found the answers I needed. There is nothing special about the
GRiD serial port.
I have written this quick research up in an article on my web site
here:
http://w7tsc.org/index.php/an-tsc-60-v/tsc-60-v-2-4/15-grid/15-grid-serial-port-comparison-to-modern-computer
This includes links to a brief description of the RS232C standard
(modern standard by the way), and information on how to calculate
baud rate using an oscilloscope, complete with screenshots.
For anyone who wondered about the serial port on their GRiD.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
Date: 05 Jun 2016 13:39:42 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: 1520/1530 plasma screen
Does anyone have a spare screen from a part unit they would part with
Thanks
Grant
Date: 05 Jun 2016 13:48:12 -0700
From: lescovez@...
Subject: Re: 1520/1530 plasma screen
Hi!
Look here!:
Scott Smith
Computer Fusion
3516 Tarrant Main (DOCK 2)
Euless TX 76040
United States
Voice +001 817-354-4446
Fax +001 815-366-8093
scottsmith@cfusion.com https://e.mail.ru/compose/?mailto=mailto%3ascottsmith@cfusion.com
Yuri
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2016 16:49:40 -0400
From: shawn
Subject: RE: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1520/1530 plasma screen
text/plain; charset=utf-8
LCD or Plasma?
-------- Original message --------
From: "klyball@hotmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Date:06/05/2016 16:39 (GMT-05:00)
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1520/1530 plasma screen
Does anyone have a spare screen from a part unit they would part with
Thanks
Grant
------------------------------------
Posted by: klyball@hotmail.com
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 20:50:46 +0000 (UTC)
From: =?UTF-8?B?0K7RgNC40Lkg0JvQtdGB0LrQvtCy0LXRhg==?=
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=9E=D1=82=D0=B2:_[RuGRiD-Laptop]_Re:_1520/15?= =?UTF-8?Q?30_plasma_screen_[4_Attachments]?=
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
It costs about $ 95 (new!!!)
Yuri
понедельник, 6 июня 2016 1:48 "lescovez@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> писал(а):
[Attachment(s) from lescovez@yahoo.com [RuGRiD-Laptop] included below] Hi!
Look here!:
Scott Smith
Computer Fusion
3516 Tarrant Main (DOCK 2)
Euless TX 76040
United States
Voice +001 817-354-4446
Fax +001 815-366-8093
scottsmith@cfusion.com
Yuri
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Date: 05 Jun 2016 13:52:38 -0700
From: lescovez@...
Subject: RE: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1520/1530 plasma screen
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Red Plasma!
Yuri
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 15:28:52 +0000
From: Grant Shannon
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1520/1530 plasma screen
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Shawn
Plasma is what I am looking for
Thanks
________________________________
From: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of shawn shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: June 5, 2016 1:49 PM
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@...m
Subject: RE: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1520/1530 plasma screen
LCD or Plasma?
-------- Original message --------
From: "klyball@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
Date:06/05/2016 16:39 (GMT-05:00)
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1520/1530 plasma screen
Does anyone have a spare screen from a part unit they would part with
Thanks
Grant
------------------------------------
Posted by: klyball@...
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2016 14:41:42 -0400
From: shawn
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1520/1530 plasma screen
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hey there, Grant.
I saw your response yesterday, but I don't think I have one. My Grid's are in storage. I think I have an LCD screen to spare. But I do not think I have a plasma screen. I will stop by my storage location and look on the weekend.
Good luck,
-Shawn
-------- Original message --------
From: "Grant Shannon klyball@hotmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Date:06/06/2016 11:28 (GMT-05:00)
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1520/1530 plasma screen
Hi Shawn
Plasma is what I am looking for
Thanks
From: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of shawn shawnerz@yahoo.com [RuGRiD-Laptop] <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: June 5, 2016 1:49 PM
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1520/1530 plasma screen
LCD or Plasma?
-------- Original message --------
From: "klyball@hotmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
Date:06/05/2016 16:39 (GMT-05:00)
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1520/1530 plasma screen
Does anyone have a spare screen from a part unit they would part with
Thanks
Grant
------------------------------------
Posted by: klyball@hotmail.com
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 18:39:43 +0200
From: Fabio Gerosa
Subject: New to the Group- Presentation and some questions
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi All,
I have recently found this group and decided to subscribe to bring back to use, after more than 20 years, my GRIDCASE 3.
Before annoying all of you, is there an archive of the previous exchanged messaged I can download to try answering most of my questions by myself?
I am looking for external expansion bus pinout to try to adapt a possible HD drive. I guess the bus is a SCSI 1 like this on: http://www.interfacebus.com/SCSI_Differential_A_Cable_Pinout.html <http://www.interfacebus.com/SCSI_Differential_A_Cable_Pinout.html> . Am I correct?
I have the schematics of the internal HD Drive, a 34 pins connectors (I can share if you need it) , but I was not able to understand which kind of interface was implemented: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive_interface <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive_interface>
Any suggestions? I guess it was discussed so many time, so excuse me.
Thanks!
Fabio
Date: 08 Jun 2016 18:03:31 -0700
From: robcarnegie@...
Subject: New member, old Grid
Hello to all, I am a new member but there's nothing new about me or my Gridcase 1520, which I have owned since 1990. My Grid is in great shape but it has developed the clock and CMOS setting errors that I see are a common issue. I assume there's a battery in there that needs replacing.
Mine is a 286 and that is cool with me as there aren't too many 286 any things left in working order. I aged this system in a closet for about 20 years and now that I look at it again, I realize how nice these are compared to the throwaways made today.
Does anyone know the use of the two Rom sockets? I can't find my owners manual and I didn't see a pdf of it in the file section.
Rob
Date: 08 Jun 2016 23:51:49 -0700
From: Jeriddian@...
Subject: Re: New member, old Grid
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi, Rob,
Welcome to the group. You are correct in that the reason for the clock and CMOS settings disappearing is because the internal CMOS battery has indeed died after 26 years. This is the most common problem we run into here. As to replacing the battery, that depends on which version of the 1520 you have. If you are lucky, you have a separate Tadaran CMOS battery in the upper right area of the motherboard after you remove the keyboard cover plate, and that is a very easy fix. You can't miss it as it is purple in color and easily distinguishable. The batteries are easily obtainable also. However, chances are good that your version will likely have instead the Dallas 1287A RTC chip on the board, in which case, you will have some work to do. That is because the CMOS battery is located inside the 1287A RTC chip itself. There are files in the files section that deal with this. On a 1520, I would not recommend trying to replace the 1287A RTC chip, as on some 1520's this locks the computer into an unbreakable loop where it will never boot up. We have figured a way around this here on the forum, but it involves burning new ROM chips for your computer, which can get rather involved. It is recommended instead you replaced the CMOS battery on the 1287A RTC chip with an external one as per the instructions you will find in the files section.
The two ROM sockets are for 128K ROM's which can hold programs which can be booted from there. The two ROMs essentially function as an extension of the "A" drive, such that if you had two ROM chips inserted, your "A" drive would show 1.69 Mb of capacity, instead of 1.44 Mb. You just have to remember that the extra 256K is unalterable ROM data. Most people use these ROM chips for the OS (usually MSDOS 3.1), to automatically boot the computer, especially if the 1520 is a model that does not have a hard drive. You can store other programs on the ROM's as well, which can be called at any time from the "A" drive.
If you will look on the files section get the PDF list of "Jeriddian's downloadable files". The first listed file is a treatise on how to replace the 1287A RTC chip in a 1530 ( or 1520 in some cases. The procedure is identical for both models). Replacing the chip is not what you want to do, but it will show you how to disassemble the computer, and remove the 1287A chip from the motherboard, so that you can modify the chip with a new battery and then re-solder it back into the motherboard. It will require some unsoldering tools to do this right. There are also a couple of sites that can help you in achieving this.
http://www.mcamafia.de/mcapage0/dsrework.htm http://www.mcamafia.de/mcapage0/dsrework.htm
This is a file that describes the process of attaching and external battery to the 1287A RTC chip. Do not put the battery on top of the chip though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vltmhi5Thw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vltmhi5Thw
This is a you tube video that shows how to put ion an external battery. Remember that you will have to find some other place in the computer to put the CMOS battery, a coin battery probably being best, and not on top of the chip itself as there is no room for it there due to the keyboard being right on top of the chip.
Hope this helps, Rob. Good luck
Phil
Date: 08 Jun 2016 23:51:54 -0700
From: Jeriddian@...
Subject: Re: New to the Group- Presentation and some questions
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hello, Fabio,
Welcome to the group. To be succinct, the bus is NOT SCSI. SCSI was not invented until well after these computers were designed. In fact, the basic IDE standard itself had not yet been finalized. We are talking about the early 1980's. The HD pin configuration is for a standard called MFM (modified frequency modulation), a forerunner of IDE. But on top of that, this is in the time when standardization of hard drives universally across the board had not yet been done. In the early to mid '80's, computers had to individually program into their BIOS code all the necessary data for all the hard drives that computer would accept. In other words, the computer was designed to accept only a few hard wired parameter descriptions of a few hard drives, and would not recognize any others. This is the case with the GRID. The only hard drives this computer would accept were the old Conner hard drives, consisting of the CP series. Most of my knowledge is of the 1500 series, not the Gridcase 3, but the Gridcase 3 is the forerunner of the 1500 series, and therefore a little more primitive. It usually ran MSDOS 2.1 if I recall correctly. The problem you are likely going to have is that no modern hard drive will likely even be recognized by the computer at all, due to hard coding of the BIOS. I do not know exactly which hard drives the Gridcase 3 uses, if any, and maybe there are some other members in the forum who can help you with this better than I can, but this is my experience.
Perhaps you can find a way to connect a hard drive, but I think it would take some major recoding of the BIOS, or a program and hardware like an ADAPTEC SCSI connector to the parallel port (I have one for my 1500's) which can connect a SCSI hard drive as a peripheral, but I think the Gridcase 3 may be too primitive for that. However I am not a programmer, so I can't be sure. I wish you good luck.
Phil
Date: 09 Jun 2016 00:04:19 -0700
From: robcarnegie@...
Subject: Re: New member, old Grid
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Thanks for the information Phil. It sounds like I will find everything I need to get it sorted out.
I actually have a basement full of old computers (most of which I paid new retail prices for) and this is one of the few that isn't working.
People have been saying I horde old computers but now I can just say that I am into "Retro Computing".
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 10:28:37 +0200
From: Fabio Gerosa
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: New to the Group- Presentation and some questionsam
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Bello Phil
Thanks a lot for al the info.
My Gridcase3 came without an internal HD nor any external one.
Regarding the MFM interface for the internal HD, the only dubt I stil have is based on the pinout info I received 30 years ago from Grid ( here below), it do not match at all with the signals described here for MFM:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive_interface
About the external expansion bus, should I say It is not a SCSI Interface as well?
Thanks!
Regards
Fabio Gerosa
> Il giorno 09/giu/2016, alle ore 08:51, Jeriddian@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] <RuGRiD-Laptop@...m> ha scritto:
>
> Hello, Fabio,
>
> Welcome to the group. To be succinct, the bus is NOT SCSI. SCSI was not invented until well after these computers were designed. In fact, the basic IDE standard itself had not yet been finalized. We are talking about the early 1980's. The HD pin configuration is for a standard called MFM (modified frequency modulation), a forerunner of IDE. But on top of that, this is in the time when standardization of hard drives universally across the board had not yet been done. In the early to mid '80's, computers had to individually program into their BIOS code all the necessary data for all the hard drives that computer would accept. In other words, the computer was designed to accept only a few hard wired parameter descriptions of a few hard drives, and would not recognize any others. This is the case with the GRID. The only hard drives this computer would accept were the old Conner hard drives, consisting of the CP series. Most of my knowledge is of the 1500 series, not the Gridcase 3, but the Gridcase 3 is the forerunner of the 1500 series, and therefore a little more primitive. It usually ran MSDOS 2.1 if I recall correctly. The problem you are likely going to have is that no modern hard drive will likely even be recognized by the computer at all, due to hard coding of the BIOS. I do not know exactly which hard drives the Gridcase 3 uses, if any, and maybe there are some other members in the forum who can help you with this better than I can, but this is my experience.
> Perhaps you can find a way to connect a hard drive, but I think it would take some major recoding of the BIOS, or a program and hardware like an ADAPTEC SCSI connector to the parallel port (I have one for my 1500's) which can connect a SCSI hard drive as a peripheral, but I think the Gridcase 3 may be too primitive for that. However I am not a programmer, so I can't be sure. I wish you good luck.
>
> Phil
>
Date: 10 Jun 2016 09:00:53 -0700
From: bikebeer2k3@...
Subject: Introduction and Gridcase 1530 questions
Hi Folks,
My name's Julian and I've just acquired a 1530 in pretty clean condition. I'm new to Grids, but not to vintage computers. My collection consists of IBM XT/AT, Amigas (1200, 2000, 3000), Apple IIc, Mac LCII & Motorola Starmax, Tandy 102, HP 200LX, Zenith Supersport 286 portable and an AT&T PC7300 Unix PC (work in progress). I'd been looking for a Grid for a long time and finally came across one for a good price on ebay.
The machine has a dead Dallas battery with the 02 error message. I made a GridDOS 3.3 disk with the tool in the files section and booted it via F1 key. I ran Gridscan and it detected all of the hardware (including a 387 coprocessor!) except for the hard drive.
I disassembled it and found lube all over the Conner CP3044 hard drive (see attached photos). I desoldered the Dallas chip, attached leads for an external CR2032 battery and reinstalled the chip. For testing I also installed the Conner into a PIII machine I keep around - the bios detects the Conner drive but is unable to boot from it. I booted a gparted linux disk to see if it could see the drive/partitions and I see a ton of I/O seek errors from the Linux kernel during boot - so I suspect the drive is shot.
I'm in the process of reassembling it and will test the drive back in the Grid to see if I can get it to work. If I can't, I'll be looking at the BIOS modifications that allow use of other drives. I've read a good bit of the conversations in the group, but I have several questions.
1) Does anyone have a good location (with photos) for the external Dallas battery on a 1530? I've done some test fitting of a surface mount battery holder, wrapped in silicon tape and it looks like it can sit just forward of the keyboard cable connectors.
2) I cracked a small piece off of the left hinge when removing the screen (see photos) - my fault for not following disassembly directions... Any ideas on re-attaching this piece? I suspect superglue won't hold. Maybe epoxy?
3) I can't believe all of the stuff that was on the drive & around it is lube from the hard drive motor. There's SO much of it. It came off pretty easily with 99% isopropyl. Any chance it's some gasket material from between the drive halves? I've never seen a drive lubed like this, even old seagate ST-225 5.25" drives didn't have this much lube.
4) I'm interested in making DOS and maybe application ROMS for the ROM sockets on the motherboard, as well as burning BIOS ROMs myself. I've read over the ROM building guide from the files section and have the rombuild.exe application. Any suggestions / part numbers / sources for the chips and equipment necessary?
5) There's a 1530ROM.zip file in the files section that is labelled as allowing any hard drive. I assume this means any drive under 528MB total size and with the odd placement of the IDE connector like the original conner has, so that it will fit the drive backplane? What drive makes/models are these ROM images configured for? I understand that I can modify the included .BAS program for other drive parameters.
6) Has there been any progress towards a BIOS that would allow a IDE-CF adapter?
That's it for now. Thanks for reading if you've made it this far. I'm sure more questions will come up as I work with this great old computer.
Thanks for any advice!
-Julian
Date: 10 Jun 2016 10:10:52 -0700
From: Jeriddian@...
Subject: Re: Introduction and Gridcase 1530 questions
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Excellent Work, Julian,
Welcome to the group. My particular interest has always bene the 1530's as well, ever since I bought my first one in the mid-1980's when it first came out. Your pictures tell the story well, and I can see both the CPU and the math coprocessor in them. As you noted, the dead CMOS battery would not allow you to see the hard drive. Once you performed the external CMOS battery conversion procedure, your computer will now see the hard drive but cannot read it. As you suspect, the Conner drive is indeed shot, and that is why. That was an unfortunate problem we have in that the old Conner drives very often went bad after time like this and had to be frequently replaced. The leakage of oil is a telltale sign of drive failure. Your only option is to replace the drive. I will address your questions now:
1) Although I have a couple of my machines with replacement external batteries, I have never found a very good place for them myself. This is why I tend to simply replace the 1287A with a new one (when I can). However, the best option may be where the Tadaran battery would normally go. After some time I think GRiD realized that Dallas 1287A RTC was a bother and changed the design to using a Motorola RTC with an external CMOS battery (Actually I am not sure which came first. I could be wrong and the Dallas 1287A design may have come afterward.) This was a Tadaran Lithium-Ion battery which was purple in color and was located in the upper right area of the motherboard, just below the hard drive, and right above the RAM sticks. When GRiD made these changes, they didn't change that area of the circuitry, and so that space where the battery should be located is empty in the 1287A versions. My best success has been to find a way to fix a Tadaran battery there and lead the wires from there to the 1287A. Other than that location, I too have not really found a very successful area to locate a battery, at least until I find a more adaptable battery configuration (maybe a long, thin tube type might be easier to put in the computer?)
2) The hinges for the screen are highly susceptible to breakage and one just has to be careful with them. Usually I have replaced broken ones with good ones from other machines. I have toyed with the idea of making a mold of an intact hinge and try to cast one made of metal, but never actually tried it. As to repairing it, I would recommend epoxy also (JB Weld also comes to mind), and I would recommend thickening up the repair underneath the slide area to give it more strength. It should not interfere much with the passage of the wires there, but I also am not sure about the hinge being able to be installed back into place on the case. However, I am sure you can assess that when you try it. You only other option is to get an intact hinge from a dead machine.
3) Yeah, those old Conner drives leaked pretty good. I can't tell you if there is a gasket between the two parts. Maybe someone else on the forum can tell, but I've never actually taken one of those drives apart to see. I usually just replace them. Original drives can be found, but it is difficult.
4) I think some of the other guys can help you better with the programming of the ROM chips. I've never tried it. Shawn, our administrator could tell you better about that I think. The chips are 128K chips though. That much I do know. Also understand that if you put a ROM chip into the machine, it will become part of the "A" drive as far as the 1530 is concerned. In other words, you will access it through the A: prompt along with any floppy that you put in. The computer just combines the two sources into one volume and augments the capacity of the drive accordingly (1.44 Mb to 1.57 Mb)
5) Shawn and I (I think) are the only ones who have actually done any programming of the BIOS chips and actually burned EPROMS to accept other HD's. CJFord wrote that program, but I have never tried it myself. I always hard coded my changes, as did Shawn, I believe. You could send CJFord a PM about it and see how it works. There are two places in the BIOS you must change to get it to accept a new HD. One location lists the brand and model, and the other lists the hard drive parameters. I think the .exe program takes the basic BIOS BIN files provided, and changes them according to your input to include the new hard drive, then you can burn new BIOS chips. But again, I am not sure as I have never tried it. As to the hard drives themselves, that odd placement of the plugs in the back is a limitation and would have to be considered in replacement. The GRID only accepted six hard drives: CP3022 (half height 20 MB), CP3024 (full height 20 MB), CP3044 (Full height 40 MB), CP3042 (half height 40 MB), CP344 (full height 100 MB), and CP3104 (half height 100 MB). You are correct that the limits of DOS prevent anything more than a 528 MB drive being used fully. There are many Conner drives that used that configuration, not just the CP series that are the only ones standard recognized. Both Shawn and I have adapted a CFS420A to a 1520 and 1530 respectively (420 MB). I have also used a couple of other such Conners, one with 170 MB and another with about 230 MB (I can't remember their model numbers). I have not tried any other brand of hard drive however. I suppose it should work though if you put in a WD or Seagate, but I don't know for sure. You can get a list of all the Conner hard drives from Seagate off the web. If you limit yourself to just the smaller capacity drives under 500 MB, they nearly all have the right pin configuration, though of course you need to check it out to be sure. I should probably have put that list up in the files section at some point, but you can get it easily enough.
6) I don't think anyone has tried to alter the BIOS to accept an IDE-CF adapter. Except possibly for Mike Brutman. none of us here have the programming skills in assembly language to do it. It was fortunate that reprogramming the BIOS for other hard drives was a simple and straight forward process. However, Shawn has been experimenting for some time to try and adapt the bus to accept booting the computer from an external flash drive. However, you will need to talk to him about the specifics.
Again, Welcome to the group, Julian. I hope this helps you along the way.
Phil
Date: 11 Jun 2016 16:42:09 -0700
From: bikebeer2k3@...
Subject: Re: Introduction and Gridcase 1530 questions
Thanks for the battery placement idea, that worked great.
I seem to have gotten lucky with the hard drive, after I put everything back together, the machine found its hard drive and booted.
I haven't had much time to investigate the software that's on it yet.
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 23:51:24 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Introduction and Gridcase 1530 questions [4 Attachments]
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Very interesting recovery!So, it looks like you have Grid that was used to monitor and control building automation and control.Most commercial buildings communicate via a protocol called MODBUS. That would explain the MODSNOOP selection.
PLC information on Wikipedia here: Programmable logic controller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Programmable logic controller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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And there is an "old school" way of electronically controlling relays. By "old school" I mean 1970's technology. It uses things called "relay ladders" and a bunch of things I do not understand. But it was cutting edge building and factory automation in the 70's and 80's.That looks very cool! :)-Shawn
From: "bikebeer2k3@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 7:42 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Introduction and Gridcase 1530 questions [4 Attachments]
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Thanks for the battery placement idea, that worked great.
I seem to have gotten lucky with the hard drive, after I put everything back together, the machine found its hard drive and booted.
I haven't had much time to investigate the software that's on it yet.
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 01:01:31 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Introduction and Gridcase 1530 questions
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Sorry for not responding sooner.
I have not programmed the ROM chips. I have programmed the EPROMs used for BIOS. But I have not programmed the ROM's that contain the OS.
And yes, it does need to be changed in two places. In addition to those changes, we have not been able to understand the checksum routine. The checksum, itself, is a simple CRC-8 checksum. The problem is, the BIOS EPROM checksum value is does not appear in the EPROM data. Or, if it does appear, it may be encoded as another value. I have never been able to identify the byte locations. As a result, I have had to go to the beginning of the file and manipulate the copyright text in order to get the new checksum to match the original checksum.
Mike Brutman left this list. But he can be contacted on another excellent resource: Vintage Computer Forums. http://www.vcfed.org/forum/forum.php
I think it was suggested, several years ago by another member, that our understanding of the BIOS to IDE controller communication was backwards. The check to see if the drive matches one stored in BIOS was not done for security. It was done because the BIOS, for some reason, needs low-level control of the hard drive. I do not know what that means. However, it explains why if you change the BIOS parameters to match some other hard drive, even if it's below 520 MB, the Grid won't boot. I think Phil and I got *lucky* that the Conner CFS420 drives worked. I think the CFS420 internally thought, "Yeah, OK, I'll work with this controller" and that's why it worked. More and more, I am thinking the changes to the BIOS had little to do with it. Just my theory...and I've been wrong many times.
I had an idea to use 2 Raspberry Pi Zero's and some Python code, to act as a "man-in-the-middle" to mimic a CP-344. However, it is nothing more than an idea at this point. And, of course, the boot up of the 16 MHz 286, would have to be held off for a minute or more, while the 1 GHz ARM controller boots and catches up. ;-)
I'm no hardware, nor programming expert. So, feel free to post your ideas, comments, or suggestions.Thanks,-Shawn
From: "Jeriddian@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 1:10 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Introduction and Gridcase 1530 questions
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Excellent Work, Julian,
Welcome to the group. My particular interest has always bene the 1530's as well, ever since I bought my first one in the mid-1980's when it first came out. Your pictures tell the story well, and I can see both the CPU and the math coprocessor in them. As you noted, the dead CMOS battery would not allow you to see the hard drive. Once you performed the external CMOS battery conversion procedure, your computer will now see the hard drive but cannot read it. As you suspect, the Conner drive is indeed shot, and that is why. That was an unfortunate problem we have in that the old Conner drives very often went bad after time like this and had to be frequently replaced. The leakage of oil is a telltale sign of drive failure. Your only option is to replace the drive. I will address your questions now:
1) Although I have a couple of my machines with replacement external batteries, I have never found a very good place for them myself. This is why I tend to simply replace the 1287A with a new one (when I can). However, the best option may be where the Tadaran battery would normally go. After some time I think GRiD realized that Dallas 1287A RTC was a bother and changed the design to using a Motorola RTC with an external CMOS battery (Actually I am not sure which came first. I could be wrong and the Dallas 1287A design may have come afterward.) This was a Tadaran Lithium-Ion battery which was purple in color and was located in the upper right area of the motherboard, just below the hard drive, and right above the RAM sticks. When GRiD made these changes, they didn't change that area of the circuitry, and so that space where the battery should be located is empty in the 1287A versions. My best success has been to find a way to fix a Tadaran battery there and lead the wires from there to the 1287A. Other than that location, I too have not really found a very successful area to locate a battery, at least until I find a more adaptable battery configuration (maybe a long, thin tube type might be easier to put in the computer?)
2) The hinges for the screen are highly susceptible to breakage and one just has to be careful with them. Usually I have replaced broken ones with good ones from other machines. I have toyed with the idea of making a mold of an intact hinge and try to cast one made of metal, but never actually tried it. As to repairing it, I would recommend epoxy also (JB Weld also comes to mind), and I would recommend thickening up the repair underneath the slide area to give it more strength. It should not interfere much with the passage of the wires there, but I also am not sure about the hinge being able to be installed back into place on the case. However, I am sure you can assess that when you try it. You only other option is to get an intact hinge from a dead machine.
3) Yeah, those old Conner drives leaked pretty good. I can't tell you if there is a gasket between the two parts. Maybe someone else on the forum can tell, but I've never actually taken one of those drives apart to see. I usually just replace them. Original drives can be found, but it is difficult.
4) I think some of the other guys can help you better with the programming of the ROM chips. I've never tried it. Shawn, our administrator could tell you better about that I think. The chips are 128K chips though. That much I do know. Also understand that if you put a ROM chip into the machine, it will become part of the "A" drive as far as the 1530 is concerned. In other words, you will access it through the A: prompt along with any floppy that you put in. The computer just combines the two sources into one volume and augments the capacity of the drive accordingly (1.44 Mb to 1.57 Mb)
5) Shawn and I (I think) are the only ones who have actually done any programming of the BIOS chips and actually burned EPROMS to accept other HD's. CJFord wrote that program, but I have never tried it myself. I always hard coded my changes, as did Shawn, I believe. You could send CJFord a PM about it and see how it works. There are two places in the BIOS you must change to get it to accept a new HD. One location lists the brand and model, and the other lists the hard drive parameters. I think the .exe program takes the basic BIOS BIN files provided, and changes them according to your input to include the new hard drive, then you can burn new BIOS chips. But again, I am not sure as I have never tried it. As to the hard drives themselves, that odd placement of the plugs in the back is a limitation and would have to be considered in replacement. The GRID only accepted six hard drives: CP3022 (half height 20 MB), CP3024 (full height 20 MB), CP3044 (Full height 40 MB), CP3042 (half height 40 MB), CP344 (full height 100 MB), and CP3104 (half height 100 MB). You are correct that the limits of DOS prevent anything more than a 528 MB drive being used fully. There are many Conner drives that used that configuration, not just the CP series that are the only ones standard recognized. Both Shawn and I have adapted a CFS420A to a 1520 and 1530 respectively (420 MB). I have also used a couple of other such Conners, one with 170 MB and another with about 230 MB (I can't remember their model numbers). I have not tried any other brand of hard drive however. I suppose it should work though if you put in a WD or Seagate, but I don't know for sure. You can get a list of all the Conner hard drives from Seagate off the web. If you limit yourself to just the smaller capacity drives under 500 MB, they nearly all have the right pin configuration, though of course you need to check it out to be sure. I should probably have put that list up in the files section at some point, but you can get it easily enough.
6) I don't think anyone has tried to alter the BIOS to accept an IDE-CF adapter. Except possibly for Mike Brutman. none of us here have the programming skills in assembly language to do it. It was fortunate that reprogramming the BIOS for other hard drives was a simple and straight forward process. However, Shawn has been experimenting for some time to try and adapt the bus to accept booting the computer from an external flash drive. However, you will need to talk to him about the specifics.
Again, Welcome to the group, Julian. I hope this helps you along the way.
Phil
Date: 12 Jun 2016 17:16:37 -0700
From: Jeriddian@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: New to the Group- Presentation and some questionsam
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi, Fabio,
You are definitely correct in that this is not SCSI. Way too primitive for that. SCSI didn't appear until after 1990 or so. I forgot this was a GRiD 3, therefore it is an old 8 bit machine, running an 8086/8088/Z80 type of processor. As such, the expansion bus likely is not for a hard drive, as most computers of that era didn't even offer one, especially the portables. Therefore it is not MFM at all. Mybad. It is 34 pins, and I initially thought maybe it was for an external floppy drive, but the pins don't seem to match for that. So I don't know what it is for, but I suspect it might be proprietary for some specific external peripheral that GRID made for that unit. GRiD does have a history for that. The 1500' s had such a proprietary 25 pin DB connector for its external peripherals. Past that, I don't know. Good Luck.
Phil
Date: 12 Jun 2016 18:10:00 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: New to the Group- Presentation and some questions
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi, Is it the 50 pin connector,
The 11xx series used gpib but the drives used sasi I think it's possible that when the did the 12xx gridcase 3 series they might have skiped the gpib and that 50 pin is sasi to connect the 22xx drives
Just a thought
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 01:37:11 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: New to the Group- Presentation and some questions
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Whoa. In my experience, GPIB is way too slow for hard drive communication or any kinda of sustained high data rate communication. It's usually used to talk to test equipment, or other slow speed peripherals. It is also used to control receivers and transmitters, right Asa? :)-Shawn
From: "klyball@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:10 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: New to the Group- Presentation and some questions
#yiv3855895747 #yiv3855895747 -- #yiv3855895747 .yiv3855895747ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv3855895747 div.yiv3855895747ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv3855895747 div.yiv3855895747photo-title a, #yiv3855895747 div.yiv3855895747photo-title a:active, #yiv3855895747 div.yiv3855895747photo-title a:hover, #yiv3855895747 div.yiv3855895747photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3855895747 div.yiv3855895747attach-table div.yiv3855895747attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv3855895747 div.yiv3855895747attach-table div.yiv3855895747attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv3855895747 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv3855895747 div.yiv3855895747ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv3855895747 div.yiv3855895747attach-table div.yiv3855895747attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3855895747 div.yiv3855895747attach-table div.yiv3855895747attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv3855895747 div.yiv3855895747ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv3855895747 #yiv3855895747 #yiv3855895747 #yiv3855895747 --#yiv3855895747ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv3855895747 #yiv3855895747ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv3855895747 #yiv3855895747ygrp-mkp #yiv3855895747hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv3855895747 #yiv3855895747ygrp-mkp #yiv3855895747ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv3855895747 #yiv3855895747ygrp-mkp .yiv3855895747ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv3855895747 #yiv3855895747ygrp-mkp .yiv3855895747ad p {margin:0;}#yiv3855895747 #yiv3855895747ygrp-mkp .yiv3855895747ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv3855895747
Hi,Is it the 50 pin connector,The 11xx series used gpib but the drives used sasi I think it's possible that when the did the 12xx gridcase 3 series they might have skiped the gpib and that 50 pin is sasi to connect the 22xx drives Just a thought
Date: 12 Jun 2016 18:46:53 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: New to the Group- Presentation and some questions
Correct
They used gpib for floppies and sasi for harddrive
But I would think they just moved to sasi for both for the gridcase 3
When I put my 50pin grid harddrive back together I'll try hooking it up to my gridcase 3
Mind you my 2102 harddrive floppy combo is just gpib and works fine
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:08:57 -0700
From: Jim Stephens
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: New to the Group- Presentation and some questions
text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 6/12/2016 6:37 PM, Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
> Whoa. In my experience, GPIB is way too slow for hard drive
> communication or any kinda of sustained high data rate communication.
Two friends of mine made businesses of adding disks to both the IBM PC
and to TRS80s in the same timeframe as Grid had the GPIB's out.
They both used GPIB interfaces because of the ease of doing interfaces
for both the PC and the TRS80 for that device bus. Not a ball of fire
but it outran floppies by a lot. Hard disk performance wasn't an issue.
Neither were bootable devices either, which became an issue for them as
IBM got their act together and came out with the Xebec controller (and
later WD) for the XT PC. The product my friend had for the TRS80 was
competitive with Radio Shacks products till the product itself sort of
was relegated to toy status. At one time Dbase on anything was a
business product, including on the TRS80 because of the popularity of it
on previous CPM systems. Eventually the TRS80 was not interesting for
that and that was about when my friend folded his business there.
The GRID stuff was always astronomically expensive and I don't know
anyone who had the funds to play with GRID in those days. As in either
personally, or business. Only in the later 90s did I get some of the
red screen units which is really all I have.
thanks
Jim
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 21:18:10 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: New to the Group- Presentation and some questions
The GRiD used with the AN/TSC-60(V)9 HF comm facility used the RS232C
serial bus for controlling the HF-80 radios. Most GPIB stuff I've
ever been exposed to was with electronic test equipment used in
production testing of RF radios. I honestly don't think GPIB would be
used for hard drives; SCSI yes.
Asa Jay
Quoting "Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
<RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>:
> Whoa. In my experience, GPIB is way too slow for hard drive
> communication or any kinda of sustained high data rate
> communication. It's usually used to talk to test equipment, or other
> slow speed peripherals. It is also used to control receivers and
> transmitters, right Asa? :)-Shawn
> From: "klyball@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
> <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:10 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: New to the Group- Presentation and
> some questions
>
>
--
Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
******************************************************
http://www.w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
Date: 12 Jun 2016 21:44:45 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: New to the Group- Presentation and some questions
Most early hp stuff used hpib/gpib for all there drives tape floppy and hard
My grid hard drive is gpib to sasi it has a standard xebec sasi controller in it to gpib
The other I have has both sasi and gpib inputs
I'll scope out the gridcase 3 connector when I get a chance
Date: 12 Jun 2016 21:50:54 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: New to the Group- Presentation and some questions
Check out the hp drive project I was thinking something like this was a good idea for the compass
I use it with my hp8924c and my hp3000
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 14:19:46 +0200
From: Fabio Gerosa
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] New to the Group- Presentation and some questionsam
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Thanks everyone.
For sure the 50 pins expansion bus at the back of GridCase3 is for connecting the following devices: 2200 BaseStation for battery pack recharge, 2201 Disk System and 2202 5 1/4 diskette drive and all are stackable via the 50 pins connector. That’s why I was thinking to SCSI, but more probably diskette drive used a kind of interface and HD dive another one through two set in pins.
Anyone was looking for the original Grid-DOS 2.11 3 1/2 disk? I have it and can clone. Can someone share with me some content to be stored on the 4 EPROM slots?
Thanks again.
regards
Fabio
> Il giorno 13 giu 2016, alle ore 02:16, Jeriddian@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> ha scritto:
>
>
> Hi, Fabio,
>
> You are definitely correct in that this is not SCSI. Way too primitive for that. SCSI didn't appear until after 1990 or so. I forgot this was a GRiD 3, therefore it is an old 8 bit machine, running an 8086/8088/Z80 type of processor. As such, the expansion bus likely is not for a hard drive, as most computers of that era didn't even offer one, especially the portables. Therefore it is not MFM at all. Mybad. It is 34 pins, and I initially thought maybe it was for an external floppy drive, but the pins don't seem to match for that. So I don't know what it is for, but I suspect it might be proprietary for some specific external peripheral that GRID made for that unit. GRiD does have a history for that. The 1500' s had such a proprietary 25 pin DB connector for its external peripherals. Past that, I don't know. Good Luck.
>
> Phil
>
>
Date: 28 Jun 2016 10:58:50 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hello all
Does anyone know the type of Eprom the Gridcase 1520 takes? Would an M27C4001 sixteen bit rom work? Also what type of hard drive enclosure would be necessary for the Connor hard drives? I have been unsuccessful in low level formatting them in my grid, even following all of the different procedures for debug, FDISK still couldn't find the disk. Would an IDE PATA external hard drive enclosure work?
Thanks
Joshua
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:30:10 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Joshua,My Grid's are in storage, so I have to do this from memory. But the EPROMs are 8 bit (from memory) 27C64's. They're used in an Odd/Even (or Low/High) byte arrangement. One EPROM holds the lower 8 bits and the other EPROM holds the upper 8 bits to make up the 16 bit word.I think a 16 bit chip *could* work, but it would take running jumpers from the vacant EPROM socket to the populated socket. Additionally, the pinouts would have to be compared to make sure the other control signals end up at the correct pins.I am not sure what you mean by "hard drive enclosure."And no, FDISK/external IDE won't work.We're not 100% sure on the communication exchange. But it appears that the BIOS queries the hard drive to determine the hard drive type. If the hard drive is not one of the HD's in the EPROMs list, there will not be communication to the HD. It is more than just editing the list and entering the CHS (Cylinder, Head, Sector) information in to the EPROM. We do not know what is preventing communication with other older drives. It seems only a handful of Conner drives are supported.If you have any information, a posting it here would be appreciated. :)Thanks,-Shawn
From: "joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 1:58 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
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Hello all
Does anyone know the type of Eprom the Gridcase 1520 takes? Would an M27C4001 sixteen bit rom work? Also what type of hard drive enclosure would be necessary for the Connor hard drives? I have been unsuccessful in low level formatting them in my grid, even following all of the different procedures for debug, FDISK still couldn't find the disk. Would an IDE PATA external hard drive enclosure work?
Thanks
Joshua
Date: 28 Jun 2016 12:43:02 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Thank you for the info.
I was just wondering if anyone had tried hooking up a Conner hard drive onto a modern PATA to usb converter to format the drive from a modern computer. Those sixteen bit Eproms that I was telling you about fit the actual slots in the front of the 1520, but when I inserted a couple of blank ones just to test, the computer just failed to turn on. I am just a bit frustrated that I can't seem to get anything bigger than a 720 kb floppy onto the Grid. If I even insert my 720kb floppy disk into my modern computer, windows corrupts it. So I used a 1999 Sony with windows 98 to transfer everything, which of course just died. I also tried a virtual windows 3.1 machine which also failed to read the disks as it has to use the host machines drive. Do you have any advice?
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:18:21 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Josh:>I was just wondering if anyone had tried hooking up a Conner hard drive onto a modern PATA to usb converter to format the drive from a modern computer.
I did it a while ago. I think I had to fall back to Win98 machine in order for the drive to be seen by Windows.
>the computer just failed to turn on.If they're blank, the laptop is just going to sit there and look at you. It can't do anything without a BIOS load. If you saw no lights and it looked dead, my guess is the power supply voltage was shorted. I'm sure the IC pinouts are totally different.
>I am just a bit frustrated that I can't seem to get anything bigger than a 720 kb floppy onto the Grid.My 1520 will read and write 1.44M floppies.If you mean that you can't see a larger hard drive, yeah, I feel your pain. There is a limit due to only having 16 bits. But we've tried using older, non-Conner hard drives, and larger Conners. We can't seem to get past 100 MB Conner drives.
>Do you have any advice?I'm not sure what you're trying to do? Transfer the data off of the floppies? If you have a real floppy drive (vs. a 'fake' USB drive) you might try going to bootdisk.com and downloading an image to boot. Then copy the floppies to a hard drive.I hope that helps,-Shawn From: "joshuaparkour@yahoo.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
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Thank you for the info.I was just wondering if anyone had tried hooking up a Conner hard drive onto a modern PATA to usb converter to format the drive from a modern computer. Those sixteen bit Eproms that I was telling you about fit the actual slots in the front of the 1520, but when I inserted a couple of blank ones just to test, the computer just failed to turn on. I am just a bit frustrated that I can't seem to get anything bigger than a 720 kb floppy onto the Grid. If I even insert my 720kb floppy disk into my modern computer, windows corrupts it. So I used a 1999 Sony with windows 98 to transfer everything, which of course just died. I also tried a virtual windows 3.1 machine which also failed to read the disks as it has to use the host machines drive. Do you have any advice?
Date: 28 Jun 2016 13:37:02 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Thank you for the info and your quick response. The computer failed to turn on when I plugged the Eproms I told you about into it. However it turned on when I removed those Eproms. My grid 1520 doesn't read 1.44 mb floppies, could the drive be a different model from yours? The pain is really the problem of the modern computer corrupting the 720kb floppy every time it is inserted. Right now the computer reads the floppy but just sits there with the floppy drive on and not much else happening. I think the disk is corrupt but I have no way to check it without my 1999 Sony. I was just wondering if their was a workaround way to get my modern computer to read a 720kb floppy on an external usb floppy drive.
Thank you for your help.
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:47:13 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
I have successfully read the 720K floppies from my GRiD in a modern
computer, without corruption, using an external USB floppy drive. I
don't let Windows try to "fix" the floppy because I know there isn't
anything wrong with it, but as I recall, Windows wants to do something
to it. There are different USB floppy drives available like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-External-Floppy-Drive-FL-UDRV/dp/B00E9MD700/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467146579&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+floppy+drive
I have used this on a Windows 7 64-bit system without a problem.
The floppy drive on the GRiD is just a 720K. Later floppies and
drives were able to accept 1.4M and you can tell the difference by the
number of write-protect windows on the floppy.
A 720K floppy only has ONE write-protect window and a tab that can
slide back and forth to write-protect the drive.
A 1.4M floppy has TWO windows, only one of which has the write-protect slider.
If all you have are 1.4M floppies with the two windows, you CAN use
them in your GRiD, and you can get Windows to format them for you as
720K but Windows will complain. The easy thing to do is simply tape
over the extra window on the floppy, then it will appear to be a 720K
floppy.
I can probably help with floppy questions, but I can't help you out
with the hard drive.
Asa Jay
Quoting "joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
<RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>:
> Thank you for the info.
> I was just wondering if anyone had tried hooking up a Conner hard
> drive onto a modern PATA to usb converter to format the drive from a
> modern computer. Those sixteen bit Eproms that I was telling you
> about fit the actual slots in the front of the 1520, but when I
> inserted a couple of blank ones just to test, the computer just
> failed to turn on. I am just a bit frustrated that I can't seem to
> get anything bigger than a 720 kb floppy onto the Grid. If I even
> insert my 720kb floppy disk into my modern computer, windows
> corrupts it. So I used a 1999 Sony with windows 98 to transfer
> everything, which of course just died. I also tried a virtual
> windows 3.1 machine which also failed to read the disks as it has to
> use the host machines drive. Do you have any advice?
--
Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
******************************************************
http://www.w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 17:02:57 -0400
From: shawn
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Josh,
I have a USB floppy drive.
Perhaps that might help. If you want to buy one, you might want to see if a local computer store might have one. Of course, there's always ebay and Amazon. If you just gotta have it now, there is always Best Buy. But, of course, the prices are high.
Good luck,
-Shawn
-------- Original message --------
From: "joshuaparkour@yahoo.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Date:06/28/2016 16:37 (GMT-05:00)
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
Thank you for the info and your quick response. The computer failed to turn on when I plugged the Eproms I told you about into it. However it turned on when I removed those Eproms. My grid 1520 doesn't read 1.44 mb floppies, could the drive be a different model from yours? The pain is really the problem of the modern computer corrupting the 720kb floppy every time it is inserted. Right now the computer reads the floppy but just sits there with the floppy drive on and not much else happening. I think the disk is corrupt but I have no way to check it without my 1999 Sony. I was just wondering if their was a workaround way to get my modern computer to read a 720kb floppy on an external usb floppy drive.
Thank you for your help.
Date: 28 Jun 2016 14:08:40 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
Thanks
So it is most likely the usb floppy drive that I am using that is at fault? It reads and writes 1.4mb disks fine. My grid just fails to read the 720kb disks that my usb drive writes to.
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 14:10:44 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
By the way.
A GRiD 729K drive will "see" a 1.4M floppy as a 720K floppy, NOT a
1.4M floppy even if it has two windows on it. Therefore, if you
format and use a 1.4M floppy in a GRiD as a 720K floppy, then take it
to your Windows computer, WITHOUT taping shut the extra window on
floppy case.... Windows will have a fit and that might be your
problem... just guessing here mind you.
Asa Jay
Quoting "joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
<RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>:
> Thank you for the info and your quick response. The computer failed
> to turn on when I plugged the Eproms I told you about into it.
> However it turned on when I removed those Eproms. My grid 1520
> doesn't read 1.44 mb floppies, could the drive be a different model
> from yours? The pain is really the problem of the modern computer
> corrupting the 720kb floppy every time it is inserted. Right now the
> computer reads the floppy but just sits there with the floppy drive
> on and not much else happening. I think the disk is corrupt but I
> have no way to check it without my 1999 Sony. I was just wondering
> if their was a workaround way to get my modern computer to read a
> 720kb floppy on an external usb floppy drive.
>
>
> Thank you for your help.
--
Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
******************************************************
http://www.w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:13:29 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Clarification
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I made a mistake and I wanted to clarify something.
>>Do you have any advice?>I'm not sure what you're trying to do? Transfer the data off of the floppies? If you have a real floppy drive (vs. a 'fake' USB drive) you might try going to >bootdisk.com and downloading an image to boot. Then copy the floppies to a hard drive.
I wanted to say that if you have a USB floppy drive, and you plug it in to your computer, as Asa Jay pointed out, you should be able to read and write to the floppy disk.There is no need to go to early version of Windows.
Sorry for the confusion,-Shawn
Date: 28 Jun 2016 14:15:55 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
Whenever I try that I get a disk error until I tape the hole, then I get the same problem that I have been having.
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 14:21:23 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
Can you send a quick photo of the floppy you are trying to read?
Can you tell us exactly what operating system you are using (Win 7,
32-bit as an example)
What brand of external USB/Floppy drive are you using?
Does the drive show up in File Manager?
Can you get a screen capture of any error message?
Post all here and maybe we can help more.
Thank you,
Asa Jay
Quoting "joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
<RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>:
> Whenever I try that I get a disk error until I tape the hole, then I
> get the same problem that I have been having.
--
Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
******************************************************
http://www.w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 14:32:00 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
Sorry... follow up questions...
Does that floppy -work- in the GRiD?
What are you specifically trying to do with the floppy?
Format it for the GRiD?
Read files from it?
Other?
Thanks
Asa Jay
Quoting "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
<RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>:
> Can you send a quick photo of the floppy you are trying to read?
> Can you tell us exactly what operating system you are using (Win 7,
> 32-bit as an example)
> What brand of external USB/Floppy drive are you using?
> Does the drive show up in File Manager?
> Can you get a screen capture of any error message?
>
> Post all here and maybe we can help more.
> Thank you,
> Asa Jay
>
>
> Quoting "joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
> <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>:
>
>> Whenever I try that I get a disk error until I tape the hole, then I
>> get the same problem that I have been having.
>
>
> --
> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
> ******************************************************
> http://www.w7tsc.org
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
--
Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
******************************************************
http://www.w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
Date: 28 Jun 2016 14:37:16 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=utf-8
I am trying to read files from it to boot my grid. The modern computer sees the 720kb floppy but thinks that it is corrupted. When I format it from the modern computer as 720kb via the command prompt and then put it in my grid, I get a disk read error on non bootable disks and with bootable disks the grid just sits their spinning the floppy without booting past bios. I made it bootable with the dos tool in files.
Date: 28 Jun 2016 14:41:26 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=utf-8
My computer is a 64bit windows 10 shuttle SH-87R6 with a Haswell I7 quad core processor with a DYNEX DX-EF101 external floppy drive.
Date: 28 Jun 2016 14:46:27 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=utf-8
I just retried to make a bootable floppy. I formatted a floppy as 720kb with command prompt on my modern computer. Then I used the tool in the files to make it bootable. I put that disk in my grid and this time I got a disk boot error from my grid as it tried to read the disk.
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:00:36 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
Good info. Let me ask more questions.
Will the GRiD boot -without- the floppy in it at all?
Or does it think it needs the floppy for some reason?
If it boots without the floppy, then you can probably use tools on the
computer to format a floppy inserted after boot.
It's been a few months now, but I don't believe the GRiD will boot a
floppy disk that has been formatted with boot files from an operating
system newer than GRiD DOS 3.3 unless it's a newer GRiD that came with
GRiD DOS 5.0.
In other words, you can't format with boot files on a 720K floppy with
a modern OS and get it to work in a GRiD. You'd need to format the
floppy and copy the boot files for GRiD DOS (I think, it's been a few
months).
This is why on my GRiD, I use the on-board disk tools to create new
bootable floppies; I don't recall being able to do it with my Windows
7 computer.
Is that what you're running into? If so, then you need a copy of GRiD
DOS that you can run on a modern computer and use to format floppies
with boot files.
Asa Jay
Quoting "joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
<RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>:
> I am trying to read files from it to boot my grid. The modern
> computer sees the 720kb floppy but thinks that it is corrupted. When
> I format it from the modern computer as 720kb via the command prompt
> and then put it in my grid, I get a disk read error on non bootable
> disks and with bootable disks the grid just sits their spinning the
> floppy without booting past bios. I made it bootable with the dos
> tool in files.
--
Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
******************************************************
http://www.w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
Date: 28 Jun 2016 15:09:32 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Thank you!
That is what I was looking for. My gridcase 1520 will not boot without a bootable floppy. I continually get "disk boot error" trying to boot from the hard disk. I have been able to use windows 98 on my old laptop to create bootable floppys, but that just broke. So the solution would be to boot another computer with dos then create new bootable dos disks from that computer?
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:32:02 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
Sounds like partial success. What tool did you use to make the floppy
bootable?
Asa
Quoting "joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
<RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>:
> I just retried to make a bootable floppy. I formatted a floppy as
> 720kb with command prompt on my modern computer. Then I used the
> tool in the files to make it bootable. I put that disk in my grid
> and this time I got a disk boot error from my grid as it tried to
> read the disk.
--
Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
******************************************************
http://www.w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
Date: 28 Jun 2016 15:33:15 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=utf-8
The dos_33 tool in the files. However I can't get anything to boot from it...
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:45:43 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
Hmmm, I'm not intimately familiar with that tool but I think you're on
the right track. If you used to be able to create bootable floppies
from your Win98 machine, it may be that it's not requiring special
GRiD DOS.
How did you format them with Win98?
Did you use the GUI File Manager to do it, or did you do it via the
command line?
If using the command line to format, are you also sending the format
command with the /S switch telling the OS to put the boot files
necessary onto the floppy? CAUTION, I see with Windows 10 (on my
computer here) that /S has been reassigned to specifying shortname
support(whatever) so it might not do the system files transfer anymore.
SYS A: used to write the system files to a floppy to accomplish the
same thing, but checking on my Windows 10 box I don't see that as
viable either.
You might also try using the DOS 6.2 thing on this page:
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/create-floppy-boot-disk-in-windows/
Another thought. Try DOSBox, I'm not sure you can format a floppy
from it or not, but it might worth a shot. I can try it later tonight
after I get home to perhaps help some more. I can't try it at work
since I don't have a floppy drive (or floppies) at work anymore.
Asa
Quoting "joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
<RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>:
> The dos_33 tool in the files. However I can't get anything to boot from it...
--
Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
******************************************************
http://www.w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
Date: 28 Jun 2016 15:59:26 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Either the windows 98 GUI or it's command prompt worked fine for formatting floppies. I made them bootable with grid dos 3.3 with a dos program that I downloaded from another website. I will upload that program if I can get my windows 98 sony running again. As for dosbox, it seems to access physical drives through the host system and just froze when I tried to format floppies in 720kb form.
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:04:55 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
ACK! That's right... DOSBox is unaware of USB "stuff" so a USB/Floppy
drive won't be recognized. Sorry for leading you down that path, my
mistake. AND that's why booting another OS, like DOS 5.0 or 3.3 or
whatever from a CD ROM won't work.... because it won't have drivers to
recognize the USB/floppy drive.
Complicated isn't it?
I probably have the GRiD DOS 3.x files you need, at home. I won't be
there for a couple more hours though. Someone might have already
uploaded that to the files area of the Yahoo group too, have you
checked there? (I haven't)
Asa
Quoting "joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
<RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>:
> Either the windows 98 GUI or it's command prompt worked fine for
> formatting floppies. I made them bootable with grid dos 3.3 with a
> dos program that I downloaded from another website. I will upload
> that program if I can get my windows 98 sony running again. As for
> dosbox, it seems to access physical drives through the host system
> and just froze when I tried to format floppies in 720kb form.
--
Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
******************************************************
http://www.w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:10:57 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
There is a DOS33.EXE file in the file area of the Yahoo group:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RuGRiD-Laptop/files
It's near the bottom of the list. It claims to build the bootable
floppy for you. You might download that and try it.
Asa
Quoting "Asa Jay Laughton asajay@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
<RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>:
> ACK! That's right... DOSBox is unaware of USB "stuff" so a USB/Floppy
> drive won't be recognized. Sorry for leading you down that path, my
> mistake. AND that's why booting another OS, like DOS 5.0 or 3.3 or
> whatever from a CD ROM won't work.... because it won't have drivers to
> recognize the USB/floppy drive.
>
> Complicated isn't it?
> I probably have the GRiD DOS 3.x files you need, at home. I won't be
> there for a couple more hours though. Someone might have already
> uploaded that to the files area of the Yahoo group too, have you
> checked there? (I haven't)
>
> Asa
>
>
> Quoting "joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
> <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>:
>
>> Either the windows 98 GUI or it's command prompt worked fine for
>> formatting floppies. I made them bootable with grid dos 3.3 with a
>> dos program that I downloaded from another website. I will upload
>> that program if I can get my windows 98 sony running again. As for
>> dosbox, it seems to access physical drives through the host system
>> and just froze when I tried to format floppies in 720kb form.
>
>
> --
> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
> ******************************************************
> http://www.w7tsc.org
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
--
Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
******************************************************
http://www.w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
Date: 28 Jun 2016 16:21:22 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
Thanks, but the file in the files section was the one I was trying to use to make a bootable. It didn't work...
The other program that I used to use was a dos executive that worked perfectly in Windows 98.
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:40:55 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
Gotcha, I'll see what I can dig up when I get home.
Asa
Quoting "joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
<RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>:
> Thanks, but the file in the files section was the one I was trying
> to use to make a bootable. It didn't work...
> The other program that I used to use was a dos executive that worked
> perfectly in Windows 98.
--
Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
******************************************************
http://www.w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
Date: 28 Jun 2016 16:56:46 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=utf-8
With windows 98, I could use the GUI default or the command line to format floppies. It didn't matter as long as I selected 720kb. I used a dos tool that I downloaded from another website to create bootable GRID DOS floppies. If I can fix my windows 98 Sony, I will post that tool to the group.
I have been working with dosbox to try to format and it doesn't seem to be working.
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:08:04 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
I am home now and looking at what I have.
DOSBox won't work to format a floppy in a USB drive as far as I know
because I don't think DOSBox can actually see the floppy as it hangs
on a USB port. If you've figured out how DOSbox can see the floppy,
please let me know, I may have missed something simple and would
enjoy knowing how to do it.
Alright, so next question. How is the dos33.exe tool failing? On
my 64-bit system it appear to fail with a message that it can't read
itself, so my guess is it won't work on a 64-bit system, though I
may be wrong.
Have you had any success during the time it took me to get home?
The next thing I'm looking to do is create a new bootable disk (if I
can) and image it and see if I can use a tool to re-image it to
another floppy.
Hang in there, we'll lick this yet.
Asa
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
http://w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
On 6/28/2016 4:56 PM, joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
Date: 28 Jun 2016 19:14:47 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Yes, the way to get dosbox to see the floppy is to select "devices" in the running system menu. Check the host drive floppy.
When I use the dos 33 tool it says success but when I actually try to boot or view the floppy it shows up as a blank disk.
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:46:29 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
When the dos33 app runs, does it look like it's addressing the
floppy and writing to it?
Once finished, can you see anything on the floppy via DOSbox?
Now you've got me going. I have to step away for a while for a
radio net but will be back later to noodle on this some more. I
have DOSBox installed on my system here and will try to replicate
what you are experiencing.
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
http://w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
On 6/28/2016 7:14 PM, joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7640 / Virus Database: 4613/12512 - Release
Date: 06/28/16
Date: 28 Jun 2016 20:13:39 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
Yes, the host floppy is a: on my system at least. The app really does look like it is writing to it and that disk appears blank on dosbox and the host computer.
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:58:20 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
I'm not certain we are talking about the same DOSBox here, so pardon
my ignorance. Also, at home I'm running a Windows 7 system with the
DOSBox emulator so it might look different than what you have.
I'm referring to a specific DOS emulator called "DOSBox" that you
can download and install from this web site:
https://www.dosbox.com/
When running it, I find that the dos33.exe program can't be run in
DOS mode, so I think we are talking about two different things here
unfortunately.
However, I'm not letting it keep me down.
I don't actually -have- a bootable floppy in my posession, and the
tools on my GRiD only allow me to format a drive, not actually move
the system files to it (unfortunately). So I'm having to work out
something different. It will take me some time but I have some
ideas.
In the meantime, the best bet may be to get your old Win98 system
running. I myself still have a hard drive with Win98 on it, but the
computer I had with the removable drives went kaput a couple years
ago and I've not built a new system to take it.
This sounds like something the community needs so I'm up for making
it happen, but it might take me a few days.
... wait.....
Okay, so this is weird.
I tried a few times to run dos33.exe and it wouldn't work. Now it's
working... go figure.
Alright, so the floppy HAS files on it. So far so good. Now I'm
going to use "Floppy Image.exe" to suck an image from it.
Okay, I now have an IMG file. But the Floppy Image.exe program
won't write to a floppy (apparently) unless it's already formatted.
Now I'm having to format a new 720K disk using a command prompt in
Windows 7 with the following command:
format a: /FS:FAT /F:720
And it's formatted the disk as a 720K floppy (note the extra window
in the drive had to be covered)
Now I'm using the Floppy Image.exe program to write the IMG file to
the newly formatted floppy.
Checking the newly imaged floppy and.... all the files appear to be
there.
So... I'm attaching a zip file to this email (let me know if it
comes through), it has the floppy imager program and the img file I
created. Use the exe to build the image on your floppy.
Note, the floppy must be A:
Make sure that's the drive letter assigned by the operating system.
That's it for me tonight.... Hopefully this works for you.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
http://w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
On 6/28/2016 8:13 PM, joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
Date: 29 Jun 2016 11:57:12 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=utf-8
I formatted the floppy with your command and then used the tool you provided to write to the floppy. Windows thought that the floppy was corrupt after I had done that. I inserted the disk into my grid and "disk boot error" popped up again.
You were right, I was using a different program than you to try to format my floppies. I was using Virtualbox with DOS 6.11 and Windows 3.1. I don't know why I kept referring to it as "Dosbox"
Thank you for all of your help. It appears the only options left are to either burn Eproms with the operating system, which I will do eventually anyway, or get my old windows 98 computer working again.
Joshua
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 13:01:09 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
I'm sorry you're still having trouble. At this point I'm not sure
there is anything else I can offer, except that either the GRiD is
still trying to boot a hard disk or the floppy drive is bad. Or the
Windows system just isn't creating the floppy properly.
On my Win 7 system, it formatted to 720k just fine, then wrote the
image and then I could read it in the USB/floppy drive just fine,
seeing all the necessary DOS files on the floppy using Windows File
Manager (explorer). If your system thinks it's corrupt after going
through all that, all I can think is that Windows 10 has some other
incompatibility, but if it formatted the disk from the command prompt,
I should think it would work.
You -are- leaving the tape over the extra hole after it's all done, right?
I'm at a loss to explain it.
Asa Jay
Quoting "joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
<RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>:
> I formatted the floppy with your command and then used the tool you
> provided to write to the floppy. Windows thought that the floppy was
> corrupt after I had done that. I inserted the disk into my grid and
> "disk boot error" popped up again.
>
>
> You were right, I was using a different program than you to try to
> format my floppies. I was using Virtualbox with DOS 6.11 and Windows
> 3.1. I don't know why I kept referring to it as "Dosbox"
>
>
> Thank you for all of your help. It appears the only options left
> are to either burn Eproms with the operating system, which I will do
> eventually anyway, or get my old windows 98 computer working again.
>
>
> Joshua
--
Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
******************************************************
http://www.w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
Date: 01 Jul 2016 08:18:37 -0700
From: wd8cyv@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms and Hard Drive Enclosures
text/plain; charset=utf-8
noticed some talk about floppy drives
some grids came with 720 some with 1.44
this can cause some confusion
dave
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 15:44:10 -0400
From: Beau Walker
Subject: ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I'm looking for one of these to possibly refurbish. OR has anyone had any
luck simply making a new one out of sheet metal, cells and connectors?
--
Sent from my time machine
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:45:13 -0400
From: shawn
Subject: RE: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Beau, I am not aware of anyone making a replacement battery pack. It is possible, I guess. But, I do not know if anyone has done it.
An option, if you have the original battery pack, is to send it to a Ni-Cad batterty referb house.
Good luck,
-Shawn
-------- Original message --------
From: "Beau Walker arrowrunner@gmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Date:07/05/2016 15:44 (GMT-05:00)
To: rugrid-laptop <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery
I'm looking for one of these to possibly refurbish. OR has anyone had any luck simply making a new one out of sheet metal, cells and connectors?
--
Sent from my time machine
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 16:25:25 -0400
From: Beau Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I do not have a battery pack unfortunately. Are there any good pics of
them? Is the inside just a bundle of nicad batteries?
On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:45 PM, shawn shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] <
RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> Beau, I am not aware of anyone making a replacement battery pack. It is
> possible, I guess. But, I do not know if anyone has done it.
> An option, if you have the original battery pack, is to send it to a
> Ni-Cad batterty referb house.
> Good luck,
> -Shawn
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: "Beau Walker arrowrunner@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
> Date:07/05/2016 15:44 (GMT-05:00)
> To: rugrid-laptop
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery
>
> I'm looking for one of these to possibly refurbish. OR has anyone had any
> luck simply making a new one out of sheet metal, cells and connectors?
>
> --
> Sent from my time machine
>
>
>
--
Sent from my time machine
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 18:18:36 +0200
From: "fabio.gerosa206"
Subject: R: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery
HelloI have refurbished a battery pack for Gridcase 3, yes it is a bundle of 9 Ni-Cd standard battery type SC 1.2V. I found a 2000 mAh on eBay. There is a capacitor or resistor in series. Here a picture.
Inviato da smartphone Samsung Galaxy.
-------- Messaggio originale --------Da: "Beau Walker arrowrunner@gmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> Data: 08/07/16 22:25 (GMT+01:00) A: rugrid-laptop <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> Oggetto: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery
I do not have a battery pack unfortunately. Are there any good pics of them? Is the inside just a bundle of nicad batteries?
On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:45 PM, shawn shawnerz@yahoo.com [RuGRiD-Laptop] <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Beau, I am not aware of anyone making a replacement battery pack. It is possible, I guess. But, I do not know if anyone has done it.An option, if you have the original battery pack, is to send it to a Ni-Cad batterty referb house.Good luck,-Shawn
-------- Original message --------
From: "Beau Walker arrowrunner@gmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
Date:07/05/2016 15:44 (GMT-05:00)
To: rugrid-laptop
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery
I'm looking for one of these to possibly refurbish. OR has anyone had any luck simply making a new one out of sheet metal, cells and connectors?
--
Sent from my time machine
--
Sent from my time machine
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 17:00:45 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: R: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery [1 Attachment]
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Fabio,Thank you very much for the picture.How did you open the pack? Did you use a heat gun, or did you cut it open?
Also, that is is not a capacitor or resistor. It is a thermistor. If the temperature inside the battery gets too hot, it will open. This stops the current flow. It is assumed that the temperature became too hot by a rapid discharge, a shorted cell(s) pulling too much current from the charger, or some other bad condition. For safety, the thermistor opens. This stops the current flow. After a few minutes, it will cool and close again. Thanks,-Shawn
From: "'fabio.gerosa206' fabio.gerosa206@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2016 12:18 PM
Subject: R: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery [1 Attachment]
<!--#yiv8607762018 #yiv8607762018 .yiv8607762018ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;min-height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv8607762018 div.yiv8607762018ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;min-height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv8607762018 div.yiv8607762018photo-title a, #yiv8607762018 div.yiv8607762018photo-title a:active, #yiv8607762018 div.yiv8607762018photo-title a:hover, #yiv8607762018 div.yiv8607762018photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv8607762018 div.yiv8607762018attach-table div.yiv8607762018attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv8607762018 div.yiv8607762018attach-table div.yiv8607762018attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv8607762018 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv8607762018 div.yiv8607762018ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv8607762018 div.yiv8607762018attach-table div.yiv8607762018attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv8607762018 div.yiv8607762018attach-table div.yiv8607762018attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv8607762018 div.yiv8607762018ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv8607762018 --> [Attachment(s) from fabio.gerosa206 included below]
HelloI have refurbished a battery pack for Gridcase 3, yes it is a bundle of 9 Ni-Cd standard battery type SC 1.2V. I found a 2000 mAh on eBay. There is a capacitor or resistor in series. Here a picture.
Inviato da smartphone Samsung Galaxy.
-------- Messaggio originale --------Da: "Beau Walker arrowrunner@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> Data: 08/07/16 22:25 (GMT+01:00) A: rugrid-laptop <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> Oggetto: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery
I do not have a battery pack unfortunately. Are there any good pics of them? Is the inside just a bundle of nicad batteries?
On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:45 PM, shawn shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Beau, I am not aware of anyone making a replacement battery pack. It is possible, I guess. But, I do not know if anyone has done it.An option, if you have the original battery pack, is to send it to a Ni-Cad batterty referb house.Good luck,-Shawn
-------- Original message --------
From: "Beau Walker arrowrunner@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
Date:07/05/2016 15:44 (GMT-05:00)
To: rugrid-laptop
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery
I'm looking for one of these to possibly refurbish. OR has anyone had any luck simply making a new one out of sheet metal, cells and connectors?
--
Sent from my time machine
--
Sent from my time machine
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 20:13:01 +0200
From: "fabio.gerosa206"
Subject: R: Re: R: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery
I had to cut to open since it was really well sealed.Yes thermistor correct!Now glued back. I have to polish it.ThanksFabio
Inviato da smartphone Samsung Galaxy.
-------- Messaggio originale --------Da: "Shawnerz shawnerz@yahoo.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> Data: 10/07/16 19:00 (GMT+01:00) A: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com Oggetto: Re: R: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery
Fabio,Thank you very much for the picture.How did you open the pack? Did you use a heat gun, or did you cut it open?
Also, that is is not a capacitor or resistor. It is a thermistor. If the temperature inside the battery gets too hot, it will open. This stops the current flow. It is assumed that the temperature became too hot by a rapid discharge, a shorted cell(s) pulling too much current from the charger, or some other bad condition. For safety, the thermistor opens. This stops the current flow. After a few minutes, it will cool and close again. Thanks,-Shawn
From: "'fabio.gerosa206' fabio.gerosa206@tiscali.it [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2016 12:18 PM
Subject: R: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery [1 Attachment]
[Attachment(s) from fabio.gerosa206 included below]
HelloI have refurbished a battery pack for Gridcase 3, yes it is a bundle of 9 Ni-Cd standard battery type SC 1.2V. I found a 2000 mAh on eBay. There is a capacitor or resistor in series. Here a picture.
Inviato da smartphone Samsung Galaxy.
-------- Messaggio originale --------Da: "Beau Walker arrowrunner@gmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> Data: 08/07/16 22:25 (GMT+01:00) A: rugrid-laptop <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> Oggetto: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery
I do not have a battery pack unfortunately. Are there any good pics of them? Is the inside just a bundle of nicad batteries?
On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:45 PM, shawn shawnerz@yahoo.com [RuGRiD-Laptop] <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Beau, I am not aware of anyone making a replacement battery pack. It is possible, I guess. But, I do not know if anyone has done it.An option, if you have the original battery pack, is to send it to a Ni-Cad batterty referb house.Good luck,-Shawn
-------- Original message --------
From: "Beau Walker arrowrunner@gmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]"
Date:07/05/2016 15:44 (GMT-05:00)
To: rugrid-laptop
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ISO Gridcase 1520 Battery
I'm looking for one of these to possibly refurbish. OR has anyone had any luck simply making a new one out of sheet metal, cells and connectors?
--
Sent from my time machine
--
Sent from my time machine
Date: 10 Jul 2016 14:49:20 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: grid server manuals
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi does anyone have any documentation for the grid server 1701?
Thanks
Date: 11 Jul 2016 03:14:35 -0700
From: gerosa_fabio@...
Subject: Gridcase 3 plasma gas display replacement
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hello,
I am looking for a replacement for my Gridcase3 broken display (some ICs are dead).
My guess it is the same for the Compass 1139.
Have you any clue for me? Anyone with a datasheet of the display to try to fix it?
Part number is PD640G200B from NEC.
I have found some references on the web, such as this one below, but I got no answer back
PD640G200B-Sharp NEC AUO Hitachi KYOCERA lcd panel and touch screen Hmi http://www.yxlcds.com/search/index.html?name=PD640G200B
PD640G200B-Sharp NEC AUO Hitachi KYOCERA lcd panel and touch screen Hmi http://www.yxlcds.com/search/index.html?name=PD640G200B Shenzhen Y&X Electronic Co., Ltd are one of the largest LCD sources for many years, we are specialized in supplying LCDs and parts for PDA, Car Monitor, Industrail devices, PSP, GPS, Projector, Scanner, Medical equipment, Video door bell, such as high-tech devices, etc...
View on www.yxlcds.com http://www.yxlcds.com/search/index.html?name=PD640G200B
Preview by Yahoo
Thanks
Fabio
Date: 11 Jul 2016 03:28:52 -0700
From: gerosa_fabio@...
Subject: Re: Grid Donation
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hello, is still anything for the Gridcase 3 available?
Thank you!
Regards,
Fabio
Date: 11 Jul 2016 05:43:04 -0700
From: gerosa_fabio@...
Subject: 3D printed carriers for Molex socket ROM
I have managed 3d printing the carriers which are obsolete and almost impossible to be find.
If anyone is interested Ican share the model file.
Attached a picture of the result. I have tested them and working flawless.
Regards,
Fabio
Date: 11 Jul 2016 18:49:33 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: Gridcase 3 plasma gas display replacement
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi, the screen is not the same as a 1139 its a 512x256 EL display
you need a 640 x 200 plasma ,there are some 640 x 400 displays around for the 1520/1530 but i doubt they are compatible plus you would need a different bezel.
keep searching china and ebay for a dead unit, i have that salt water damaged grid 3 but there was not much salvageable other than the case.
Grant
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 02:27:58 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 3D printed carriers for Molex socket ROM [1 Attachment]
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Great work, Fabio! :)-Shawn
From: "gerosa_fabio@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 8:43 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 3D printed carriers for Molex socket ROM [1 Attachment]
<!--#yiv7223780329 #yiv7223780329 .yiv7223780329ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;min-height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv7223780329 div.yiv7223780329ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;min-height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv7223780329 div.yiv7223780329photo-title a, #yiv7223780329 div.yiv7223780329photo-title a:active, #yiv7223780329 div.yiv7223780329photo-title a:hover, #yiv7223780329 div.yiv7223780329photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv7223780329 div.yiv7223780329attach-table div.yiv7223780329attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv7223780329 div.yiv7223780329attach-table div.yiv7223780329attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv7223780329 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv7223780329 div.yiv7223780329ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv7223780329 div.yiv7223780329attach-table div.yiv7223780329attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv7223780329 div.yiv7223780329attach-table div.yiv7223780329attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv7223780329 div.yiv7223780329ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv7223780329 --> <!--#yiv7223780329 #yiv7223780329ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv7223780329 #yiv7223780329ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv7223780329 #yiv7223780329ygrp-mkp #yiv7223780329hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv7223780329 #yiv7223780329ygrp-mkp #yiv7223780329ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv7223780329 #yiv7223780329ygrp-mkp .yiv7223780329ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv7223780329 #yiv7223780329ygrp-mkp .yiv7223780329ad p {margin:0;}#yiv7223780329 #yiv7223780329ygrp-mkp .yiv7223780329ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}-->[Attachment(s) from gerosa_fabio@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] included below]
I have managed 3d printing the carriers which are obsolete and almost impossible to be find.If anyone is interested Ican share the model file.Attached a picture of the result. I have tested them and working flawless.
Regards,Fabio
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 02:29:13 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Grid Donation
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I'm sorry. I do not know of any sources for parts.-Shawn
From: "gerosa_fabio@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 6:28 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Grid Donation
<!--#yiv9447251469 #yiv9447251469 .yiv9447251469ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;min-height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv9447251469 div.yiv9447251469ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;min-height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv9447251469 div.yiv9447251469photo-title a, #yiv9447251469 div.yiv9447251469photo-title a:active, #yiv9447251469 div.yiv9447251469photo-title a:hover, #yiv9447251469 div.yiv9447251469photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9447251469 div.yiv9447251469attach-table div.yiv9447251469attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv9447251469 div.yiv9447251469attach-table div.yiv9447251469attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv9447251469 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv9447251469 div.yiv9447251469ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv9447251469 div.yiv9447251469attach-table div.yiv9447251469attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9447251469 div.yiv9447251469attach-table div.yiv9447251469attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv9447251469 div.yiv9447251469ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv9447251469 --> <!--#yiv9447251469 #yiv9447251469ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv9447251469 #yiv9447251469ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv9447251469 #yiv9447251469ygrp-mkp #yiv9447251469hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv9447251469 #yiv9447251469ygrp-mkp #yiv9447251469ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv9447251469 #yiv9447251469ygrp-mkp .yiv9447251469ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv9447251469 #yiv9447251469ygrp-mkp .yiv9447251469ad p {margin:0;}#yiv9447251469 #yiv9447251469ygrp-mkp .yiv9447251469ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}-->
Hello, is still anything for the Gridcase 3 available?
Thank you!Regards,
Fabio
Date: 18 Jul 2016 20:17:39 -0700
From: jim.leamer@...
Subject: Gridcase3 for sale
text/plain; charset=utf-8
About a year ago I bought a Gridcase3 and was hoping to restore it. I joined this group and enjoyed watching the conversations...I am old enough to understand some of the technical talk from the good old days.
But I realized that the Grid project was not getting any attention and that probably wouldn't change. So I listed it on EBay. I am sorry, but I should have mentioned it here first. It would be great if someone from this group could get it and make it fully operational.
Jim
Date: 22 Jul 2016 12:57:12 -0700
From: athan.dejong@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 3D printed carriers for Molex socket ROM [1 Attachment]
text/plain; charset=utf-8
HI
Nice work :)
it would be really great if you share the file ...
Regards,
athan
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 06:39:06 +0000 (UTC)
From: Gene Dawson
Subject: Re: Gridcase3 for sale
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Didn't see it listed or sold..What kind of attention did you need? I'm sure someone here could help steer you in the right direction..
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 08:29:45 -0400
From: Jim Leamer
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Gridcase3 for sale
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Gene,
I just don't have the time right now. I think it just needs an power
adapter and boot disk.
The EBay listing ends tonight and here is the link.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gridcase3-Computer-/232017149974?hash=item36054cc016:g:CUUAAOSwARZXjDTg
Thanks for the offer to help.
Jim
On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 2:39 AM, Gene Dawson bigbrassring@...
[RuGRiD-Laptop] <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> Didn't see it listed or sold..
> What kind of attention did you need? I'm sure someone here could help
> steer you in the right direction..
>
>
>
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 14:50:22 +0200
From: "fabio.gerosa206"
Subject: R: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Gridcase3 for sale
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hello JimCan you PLEASE incudes Italy to the shipping address?Please.Thank youRegardsFabio
Inviato da smartphone Samsung Galaxy.
-------- Messaggio originale --------Da: "Jim Leamer jim.leamer@gmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> Data: 24/07/16 14:29 (GMT+01:00) A: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com Oggetto: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Gridcase3 for sale
Gene,
I just don't have the time right now. I think it just needs an power adapter and boot disk.
The EBay listing ends tonight and here is the link.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gridcase3-Computer-/232017149974?hash=item36054cc016:g:CUUAAOSwARZXjDTg
Thanks for the offer to help.
Jim
On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 2:39 AM, Gene Dawson bigbrassring@yahoo.com [RuGRiD-Laptop] <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Didn't see it listed or sold..What kind of attention did you need? I'm sure someone here could help steer you in the right direction..
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 03:07:52 +0000 (UTC)
From: Gene Dawson
Subject: Re: Gridcase3 for sale
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Drats, I missed the grid3 auction by an hour.
Well, Congrats to the new owner. The soft bag - if it's original - that's a hard to find.Good luck, and get 'er done. There's never enough time, is there? :)
Regards, Gene
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 23:51:36 -0400
From: Jim Leamer
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Gridcase3 for sale
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Sorry about that. I should have given more notice.
I hate to ruin your day, but the carrying bag was original. It went for
$102. Is that what you would have expected?
Jim
On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 11:07 PM, Gene Dawson bigbrassring@...
[RuGRiD-Laptop] <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> Drats, I missed the grid3 auction by an hour.
> Well, Congrats to the new owner. The soft bag - if it's original - that's
> a hard to find.
> Good luck, and get 'er done. There's never enough time, is there? :)
>
> Regards, Gene
>
>
>
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 20:23:12 +0200
From: "fabio.gerosa206"
Subject: R: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 3D printed carriers for Molex socket ROM
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hello AthanHere is the STL file ready to be 3D printed. My suggestion is print in ABS since the PLA is very weak.Let me know and see your results.Cheers,Fabio
Inviato da smartphone Samsung Galaxy.
-------- Messaggio originale --------Da: "athan.dejong@yahoo.fr [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> Data: 22/07/16 21:57 (GMT+01:00) A: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com Oggetto: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 3D printed carriers for Molex socket ROM
HI
Nice work :)
it would be really great if you share the file ...
Regards,
athan
Date: 29 Jul 2016 10:59:02 -0700
From: bigbrassring@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Gridcase3 for sale
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi Jim,
Well, maybe what I might expect I guess. I'd guess it didn't have a hard drive, but that could have been resolved, tho not an easy task. I was working on faking an SSD replacement, but that wouldn't be original, would it? Nor a power supply as I understood, also resolvable (I have about 20 of them). The bag, yeah - those would be hard to come by but it sounds as if it was well worn. Of course, that also means someone loved the computer a lot.
Yeah, sorry I missed the auction. On to bigger projects for you, and here's hoping you get what you're looking for most. :)
Best Regards, Gene
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 16:28:03 -0400
From: Jim Leamer
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Gridcase3 for sale
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Gene,
Thanks for your note. I just hope the guy who got it keeps it somewhere
near original. He lives in the Bay area and I hope he gets in touch with
this group
Thanks again
Jim
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 1:59 PM, bigbrassring@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] <
RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Jim,
> Well, maybe what I might expect I guess. I'd guess it didn't have a hard
> drive, but that could have been resolved, tho not an easy task. I was
> working on faking an SSD replacement, but that wouldn't be original, would
> it? Nor a power supply as I understood, also resolvable (I have about 20
> of them). The bag, yeah - those would be hard to come by but it sounds as
> if it was well worn. Of course, that also means someone loved the computer
> a lot.
>
> Yeah, sorry I missed the auction. On to bigger projects for you, and
> here's hoping you get what you're looking for most. :)
>
> Best Regards, Gene
>
>
Date: 05 Aug 2016 15:59:54 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Eproms
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Would this eprom work in my gridcase 1520?
It says that the are an M27C64A eprom but it only has 28 pins.
My gridcase has a similar layout of pins but has 32 holes for them, not 28.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-M27C64A-10F1-M27C64A-IC-EPROM-UV-64KBIT-100NS-28CDIP-NEW-GOOD-QUALITY-/291548993048?hash=item43e1ac9618:g:IwQAAOSwU9xUMJFy http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-M27C64A-10F1-M27C64A-IC-EPROM-UV-64KBIT-100NS-28CDIP-NEW-GOOD-QUALITY-/291548993048?hash=item43e1ac9618:g:IwQAAOSwU9xUMJFy
Thank you guys for all of your help.
I managed the get the floppy issue fixed by managing to get my old Sony running again.
Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2016 09:21:04 +0200
From: "fabio.gerosa206"
Subject: R: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms
text/plain; charset=utf-8
HiIn my GridCase3 I installed four M27C512. They are 64 KB each.M27C64 may works but are only 8KB.Both are 28 pins
Inviato da smartphone Samsung Galaxy.
-------- Messaggio originale --------Da: "joshuaparkour@yahoo.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> Data: 06/08/16 00:59 (GMT+01:00) A: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com Oggetto: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Eproms
Would this eprom work in my gridcase 1520?It says that the are an M27C64A eprom but it only has 28 pins.My gridcase has a similar layout of pins but has 32 holes for them, not 28.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-M27C64A-10F1-M27C64A-IC-EPROM-UV-64KBIT-100NS-28CDIP-NEW-GOOD-QUALITY-/291548993048?hash=item43e1ac9618:g:IwQAAOSwU9xUMJFy
Thank you guys for all of your help.
I managed the get the floppy issue fixed by managing to get my old Sony running again.
Date: 06 Aug 2016 20:00:40 -0700
From: touchetek@...
Subject: GRiD on Chronicals
text/plain; charset=utf-8
The Computer Chronicles - Tandy/Radio Shack Computers (1991) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb5JGdKOHlA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb5JGdKOHlA
The Computer Chronicles - Tandy/Radio Shack Compu... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb5JGdKOHlA Special thanks to archive.org for hosting these episodes. Downloads of all these episodes and more can be found at: http://archive.org/details/computerchroni...
View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb5JGdKOHlA
Preview by Yahoo
GRiD towards the end.
Date: 06 Aug 2016 08:33:56 -0700
From: Jeriddian@...
Subject: Re: Eproms
text/plain; charset=utf-8
The 1500 series GRiD's use 32 pin chips which are 128Kb chips. The 64 Kb 28 pin chips cannot be used, and trying to use 8Kb chips would probably be nonproductive.
Phil
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 03:29:54 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD on Chronicals
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Thanks for posting. I finally got around to watching this episode.I wonder how that Sharp/Apple/PocketMac partnership worked out? LOLAnd, of course, Grid eventually did integrate the 386SX in to the 1550. I have 1 or 2 1550SX's.And thanks Datastorm. Where would I be without ProcommPlus? Oh yeah, I'd have several hours per day of my life back during the 90's. I spent a lot of time on BBS-es. ;-)
Thanks again for posting. :)-Shawn
From: "touchetek@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2016 11:00 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD on Chronicals
<!--#yiv1961888964 #yiv1961888964 .yiv1961888964ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;min-height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv1961888964 div.yiv1961888964ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;min-height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv1961888964 div.yiv1961888964photo-title a, #yiv1961888964 div.yiv1961888964photo-title a:active, #yiv1961888964 div.yiv1961888964photo-title a:hover, #yiv1961888964 div.yiv1961888964photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv1961888964 div.yiv1961888964attach-table div.yiv1961888964attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv1961888964 div.yiv1961888964attach-table div.yiv1961888964attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv1961888964 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv1961888964 div.yiv1961888964ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv1961888964 div.yiv1961888964attach-table div.yiv1961888964attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv1961888964 div.yiv1961888964attach-table div.yiv1961888964attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv1961888964 div.yiv1961888964ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv1961888964 --> <!--#yiv1961888964 #yiv1961888964ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv1961888964 #yiv1961888964ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv1961888964 #yiv1961888964ygrp-mkp #yiv1961888964hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv1961888964 #yiv1961888964ygrp-mkp #yiv1961888964ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv1961888964 #yiv1961888964ygrp-mkp .yiv1961888964ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv1961888964 #yiv1961888964ygrp-mkp .yiv1961888964ad p {margin:0;}#yiv1961888964 #yiv1961888964ygrp-mkp .yiv1961888964ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}-->
The Computer Chronicles - Tandy/Radio Shack Computers (1991)
| |
| | | | The Computer Chronicles - Tandy/Radio Shack Compu... Special thanks to archive.org for hosting these episodes. Downloads of all these episodes and more can be found at: http://archive.org/details/computerchroni... | |
| View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
GRiD towards the end.
Date: 05 Aug 2016 19:58:50 -0700
From: Jeriddian@...
Subject: Re: Eproms
Hi, Joshua,
I'm sorry, but no, those chips won't work. Those are 64Kb chips, and the sockets are designed for 128Kb chips. That's why there are four more pins that are required, I think. They should be 32 pin chips.
Sincerely,
Phil
Date: 09 Aug 2016 11:38:04 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: Eproms
I'm pretty sure they take both 28 and 32 pin chips
Date: 09 Aug 2016 21:31:49 -0700
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: Eproms
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Josh, Are you trying to use these EPROMS for the BIOS (internal to the Grid), or for the operating system (U25/U26 under the lid by the keyboard)?
For the operating system, they should work. But if you're going to use them for the BIOS, they won't fit.
Good luck,
-Shawn
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 04:49:11 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] (unknown)
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Anthan,I will use Google translate because I do not speak French. The results in French will probably be very funny. :) Here goes:
Tout d'abord, je tiens à présenter mes excuses. Je nettoyais les anciens emails et je l'ai vu celui-ci. Je ne me souviens pas si je répondu. Je suppose que je ne réponds pas parce que je supprime généralement des e-mails que je répondre.Je ne suis pas au courant des disques de données nécessaires pour faire fonctionner le logiciel CODES. Votre e-mail est la première fois que je l'ai entendu dire que le severice postal américain utilisé les ordinateurs de la grille.J'ai utilisé Google pour rechercher "système de côte porteur de ville» et trouvé ceci: https://www.uspsoig.gov/sites/default/files/document-library-files/2015/hr-ma-15-001.pdfBien sûr, il est en anglais. Pardon.Si # 3 être «DOIS» et non pas «ODIS»?Je serais intéressé à copier les EPROM de démarrage. Je peux fournir mon adresse si vous êtes prêt à les envoyer.Bonne chance à toi. Encore une fois, je regrette de ne pas répondre plus tôt.
Original text:First, I want to apologize. I was cleaning out old emails and I saw this one. I do not remember if I responded. My guess is I did not respond because I usually delete emails that I respond to.I am not aware of the data disks needed to operate the CODES software. Your email is the first time I have heard that the US postal severice used Grid computers.I used Google to search "city carrier coast system" and found this: https://www.uspsoig.gov/sites/default/files/document-library-files/2015/hr-ma-15-001.pdfOf course, it is in English. Sorry.Should #3 be 'DOIS" and not 'ODIS"?I would be interested in copying the boot EPROMs. I can provide my address if you are willing to send them.Good luck to you. Again, I apologize for not responding sooner.-Shawn
From: Athan DE JONG <athan.dejong@yahoo.fr>
To: "rugrid-laptop@yahoogroups.com" <rugrid-laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 7:49 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] (unknown)
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HI everybody
My name is athan,I Collect vintage computers for years now most of them are commodors & apples.
I always dreamed about having a grid an finaly managed to get one.
Now that i'm the happy owner of a gridcase 3 and need some help to get it work.
When i start the grid on the Eprom placed in the external rom socket a program called "CODES (United stats postal service)" starts up.
A 3 pages menu shows up :
1 IOCS
2RPW
3ODIS
4 city carrier coast system ......
But i do not own the floppys containig this softs. May be someone out there can help with some disk IMG ?
Any way i am happy to be here in the group, and hope to share some vintage computing hours :)
To the moderator: thank you for approving my request to join the group.
Kind regards , athan
Date: 23 Aug 2016 11:44:23 -0700
From: joshuaparkour@...
Subject: Re: Eproms
text/plain; charset=utf-8
I was trying to use them for the OS, so those 28 pin chips would work?
Yes under the lid by the keyboard.
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 19:46:47 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Eproms
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Josh,
I believe they will work. I've never burned any EPROMs for those sockets. As they say in car commercials, "You mileage may vary."You can always try it out and see what happens. :)Be sure you let us know how it goes.
Thanks,
-Shawn
From: "joshuaparkour@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 2:44 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Eproms
<!--#yiv3911078791 #yiv3911078791 .yiv3911078791ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;min-height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv3911078791 div.yiv3911078791ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;min-height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv3911078791 div.yiv3911078791photo-title a, #yiv3911078791 div.yiv3911078791photo-title a:active, #yiv3911078791 div.yiv3911078791photo-title a:hover, #yiv3911078791 div.yiv3911078791photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3911078791 div.yiv3911078791attach-table div.yiv3911078791attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv3911078791 div.yiv3911078791attach-table div.yiv3911078791attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv3911078791 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv3911078791 div.yiv3911078791ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv3911078791 div.yiv3911078791attach-table div.yiv3911078791attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3911078791 div.yiv3911078791attach-table div.yiv3911078791attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv3911078791 div.yiv3911078791ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv3911078791 --> <!--#yiv3911078791 #yiv3911078791ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv3911078791 #yiv3911078791ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv3911078791 #yiv3911078791ygrp-mkp #yiv3911078791hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv3911078791 #yiv3911078791ygrp-mkp #yiv3911078791ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv3911078791 #yiv3911078791ygrp-mkp .yiv3911078791ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv3911078791 #yiv3911078791ygrp-mkp .yiv3911078791ad p {margin:0;}#yiv3911078791 #yiv3911078791ygrp-mkp .yiv3911078791ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}-->
I was trying to use them for the OS, so those 28 pin chips would work?
Yes under the lid by the keyboard.
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 23:34:50 -0700
From: Jack Fischer
Subject: Membership
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hey. How do I join and see things? It says Welcome but everytime i go to
look - it says i'm not a member. Help!
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 07:09:49 -0400
From: shawn
Subject: RE: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Membership
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hello Jack and welcome to the group.
I'm not sure what you're seeing and why you're seeing it. But, you are a member of the group and you did successfully send an email to everyone. Welcome.
-Shawn
-------- Original message --------
From: "Jack Fischer jackmav3rik@gmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Date:08/24/2016 02:34 (GMT-05:00)
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Membership
Hey. How do I join and see things? It says Welcome but everytime i go to look - it says i'm not a member. Help!
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 23:19:31 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ian Finder
Subject: Looking to buy any GRiD in any condition except LCD-based.
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
All plasma, and EL welcome for my purpose, and willing to attempt repair.Please let me know if you have one.
I also have a 1520 plasma screen, so if you have a 1520 with a broken display that is perfect.
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 01:41:41 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: 1 MB SIPP Placement?
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
All,I found some 1 MB, 30 pin SIPP's on eBay. I brought 4 of them. Actually, I was impressed that they were cheap and there were two or 3 sellers.They arrived and I put them in to my 1520. My 1520 beeps the 1-3-3 error code on power up.I put the original 256 kb SIPP's in to the 1520, and everything is fine.
Using the 1MB SIPPs, I tried locating them in different memory sockets. But, I could never make the 1520 boot with 1 MB SIPPs.It is possible that the SIPPs are defective. Or, there is something other performance issue that is keeping them from working. The service manual says the 1520 will accept 1 MB SIPPs. But I can't find where it lists which slots they must go in to.Does anyone run their Grid with 1 MB SIPPs? If so, which slots are they installed in?Thanks,-Shawn
Date: 28 Aug 2016 19:11:52 -0700
From: Jeriddian@...
Subject: Re: 1 MB SIPP Placement?
text/plain; charset=utf-8
HI, Shawn,
The usual placement for the RAM SIPP's when you only have four of them has been slots 1-3-5-7. That's what has worked for me. However, I also remember vaguely another order which might work was 1-2-5-6 or 1-4-5-8. I think that they might have worked, but that was a very long time ago, Really, for the most part, it has been always been .1-3-5-7. Have you checked the timing on those RAM chips. I think the slowest that the computer will accept is 80 ns, and 70 ns works best.
Phil
Date: 28 Aug 2016 19:19:09 -0700
From: Jeriddian@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Eproms
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Josh,
If you wish to burn EPROMS, as I have on several occasions, I use the 28 pin TI 27C128 chips or their equivalent for burning new BIOS chips . These chips have 128K of memory. I have never burned chips for the OS for the sockets under the keyboard lid, so I do not know that these would work there. I have my doubts simply as those sockets are 32 pin.
Phil
Date: 28 Aug 2016 19:20:43 -0700
From: jws@...
Subject: Re: 1 MB SIPP Placement?
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Good point from Phil, had meant to send this but caught Phil's reply too.
I would do a reverse engineering job on the parts you got. There has to be dozens of pinouts for such parts out there, and heaven knows what yours came out of.
If you can run the original parts start with just traceing ras and cas on both your original parts (and their chips), and the new ones. And of course the power.
Hopefully you didn't connect anything on the 1mb parts to anything dangerous, and nothing bad was reflected back into your 1520 mother board on a damaging line, so you are good with that, but you never know about hooking +5 to the wrong line as far as what may have been done to the 1mb parts.
If that all checks out, I'd go with bad parts myself. There is a lot of room for problems though WRT the pinouts of the parts. Back 15 or 20 years ago I'd figure you would get good parts, but would be interested in what reference your vendor used to give you Grid parts, unless they show you the Grid system they pulled them from, or show you a reference. (As far as the grid system is concerned).
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 05:59:38 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: 1 MB SIPP Placement?
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Well, Phil...You helped me out. But you also generated more questions for me.According to what I found with Google, the Hitachi HB56A19A-7A 1 MB 30 pin SIPP RAM modules are 70 or 80 nS. I couldn't find an actual Hitachi datasheet, so I cannot be 100% sure. But, according to page 59 of the Hardware Service Course Part 2, the Grid can operate with RAM as slow as 120 nS. So, I think I'm good on the speed specification. Many thanks to you for scanning and posting the documents in the Files section!! :)
1MB RAM in the following slots gave me the following results:1, 5 = 512k1, 2, 5, 6 = 1 MB1, 4, 5, 8 = 512 k
Every other combination gives me the 1, 3, 3 beep sequence.
I have 8, 256k SIPPs that all work and MS-DOS sees all 2 MB.
The Service Course documents make mention of a 256K and a 1 MB RAM controller being between the address bus and the RAM. Is this a software entity or hardware device? Are there DIP switches or something?
The other question is: with 1 MB SIPPs, what are the valid memory configurations? It looks to be 512k, 1 MB, and possibly 8 MB. I wonder if with 1 MB SIPPs, all 8 slots have to be filled.I guess I'll have to find 4 more and do more experimenting. :)-Shawn
P.S. JWS: Could I have shorted out the 5V? Yes. But, sometimes you just gotta try things! :) From: "Jeriddian@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 10:11 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: 1 MB SIPP Placement?
#yiv6161406559 #yiv6161406559 -- #yiv6161406559 .yiv6161406559ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;min-height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv6161406559 div.yiv6161406559ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;min-height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv6161406559 div.yiv6161406559photo-title a, #yiv6161406559 div.yiv6161406559photo-title a:active, #yiv6161406559 div.yiv6161406559photo-title a:hover, #yiv6161406559 div.yiv6161406559photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv6161406559 div.yiv6161406559attach-table div.yiv6161406559attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv6161406559 div.yiv6161406559attach-table div.yiv6161406559attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv6161406559 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv6161406559 div.yiv6161406559ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv6161406559 div.yiv6161406559attach-table div.yiv6161406559attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv6161406559 div.yiv6161406559attach-table div.yiv6161406559attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv6161406559 div.yiv6161406559ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv6161406559 #yiv6161406559 #yiv6161406559 #yiv6161406559 --#yiv6161406559ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv6161406559 #yiv6161406559ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv6161406559 #yiv6161406559ygrp-mkp #yiv6161406559hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv6161406559 #yiv6161406559ygrp-mkp #yiv6161406559ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv6161406559 #yiv6161406559ygrp-mkp .yiv6161406559ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv6161406559 #yiv6161406559ygrp-mkp .yiv6161406559ad p {margin:0;}#yiv6161406559 #yiv6161406559ygrp-mkp .yiv6161406559ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv6161406559
HI, Shawn,
The usual placement for the RAM SIPP's when you only have four of them has been slots 1-3-5-7. That's what has worked for me. However, I also remember vaguely another order which might work was 1-2-5-6 or 1-4-5-8. I think that they might have worked, but that was a very long time ago, Really, for the most part, it has been always been .1-3-5-7. Have you checked the timing on those RAM chips. I think the slowest that the computer will accept is 80 ns, and 70 ns works best.
Phil
Date: 08 Sep 2016 23:18:20 -0700
From: ianfinder@...
Subject: Re: GRiDMAN
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Do you have an image of this and your other compass disks you'd be willing to share?
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2016 01:59:49 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDMAN
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Ian,I don't know who the message was intended for. I do not have the image for the Compass model.Thanks,-Shawn
From: "ianfinder@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 9, 2016 2:18 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDMAN
<!--#yiv2016366049 #yiv2016366049 .yiv2016366049ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;min-height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv2016366049 div.yiv2016366049ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;min-height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv2016366049 div.yiv2016366049photo-title a, #yiv2016366049 div.yiv2016366049photo-title a:active, #yiv2016366049 div.yiv2016366049photo-title a:hover, #yiv2016366049 div.yiv2016366049photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2016366049 div.yiv2016366049attach-table div.yiv2016366049attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv2016366049 div.yiv2016366049attach-table div.yiv2016366049attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv2016366049 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv2016366049 div.yiv2016366049ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv2016366049 div.yiv2016366049attach-table div.yiv2016366049attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2016366049 div.yiv2016366049attach-table div.yiv2016366049attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv2016366049 div.yiv2016366049ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv2016366049 --> <!--#yiv2016366049 #yiv2016366049ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv2016366049 #yiv2016366049ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv2016366049 #yiv2016366049ygrp-mkp #yiv2016366049hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv2016366049 #yiv2016366049ygrp-mkp #yiv2016366049ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv2016366049 #yiv2016366049ygrp-mkp .yiv2016366049ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv2016366049 #yiv2016366049ygrp-mkp .yiv2016366049ad p {margin:0;}#yiv2016366049 #yiv2016366049ygrp-mkp .yiv2016366049ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}-->
Do you have an image of this and your other compass disks you'd be willing to share?
Date: 10 Sep 2016 12:21:09 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: GRiDMAN
text/plain; charset=utf-8
i have not archived the disk's as of yet,but is on my todo list ,
you guys will be the first to know when there done
Date: 10 Sep 2016 13:24:05 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: Gridserver
text/plain; charset=utf-8
I have recently started working on restoring a GRiD Server 1701, and Compass Central 2701 external hard drive
after rebuilding both the power supplies i have found serveral issues that need to be resolved
1701 com-server board not being recognized by system
1701 diagnostic board seems fine
1701 file-server board seems fine
here is the big one. the harddrive in 2701 is bad, it has head failure and its not the logic boards. the heads have not crashed or stuck to the platters .3 of the 4 heads are electrically dead.
i assume there is a special version of the grid os is on this drive as trying to boot compass dos or grid os from floppy is a no go,
i know it's a long shot to find this os or even any documentation.
Ideas anyone?
Cheers
Grant
Date: 10 Sep 2016 17:06:59 -0700
From: nw@...
Subject: Re: Gridserver
text/plain; charset=utf-8
I can't help, never seen one of these up close. Any chance of pictures as you work through the restoration?
Aside from pictures that have appeared on eBay and a few websites I've seen very little about these as pictures or how they worked, features offered etc.
Date: 11 Sep 2016 13:28:16 -0700
From: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: New file uploaded to RuGRiD-Laptop
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the RuGRiD-Laptop
group.
File : /UA571C.rar
Uploaded by : klyball <klyball@...>
Description : Aliens Sentry Software Compass 1139 0nly version
You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RuGRiD-Laptop/files/UA571C.rar
To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398
Regards,
klyball <klyball@...>
Date: 11 Sep 2016 13:33:44 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: Aliens Sentry Software
text/plain; charset=utf-8
I have uploaded my Aliens Sentry software, it runs only on a compass 1139 under Dos. The screens and fonts were done buy pixel counting from screenshots from the movie and should be close to 100% screen accurate as the movie prop was a 1139.
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 13:40:21 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] New file uploaded to RuGRiD-Laptop
(personal trivia)
I was deployed to March AFB in California when Aliens first came
out. We went to see it at the cinema in Riverside. It was the
full-cut, not the watered down version most people ended up seeing
shortly after. It was weird for many years when people told me
about the special edition that was released and had all these never
before scenes. Except... I'd already seen them, and in the theater
too.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
http://w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
On 9/11/2016 1:28 PM, RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
RuGRiD-Laptop
group.
File : /UA571C.rar
Uploaded by : klyball
Description : Aliens Sentry Software Compass 1139 0nly
version
You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RuGRiD-Laptop/files/UA571C.rar
To learn more about file sharing for your group, please
visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398
Regards,
klyball
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4649/12995 - Release
Date: 09/11/16
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 23:13:49 -0400
From: shawn
Subject: RE: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Aliens Sentry Software
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Great work, Grant!
Excellent job! I had considered doing something like this in C but realised it was above my skill level. Glad to see you completed the job! :-)
-Shawn
-------- Original message --------
From: "klyball@hotmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Date:09/11/2016 16:33 (GMT-05:00)
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Aliens Sentry Software
I have uploaded my Aliens Sentry software, it runs only on a compass 1139 under Dos. The screens and fonts were done buy pixel counting from screenshots from the movie and should be close to 100% screen accurate as the movie prop was a 1139.
Date: 11 Sep 2016 20:54:55 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: RE: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Aliens Sentry Software
text/plain; charset=utf-8
I did a rough version in pascal on a 1520 but it was way to slow, so I wrote it in asm right on the 1139
Date: 11 Sep 2016 21:06:47 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] New file uploaded to RuGRiD-Laptop
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Being a amateur programmer converting it from the 1139 to a 1520 is not easy for me as the 1139 is more like a vga screen where as the 15xx series is cga ,and I'm not really sure how to effectively display it on the screen,
I ran my code through a formula I wrote but it adds too many cycles and it runs to slow . but it does run fine on any dos box with vga with a little modification . to run it on a gridcase3 would need a total rewrite as its resolution is 400x200 pixels and the 1139 is 512x256.
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2016 17:23:49 -0400
From: Justin
Subject: GridCase 1520 repair questions
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2016 22:25:14 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GridCase 1520 repair questions
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Justin,It sounds like your hard drive has died.For what you say, it sounds like the drive is spinning, but there is a head failure of some sort. Usually, the seals around the platter erode and the lubricant leaks out. If you disassemble the Grid, you might have an oily residue on the bottom of the Grid. This is common for a computer of this age.
Having said this, you can also get this same error message and failure with a bad Dallas 1287 Real Time Clock (RTC). It's internal battery is long since dead. It requires minor surgery to fix. You can look at YouTube videos for the procedure.
In the mean time, try this: Power up the 1520 for about 20 minutes. Then hit ctrl-alt-del to reboot and see if you get an error message. You probably will. But it would be curious to know if the failure persists.
Also, if you put a DOS formated boot disk in the floppy drive, the Grid should boot to MS-DOS (or Gridos in you have that disk).
Good luck and let us know how things turn out.Thanks,-Shawn
From: "Justin shadow@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2016 5:23 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GridCase 1520 repair questions
I was just gifted a 1520 and am trying to get it working again. It boots and posts, completes its memory check, and then displays an error message for invalid configuration information; code: 02. It then says f1 to continue, but F1 has no discernible effect. I can hear the internal hard drive spin up, and it seems like it might be seeking the floppy drive when I hit F1, or at least it is occasionally probing the mechanism as the upper disk drive light will turn on and I can hear the mechanism move. I believe this is the red screen/tempest model but aside from having a Compass 25 years ago that I unfortunately trashed, I know very little about these machines so I’m up for any pointers in resurrecting this thing.
Thanks,
Justin
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2016 19:09:55 -0400
From: Justin
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GridCase 1520 repair questions
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2016 23:20:00 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GridCase 1520 repair questions
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Justin,In the Files section of the Group, there are disassembly and service instructions for the 1500 series. They are here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RuGRiD-Laptop/files
We have wanted to modify the BIOS to accept/allow a CF boot. We have made some small steps of progress, but no real gains. We don't have a 100% clear understanding of the interaction at boot between the hard drive and the BIOS.We could figure it out. But we just haven't made a directed effort at disassembling the BIOS code and sitting down with a logic analyzer to see what's going on.
To get to the BIOS download and copy conf1520.exe located here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RuGRiD-Laptop/files/Grid1520files/15xxunzp/
It is all command line. type conf1520.exe /? to see the list of commands. It is very basic.Good luck,-Shawn
From: "Justin shadow@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2016 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GridCase 1520 repair questions
Ok, I actually accidentally managed to try your 20 minutes powered on suggestion. The error message persists and the machine smells like hell now - like burnt/leaking capacitors. I stuck an old MS-DOS 6.22 install disk I had into it and it booted onto it. After a few seconds I remembered that FDISK existed, and it does not detect a fixed disk. I’d forgotten Conner was even a hard drive brand, though many moons ago when the earth was young I had a Conner 40MB drive…
So clearly I need to disassemble this thing beyond just popping the rear clamshell, clean it up, probably replace some caps. Is there a disassembly or service manual online somewhere? I’m sure I can muddle through it but if there is a good order of disassembly or a scanned factory manual then so much the better. What I’ve found online indicates that is normally easy disassembly unless you have the tempest model with extra metal shielding in the back. Not knowing what the normal one looks like on the inside, and seeing a solid cage over the ports and perforated cage over the drives I’m kind of guessing that this is one of those.
What options are there for replacing the hard drive? I’ve used SCSI2SD in older Macs, and I’ve heard that there are solutions for replacing an old MFM drive with a CF card, but my quick Googling found ISA cards rather than something I could drop into a drive bay.
Is there a way to access the CMOS settings during boot, or do I need to burn the GRiDDOS disk to a floppy and boot from that? I noticed that the thing starts up with numlock engaged which is somewhat weird. I guess if the DS1287 is dead it might not matter. The DS1287 hack I was kind of expecting, though I see there are supposedly new replacements from China on eBay and there are new production DS12887+ modules on Digikey.
Thanks,
Justin
> On Oct 9, 2016, at 18:25, Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> Justin,
> It sounds like your hard drive has died.
> For what you say, it sounds like the drive is spinning, but there is a head failure of some sort. Usually, the seals around the platter erode and the lubricant leaks out. If you disassemble the Grid, you might have an oily residue on the bottom of the Grid. This is common for a computer of this age.
>
> Having said this, you can also get this same error message and failure with a bad Dallas 1287 Real Time Clock (RTC). It's internal battery is long since dead. It requires minor surgery to fix. You can look at YouTube videos for the procedure.
>
> In the mean time, try this: Power up the 1520 for about 20 minutes. Then hit ctrl-alt-del to reboot and see if you get an error message. You probably will. But it would be curious to know if the failure persists.
>
> Also, if you put a DOS formated boot disk in the floppy drive, the Grid should boot to MS-DOS (or Gridos in you have that disk).
>
> Good luck and let us know how things turn out.
> Thanks,
> -Shawn
>
> From: "Justin shadow@darksideresearch.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2016 5:23 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GridCase 1520 repair questions
>
> I was just gifted a 1520 and am trying to get it working again. It boots and posts, completes its memory check, and then displays an error message for invalid configuration information; code: 02. It then says f1 to continue, but F1 has no discernible effect. I can hear the internal hard drive spin up, and it seems like it might be seeking the floppy drive when I hit F1, or at least it is occasionally probing the mechanism as the upper disk drive light will turn on and I can hear the mechanism move. I believe this is the red screen/tempest model but aside from having a Compass 25 years ago that I unfortunately trashed, I know very little about these machines so I’m up for any pointers in resurrecting this thing.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Justin
>
>
>
Date: 09 Oct 2016 17:44:44 -0700
From: Jeriddian@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GridCase 1520 repair questions
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Justin,
Before you do anything more, remember that until the CMOS battery is good on the computer, the computer cannot recognize the hard drive. It requires a good CMOS battery. Your HD may still be good, but the computer will not see it until the CMOS battery is replaced. That's what the invalidation configuration code 02 means, that the CMOS battery is dead. You should replace the CMOS battery first and then see if the computer recognizes the HD. If you are lucky and do not have the Dallas RTC chip (some 1520's come that way), all you have to do is replace the Tadiran CMOS Battery underneath the keyboard bezel at the upper right hand corner, an easy thing to do. However, if you have a Dallas RTC chip on the motherboard, you will be required to disassemble the computer and do the procedure to replace the battery on that chip. As Shawn has noted, there are files on the forum that will tell you how to do this. In addition, please look at my file list on the forum and you will find links to instructions on assembling and disassembling the computer. But you should do this first and see if the computer will finally see the HD with a good CMOS battery. You can still boot from a floppy disk without the CMOS battery, but you'll never get the computer to see the HD until that CMOS battery is replaced.
Good Luck
Phil
Date: 10 Oct 2016 13:53:21 -0700
From: wd8cyv@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GridCase 1520 repair questions
text/plain; charset=utf-8
the new 1287 chip does not fix the problem there is a code in the original chip that is only in it so you have to fire up the installed chip or you have dead meat
never put a password in a 1520 no one supports the password of the day any more
so if you loose control and loose the password there is no reset
years ago about 15 i made image of a custom install
of dos 6 and 6.22 load that then disk 4 shuts off all the bad stuff in the load
never leave smart drive running it spends tooo much time sorting stuff and makes computer
slow and dumb if done proper 3.1 windows will run but need more of the very rare sipps memory
dave wd8cyv at yahoo dot com
questions welcome but i have not had one fired up in 12 years so i may not know any answers..
dave
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2016 01:00:26 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GridCase 1520 repair questions
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Thanks for the reminder, Phil.I got my steps out of order. Thanks for setting it straight. :)-Shawn
From: "Jeriddian@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2016 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GridCase 1520 repair questions
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Justin,
Before you do anything more, remember that until the CMOS battery is good on the computer, the computer cannot recognize the hard drive. It requires a good CMOS battery. Your HD may still be good, but the computer will not see it until the CMOS battery is replaced. That's what the invalidation configuration code 02 means, that the CMOS battery is dead. You should replace the CMOS battery first and then see if the computer recognizes the HD. If you are lucky and do not have the Dallas RTC chip (some 1520's come that way), all you have to do is replace the Tadiran CMOS Battery underneath the keyboard bezel at the upper right hand corner, an easy thing to do. However, if you have a Dallas RTC chip on the motherboard, you will be required to disassemble the computer and do the procedure to replace the battery on that chip. As Shawn has noted, there are files on the forum that will tell you how to do this. In addition, please look at my file list on the forum and you will find links to instructions on assembling and disassembling the computer. But you should do this first and see if the computer will finally see the HD with a good CMOS battery. You can still boot from a floppy disk without the CMOS battery, but you'll never get the computer to see the HD until that CMOS battery is replaced.
Good Luck
Phil
Date: 10 Oct 2016 20:24:35 -0700
From: Jeriddian@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GridCase 1520 repair questions
text/plain; charset=utf-8
You are right, Dave.
Justin, the Dallas RTC 1287A chip in the 1520 cannot be replaced as it will lock the computer into an endless rebooting cycle where it would ask for a password it has no way of accepting as the BIOS has no code to process a password (at least that is what I think has happened). You end up in an infinite loop that never boots the computer. So it is best to carefully extract the old Dallas RTC 1287A chip from the motherboard. See my instruction file on doing this which is:
www.omnipulsemedia.com/GRiD_files/Removing and Replacing the 1287A RTC Timing Chip.pdf.
Once out, you can follow the directions in disconnecting the old embedded battery, which is easily demonstrated on the follow you tube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vltmhi5Thw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vltmhi5Thw
This little video shows how to use a dremel tool to get to the pins involved inside the chip. However, on the 1520, since the 1287A lies directly underneath the keyboard, there is no room at all, so it is best to simply solder wires to the leads to pins and lay them to the battery in a different location on the computer, not place the battery on top of the chip as this video portrays. I recommend using the space where they normally would have put the Tadiran CMOS battery at the upper right part of the motherboard near the RAM and right in front of the HD, and place the battery there.
However, if for some reason, the old 1287A chip becomes unusable, and you have no choice but to put in a new chip, there is a work around, as I did get a modification of the BIOS which allows you to bypass the password requirement. This would require, however, burning some new EPROM BIOS chips for the computer and replacing the original chips with them.
Hope this helps.
Phil
Date: 13 Oct 2016 06:37:42 -0700
From: lescovez@...
Subject: John Ellenby, co-founder of GRiD Systems, Dies at 75
text/plain; charset=utf-8
John Ellenby, co-founder of GRiD Systems, Dies at 75
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/technology/john-ellenby-visionary-who-helped-create-early-laptop-dies-at-75.html
John Ellenby, Visionary Who Helped Create Early Laptop, Dies at 75 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/technology/john-ellenby-visionary-who-helped-create-early-laptop-dies-at-75.html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/technology/john-ellenby-visionary-who-helped-create-early-laptop-dies-at-75.html?_r=0
John Ellenby, Visionary Who Helped Create Early Laptop,... http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/technology/john-ellenby-visionary-who-helped-create-early-laptop-dies-at-75.html?_r=0 Mr. Ellenby founded Grid Systems, where the Compass was produced. It went on to become a tool for big corporations, government spies, White House official...
View on www.nytimes.com http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/technology/john-ellenby-visionary-who-helped-create-early-laptop-dies-at-75.html?_r=0
Preview by Yahoo
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 01:41:59 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] John Ellenby, co-founder of GRiD Systems, Dies at 75
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Yuri,Thank you very much for posting this article. It is great to know the history of our wonderful computers.
I was first introduced to Grid's as a member of the White House Communications Agency (1988-1994). So, I can say that this line: "[Admiral Poindexter]...would also spend his free time using the Compass to reprogram the IBM electronic mail system that the White House employed..." is, shall we say, a stretch of the truth.
Grid's were used, on the road outside of DC, as dumb terminals. They were usually connected to a modem, or digital switch, via their serial port. Most were configured at VT100's or 3270 terminals connected to a mainframe back in DC. I seem to remember VM/360 was the mainframe OS. It ran IBM's PROFS (Professional Office System). There was a separate, secure (encrypted) system called S/PROFS (Secure PROFS) that supported end to end encryption for those who needed it. It was mostly used for email. So, to say that he "reprogrammed" the electronic mail system is a bit misleading. I'm sure he was just checking his secure email. But, what do I know? I was a radio guy. I did radio stuff-not computer stuff. The computer guys and gals had their own headaches. :)
Thanks again for posting,-Shawn
From: "lescovez@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 9:37 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] John Ellenby, co-founder of GRiD Systems, Dies at 75
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John Ellenby, co-founder of GRiD Systems, Dies at 75 John Ellenby, Visionary Who Helped Create Early Laptop, Dies at 75
| |
| | | | John Ellenby, Visionary Who Helped Create Early Laptop,... Mr. Ellenby founded Grid Systems, where the Compass was produced. It went on to become a tool for big corporations, government spies, White House official... | |
| View on www.nytimes.com | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 03:38:37 +0000 (UTC)
From: =?UTF-8?B?0K7RgNC40Lkg0JvQtdGB0LrQvtCy0LXRhg==?=
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=9E=D1=82=D0=B2:_[RuGRiD-Laptop]_John_Ellenby,_c?= =?UTF-8?Q?o-founder_of_GRiD_Systems,_Dies_at_75?=
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Shawn, you've worked in the White House?
Yuri пятница, 14 октября 2016 6:42 "Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> писал(а):
Yuri,Thank you very much for posting this article. It is great to know the history of our wonderful computers.
I was first introduced to Grid's as a member of the White House Communications Agency (1988-1994). So, I can say that this line: "[Admiral Poindexter]...would also spend his free time using the Compass to reprogram the IBM electronic mail system that the White House employed..." is, shall we say, a stretch of the truth.
Grid's were used, on the road outside of DC, as dumb terminals. They were usually connected to a modem, or digital switch, via their serial port. Most were configured at VT100's or 3270 terminals connected to a mainframe back in DC. I seem to remember VM/360 was the mainframe OS. It ran IBM's PROFS (Professional Office System). There was a separate, secure (encrypted) system called S/PROFS (Secure PROFS) that supported end to end encryption for those who needed it. It was mostly used for email. So, to say that he "reprogrammed" the electronic mail system is a bit misleading. I'm sure he was just checking his secure email. But, what do I know? I was a radio guy. I did radio stuff-not computer stuff. The computer guys and gals had their own headaches. :)
Thanks again for posting,-Shawn
From: "lescovez@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 9:37 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] John Ellenby, co-founder of GRiD Systems, Dies at 75
John Ellenby, co-founder of GRiD Systems, Dies at 75 John Ellenby, Visionary Who Helped Create Early Laptop, Dies at 75
| |
| | | | John Ellenby, Visionary Who Helped Create Early Laptop,... Mr. Ellenby founded Grid Systems, where the Compass was produced. It went on to become a tool for big corporations, government spies, White House official... | |
| View on www.nytimes.com | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
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Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 03:46:03 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=D0=9E=D1=82=D0=B2:_[RuGRiD-Laptop]_John_Ellenby,?= =?UTF-8?Q?_co-founder_of_GRiD_Systems,_Dies_at_75?=
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
No. I was just 1 of many people who supported the White House.-Shawn
From: "Юрий Лесковец lescovez@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: "RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 11:38 PM
Subject: Отв: [RuGRiD-Laptop] John Ellenby, co-founder of GRiD Systems, Dies at 75
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Shawn, you've worked in the White House?
Yuri пятница, 14 октября 2016 6:42 "Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> писал(а):
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Date: 25 Oct 2016 23:00:44 -0700
From: ianfinder@...
Subject: Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi folks,
I have some Compass (CCOS) executables and files as loose files on a DOS machine here, and I'd like to copy it to a disk that my non-DOS, CCOS (GRiDos-based) compass can read.
What's the best way to do this? I tried GRiDterm and GRiDvt100 but it appears they can't receive binary files.
I was just going to dial them up and a modem them over.
In conclusion, how do I get loose files between a Compass / CCOS formatted volume on an 11XX grid and a DOS machine or anything else?
Thanks,
- Ian
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 07:57:25 -0400
From: shawn
Subject: RE: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Ian,
I think a program like ProcommPlus would work. You would have to use a null modem cable, but I think it would work.
In fact, any terminal program should work.
Good luck and let us know how it works out.
-Shawn
-------- Original message --------
From: "ianfinder@yahoo.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Date:10/26/2016 02:00 (GMT-05:00)
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
Hi folks,
I have some Compass (CCOS) executables and files as loose files on a DOS machine here, and I'd like to copy it to a disk that my non-DOS, CCOS (GRiDos-based) compass can read.
What's the best way to do this? I tried GRiDterm and GRiDvt100 but it appears they can't receive binary files.
I was just going to dial them up and a modem them over.
In conclusion, how do I get loose files between a Compass / CCOS formatted volume on an 11XX grid and a DOS machine or anything else?
Thanks,
- Ian
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 10:02:48 -0700
From: Ian Finder
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
text/plain; charset=utf-8
These are Compass machines, running CCOS natively. They can't run ProComm. And the internal terminal software can't download files.
You can run a hacky MS DOS 2.0 on the compass but as far as I know there is not a way to interchange the files with CCOS
Again, this is not a PC compatible GRiDcase- I'm talking about getting files in and out of an 1101 or similar.
I wish it was as easy as procomm :(
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 02:15:55 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Sorry, Ian. I do not know how to write to bubble memory. You don't have the 2101 external drive, right? I guess you don't. If you did, you would be asking about transfers, right?I wish I could help you.-Shawn
From: "Ian Finder ianfinder@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
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| These are Compass machines, running CCOS natively. They can't run ProComm. And the internal terminal software can't download files.
You can run a hacky MS DOS 2.0 on the compass but as far as I know there is not a way to interchange the files with CCOS
Again, this is not a PC compatible GRiDcase- I'm talking about getting files in and out of an 1101 or similar.
I wish it was as easy as procomm :( |
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 04:39:28 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ian Finder
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I have tons of floppy drives for the compass. The compass doesn't read or write DOS formatted floppies, unless it is running MS-DOS. I'm trying to run CCOS / GRiD-OS, so although I have the floppy drive, I have no (known) way to write a CCOS formatted floppy.
On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 7:16 PM, "Shawnerz shawnerz@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Sorry, Ian. I do not know how to write to bubble memory. You don't have the 2101 external drive, right? I guess you don't. If you did, you would be asking about transfers, right?I wish I could help you.-Shawn
From: "Ian Finder ianfinder@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
| These are Compass machines, running CCOS natively. They can't run ProComm. And the internal terminal software can't download files.
You can run a hacky MS DOS 2.0 on the compass but as far as I know there is not a way to interchange the files with CCOS
Again, this is not a PC compatible GRiDcase- I'm talking about getting files in and out of an 1101 or similar.
I wish it was as easy as procomm :( |
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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 04:49:18 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ian Finder
Subject: Restoring a Compass 2101 Floppy & Hard drive - Looking for the CCOS / GRiD OS media: GRiDtransfer / GRiDpartition
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Paging mr. Klyball - let's please collaborate on this stuff, as it seems few other people have Compass gear.
Folks, I've been restoring two 2101 disk systems - the hard drive / floppy drive combo for the Compass computers.Unfortunately, the original drives (ST-412s) are broken.
I've replaced the drives with identical drives, and can use them under MS-DOS 2.00 for the compass.I'd like to use them under GRiD OS however.
Reading the MS-DOS manual mentions that to partition / format the drives for GRiD OS, there is a different utility that must be run. Further research indicates that this utility is part of the following media pack:
35 GRiDTransfer/Partition 21210
So if anyone has a lead on the GridTransfer / Partition media pack for the compass, we need to archive that ASAP.
Anyone with a working 2101 disk system will eventually have the drive die, and without a copy of this, they will be totally dead in the water and unable to format a replacement. (Unless they're content using DOS on a Compass... Eww...)
Honestly, the RuGrid list has done a good job archiving the GRiDcase stuff, but there is a miserable gap on archiving Compass stuff.If we want any record of the compass, and the ability to run meaningful software on them in the future, now is the time to act.
This stuff won't be image-able forever- consider this a plea for anyone with compass floppies to speak up and get them read into something safe and stable.
Thanks,
- Ian
Citations / Compass software lists:
http://www.1000bit.it/ad/bro/grid/GRID-1984-PriceList.pdfGoogle Groups - Grid Stuff
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Google Groups
Google Groups allows you to create and participate in online forums and email-based groups with a rich experienc... | |
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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 07:50:24 -0400
From: Justin
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Restoring a Compass 2101 Floppy & Hard drive - Looking for the CCOS / GRiD OS media: GRiDtransfer / GRiDpartition
Date: 27 Oct 2016 07:55:02 -0700
From: androgenoide@...
Subject: RE: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Some years ago, when the Kermit for DOS page was still being maintained there was a note about a tiny file transfer utility... let me quote it in its entirety;
; To: kermit@columbia.edu
; Subject: Small ASCII encoded comm program for DOS
; Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:41:37 -0600 (MDT)
; From: carruth@ece.utah.edu (Brent Carruth)
;
; I have put together ASM code that generates a small ASCII encoded comm
; program for DOS. It may prove useful to others and so I am sending it
; to you for inclusion in the MS-KERMIT software repository. Included below
; is a file which I have named TCOMTXT.ASM. If you need to rename the file,
; then a few lines in the commented source code need to reflect this change.
;
; Brent L. Carruth, Ph.D.
; ----------------------------------------------------------------------
; This program is useful in copying files to a computer using only the
; serial port and starting with only the COPY command.
;
; Use this program to generate TCOM.COM for MS-DOS with the commands:
;
; TASM TCOMTXT
; TLINK TCOMTXT /T
; TCOMTXT > TCOM.COM
;
; The resulting TCOM.COM file is encoded with only printable 7-bit ASCII
; characters. It can be entered as plain text (shown below) and executed.
; TCOM is a 185 byte (with CRLFs) comm program that sets port 1 to 300
; baud and polls it. To set port 2 replace 'ss' with 'ts'. To set 2400 baud
; replace '26' with 'V'. On 25MHz+ computers 2400 baud works fine.
;
; XPHPD[0GG0G,0G51G31GB'(G+(G:u'0g?(G>(GE1G@arwIV_F*=US@<1|_,5wXNg-7muTu(4
; 1m0ss1k260s@3G1g360@3G0i7t2g3A1g350@3G2E1=0C1g350@3T2M0^\1g3>0@3T=1s2g0T
; 1g3;0@3ToN2g391g0t@3G0^F1k0s2?0@3T4
;
;
; The loader and builder portions of this program were written by
; Dan Norstedt, Stockholm, Sweden on 17 Feb 1990 who placed them in the
; public domain. He notes that they may be useful for other programs, too.
;
;
; The source code for the comm program portion of this program was modified
; from a debug listing of the TINYCOMM.COM program shown and explained in an
; article describing it (along with other related matters, including a tiny
; comm program in BASIC) in a 26911-byte file named TINYCOMM.TXT dated 13 Dec
; 1986. Unfortunately, no author is listed in this article. However, the
; author of the article is presumably Charles Petzold because, when assembled
; with debug, the TINYCOMM program described in the article is byte-for-byte
; identical to the first 49 bytes of the 103 byte TINYCOMM program dated
; 1 Jun 1988 from PC-MAG Utilities and the last 54 bytes includes the string
; ' by Charles Petzold - (c) 1988 Ziff Communications Co.'
;
;
; I have changed the source code for TINYCOMM in two trivial, but significant,
; ways related to file transfers. The first is that COM1 is initialized to 300
; baud but may be readily changed to either COM2 and/or 2400 baud. The second
; is that the program exits by pressing Esc. This makes it possible to use
; TCOM to download a file from another computer connected with a fully-wired
; null modem cable with 'TCOM > filename' and pressing Esc when done. I use
; MS-Kermit on the other computer to upload the file with the commands "set
; port 1, set speed 300, set local-echo on, set transmit line-feeds-sent on,
; set transmit prompt \0, transmit filename". To get TCOM on the first
; computer to begin with, carefully type it in using the standard DOS
; 'COPY CON TCOM.COM' command and pressing Ctrl-Z when done. MSBPCG.ASM is
; another program by Dan Norstedt that generates a 557 byte 7-bit ASCII encoded
; program named MSBPCT.COM that decodes standard Kermit bootstrap or "BOO"
; files. The first BOO file downloaded should be a small, reliable file trans-
; fer program. Thus, starting with a DOS boot disk having only the system files
; and COMMAND.COM it is possible to get other files copied to this disk using
; only the serial port and starting with only the DOS 'COPY' command.
;
;
; Brent L. Carruth, Ph.D.
; 9 April 2002
CODE SEGMENT PUBLIC
ASSUME CS:CODE,DS:CODE
ORG 100H
START: JMP GENCOM
ORG 100H+72+1 ; Address where loader starts loading
CODARE:
;----------------------- beginning of PROGRAM code area -----------------------
;TCOM.ASM -- assemble with TASM v1.0
;58 byte communications program that polls COM1 at 300 baud.
;Esc key exits. Avoid Ctrl-P.
;Major portions attributable to Charles Petzold.
;
;Brent L. Carruth, Ph.D.
;18 April 2002
;
;CODE SEGMENT PARA
; ASSUME CS:CODE,DS:CODE
; ORG 100H
BEGIN: MOV DX,0 ; 0 FOR COM1 (1 FOR COM2)
MOV AX,43H ; SET PORT 300,N,8,1 (0A3H FOR 2400,N,8,1)
INT 14H
TC_1: MOV AH,03 ; GET COMM PORT STATUS
INT 14H
TEST AH,01 ; IF NO DATA READY, GO ON
JZ TC_2
MOV AH,02 ; READ CHARACTER FROM COMM PORT
INT 14H
PUSH DX
MOV DL,AL
MOV AH,02 ; WRITE TO DISPLAY
INT 21H
POP DX
JMP TC_1 ; LOOP AROUND
TC_2: MOV AH,0BH ; CHECK KEYBOARD
INT 21H
OR AL,AL
JZ TC_1
MOV AH,08 ; IF CHAR, READ IT
INT 21H
CMP AL,1BH ; IS IT ESC KEY ?
JZ QUIT ; YES, QUIT
MOV AH,01 ; NO, SEND TO MODEM
INT 14H
JMP TC_1 ; LOOP AROUND
QUIT: MOV AX,4C00H ; EXIT TO DOS
INT 21H
;CODE ENDS
; END BEGIN
;-------------------------- end of PROGRAM code area --------------------------
CODEND:
;-- Loader starts here; don't touch unless you REALLY know what's going on --
FIXUP MACRO LABL,OFFS,DAT,DA2,DAS
ORG $+(OFFS)
LABL Label Byte
IFNB <DAS>
IFNB <DA2>
DB (((DAS) OR 65H)-((DAS) AND 65H)) AND 0FFH,0FFH-(DA2)
ORG $-1H
ELSE
DB ((DAS)+65H) AND 0FFH
ENDIF
ELSE
DB 0FFH-((DAT) AND 0FFH)
IFNB <DA2>
DB 0FFH-(DA2)
ORG $-1H
ENDIF
ENDIF
ORG $-(OFFS)-1H
ENDM
FIXBYT MACRO ADDR ; Generate "XOR [BX+ADDR-0FFH],AL" with 8-bit offset
DB 30H,47H,(Offset ADDR-Offset LOADER+100H)-0FFH
ENDM
FIXBYH MACRO ADDR ; Generate "XOR [BX+ADDR-0FFH],AH" with 8-bit offset
DB 30H,67H,(Offset ADDR-Offset LOADER+100H)-0FFH
ENDM
FIXWRD MACRO ADDR ; Generate "XOR [BX+ADDR-0FFH],AX" with 8-bit offset
DB 31H,47H,(Offset ADDR-Offset LOADER+100H)-0FFH
ENDM
FIXSUB MACRO ADDR ; Generate "SUB [BX+ADDR-0FFH],AL" with 8-bit offset
DB 28H,47H,(Offset ADDR-Offset LOADER+100H)-0FFH
ENDM
LOADER: POP AX
PUSH AX
DEC AX ; Load AX with 0FFFFH
PUSH AX ; Now FF FF 00 00 on stack
INC SP
POP BX ; Load BX with 00FF
FIXBYT XORBXX ; Fix up end of loader code
FIXBYT XORB1
FIXBYT XORB2
FIXWRD XORW1
FIXWRD XORW2
DAA ; Load AL with 65H
FIXSUB SUBB1
FIXSUB SUBB2
JNZ J0JMP ; Break pipeline
J0DST: FIXBYH XORB3
FIXSUB SUBB3
FIXSUB SUBB4
FIXWRD XORX1
; FC
CLD ; Set LODSB direction
FIXUP SUBB1,-1H,,,0FCH
; 8D7749 LEA SI,[BX+DATA-0FFH] ; Point at 100H+72
DB 8DH,77H,(Offset DATA-Offset LOADER+100H)-0FFH
FIXUP XORB1,-3H,8DH
; 56
PUSH SI ; Copy SI -> DI
; 5F
POP DI
; 46
INC SI
J2DST:
; 2AC2
SUB AL,DL ; Compute real code/data byte
; AA
STOSB ; Save it
FIXUP XORW1,-2H,0C2H,0AAH
J1DST:
J3DST:
; AC
LODSB ; Get an encoded data byte
FIXUP XORB2,-1H,0ACH
; 40
INC AX
; 3C31
CMP AL,31H ; Printable and >= '0'?
; 7CFA
JL J1DST
J1SRC: FIXUP SUBB2,-1H,,,J1DST-J1SRC
; 2C35
SUB AL,'4'+1 ; Yes, '0'-'3' (or '4' = exit code) ?
; 77F3
JA J2DST ; No, store with current prefix code
J2SRC: FIXUP SUBB3,-1H,,,J2DST-J2SRC
; B102
MOV CL,2H
FIXUP XORB3,-2H,0B1H
; D2C8
ROR AL,CL
FIXUP XORX1,-3H,,0D2H,2H
; 92
XCHG DX,AX ; Yes, just save shifted value
FIXUP XORW2,-2H,0C8H,92H
; 75EF
JNZ J3DST ; No, contine loop
J3SRC: FIXUP SUBB4,-1H,,,J3DST-J3SRC
; 75D7
J0JMP: JNZ J0DST ; (Dummy branch used to clear prefetch queue)
J0SRC: FIXUP XORBXX,-1H,J0DST-J0SRC
DB 34H ; Skip over next byte (34H = XOR AL,nn opcode)
DATA: DB "$" ; CRLF data to make sure JL J1DST taken first time
GENCOM: PUSH CS ; Allow use without EXE2BIN
POP DS
MOV DX,Offset LOADER ; Output LOADER code (!)
MOV AH,9H
INT 21H
CLD
MOV SI,Offset CODARE ; Pointer to real PROGRAM code
XOR BP,BP ; Reset columns left counter
MOV BH,17 ; Assure that BH not in range '0'-'3'
BYTLOP: MOV AX,0C01H
SUB AL,[SI] ; Convert PROGRAM code to loader format
INC SI
MOV CL,2H
SHL AX,CL ; First byte is top 2 bits of byte+43H
NOT AL
SHR AL,CL ; Second byte is low 6 bits of -byte-3
ADD AL,35H ; Based value is '5' for second byte
CMP AH,BH ; Same prefix as previous byte?
MOV BH,AH
XCHG DX,AX
OUTBYT: XCHG DH,DL ; Swap output order
JZ OUTNHI ; Skip unnecessary prefix byte
DEC BP
JG OUTNCR ; Not 72 chars on the line yet
PUSH DX
MOV DX,Offset CRLF ; 72 chars on line, add CR LF
MOV AH,9H
INT 21H
MOV BP,48H ; Restart line pointer
POP DX
OUTNCR: MOV AH,2H ; Output a byte
INT 21H
OUTNHI: XOR DL,DL ; Clear out used code byte
AND DH,DH ; Anything more to print?
JNZ OUTBYT
CMP SI,Offset CODEND ; End of area?
JNZ BYTLOP
MOV DX,Offset ENDTXT ; Yes, add trailer: 34H and CR LF
MOV AH,9H
INT 21H
MOV AH,4CH ; End GENCOM program section
INT 21H
ENDTXT DB 34H ; End of file marker for loader
CRLF DB 0DH,0AH,"$"
CODE ENDS
END START
Date: 27 Oct 2016 08:58:55 -0700
From: androgenoide@...
Subject: RE: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
text/plain; charset=utf-8
I know that it talks about using the program with DOS but, realistically, if you have DOS why not use something like Laplink? The way I see this is that; if you have an 8086 compatible processor and UART, if you can type in a 185 character line, save it as a 7bit ASCII text file, rename that file as an executable and run it... then you have a tiny, primitive file transfer utility. I've never had occasion to try this but I have to admire the ingenuity of the guy who wrote it.
Date: 27 Oct 2016 12:43:58 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi Ian
What I have done in the past is burn them onto a rom with rombuild from the files section then you could write them to floppy or move them to bubble under grid-os.
Date: 29 Oct 2016 09:18:44 -0700
From: touchetek@...
Subject: Re: Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Explore lap link.
I have version 5 which has a remote install feature.
On the GRiD side you only need to do a copy command,
with output directed to a file. Then on the other computer you invoe
laplinks remote install feature.
laplink shuttles a copy of itself over to the other machine,
which you then can launch and use the facilities of lap link
on both sides.
I hope there are details in the help for you cause
I can't find a post about in with google right now.
Date: 29 Oct 2016 09:47:28 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
text/plain; charset=utf-8
The compass uses a not so common DE19 connector , if you look at the photo stream I posted the pinout for it
Grant
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 10:43:32 -0700
From: Chris Hanson
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Oct 29, 2016, at 9:18 AM, touchetek@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> Explore lap link.
Is there a version that runs on CCOS, or has access to the CCOS filesystem?
-- Chris
>
Date: 30 Oct 2016 06:36:38 -0700
From: androgenoide@...
Subject: Re: Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
text/plain; charset=utf-8
The Laplink remote install feature assumes that the target computer is running DOS. It relies on a DOS internal command that allows you to set the console to the serial port. In this case the target computer is running a DOS-like operating system with unknown capabilities and there's no reason to suppose it would work.
Date: 30 Oct 2016 10:50:33 -0700
From: androgenoide@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
text/plain; charset=utf-8
I doubt that there was much written for CCOS. It would be nice to know the capabilities of the OS... DOS was intended to be used on a variety of different computers so there are internal commands that allow the user to resize the screen and define the location and characteristics of the console. If CCOS was written specifically for the Compass without thought of porting it to another machine there would be no good reason to include such options. It does seem odd that Gridterm would not have a file transfer option though... most terminal emulators have something that will do the job.
Do either of these (CCOS or Gridterm) respond to "?" or "H" or "help"... a lot of software has some option to display all the commands it recognizes as valid.
Date: 30 Oct 2016 21:14:29 -0700
From: klyball@...
Subject: GRiD Tempest setup
I had my Tempest setup out the other day, thought I would post a pic.
The printer is a HP 2225A ThinkJet repackage in a tempest case.
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 21:34:54 -0700
From: Asa Jay Laughton
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD Tempest setup [1 Attachment]
Where can one source one of those printers? In the Tempest case?
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
http://w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
On 10/30/2016 9:14 PM, klyball@... [RuGRiD-Laptop] wrote:
Date: 31 Oct 2016 06:49:25 -0700
From: touchetek@...
Subject: Re: Copying files from DOS or a modern system to a GRiD compass?
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Yes. Regrettably I jumped to a conclusion due to having fielded the "how can I get files off my old PC' question many times. A careful read would have avoided that.
Date: 31 Oct 2016 06:50:24 -0700
From: touchetek@...
Subject: Re: GRiD Tempest setup
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Nice. !
Date: 31 Oct 2016 13:50:35 -0700
From: colin.nuke@...
Subject: Gridcase Battery Specs
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi everyone!
I've taken a look through the forum but haven't found the specific rating for the lead acid battery that came with the Gridcase 1,2,3, etc. series. Does anyone happen to know the voltage and current rating? Is it the same as the charger (16.25v DC and 1.25 amps)?
Thanks for the help!
Date: 31 Oct 2016 13:56:07 -0700
From: colin.nuke@...
Subject: Gridcase Battery Specs
Hello everyone!
I'm new to the forum and have been working on getting acquainted with as much info as I can before posting. With that said, I'm new to the world of GRiD computers with respect to working with them. I've wanted one for quite some time but it's only recently that I've been able to acquire one... sort of. Unfortunately, thanks to the USPS, the one I purchased arrived in a few pieces, so I'm still on the hunt.
Despite that setback, I've been actively working on designing a replacement battery of sorts. I know the Gridcase (1,2,3) series utilized lead acid batteries and for the most part worked similarly to how current batteries work. I've seen folks open up these batteries and do a re-cell, usually with NiCd or NiMH cells. What I've been working on is a brand new battery case loaded with LiFeO4 batteries. This should work as a direct replacement, save for the fact that you won't be able to charge them while in the laptop. They would have to be removed for charging due to the differences between lead acid and LeFeO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate).
The info I'm looking for to help move this project along involves the battery specs from the original lead acid ones. I've seen the chargers and I'm aware that they input 16.25v DC at around 1.25 amps. What I don't know is if the batteries produced the same voltage and current. Does anyone have this info handy?
I appreciate any help I can get! Thanks much.
Date: 31 Oct 2016 13:57:26 -0700
From: colin.nuke@...
Subject: Re: Gridcase Battery Specs
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Apologies... this is the first topic I thought I sent, but it never posted on my end. Please disregard the other post.
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2016 23:17:13 +0100
From: "fabio.gerosa206"
Subject: R: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Gridcase Battery Specs [2 Attachments]
text/plain; charset=utf-8
HiMy Gridcase 3 came originally with ni-cd battery with I have successfully swapped twice in last 20 years always with Ni-Cd 1.2V elements. If I recall well there were 12 elements in total for 18v.I was not aware or lead acid batteries for Gridcase. Fabio
Inviato da smartphone Samsung Galaxy.
-------- Messaggio originale --------Da: "colin.nuke@gmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> Data: 31/10/16 21:56 (GMT+01:00) A: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com Oggetto: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Gridcase Battery Specs [2 Attachments]
[Attachment(s) from colin.nuke@gmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop] included below]
Hello everyone!
I'm new to the forum and have been working on getting acquainted with as much info as I can before posting. With that said, I'm new to the world of GRiD computers with respect to working with them. I've wanted one for quite some time but it's only recently that I've been able to acquire one... sort of. Unfortunately, thanks to the USPS, the one I purchased arrived in a few pieces, so I'm still on the hunt.
Despite that setback, I've been actively working on designing a replacement battery of sorts. I know the Gridcase (1,2,3) series utilized lead acid batteries and for the most part worked similarly to how current batteries work. I've seen folks open up these batteries and do a re-cell, usually with NiCd or NiMH cells. What I've been working on is a brand new battery case loaded with LiFeO4 batteries. This should work as a direct replacement, save for the fact that you won't be able to charge them while in the laptop. They would have to be removed for charging due to the differences between lead acid and LeFeO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate).
The info I'm looking for to help move this project along involves the battery specs from the original lead acid ones. I've seen the chargers and I'm aware that they input 16.25v DC at around 1.25 amps. What I don't know is if the batteries produced the same voltage and current. Does anyone have this info handy?
I appreciate any help I can get! Thanks much.
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2016 23:20:17 +0100
From: "fabio.gerosa206"
Subject: R: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Gridcase Battery Specs
text/plain; charset=utf-8
14.4 volts sorry
Inviato da smartphone Samsung Galaxy.
-------- Messaggio originale --------Da: "'fabio.gerosa206' fabio.gerosa206@tiscali.it [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> Data: 31/10/16 23:17 (GMT+01:00) A: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com Oggetto: R: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Gridcase Battery Specs
HiMy Gridcase 3 came originally with ni-cd battery with I have successfully swapped twice in last 20 years always with Ni-Cd 1.2V elements. If I recall well there were 12 elements in total for 18v.I was not aware or lead acid batteries for Gridcase. Fabio
Inviato da smartphone Samsung Galaxy.
-------- Messaggio originale --------Da: "colin.nuke@gmail.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com> Data: 31/10/16 21:56 (GMT+01:00) A: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com Oggetto: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Gridcase Battery Specs [2 Attachments]
Hello everyone!
I'm new to the forum and have been working on getting acquainted with as much info as I can before posting. With that said, I'm new to the world of GRiD computers with respect to working with them. I've wanted one for quite some time but it's only recently that I've been able to acquire one... sort of. Unfortunately, thanks to the USPS, the one I purchased arrived in a few pieces, so I'm still on the hunt.
Despite that setback, I've been actively working on designing a replacement battery of sorts. I know the Gridcase (1,2,3) series utilized lead acid batteries and for the most part worked similarly to how current batteries work. I've seen folks open up these batteries and do a re-cell, usually with NiCd or NiMH cells. What I've been working on is a brand new battery case loaded with LiFeO4 batteries. This should work as a direct replacement, save for the fact that you won't be able to charge them while in the laptop. They would have to be removed for charging due to the differences between lead acid and LeFeO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate).
The info I'm looking for to help move this project along involves the battery specs from the original lead acid ones. I've seen the chargers and I'm aware that they input 16.25v DC at around 1.25 amps. What I don't know is if the batteries produced the same voltage and current. Does anyone have this info handy?
I appreciate any help I can get! Thanks much.
Date: 31 Oct 2016 15:42:50 -0700
From: colin.nuke@...
Subject: Re: R: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Gridcase Battery Specs
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Interesting. I guess I had some bad info. If that's the case then it will be a fair bit easier to put this all together. And I can use the built in charge feature!
Thanks!
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 02:59:49 +0000 (UTC)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: R: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Gridcase Battery Specs
text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Colin,As you know, nominal voltage is 16 volts DC. I would be curious to know how well your Grid will perform with 14 volts. Several years ago, I was doing some experiments with a 1550SX. I wanted to see if I could run it from a 12V supply. I have a variable 0-20 VDC supply.My experience was that if booted the Grid from about 14 volts, I could decrease the voltage to about 10 volts and it would still function. The Grid was not doing any intense computing. It was idle. But, the 1550 would not boot up from voltages less than about 13 volts. I do not know if your Gridcase will behave the same or not. So, you might be on the edge of it booting.If 14 cells fit in the case, you might get more reliable booting performance.
Another point to consider: Ni-MH cells. Ni-MH will hold their voltage longer and give you more current. The downside is their overall life is not as long as Ni-Cd's. In most cases, you can use the same charger. Here is something I pulled from another forum:
The primary problem is that NiMH batteries do not like to be force-fed/overcharged, and
that is exactly what NiCd "low-end" chargers do: they are basically constant-current
"trickle" chargers (low current, takes many hours to charge, then keep feeding this
same charging current even after the NiCd is fully charged). NiCd batteries just shrug
off this excess charging current, but it will eventually "cook" your NiMHs.
That said, NiMH will pack much more punch into given size...so if you don't leave it on
constant charge (drain it, charge it overnight, then unplug it once "properly" charged)
it should work quite well.
Of course if you ditch the crappy little wallwart "charger" and hook it up to a proper
NiMH charger, it'll work Great!
As we say here in the US, "Your mileage may vary..." :)Good luck to you, and I'd be interested to hear what works for you.-Shawn
From: "colin.nuke@... [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: R: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Gridcase Battery Specs
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Interesting. I guess I had some bad info. If that's the case then it will be a fair bit easier to put this all together. And I can use the built in charge feature!
Thanks!
Date: 06 Nov 2016 16:27:52 -0800
From: klyball@...
Subject: Lets see what we have
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our combined collection
Date: 06 Nov 2016 16:47:49 -0800
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: Lets see what we have
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Grant, The problem is I have 3 (maybe 4), 1520's; 2, 1139's; and 1, 1550SX. I voted, but they all got 1 vote. I hope that's what you wanted. :)
Date: 06 Nov 2016 16:56:19 -0800
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: Lets see what we have
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there does not seem to be away to do multi but it will be a general sampling
Date: 06 Nov 2016 20:25:01 -0800
From: Jeriddian@...
Subject: Re: Lets see what we have
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Well,
How do you think you would count units? I have 1520's, 1530's, 1535's, and 1550's. Is that four points, or is the number of units a factor also?
Date: 07 Nov 2016 09:11:27 -0800
From: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Lets see what we have
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[RuGRiD-Laptop] An existing poll has been modified, check it out.
Enter your vote now! https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RuGRiD-Laptop/polls/poll/3226376
Not a complete list but add what you have if not here
Created by: klyball
1. gridcase 4 (tempest) 1307 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RuGRiD-Laptop/polls/poll/3226376#22346621 (added by: hercule0164 . November 7, 2016)
2. Grid 286 N https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RuGRiD-Laptop/polls/poll/3226376#22346622 (added by: hercule0164 . November 7, 2016)
3. Grid 1660 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RuGRiD-Laptop/polls/poll/3226376#22346623 (added by: hercule0164 . November 7, 2016)
Thanks!
Date: 07 Nov 2016 09:39:40 -0800
From: walton.david@...
Subject: Re: Lets see what we have
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Hi. I have a gridcase 4 tempest (1307), gridpad, grid 286n and grid 1660.
Date: 07 Nov 2016 12:48:35 -0800
From: klyball@...
Subject: Re: Lets see what we have
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We can't count multiples but it will give an idea of what's out there, I too have multiples of many units.
Date: 15 Nov 2016 16:38:06 -0800
From: jenniferpiercegs@...
Subject: Gridcase 1530 & CDROM question
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Is it possible to attach an old style CDROM to the Gridcase 1530 via the parallel port and get it to work?
I am also trying to figure out how to possibly attach an external 5.25" floppy drive as well.
Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!
Jennifer
Date: 15 Nov 2016 19:22:45 -0800
From: wd8cyv@...
Subject: Re: Gridcase 1530 & CDROM question
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cd via the printer port would be a problem as there were probably no drivers written to support
it
or the port is limited in its talk back from the printer
floppy drivers also never written
dave wd8cyv
these things are old tech and old history i am surprised any of them still work
some day i will see if i can get the Dallas clock chip in mine to live again and use it for ham radio rtty
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 00:19:19 -0500
From: shawn
Subject: RE: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Gridcase 1530 & CDROM question
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I know at one time, I had an external CDROM with a 25 pin connector.
I do not remember if it was serial or parallel. I think it was parallel.
I may still have it in storage. However, as Dave pointed out, finding the correct driver would be the problem.
It will take a couple of weeks, but I will look to see what I have.
But to answer you question, yes, I think you can do it.
-Shawn
-------- Original message --------
From: "wd8cyv@yahoo.com [RuGRiD-Laptop]" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Date:11/15/2016 22:22 (GMT-05:00)
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Gridcase 1530 & CDROM question
cd via the printer port would be a problem as there were probably no drivers written to support
it
or the port is limited in its talk back from the printer
floppy drivers also never written
dave wd8cyv
these things are old tech and old history i am surprised any of them still work
some day i will see if i can get the Dallas clock chip in mine to live again and use it for ham radio rtty