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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:15:38 -0000
From: "engrken04"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1520 Available
Nick,
If you decide to sell it as parts, I (and probably others) would like to get into the bidding for the CP-3044.
Ken S.
----------------
> > It is a Conner CP-3044. The drive will be formatted, primarily so others will not see my horrible config.sys and autoexec.bat settings, never quite recovered from the Windows transition... It may be of importance to know that any parts from the 1520 would be shipped out from PA 19525.
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:28:49 -0000
From: "nick_zravre"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1520 Available
The dallas chip has two leads attached to it for a battery, though they be attached by cyanoacrylate glue and electrical tape, they are there, and do have good connections they haven't come off yet. The internal battery is disconnected, so the computer will start and boot to the hdd. The unit is dusty as it has been under my workbench for a a year or so. I still have the case that came with the laptop if you want it.
I will consider pretty much any price over $20.00USD with shipping.
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@...m, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> Judging from what you said, I could actually repair this unit, except for one thing, maybe. I have several dead ones I use for spare parts, and so I have an extra hinge and extra keyboard I could put into it. However, the Dallas RTC chip will be a big problem. ON the 1530's you can replace the RTC with the 12880 that is still available, but this doesn't work on the 1520's. The BIOS is still too primitive and if you try to replace the chip it wil lock the boot up into an irreversible mode of asking for a password BIOS, for which of course, there isn't one, and you can't ever boot it up. So unless you can repair the old one already there, the MoBo is shot as far as that particular problem is concerned. However, I could possibly do it. How much are you asking for the entire unit?
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "nick_zravre" <GBabecki@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, KenS <engrken@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Rick:
> > >
> > > Which model of hard drive does it contain? I assume it is a Conner.
> > >
> > > Ken S.
> > >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > It is a Conner CP-3044. The drive will be formatted, primarily so others will not see my horrible config.sys and autoexec.bat settings, never quite recovered from the Windows transition... It may be of importance to know that any parts from the 1520 would be shipped out from PA 19525.
> >
>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 18:20:13 -0000
From: "nick_zravre"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1520 Available
If Jeriddian doesn't want it, or if I can make a larger profit I'll part if out.
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "engrken04" <engrken@...> wrote:
>
> Nick,
> If you decide to sell it as parts, I (and probably others) would like to get into the bidding for the CP-3044.
>
> Ken S.
> ----------------
>
> > > It is a Conner CP-3044. The drive will be formatted, primarily so others will not see my horrible config.sys and autoexec.bat settings, never quite recovered from the Windows transition... It may be of importance to know that any parts from the 1520 would be shipped out from PA 19525.
>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 03:20:05 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1520 Available
Okay Nick,
I'm willing to give you $50 plus shipping for it, lock, stock, and barrel
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "nick_zravre" <GBabecki@...> wrote:
>
> If Jeriddian doesn't want it, or if I can make a larger profit I'll part if out.
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "engrken04" <engrken@> wrote:
> >
> > Nick,
> > If you decide to sell it as parts, I (and probably others) would like to get into the bidding for the CP-3044.
> >
> > Ken S.
> > ----------------
> >
> > > > It is a Conner CP-3044. The drive will be formatted, primarily so others will not see my horrible config.sys and autoexec.bat settings, never quite recovered from the Windows transition... It may be of importance to know that any parts from the 1520 would be shipped out from PA 19525.
> >
>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:54:40 -0000
From: "nick_zravre"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1520 Available
Well, I would be willing to accept that offer, it is about what I payed originally. First, however, do you live in the US? Also, I would only be able to accept a US Postal Money Order. You can contact me at GBabecki(NOSPAM)@dejazzd(NOSPAM).com
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> Okay Nick,
>
> I'm willing to give you $50 plus shipping for it, lock, stock, and barrel
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "nick_zravre" <GBabecki@> wrote:
> >
> > If Jeriddian doesn't want it, or if I can make a larger profit I'll part if out.
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "engrken04" <engrken@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Nick,
> > > If you decide to sell it as parts, I (and probably others) would like to get into the bidding for the CP-3044.
> > >
> > > Ken S.
> > > ----------------
> > >
> > > > > It is a Conner CP-3044. The drive will be formatted, primarily so others will not see my horrible config.sys and autoexec.bat settings, never quite recovered from the Windows transition... It may be of importance to know that any parts from the 1520 would be shipped out from PA 19525.
> > >
> >
>
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 04:30:25 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1520 Available
Nick,
I've sent you a reply, assuming you take out the (NOSPAM) parts of the name. You should receive it.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "nick_zravre" <GBabecki@...> wrote:
>
> Well, I would be willing to accept that offer, it is about what I payed originally. First, however, do you live in the US? Also, I would only be able to accept a US Postal Money Order. You can contact me at GBabecki(NOSPAM)@dejazzd(NOSPAM).com
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> >
> > Okay Nick,
> >
> > I'm willing to give you $50 plus shipping for it, lock, stock, and barrel
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "nick_zravre" <GBabecki@> wrote:
> > >
> > > If Jeriddian doesn't want it, or if I can make a larger profit I'll part if out.
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "engrken04" <engrken@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Nick,
> > > > If you decide to sell it as parts, I (and probably others) would like to get into the bidding for the CP-3044.
> > > >
> > > > Ken S.
> > > > ----------------
> > > >
> > > > > > It is a Conner CP-3044. The drive will be formatted, primarily so others will not see my horrible config.sys and autoexec.bat settings, never quite recovered from the Windows transition... It may be of importance to know that any parts from the 1520 would be shipped out from PA 19525.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 22:50:30 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Some further information on the Dallas RTC chip.
In my attempts to replace the Dallas RTC chip in some computers, I never got it to work on the 1520, but it did work on the 1530. I have since found the following info from the Dallas Semiconductor web site:
24-pin DIP Real-Time Clock (RTC) plus RAM. Designed to be a direct replacement for the DS1287, BQ3287MT, M48T86, TH6887, OEC12C887, et al. The DS12887 is identical in form fit and function to the DS1287 and has an additional 64 bytes of general-purpose RAM.
NOTE: The DS12887 CANNOT replace the DS1287 in 80286-based computers.
This product is an ESD-class device. It cannot be returned for exchange or credit if the package has been opened. Please read the RTC Module FAQ in its entirety BEFORE ordering or replacing an RTC module.
Replacing the DS1287/DS12887 Real-Time Clock in a Personal Computer
Will replacing the clock module fix my PC?
Unfortunately, replacing your clock module, even with the exact part number, does not guarantee that the PC will work afterwards. Here are some of the issues:
The DS1287 is obsolete. In many cases, a DS12887 will replace it. However, on some systems, the BIOS or chip set will access the wrong address partition in the DS12887. In those cases, the system will not work.
Some PCs, after replacing the clock, will not properly initialize the new one. Apparently, some BIOS versions expect the RTC to be partially initialized before it is placed on the motherboard. Only the manufacturer of the motherboard will know how the clock needs to be initialized. PCs with marginal power supplies, especially if they have a large number of drives, cards and/or memory, may cause the new clock to fail. The clock can fail immediately, or within a few days or weeks.
In addition, you must be careful when replacing the module. If you insert the module backwards, or bend a pin while inserting it, you can damage the motherboard and/or the module. Improper handling also can cause ESD damage. The power should always be off when replacing the module. If you are in any way unsure of what you are doing, you should have a trained technician do the work.
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 23:46:13 -0000
From: "zentaro04"
Subject: GRIDCASE 1550SX and cmos battery
Hi All
I just got a Gridcase 1550sx, and at the power up
it show me the following message...
Phoenix 80386 ROM BIOS Plus version1.10 00
640 K base 01024 Extended
Diskette drive 0 seek failure
automatic configuration failure
Hard disk failure
Invalid config information
Floppy driva A failed initialization test
strike F1
I read the old messages about the grid 1550sx and I found that the problem probably is the cmos battery dead.
I opened it and I found ther is no battery inside, only a 9volt battery clip and a small broken fuse attached to the cable.
Which kind of battery I have to look to replace the old one?
I tried with two AA rechargeable battery but nothing is happened
thank you Andrea
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 00:18:52 -0000
From: "zentaro04"
Subject: GRIDCASE 1550SX and cmos battery
Hi,
I removed the hard disk and I found the cmos battery! is a 3,6 volt lithium battery. and the battery clip?
Andrea
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 04:12:21 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRIDCASE 1550SX and cmos battery
Hi, Andrea,
It sounds like a tandiran battery. It's easy enough to replace. Let us know if solves the problem with the boot up.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "zentaro04" <zentaro.cane@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I removed the hard disk and I found the cmos battery! is a 3,6 volt lithium battery. and the battery clip?
> Andrea
>
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 19:43:06 +0200
From: Andrea
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRIDCASE 1550SX and cmos battery
Hi, Phil
I found the battery to my local electronic store
but i don't know wich kind of battery I have to look for
the 9v clip.
Andrea
This is an old post on a rob's grid board
Posted by Helmut S. on May 01, 19103 at 14:36:30:
Hi friends,
I have a Gridcase 1550sx and I don't know the Bios PW anymore (didn't
use it for years). The BIOS is version 1.10 00 (10/11/90) from Phoenix
I tried Bios PS cracker from the internet. But I can't get out from the
screen where it asks for the PW. I don't know how to get to DOS in order
to run the cracker SW.
I tried also to remove the AC power/rech. battery, 7,2 VDC rech. battery
inside the Grid and the 3.5 V Lithium battery, also inside.
jeriddian wrote:
>
>
> Hi, Andrea,
>
> It sounds like a tandiran battery. It's easy enough to replace. Let us
> know if solves the problem with the boot up.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, "zentaro04"
> <zentaro.cane@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I removed the hard disk and I found the cmos battery! is a 3,6 volt
> lithium battery. and the battery clip?
> > Andrea
> >
>
>
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 16:13:42 -0700
From: jim s
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRIDCASE 1550SX and cmos battery
Andrea,
I am concerned you are assuming that the battery is 9v. It was common
for one to have a 2 aa cell holder (radio shack) with the same
connection, which could be 3 v to attach to that.
I would wait for a reply from someone here who knows before attaching
anything though.
Jim
Andrea wrote:
> Hi, Phil
> I found the battery to my local electronic store
> but i don't know wich kind of battery I have to look for
> the 9v clip.
> Andrea
>
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 16:14:55 -0700
From: jim s
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRIDCASE 1550SX and cmos battery
Andrea,
I am concerned you are assuming that the battery is 9v. It was common
for one to have a 2 aa cell holder (radio shack) with the same
connection, which could be 3 v to attach to that. Obviously you could
fry something with a 9v battery.
I would wait for a reply from someone here who knows before attaching
anything to that connector. I don't have a grid, or a system that takes
both the lithium battery referred to, as well as one that attaches to a
clip as you describe. My experience is that you get one or the other
but not both.
Jim
Andrea wrote:
> Hi, Phil
> I found the battery to my local electronic store
> but i don't know wich kind of battery I have to look for
> the 9v clip.
> Andrea
>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 07:49:47 -0000
From: "yetanotheridea"
Subject: Experiences with a GRiDCase3 EXP
I just received my first GRiD laptop in the form of a GRiDCase3 EXP. The
EXP part refers to the expansion bay which is screwed onto the bottom of
the laptop. I removed the expansion bay and it has a full-length card
installed which contains some sort of device monitoring board containing
a Z80B and 8530SCC, relays, and multiple RS-232 interfaces.
This machine came with an external floppy drive (720K) but no floppy
cable, does anyone have the pinout for the DB-25 connectors (on either
end)? - I notice that pin 1 is blocked off on both floppy connectors.
This variant has the red-plasma screen, an internal hard drive, and no
internal floppy.
Needless to say the GRiDCase3 did not boot on arrival, but after
removing the hard drive cable it starts up from ROM into MS-DOS 3.21
After scouring the messages here and the remnants of the heavily spammed
GRiD forum at www.pd.com/gb15xx/wwwboard.html
I have some questions that I have not found (or overlooked) an answer
for:
1. If the battery is dead so the drive geometry cannot be recognized
should the drive still start up? that is if my drive is ok should I hear
it spinning? I am not sure if these early GRiDs have power up control or
not. At this stage I assume no noise from the hard drive tells me that
it is completely dead (from stiction or worse).
2. I have one EPROM below the screen labeled GRiD-OS COMM.CODE 3.1.6
12/85 300516-00 - is the "COMM" part referring to "common" or
"communications"? for example do I have something like GRiDTerm perhaps?
or is it just common code for GRiD-OS?
3. After startup I get the A> prompt and can start the GRiD-OS emulator
via "GRID.EXE" and Integrid 3.3.0 starts and I can move around the
menus, however without any local storage it is not possible to save
documents and there are no additional programs. If I download Programs
from this group and manage to get the floppy drive working I assume
placing Programs on a disk will allow the various GRiD-OS applications
(like GWrite, GPlan etc) to work?
Does anyone have a copy of GRiD-BASIC to play with please?
cheers.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 07:38:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Experiences with a GRiDCase3 EXP
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello, Nigel.
Glad to know you received a Grid and it's partially working.
Let's see if I can answer some of your questions.
#1. Yes, the drive should still spin even if the internal battery is dead. Of course, it won't be recognized by the BIOS, but it still should spin.
#2. I don't know, but I assume that it means "common."
#3. I'll look to see if I have Grid Basic. However, GW-Basic will probably work. I think I have a copy of that around. If I do, I'll be sure to get it to you.
Good luck,
-Shawn
________________________________
From: yetanotheridea <nigel.d.williams@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 3:49:47 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Experiences with a GRiDCase3 EXP
I just received my first GRiD laptop in the form of a GRiDCase3 EXP. The
EXP part refers to the expansion bay which is screwed onto the bottom of
the laptop. I removed the expansion bay and it has a full-length card
installed which contains some sort of device monitoring board containing
a Z80B and 8530SCC, relays, and multiple RS-232 interfaces.
This machine came with an external floppy drive (720K) but no floppy
cable, does anyone have the pinout for the DB-25 connectors (on either
end)? - I notice that pin 1 is blocked off on both floppy connectors.
This variant has the red-plasma screen, an internal hard drive, and no
internal floppy.
Needless to say the GRiDCase3 did not boot on arrival, but after
removing the hard drive cable it starts up from ROM into MS-DOS 3.21
After scouring the messages here and the remnants of the heavily spammed
GRiD forum at www.pd.com/gb15xx/wwwboard.html
I have some questions that I have not found (or overlooked) an answer
for:
1. If the battery is dead so the drive geometry cannot be recognized
should the drive still start up? that is if my drive is ok should I hear
it spinning? I am not sure if these early GRiDs have power up control or
not. At this stage I assume no noise from the hard drive tells me that
it is completely dead (from stiction or worse).
2. I have one EPROM below the screen labeled GRiD-OS COMM.CODE 3.1.6
12/85 300516-00 - is the "COMM" part referring to "common" or
"communications"? for example do I have something like GRiDTerm perhaps?
or is it just common code for GRiD-OS?
3. After startup I get the A> prompt and can start the GRiD-OS emulator
via "GRID.EXE" and Integrid 3.3.0 starts and I can move around the
menus, however without any local storage it is not possible to save
documents and there are no additional programs. If I download Programs
from this group and manage to get the floppy drive working I assume
placing Programs on a disk will allow the various GRiD-OS applications
(like GWrite, GPlan etc) to work?
Does anyone have a copy of GRiD-BASIC to play with please?
cheers.
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 07:37:48 -0000
From: "yetanotheridea"
Subject: GRiD product list started
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have started to construct a list of all the GRiD products at the link
below:
GRiD product list
<http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=rvh_1roHSsEXEkJSI9tO9gw&output=h\
tml>
There is very little information anywhere on what they made, so I have
extracted model numbers from posts to the GRiDBoard and this group so it
is likely incomplete.
I understand GRiD also released desktop computers too, and had a range
of "server" products (their GRiDCentral system?).
I'll keep adding as I find more out but at least it captures what is
easily found.
Additions, corrections, welcome.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 07:23:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD product list started
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Way cool, Nigel.
Or maybe you'd say "brilliant!" :-)
FYI: The 1550SX was a 80386SX.
-Shawn
________________________________
From: yetanotheridea <nigel.d.williams@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 3:37:48 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD product list started
I have started to construct a list of all the GRiD products at the link below:
GRiD product list
>
There is very little information anywhere on what they made, so I have extracted model numbers from posts to the GRiDBoard and this group so it is likely incomplete.
I understand GRiD also released desktop computers too, and had a range of "server" products (their GRiDCentral system?).
I'll keep adding as I find more out but at least it captures what is easily found.
Additions, corrections, welcome.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:33:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD product list started
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
That's quite commendable, but you really should separate the Grids into those made by the Grid company, those made by Tandy after it took over, and those made by AST.
They were really different computers from the original Grids.. For example the Grid 1450, DEC 320p, and a Tandy LT whose model I can't remember were all made by a japanese company, and their parts were interchangeable. The only difference being the logos. Also they were made of plastic rather than the magnesium cases Grid produced.
Lawrence
--- On Wed, 7/22/09, yetanotheridea <nigel.d.williams@...> wrote:
From: yetanotheridea <nigel.d.williams@...>
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD product list started
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Received: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 2:37 AM
I have started to construct a list of all the GRiD products at the link below:
GRiD product list
There is very little information anywhere on what they made, so I have extracted model numbers from posts to the GRiDBoard and this group so it is likely incomplete.
I understand GRiD also released desktop computers too, and had a range of "server" products (their GRiDCentral system?).
I'll keep adding as I find more out but at least it captures what is easily found.
Additions, corrections, welcome.
__________________________________________________________________
The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:51:33 -0000
From: "yetanotheridea"
Subject: Re: GRiD product list started
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...>
wrote:
> ...separate the Grids into those made by the Grid company,
> those made by Tandy after it took over, and those made by AST.
I have added an OEM column. For GRiD's history OEM almost captures the
idea of who originally made it, although I understand even GRiD did not
actually manufacturer anything, they were an integrator and outsourced
to various suppliers for the subsystems.
> ...the Grid 1450, DEC 320p, and a Tandy LT whose model I can't
> remember were all made by a japanese company
I need to establish the time sequence of products and then mark the
transition between GRiD->Tandy->AST. We are currently missing detail of
when the products were released (Year column).
I have added your comments to the document, if you have more detail
please post.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:58:32 -0000
From: "yetanotheridea"
Subject: Re: GRiD product list started
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "yetanotheridea"
<nigel.d.williams@...> wrote:
> I need to establish the time sequence of products and then mark the
> transition between GRiD->Tandy->AST.
I placed the history from griduk.com into the list (see Official history
link at the top of the document). This helps lump together model series
for some of them by year of release.
GRiD Product List
<http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=rvh_1roHSsEXEkJSI9tO9gw&output=h\
tml>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:20:11 -0000
From: "anarchyoz"
Subject: GRiD Case case wanted.
Hi guys,
I hope this doesn't break any rules. I am looking for a Grid case laptop in pretty much any condition. If you have a dead'un you don't want/need I will happily take it off your hands.
My slightly crazy plan is to use it to house a more modern laptops internals. Has anyone done this before? someone has to have, no?...................................seriously?
If there is an unloved working unit I'd love to have one of those too.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:46:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD Case case wanted.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Anarchyoz,
You're not breaking any rules. Has any one done this before? Not that I'm aware of. I definately see some challenges in getting it to fit. But, nothing is impossible given enough time and money.
Good luck,
-Shawn
________________________________
From: anarchyoz <n.bucher@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 7:20:11 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD Case case wanted.
Hi guys,
I hope this doesn't break any rules. I am looking for a Grid case laptop in pretty much any condition. If you have a dead'un you don't want/need I will happily take it off your hands.
My slightly crazy plan is to use it to house a more modern laptops internals. Has anyone done this before? someone has to have, no?...................................seriously?
If there is an unloved working unit I'd love to have one of those too.
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:26:16 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiD Case case wanted.
Hi, anarchyoz,
I would say it simply isn't a good idea to try and house another laptop inside an old GRiD Housing. It just isn't designed for it. You'd be better off trying to have a case made for the laptop you want to protect, or maybe buy (if you have the money)one of the newer UK Grids if you can even get one ( I don't think you can).
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "anarchyoz" <n.bucher@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I hope this doesn't break any rules. I am looking for a Grid case laptop in pretty much any condition. If you have a dead'un you don't want/need I will happily take it off your hands.
>
> My slightly crazy plan is to use it to house a more modern laptops internals. Has anyone done this before? someone has to have, no?...................................seriously?
>
> If there is an unloved working unit I'd love to have one of those too.
>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:32:12 -0400
From: robert
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD Case case wanted.
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
lookup "steampunk laptop" on google. your gonna see some real cool
repackings of laptops.
robert
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 9:26 PM, jeriddian <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, anarchyoz,
>
> I would say it simply isn't a good idea to try and house another laptop
> inside an old GRiD Housing. It just isn't designed for it. You'd be better
> off trying to have a case made for the laptop you want to protect, or maybe
> buy (if you have the money)one of the newer UK Grids if you can even get one
> ( I don't think you can).
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com <RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "anarchyoz" <n.bucher@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > I hope this doesn't break any rules. I am looking for a Grid case laptop
> in pretty much any condition. If you have a dead'un you don't want/need I
> will happily take it off your hands.
> >
> > My slightly crazy plan is to use it to house a more modern laptops
> internals. Has anyone done this before? someone has to have,
> no?...................................seriously?
> >
> > If there is an unloved working unit I'd love to have one of those too.
> >
>
>
>
--
73 de ke4mcl
"contesting on ham radio is like racing ford pintos, win or lose, other
people are still gonna laugh at you!"
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:42:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD Case case wanted.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Amazing!!
The "Datamancer" is is a piece of art! How did he make the keys? Amazing!
-Shawn
________________________________
From: robert <dcat4955@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 9:32:12 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD Case case wanted.
lookup "steampunk laptop" on google. your gonna see some real cool repackings of laptops.
robert
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 9:26 PM, jeriddian <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>Hi, anarchyoz,
>
>I would say it simply isn't a good idea to try and house another laptop inside an old GRiD Housing. It just isn't designed for it. You'd be better off trying to have a case made for the laptop you want to protect, or maybe buy (if you have the money)one of the newer UK Grids if you can even get one ( I don't think you can).
>
>Phil
>
>--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "anarchyoz" <n.bucher@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> I hope this doesn't break any rules. I am looking for a Grid case laptop in pretty much any condition. If you have a dead'un you don't want/need I will happily take it off your hands.
>>
>> My slightly crazy plan is to use it to house a more modern laptops internals. Has anyone done this before? someone has to have, no?...................................seriously?
>>
>> If there is an unloved working unit I'd love to have one of those too.
>>
>
>
--
73 de ke4mcl
"contesting on ham radio is like racing ford pintos, win or lose, other people are still gonna laugh at you!"
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:16:39 -0400
From: robert
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD Case case wanted.
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
some guys recycle keys off antique typewriters
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:52:39 -0000
From: "ansoneinstein@..."
Subject: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
Hi all,
I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the memcheck I got the following warning:
Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
This was followed by:
Strike the F1 key to continue
At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the cursor blinking.
It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the next ACM meeting.
Any help would be appreciated,
Thanks,
Anson
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:25:30 -0500
From: Charles Ford
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
Anson:
After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a floppy.
Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver known as
the three finger salute.)
This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a default
device table.
The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1> the
system should boot normally.
Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
ansoneinstein@... wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> memcheck I got the following warning:
>
> Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
>
> This was followed by:
>
> Strike the F1 key to continue
>
> At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> cursor blinking.
> It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
>
> The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> next ACM meeting.
>
> Any help would be appreciated,
> Thanks,
> Anson
>
>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 05:25:27 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
Dear Anson,
Try what Charles has recommended, but if your computer still fails to boot up, you may consider replacing the internal Lithium Ion battery (depending upon which motherboard version you have). There have been occasions when I bought a unit and got it in the mail and the thing booted up fine the first couple of times, and then it failed after that to boot up. The internal batteries were only meant to last ten years or so, and of course these computers are more than 25 years old, so when you buy one with the original internal battery, it's going to be so weak that it will either be completely dead, or have only enough charge for one or two more boots. Now if you have a motherboard version where the battery is the outside tandiran battery, that's not to hard to replace. However, if you have a computer MoBo with a Dallas Real Time Chip in it, then things are going to be complicated, because the battery is inside the chip itself, and it is a chore to replace the battery. You can't replace the chip, so you have to do a little surgery on it to replace the battery to get it working again. If this is what you have, and are interested in doing this, reply, and I will go into more detail. Best of luck to you.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@..." <signupae@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the memcheck I got the following warning:
>
> Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
>
> This was followed by:
>
> Strike the F1 key to continue
>
> At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the cursor blinking.
> It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
>
> The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the next ACM meeting.
>
> Any help would be appreciated,
> Thanks,
> Anson
>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:51:16 -0000
From: "ansoneinstein@..."
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
Ok,
I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the batt.
I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured that it still worked.
I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much easier to replace the battery.
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@...> wrote:
>
> Anson:
>
> After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a floppy.
> Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver known as
> the three finger salute.)
> This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a default
> device table.
>
> The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1> the
> system should boot normally.
> Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
>
>
> ansoneinstein@... wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > memcheck I got the following warning:
> >
> > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> >
> > This was followed by:
> >
> > Strike the F1 key to continue
> >
> > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > cursor blinking.
> > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> >
> > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > next ACM meeting.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated,
> > Thanks,
> > Anson
> >
> >
>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:43:39 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
Dear Anson.
You can buy the tadiran batteries online at most battery outlet sites. It's quite inexpensive.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@...m, "ansoneinstein@..." <signupae@...> wrote:
>
> Ok,
> I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
>
> I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
>
> I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the batt.
> I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured that it still worked.
> I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much easier to replace the battery.
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> >
> > Anson:
> >
> > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a floppy.
> > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver known as
> > the three finger salute.)
> > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a default
> > device table.
> >
> > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1> the
> > system should boot normally.
> > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> >
> >
> > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > >
> > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > >
> > > This was followed by:
> > >
> > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > >
> > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > cursor blinking.
> > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > >
> > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > next ACM meeting.
> > >
> > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > Thanks,
> > > Anson
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:37:35 -0500
From: Charles Ford
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
Anson:
Do you hear the HDD startup, whir and rattle?
ansoneinstein@... wrote:
>
>
> Ok,
> I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
>
> I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
>
> I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> batt.
> I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> that it still worked.
> I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> easier to replace the battery.
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> <charlieford1@...> wrote:
> >
> > Anson:
> >
> > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> floppy.
> > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> known as
> > the three finger salute.)
> > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> default
> > device table.
> >
> > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> the
> > system should boot normally.
> > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> >
> >
> > ansoneinstein@... wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > >
> > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > >
> > > This was followed by:
> > >
> > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > >
> > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > cursor blinking.
> > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > >
> > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > next ACM meeting.
> > >
> > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > Thanks,
> > > Anson
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 02:03:30 -0000
From: "ansoneinstein@..."
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
I'm going to try that and hopefully that fixes the problems. But then again, it might still be the hard drive.
I'll check back in a while.
Anson
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Anson.
>
> You can buy the tadiran batteries online at most battery outlet sites. It's quite inexpensive.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> >
> > Ok,
> > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> >
> > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> >
> > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the batt.
> > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured that it still worked.
> > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much easier to replace the battery.
> >
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Anson:
> > >
> > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a floppy.
> > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver known as
> > > the three finger salute.)
> > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a default
> > > device table.
> > >
> > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1> the
> > > system should boot normally.
> > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > >
> > >
> > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > >
> > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > >
> > > > This was followed by:
> > > >
> > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > >
> > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > >
> > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > >
> > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Anson
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 02:36:26 -0000
From: "ansoneinstein@..."
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
Alright,
When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
Anson
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@...> wrote:
>
> Anson:
>
> Do you hear the HDD startup, whir and rattle?
> ansoneinstein@... wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Ok,
> > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> >
> > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> >
> > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > batt.
> > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > that it still worked.
> > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > easier to replace the battery.
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Anson:
> > >
> > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > floppy.
> > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > known as
> > > the three finger salute.)
> > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > default
> > > device table.
> > >
> > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > the
> > > system should boot normally.
> > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > >
> > >
> > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > >
> > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > >
> > > > This was followed by:
> > > >
> > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > >
> > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > >
> > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > >
> > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Anson
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 03:20:41 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
Okay,
I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.
Phil
Since
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@..." <signupae@...> wrote:
>
> Alright,
> When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
>
> Anson
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> >
> > Anson:
> >
> > Do you hear the HDD startup, whir and rattle?
> > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ok,
> > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > >
> > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > >
> > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > batt.
> > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > > that it still worked.
> > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > easier to replace the battery.
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Anson:
> > > >
> > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > floppy.
> > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > known as
> > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > default
> > > > device table.
> > > >
> > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > the
> > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > >
> > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > >
> > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > >
> > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > >
> > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > >
> > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Anson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 04:36:06 -0000
From: "ansoneinstein@..."
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
I can try to get a picture.
So, the drive back panel is connected to the mobo with two double layered ribbon cables.
When both cables are plugged in the computer won't boot
when neither cable is plugged in it won't boot
but when the cable closest to the screen is plugged in it boots
As to the cmos battery, I'm getting a couple new ones soon.
So, any ideas about the hdd and cables?
That is really confusing me ...
Anson
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> Okay,
>
> I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.
>
> Phil
>
> Since
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> >
> > Alright,
> > When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> > If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> > but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
> >
> > Anson
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Anson:
> > >
> > > Do you hear the HDD startup, whir and rattle?
> > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ok,
> > > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > > >
> > > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > > >
> > > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > > batt.
> > > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > > > that it still worked.
> > > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > > easier to replace the battery.
> > > >
> > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Anson:
> > > > >
> > > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > > floppy.
> > > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > > known as
> > > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > > default
> > > > > device table.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > > the
> > > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Anson
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 05:08:22 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
Okay, I see what you did.
The front cable goes to the floppy drive. The back cable goes to the HDD. By having either cable connected, you supply power to both units. This is what happens. Because the battery is dead (my belief), the data in the CMOS circuits cannot be read, thus the computer BIOS will not be able to see the HDD. But the BIOS has to detect that the HDD is physically there first before trying to access it. When you have both cables plugged in, the computer BIOS recognizes the HDD is attached, then tries to access it, but the CMOS circuits are down. Therefore it hangs. When both cables are unplugged, the computer cannot recognize either a floppy or the HDD being physically attached and therefore will hang again as it requires at least one of these devices in order to boot up. This BIOS is quite primitive. When you leave the floppy drive connected, but leave the HDD disconnected, the computer BIOS looks for the HDD, but eventually sees there isn't one physically connected, and it therefore bypasses trying to access it. This bypasses the code that would hang you up trying to access the CMOS circuit data. This leads the computer to go on with booting and tries to access the floppy drive, which should be successful.
I believe that is how it is happening. I still believe the new battery will solve your problems. But I must admit there is a chance the HDD is bad. These old Conner were notorious for going out like that. I don't think that is the case, however because you mentioned that you had been able to boot it up before and make it work. Obviously the HDD worked then, right? It would be incredibly bad luck if the HDD suddenly failed on you then. If the HDD is bad, that is going to be a problem, because replacing it is exetremely difficult due to rarity of finding a replacement. Putting in a new HDD can be done, but it would have to be done in one of two ways. First, find a suitable replacement. These old GRiDcases were hardcoded into the BIOS to accept only three possible old style Conner drives. Finding these old drives is a real chore, Believe me, we've been looking around for a long time and they just aren't around anymore after 25 years. The company got bought out by SeaGate in the late 1980's or so. You can fit a 20 Mb, 40Mb, or a 100 Mb (and only these particular models: CP3020, CP3040, CP3044, or CP30104). As I said, it is virtually impossible to find these drives any more. The second option is to fit another hard drive into the computer.
If you do this, it is a rather involved procedure. First, the drive should be less than 512 MB, otherwise the OS probably wouldn't see it. Second it must have the same pin configuration as the old Conner. If you compare the pin configuration of a modern ATA with this, you will see how different it is. They stopped making this old style configuration in the late 1980's, so a replacement drive would have to come from that era. Also, it is best to use another Conner model from that time period. If you find a suitable drive, the problem then becomes trying to adapt it to the 1520. To do this, you have to alter the BIOS code. Both Shawn and I have done this, using a CPS420 HDD, a CP30170, and a couple of other drives and we made this work. But we had to use an EPROM burner setup using replacement EPROM chips which replace the old BIOS chips in the computer. (These are located directly underneath the video card, which is the secondary card plugged directly onto the MoBo. This is the same card where the extra sockets for ROM chips are located.) We downloaded the BIOS code and changed it in certain places, then burned the new BIOS onto new EPROM chips and put these in the BIOS chip slots of the computer. This allowed the computer to recognize the new HDD's. The entire procedure is laid out in our files section. So far we have been successful in using other old Conner drives. None of us have tried a different brand yet, so we don't know if that will work, although I suspect it will. But as you can see, this is a real bear. So I hope your HDD is okay.
Anyway, let us see how the new battery does, and we'll go from there.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@..." <signupae@...> wrote:
>
> I can try to get a picture.
> So, the drive back panel is connected to the mobo with two double layered ribbon cables.
>
> When both cables are plugged in the computer won't boot
> when neither cable is plugged in it won't boot
> but when the cable closest to the screen is plugged in it boots
>
> As to the cmos battery, I'm getting a couple new ones soon.
>
> So, any ideas about the hdd and cables?
> That is really confusing me ...
>
> Anson
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> >
> > Okay,
> >
> > I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > Since
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Alright,
> > > When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> > > If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> > > but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
> > >
> > > Anson
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Anson:
> > > >
> > > > Do you hear the HDD startup, whir and rattle?
> > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok,
> > > > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > > > >
> > > > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > > > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > > > >
> > > > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > > > batt.
> > > > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > > > > that it still worked.
> > > > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > > > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > > > easier to replace the battery.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > > > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > > > floppy.
> > > > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > > > known as
> > > > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > > > default
> > > > > > device table.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > > > the
> > > > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Anson
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 22:14:20 -0000
From: "ansoneinstein@..."
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
It'll probably be a week or two before I get the batteries, but I'll let you know what happens when I do.
Thanks for the help!
Anson
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> Okay, I see what you did.
>
> The front cable goes to the floppy drive. The back cable goes to the HDD. By having either cable connected, you supply power to both units. This is what happens. Because the battery is dead (my belief), the data in the CMOS circuits cannot be read, thus the computer BIOS will not be able to see the HDD. But the BIOS has to detect that the HDD is physically there first before trying to access it. When you have both cables plugged in, the computer BIOS recognizes the HDD is attached, then tries to access it, but the CMOS circuits are down. Therefore it hangs. When both cables are unplugged, the computer cannot recognize either a floppy or the HDD being physically attached and therefore will hang again as it requires at least one of these devices in order to boot up. This BIOS is quite primitive. When you leave the floppy drive connected, but leave the HDD disconnected, the computer BIOS looks for the HDD, but eventually sees there isn't one physically connected, and it therefore bypasses trying to access it. This bypasses the code that would hang you up trying to access the CMOS circuit data. This leads the computer to go on with booting and tries to access the floppy drive, which should be successful.
> I believe that is how it is happening. I still believe the new battery will solve your problems. But I must admit there is a chance the HDD is bad. These old Conner were notorious for going out like that. I don't think that is the case, however because you mentioned that you had been able to boot it up before and make it work. Obviously the HDD worked then, right? It would be incredibly bad luck if the HDD suddenly failed on you then. If the HDD is bad, that is going to be a problem, because replacing it is exetremely difficult due to rarity of finding a replacement. Putting in a new HDD can be done, but it would have to be done in one of two ways. First, find a suitable replacement. These old GRiDcases were hardcoded into the BIOS to accept only three possible old style Conner drives. Finding these old drives is a real chore, Believe me, we've been looking around for a long time and they just aren't around anymore after 25 years. The company got bought out by SeaGate in the late 1980's or so. You can fit a 20 Mb, 40Mb, or a 100 Mb (and only these particular models: CP3020, CP3040, CP3044, or CP30104). As I said, it is virtually impossible to find these drives any more. The second option is to fit another hard drive into the computer.
> If you do this, it is a rather involved procedure. First, the drive should be less than 512 MB, otherwise the OS probably wouldn't see it. Second it must have the same pin configuration as the old Conner. If you compare the pin configuration of a modern ATA with this, you will see how different it is. They stopped making this old style configuration in the late 1980's, so a replacement drive would have to come from that era. Also, it is best to use another Conner model from that time period. If you find a suitable drive, the problem then becomes trying to adapt it to the 1520. To do this, you have to alter the BIOS code. Both Shawn and I have done this, using a CPS420 HDD, a CP30170, and a couple of other drives and we made this work. But we had to use an EPROM burner setup using replacement EPROM chips which replace the old BIOS chips in the computer. (These are located directly underneath the video card, which is the secondary card plugged directly onto the MoBo. This is the same card where the extra sockets for ROM chips are located.) We downloaded the BIOS code and changed it in certain places, then burned the new BIOS onto new EPROM chips and put these in the BIOS chip slots of the computer. This allowed the computer to recognize the new HDD's. The entire procedure is laid out in our files section. So far we have been successful in using other old Conner drives. None of us have tried a different brand yet, so we don't know if that will work, although I suspect it will. But as you can see, this is a real bear. So I hope your HDD is okay.
> Anyway, let us see how the new battery does, and we'll go from there.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> >
> > I can try to get a picture.
> > So, the drive back panel is connected to the mobo with two double layered ribbon cables.
> >
> > When both cables are plugged in the computer won't boot
> > when neither cable is plugged in it won't boot
> > but when the cable closest to the screen is plugged in it boots
> >
> > As to the cmos battery, I'm getting a couple new ones soon.
> >
> > So, any ideas about the hdd and cables?
> > That is really confusing me ...
> >
> > Anson
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Okay,
> > >
> > > I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > Since
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Alright,
> > > > When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> > > > If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> > > > but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
> > > >
> > > > Anson
> > > >
> > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Anson:
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you hear the HDD startup, whir and rattle?
> > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok,
> > > > > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > > > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > > > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > > > > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > > > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > > > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > > > > batt.
> > > > > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > > > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > > > > > that it still worked.
> > > > > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > > > > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > > > > easier to replace the battery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > > > > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > > > > floppy.
> > > > > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > > > > known as
> > > > > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > > > > default
> > > > > > > device table.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > Anson
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 22:23:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Anson,
Phil asked the question, but I didn't see an answer: when you said that you disconnected the hard drive cable, what cable are you referring to? I must have missed something because Phil said he understood what you did, but I'm just slow.
As you know, the hard and floppy drive interface is a solid connection from the back of the drive in to the motherboard.
Thanks,
-Shawn
________________________________
From: "ansoneinstein@...m" <signupae@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 6:14:20 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
It'll probably be a week or two before I get the batteries, but I'll let you know what happens when I do.
Thanks for the help!
Anson
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> Okay, I see what you did.
>
> The front cable goes to the floppy drive. The back cable goes to the HDD. By having either cable connected, you supply power to both units. This is what happens. Because the battery is dead (my belief), the data in the CMOS circuits cannot be read, thus the computer BIOS will not be able to see the HDD. But the BIOS has to detect that the HDD is physically there first before trying to access it. When you have both cables plugged in, the computer BIOS recognizes the HDD is attached, then tries to access it, but the CMOS circuits are down. Therefore it hangs. When both cables are unplugged, the computer cannot recognize either a floppy or the HDD being physically attached and therefore will hang again as it requires at least one of these devices in order to boot up. This BIOS is quite primitive. When you leave the floppy drive connected, but leave the HDD disconnected, the computer BIOS looks for the HDD, but eventually sees there isn't one
physically connected, and it therefore bypasses trying to access it. This bypasses the code that would hang you up trying to access the CMOS circuit data. This leads the computer to go on with booting and tries to access the floppy drive, which should be successful.
> I believe that is how it is happening. I still believe the new battery will solve your problems. But I must admit there is a chance the HDD is bad. These old Conner were notorious for going out like that. I don't think that is the case, however because you mentioned that you had been able to boot it up before and make it work. Obviously the HDD worked then, right? It would be incredibly bad luck if the HDD suddenly failed on you then. If the HDD is bad, that is going to be a problem, because replacing it is exetremely difficult due to rarity of finding a replacement. Putting in a new HDD can be done, but it would have to be done in one of two ways. First, find a suitable replacement. These old GRiDcases were hardcoded into the BIOS to accept only three possible old style Conner drives. Finding these old drives is a real chore, Believe me, we've been looking around for a long time and they just aren't around anymore after 25 years. The company
got bought out by SeaGate in the late 1980's or so. You can fit a 20 Mb, 40Mb, or a 100 Mb (and only these particular models: CP3020, CP3040, CP3044, or CP30104). As I said, it is virtually impossible to find these drives any more. The second option is to fit another hard drive into the computer.
> If you do this, it is a rather involved procedure. First, the drive should be less than 512 MB, otherwise the OS probably wouldn't see it. Second it must have the same pin configuration as the old Conner. If you compare the pin configuration of a modern ATA with this, you will see how different it is. They stopped making this old style configuration in the late 1980's, so a replacement drive would have to come from that era. Also, it is best to use another Conner model from that time period. If you find a suitable drive, the problem then becomes trying to adapt it to the 1520. To do this, you have to alter the BIOS code. Both Shawn and I have done this, using a CPS420 HDD, a CP30170, and a couple of other drives and we made this work. But we had to use an EPROM burner setup using replacement EPROM chips which replace the old BIOS chips in the computer. (These are located directly underneath the video card, which is the secondary card plugged
directly onto the MoBo. This is the same card where the extra sockets for ROM chips are located.) We downloaded the BIOS code and changed it in certain places, then burned the new BIOS onto new EPROM chips and put these in the BIOS chip slots of the computer. This allowed the computer to recognize the new HDD's. The entire procedure is laid out in our files section. So far we have been successful in using other old Conner drives. None of us have tried a different brand yet, so we don't know if that will work, although I suspect it will. But as you can see, this is a real bear. So I hope your HDD is okay.
> Anyway, let us see how the new battery does, and we'll go from there.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> >
> > I can try to get a picture.
> > So, the drive back panel is connected to the mobo with two double layered ribbon cables.
> >
> > When both cables are plugged in the computer won't boot
> > when neither cable is plugged in it won't boot
> > but when the cable closest to the screen is plugged in it boots
> >
> > As to the cmos battery, I'm getting a couple new ones soon.
> >
> > So, any ideas about the hdd and cables?
> > That is really confusing me ...
> >
> > Anson
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Okay,
> > >
> > > I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve
your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > Since
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Alright,
> > > > When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> > > > If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> > > > but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
> > > >
> > > > Anson
> > > >
> > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Anson:
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you hear the HDD startup, whir and rattle?
> > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok,
> > > > > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > > > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > > > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > > > > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > > > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > > > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > > > > batt.
> > > > > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > > > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > > > > > that it still worked.
> > > > > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > > > > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > > > > easier to replace the battery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > > > > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > > > > floppy.
> > > > > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > > > > known as
> > > > > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > > > > default
> > > > > > > device table.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > Anson
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 05:33:37 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
Shawn,
The backplane has two connectors to the motherboard. In the very early days, GRiDcase had a separate connector for the floppy drive which is whet went into the motherboard just to the right and underneath the battery insertion compartment. That was when they designed it for one or two floppies and no HDD. When they started putting in HDD, they redesigned the Mobo where the floppy connector slot stayed right where it was, and they put a separate connector slot for the HDD right behind it. They then went to a backplane configuration for the entire assembly to connect up the two units (floppy and HDD). Anson left the floppy disk connector inserted into its normal slot on the Mobo, leaving its data lines connected, but disconnected the connector behind it which connects the HDD. However, it will still receive power through the power connectors, because the power circuits are joined up. You only have to connect one connector to power both HDD and floppy. The data lines for each unit are in the same connector as their respective power lines, but of course have to be connected into their respective units for the computer to see them.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Anson,
> Phil asked the question, but I didn't see an answer: when you said that you disconnected the hard drive cable, what cable are you referring to? I must have missed something because Phil said he understood what you did, but I'm just slow.
> As you know, the hard and floppy drive interface is a solid connection from the back of the drive in to the motherboard.
> Thanks,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "ansoneinstein@..." <signupae@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 6:14:20 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
>
> It'll probably be a week or two before I get the batteries, but I'll let you know what happens when I do.
>
> Thanks for the help!
> Anson
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> >
> > Okay, I see what you did.
> >
> > The front cable goes to the floppy drive. The back cable goes to the HDD. By having either cable connected, you supply power to both units. This is what happens. Because the battery is dead (my belief), the data in the CMOS circuits cannot be read, thus the computer BIOS will not be able to see the HDD. But the BIOS has to detect that the HDD is physically there first before trying to access it. When you have both cables plugged in, the computer BIOS recognizes the HDD is attached, then tries to access it, but the CMOS circuits are down. Therefore it hangs. When both cables are unplugged, the computer cannot recognize either a floppy or the HDD being physically attached and therefore will hang again as it requires at least one of these devices in order to boot up. This BIOS is quite primitive. When you leave the floppy drive connected, but leave the HDD disconnected, the computer BIOS looks for the HDD, but eventually sees there isn't one
> physically connected, and it therefore bypasses trying to access it. This bypasses the code that would hang you up trying to access the CMOS circuit data. This leads the computer to go on with booting and tries to access the floppy drive, which should be successful.
> > I believe that is how it is happening. I still believe the new battery will solve your problems. But I must admit there is a chance the HDD is bad. These old Conner were notorious for going out like that. I don't think that is the case, however because you mentioned that you had been able to boot it up before and make it work. Obviously the HDD worked then, right? It would be incredibly bad luck if the HDD suddenly failed on you then. If the HDD is bad, that is going to be a problem, because replacing it is exetremely difficult due to rarity of finding a replacement. Putting in a new HDD can be done, but it would have to be done in one of two ways. First, find a suitable replacement. These old GRiDcases were hardcoded into the BIOS to accept only three possible old style Conner drives. Finding these old drives is a real chore, Believe me, we've been looking around for a long time and they just aren't around anymore after 25 years. The company
> got bought out by SeaGate in the late 1980's or so. You can fit a 20 Mb, 40Mb, or a 100 Mb (and only these particular models: CP3020, CP3040, CP3044, or CP30104). As I said, it is virtually impossible to find these drives any more. The second option is to fit another hard drive into the computer.
> > If you do this, it is a rather involved procedure. First, the drive should be less than 512 MB, otherwise the OS probably wouldn't see it. Second it must have the same pin configuration as the old Conner. If you compare the pin configuration of a modern ATA with this, you will see how different it is. They stopped making this old style configuration in the late 1980's, so a replacement drive would have to come from that era. Also, it is best to use another Conner model from that time period. If you find a suitable drive, the problem then becomes trying to adapt it to the 1520. To do this, you have to alter the BIOS code. Both Shawn and I have done this, using a CPS420 HDD, a CP30170, and a couple of other drives and we made this work. But we had to use an EPROM burner setup using replacement EPROM chips which replace the old BIOS chips in the computer. (These are located directly underneath the video card, which is the secondary card plugged
> directly onto the MoBo. This is the same card where the extra sockets for ROM chips are located.) We downloaded the BIOS code and changed it in certain places, then burned the new BIOS onto new EPROM chips and put these in the BIOS chip slots of the computer. This allowed the computer to recognize the new HDD's. The entire procedure is laid out in our files section. So far we have been successful in using other old Conner drives. None of us have tried a different brand yet, so we don't know if that will work, although I suspect it will. But as you can see, this is a real bear. So I hope your HDD is okay.
> > Anyway, let us see how the new battery does, and we'll go from there.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I can try to get a picture.
> > > So, the drive back panel is connected to the mobo with two double layered ribbon cables.
> > >
> > > When both cables are plugged in the computer won't boot
> > > when neither cable is plugged in it won't boot
> > > but when the cable closest to the screen is plugged in it boots
> > >
> > > As to the cmos battery, I'm getting a couple new ones soon.
> > >
> > > So, any ideas about the hdd and cables?
> > > That is really confusing me ...
> > >
> > > Anson
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Okay,
> > > >
> > > > I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve
> your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > Since
> > > >
> > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Alright,
> > > > > When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> > > > > If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> > > > > but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anson
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you hear the HDD startup, whir and rattle?
> > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ok,
> > > > > > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > > > > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > > > > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > > > > > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > > > > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > > > > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > > > > > batt.
> > > > > > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > > > > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > > > > > > that it still worked.
> > > > > > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > > > > > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > > > > > easier to replace the battery.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > > > > > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > > > > > floppy.
> > > > > > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > > > > > known as
> > > > > > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > > > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > > > > > default
> > > > > > > > device table.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > > > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > Anson
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 22:50:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Phil,
Oh, OK. I don't think I've seen that version. All of mine have the HDD and floppy on the same interface board.
Thanks,
-Shawn
________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2009 1:33:37 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
Shawn,
The backplane has two connectors to the motherboard. In the very early days, GRiDcase had a separate connector for the floppy drive which is whet went into the motherboard just to the right and underneath the battery insertion compartment. That was when they designed it for one or two floppies and no HDD. When they started putting in HDD, they redesigned the Mobo where the floppy connector slot stayed right where it was, and they put a separate connector slot for the HDD right behind it. They then went to a backplane configuration for the entire assembly to connect up the two units (floppy and HDD). Anson left the floppy disk connector inserted into its normal slot on the Mobo, leaving its data lines connected, but disconnected the connector behind it which connects the HDD. However, it will still receive power through the power connectors, because the power circuits are joined up. You only have to connect one connector to power both HDD and floppy. The
data lines for each unit are in the same connector as their respective power lines, but of course have to be connected into their respective units for the computer to see them.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Anson,
> Phil asked the question, but I didn't see an answer: when you said that you disconnected the hard drive cable, what cable are you referring to? I must have missed something because Phil said he understood what you did, but I'm just slow.
> As you know, the hard and floppy drive interface is a solid connection from the back of the drive in to the motherboard.
> Thanks,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "ansoneinstein@..." <signupae@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 6:14:20 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
>
> It'll probably be a week or two before I get the batteries, but I'll let you know what happens when I do.
>
> Thanks for the help!
> Anson
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> >
> > Okay, I see what you did.
> >
> > The front cable goes to the floppy drive. The back cable goes to the HDD. By having either cable connected, you supply power to both units. This is what happens. Because the battery is dead (my belief), the data in the CMOS circuits cannot be read, thus the computer BIOS will not be able to see the HDD. But the BIOS has to detect that the HDD is physically there first before trying to access it. When you have both cables plugged in, the computer BIOS recognizes the HDD is attached, then tries to access it, but the CMOS circuits are down. Therefore it hangs. When both cables are unplugged, the computer cannot recognize either a floppy or the HDD being physically attached and therefore will hang again as it requires at least one of these devices in order to boot up. This BIOS is quite primitive. When you leave the floppy drive connected, but leave the HDD disconnected, the computer BIOS looks for the HDD, but eventually sees there isn't one
> physically connected, and it therefore bypasses trying to access it. This bypasses the code that would hang you up trying to access the CMOS circuit data. This leads the computer to go on with booting and tries to access the floppy drive, which should be successful.
> > I believe that is how it is happening. I still believe the new battery will solve your problems. But I must admit there is a chance the HDD is bad. These old Conner were notorious for going out like that. I don't think that is the case, however because you mentioned that you had been able to boot it up before and make it work. Obviously the HDD worked then, right? It would be incredibly bad luck if the HDD suddenly failed on you then. If the HDD is bad, that is going to be a problem, because replacing it is exetremely difficult due to rarity of finding a replacement. Putting in a new HDD can be done, but it would have to be done in one of two ways. First, find a suitable replacement. These old GRiDcases were hardcoded into the BIOS to accept only three possible old style Conner drives. Finding these old drives is a real chore, Believe me, we've been looking around for a long time and they just aren't around anymore after 25 years. The company
> got bought out by SeaGate in the late 1980's or so. You can fit a 20 Mb, 40Mb, or a 100 Mb (and only these particular models: CP3020, CP3040, CP3044, or CP30104). As I said, it is virtually impossible to find these drives any more. The second option is to fit another hard drive into the computer.
> > If you do this, it is a rather involved procedure. First, the drive should be less than 512 MB, otherwise the OS probably wouldn't see it. Second it must have the same pin configuration as the old Conner. If you compare the pin configuration of a modern ATA with this, you will see how different it is. They stopped making this old style configuration in the late 1980's, so a replacement drive would have to come from that era. Also, it is best to use another Conner model from that time period. If you find a suitable drive, the problem then becomes trying to adapt it to the 1520. To do this, you have to alter the BIOS code. Both Shawn and I have done this, using a CPS420 HDD, a CP30170, and a couple of other drives and we made this work. But we had to use an EPROM burner setup using replacement EPROM chips which replace the old BIOS chips in the computer. (These are located directly underneath the video card, which is the secondary card plugged
> directly onto the MoBo. This is the same card where the extra sockets for ROM chips are located.) We downloaded the BIOS code and changed it in certain places, then burned the new BIOS onto new EPROM chips and put these in the BIOS chip slots of the computer. This allowed the computer to recognize the new HDD's. The entire procedure is laid out in our files section. So far we have been successful in using other old Conner drives. None of us have tried a different brand yet, so we don't know if that will work, although I suspect it will. But as you can see, this is a real bear. So I hope your HDD is okay.
> > Anyway, let us see how the new battery does, and we'll go from there.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I can try to get a picture.
> > > So, the drive back panel is connected to the mobo with two double layered ribbon cables.
> > >
> > > When both cables are plugged in the computer won't boot
> > > when neither cable is plugged in it won't boot
> > > but when the cable closest to the screen is plugged in it boots
> > >
> > > As to the cmos battery, I'm getting a couple new ones soon.
> > >
> > > So, any ideas about the hdd and cables?
> > > That is really confusing me ...
> > >
> > > Anson
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Okay,
> > > >
> > > > I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve
> your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > Since
> > > >
> > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Alright,
> > > > > When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> > > > > If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> > > > > but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anson
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you hear the HDD startup, whir and rattle?
> > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ok,
> > > > > > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > > > > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > > > > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > > > > > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > > > > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > > > > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > > > > > batt.
> > > > > > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > > > > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > > > > > > that it still worked.
> > > > > > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > > > > > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > > > > > easier to replace the battery.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > > > > > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > > > > > floppy.
> > > > > > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > > > > > known as
> > > > > > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > > > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > > > > > default
> > > > > > > > device table.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > > > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > Anson
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 07:56:19 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
Shawn,
Yes that interface board is the backplane which connects to the floppy drive and HDD. But it should have two separate double ribbon cables with two black plastic connectors coming off of that backplane which connect to two input slots on the MoBo. I don't recall a model where the backplane had only one cable coming off of it, but I supposed an earlier version might have it. The two cable backplane is the stable version they stayed with in the end.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Phil,
> Oh, OK. I don't think I've seen that version. All of mine have the HDD and floppy on the same interface board.
> Thanks,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2009 1:33:37 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
>
> Shawn,
>
> The backplane has two connectors to the motherboard. In the very early days, GRiDcase had a separate connector for the floppy drive which is whet went into the motherboard just to the right and underneath the battery insertion compartment. That was when they designed it for one or two floppies and no HDD. When they started putting in HDD, they redesigned the Mobo where the floppy connector slot stayed right where it was, and they put a separate connector slot for the HDD right behind it. They then went to a backplane configuration for the entire assembly to connect up the two units (floppy and HDD). Anson left the floppy disk connector inserted into its normal slot on the Mobo, leaving its data lines connected, but disconnected the connector behind it which connects the HDD. However, it will still receive power through the power connectors, because the power circuits are joined up. You only have to connect one connector to power both HDD and floppy. The
> data lines for each unit are in the same connector as their respective power lines, but of course have to be connected into their respective units for the computer to see them.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@> wrote:
> >
> > Anson,
> > Phil asked the question, but I didn't see an answer: when you said that you disconnected the hard drive cable, what cable are you referring to? I must have missed something because Phil said he understood what you did, but I'm just slow.
> > As you know, the hard and floppy drive interface is a solid connection from the back of the drive in to the motherboard.
> > Thanks,
> > -Shawn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@>
> > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 6:14:20 PM
> > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
> >
> > It'll probably be a week or two before I get the batteries, but I'll let you know what happens when I do.
> >
> > Thanks for the help!
> > Anson
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Okay, I see what you did.
> > >
> > > The front cable goes to the floppy drive. The back cable goes to the HDD. By having either cable connected, you supply power to both units. This is what happens. Because the battery is dead (my belief), the data in the CMOS circuits cannot be read, thus the computer BIOS will not be able to see the HDD. But the BIOS has to detect that the HDD is physically there first before trying to access it. When you have both cables plugged in, the computer BIOS recognizes the HDD is attached, then tries to access it, but the CMOS circuits are down. Therefore it hangs. When both cables are unplugged, the computer cannot recognize either a floppy or the HDD being physically attached and therefore will hang again as it requires at least one of these devices in order to boot up. This BIOS is quite primitive. When you leave the floppy drive connected, but leave the HDD disconnected, the computer BIOS looks for the HDD, but eventually sees there isn't one
> > physically connected, and it therefore bypasses trying to access it. This bypasses the code that would hang you up trying to access the CMOS circuit data. This leads the computer to go on with booting and tries to access the floppy drive, which should be successful.
> > > I believe that is how it is happening. I still believe the new battery will solve your problems. But I must admit there is a chance the HDD is bad. These old Conner were notorious for going out like that. I don't think that is the case, however because you mentioned that you had been able to boot it up before and make it work. Obviously the HDD worked then, right? It would be incredibly bad luck if the HDD suddenly failed on you then. If the HDD is bad, that is going to be a problem, because replacing it is exetremely difficult due to rarity of finding a replacement. Putting in a new HDD can be done, but it would have to be done in one of two ways. First, find a suitable replacement. These old GRiDcases were hardcoded into the BIOS to accept only three possible old style Conner drives. Finding these old drives is a real chore, Believe me, we've been looking around for a long time and they just aren't around anymore after 25 years. The company
> > got bought out by SeaGate in the late 1980's or so. You can fit a 20 Mb, 40Mb, or a 100 Mb (and only these particular models: CP3020, CP3040, CP3044, or CP30104). As I said, it is virtually impossible to find these drives any more. The second option is to fit another hard drive into the computer.
> > > If you do this, it is a rather involved procedure. First, the drive should be less than 512 MB, otherwise the OS probably wouldn't see it. Second it must have the same pin configuration as the old Conner. If you compare the pin configuration of a modern ATA with this, you will see how different it is. They stopped making this old style configuration in the late 1980's, so a replacement drive would have to come from that era. Also, it is best to use another Conner model from that time period. If you find a suitable drive, the problem then becomes trying to adapt it to the 1520. To do this, you have to alter the BIOS code. Both Shawn and I have done this, using a CPS420 HDD, a CP30170, and a couple of other drives and we made this work. But we had to use an EPROM burner setup using replacement EPROM chips which replace the old BIOS chips in the computer. (These are located directly underneath the video card, which is the secondary card plugged
> > directly onto the MoBo. This is the same card where the extra sockets for ROM chips are located.) We downloaded the BIOS code and changed it in certain places, then burned the new BIOS onto new EPROM chips and put these in the BIOS chip slots of the computer. This allowed the computer to recognize the new HDD's. The entire procedure is laid out in our files section. So far we have been successful in using other old Conner drives. None of us have tried a different brand yet, so we don't know if that will work, although I suspect it will. But as you can see, this is a real bear. So I hope your HDD is okay.
> > > Anyway, let us see how the new battery does, and we'll go from there.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I can try to get a picture.
> > > > So, the drive back panel is connected to the mobo with two double layered ribbon cables.
> > > >
> > > > When both cables are plugged in the computer won't boot
> > > > when neither cable is plugged in it won't boot
> > > > but when the cable closest to the screen is plugged in it boots
> > > >
> > > > As to the cmos battery, I'm getting a couple new ones soon.
> > > >
> > > > So, any ideas about the hdd and cables?
> > > > That is really confusing me ...
> > > >
> > > > Anson
> > > >
> > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Okay,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve
> > your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.
> > > > >
> > > > > Phil
> > > > >
> > > > > Since
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alright,
> > > > > > When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> > > > > > If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> > > > > > but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anson
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you hear the HDD startup, whir and rattle?
> > > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ok,
> > > > > > > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > > > > > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > > > > > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > > > > > > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > > > > > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > > > > > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > > > > > > batt.
> > > > > > > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > > > > > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > > > > > > > that it still worked.
> > > > > > > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > > > > > > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > > > > > > easier to replace the battery.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > > > > > > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > > > > > > floppy.
> > > > > > > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > > > > > > known as
> > > > > > > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > > > > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > > > > > > default
> > > > > > > > > device table.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > > > > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > > > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > > > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > > > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > > > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > > > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > > > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > > Anson
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 01:08:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
You know what? I'm confused. Old age is setting in. I remember now. The problem is I'm trying to do this from memory without having the Grid in front of me.
-Shawn
________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2009 3:56:19 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
Shawn,
Yes that interface board is the backplane which connects to the floppy drive and HDD. But it should have two separate double ribbon cables with two black plastic connectors coming off of that backplane which connect to two input slots on the MoBo. I don't recall a model where the backplane had only one cable coming off of it, but I supposed an earlier version might have it. The two cable backplane is the stable version they stayed with in the end.
Phil
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 14:16:03 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
No problem, Shawn, *grin*
Happens to the best of us. :D
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> You know what? I'm confused. Old age is setting in. I remember now. The problem is I'm trying to do this from memory without having the Grid in front of me.
> -Shawn
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2009 3:56:19 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
>
> Shawn,
>
> Yes that interface board is the backplane which connects to the floppy drive and HDD. But it should have two separate double ribbon cables with two black plastic connectors coming off of that backplane which connect to two input slots on the MoBo. I don't recall a model where the backplane had only one cable coming off of it, but I supposed an earlier version might have it. The two cable backplane is the stable version they stayed with in the end.
>
> Phil
>
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:36:36 -0000
From: "Steven"
Subject: Has anyone heard of Orthotote?
I am considering buying this orthotote product. Has anyone out there bought it? Below is the info about this product;I have edited it a bit so as not to make this too long.What do you think? This is not an advert. I am constantly using a shoulder held bag and it has caused me pain. I saw this ad but I do not care to be ripped off.
The Orthotote is a patented shoulder pad that can easily be attached to any shoulder strap up to 4 inches wide.
It works using three very sound principles.
The pad has a wedge shape that reverses the natural sliding pond slope of the shoulder. This wedge also shifts the center of gravity towards the middle of the body so that the laptop now wants to shift towards the body instead of away from it.
It distibutes the weight over a far larger area which eliminates that strap cutting into your shoulder area so you have no pain.
The bottom layer is a cushiony space age non marking plastic that acts like a shock absorber. At the same time this material grips the shoulder area, further reducing the possibility of slippage. The Orthotote is so revolutionary, it has earned a utility patent which means even its concept is patented.
So what do you think?
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:21:47 -0400
From: "Len.C"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Has anyone heard of Orthotote?
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
At $30 US its kinda of pricey, it also doesn't look any wider than what
my laptop bag has on it now from IBM.
Its most likely wider than what this thing is and longer, is all
leather, suede on the bottom so it doesn't slide, then a little padding
then the top.
Steven wrote:
>
>
> I am considering buying this orthotote product. Has anyone out there
> bought it? Below is the info about this product;I have edited it a bit
> so as not to make this too long.What do you think? This is not an
> advert. I am constantly using a shoulder held bag and it has caused me
> pain. I saw this ad but I do not care to be ripped off.
>
> The Orthotote is a patented shoulder pad that can easily be attached
> to any shoulder strap up to 4 inches wide.
>
> It works using three very sound principles.
>
> The pad has a wedge shape that reverses the natural sliding pond slope
> of the shoulder. This wedge also shifts the center of gravity towards
> the middle of the body so that the laptop now wants to shift towards
> the body instead of away from it.
>
> It distibutes the weight over a far larger area which eliminates that
> strap cutting into your shoulder area so you have no pain.
>
> The bottom layer is a cushiony space age non marking plastic that acts
> like a shock absorber. At the same time this material grips the
> shoulder area, further reducing the possibility of slippage. The
> Orthotote is so revolutionary, it has earned a utility patent which
> means even its concept is patented.
> So what do you think?
>
>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:47:39 -0000
From: "Andrea"
Subject: TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS
Hallo,
I found on Ebay an auction for 256k sipp memory modules, probably the same memory modules used in the Gridcase 1520/1530, 97 still available!!
TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220416050612
item nr. 220416050612 seller: acpsurplus.
Hi Shawn, thank you,
with your help now I have on my 1530 a new hard disk (CFS420A)
I'm still working on my grid 1550sx, I changed all the capacitors on the power module inside the computer since they are exausted, now the screen appears stable and clear.
however, are not able to change the bios, the method used for the checksum does not seem to work. The floppy disk drive does not work, I'm looking for a replacement, but I think is an OEM type.
Andrea
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:17:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS
text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Andrea,
Very good find! I wish the seller had the 1 MB version, but 256k will do. I also see that the seller has 27C128 EPROMs for sale. If anyone wants to get in to Grid BIOS hacking, you'll need some EPROMs.
Thanks again, Andrea.
-Shawn
________________________________
From: Andrea <zentaro.cane@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, October 13, 2009 6:47:39 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS
Hallo,
I found on Ebay an auction for 256k sipp memory modules, probably the same memory modules used in the Gridcase 1520/1530, 97 still available!!
TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220416050612
item nr. 220416050612 seller: acpsurplus.
Hi Shawn, thank you,
with your help now I have on my 1530 a new hard disk (CFS420A)
I'm still working on my grid 1550sx, I changed all the capacitors on the power module inside the computer since they are exausted, now the screen appears stable and clear.
however, are not able to change the bios, the method used for the checksum does not seem to work. The floppy disk drive does not work, I'm looking for a replacement, but I think is an OEM type.
Andrea
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:23:11 -0700
From: Jim Stephens
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS
Shawnerz wrote:
>
>
> Andrea,
> Very good find! I wish the seller had the 1 MB version, but 256k will
> do. I also see that the seller has 27C128 EPROMs for sale. If anyone
> wants to get in to Grid BIOS hacking, you'll need some EPROMs.
> Thanks again, Andrea.
> -Shawn
The vendor is Dave Freeman at Advanced Computer Products. They bought a
huge amount of the Grid liquidation hardware back in the day when Grid
fell in. I still have a couple of units they sold at the time (in the
early 80's maybe?). They bought a lot of surplus when places went
bankrupt. Also bought a lot of Kaypro as well.
Call him at 714-558-8813 or 714-558-8822 and as for Dave Freeman and see
if he can get someone to dig for older Grid stuff in the pile. He may
no longer know it is a grid component, as he has moved the pile he has a
couple of times.
Here is another web site he put up related to vintage computing.
http://www.thepcmuseum.net/
Jim
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:13:57 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS
Thanks, Shawnerz,
I did try Dave for a different reason, which was to see if I could find a working external floppy drive. Those are the GRiD model 3401 (3.5" diskette drive), 3402 (5.25" floppy diskette drive, 360Kb), or 3404 (5.25" floppy diskette drive, 1.2 Mb), but he didn't have any of them. The other thing I wanted to find is if there was a part number for those 1Mb RAM sticks. I'd appreciate it if any of you guys out there have this part information, and where I might be able to find one of these floppy drives. I can use any of them. Thanks.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Jim Stephens <jws@...> wrote:
>
> Shawnerz wrote:
> >
> >
> > Andrea,
> > Very good find! I wish the seller had the 1 MB version, but 256k will
> > do. I also see that the seller has 27C128 EPROMs for sale. If anyone
> > wants to get in to Grid BIOS hacking, you'll need some EPROMs.
> > Thanks again, Andrea.
> > -Shawn
> The vendor is Dave Freeman at Advanced Computer Products. They bought a
> huge amount of the Grid liquidation hardware back in the day when Grid
> fell in. I still have a couple of units they sold at the time (in the
> early 80's maybe?). They bought a lot of surplus when places went
> bankrupt. Also bought a lot of Kaypro as well.
>
> Call him at 714-558-8813 or 714-558-8822 and as for Dave Freeman and see
> if he can get someone to dig for older Grid stuff in the pile. He may
> no longer know it is a grid component, as he has moved the pile he has a
> couple of times.
>
> Here is another web site he put up related to vintage computing.
>
> http://www.thepcmuseum.net/
>
> Jim
>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:37:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re:
While I have both of the external drives you mention I won't part with them. But what I do have is a massive
5 1/4 Grid 2202 meant I imagine for one of the earlier models. It must be coveted, perhaps it's for the Grid Compass. It also has a cable for the different interface. If you have contact with any of the earlier Grid collectors who might have a GRid external 15xx fdd or two, perhaps you could arrange a 3rd party trade.
In return I would want a working HDD for the Grid 1520, preferably a larger HD and altered BIOS chips.
I think that would be a good trade for all concerned. The 2202, like the C-64 and other computers, has 2 ports meant for chaining drives and well worth 2 fdds for you in exchange because of it's rarity.
As for the SIPPs, you might try a post on the Vintage Computer Forum. After long unfruitful searches on E-Pay for them I managed to get 8 (for my 2 1520s) there from a guy in Belgium. I think the main criteria is Standard or Low Profile SIPPS. I don't think there were many higher than Standard SIPPS produced. The ones I got worked fine. I ran Win3.1 with extended memory with them. You could measure the clearance between the socket and the cover to ensure they would fit in the case.
Lawrence
__________________________________________________________________
Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 09:23:22 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re:
Thanks, Lawrence,
I appreciate the offer. Do you know if the 2202 will work with the 1500 series? I don't have any contact with any other GRiD collectors, and a google search came up empty. If the 2202 will work, then I think I may be able to accommodate you. I am set up to be able to burn EPROMS for a 1520. But I have to find an appropriate hard drive. I've been able to succesfully adapt the CGS420 like Shawn did, as well as three other models, a 100 Mb, a 120Mb and a 170Mb. I should be able to copy and burn the chips as I have those computers with me. I just have to find the HDD.
This all came about as I recently came into possession of a 1535 EXP in mint condition. I only had to replace the Tadiran battery and it booted up perfectly. This model has the HDD but no floppy, so right now I don't have a way to interact with the computer in terms of file transfer. I could use PCMASTER/PCSLAVE, I suppose, as my main desktop has a serial port on it I can use, and remarkably I have installed on it a legacy 5.25" floppy as my Drive B:, just in case, so the 2202 would work. Of course I could also do it with one of my other GRiDs, which have floppy disks, but this options is a pain. I'd rather have a floppy I can attach to this unit.
One other option I have is that I bought an old Dell 1.44 Mb floppy drive for $3.00, that is parallel port connected. I'm going to try that and see if the computer will see it. If so, that would solve my problems.
Another option is that I do have the expansion tray for the 1535. I can just connect it and then find a legacy hardware card to insert in it that would hook up to a floppy drive in some way..
But if these options don't work, I'll probably be looking for an appropriate HDD for you, Lawrence. If I happen to run across one in any case, I'll see if I can snag it for you.
I snagged some 1 Mb low profile SIPP's off E-pay, four of them. I haggled the price down a lot, but I still paid too much.....meh. However, I have some other irons in the fire that may pan out in terms of getting more of those memory sticks.
I remember that there was some kit by Pyramid(?), or somebody, where you could actually insert 16 Mb of RAM into the computer. Do you happen to recall the details on that adaptation? I have toyed with several ideas on solving this problem with the RAM. I have not been able to find any SIPP to SIMM adapters that would fit. The distance between the pin banks on the MoBo is 0.2 inches. Every adapter I ever found was at least 0.3 inches thick, and also to wide as well, interfering with both the video card and the indicator light array.
After looking and discarding several ideas, it seems the only way to solve the problem is to actually design and produce some type of interface. I envisioned some pin inserts that would be place permanently into the SIPP slots, and all 240 wires (probably on a ribbon) would have to connect to a small board that would accept up to 4x4Mb SIMM's, which would be a lot easier to find. But this is far beyond my capabilities. I would have to get some manufacturer to do it, and would probably be prohibitively expensive. Ah,well. It's nice to dream.
One other thing. I recently procured several new Dallas RTC 1287A chips. These are exact replacements for the ones on the GRiD computers. They came from a batch intended to be used in a bunch of old Dells in 1989, but never were used. Since they were never connected, the batteries appear to be okay. I replaced one in a 1520 I have, but the BIOS saw it as a different chip and kept asking for the BIOS password, which of course is the problem that we always ran into before, when trying to replace the 1520's RTC chip, along with the fact that you cannot use the 12887A in 16 bit machines. This is not a problem with the 1530's,a s the BIOS there allows one to replace the 1287 without a problem
I finally talked to someone experienced in assembly language from that era who told me that he thought the issue was a security feature. Each Dallas 1287 and 1287A has its own identifier number, and the BIOS is programmed to recognize the original chip that came with that board. This semes to make some sense as GRiD's were used by the Military and NASA. He seemed to think that if you could find the code in the BIOS, it could be altered to accept the new 1287A chip, which also makes sense since the 1530 BIOS can do it. I am presently looking into doing that. I am using a disassembler to break down the BIOS code into assembly instructions. Then I will see if I can find someone who is familiar enough with this to figure out if this is truly the case.
This is the state of my research so far, when I have time. Again, thanks for the offer. I'll get back to you on that if these other options don't work.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...> wrote:
>
> While I have both of the external drives you mention I won't part with them. But what I do have is a massive
> 5 1/4 Grid 2202 meant I imagine for one of the earlier models. It must be coveted, perhaps it's for the Grid Compass. It also has a cable for the different interface. If you have contact with any of the earlier Grid collectors who might have a GRid external 15xx fdd or two, perhaps you could arrange a 3rd party trade.
>
> In return I would want a working HDD for the Grid 1520, preferably a larger HD and altered BIOS chips.
> I think that would be a good trade for all concerned. The 2202, like the C-64 and other computers, has 2 ports meant for chaining drives and well worth 2 fdds for you in exchange because of it's rarity.
>
> As for the SIPPs, you might try a post on the Vintage Computer Forum. After long unfruitful searches on E-Pay for them I managed to get 8 (for my 2 1520s) there from a guy in Belgium. I think the main criteria is Standard or Low Profile SIPPS. I don't think there were many higher than Standard SIPPS produced. The ones I got worked fine. I ran Win3.1 with extended memory with them. You could measure the clearance between the socket and the cover to ensure they would fit in the case.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:57:07 -0800
From: KenS
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS
jeriddian wrote:
> Those are the GRiD model 3401 (3.5" diskette drive),
I have the following which might be of interest and would like to dispose of it,
preferably in a single shipment:
Grid 3401 3.5" external floppy drive with cable (pin 1 blocked)
(2) Grid 32170 3.5" external drives. These have the same 25 pin connector but
pin 1 is used. Not interchangeable with the 3401.
Grid 1535 exp. The expansion tray went away long ago when it developed internal
shorts which I couldn't locate but it pulled down the power supply. The hard
drive is now an IBM DALA-3540 which is not usable but the BIOS would hang on
either the defective original Conner CP3044 or a missing HDD. The IBM drive has
the small 3-pin power connector to fit into the 1535 case. This 1535 exp would
boot from the external 3401 floppy until I foolishly connected a 32170 which
seems to have fried the external floppy interface within the 1535. It is now a
candidate for a BIOS reprogram to use some appropriate HDD as has been discussed
on this forum or for spare parts. For example the power supply is good. I find
the blue on gray LCD screen rather hard to see.
Any interest out there? The collection weighs 22 lbs. Located near Santa
Maria, CA.
Ken S.
aka: engrken04
aka: engrken@...
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 02:16:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
text/plain; charset=utf-8
 No the 2202 has a larger connector. Perhaps 19 pins or so. That's why I mentioned a 3rd party trade.
I have 8 1meg Sipps in my 1520s. ISTR something about 16megs in a 15xx and it could have been Pyramid. I had some old usenet posts of Grid references, but finding them would be a problem.
 I wasn't aware of this problem with the Dallas chip. I was always under the impression that simply grounding one of the pins as outlined in the Dallas specs, wiped out anything in the BIOS memory and then they worked.
Lawrence
________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...m>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, November 14, 2009 3:23:22 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
Â
Thanks, Lawrence,
I appreciate the offer. Do you know if the 2202 will work with the 1500 series? I don't have any contact with any other GRiD collectors, and a google search came up empty. If the 2202 will work, then I think I may be able to accommodate you. I am set up to be able to burn EPROMS for a 1520. But I have to find an appropriate hard drive. I've been able to succesfully adapt the CGS420 like Shawn did, as well as three other models, a 100 Mb, a 120Mb and a 170Mb. I should be able to copy and burn the chips as I have those computers with me. I just have to find the HDD.
This all came about as I recently came into possession of a 1535 EXP in mint condition. I only had to replace the Tadiran battery and it booted up perfectly. This model has the HDD but no floppy, so right now I don't have a way to interact with the computer in terms of file transfer. I could use PCMASTER/PCSLAVE, I suppose, as my main desktop has a serial port on it I can use, and remarkably I have installed on it a legacy 5.25" floppy as my Drive B:, just in case, so the 2202 would work. Of course I could also do it with one of my other GRiDs, which have floppy disks, but this options is a pain. I'd rather have a floppy I can attach to this unit.
One other option I have is that I bought an old Dell 1.44 Mb floppy drive for $3.00, that is parallel port connected. I'm going to try that and see if the computer will see it. If so, that would solve my problems.
Another option is that I do have the expansion tray for the 1535. I can just connect it and then find a legacy hardware card to insert in it that would hook up to a floppy drive in some way..
But if these options don't work, I'll probably be looking for an appropriate HDD for you, Lawrence. If I happen to run across one in any case, I'll see if I can snag it for you.
I snagged some 1 Mb low profile SIPP's off E-pay, four of them. I haggled the price down a lot, but I still paid too much.....meh. However, I have some other irons in the fire that may pan out in terms of getting more of those memory sticks.
I remember that there was some kit by Pyramid(?), or somebody, where you could actually insert 16 Mb of RAM into the computer. Do you happen to recall the details on that adaptation? I have toyed with several ideas on solving this problem with the RAM. I have not been able to find any SIPP to SIMM adapters that would fit. The distance between the pin banks on the MoBo is 0.2 inches. Every adapter I ever found was at least 0.3 inches thick, and also to wide as well, interfering with both the video card and the indicator light array.
After looking and discarding several ideas, it seems the only way to solve the problem is to actually design and produce some type of interface. I envisioned some pin inserts that would be place permanently into the SIPP slots, and all 240 wires (probably on a ribbon) would have to connect to a small board that would accept up to 4x4Mb SIMM's, which would be a lot easier to find. But this is far beyond my capabilities. I would have to get some manufacturer to do it, and would probably be prohibitively expensive. Ah,well. It's nice to dream.
One other thing. I recently procured several new Dallas RTC 1287A chips. These are exact replacements for the ones on the GRiD computers. They came from a batch intended to be used in a bunch of old Dells in 1989, but never were used. Since they were never connected, the batteries appear to be okay. I replaced one in a 1520 I have, but the BIOS saw it as a different chip and kept asking for the BIOS password, which of course is the problem that we always ran into before, when trying to replace the 1520's RTC chip, along with the fact that you cannot use the 12887A in 16 bit machines. This is not a problem with the 1530's,a s the BIOS there allows one to replace the 1287 without a problem
I finally talked to someone experienced in assembly language from that era who told me that he thought the issue was a security feature. Each Dallas 1287 and 1287A has its own identifier number, and the BIOS is programmed to recognize the original chip that came with that board. This semes to make some sense as GRiD's were used by the Military and NASA. He seemed to think that if you could find the code in the BIOS, it could be altered to accept the new 1287A chip, which also makes sense since the 1530 BIOS can do it. I am presently looking into doing that. I am using a disassembler to break down the BIOS code into assembly instructions. Then I will see if I can find someone who is familiar enough with this to figure out if this is truly the case.
This is the state of my research so far, when I have time. Again, thanks for the offer. I'll get back to you on that if these other options don't work.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@ ...> wrote:
>
> While I have both of the external drives you mention I won't part with them. But what I do have is a massive
> 5 1/4 Grid 2202 meant I imagine for one of the earlier models. It must be coveted, perhaps it's for the Grid Compass. It also has a cable for the different interface. If you have contact with any of the earlier Grid collectors who might have a GRid external 15xx fdd or two, perhaps you could arrange a 3rd party trade.
>
> Â In return I would want a working HDD for the Grid 1520, preferably a larger HD and altered BIOS chips.
>  I think that would be a good trade for all concerned. The 2202, like the C-64 and other computers, has 2 ports meant for chaining drives and well worth 2 fdds for you in exchange because of it's rarity.
>
> Â As for the SIPPs, you might try a post on the Vintage Computer Forum. After long unfruitful searches on E-Pay for them I managed to get 8 (for my 2 1520s) there from a guy in Belgium. I think the main criteria is Standard or Low Profile SIPPS. I don't think there were many higher than Standard SIPPS produced. The ones I got worked fine. I ran Win3.1 with extended memory with them. You could measure the clearance between the socket and the cover to ensure they would fit in the case.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads. yahoo.com/ ca/internetexplo rer/
>
__________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:38:36 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re:
Thanks, Lawrence,
Ken S. has provided me the alternative for the floppy drive. I have done some research into the Dallas RTC. The BIOS of the 1530 is rewritten for 32 bit operation, which of course is why the 12887 can be used. The 12887 has its internal registers rerouted internally to allow for 32 bit operation. If it is used in a 16 bit machine like the 1520, the BIOS tries to access the wrong registers because they are addressed differently. This is why we always had to go back to configuring the internal battery connection to an external battery as we have done, since the 1287 was no longer made. We had always thought that if we could ever find 1287's, it would simply be a matter of replacing them.
Well, I got my chance when I found these old unused 1287's. I put one in an old 1520 I had procured. To my surprise, I got the recurring question asking for the BIOS password, which is exactly what happens when someone tries to put a 12887 onto a 1520 board. In case you don't know, when the original Dallas RTC chip on a 1520 is replaced with a 12887, the BIOS recognizes that it is a different chip. Right after the POST, it executes some code in the BIOS asking for a BIOS password. I think what happens was that GRiD took the original Phoenix BIOS code and altered it for their own purposes, but did not completely rewrite it. I think that since the RTC was never intended to be replaced, they never took out the code that asked for the password, but they did take out the code for providing an answer, possibly because they needed the room for more specific code for the 1520, or maybe for security purposes. The end result is that if that code is executed, it will ask for the password right after boot up. It doesn't matter what answer is given. Once the enter button is hit, the code just forces the computer into a warm boot, and it locks the computer into this interminable loop, never allowing it to completely boot up. We always thought this was because the 12887 was too different, but now that I have tried an exact replacement, we know now that is not enough to solve the problem.
As I noted, I was able to contact a company that specialized in rewriting BIOS assembly code for older computers, but the GRiD was too old even for them. But they did tell me that the Dallas RTC chips were used for security purposes in identification of computers and their speculation was that this was one of the purposes, if not the purpose, for its use in a GRiD Laptop which was often used for NASA and military applications like Freddy FADAC fire control units for army artillery in Desert Storm. If this was the case, then the BIOS of each 1520 from those earlier GRiD days would be attuned to only one specific 1287 chip, sort of like DNA, I guess. Replacing it would make the BIOS balk at using the new one. Since this was not a problem in the 1287 chips in the later 1530's that used the RTC, it was either a hardwiring issue on the MoBo or it was the BIOS that was different. The programmer to whom I spoke felt it was more likely the BIOS since it was simply a matter of recognizing the chip, which probably has some sort of ID number embedded in it. The BIOS code in the 1530's simply ignores it, since at the point the new 32 bit computers were coming out in 1985 or so, the security intent of using those chips apparently had become outmoded or unnecessary, which seems to point to why GRiD eventually abandoned the 1287 and went to the 146818 clocking chip maintained by the Tadiran battery.
Granted there is some speculation here, but I think the evidence supporting it is solid. So the problem here is altering the 1520 BIOS code to eliminate the need to recognize a new 1287 chip, or simply to tell the computer to accept the chip no matter its ID number. To do this, I have to disassemble the BIOS code. I am attempting to do this now using IDA disassmebler, but it very slow going. I dallied with assembly code back in the 80's, but I simply don't know enough about it, or how to operate the IDA well enough to easily smoke out all the code. I have to learn all this stuff again, which is going to take time, and also take my digging out a whole lot of old books I have in storage. But I think I will make progress once I think hard enough on it. Right now, though, I have too many other irons in the fire. One of these days, I'll get back to it.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...> wrote:
>
> Â No the 2202 has a larger connector. Perhaps 19 pins or so. That's why I mentioned a 3rd party trade.
> I have 8 1meg Sipps in my 1520s. ISTR something about 16megs in a 15xx and it could have been Pyramid. I had some old usenet posts of Grid references, but finding them would be a problem.
>
> Â I wasn't aware of this problem with the Dallas chip. I was always under the impression that simply grounding one of the pins as outlined in the Dallas specs, wiped out anything in the BIOS memory and then they worked.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, November 14, 2009 3:23:22 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
>
> Â
> Thanks, Lawrence,
>
> I appreciate the offer. Do you know if the 2202 will work with the 1500 series? I don't have any contact with any other GRiD collectors, and a google search came up empty. If the 2202 will work, then I think I may be able to accommodate you. I am set up to be able to burn EPROMS for a 1520. But I have to find an appropriate hard drive. I've been able to succesfully adapt the CGS420 like Shawn did, as well as three other models, a 100 Mb, a 120Mb and a 170Mb. I should be able to copy and burn the chips as I have those computers with me. I just have to find the HDD.
> This all came about as I recently came into possession of a 1535 EXP in mint condition. I only had to replace the Tadiran battery and it booted up perfectly. This model has the HDD but no floppy, so right now I don't have a way to interact with the computer in terms of file transfer. I could use PCMASTER/PCSLAVE, I suppose, as my main desktop has a serial port on it I can use, and remarkably I have installed on it a legacy 5.25" floppy as my Drive B:, just in case, so the 2202 would work. Of course I could also do it with one of my other GRiDs, which have floppy disks, but this options is a pain. I'd rather have a floppy I can attach to this unit.
> One other option I have is that I bought an old Dell 1.44 Mb floppy drive for $3.00, that is parallel port connected. I'm going to try that and see if the computer will see it. If so, that would solve my problems.
> Another option is that I do have the expansion tray for the 1535. I can just connect it and then find a legacy hardware card to insert in it that would hook up to a floppy drive in some way..
> But if these options don't work, I'll probably be looking for an appropriate HDD for you, Lawrence. If I happen to run across one in any case, I'll see if I can snag it for you.
> I snagged some 1 Mb low profile SIPP's off E-pay, four of them. I haggled the price down a lot, but I still paid too much.....meh. However, I have some other irons in the fire that may pan out in terms of getting more of those memory sticks.
> I remember that there was some kit by Pyramid(?), or somebody, where you could actually insert 16 Mb of RAM into the computer. Do you happen to recall the details on that adaptation? I have toyed with several ideas on solving this problem with the RAM. I have not been able to find any SIPP to SIMM adapters that would fit. The distance between the pin banks on the MoBo is 0.2 inches. Every adapter I ever found was at least 0.3 inches thick, and also to wide as well, interfering with both the video card and the indicator light array.
> After looking and discarding several ideas, it seems the only way to solve the problem is to actually design and produce some type of interface. I envisioned some pin inserts that would be place permanently into the SIPP slots, and all 240 wires (probably on a ribbon) would have to connect to a small board that would accept up to 4x4Mb SIMM's, which would be a lot easier to find. But this is far beyond my capabilities. I would have to get some manufacturer to do it, and would probably be prohibitively expensive. Ah,well. It's nice to dream.
> One other thing. I recently procured several new Dallas RTC 1287A chips. These are exact replacements for the ones on the GRiD computers. They came from a batch intended to be used in a bunch of old Dells in 1989, but never were used. Since they were never connected, the batteries appear to be okay. I replaced one in a 1520 I have, but the BIOS saw it as a different chip and kept asking for the BIOS password, which of course is the problem that we always ran into before, when trying to replace the 1520's RTC chip, along with the fact that you cannot use the 12887A in 16 bit machines. This is not a problem with the 1530's,a s the BIOS there allows one to replace the 1287 without a problem
> I finally talked to someone experienced in assembly language from that era who told me that he thought the issue was a security feature. Each Dallas 1287 and 1287A has its own identifier number, and the BIOS is programmed to recognize the original chip that came with that board. This semes to make some sense as GRiD's were used by the Military and NASA. He seemed to think that if you could find the code in the BIOS, it could be altered to accept the new 1287A chip, which also makes sense since the 1530 BIOS can do it. I am presently looking into doing that. I am using a disassembler to break down the BIOS code into assembly instructions. Then I will see if I can find someone who is familiar enough with this to figure out if this is truly the case.
> This is the state of my research so far, when I have time. Again, thanks for the offer. I'll get back to you on that if these other options don't work.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > While I have both of the external drives you mention I won't part with them. But what I do have is a massive
> > 5 1/4 Grid 2202 meant I imagine for one of the earlier models. It must be coveted, perhaps it's for the Grid Compass. It also has a cable for the different interface. If you have contact with any of the earlier Grid collectors who might have a GRid external 15xx fdd or two, perhaps you could arrange a 3rd party trade.
> >
> > Â In return I would want a working HDD for the Grid 1520, preferably a larger HD and altered BIOS chips.
> >  I think that would be a good trade for all concerned. The 2202, like the C-64 and other computers, has 2 ports meant for chaining drives and well worth 2 fdds for you in exchange because of it's rarity.
> >
> > Â As for the SIPPs, you might try a post on the Vintage Computer Forum. After long unfruitful searches on E-Pay for them I managed to get 8 (for my 2 1520s) there from a guy in Belgium. I think the main criteria is Standard or Low Profile SIPPS. I don't think there were many higher than Standard SIPPS produced. The ones I got worked fine. I ran Win3.1 with extended memory with them. You could measure the clearance between the socket and the cover to ensure they would fit in the case.
> >
> > Lawrence
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads. yahoo.com/ ca/internetexplo rer/
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now
> http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:50:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
text/plain; charset=utf-8
________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 1:38:36 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
There is an interesting discussion going on in the Vintage Computer Forum regarding problems with replacing the Dallas chip in some IBM PS1/PS2 s
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?t=18169
It also references a MCA Mafia site with some references to the Dallas 1287
http://www.tavi.co.uk/ps2pages/battery.html#8509237
notably that the "A" on these models eg: 1287A designated that they had a reset pin to erase the BIOS which was crucial on the Grid to get rid of an unwanted password, which I used successfully on my 1520. Could that have been the problem with the Grid security issues ? I don't recall the number on my chip but it did have a reset ground pin combination which I filed in the files archive, quoting from the Dallas page. There was also some mention by a former Grid tech posted about a common password
reset which could be supplied to customers having problems.
Lawrence
Thanks, Lawrence,
Ken S. has provided me the alternative for the floppy drive. I have done some research into the Dallas RTC. The BIOS of the 1530 is rewritten for 32 bit operation, which of course is why the 12887 can be used. The 12887 has its internal registers rerouted internally to allow for 32 bit operation. If it is used in a 16 bit machine like the 1520, the BIOS tries to access the wrong registers because they are addressed differently. This is why we always had to go back to configuring the internal battery connection to an external battery as we have done, since the 1287 was no longer made. We had always thought that if we could ever find 1287's, it would simply be a matter of replacing them.
Well, I got my chance when I found these old unused 1287's. I put one in an old 1520 I had procured. To my surprise, I got the recurring question asking for the BIOS password, which is exactly what happens when someone tries to put a 12887 onto a 1520 board. In case you don't know, when the original Dallas RTC chip on a 1520 is replaced with a 12887, the BIOS recognizes that it is a different chip. Right after the POST, it executes some code in the BIOS asking for a BIOS password. I think what happens was that GRiD took the original Phoenix BIOS code and altered it for their own purposes, but did not completely rewrite it. I think that since the RTC was never intended to be replaced, they never took out the code that asked for the password, but they did take out the code for providing an answer, possibly because they needed the room for more specific code for the 1520, or maybe for security purposes. The end result is that if that code is executed, it
will ask for the password right after boot up. It doesn't matter what answer is given. Once the enter button is hit, the code just forces the computer into a warm boot, and it locks the computer into this interminable loop, never allowing it to completely boot up. We always thought this was because the 12887 was too different, but now that I have tried an exact replacement, we know now that is not enough to solve the problem.
As I noted, I was able to contact a company that specialized in rewriting BIOS assembly code for older computers, but the GRiD was too old even for them. But they did tell me that the Dallas RTC chips were used for security purposes in identification of computers and their speculation was that this was one of the purposes, if not the purpose, for its use in a GRiD Laptop which was often used for NASA and military applications like Freddy FADAC fire control units for army artillery in Desert Storm. If this was the case, then the BIOS of each 1520 from those earlier GRiD days would be attuned to only one specific 1287 chip, sort of like DNA, I guess. Replacing it would make the BIOS balk at using the new one. Since this was not a problem in the 1287 chips in the later 1530's that used the RTC, it was either a hardwiring issue on the MoBo or it was the BIOS that was different. The programmer to whom I spoke felt it was more likely the BIOS since it was
simply a matter of recognizing the chip, which probably has some sort of ID number embedded in it. The BIOS code in the 1530's simply ignores it, since at the point the new 32 bit computers were coming out in 1985 or so, the security intent of using those chips apparently had become outmoded or unnecessary, which seems to point to why GRiD eventually abandoned the 1287 and went to the 146818 clocking chip maintained by the Tadiran battery.
Granted there is some speculation here, but I think the evidence supporting it is solid. So the problem here is altering the 1520 BIOS code to eliminate the need to recognize a new 1287 chip, or simply to tell the computer to accept the chip no matter its ID number. To do this, I have to disassemble the BIOS code. I am attempting to do this now using IDA disassmebler, but it very slow going. I dallied with assembly code back in the 80's, but I simply don't know enough about it, or how to operate the IDA well enough to easily smoke out all the code. I have to learn all this stuff again, which is going to take time, and also take my digging out a whole lot of old books I have in storage. But I think I will make progress once I think hard enough on it. Right now, though, I have too many other irons in the fire. One of these days, I'll get back to it.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@ ...> wrote:
>
> Ă‚ No the 2202 has a larger connector. Perhaps 19 pins or so. That's why I mentioned a 3rd party trade.
> I have 8 1meg Sipps in my 1520s. ISTR something about 16megs in a 15xx and it could have been Pyramid. I had some old usenet posts of Grid references, but finding them would be a problem.
>
> Ă‚ I wasn't aware of this problem with the Dallas chip. I was always under the impression that simply grounding one of the pins as outlined in the Dallas specs, wiped out anything in the BIOS memory and then they worked.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@. ..>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Sat, November 14, 2009 3:23:22 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
>
> Ă‚
> Thanks, Lawrence,
>
> I appreciate the offer. Do you know if the 2202 will work with the 1500 series? I don't have any contact with any other GRiD collectors, and a google search came up empty. If the 2202 will work, then I think I may be able to accommodate you. I am set up to be able to burn EPROMS for a 1520. But I have to find an appropriate hard drive. I've been able to succesfully adapt the CGS420 like Shawn did, as well as three other models, a 100 Mb, a 120Mb and a 170Mb. I should be able to copy and burn the chips as I have those computers with me. I just have to find the HDD.
> This all came about as I recently came into possession of a 1535 EXP in mint condition. I only had to replace the Tadiran battery and it booted up perfectly. This model has the HDD but no floppy, so right now I don't have a way to interact with the computer in terms of file transfer. I could use PCMASTER/PCSLAVE, I suppose, as my main desktop has a serial port on it I can use, and remarkably I have installed on it a legacy 5.25" floppy as my Drive B:, just in case, so the 2202 would work. Of course I could also do it with one of my other GRiDs, which have floppy disks, but this options is a pain. I'd rather have a floppy I can attach to this unit.
> One other option I have is that I bought an old Dell 1.44 Mb floppy drive for $3.00, that is parallel port connected. I'm going to try that and see if the computer will see it. If so, that would solve my problems.
> Another option is that I do have the expansion tray for the 1535. I can just connect it and then find a legacy hardware card to insert in it that would hook up to a floppy drive in some way..
> But if these options don't work, I'll probably be looking for an appropriate HDD for you, Lawrence. If I happen to run across one in any case, I'll see if I can snag it for you.
> I snagged some 1 Mb low profile SIPP's off E-pay, four of them. I haggled the price down a lot, but I still paid too much.....meh. However, I have some other irons in the fire that may pan out in terms of getting more of those memory sticks.
> I remember that there was some kit by Pyramid(?), or somebody, where you could actually insert 16 Mb of RAM into the computer. Do you happen to recall the details on that adaptation? I have toyed with several ideas on solving this problem with the RAM. I have not been able to find any SIPP to SIMM adapters that would fit. The distance between the pin banks on the MoBo is 0.2 inches. Every adapter I ever found was at least 0.3 inches thick, and also to wide as well, interfering with both the video card and the indicator light array.
> After looking and discarding several ideas, it seems the only way to solve the problem is to actually design and produce some type of interface. I envisioned some pin inserts that would be place permanently into the SIPP slots, and all 240 wires (probably on a ribbon) would have to connect to a small board that would accept up to 4x4Mb SIMM's, which would be a lot easier to find. But this is far beyond my capabilities. I would have to get some manufacturer to do it, and would probably be prohibitively expensive. Ah,well. It's nice to dream.
> One other thing. I recently procured several new Dallas RTC 1287A chips. These are exact replacements for the ones on the GRiD computers. They came from a batch intended to be used in a bunch of old Dells in 1989, but never were used. Since they were never connected, the batteries appear to be okay. I replaced one in a 1520 I have, but the BIOS saw it as a different chip and kept asking for the BIOS password, which of course is the problem that we always ran into before, when trying to replace the 1520's RTC chip, along with the fact that you cannot use the 12887A in 16 bit machines. This is not a problem with the 1530's,a s the BIOS there allows one to replace the 1287 without a problem
> I finally talked to someone experienced in assembly language from that era who told me that he thought the issue was a security feature. Each Dallas 1287 and 1287A has its own identifier number, and the BIOS is programmed to recognize the original chip that came with that board. This semes to make some sense as GRiD's were used by the Military and NASA. He seemed to think that if you could find the code in the BIOS, it could be altered to accept the new 1287A chip, which also makes sense since the 1530 BIOS can do it. I am presently looking into doing that. I am using a disassembler to break down the BIOS code into assembly instructions. Then I will see if I can find someone who is familiar enough with this to figure out if this is truly the case.
> This is the state of my research so far, when I have time. Again, thanks for the offer. I'll get back to you on that if these other options don't work.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > While I have both of the external drives you mention I won't part with them. But what I do have is a massive
> > 5 1/4 Grid 2202 meant I imagine for one of the earlier models. It must be coveted, perhaps it's for the Grid Compass. It also has a cable for the different interface. If you have contact with any of the earlier Grid collectors who might have a GRid external 15xx fdd or two, perhaps you could arrange a 3rd party trade.
> >
> > Ă‚ In return I would want a working HDD for the Grid 1520, preferably a larger HD and altered BIOS chips.
> >  I think that would be a good trade for all concerned. The 2202, like the C-64 and other computers, has 2 ports meant for chaining drives and well worth 2 fdds for you in exchange because of it's rarity.
> >
> > Ă‚ As for the SIPPs, you might try a post on the Vintage Computer Forum. After long unfruitful searches on E-Pay for them I managed to get 8 (for my 2 1520s) there from a guy in Belgium. I think the main criteria is Standard or Low Profile SIPPS. I don't think there were many higher than Standard SIPPS produced. The ones I got worked fine. I ran Win3.1 with extended memory with them. You could measure the clearance between the socket and the cover to ensure they would fit in the case.
> >
> > Lawrence
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads. yahoo.com/ ca/internetexplo rer/
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now
> http://ca.toolbar. yahoo.com.
>
__________________________________________________________________
Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:47:45 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re:
The discussion seems to reflect the differences between the two computers. The PS1/PS2 probably had different BIOS code to handle the Dallas RTC, which may account for its different behavior in those computers. The references to the MCA site do list the Dallas RTC characteristics that we've seen before.
However, I am curious how you managed to use the RESET pin to clear the password from your 1520. I have never heard of this happening, and all the research I have done on the GRiD says this isn't possible. Nobody else has been able to do this that I know. I have tried shorting the pins myself on several occasions with no effect on the BIOS password loop. So I am interested on how you managed to do it. According to the 12887 spec sheet you provided, the procedure described says this:
"The RCLR pin is used to clear (set to logic 1) all 114
bytes of general purpose RAM but does not affect the RAM associated with the real-time clock. In order to clear the RAM, RCLR must be forced to an input logic 0 (-0.3V to +0.8V) during battery-backup mode
when VCC is not applied. The RCLR function is designed to be used via human interface (shorting to ground manually or by switch) and not to be driven with external buffers. For a complete description of operating conditions, electrical characteristics, bus timing and pin
descriptions other than RCLR , see the DS12887 data sheet."
The ground is pin 12, RESET is pin 18, and RCLR is 21. I've tried shorting both of these last two pins to ground and was never able to get the password loop to disappear. All the sources I looked at on the 1287 in any computer tells me that once you are locked in this loop, the only thing you can do is replace the RTC, which of course is the conundrum since that was what was done in the first place. The 12887 has 64K more RAM, reflecting its adaptation to a 32 bit machine and its unusability to a 16 bit machine, but I am not sure these specs would apply to a 1287, despite the fact the pin placements are exactly the same. The difference between the 1287 and 1287A is only the RESET pin, which on the 1287 is simply disconnected. The GRiD wasn't intended to originally use the 1287A, but I see no reason why it could not be used. Anyway, I would like to know how you managed to get rid of this problem. Thanks.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 1:38:36 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
>
> There is an interesting discussion going on in the Vintage Computer Forum regarding problems with replacing the Dallas chip in some IBM PS1/PS2 s
> http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?t=18169
> It also references a MCA Mafia site with some references to the Dallas 1287
> http://www.tavi.co.uk/ps2pages/battery.html#8509237
> notably that the "A" on these models eg: 1287A designated that they had a reset pin to erase the BIOS which was crucial on the Grid to get rid of an unwanted password, which I used successfully on my 1520. Could that have been the problem with the Grid security issues ? I don't recall the number on my chip but it did have a reset ground pin combination which I filed in the files archive, quoting from the Dallas page. There was also some mention by a former Grid tech posted about a common password
> reset which could be supplied to customers having problems.
>
> Lawrence
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:36:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
text/plain; charset=utf-8
It has been many years since I did this and I can't remember the process. All I remember is that I followed the process described by Dallas and it worked. For some reason pin 22 sticks in my mind, but it could have been pin 21.This was done on the original Dallas chip not a 12887 replacement. I could have also grounded the pin to an available ground point, but I think it was another pin, likely pin 12. I was so confident in it's results I posted the Dallas specs. I haven't read the Dallas file for many years but it did specify the "A' chip as having a reset.
The PS/2 suggests another chip(I forget the #) as replacement, not the 12887. could that also work ? The common thread is losing the time, which was never a problem on my 1520s. I simply entered the correct time. I also don't recall any problem with the 2K barrier related to the use of 2digit year identifiers. My 2 1520s were branded for the Canadian Post office and used by sales representatives and I imagine other staff. That must have been a major sale for Grid. Could there be some differences in the
models ? They both also used DecNet in phone transmissions to the central office.
Lawrence
________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 7:47:45 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
The discussion seems to reflect the differences between the two computers. The PS1/PS2 probably had different BIOS code to handle the Dallas RTC, which may account for its different behavior in those computers. The references to the MCA site do list the Dallas RTC characteristics that we've seen before.
However, I am curious how you managed to use the RESET pin to clear the password from your 1520. I have never heard of this happening, and all the research I have done on the GRiD says this isn't possible. Nobody else has been able to do this that I know. I have tried shorting the pins myself on several occasions with no effect on the BIOS password loop. So I am interested on how you managed to do it. According to the 12887 spec sheet you provided, the procedure described says this:
"The RCLR pin is used to clear (set to logic 1) all 114
bytes of general purpose RAM but does not affect the RAM associated with the real-time clock. In order to clear the RAM, RCLR must be forced to an input logic 0 (-0.3V to +0.8V) during battery-backup mode
when VCC is not applied. The RCLR function is designed to be used via human interface (shorting to ground manually or by switch) and not to be driven with external buffers. For a complete description of operating conditions, electrical characteristics, bus timing and pin
descriptions other than RCLR , see the DS12887 data sheet."
The ground is pin 12, RESET is pin 18, and RCLR is 21. I've tried shorting both of these last two pins to ground and was never able to get the password loop to disappear. All the sources I looked at on the 1287 in any computer tells me that once you are locked in this loop, the only thing you can do is replace the RTC, which of course is the conundrum since that was what was done in the first place. The 12887 has 64K more RAM, reflecting its adaptation to a 32 bit machine and its unusability to a 16 bit machine, but I am not sure these specs would apply to a 1287, despite the fact the pin placements are exactly the same. The difference between the 1287 and 1287A is only the RESET pin, which on the 1287 is simply disconnected. The GRiD wasn't intended to originally use the 1287A, but I see no reason why it could not be used. Anyway, I would like to know how you managed to get rid of this problem. Thanks.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@ ...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@. ..>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 1:38:36 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
>
> There is an interesting discussion going on in the Vintage Computer Forum regarding problems with replacing the Dallas chip in some IBM PS1/PS2 s
> http://www.vintage- computer. com/vcforum/ showthread. php?t=18169
> It also references a MCA Mafia site with some references to the Dallas 1287
> http://www.tavi. co.uk/ps2pages/ battery.html# 8509237
> notably that the "A" on these models eg: 1287A designated that they had a reset pin to erase the BIOS which was crucial on the Grid to get rid of an unwanted password, which I used successfully on my 1520. Could that have been the problem with the Grid security issues ? I don't recall the number on my chip but it did have a reset ground pin combination which I filed in the files archive, quoting from the Dallas page. There was also some mention by a former Grid tech posted about a common password
> reset which could be supplied to customers having problems.
>
> Lawrence
__________________________________________________________________
Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:58:33 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re:
I see,
So is the process recomended by Dallas described somewhere? Maybe I'm just not following the right procedure. I simply did what the spec sheet said you could do to clear the RAM and reset the clock, but maybe there was something else involved. It's just that I am not sure just Resetting or clearing the RAM is sufficient to clear the passsword question out.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...> wrote:
>
> It has been many years since I did this and I can't remember the process. All I remember is that I followed the process described by Dallas and it worked. For some reason pin 22 sticks in my mind, but it could have been pin 21.This was done on the original Dallas chip not a 12887 replacement. I could have also grounded the pin to an available ground point, but I think it was another pin, likely pin 12. I was so confident in it's results I posted the Dallas specs. I haven't read the Dallas file for many years but it did specify the "A' chip as having a reset.
>
> The PS/2 suggests another chip(I forget the #) as replacement, not the 12887. could that also work ? The common thread is losing the time, which was never a problem on my 1520s. I simply entered the correct time. I also don't recall any problem with the 2K barrier related to the use of 2digit year identifiers. My 2 1520s were branded for the Canadian Post office and used by sales representatives and I imagine other staff. That must have been a major sale for Grid. Could there be some differences in the
> models ? They both also used DecNet in phone transmissions to the central office.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 7:47:45 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
>
>
> The discussion seems to reflect the differences between the two computers. The PS1/PS2 probably had different BIOS code to handle the Dallas RTC, which may account for its different behavior in those computers. The references to the MCA site do list the Dallas RTC characteristics that we've seen before.
> However, I am curious how you managed to use the RESET pin to clear the password from your 1520. I have never heard of this happening, and all the research I have done on the GRiD says this isn't possible. Nobody else has been able to do this that I know. I have tried shorting the pins myself on several occasions with no effect on the BIOS password loop. So I am interested on how you managed to do it. According to the 12887 spec sheet you provided, the procedure described says this:
>
> "The RCLR pin is used to clear (set to logic 1) all 114
> bytes of general purpose RAM but does not affect the RAM associated with the real-time clock. In order to clear the RAM, RCLR must be forced to an input logic 0 (-0.3V to +0.8V) during battery-backup mode
> when VCC is not applied. The RCLR function is designed to be used via human interface (shorting to ground manually or by switch) and not to be driven with external buffers. For a complete description of operating conditions, electrical characteristics, bus timing and pin
> descriptions other than RCLR , see the DS12887 data sheet."
>
> The ground is pin 12, RESET is pin 18, and RCLR is 21. I've tried shorting both of these last two pins to ground and was never able to get the password loop to disappear. All the sources I looked at on the 1287 in any computer tells me that once you are locked in this loop, the only thing you can do is replace the RTC, which of course is the conundrum since that was what was done in the first place. The 12887 has 64K more RAM, reflecting its adaptation to a 32 bit machine and its unusability to a 16 bit machine, but I am not sure these specs would apply to a 1287, despite the fact the pin placements are exactly the same. The difference between the 1287 and 1287A is only the RESET pin, which on the 1287 is simply disconnected. The GRiD wasn't intended to originally use the 1287A, but I see no reason why it could not be used. Anyway, I would like to know how you managed to get rid of this problem. Thanks.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@ ..>
> > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 1:38:36 PM
> > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
> >
> > There is an interesting discussion going on in the Vintage Computer Forum regarding problems with replacing the Dallas chip in some IBM PS1/PS2 s
> > http://www.vintage- computer. com/vcforum/ showthread. php?t=18169
> > It also references a MCA Mafia site with some references to the Dallas 1287
> > http://www.tavi. co.uk/ps2pages/ battery.html# 8509237
> > notably that the "A" on these models eg: 1287A designated that they had a reset pin to erase the BIOS which was crucial on the Grid to get rid of an unwanted password, which I used successfully on my 1520. Could that have been the problem with the Grid security issues ? I don't recall the number on my chip but it did have a reset ground pin combination which I filed in the files archive, quoting from the Dallas page. There was also some mention by a former Grid tech posted about a common password
> > reset which could be supplied to customers having problems.
> >
> > Lawrence
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
>
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 23:12:15 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Progress on the Dallas DS 1287 RTC dilemma
Okay guys,
How many of you are having the same problem I am having with replacing the Dallas DS1287 chip on a 1520 motherboard and running into the interminable password problem? I think I may have an answer to this. I have been able to secure the services of an assembly coder who has looked at the BIOS code and he has informed me of the following:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
1) The subroutines asking the for the BIOS passsword appear to be at the following addresses in the BIOS code:
seg000:0CC2 call sub_737B
seg000:0CC5 call sub_71D2
seg000:0CC8 call sub_723A
seg000:0CCB jnb short loc_CE3
seg000:0CCD call sub_7291
seg000:0CD0 jnb short loc_CE3
seg000:0CD2 call loc_72D8
seg000:0CD5 mov ds, word ptr cs:0C5E6h
seg000:0CDA mov ds:word_72, 1234h
seg000:0CE0 jmp loc_A6
Notes: (1) The subroutine called for at 000:0CC2 (also cs:0CC2 BTW) calls for the routine at address cs:737B to input the password from the keyboard.
(2) The subroutine called for at cs:0CC5 is a subroutine that does something with preparing to compare the entered password with what is stored in the computer. In and of itself it isn't important.
(3) The subroutine called for at 0CC8 compares the entered string from the keyboard to the stored password and determines if it is valid.
(4) If the password is valid, the carry flag will be cleared. The instruction at 0CCB is a conditional jump. If the carry flag is NOT cleared (Password failed), then the computer issues the string to the keyboard, "Invalid password; Press any key". Once a keystroke is entered, the computer then jumps to the instruction at location 0CE3 (cs:0CE3), which executes a reboot, which then creates the endless loop problem.
(5) The next instruction at cs:0CCD apparently calls for the the subroutine that accesses the date from the real time clock and processes it in some manner (I haven't gotten an explanation of that subroutine, and I don't know enough about assembly to parse that out without really pulling all my books out and taking the time to do it, which I don't have right now.), but it isn't important for the purpose at hand.
(6) The instruction at cs:0CD0 again calls for a conditional jump. I'm not sure why but it probably has nothing to do with the BIOS password, and therefore is not that important to this discussion. It should not be a problem here.
(7) If both of these conditional jumps are satisfied, the reading of code continues to the next instruction at cs:0CD2 which sets the cursor position, then calls for movement of some data from the BIOS into certain registers and then at cs:0CE0, calls for the execution of the subroutine at location 00A6 (cs:00A6), which seems to be the reading in of data from the real time clock into the processors and using it. The computer should then continue to boot up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The final routine for comparison of the entered password with what is stored is as follows from my source: (These are his words)
I have found out that:
- the password can be up to 8 bytes.
- Is stored at cs:F0FC in the eeprom (xor'd)
? if the password doesn't match, there is a backdoor.
? the backdoor is the current date in YYMMDD form
I am not exactly sure about the last two. They might work.
(BTW, I did try them. They didn't work. Also address F0FCh does not exist, but may simply be a mask for 70FCh, which is what we are thinking.)
The call at 0CC8 checks the password you entered.
00000CC8 E86F65 call 00000723Ah
0000723A 50 push ax
0000723B 51 push cx
0000723C 52 push dx
0000723D 56 push si
0000723E 57 push di
0000723F 1E push ds
00007240 06 push es
00007241 FC cld
00007242 B97000 mov cx,0070h
00007245 8EC1 mov es,cx
00007247 33FF xor di,di
00007249 8ED9 mov ds,cx
0000724B BE0800 mov si,0008h
0000724E E8CFFF call 000007220h
; create password from user entered and saved at cs:F0FCh (70FCh)
00007220 53 push bx
00007221 51 push cx
00007222 BBFCF0 mov bx,0F0FCh ; <------ 70FCh
00007225 B90800 mov cx,0008h
00007228 2E8A07 mov al,cs:[bx]
0000722B 268A25 mov ah,es:[di]
0000722E 32C4 xor al,ah
00007230 8804 mov [si],al
00007232 47 inc di
00007233 46 inc si
00007234 43 inc bx
00007235 E2F1 loop 000007228h
00007237 59 pop cx
00007238 5B pop bx
00007239 C3 ret
00007251 BF1000 mov di,0010h
00007254 8CC0 mov ax,es
00007256 8ED8 mov ds,ax
00007258 B034 mov al,34h
0000725A 8AE0 mov ah,al
0000725C B90800 mov cx,0008h
0000725F E800D5 call 000004762h
00004762 52 push dx
00004763 BA7000 mov dx,0070h
00004766 E81F00 call 000004788h
00004788 C3 ret
00004769 FA cli
0000476A EE out dx,al
0000476B 42 inc dx
0000476C EB00 jmp 00000476Eh
0000476E EB00 jmp 000004770h
00004770 EC in al,dx
00004771 5A pop dx
00004772 C3 ret
00007262 AA stosb
00007263 FEC4 inc ah
00007265 8AC4 mov al,ah
00007267 E2F6 loop 00000725Fh
00007269 BF1000 mov di,0010h
0000726C BE0800 mov si,0008h
0000726F E87701 call 0000073E9h ; compare string
000073E9 B90800 mov cx,0008h
000073EC F3A6 repe cmpsb
000073EE 7403 jz 0000073F3h
000073F0 F9 stc
000073F1 EB01 jmp 0000073F4h
000073F3 F8 clc
000073F4 C3 ret
00007272 07 pop es
00007273 1F pop ds
00007274 5F pop di
00007275 5E pop si
00007276 5A pop dx
00007277 59 pop cx
00007278 58 pop ax
00007279 C3 ret
; Here the carry flag will be clear if the password was
; entered correctly. (A correct password)
This is the code that the BIOS uses to 'create' a password check
from the (max) 8 bytes you entered. If the value at 70FCh is
000070FC db 5Bh, 44h, 5Eh, 68h, 7Dh, 5Fh, 7Ch, 4Dh (....[D^h}_|M....)
Then reverse the process above and you should be able to get
the password needed.
Also, it looks like the password is stored in the CMOS chip
at offset 34h, read 8 times. If you can read in this register
8 times, viewing what the result it, this will tell you what
the password is, xor'ed using the code above.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
So basically, what this tells us is that the "password" is stored at in the memory of the DS1287 at Offset 34h. But this is not the actual password. What the routine does is that it takes the true password and XOR's it against the 8 byte data section in the BIOS starting at address cs:70FCh. It takes the result of each operation for all eight bytes and stores them on the CMOS chip. So in order to get the real password, you have to take what is stored on the DS1287, reverse the XOR process against the BIOS byte at cs:70CFh, and that will reveal the actual password that should be entered.
So where does that take us? We have two options.
(1) The first option is to find or write some program that will directly dump out the contents of the memory of the Dallas DS 1287 RTC chip. This will give us the data at offset 34h in the memory. Take those 8 bytes and do a reverse XOR calculation against the data byte at BIOS address cs:70FCh, and this should reveal the actual password.
(2) The second option suggested by my source is to rewrite the BIOS code directly and bypass this subroutine altogether, assuming that nobody wants to keep the BIOS password option around. This would require burning two new EPROM BIOS chips. The changes in the code should be as follows: (His words)
-------------------------------------------------------------
You will need to burn the modified bios to a chip, so do you
have some spares to try? If so, do the following:
In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:
offset from to
0x0CC2 0xE8 0x90
0x0CC3 0xB6 0x90
0x0CC4 0x66 0x90
0x0CC8 0xE8 0x90
0x0CC9 0x6F 0x90
0x0CCA 0x65 0x90
0x0CCB 0x73 0xEB
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This will skip the password stuff altogether. What this does exactly is that the call for the subroutine at 737B is cancelled. The computer never asks for the password. The code for no operation (90h) is substituted for the command and the address over those three bytes. The call for the routine at 0CC5 then becomes meaningless and unimportant, but does no damage and can be ignored. The call for subroutine at cs:723A is also cancelled, again substituting no operation codes in its place. This bypasses the comparison of an entered password to the stored password altogether. The critical code that is substituted at cs:0CCB is wherethe conditional jump that would have failed the password check and rebooted the machine is located. The substitution code (EB) signals only a short jump, I believe, to the next instruction, which should continue the rest of the checks on downward and continue to boot the machine up completely to the OS.
This will require burning new BIOS chips to try this. I don't have any right now, but I am expecting some within a couple of days and I plan on trying this. For anyone else who wants to try this, remember to adjust the databytes at the very beginning of the BIOS code file to keep the checksum on each chip the same as before. (If you're not sure of this, see Shawn's instructions on altering the BIOS code for a different hard drive.)
However, I also wanted to ask if anyone out there is able to write a program, or knows how to get one, which will dump out the memory of the DS1287, as that could be quite helpful as well.
Anyway, I hope some of you guys can develop this out a little more. I'll let you know what I find out.
Phil
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:28:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Progress on the Dallas DS 1287 RTC dilemma
Wow, Phil!
VERY good information!!
One of the backdoor's listed is to enter the date in YYMMDD format. The problem with this is I'm sure it is the YYMMDD relative to the chip. Because you have no idea what the RTC thinks the date is, it is hit or miss. I cannot remember what the default date is on the Grid when the date/time information has been lost. I think it's December 1, 1980. HHmmm January 1, 1980 seems to make more sense.
Anyway, execellent work Phil!
Side question: I would really like to know *how* your contact was able to do this. I want to learn.
My guess is something similar is going on with the Conner hard drive detection (XOR of some value) as well as the EPROM checksum.
Thank you very much!
-Shawn
----- Original Message ----
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, December 7, 2009 6:12:15 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Progress on the Dallas DS 1287 RTC dilemma
Okay guys,
How many of you are having the same problem I am having with replacing the Dallas DS1287 chip on a 1520 motherboard and running into the interminable password problem? I think I may have an answer to this. I have been able to secure the services of an assembly coder who has looked at the BIOS code and he has informed me of the following:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
1) The subroutines asking the for the BIOS passsword appear to be at the following addresses in the BIOS code:
seg000:0CC2 call sub_737B
seg000:0CC5 call sub_71D2
seg000:0CC8 call sub_723A
seg000:0CCB jnb short loc_CE3
seg000:0CCD call sub_7291
seg000:0CD0 jnb short loc_CE3
seg000:0CD2 call loc_72D8
seg000:0CD5 mov ds, word ptr cs:0C5E6h
seg000:0CDA mov ds:word_72, 1234h
seg000:0CE0 jmp loc_A6
Notes: (1) The subroutine called for at 000:0CC2 (also cs:0CC2 BTW) calls for the routine at address cs:737B to input the password from the keyboard.
(2) The subroutine called for at cs:0CC5 is a subroutine that does something with preparing to compare the entered password with what is stored in the computer. In and of itself it isn't important.
(3) The subroutine called for at 0CC8 compares the entered string from the keyboard to the stored password and determines if it is valid.
(4) If the password is valid, the carry flag will be cleared. The instruction at 0CCB is a conditional jump. If the carry flag is NOT cleared (Password failed), then the computer issues the string to the keyboard, "Invalid password; Press any key". Once a keystroke is entered, the computer then jumps to the instruction at location 0CE3 (cs:0CE3), which executes a reboot, which then creates the endless loop problem.
(5) The next instruction at cs:0CCD apparently calls for the the subroutine that accesses the date from the real time clock and processes it in some manner (I haven't gotten an explanation of that subroutine, and I don't know enough about assembly to parse that out without really pulling all my books out and taking the time to do it, which I don't have right now.), but it isn't important for the purpose at hand.
(6) The instruction at cs:0CD0 again calls for a conditional jump. I'm not sure why but it probably has nothing to do with the BIOS password, and therefore is not that important to this discussion. It should not be a problem here.
(7) If both of these conditional jumps are satisfied, the reading of code continues to the next instruction at cs:0CD2 which sets the cursor position, then calls for movement of some data from the BIOS into certain registers and then at cs:0CE0, calls for the execution of the subroutine at location 00A6 (cs:00A6), which seems to be the reading in of data from the real time clock into the processors and using it. The computer should then continue to boot up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The final routine for comparison of the entered password with what is stored is as follows from my source: (These are his words)
I have found out that:
- the password can be up to 8 bytes.
- Is stored at cs:F0FC in the eeprom (xor'd)
? if the password doesn't match, there is a backdoor.
? the backdoor is the current date in YYMMDD form
I am not exactly sure about the last two. They might work.
(BTW, I did try them. They didn't work. Also address F0FCh does not exist, but may simply be a mask for 70FCh, which is what we are thinking.)
The call at 0CC8 checks the password you entered.
00000CC8 E86F65 call 00000723Ah
0000723A 50 push ax
0000723B 51 push cx
0000723C 52 push dx
0000723D 56 push si
0000723E 57 push di
0000723F 1E push ds
00007240 06 push es
00007241 FC cld
00007242 B97000 mov cx,0070h
00007245 8EC1 mov es,cx
00007247 33FF xor di,di
00007249 8ED9 mov ds,cx
0000724B BE0800 mov si,0008h
0000724E E8CFFF call 000007220h
; create password from user entered and saved at cs:F0FCh (70FCh)
00007220 53 push bx
00007221 51 push cx
00007222 BBFCF0 mov bx,0F0FCh ; <------ 70FCh
00007225 B90800 mov cx,0008h
00007228 2E8A07 mov al,cs:[bx]
0000722B 268A25 mov ah,es:[di]
0000722E 32C4 xor al,ah
00007230 8804 mov [si],al
00007232 47 inc di
00007233 46 inc si
00007234 43 inc bx
00007235 E2F1 loop 000007228h
00007237 59 pop cx
00007238 5B pop bx
00007239 C3 ret
00007251 BF1000 mov di,0010h
00007254 8CC0 mov ax,es
00007256 8ED8 mov ds,ax
00007258 B034 mov al,34h
0000725A 8AE0 mov ah,al
0000725C B90800 mov cx,0008h
0000725F E800D5 call 000004762h
00004762 52 push dx
00004763 BA7000 mov dx,0070h
00004766 E81F00 call 000004788h
00004788 C3 ret
00004769 FA cli
0000476A EE out dx,al
0000476B 42 inc dx
0000476C EB00 jmp 00000476Eh
0000476E EB00 jmp 000004770h
00004770 EC in al,dx
00004771 5A pop dx
00004772 C3 ret
00007262 AA stosb
00007263 FEC4 inc ah
00007265 8AC4 mov al,ah
00007267 E2F6 loop 00000725Fh
00007269 BF1000 mov di,0010h
0000726C BE0800 mov si,0008h
0000726F E87701 call 0000073E9h ; compare string
000073E9 B90800 mov cx,0008h
000073EC F3A6 repe cmpsb
000073EE 7403 jz 0000073F3h
000073F0 F9 stc
000073F1 EB01 jmp 0000073F4h
000073F3 F8 clc
000073F4 C3 ret
00007272 07 pop es
00007273 1F pop ds
00007274 5F pop di
00007275 5E pop si
00007276 5A pop dx
00007277 59 pop cx
00007278 58 pop ax
00007279 C3 ret
; Here the carry flag will be clear if the password was
; entered correctly. (A correct password)
This is the code that the BIOS uses to 'create' a password check
from the (max) 8 bytes you entered. If the value at 70FCh is
000070FC db 5Bh, 44h, 5Eh, 68h, 7Dh, 5Fh, 7Ch, 4Dh (....[D^h}_|M....)
Then reverse the process above and you should be able to get
the password needed.
Also, it looks like the password is stored in the CMOS chip
at offset 34h, read 8 times. If you can read in this register
8 times, viewing what the result it, this will tell you what
the password is, xor'ed using the code above.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
So basically, what this tells us is that the "password" is stored at in the memory of the DS1287 at Offset 34h. But this is not the actual password. What the routine does is that it takes the true password and XOR's it against the 8 byte data section in the BIOS starting at address cs:70FCh. It takes the result of each operation for all eight bytes and stores them on the CMOS chip. So in order to get the real password, you have to take what is stored on the DS1287, reverse the XOR process against the BIOS byte at cs:70CFh, and that will reveal the actual password that should be entered.
So where does that take us? We have two options.
(1) The first option is to find or write some program that will directly dump out the contents of the memory of the Dallas DS 1287 RTC chip. This will give us the data at offset 34h in the memory. Take those 8 bytes and do a reverse XOR calculation against the data byte at BIOS address cs:70FCh, and this should reveal the actual password.
(2) The second option suggested by my source is to rewrite the BIOS code directly and bypass this subroutine altogether, assuming that nobody wants to keep the BIOS password option around. This would require burning two new EPROM BIOS chips. The changes in the code should be as follows: (His words)
-------------------------------------------------------------
You will need to burn the modified bios to a chip, so do you
have some spares to try? If so, do the following:
In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:
offset from to
0x0CC2 0xE8 0x90
0x0CC3 0xB6 0x90
0x0CC4 0x66 0x90
0x0CC8 0xE8 0x90
0x0CC9 0x6F 0x90
0x0CCA 0x65 0x90
0x0CCB 0x73 0xEB
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This will skip the password stuff altogether. What this does exactly is that the call for the subroutine at 737B is cancelled. The computer never asks for the password. The code for no operation (90h) is substituted for the command and the address over those three bytes. The call for the routine at 0CC5 then becomes meaningless and unimportant, but does no damage and can be ignored. The call for subroutine at cs:723A is also cancelled, again substituting no operation codes in its place. This bypasses the comparison of an entered password to the stored password altogether. The critical code that is substituted at cs:0CCB is wherethe conditional jump that would have failed the password check and rebooted the machine is located. The substitution code (EB) signals only a short jump, I believe, to the next instruction, which should continue the rest of the checks on downward and continue to boot the machine up completely to the OS.
This will require burning new BIOS chips to try this. I don't have any right now, but I am expecting some within a couple of days and I plan on trying this. For anyone else who wants to try this, remember to adjust the databytes at the very beginning of the BIOS code file to keep the checksum on each chip the same as before. (If you're not sure of this, see Shawn's instructions on altering the BIOS code for a different hard drive.)
However, I also wanted to ask if anyone out there is able to write a program, or knows how to get one, which will dump out the memory of the DS1287, as that could be quite helpful as well.
Anyway, I hope some of you guys can develop this out a little more. I'll let you know what I find out.
Phil
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 01:20:34 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Progress on the Dallas DS 1287 RTC dilemma
Hi, Shawn,
Thanks! If I remember correctly, on those computers where I successfully did the external battery procedure on the DS1287 and successfully booted them back up, I think the default date was indeed January 1, 1980, when it asked for me to enter the current date and time. But I fired up the 1520 I have in which I replaced the DS1287 and this backdoor didn't work either. On a lark, I tried the date listed in the BIOS version message as well, and it didn't work either.
As to my contact, he is a programmer with many years of experience in assembly programming and other computing programming, who I found on the web with a web page for DOS software when I was looking for some programs. He is for hire doing assembly programming as well as programming in other languages. My impression is he knows the coding extremely well and can tell at a quick look what a group of instructions is calling for. I can see how that can be, as I can look at code and every now and then I can tell from a group of instructions what the code is asking for, but I'm a rank amateur compared to what this guy apparently can do.(He said he's been doing it ever since he was something like 8 years old.) Anyway, I thought it was possible to do this with him because 32 Kb of code is really a very small piece of coding to look at. It shouldn't take long at all.
As to learning how to do it, this is something I tried back in the 80's. I got the assembly language textbooks and just started going through it, learning as I went along, reading code, understanding what each separate instruction did, how to put them together, understanding the past conventions of coding already in place, etc. I just couldn't stay with it as real life got in the way, and I had to put it aside. But I would really love to learn it too. I just don't have the time.
I have engaged his services, although so far, he has been very kind and not actually charged me anything, just taking a very quick look at the code. Once we crack this (hopefully), I am thinking of asking him to completely decode the BIOS and send the actual instruction sequences with descriptions, depending on what he might charge me. The cool thing about that is if we can get it decoded, we might be able to do our own alterations and modify the uses of the machines as needed. Of course, we are stuck with only 32 kB to use, but I did notice there seems to be quite a bit of empty space (Look at all of the FF place holders in there.) But with the addition of the ROM chip space on top of the video card, that opens up a whole new world of possibilities. So it is definitely something worth considering.
My next step is trying this alteration of the code to bypass the password code. We'll see where it goes from there.
But do you know of, or can you create, a program that will dump the memory of the DS1287? I think I saw a spec sheet on the DS1287 at some point which lists at what addresses crucial bits of information go, including the hard drive info, but I can't find it. If we could get a dump of the chip's memory, that will help out tremendously. Then we could get that data and see where the checksum and hard drive detection data is located and see what the values are.
The BIOS code should tell us where the data bytes are for comparison, if that data is XOR'd as well, although I doubt it. The reason the password was XOR'd had to be for security purposes. If somebody could just dump the contents of the DS1287, and the password was there, it would be simple to defeat, but this way, one is required to dump both the DS1287 and the BIOS and do the reverse of the XOR operation to get the password, and they would have to be skilled in assembly coding to find the code that told you how to do it, or even know in the first place that they did something like that in the first place. It just makes it much more difficult to defeat the password encryption. There is no need to do that, it would seem, to the other data in the CMOS. But I admit it is possible.
Until the next report. *grin*
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Wow, Phil!
> VERY good information!!
>
> One of the backdoor's listed is to enter the date in YYMMDD format. The problem with this is I'm sure it is the YYMMDD relative to the chip. Because you have no idea what the RTC thinks the date is, it is hit or miss. I cannot remember what the default date is on the Grid when the date/time information has been lost. I think it's December 1, 1980. HHmmm January 1, 1980 seems to make more sense.
> Anyway, execellent work Phil!
>
> Side question: I would really like to know *how* your contact was able to do this. I want to learn.
> My guess is something similar is going on with the Conner hard drive detection (XOR of some value) as well as the EPROM checksum.
>
> Thank you very much!
> -Shawn
>
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 20:00:18 -0000
From: "ansoneinstein@..."
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
Sorry about my response time.
When I turn the Grid on, I hear the hdd spin up, followed by one click (like the head is going to it's default position) and then it makes noise as if it were trying to read data for just a few seconds.
During this time, the hdd light is on, and the screen is blank.
Then after about 20 sec, the screen displays the bios info, and it hangs...
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@...> wrote:
>
> Anson:
>
> Do you hear the HDD startup, whir and rattle?
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 22:02:58 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Success!!! The password problem is solved!
Hey, guys! IT WORKED!!
Here are the changes again to apply to the BIOS:
----------------------------------------------
In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:
offset from to
0x0CC2 0xE8 0x90
0x0CC3 0xB6 0x90
0x0CC4 0x66 0x90
0x0CC8 0xE8 0x90
0x0CC9 0x6F 0x90
0x0CCA 0x65 0x90
0x0CCB 0x73 0xEB
Be sure to alter a few of of the very first bytes of the code for each chip to get the checksums back to where they belong, then burn the new EPROMS.
----------------------------------------------
What this does is totally bypass the password routine, as if you had successfully answered the question. When I placed these modified chips into the computer and booted up, I again get the same question asking for the password..........for about a second, and then it goes on as if I had answered it correctly and asks for the time and date. Once those are entered, it launches the C: prompt. I had total access to the computer at that point. Now, I am not sure I will be completely out of the woods yet. I am not sure of the data on the new 1287 chip, one reason being I ran Brutmans' HDLOOK program and it gave me data on TWO HD. (I only have one), so I think I need to get a program that will read the registers in the 1287 and see if maybe I can dump them and/or modify them as needed. But for now, it seems that it should work just fine. The computer worked completely normal for me overall.
So if any of you have the password problem with using a new 1287 or 1287A in a 1520 computer, (since we can't use the 12887 chips in a 16 bit machine, this solution will get you past the password problem.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 14:16:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
WOW!! Congratulations! Great work, Phil!
hdlook returns two hard drives. That's normal. There is a specific reason for that. Mike told me the reason, but I can't remember.
Mike: L'il help here? Thanks. :-)
-Shawn
----- Original Message ----
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 5:02:58 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
Hey, guys! IT WORKED!!
Here are the changes again to apply to the BIOS:
----------------------------------------------
In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:
offset from to
0x0CC2 0xE8 0x90
0x0CC3 0xB6 0x90
0x0CC4 0x66 0x90
0x0CC8 0xE8 0x90
0x0CC9 0x6F 0x90
0x0CCA 0x65 0x90
0x0CCB 0x73 0xEB
Be sure to alter a few of of the very first bytes of the code for each chip to get the checksums back to where they belong, then burn the new EPROMS.
----------------------------------------------
What this does is totally bypass the password routine, as if you had successfully answered the question. When I placed these modified chips into the computer and booted up, I again get the same question asking for the password..........for about a second, and then it goes on as if I had answered it correctly and asks for the time and date. Once those are entered, it launches the C: prompt. I had total access to the computer at that point. Now, I am not sure I will be completely out of the woods yet. I am not sure of the data on the new 1287 chip, one reason being I ran Brutmans' HDLOOK program and it gave me data on TWO HD. (I only have one), so I think I need to get a program that will read the registers in the 1287 and see if maybe I can dump them and/or modify them as needed. But for now, it seems that it should work just fine. The computer worked completely normal for me overall.
So if any of you have the password problem with using a new 1287 or 1287A in a 1520 computer, (since we can't use the 12887 chips in a 16 bit machine, this solution will get you past the password problem.
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:15:59 -0600
From: Michael Brutman
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
I'm actually lurking in the background ... I've not forsaken you guys. :-)
The first set of output from hdlook is the bytes from the CMOS area.
The CMOS has room for two drives. Type zero is 'no drive', while
anything else indicates a drive is present.
On my 386-40 with one drive the CMOS data shows drive type 1 for the
first type, and drive type 0 for the second type. After that it dumps
the data for the two drives that it finds in memory. That memory is
usually ROM, but if you have an aftermarket controller it can be in
RAM. The code always dumps both entries, even though one might be bogus
- just ignore it.
I posted a new version of hdlook.zip at
http://www.brutman.com/hdlook.zip . This version is the same, but it
has source code in it.
Please catch me up on the 1287 issue .. is it just a combined CMOS/clock
chip? If so, it should be readily programmable by generic CMOS
utilities for AT class machines. If my code is reading it's contents it
can't be too bad.
Mike
Shawnerz wrote:
> WOW!! Congratulations! Great work, Phil!
>
> hdlook returns two hard drives. That's normal. There is a specific reason for that. Mike told me the reason, but I can't remember.
>
> Mike: L'il help here? Thanks. :-)
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 5:02:58 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
>
> Hey, guys! IT WORKED!!
>
> Here are the changes again to apply to the BIOS:
> ----------------------------------------------
> In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:
>
> offset from to
> 0x0CC2 0xE8 0x90
> 0x0CC3 0xB6 0x90
> 0x0CC4 0x66 0x90
>
> 0x0CC8 0xE8 0x90
> 0x0CC9 0x6F 0x90
> 0x0CCA 0x65 0x90
>
> 0x0CCB 0x73 0xEB
>
> Be sure to alter a few of of the very first bytes of the code for each chip to get the checksums back to where they belong, then burn the new EPROMS.
> ----------------------------------------------
> What this does is totally bypass the password routine, as if you had successfully answered the question. When I placed these modified chips into the computer and booted up, I again get the same question asking for the password..........for about a second, and then it goes on as if I had answered it correctly and asks for the time and date. Once those are entered, it launches the C: prompt. I had total access to the computer at that point. Now, I am not sure I will be completely out of the woods yet. I am not sure of the data on the new 1287 chip, one reason being I ran Brutmans' HDLOOK program and it gave me data on TWO HD. (I only have one), so I think I need to get a program that will read the registers in the 1287 and see if maybe I can dump them and/or modify them as needed. But for now, it seems that it should work just fine. The computer worked completely normal for me overall.
>
> So if any of you have the password problem with using a new 1287 or 1287A in a 1520 computer, (since we can't use the 12887 chips in a 16 bit machine, this solution will get you past the password problem.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:55:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
Mike,
>Please catch me up on the 1287 issue .. is it just a combined CMOS/clock
>chip? If so, it should be readily programmable by generic CMOS
>utilities for AT class machines.
This might be possible, but the Grid BIOS won't allow the computer to boot unless the correct password is entered. I'm not 100% sure on this, but the appearance is, if the internal (internal to the 1287) battery dies, the 1287 goes to some weird unitilialzed state. When the Grid BIOS encounters this, it prompts for a password. The BIOS will not allow the computer to boot until the proper password is entered.
We're not sure why this is. Perhaps it was meant as a security feature. Perhaps it was a "fall through" in a case statement.
"Oh, the battery will never die in these things...."
Thanks for the response.
-Shawn
----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Brutman <mbbrutman@...>
To: Shawnerz <shawnerz@...>
Cc: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 7:15:59 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
I'm actually lurking in the background ... I've not forsaken you guys. :-)
The first set of output from hdlook is the bytes from the CMOS area.
The CMOS has room for two drives. Type zero is 'no drive', while
anything else indicates a drive is present.
On my 386-40 with one drive the CMOS data shows drive type 1 for the
first type, and drive type 0 for the second type. After that it dumps
the data for the two drives that it finds in memory. That memory is
usually ROM, but if you have an aftermarket controller it can be in
RAM. The code always dumps both entries, even though one might be bogus
- just ignore it.
I posted a new version of hdlook.zip at
http://www.brutman.com/hdlook.zip . This version is the same, but it
has source code in it.
Please catch me up on the 1287 issue .. is it just a combined CMOS/clock
chip? If so, it should be readily programmable by generic CMOS
utilities for AT class machines. If my code is reading it's contents it
can't be too bad.
Mike
Shawnerz wrote:
> WOW!! Congratulations! Great work, Phil!
>
> hdlook returns two hard drives. That's normal. There is a specific reason for that. Mike told me the reason, but I can't remember.
>
> Mike: L'il help here? Thanks. :-)
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@...m
> Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 5:02:58 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
>
> Hey, guys! IT WORKED!!
>
> Here are the changes again to apply to the BIOS:
> ----------------------------------------------
> In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:
>
> offset from to
> 0x0CC2 0xE8 0x90
> 0x0CC3 0xB6 0x90
> 0x0CC4 0x66 0x90
>
> 0x0CC8 0xE8 0x90
> 0x0CC9 0x6F 0x90
> 0x0CCA 0x65 0x90
>
> 0x0CCB 0x73 0xEB
>
> Be sure to alter a few of of the very first bytes of the code for each chip to get the checksums back to where they belong, then burn the new EPROMS.
> ----------------------------------------------
> What this does is totally bypass the password routine, as if you had successfully answered the question. When I placed these modified chips into the computer and booted up, I again get the same question asking for the password..........for about a second, and then it goes on as if I had answered it correctly and asks for the time and date. Once those are entered, it launches the C: prompt. I had total access to the computer at that point. Now, I am not sure I will be completely out of the woods yet. I am not sure of the data on the new 1287 chip, one reason being I ran Brutmans' HDLOOK program and it gave me data on TWO HD. (I only have one), so I think I need to get a program that will read the registers in the 1287 and see if maybe I can dump them and/or modify them as needed. But for now, it seems that it should work just fine. The computer worked completely normal for me overall.
>
> So if any of you have the password problem with using a new 1287 or 1287A in a 1520 computer, (since we can't use the 12887 chips in a 16 bit machine, this solution will get you past the password problem.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:30:55 -0600
From: Michael Brutman
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
Those clock chips were supposed to have a shelf life of 10 years, so
it's possible that somebody assumed they would always work. Most
machines have the courtesy to report a CMOS error when the battery dies,
so this makes the Grid truly a non-user friendly oddball. As if you guys
didn't have enough problems with it already .. reminds me of the poor,
abused PCjr users that I hang out with ...
So where are you at the moment? You have a work around for booting the
machine .. do you just need someway to setup the new CMOS chip? The CMOS
areas are pretty well defined, but there is also an area for the
password in there somewhere that might be goofy. And I'm not sure if
Grid followed the normal conventions for the CMOS areas. But I assume
that there are enough working machines out there that we can dump the
CMOS from a working one and reverse engineer the contents before you all
lose your batteries ..
Mike
Shawnerz wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> >Please catch me up on the 1287 issue .. is it just a combined CMOS/clock
> >chip? If so, it should be readily programmable by generic CMOS
> >utilities for AT class machines.
>
> This might be possible, but the Grid BIOS won't allow the computer to
> boot unless the correct password is entered. I'm not 100% sure on
> this, but the appearance is, if the internal (internal to the 1287)
> battery dies, the 1287 goes to some weird unitilialzed state. When the
> Grid BIOS encounters this, it prompts for a password. The BIOS will
> not allow the computer to boot until the proper password is entered.
> We're not sure why this is. Perhaps it was meant as a security
> feature. Perhaps it was a "fall through" in a case statement.
> "Oh, the battery will never die in these things...."
>
> Thanks for the response.
> -Shawn
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Michael Brutman <mbbrutman@... <mailto:mbbrutman%40yahoo.com>>
> To: Shawnerz <shawnerz@... <mailto:shawnerz%40yahoo.com>>
> Cc: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 7:15:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
>
> I'm actually lurking in the background ... I've not forsaken you guys. :-)
>
> The first set of output from hdlook is the bytes from the CMOS area.
> The CMOS has room for two drives. Type zero is 'no drive', while
> anything else indicates a drive is present.
>
> On my 386-40 with one drive the CMOS data shows drive type 1 for the
> first type, and drive type 0 for the second type. After that it dumps
> the data for the two drives that it finds in memory. That memory is
> usually ROM, but if you have an aftermarket controller it can be in
> RAM. The code always dumps both entries, even though one might be bogus
> - just ignore it.
>
> I posted a new version of hdlook.zip at
> http://www.brutman.com/hdlook.zip <http://www.brutman.com/hdlook.zip>
> . This version is the same, but it
> has source code in it.
>
> Please catch me up on the 1287 issue .. is it just a combined CMOS/clock
> chip? If so, it should be readily programmable by generic CMOS
> utilities for AT class machines. If my code is reading it's contents it
> can't be too bad.
>
> Mike
>
> Shawnerz wrote:
> > WOW!! Congratulations! Great work, Phil!
> >
> > hdlook returns two hard drives. That's normal. There is a specific
> reason for that. Mike told me the reason, but I can't remember.
> >
> > Mike: L'il help here? Thanks. :-)
> > -Shawn
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@... <mailto:Jeriddian%40msn.com>>
> > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 5:02:58 PM
> > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
> >
> > Hey, guys! IT WORKED!!
> >
> > Here are the changes again to apply to the BIOS:
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:
> >
> > offset from to
> > 0x0CC2 0xE8 0x90
> > 0x0CC3 0xB6 0x90
> > 0x0CC4 0x66 0x90
> >
> > 0x0CC8 0xE8 0x90
> > 0x0CC9 0x6F 0x90
> > 0x0CCA 0x65 0x90
> >
> > 0x0CCB 0x73 0xEB
> >
> > Be sure to alter a few of of the very first bytes of the code for
> each chip to get the checksums back to where they belong, then burn
> the new EPROMS.
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > What this does is totally bypass the password routine, as if you had
> successfully answered the question. When I placed these modified chips
> into the computer and booted up, I again get the same question asking
> for the password..........for about a second, and then it goes on as
> if I had answered it correctly and asks for the time and date. Once
> those are entered, it launches the C: prompt. I had total access to
> the computer at that point. Now, I am not sure I will be completely
> out of the woods yet. I am not sure of the data on the new 1287 chip,
> one reason being I ran Brutmans' HDLOOK program and it gave me data on
> TWO HD. (I only have one), so I think I need to get a program that
> will read the registers in the 1287 and see if maybe I can dump them
> and/or modify them as needed. But for now, it seems that it should
> work just fine. The computer worked completely normal for me overall.
> >
> > So if any of you have the password problem with using a new 1287 or
> 1287A in a 1520 computer, (since we can't use the 12887 chips in a 16
> bit machine, this solution will get you past the password problem.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo>! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo>! Groups Links
>
>
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 03:38:34 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Success!!! The password problem is solved!
Hi, Mike,
I'll try and go through the password issue. Forgive me if I go over obvious stuff. In the past, when we came up against a dead 1287 in a 1520, the options were limited. The 1287's are no longer made by Dallas Semiconductor. Their replacement, the 12887 and 12887A could not used as they have twice the memory and their registers are therefore addressed diffrerently. Suffice it to say that they cannot be used on 16 bit machines, only 32 bit machines, which is why they will work fine on 1530's that have a dead 1287 in them. I have done that in one of my my 1530 machines.
So, in the 1520, the only option is to replace the dead 1287 with another 1287 or 1287A. The problem that then came up was that when that was done, the computer recognized there was a different RTC chip (probably because the password was different), and in order to boot up required the password. Now we've always assumed this to be a BIOS password, but it never made sense as there is no BIOS program to go into on a GRiD. But in any case, the computer asked for this password which nobody knew. If you failed the password attempt, the computer rebooted and went right back to the same password question, adn you ended up with an endless loop and an unbootable computer. The solution we had come up with before was to use the old 1287 chip by doing surgery on it and affixing an external battery as per Shawn's file in the file section. By using the same chip and awaking the registyers with a new battery, the computer had no problem with it and never asked the password.
You are right in the the 1287 is a combined CMOS/clock, and stores data on the hard drive, possibly the floppy drive, and a couple of other items I can't remember, as well at time and day. That's why the computer will refuse to see the hard drive when there's a dead RTC, becasue it can't get the information on the type of hard drive that's there. I once saw a layout of all the information the 1287 RTC stores, but I can't find it. I really would like to get that map again.
I knew that if we could access the actual code of the BIOS, we could alter it to bypass the password problem, which is what I did with the help of a programmer who I got to look at the code and figure it out for me. I know a little assembly language, but not enough to do this. By following the steps I outlined, the whole password question is bypassed and the code automatically steps you through as if you answered the password question successfully. The rest of the code operates exactly the same without problems. This allows people with 1520's to simply replace their dead 1287 with a fresh 1287 or 1287A. (You can get them if you know where to look, and they're not any more expensive than the 12887's really.) All they have to do is burn two BIOS EPROM's with the altered code as I have listed it and use them in the computer with the new 1287 or 1287A.
However, the computer will continue to ask for a password with that new chip in it, which will requires us to keep the altered BIOS EPROM's in it. What could resolve this further is to find out what exactly is the password in the RTC and then try putting the original chips back into the computer and then answering the password question correctly that way. It wouldn't hurt just to keep the altered BIOS chips in. The computer will work the same either way, but the boot up would be a little weird, that's all.
Mike, I've been wanting to ask you if you could come up with a small program that will dump out the contents of the 1287 registers, which will include the password (which is modified BTW). The password is eight characters long or less. It will appear as gibberish because when it is entered by the computer, the BIOS first takes the entered password and XOR's it with a data word in the BIOS code made up of nonsense symbols, then stores that result in the 1287. That's how it gets goofy (I'm sure it's a security measure. If you look back at my previous thread, it's all detailed out there.) In order to get the password, we have to take what is stored in the 1287 registers (and I understand it starts at address 34h for eight bytes), do a backwards XOR with the data word in the BIOS, and this should give us the actual password.
Also, I would be interested in what would be required to set up the CMOS registers as you suggested. I think GRiD did not vary from the normal conventions of its use. If you know the defined setup of the CMOS chip, that would be great to get a program that will help us program it as we need it. I do have a 1530 with a surgerized 1287 RTC that we can dump the contents from. I'm sure Shawn or someone has a 1520 with that adjustment. Would you be interested in that, Mike? Thanks.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Michael Brutman <mbbrutman@...> wrote:
>
>
> Those clock chips were supposed to have a shelf life of 10 years, so
> it's possible that somebody assumed they would always work. Most
> machines have the courtesy to report a CMOS error when the battery dies,
> so this makes the Grid truly a non-user friendly oddball. As if you guys
> didn't have enough problems with it already .. reminds me of the poor,
> abused PCjr users that I hang out with ...
>
> So where are you at the moment? You have a work around for booting the
> machine .. do you just need someway to setup the new CMOS chip? The CMOS
> areas are pretty well defined, but there is also an area for the
> password in there somewhere that might be goofy. And I'm not sure if
> Grid followed the normal conventions for the CMOS areas. But I assume
> that there are enough working machines out there that we can dump the
> CMOS from a working one and reverse engineer the contents before you all
> lose your batteries ..
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Shawnerz wrote:
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > >Please catch me up on the 1287 issue .. is it just a combined CMOS/clock
> > >chip? If so, it should be readily programmable by generic CMOS
> > >utilities for AT class machines.
> >
> > This might be possible, but the Grid BIOS won't allow the computer to
> > boot unless the correct password is entered. I'm not 100% sure on
> > this, but the appearance is, if the internal (internal to the 1287)
> > battery dies, the 1287 goes to some weird unitilialzed state. When the
> > Grid BIOS encounters this, it prompts for a password. The BIOS will
> > not allow the computer to boot until the proper password is entered.
> > We're not sure why this is. Perhaps it was meant as a security
> > feature. Perhaps it was a "fall through" in a case statement.
> > "Oh, the battery will never die in these things...."
> >
> > Thanks for the response.
> > -Shawn
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Michael Brutman <mbbrutman@... <mailto:mbbrutman%40yahoo.com>>
> > To: Shawnerz <shawnerz@... <mailto:shawnerz%40yahoo.com>>
> > Cc: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 7:15:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
> >
> > I'm actually lurking in the background ... I've not forsaken you guys. :-)
> >
> > The first set of output from hdlook is the bytes from the CMOS area.
> > The CMOS has room for two drives. Type zero is 'no drive', while
> > anything else indicates a drive is present.
> >
> > On my 386-40 with one drive the CMOS data shows drive type 1 for the
> > first type, and drive type 0 for the second type. After that it dumps
> > the data for the two drives that it finds in memory. That memory is
> > usually ROM, but if you have an aftermarket controller it can be in
> > RAM. The code always dumps both entries, even though one might be bogus
> > - just ignore it.
> >
> > I posted a new version of hdlook.zip at
> > http://www.brutman.com/hdlook.zip <http://www.brutman.com/hdlook.zip>
> > . This version is the same, but it
> > has source code in it.
> >
> > Please catch me up on the 1287 issue .. is it just a combined CMOS/clock
> > chip? If so, it should be readily programmable by generic CMOS
> > utilities for AT class machines. If my code is reading it's contents it
> > can't be too bad.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Shawnerz wrote:
> > > WOW!! Congratulations! Great work, Phil!
> > >
> > > hdlook returns two hard drives. That's normal. There is a specific
> > reason for that. Mike told me the reason, but I can't remember.
> > >
> > > Mike: L'il help here? Thanks. :-)
> > > -Shawn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@... <mailto:Jeriddian%40msn.com>>
> > > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 5:02:58 PM
> > > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
> > >
> > > Hey, guys! IT WORKED!!
> > >
> > > Here are the changes again to apply to the BIOS:
> > > ----------------------------------------------
> > > In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:
> > >
> > > offset from to
> > > 0x0CC2 0xE8 0x90
> > > 0x0CC3 0xB6 0x90
> > > 0x0CC4 0x66 0x90
> > >
> > > 0x0CC8 0xE8 0x90
> > > 0x0CC9 0x6F 0x90
> > > 0x0CCA 0x65 0x90
> > >
> > > 0x0CCB 0x73 0xEB
> > >
> > > Be sure to alter a few of of the very first bytes of the code for
> > each chip to get the checksums back to where they belong, then burn
> > the new EPROMS.
> > > ----------------------------------------------
> > > What this does is totally bypass the password routine, as if you had
> > successfully answered the question. When I placed these modified chips
> > into the computer and booted up, I again get the same question asking
> > for the password..........for about a second, and then it goes on as
> > if I had answered it correctly and asks for the time and date. Once
> > those are entered, it launches the C: prompt. I had total access to
> > the computer at that point. Now, I am not sure I will be completely
> > out of the woods yet. I am not sure of the data on the new 1287 chip,
> > one reason being I ran Brutmans' HDLOOK program and it gave me data on
> > TWO HD. (I only have one), so I think I need to get a program that
> > will read the registers in the 1287 and see if maybe I can dump them
> > and/or modify them as needed. But for now, it seems that it should
> > work just fine. The computer worked completely normal for me overall.
> > >
> > > So if any of you have the password problem with using a new 1287 or
> > 1287A in a 1520 computer, (since we can't use the 12887 chips in a 16
> > bit machine, this solution will get you past the password problem.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo>! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo>! Groups Links
> >
> >
>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 08:23:27 -0600
From: Michael Brutman
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Success!!! The password problem is solved!
I'm confused. If the Dallas 1287 dies, the contents of the CMOS
packaged with the battery should be gone too. Cracking open the 1287
and replacing the batter should not revive the contents of the CMOS.
When you were looking at the BIOS to get around the password prompt, did
you analyze the code before that point to see what it was looking for in
the CMOS? Do you know the location of the XOR mask in BIOS that is
being used to 'encrypt' the password?
I can dump the raw contents of the 1287 .. HDlook is doing some of that
already. I'll write a different piece of code to dump the whole thing.
I might not even need to - there are CMOS editors out there already that
might do the job. The generic CMOS editors also generally know where
the valid data fields are. If they can handle all of the DS1287 then we
should probably just use one of them. (I'll read the data sheet on the
DS1287 to make sure that it doesn't have anything weird that a normal
CMOS doesn't have.)
Mike
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:39:16 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Success!!! The password problem is solved!
Hi, Mike,
You are correct. I'm sorry if I didn't explain it well enough. The contents of the 1287 do go away when the battery is dead. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I do know that the information on the DS1287 about the hard drive and other parameters is used to successfully boot up the computer.
Now, one can get past the 1287 in some cases by booting off of the floppy disk, although this is inconsistent to the best of my knowledge. Some people have reported they could get past the dead 1287 this way and others said they couldn't. I have seen both instances in my experience. But if the computer does boot off the floppy, you cannot see the hard drive, because the BIOS won't connect it up due to the 1287 being dead. Why exactly, I don't know.
My best guess is that the information for the type of hard drive being used for that particular unit is stored in the 1287, even though it's in the BIOS as well. The computer looks for it on boot up to confirm it or something like that before it sees the HDD. On a new 1287, where that information is not there, the code may have some sort of subroutine which will recheck the presence of the hard drive and then rewrite the information back into the 1287, and then recheck the chip to make sure it's okay before connecting the HDD to BIOS and booting up. In fact I don't doubt the computer might check and completely rewrite the contents of the 1287 each time it boots up. But without sombody completely reverse engineering the code to find out what each piece of it does, I just don't know. Maybe the BIOS has the password hardwired into it. I've never tried original BIOS chips from another 1520 to see if those would boot another 1520. That is something to consider.
What I can tell you is that the password is the sticking point. On a dead 1287, the stored XOR'd version of it is gone. I believe the computer checks that password in the stored contents of the 1287 every time it boots, but against what other stored information I don't know. Certainly, it can't be the HDD. Maybe it checks the contents against other registers in the 1287 or a hardwired code in teh BIOS. I don't know. It may be each 1287 had a unique hardwired identifier as a security precaution of some sort. I have heard of that from other programmers, that the 1287 was used as a security precaution in computers, which would certainly fit the GRiD since it was promarily used for military and industrial uses.
All I know is that the computer can recognize each chip differently and knows the one that belongs to it alone. I can take the new 1287 chip out of the computer I just modifed and stick the old one back in with a new externalized battery and with the original BIOS chips, and it will boot up without a problem, never asking for the BIOS password. I have done that before too.
When I contacted the programmer who I had him help me with this, and he analyzed the code and came up with the following. (I'm explaining what happens as best I can, but I don't fully understand it all myself.):
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The computer checks the password and finds it different or wrong. It then outputs to the screen asking for the user to input the correct password. The subroutines asking the for the BIOS passsword appear to be at the following addresses in the BIOS code:
seg000:0CC2 call sub_737B
seg000:0CC5 call sub_71D2
seg000:0CC8 call sub_723A
seg000:0CCB jnb short loc_CE3
seg000:0CCD call sub_7291
seg000:0CD0 jnb short loc_CE3
seg000:0CD2 call loc_72D8
seg000:0CD5 mov ds, word ptr cs:0C5E6h
seg000:0CDA mov ds:word_72, 1234h
seg000:0CE0 jmp loc_A6
Notes: (1) The subroutine called for at 000:0CC2 (also cs:0CC2 BTW) calls for the routine at address cs:737B to input the password from the keyboard.
(2) The subroutine called for at cs:0CC5 is a subroutine that does something with preparing to compare the entered password with what is stored in the computer. (In and of itself it isn't important.)
(3) The subroutine called for at 0CC8 compares the entered string from the keyboard to the stored password and determines if it is valid.
(4) If the password is valid, the carry flag will be cleared. The instruction at 0CCB is a conditional jump. If the carry flag is NOT cleared (Password failed), then the computer issues the string to the keyboard, "Invalid password; Press any key". Once a keystroke is entered, the computer then jumps to the instruction at location 0CE3 (cs:0CE3), which executes a reboot, which then creates the endless loop problem.
(5) The next instruction at cs:0CCD apparently calls for the the subroutine that accesses the date from the real time clock and processes it in some manner (I haven't gotten an explanation of that subroutine, and I don't know enough about assembly to parse that out without really pulling all my books out and taking the time to do it, which I don't have right now., but it isn't important for the purpose at hand.)
(6) The instruction at cs:0CD0 again calls for a conditional jump. (I'm not sure why but it probably has nothing to do with the BIOS password, and therefore is not that important to this discussion. It should not be a problem here.)
(7) (If both of these conditional jumps are satisfied, the reading of code continues to the next instruction at cs:0CD2 which sets the cursor position, then calls for movement of some data from the BIOS into certain registers and then at cs:0CE0, calls for the execution of the subroutine at location 00A6 (cs:00A6), which seems to be the reading in of data from the real time clock into the processors and using it. The computer should then continue to boot up.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The final routine for comparison of the entered password with what is stored is as follows from my source: (These are his words)
I have found out that:
- the password can be up to 8 bytes.
- Is stored at cs:F0FC in the eeprom (xor'd)
? if the password doesn't match, there is a backdoor.
? the backdoor is the current date in YYMMDD form
I am not exactly sure about the last two. They might work.
(BTW, I did try them. They didn't work. Also address F0FCh does not exist, but may simply be a mask for 70FCh, which is what we are thinking.)
The call at 0CC8 checks the password you entered.
00000CC8 E86F65 call 00000723Ah
0000723A 50 push ax
0000723B 51 push cx
0000723C 52 push dx
0000723D 56 push si
0000723E 57 push di
0000723F 1E push ds
00007240 06 push es
00007241 FC cld
00007242 B97000 mov cx,0070h
00007245 8EC1 mov es,cx
00007247 33FF xor di,di
00007249 8ED9 mov ds,cx
0000724B BE0800 mov si,0008h
0000724E E8CFFF call 000007220h
; create password from user entered and saved at cs:F0FCh (70FCh)
00007220 53 push bx
00007221 51 push cx
00007222 BBFCF0 mov bx,0F0FCh ; <------ 70FCh
00007225 B90800 mov cx,0008h
00007228 2E8A07 mov al,cs:[bx]
0000722B 268A25 mov ah,es:[di]
0000722E 32C4 xor al,ah
00007230 8804 mov [si],al
00007232 47 inc di
00007233 46 inc si
00007234 43 inc bx
00007235 E2F1 loop 000007228h
00007237 59 pop cx
00007238 5B pop bx
00007239 C3 ret
00007251 BF1000 mov di,0010h
00007254 8CC0 mov ax,es
00007256 8ED8 mov ds,ax
00007258 B034 mov al,34h
0000725A 8AE0 mov ah,al
0000725C B90800 mov cx,0008h
0000725F E800D5 call 000004762h
00004762 52 push dx
00004763 BA7000 mov dx,0070h
00004766 E81F00 call 000004788h
00004788 C3 ret
00004769 FA cli
0000476A EE out dx,al
0000476B 42 inc dx
0000476C EB00 jmp 00000476Eh
0000476E EB00 jmp 000004770h
00004770 EC in al,dx
00004771 5A pop dx
00004772 C3 ret
00007262 AA stosb
00007263 FEC4 inc ah
00007265 8AC4 mov al,ah
00007267 E2F6 loop 00000725Fh
00007269 BF1000 mov di,0010h
0000726C BE0800 mov si,0008h
0000726F E87701 call 0000073E9h ; compare string
000073E9 B90800 mov cx,0008h
000073EC F3A6 repe cmpsb
000073EE 7403 jz 0000073F3h
000073F0 F9 stc
000073F1 EB01 jmp 0000073F4h
000073F3 F8 clc
000073F4 C3 ret
00007272 07 pop es
00007273 1F pop ds
00007274 5F pop di
00007275 5E pop si
00007276 5A pop dx
00007277 59 pop cx
00007278 58 pop ax
00007279 C3 ret
; Here the carry flag will be clear if the password was
; entered correctly. (A correct password)
This is the code that the BIOS uses to 'create' a password check
from the (max) 8 bytes you entered. If the value at 70FCh is
000070FC db 5Bh, 44h, 5Eh, 68h, 7Dh, 5Fh, 7Ch, 4Dh (....[D^h}_|M....)
Then reverse the process above and you should be able to get
the password needed.
Also, it looks like the password is stored in the CMOS chip
at offset 34h, read 8 times. If you can read in this register
8 times, viewing what the result it, this will tell you what
the password is, xor'ed using the code above.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the above is the programmer's explanation, except where I spoke in parentheses. I hope that gives you more insight into the situation. It is confusing to me as well exactly what is going on. But the whole point to the alteration of the code is simply to bypass the actual code that tested for the password and simply execute an automatic jump at the test point in the code as if the password entry was successful, thus continuing on to boot up the computer, without altering any of the other code in the BIOS.
Hope that helps, Mike
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Michael Brutman <mbbrutman@...> wrote:
>
>
> I'm confused. If the Dallas 1287 dies, the contents of the CMOS
> packaged with the battery should be gone too. Cracking open the 1287
> and replacing the batter should not revive the contents of the CMOS.
>
> When you were looking at the BIOS to get around the password prompt, did
> you analyze the code before that point to see what it was looking for in
> the CMOS? Do you know the location of the XOR mask in BIOS that is
> being used to 'encrypt' the password?
>
> I can dump the raw contents of the 1287 .. HDlook is doing some of that
> already. I'll write a different piece of code to dump the whole thing.
> I might not even need to - there are CMOS editors out there already that
> might do the job. The generic CMOS editors also generally know where
> the valid data fields are. If they can handle all of the DS1287 then we
> should probably just use one of them. (I'll read the data sheet on the
> DS1287 to make sure that it doesn't have anything weird that a normal
> CMOS doesn't have.)
>
>
> Mike
>
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:20:32 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: been away for a while
been away for a while
whats the latest on a replacement dallas clock chip
none of my grids i have tried will boot now
several 1520 grids and a 1755
is there a way to re power the current chip
thought i saw a mod by some one
dave wd8cyv in wv usa
wd8cyv At yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 21:49:54 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: been away for a while
Hi, Dave,
Funny you should mention this, since I just managed to come up with an answer not too long ago.
First, do the Grid 1755's still use a Dallas RTC chip? That's interesting. If so, and since that is a 386 machine, replacing it with a regular 12887A replacement which is what is recommended by Dallas Semiconductor these days, will work just fine. I've done that in my 1530's and it works well.
The 1520's are a whole different problem. These are 16 bit machines. Therefore the 12887's will NOT work in them as they have twice the registers of the 1287, and are addressed differently. A 16 bit machine canot see it properly as it will address the wrong registers in a chip meant for a 32 bit machine.
You would have to do one of two things:
First, as you had asked, there is a mod for repowering your original 1287 chip. Shawn has described in a file in the files section. It involves desoldering the chip off of the board (I wouldn't try this with the chip still on the board), then using a dremel tool to drill through the epoxy casing to the two pins connected to the old battery within it. You would detach at least one pin from the battery, then solder wires to both pins and connect them to an external battery. It's a lot of work, but it is one solution. I and a few others here have successfully done this in some of our machines. The specifics are in Shawn's file in the files section.
If putting an external battery is not what you want to do, and since the 12887 will NOT work in a 1520, you must replace it with a 1287 or 1287A (You can still get them). However, the password is not the same on the new chip, and the computer recognizes that when you try to boot up. When it sees that the password is different, the computer goes into a routine just after POST asking you for the password. You will get locked into an interminable loop trying to input a password you do not know (and we have tried all the backdoors. None that we have tried have worked.), and the computer justs locks into rebooting the machine and never finishing the boot process. You probably already have run into this.
The only option here is to alter the BIOS code. It is the same process by which we alter the BIOS code for accepting different hard drives than originally programmed into the BIOS, which Shawn and I have done, and then burning new EPROM BIOS chips with the altered code. Both Shawn and I have done this with several different Conner hard drives, and it does work.
You would have to to get two EPROM chips (27C128), and an EPROM programming unit of some sort (There are several on the market). An EPROM eraser would also be recommended. If it doesn't come with the programming hardware unit, some sort of software hex editor will be required (I recommend WinHex.) If you have these tools available, you have to make the following changes to the BIOS code:
----------------------------------------------
In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:
offset........ from.......... to
0x0CC2........ 0xE8.......... 0x90
0x0CC3........ 0xB6.......... 0x90
0x0CC4........ 0x66.......... 0x90
0x0CC8........ 0xE8.......... 0x90
0x0CC9........ 0x6F.......... 0x90
0x0CCA........ 0x65.......... 0x90
0x0CCB........ 0x73.......... 0xEB
Be sure to alter a few of the very first bytes of the code for each chip to get the checksums back to where they belong, then burn the new EPROMS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
This will allow you to use a new 1287 in a 1520 computer by getting you past the password question without altering any other code in the BIOS. It will then boot up. It seemes to work on the 1520 I've tried it on. I have successfully done this.
These are your only options we have to offer so far. I am working on some other options to make the programming process a little easier, although it involves my learning assmebly again, which is going to be slow going.
Hope that helps.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
> been away for a while
>
> whats the latest on a replacement dallas clock chip
> none of my grids i have tried will boot now
>
>
> several 1520 grids and a 1755
>
> is there a way to re power the current chip
> thought i saw a mod by some one
>
> dave wd8cyv in wv usa
> wd8cyv At yahoo.com
>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:26:42 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: Re: been away for a while
not sure about the 1755 i think it runs but not fired it up of late
but the 1520 i would like to get running
will the repowerby by hooking new battery of the ori dallas chip have any problem
with the password
i never used a pass word in any of the ones i had running
always felt it would just keep me out and the snoopers would know a work around
or if i supplied chips can you burn a set
i have some of the oem Conner drives that are big
but will not run in mine because it is limited to 20 or 40 i forget
i would like to use mine to run rtty or baycom packet
radio it ran packet great
and would love to find sipps to max out the memory
as i know the tricks to make it run win 3.1 but it works better with more memory
dave
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:42:57 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: what is file name
First, as you had asked, there is a mod for repowering your original 1287 chip.
Shawn has described in a file in the files section.
what is the file name or a link i am having trouble finding it
if i know its name it may be stored in one of my computers
as i never erase a hard drive
dave
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:51:28 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: been away for a while
Hi, Dave,
1) if you repower the original 1287 with an external battery, then there will be no password problem. As I noted, I have done that on a 1520 I have, and having the original chip in there somehow bypasses the password problem. I don't know why. when you lose power to the chip due to the battery dying, you should lose all the information in the registers, including the password that is stored there. But that doesn't seem to be a problem if you use the original 1287. From what I understood, the password (an XOR'd version of it) is stored on the 1287, so if you cut the power to the chip, you should lose it, making the computer ask you for the password when you boot up. But that doesn't happen if you repower the original chip. This is what makes me think that there is some type of individual identifier on each chip that teh computer can recogniz, but I don't knwo what. But in any case, the password issue is NOT a problem if you repower the original 1287 chip.
2) I can burn a set of chips for you. Are you able to get me a copy of the BIOS file?
3) Which OEM Conner drives do you have? The GRID is programmed only to practically take the CP3024, CP3044, CP344, and CP3104. If you have another Conner drive, I may be able to program that into the BIOS as well to let the computer accept it, but only certain Conner will be taken by this computer. In any case, it can't be over 512 Mb.
3) The reason the computer will only see up to 32 MB is because that is technically the limit of 16 bit addressing. You are probably running GRiDDOS 3.3, which limits the size of each volume on your hard drive to 32 MB as a result. However, due to some slight of hand, DOS 4.0 and higher, will let you format the bigger drives to their full capacity.
4) I don't knonw anything about the rtty or baycom packet, but if it was on the computer already, it should run fine once you've solved the problem with 1287.
5) As to the SIPP's, I don't have a good answer at all. They are very hard to find, and although I have found a few 256K's here and there, the 1 Mb's are rarer than chicken's teeth. I am trying to figure a way to create a PCB board with the right chips (There are easily found themselves) that will connect to the memory connections in much the same way the old paragon memory adpatation for 16 Mb RAM did, but I really need to find out what that was all about first. This may not be achievable, though.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> not sure about the 1755 i think it runs but not fired it up of late
> but the 1520 i would like to get running
> will the repowerby by hooking new battery of the ori dallas chip have any problem
> with the password
> i never used a pass word in any of the ones i had running
> always felt it would just keep me out and the snoopers would know a work around
> or if i supplied chips can you burn a set
> i have some of the oem Conner drives that are big
> but will not run in mine because it is limited to 20 or 40 i forget
> i would like to use mine to run rtty or baycom packet
> radio it ran packet great
> and would love to find sipps to max out the memory
> as i know the tricks to make it run win 3.1 but it works better with more memory
> dave
>
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:51:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] what is file name
Hey there, Dave.
It's here in text form: http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/AGpKS8cMg2zHxH8cdc5OISjiS36EyeXOdYVskyC7FzKb9Pb2bE1K2YSgajGEG5l4E_bsJoJ8lk9u9MWZULCB/1520%20Hard%20Drive%20Reprograming%20Instructions.txt
I noticed there are several typos. I haven't gone back to fix them. It's a detailed procedure. Please let me know if you're unsure of something or have any questions.
Enjoy,
-Shawn
----- Original Message ----
From: wd8cyv <wd8cyv@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 7:42:57 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] what is file name
First, as you had asked, there is a mod for repowering your original 1287 chip.
Shawn has described in a file in the files section.
what is the file name or a link i am having trouble finding it
if i know its name it may be stored in one of my computers
as i never erase a hard drive
dave
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:54:40 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: what is file name
Sorry Dave, I thought the file was in there. It actually isn't.
Here is the reference to it, though:
http://www.mcamafia.de/mcapage0/dsrework.htm
Follow the instructions on the page. The only difference is that you cannot put the battery on top of the chip like in the picture because there is no room for it in the 1520. The keyboard sits right on top of the chip. You will have to run the wires off to the side and put the battery elsewhere. what type of battery you use is up to you. A coin type Lithium battery works just fine.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
> First, as you had asked, there is a mod for repowering your original 1287 chip.
> Shawn has described in a file in the files section.
>
> what is the file name or a link i am having trouble finding it
> if i know its name it may be stored in one of my computers
> as i never erase a hard drive
> dave
>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 01:02:09 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Files Section Limit
Shawn,
When I put up the manuals into the files section, it appears I maxed out the storage capacity for the files. Are you able to get storage capacity increased by Yahoo to enable more files being put in? If not, I think I would delete the manuals out of that section and simply make provisions for them to be downloaded off your server, or I can probably be able to put them on my server. What do you think?
Phil
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:57:39 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: what is file name
Thanks, Shawn,
But he's looking for the instructions to rework the Dallas RTC 1287 chip to put an external battery on it, not put a different hard drive on, although that may be something he's looking for too.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Hey there, Dave.
> It's here in text form: http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/AGpKS8cMg2zHxH8cdc5OISjiS36EyeXOdYVskyC7FzKb9Pb2bE1K2YSgajGEG5l4E_bsJoJ8lk9u9MWZULCB/1520%20Hard%20Drive%20Reprograming%20Instructions.txt
>
> I noticed there are several typos. I haven't gone back to fix them. It's a detailed procedure. Please let me know if you're unsure of something or have any questions.
> Enjoy,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: wd8cyv <wd8cyv@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 7:42:57 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] what is file name
>
> First, as you had asked, there is a mod for repowering your original 1287 chip.
> Shawn has described in a file in the files section.
>
> what is the file name or a link i am having trouble finding it
> if i know its name it may be stored in one of my computers
> as i never erase a hard drive
> dave
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 01:40:01 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: bigger
i want to get the dallas wotking
and would love to do a bigger hard drive
has any one ever used a adapter for a cf card in one
probably have to load the power supply to get it to run
with out the hard drive current draw
512 cf card would be a neat mod
dave
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 01:52:09 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: Re: what is file name
page 404 error on Shawnerz's link
and the hd change is way beyond my skill level any more
had a heart attack in 2003 and it took out a bunch of my skills
sad to say most of the complex electrical stuff i knew
and age 64 is a bit late to relearn how to burn eproms
would need some one to burn them for me
i can get them into the machine
dave
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 02:09:03 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: bigger
Just follow the directions on that URL page that I sent you. It's the one I used for my external battery mods. However, a compact flash card would be a whole different thing. I know Shawn has been doing some experimenting with that. I don't know how far he's gone with it. The biggest problem I see with it is that even if you upgrade the OS to DOS 6.2, then load Win 3.1 on top of it, that's probably going to be the extent of how far you can go with this 286 computer in terms of an OS. Even then, it might be temperamental.
A CF Card is technology that may be beyond it. I'm not saying it's impossible, but you would probably have to get a programmer to specifically create a program to be able to use it. There certainly isn't any manufacturer out there who's goign to make it compatible back to a twenty year old dino like our babies here. The program would have to load the parameters into the computer to allow it to recognize the hardware. (Sort of like that MSDMCX.exe file that's used to connect up CDROM's to the comnputer so it can see them.) The problem with doing this, I think, is the size of the CF cards. You probably will be limited to 512 Mb maximum size or so, because the OS won't be able to handle more than that. You can't use DOS 3.3 for sure. It will only go handle 32 Mb max. These are just some thoughts, though. I don't know for sure.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
> i want to get the dallas wotking
> and would love to do a bigger hard drive
> has any one ever used a adapter for a cf card in one
> probably have to load the power supply to get it to run
> with out the hard drive current draw
> 512 cf card would be a neat mod
> dave
>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 02:11:00 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: what is file name
Don't worry about Shawn's link. Use the one I sent you.
I can burn EPROMS, but I'll need the original BIOS file from your 1520.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
> page 404 error on Shawnerz's link
> and the hd change is way beyond my skill level any more
> had a heart attack in 2003 and it took out a bunch of my skills
> sad to say most of the complex electrical stuff i knew
> and age 64 is a bit late to relearn how to burn eproms
>
> would need some one to burn them for me
> i can get them into the machine
> dave
>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:51:54 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: what i am getting
when it boots it comes up ok and checks memory
and says
invalid configuration information; code 02
so i think this means its not seeing the Dallas time chip
and it instructions
will give the chip hack a shot
as for the cf card i think it can be placed in an other machine
and force formatted to a size in the drive table and system installed
have a custom set of dos 6.0 disks with an extra disk that
installs all the good stuff from 6.22 and kills all the bad stuff
like the disk compressor and smart drive exe that cause problems
only problem i see is i ran a 2.5 laptop drive in one
and had to load the power supply or it would not light up
the switching supply would not turn on
the cf card would not save any power but would probably
be very reliable once debugged
we will see if it goes that far
dave
thanks guys
check in later in the week i still drive school bus and back at it
Monday after snow days last week
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:51:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name
text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi Dave glad to see you're still about. Are you still motorcycling ? I'm 73 and while my memory isn't as good as it used to be and at times I have to search books to reacquaint myself with learned knowledge which I used to take for granted. Don't be intimidated by age. I've known many people who were aged before they reached 40, as I'm sure you do. From my perspective you're still a young man. All sorts of studies are out there that an inactive mind encourages Dementia(Altheimers). Younger people tend to have a busier metabolism which can tend to be annoying at times, but we have a wealth of experience which they are still learning. Heart attacks are disabling but good diet and exercise can re-enable you. Just don't give in to the mythology of the youth culture which is so current in our society. Sure we lose some of our speed and physical abilities, but I'm inspired by many like "Jackrabbit" Johanneson who was still making crosscountry 50mi. skiing
trips at 95, or so many of the aged artists or writers who are still very proficient.
On this whole password issue I still hold that grounding out the Dallas chip erases the BIOS and any sort of password or password need. The original spec sheet of the Dallas chip mentions this, IIRC, or else I saw it in one of the old Grid postings on usenet. I do remember the problems of disassembling the 1520 and getting under the keyboard at the chip in order to make my 1520 functional. I can only imagine it was the
password problem. I can't see any other reason for disassembling my Grid to get at the chip. I definitely did not replace the chip. Occasionally I would have to open it up and rap the HDD sharply with a rubber handled screwdriver to get the HD working because it wouldn't retain the RAM chip xts settings which means they weren't in the BIOS but perhaps the autoexec. I haven't played with it for some time as my time seems to be taken up lately by just keeping my newer "Gee-Whiz-Bang" computers functioning and enabling other old computers in my considerable collection, so that I can sell them before they become a problem which the executor of my estate, my nephew, is ill-equiped to deal with. As well as gardening and renovating my 100-year old house.
I have the Grid SCSI module with it's docs and program. It mentions the place in memory where it places the code which enables the SCSI interface. I must admit to not ever using it. I think there is only a limited amount of BIOS on the Dallas chip. That related to time and password. If the SCSI code is not entered on the Dallas chip surely there are other BIOS locations which are accessable and changeable with the proper assembly code as used by the SCSI module. Similarly, I have used Zip drives on other computers with small HDs. Has anyone tried using the many AT BIOS programs like getbios.com. I seem to recall they didn't work to set the BIOS but I can't recall. A CF would be great but I think the BIOS and the Grid would have to have some sort of PCMCIA capabilities, which would entail even greater problems. But perhaps some sort of module having DMA capabilities like the SCSI one could work.
Mike Brutman's post also seems to place some questions as to the password NEED being related to the Dallas chip. I know I used my 1520s for years, without a password problem, altho I had to update the time, date, settings,( if I wanted to) which would indicate a dead Dallas battery. When I get the time, which would likely be less than the time I spent on this post, I'll dig the working( I removed the SIPPs on one in order to get 8M ram) Grid out and boot it up with a floppy.
Lawrence
________________________________
From: wd8cyv <wd8cyv@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 7:52:09 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name
page 404 error on Shawnerz's link
and the hd change is way beyond my skill level any more
had a heart attack in 2003 and it took out a bunch of my skills
sad to say most of the complex electrical stuff i knew
and age 64 is a bit late to relearn how to burn eproms
would need some one to burn them for me
i can get them into the machine
dave
__________________________________________________________________
Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:05:19 +0100
From: Andrea
Subject: Dallas reworking
Hallo Dave,
some pictures of dallas reworking on my 1520, now the new battery a
CR3032 is near the memory modules.
Andrea
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:11:49 +0100
From: Andrea
Subject: Dallas reworking
sorry, the pictures
http://picasaweb.google.com/Zentaro.cane/Gridcase1520#
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:04:36 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: remove case
1520 case removal
i remember how to get the case off the back part but the case around
the keyboard
HELP so i don't break some thing
its been 2002 or 2003 since i had one apart
dave
the fellow i bought my first one from showed me
but lost track of him
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:20:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] remove case
Dave,
Lift up gently with a wide, flatblade screwdriver.
At least, that's how I do it.
Good luck,
-Shawn
----- Original Message ----
From: wd8cyv <wd8cyv@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 6:04:36 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] remove case
1520 case removal
i remember how to get the case off the back part but the case around
the keyboard
HELP so i don't break some thing
its been 2002 or 2003 since i had one apart
dave
the fellow i bought my first one from showed me
but lost track of him
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:43:52 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: remove case
Dave,
There is a file in the files section on disassembling the unit. check it out. It's called:
GRiDCASE 1500 DISASSEMBLY_REASSEMBLY Instructions.pdf
That will give you more info.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
> 1520 case removal
> i remember how to get the case off the back part but the case around
> the keyboard
> HELP so i don't break some thing
> its been 2002 or 2003 since i had one apart
> dave
> the fellow i bought my first one from showed me
> but lost track of him
>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 01:08:54 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Dallas RTC Initialization Data
Hey, guys, I found it! This gives you the readout on the memory in the RTC and what each bit is used for. This ought to help Mike in figuring out how to dump the contents of the RTC.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
RTC
In the PC architecture the Real Time Clock contains a battery clock and CMOS RAM. The clock keeps time after power has been removed and also stores the system configuration in CMOS RAM. If the system is never to be powered off, then an RTC may not be required. If the system is not expandable, then the configuration information can be stored in ROM.
CMOS RAM Function RAM Locations:
Time/Date 00H-09H
RTC Control Regs 0AH-0DH
Diagnostic Byte 0EH
Reset Code Byte 0FH
Diskette Type 10H
Reserved 11H
Hard Disk Type 12H
Reserved 13H
Equipment Installed Byte 14H
Base & Extended Memory 15H-18H
Reserved 19H-2CH
Additional Flags 2DH
Checksum Value 2EH-2FH
Memory above 1MB 30H-31H
Century 32H
System Information 33H
Reserved 34H-3FH (Password Storage starts at 34H in the GRiD,
possibly)
The original RTC used in the PC AT was a Motorola MC146818. Now several manufacturers supply equivalent products like Dallas Semiconductors DS1287 and BenchMarq. The RTC contains 64 bytes of CMOS RAM that are accessed using two I/O locations port 70 and 71. Port 70 is the address register and port 71 is the data register. Valid address values are 0 to 3FH for 64 CMOS locations. The first 10 locations are used by the RTC to update the time and date, the next four locations are control registers for the RTC, and the remaining 50 locations are used to store system configuration.
The Reset Code Byte(0FH) was originally used in the PC-AT to allow the 80286 processor to return from protected mode to real mode by using the processor reset. This byte would indicate why the processor was reset and has several possible values:
00H Normal power up reset or <CTRL> <ALT> <DEL> reset.
04H Skip POST
05H Skip POST, preserve memory, send an EOI to the Interrupt
controller, and then jump to reset vector 0040:0067. .
09H Block move return
0AH Jump to reset vector 0040:0067 without issuing EOI.
The location 0040:0067 contains the address where Real Mode execution should resume. On an Intel386TM processor or Intel486TM processor based system the switch from protected to real mode can be made without resetting the processor, instead the Protected Enable(PE) bit in the Processors MSW register can be disabled. Some BIOSs allow this selection. If the design does not require a real time clock then it is possible to use the PE bit to switch from protected mode to real mode. To maintain compatibility the BIOS can be hard coded with the
hardware configuration. If the design requires MS-DOS* or MS Windows* than an RTC is a requirement.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
This is good info on the RTC.
Phil
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 01:47:58 -0000
From: "bigwalk_ca"
Subject: Re: what is file name
Most of my references to BIOS should have been to CMOS on the Dallas chip. Would grounding the chip depend on a little bit of power left in the chip ? One would think that like a capacitor, grounding it would simply remove any residual charge and presumably any data on it.
Again I maintain, it worked for me and my memory is not so fragile that I misrecall the results of my grounding the onboard chip. Now perhaps it only worked with the original Dallas chip and ISTR a reference to replacing it only with the 1287A Dallas chip. Perhaps this new data J. presented can clear up the puzzle.
I assure you all that I take vintage computers seriously and do not make BS statements freely, like some of the younger vintage adherents might to score brownie points.
Lawrence
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Dave glad to see you're still about. Are you still motorcycling ? I'm 73 and while my memory isn't as good as it used to be and at times I have to search books to reacquaint myself with learned knowledge which I used to take for granted. Don't be intimidated by age. I've known many people who were aged before they reached 40, as I'm sure you do. From my perspective you're still a young man. All sorts of studies are out there that an inactive mind encourages Dementia(Altheimers). Younger people tend to have a busier metabolism which can tend to be annoying at times, but we have a wealth of experience which they are still learning. Heart attacks are disabling but good diet and exercise can re-enable you. Just don't give in to the mythology of the youth culture which is so current in our society. Sure we lose some of our speed and physical abilities, but I'm inspired by many like "Jackrabbit" Johanneson who was still making crosscountry 50mi. skiing
> trips at 95, or so many of the aged artists or writers who are still very proficient.
>
> On this whole password issue I still hold that grounding out the Dallas chip erases the BIOS and any sort of password or password need. The original spec sheet of the Dallas chip mentions this, IIRC, or else I saw it in one of the old Grid postings on usenet. I do remember the problems of disassembling the 1520 and getting under the keyboard at the chip in order to make my 1520 functional. I can only imagine it was the
> password problem. I can't see any other reason for disassembling my Grid to get at the chip. I definitely did not replace the chip. Occasionally I would have to open it up and rap the HDD sharply with a rubber handled screwdriver to get the HD working because it wouldn't retain the RAM chip xts settings which means they weren't in the BIOS but perhaps the autoexec. I haven't played with it for some time as my time seems to be taken up lately by just keeping my newer "Gee-Whiz-Bang" computers functioning and enabling other old computers in my considerable collection, so that I can sell them before they become a problem which the executor of my estate, my nephew, is ill-equiped to deal with. As well as gardening and renovating my 100-year old house.
>
> I have the Grid SCSI module with it's docs and program. It mentions the place in memory where it places the code which enables the SCSI interface. I must admit to not ever using it. I think there is only a limited amount of BIOS on the Dallas chip. That related to time and password. If the SCSI code is not entered on the Dallas chip surely there are other BIOS locations which are accessable and changeable with the proper assembly code as used by the SCSI module. Similarly, I have used Zip drives on other computers with small HDs. Has anyone tried using the many AT BIOS programs like getbios.com. I seem to recall they didn't work to set the BIOS but I can't recall. A CF would be great but I think the BIOS and the Grid would have to have some sort of PCMCIA capabilities, which would entail even greater problems. But perhaps some sort of module having DMA capabilities like the SCSI one could work.
>
> Mike Brutman's post also seems to place some questions as to the password NEED being related to the Dallas chip. I know I used my 1520s for years, without a password problem, altho I had to update the time, date, settings,( if I wanted to) which would indicate a dead Dallas battery. When I get the time, which would likely be less than the time I spent on this post, I'll dig the working( I removed the SIPPs on one in order to get 8M ram) Grid out and boot it up with a floppy.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: wd8cyv <wd8cyv@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 7:52:09 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name
>
>
> page 404 error on Shawnerz's link
> and the hd change is way beyond my skill level any more
> had a heart attack in 2003 and it took out a bunch of my skills
> sad to say most of the complex electrical stuff i knew
> and age 64 is a bit late to relearn how to burn eproms
>
> would need some one to burn them for me
> i can get them into the machine
> dave
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:43:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Dallas RTC Initialization Data
Wow! Very good information.
BTW, where did you find this? Was it from your friend or did this come from a data sheet somewhere?
Thanks,
-Shawn
----- Original Message ----
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 8:08:54 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Dallas RTC Initialization Data
Hey, guys, I found it! This gives you the readout on the memory in the RTC and what each bit is used for. This ought to help Mike in figuring out how to dump the contents of the RTC.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
RTC
In the PC architecture the Real Time Clock contains a battery clock and CMOS RAM. The clock keeps time after power has been removed and also stores the system configuration in CMOS RAM. If the system is never to be powered off, then an RTC may not be required. If the system is not expandable, then the configuration information can be stored in ROM.
CMOS RAM Function RAM Locations:
Time/Date 00H-09H
RTC Control Regs 0AH-0DH
Diagnostic Byte 0EH
Reset Code Byte 0FH
Diskette Type 10H
Reserved 11H
Hard Disk Type 12H
Reserved 13H
Equipment Installed Byte 14H
Base & Extended Memory 15H-18H
Reserved 19H-2CH
Additional Flags 2DH
Checksum Value 2EH-2FH
Memory above 1MB 30H-31H
Century 32H
System Information 33H
Reserved 34H-3FH (Password Storage starts at 34H in the GRiD,
possibly)
The original RTC used in the PC AT was a Motorola MC146818. Now several manufacturers supply equivalent products like Dallas Semiconductors DS1287 and BenchMarq. The RTC contains 64 bytes of CMOS RAM that are accessed using two I/O locations port 70 and 71. Port 70 is the address register and port 71 is the data register. Valid address values are 0 to 3FH for 64 CMOS locations. The first 10 locations are used by the RTC to update the time and date, the next four locations are control registers for the RTC, and the remaining 50 locations are used to store system configuration.
The Reset Code Byte(0FH) was originally used in the PC-AT to allow the 80286 processor to return from protected mode to real mode by using the processor reset. This byte would indicate why the processor was reset and has several possible values:
00H Normal power up reset or <CTRL> <ALT> <DEL> reset.
04H Skip POST
05H Skip POST, preserve memory, send an EOI to the Interrupt
controller, and then jump to reset vector 0040:0067. .
09H Block move return
0AH Jump to reset vector 0040:0067 without issuing EOI.
The location 0040:0067 contains the address where Real Mode execution should resume. On an Intel386TM processor or Intel486TM processor based system the switch from protected to real mode can be made without resetting the processor, instead the Protected Enable(PE) bit in the Processors MSW register can be disabled. Some BIOSs allow this selection. If the design does not require a real time clock then it is possible to use the PE bit to switch from protected mode to real mode. To maintain compatibility the BIOS can be hard coded with the
hardware configuration. If the design requires MS-DOS* or MS Windows* than an RTC is a requirement.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
This is good info on the RTC.
Phil
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:04:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name
Hey, Lawrence.
I don't think anyone was making any accusations whether or not your procedure worked. Perhaps you received something privately. But, I don't recall anyone implying you were making a BS statement.
Having said that, in light of Phil's (Jerridan) post, it appears that grounding the 12887A would make things worse.
I don't mean to insult you at all. I just want to be sure we're all on the same sheet of music.
There were two different types of Dallas RTC chips in the 1520: the 1287A and the 12887A. The 1287A has an external lithium battery soldered to the motherboard. The 12887A has much larger case that houses an internal button cell battery.
If you removed the battery from the motherboard, the 1287A would "dump." Time of day (and probably password) would need to be set.
If you shorted the battery in the 12887A, it too would dump and now you have a dead battery. Time of day (and possibly the password) would have to be set each time at power up. IIRC, you can't short the battery on the 12887A because the battery pins do not extend out of the bottom of the chip.
That's my $.02.
-Shawn
----- Original Message ----
From: bigwalk_ca <bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 8:47:58 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name
Most of my references to BIOS should have been to CMOS on the Dallas chip. Would grounding the chip depend on a little bit of power left in the chip ? One would think that like a capacitor, grounding it would simply remove any residual charge and presumably any data on it.
Again I maintain, it worked for me and my memory is not so fragile that I misrecall the results of my grounding the onboard chip. Now perhaps it only worked with the original Dallas chip and ISTR a reference to replacing it only with the 1287A Dallas chip. Perhaps this new data J. presented can clear up the puzzle.
I assure you all that I take vintage computers seriously and do not make BS statements freely, like some of the younger vintage adherents might to score brownie points.
Lawrence
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Dave glad to see you're still about. Are you still motorcycling ? I'm 73 and while my memory isn't as good as it used to be and at times I have to search books to reacquaint myself with learned knowledge which I used to take for granted. Don't be intimidated by age. I've known many people who were aged before they reached 40, as I'm sure you do. From my perspective you're still a young man. All sorts of studies are out there that an inactive mind encourages Dementia(Altheimers). Younger people tend to have a busier metabolism which can tend to be annoying at times, but we have a wealth of experience which they are still learning. Heart attacks are disabling but good diet and exercise can re-enable you. Just don't give in to the mythology of the youth culture which is so current in our society. Sure we lose some of our speed and physical abilities, but I'm inspired by many like "Jackrabbit" Johanneson who was still making crosscountry 50mi. skiing
> trips at 95, or so many of the aged artists or writers who are still very proficient.
>
> On this whole password issue I still hold that grounding out the Dallas chip erases the BIOS and any sort of password or password need. The original spec sheet of the Dallas chip mentions this, IIRC, or else I saw it in one of the old Grid postings on usenet. I do remember the problems of disassembling the 1520 and getting under the keyboard at the chip in order to make my 1520 functional. I can only imagine it was the
> password problem. I can't see any other reason for disassembling my Grid to get at the chip. I definitely did not replace the chip. Occasionally I would have to open it up and rap the HDD sharply with a rubber handled screwdriver to get the HD working because it wouldn't retain the RAM chip xts settings which means they weren't in the BIOS but perhaps the autoexec. I haven't played with it for some time as my time seems to be taken up lately by just keeping my newer "Gee-Whiz-Bang" computers functioning and enabling other old computers in my considerable collection, so that I can sell them before they become a problem which the executor of my estate, my nephew, is ill-equiped to deal with. As well as gardening and renovating my 100-year old house.
>
> I have the Grid SCSI module with it's docs and program. It mentions the place in memory where it places the code which enables the SCSI interface. I must admit to not ever using it. I think there is only a limited amount of BIOS on the Dallas chip. That related to time and password. If the SCSI code is not entered on the Dallas chip surely there are other BIOS locations which are accessable and changeable with the proper assembly code as used by the SCSI module. Similarly, I have used Zip drives on other computers with small HDs. Has anyone tried using the many AT BIOS programs like getbios.com. I seem to recall they didn't work to set the BIOS but I can't recall. A CF would be great but I think the BIOS and the Grid would have to have some sort of PCMCIA capabilities, which would entail even greater problems. But perhaps some sort of module having DMA capabilities like the SCSI one could work.
>
> Mike Brutman's post also seems to place some questions as to the password NEED being related to the Dallas chip. I know I used my 1520s for years, without a password problem, altho I had to update the time, date, settings,( if I wanted to) which would indicate a dead Dallas battery. When I get the time, which would likely be less than the time I spent on this post, I'll dig the working( I removed the SIPPs on one in order to get 8M ram) Grid out and boot it up with a floppy.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: wd8cyv <wd8cyv@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 7:52:09 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name
>
>
> page 404 error on Shawnerz's link
> and the hd change is way beyond my skill level any more
> had a heart attack in 2003 and it took out a bunch of my skills
> sad to say most of the complex electrical stuff i knew
> and age 64 is a bit late to relearn how to burn eproms
>
> would need some one to burn them for me
> i can get them into the machine
> dave
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
>
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 04:51:55 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Dallas RTC Initialization Data
It was a data sheet, but I can't remember where I got it! Darn it. I actually had already downloaded this some time ago, but lost track of it. Luckily as I was searching files, I ran across it today.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Wow! Very good information.
> BTW, where did you find this? Was it from your friend or did this come from a data sheet somewhere?
> Thanks,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 8:08:54 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Dallas RTC Initialization Data
>
> Hey, guys, I found it! This gives you the readout on the memory in the RTC and what each bit is used for. This ought to help Mike in figuring out how to dump the contents of the RTC.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> RTC
> In the PC architecture the Real Time Clock contains a battery clock and CMOS RAM. The clock keeps time after power has been removed and also stores the system configuration in CMOS RAM. If the system is never to be powered off, then an RTC may not be required. If the system is not expandable, then the configuration information can be stored in ROM.
>
> CMOS RAM Function RAM Locations:
>
> Time/Date 00H-09H
> RTC Control Regs 0AH-0DH
> Diagnostic Byte 0EH
> Reset Code Byte 0FH
> Diskette Type 10H
> Reserved 11H
> Hard Disk Type 12H
> Reserved 13H
> Equipment Installed Byte 14H
> Base & Extended Memory 15H-18H
> Reserved 19H-2CH
> Additional Flags 2DH
> Checksum Value 2EH-2FH
> Memory above 1MB 30H-31H
> Century 32H
> System Information 33H
> Reserved 34H-3FH (Password Storage starts at 34H in the GRiD,
> possibly)
>
> The original RTC used in the PC AT was a Motorola MC146818. Now several manufacturers supply equivalent products like Dallas Semiconductors DS1287 and BenchMarq. The RTC contains 64 bytes of CMOS RAM that are accessed using two I/O locations port 70 and 71. Port 70 is the address register and port 71 is the data register. Valid address values are 0 to 3FH for 64 CMOS locations. The first 10 locations are used by the RTC to update the time and date, the next four locations are control registers for the RTC, and the remaining 50 locations are used to store system configuration.
>
> The Reset Code Byte(0FH) was originally used in the PC-AT to allow the 80286 processor to return from protected mode to real mode by using the processor reset. This byte would indicate why the processor was reset and has several possible values:
>
> 00H Normal power up reset or <CTRL> <ALT> <DEL> reset.
> 04H Skip POST
> 05H Skip POST, preserve memory, send an EOI to the Interrupt
> controller, and then jump to reset vector 0040:0067. .
> 09H Block move return
> 0AH Jump to reset vector 0040:0067 without issuing EOI.
>
> The location 0040:0067 contains the address where Real Mode execution should resume. On an Intel386TM processor or Intel486TM processor based system the switch from protected to real mode can be made without resetting the processor, instead the Protected Enable(PE) bit in the Processors MSW register can be disabled. Some BIOSs allow this selection. If the design does not require a real time clock then it is possible to use the PE bit to switch from protected mode to real mode. To maintain compatibility the BIOS can be hard coded with the
> hardware configuration. If the design requires MS-DOS* or MS Windows* than an RTC is a requirement.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is good info on the RTC.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 05:20:17 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: what is file name
Shawn,
I don't think this is correct. The two chips that were on the 1520 were the 1287 and the 1287A. The difference between the two is that the 1287A had an extra pin by which you could clear out the data registers by shorting that extra pin to ground. In other words, it will reset the chip in case of the password not being known. The 1287 has no reset pin, so that cannot be done with that version. You can only replace the chip, which of course creates a whole new set of problems as has been recently discussed and thankfully solved.
I have no doubt that Lawrence was able to make his chip work by shorting the proper pins. Obviously it did work. I never doubted that. I just couldn't figure out why I couldn't do it with my units. It may be because I had a different revision of the motherboard.
By the way, Lawrence, as to my analyses, I grant there is a fair amount of speculation and some of it may be inaccurate. I will say so when I speculate. It's just a lot of fun to try and figure the computer out and how it works. If someone thinks something I said was incorrect, by all means say so, and show me why. My interest is to further knowledge on how this computer works and to advance that knowledge so we can get more enjoyment out of them. I do this as a hobby between the times I work as a sub-specialty physician in a group practice with a large patient load. I certainly don't need brownie points here.
As to the 12887A, it was not created until well past the time the 1520's were no longer being made. They have twice the amount of memory and are designed for 32 bit computers, not 16 bit computers like the 1520. They won't even work in the 1520 because of that.
None of these Dallas RTC modules have external batteries. The batteries are all incorporated into the case of the RTC chip itself. In those GRiD motherboards which have external Tadiran batteries, those motherboards don't use a Dallas RTC at all. They use a different clocking chip which runs off the external battery.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Hey, Lawrence.
> I don't think anyone was making any accusations whether or not your procedure worked. Perhaps you received something privately. But, I don't recall anyone implying you were making a BS statement.
> Having said that, in light of Phil's (Jerridan) post, it appears that grounding the 12887A would make things worse.
> I don't mean to insult you at all. I just want to be sure we're all on the same sheet of music.
> There were two different types of Dallas RTC chips in the 1520: the 1287A and the 12887A. The 1287A has an external lithium battery soldered to the motherboard. The 12887A has much larger case that houses an internal button cell battery.
> If you removed the battery from the motherboard, the 1287A would "dump." Time of day (and probably password) would need to be set.
> If you shorted the battery in the 12887A, it too would dump and now you have a dead battery. Time of day (and possibly the password) would have to be set each time at power up. IIRC, you can't short the battery on the 12887A because the battery pins do not extend out of the bottom of the chip.
> That's my $.02.
> -Shawn
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: bigwalk_ca <bigwalk_ca@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 8:47:58 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name
>
> Most of my references to BIOS should have been to CMOS on the Dallas chip. Would grounding the chip depend on a little bit of power left in the chip ? One would think that like a capacitor, grounding it would simply remove any residual charge and presumably any data on it.
> Again I maintain, it worked for me and my memory is not so fragile that I misrecall the results of my grounding the onboard chip. Now perhaps it only worked with the original Dallas chip and ISTR a reference to replacing it only with the 1287A Dallas chip. Perhaps this new data J. presented can clear up the puzzle.
>
> I assure you all that I take vintage computers seriously and do not make BS statements freely, like some of the younger vintage adherents might to score brownie points.
>
> Lawrence
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Dave glad to see you're still about. Are you still motorcycling ? I'm 73 and while my memory isn't as good as it used to be and at times I have to search books to reacquaint myself with learned knowledge which I used to take for granted. Don't be intimidated by age. I've known many people who were aged before they reached 40, as I'm sure you do. From my perspective you're still a young man. All sorts of studies are out there that an inactive mind encourages Dementia(Altheimers). Younger people tend to have a busier metabolism which can tend to be annoying at times, but we have a wealth of experience which they are still learning. Heart attacks are disabling but good diet and exercise can re-enable you. Just don't give in to the mythology of the youth culture which is so current in our society. Sure we lose some of our speed and physical abilities, but I'm inspired by many like "Jackrabbit" Johanneson who was still making crosscountry 50mi. skiing
> > trips at 95, or so many of the aged artists or writers who are still very proficient.
> >
> > On this whole password issue I still hold that grounding out the Dallas chip erases the BIOS and any sort of password or password need. The original spec sheet of the Dallas chip mentions this, IIRC, or else I saw it in one of the old Grid postings on usenet. I do remember the problems of disassembling the 1520 and getting under the keyboard at the chip in order to make my 1520 functional. I can only imagine it was the
> > password problem. I can't see any other reason for disassembling my Grid to get at the chip. I definitely did not replace the chip. Occasionally I would have to open it up and rap the HDD sharply with a rubber handled screwdriver to get the HD working because it wouldn't retain the RAM chip xts settings which means they weren't in the BIOS but perhaps the autoexec. I haven't played with it for some time as my time seems to be taken up lately by just keeping my newer "Gee-Whiz-Bang" computers functioning and enabling other old computers in my considerable collection, so that I can sell them before they become a problem which the executor of my estate, my nephew, is ill-equiped to deal with. As well as gardening and renovating my 100-year old house.
> >
> > I have the Grid SCSI module with it's docs and program. It mentions the place in memory where it places the code which enables the SCSI interface. I must admit to not ever using it. I think there is only a limited amount of BIOS on the Dallas chip. That related to time and password. If the SCSI code is not entered on the Dallas chip surely there are other BIOS locations which are accessable and changeable with the proper assembly code as used by the SCSI module. Similarly, I have used Zip drives on other computers with small HDs. Has anyone tried using the many AT BIOS programs like getbios.com. I seem to recall they didn't work to set the BIOS but I can't recall. A CF would be great but I think the BIOS and the Grid would have to have some sort of PCMCIA capabilities, which would entail even greater problems. But perhaps some sort of module having DMA capabilities like the SCSI one could work.
> >
> > Mike Brutman's post also seems to place some questions as to the password NEED being related to the Dallas chip. I know I used my 1520s for years, without a password problem, altho I had to update the time, date, settings,( if I wanted to) which would indicate a dead Dallas battery. When I get the time, which would likely be less than the time I spent on this post, I'll dig the working( I removed the SIPPs on one in order to get 8M ram) Grid out and boot it up with a floppy.
> >
> > Lawrence
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: wd8cyv <wd8cyv@>
> > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 7:52:09 PM
> > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name
> >
> >
> > page 404 error on Shawnerz's link
> > and the hd change is way beyond my skill level any more
> > had a heart attack in 2003 and it took out a bunch of my skills
> > sad to say most of the complex electrical stuff i knew
> > and age 64 is a bit late to relearn how to burn eproms
> >
> > would need some one to burn them for me
> > i can get them into the machine
> > dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________________
> > Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 02:23:20 +0100
From: Andrea
Subject: DALLAS RTC12887 1287A
Hi
I don't remember exactly but after changing the battery on the Dallas
the computer restarts without asking
the password, I don't think it was none left residual energy on the chip
even I desolder from the motherboard and cut the
wires from the internal battery to the pin of the RTC. I also added a
switch between ground and the RCLR pin but I don't think I ever used.
Recently on my 1550sx, triyng to understand which data the computer
writes on the Cmos memory, I tried an utility that read or kill data
file to Cmos memory . Erasing all data, the computer asked me the
password, an old post advised to unplug the battery leaving it for a few
hours. After that the computer restarted normally.
Andrea
.
This is the description of the use of the RCLR pins found on the
DS12887 datasheet
DESCRIPTION
The DS12887A real-time clock plus RAM is designed to be a direct
replacement for the DS1287A. The
DS12887A is identical in form, fit, and function to the DS1287A, and
includes additional 64 bytes of
general-purpose RAM. Access to this additional RAM space is determined
by the logic level presented on
AD6 during the address portion of an access cycle. The RCLR pin is used
to clear (set to logic 1) all 114
bytes of general purpose RAM but does not affect the RAM associated with
the real-time clock. In order
to clear the RAM, RCLR must be forced to an input logic 0 (-0.3V to
+0.8V) during battery-backup mode
DS12887A when VCC is not applied. The RCLR function is designed to be
used via human interface (shorting to ground manually or by switch) and
not to be driven with external buffers
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 19:21:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] DALLAS RTC12887 1287A
Thank you for the information, Andrea. I'm sure it will be helpful.
-Shawn
----- Original Message ----
From: Andrea <zentaro.cane@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, January 12, 2010 8:23:20 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] DALLAS RTC12887 1287A
Hi
I don't remember exactly but after changing the battery on the Dallas
the computer restarts without asking
the password, I don't think it was none left residual energy on the chip
even I desolder from the motherboard and cut the
wires from the internal battery to the pin of the RTC. I also added a
switch between ground and the RCLR pin but I don't think I ever used.
Recently on my 1550sx, triyng to understand which data the computer
writes on the Cmos memory, I tried an utility that read or kill data
file to Cmos memory . Erasing all data, the computer asked me the
password, an old post advised to unplug the battery leaving it for a few
hours. After that the computer restarted normally.
Andrea
.
This is the description of the use of the RCLR pins found on the
DS12887 datasheet
DESCRIPTION
The DS12887A real-time clock plus RAM is designed to be a direct
replacement for the DS1287A. The
DS12887A is identical in form, fit, and function to the DS1287A, and
includes additional 64 bytes of
general-purpose RAM. Access to this additional RAM space is determined
by the logic level presented on
AD6 during the address portion of an access cycle. The RCLR pin is used
to clear (set to logic 1) all 114
bytes of general purpose RAM but does not affect the RAM associated with
the real-time clock. In order
to clear the RAM, RCLR must be forced to an input logic 0 (-0.3V to
+0.8V) during battery-backup mode
DS12887A when VCC is not applied. The RCLR function is designed to be
used via human interface (shorting to ground manually or by switch) and
not to be driven with external buffers
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:58:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Files Section Limit
Sorry I haven't responded to this, Phil. I've just been lazy.
We have 100 MB if file space and it doesn't look like I can increase it. Currently, it's at 62% so I guess that means we've used 62 MB. ;-)
Currently, my ftp port is shut off to keep the bot's from trying to hack in. If you have linux, you can ssh in.
As far as storage location, I'd prefer not to keep it. I have home DSL and the bandwidth starts choking when people start ftp-ing from my server. My wife and kids start complaining about how slow the computer is.
If you'd like to keep the information on your server, that's fine. I can transfer my stuff to your server but my guess is you have the same manuals and files that I do.
Just let me know what you'd like to do.
Thanks,
-Shawn
----- Original Message ----
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 8:02:09 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Files Section Limit
Shawn,
When I put up the manuals into the files section, it appears I maxed out the storage capacity for the files. Are you able to get storage capacity increased by Yahoo to enable more files being put in? If not, I think I would delete the manuals out of that section and simply make provisions for them to be downloaded off your server, or I can probably be able to put them on my server. What do you think?
Phil
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 03:50:43 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Files Section Limit
Shawn,
Okay, I guess that we haven't reached the limit. When I tried to load all of the manuals way back when, it wouldn't let me do it. It said I had exceeded the limit. So I thought I had maxxed out the storage space that was left just with my files. If you are right and you still have 38 Mb left, then I probably was just loading a manual that is way too big. I will try a little later to upload some other stuff and see if it works. If not, I can take off all of my files to free up some room and set them up on my server.
In any case, I will go ahead and set up something on my server for my files to keep them from taking too much of your bandwidth. I have a web site of which I am the administrator and it is located on a web server on which I can control a large domain. I'll let you know when I get it set up.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry I haven't responded to this, Phil. I've just been lazy.
> We have 100 MB if file space and it doesn't look like I can increase it. Currently, it's at 62% so I guess that means we've used 62 MB. ;-)
> Currently, my ftp port is shut off to keep the bot's from trying to hack in. If you have linux, you can ssh in.
> As far as storage location, I'd prefer not to keep it. I have home DSL and the bandwidth starts choking when people start ftp-ing from my server. My wife and kids start complaining about how slow the computer is.
> If you'd like to keep the information on your server, that's fine. I can transfer my stuff to your server but my guess is you have the same manuals and files that I do.
> Just let me know what you'd like to do.
> Thanks,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 8:02:09 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Files Section Limit
>
> Shawn,
>
> When I put up the manuals into the files section, it appears I maxed out the storage capacity for the files. Are you able to get storage capacity increased by Yahoo to enable more files being put in? If not, I think I would delete the manuals out of that section and simply make provisions for them to be downloaded off your server, or I can probably be able to put them on my server. What do you think?
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 11:39:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Repair post on Vintage Computer Forum
There was an interesting thread on VCF recently regarding repairing a faulty LCD screen on a 1520. Would also apply to other LCD displays.
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?19156-GRiDCase-1520-LCD-screen-dotting
Lawrence
__________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:45:15 -0000
From: "untergrundbiber"
Subject: GRiDCase 2
Hello
i found a GRiDCase 2 in the trash at work.
There is a label with "Grid Case 12XX" on the back
Have you any information about this?
Bye
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 15:04:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDCase 2
Hello and welcome to the group.
I do not know anything about that Grid. I have a 1520, 1550SX, and an older 1044. The 1520 is an 80286, the 1550SX is an 80386SX, and I think the 1044 might be a 8086 or another 286. I haven't played with the 1044.
Is the 1200 series rugged? Do they look like they are tough and can be in a harsh environment?
-Shawn
----- Original Message ----
From: untergrundbiber <untergrundbiber@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 3:45:15 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDCase 2
Hello
i found a GRiDCase 2 in the trash at work.
There is a label with "Grid Case 12XX" on the back
Have you any information about this?
Bye
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 01:20:22 -0000
From: "untergrundbiber"
Subject: Re: GRiDCase 2
thanks for the welcome
The 12XX looks like this:
http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/gridcase-2/index.html
But my Gridcase has no modem-port at the back and another floppydisk-drive.
Is label by the german subcompany "GRID Computer Systeme GmbH"
I hope i can make photos in the next days
Unfortunately the 4 ROM (RAM?) chip are missing.
Sorry for my bad english i am, like my Gridcase, from Germany too :D
Bye
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Hello and welcome to the group.
> I do not know anything about that Grid. I have a 1520, 1550SX, and an older 1044. The 1520 is an 80286, the 1550SX is an 80386SX, and I think the 1044 might be a 8086 or another 286. I haven't played with the 1044.
> Is the 1200 series rugged? Do they look like they are tough and can be in a harsh environment?
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: untergrundbiber <untergrundbiber@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 3:45:15 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDCase 2
>
> Hello
>
> i found a GRiDCase 2 in the trash at work.
> There is a label with "Grid Case 12XX" on the back
> Have you any information about this?
>
> Bye
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:39:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDCase 2
I am not certain, but I think the Grid 2 is a '286.
If you want to dis-assemble your Grid and look inside, it is fairly easy. If you have not already removed the cover, here is the way to do it:
You included a link below. In picture CIMG3363.JPG (the rear of the Grid). Above the 'Off/On' switch, there is a rubber "foot." You can use a small screwdriver to remove the foot.
The foot is a cover to a screw. Remove the screw and the other screw on the opposite side. The rear cover should be able to be removed.
Good luck and I hope you are able to find a use for the computer. :)
-Shawn
----- Original Message ----
From: untergrundbiber <untergrundbiber@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 8:20:22 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDCase 2
thanks for the welcome
The 12XX looks like this:
http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/gridcase-2/index.html
But my Gridcase has no modem-port at the back and another floppydisk-drive.
Is label by the german subcompany "GRID Computer Systeme GmbH"
I hope i can make photos in the next days
Unfortunately the 4 ROM (RAM?) chip are missing.
Sorry for my bad english i am, like my Gridcase, from Germany too :D
Bye
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Hello and welcome to the group.
> I do not know anything about that Grid. I have a 1520, 1550SX, and an older 1044. The 1520 is an 80286, the 1550SX is an 80386SX, and I think the 1044 might be a 8086 or another 286. I haven't played with the 1044.
> Is the 1200 series rugged? Do they look like they are tough and can be in a harsh environment?
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: untergrundbiber <untergrundbiber@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 3:45:15 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDCase 2
>
> Hello
>
> i found a GRiDCase 2 in the trash at work.
> There is a label with "Grid Case 12XX" on the back
> Have you any information about this?
>
> Bye
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 04:23:29 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDCase 2
Hi, untergrundbiber,
The Gridcase 2 is actually an older 8086 8 bit computer. Here is the data on it:
NAME GridCase
MANUFACTURER Grid
TYPE Professional Computer
ORIGIN U.S.A.
YEAR 1985
BUILT IN LANGUAGE None
KEYBOARD 57-key IBM PCjr-compatible
CPU 80C86 - low-power version (Low Power 8086)
SPEED 4.77 MHz
CO-PROCESSOR Socket for an 8087 math corpocessor
RAM 128 KB up to 512 KB
VRAM 16 KB
ROM Up to 512KB of user installable ROMs (4 slots)
TEXT MODES 80 characters x 25 lines
GRAPHIC MODES 640 x 200 pixels
COLORS Monochrome
SOUND Built-in speaker
SIZE / WEIGHT 28.5 (W) x 38 (D) x 5.7 (H) cm / 5.8 kg
I/O PORTS External colour monitor, Serial and Parallel ports, RJ11 phone jack, external PC keyboard, 50-pin expansion bus
BUILT IN MEDIA 3.5'' 720 KB FDD
OS MS-DOS 2.11, Grid-OS (proprietary OS)
POWER SUPPLY External AC supply, rechargeable battery pack
PERIPHERALS Internal 1200-baud modem ($795), external 5.25'' FDD ($895)
PRICE I $2975 - II $3150 - III $4350 - IV $4550
(The prices are 1985 prices BTW)
I hope this answers your question.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> I am not certain, but I think the Grid 2 is a '286.
> If you want to dis-assemble your Grid and look inside, it is fairly easy. If you have not already removed the cover, here is the way to do it:
> You included a link below. In picture CIMG3363.JPG (the rear of the Grid). Above the 'Off/On' switch, there is a rubber "foot." You can use a small screwdriver to remove the foot.
> The foot is a cover to a screw. Remove the screw and the other screw on the opposite side. The rear cover should be able to be removed.
> Good luck and I hope you are able to find a use for the computer. :)
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: untergrundbiber <untergrundbiber@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 8:20:22 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDCase 2
>
> thanks for the welcome
>
> The 12XX looks like this:
> http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/gridcase-2/index.html
>
> But my Gridcase has no modem-port at the back and another floppydisk-drive.
> Is label by the german subcompany "GRID Computer Systeme GmbH"
>
> I hope i can make photos in the next days
>
> Unfortunately the 4 ROM (RAM?) chip are missing.
>
> Sorry for my bad english i am, like my Gridcase, from Germany too :D
>
> Bye
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello and welcome to the group.
> > I do not know anything about that Grid. I have a 1520, 1550SX, and an older 1044. The 1520 is an 80286, the 1550SX is an 80386SX, and I think the 1044 might be a 8086 or another 286. I haven't played with the 1044.
> > Is the 1200 series rugged? Do they look like they are tough and can be in a harsh environment?
> > -Shawn
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: untergrundbiber <untergrundbiber@>
> > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 3:45:15 PM
> > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDCase 2
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > i found a GRiDCase 2 in the trash at work.
> > There is a label with "Grid Case 12XX" on the back
> > Have you any information about this?
> >
> > Bye
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:56:14 -0000
From: "ancomble"
Subject: rugged military mini laptop termite LT450N
Hello All,
i have here for sale a mini laptop termite LT450N runs under win 2000.
comes with new but death battery,2 l-ion cells can be changed for newones,battery is easy to open.
comes with powersupply and must have 12-24 volts.
price is 450 euro.
for picture's please mail to me at ancom@online.nl
i try also to uplode some picture's
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 17:39:40 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Introduction
Hi, All.
I'm a newbie here (thanks to the moderator for approving me), and just
wanted to introduce myself. I'm Tom Rutherford, living in Burton, Michigan.
I've been into computers off and on since about 1977, when I took a FORTRAN
course at Mott Community College, working on a little Xerox mainframe.
"Little", but more than I could put in my back pocket at the time. :-) It
filled a room, pretty much, but only had about 256K of main storage.
Anyway, I got most of a B.S. in Computer Science at the University of
Michigan-Flint from 1982 thru 1984, with a few credits that transferred from
Mott. I played with Commodore 8-bit junk from about '83 through '90, when I
bought my first 16-bit computer, an XT compatible built around a WaveMate
Bullet-286 motherboard. A few years later, I was given a GRiD 1520 lapful,
and she's intrigued me off and on ever since. Finding the CMOS battery has
been a challenge, but thanks to some files I downloaded from the group
website (thanks, guys!), I might be able to find the durn' thing, finally!
:-)
I like the GRiD. I wish my ThinkPad were built as tough as that thing! It
is tough, but I understand that some people have run over their GRiDs with
cars, and only scuffed the finish. I'm afraid that even though the ThinkPad
was built by Lenovo to IBM standards, it wouldn't stand up against that.
Anyway, just wanted to jump in and say hi.
-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."
(Reply-To address may be anti-spammed.)
Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 01:09:12 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Introduction
Welcome aboard, Tom,
Glad to have you here. If you have any other questions about your GRiD, we'll try to answer them as best we can. We've managed to dig up a fair amount of information on it.
Sincerely,
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, All.
>
> I'm a newbie here (thanks to the moderator for approving me), and just
> wanted to introduce myself. I'm Tom Rutherford, living in Burton, Michigan.
> I've been into computers off and on since about 1977, when I took a FORTRAN
> course at Mott Community College, working on a little Xerox mainframe.
> "Little", but more than I could put in my back pocket at the time. :-) It
> filled a room, pretty much, but only had about 256K of main storage.
> Anyway, I got most of a B.S. in Computer Science at the University of
> Michigan-Flint from 1982 thru 1984, with a few credits that transferred from
> Mott. I played with Commodore 8-bit junk from about '83 through '90, when I
> bought my first 16-bit computer, an XT compatible built around a WaveMate
> Bullet-286 motherboard. A few years later, I was given a GRiD 1520 lapful,
> and she's intrigued me off and on ever since. Finding the CMOS battery has
> been a challenge, but thanks to some files I downloaded from the group
> website (thanks, guys!), I might be able to find the durn' thing, finally!
> :-)
>
> I like the GRiD. I wish my ThinkPad were built as tough as that thing! It
> is tough, but I understand that some people have run over their GRiDs with
> cars, and only scuffed the finish. I'm afraid that even though the ThinkPad
> was built by Lenovo to IBM standards, it wouldn't stand up against that.
>
> Anyway, just wanted to jump in and say hi.
>
> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> "She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."
> (Reply-To address may be anti-spammed.)
>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 09:46:19 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Introduction
Thanks, Phil. I'll certainly do that. I am impressed by the amount of info
that I saw while perusing your files section.
-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."
(Reply-To address may be anti-spammed.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 9:09 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Introduction
> Welcome aboard, Tom,
>
> Glad to have you here. If you have any other questions about your GRiD,
we'll try to answer them as best we can. We've managed to dig up a fair
amount of information on it.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, All.
> >
> > I'm a newbie here (thanks to the moderator for approving me), and just
> > wanted to introduce myself. I'm Tom Rutherford, living in Burton,
Michigan.
> > I've been into computers off and on since about 1977, when I took a
FORTRAN
> > course at Mott Community College, working on a little Xerox mainframe.
> > "Little", but more than I could put in my back pocket at the time. :-)
It
> > filled a room, pretty much, but only had about 256K of main storage.
> > Anyway, I got most of a B.S. in Computer Science at the University of
> > Michigan-Flint from 1982 thru 1984, with a few credits that transferred
from
> > Mott. I played with Commodore 8-bit junk from about '83 through '90,
when I
> > bought my first 16-bit computer, an XT compatible built around a
WaveMate
> > Bullet-286 motherboard. A few years later, I was given a GRiD 1520
lapful,
> > and she's intrigued me off and on ever since. Finding the CMOS battery
has
> > been a challenge, but thanks to some files I downloaded from the group
> > website (thanks, guys!), I might be able to find the durn' thing,
finally!
> > :-)
> >
> > I like the GRiD. I wish my ThinkPad were built as tough as that thing!
It
> > is tough, but I understand that some people have run over their GRiDs
with
> > cars, and only scuffed the finish. I'm afraid that even though the
ThinkPad
> > was built by Lenovo to IBM standards, it wouldn't stand up against that.
> >
> > Anyway, just wanted to jump in and say hi.
> >
> > -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> > "She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."
> > (Reply-To address may be anti-spammed.)
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 20:52:41 -0000
From: "nitoriustupac337"
Subject: I have a...
I have a gridcase 1530 laptop given to me for free by a good ham buddy of mine. Problem is, I can not get it to work, i can't seem to figure out what is wrong with it, it shows the ram then says boot error. Need some help...
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 15:19:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] I have a...
nitoriustupac,
Do you have a bootable floopy disk? If so, insert the disk in the drive. When the Grid boots and gives you that error, hit F1. The computer should reboot and then boot from the floppy disk. You might have to do it a couple of times.
Let us know if that works for you and then we can give you more information.
Good luck,
-Shawn
----- Original Message ----
From: nitoriustupac337 <nitoriustupac337@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 9:52:41 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] I have a...
I have a gridcase 1530 laptop given to me for free by a good ham buddy of mine. Problem is, I can not get it to work, i can't seem to figure out what is wrong with it, it shows the ram then says boot error. Need some help...
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 21:53:43 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] I have a...
Have you tried it with a DOS floppy? If that works, see if you can access
the hard drive. It might just be a matter of "refreshing" DOS. It's been
so long since I've done it, though, I'd have to really shake up the ol' grey
matter in order to remember it. Good luck!
-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was her or the-- radio. Over."
----- Original Message -----
From: "nitoriustupac337" <nitoriustupac337@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] I have a...
>I have a gridcase 1530 laptop given to me for free by a good ham buddy of
>mine. Problem is, I can not get it to work, i can't seem to figure out what
>is wrong with it, it shows the ram then says boot error. Need some help...
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 14:16:11 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: I have a...
Hi, nitoriustupac337,
What Shawn and Tom have advised you so do will work. Chances are you are running into situation where the computer is telling you after the POST that it is unable to to boot due to 'configuration code 02'. This means that the CMOS battery inside the computer is dead, which only makes sense because those batteries only last a maximum of ten years, and the computer is more than 20 years old (more like 25). When the CMOS battery is active, there is information in its circuits that allow it to identify the hard drive. With the battery dead, the computer cannot recognize the hard drive, therefore it cannot see it and use it, so it appears like there is a hard drive failure or like the hard drive is not even there.
However, if the CMOS battery is depleted enough (which is what I think), sometimes the computer will not even see the floppy drive (this has happened to me a couple of times), since information about it is also stored in the CMOS circuits supported by the CMOS battery. Why this happens with some of these old GRiD's and not others is unclear. In any case, even if you cannot get the computer to boot from a floppy drive, the fix may still be quite simple.
It would require taking the computer partially apart and finding the CMOS battery and replacing it. Replacements for the battery are easy to do, but require you to do a little soldering work. The only drawback to this is if you have a computer that still uses a Dallas RTC real time clock chip, in which case, replacing the battery is going to be a significantly more difficult process.
If you really want to do this much work on the computer, look in the files section and you will see there a file I have uploaded called 'GRiDCASE 1500 DISASSEMBLY_REASSEMBLY Instructions.pdf. This file will tell you how to take the computer apart and put it back together again. You do not have to take the entire thing part though. You only need to remove the top cover, display screen, and the keyboard bevel (the cover around the keyboard), to get to the point to see the battery. If the battery is there, you can replace it quite easily. If not, then you have a Dallas RTC motherboard, which is more problematic.
Let us know how it goes, and if you need more help in resolving the problem.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "nitoriustupac337" <nitoriustupac337@...> wrote:
>
> I have a gridcase 1530 laptop given to me for free by a good ham buddy of mine. Problem is, I can not get it to work, i can't seem to figure out what is wrong with it, it shows the ram then says boot error. Need some help...
>
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 16:55:27 -0000
From: "jzmudzki"
Subject: Hdlook.exe don't work.
I have a Conner CFS420A Hard-drive witch i try to install in a GRiD 1520. I tried the Instructions i found in this Group.
I connected the Drive to all may PCs. The drive is detected by the BIOS and works. But when I start HDLOOK.EXE form MS-DOS6.22 prompt. The Displayed Values makes no sense. On one PC i get ~45000 Cylinders on another there are 0 Cylinders.
Can someone help me with this?
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 10:03:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Hdlook.exe don't work.
Hello Jacek. Yes, I can help you. Can you please post the contents of hdlook?
If the floppy drive is working, and if you have a floopy drive in your computer, you can type store it to floppy then transfer the file to your PC.
To do this, type 'hdlook.exe > a:\foo.txt'
Then, put the floppy in your PC. Then, copy and paste foo.txt to your PC.
Thanks,
-Shawn
P.S. Welcome to the group!
----- Original Message ----
From: jzmudzki <jacek.zmudzki@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 12:55:27 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Hdlook.exe don't work.
I have a Conner CFS420A Hard-drive witch i try to install in a GRiD 1520. I tried the Instructions i found in this Group.
I connected the Drive to all may PCs. The drive is detected by the BIOS and works. But when I start HDLOOK.EXE form MS-DOS6.22 prompt. The Displayed Values makes no sense. On one PC i get ~45000 Cylinders on another there are 0 Cylinders.
Can someone help me with this?
------------------------------------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 05:21:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Comment from new user
Comment:
"I found this groop via Google and it semms to be the best Grid group all over the world."
Yeah, well, what can I say? ;-) When you're already the best in the world, why look any place else?" ;-)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 03:05:37 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: busy
looks like everyone is working on the summer projects
see you all this fall after motorcycle weather goes away
dave
all mine now have dead battery's in the 1278 Dallas chips
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 03:50:30 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: busy
Hey, Dave,
Good to hear from you. In case you haven't seen it in recent postings, I have found a work around for the dead 1287's. It does require replacement of the 1287, something I have done myself now several times. If it's a 1287A, you should be able to short out the RESET and RCLR pins to ground, which will default the settings of the RTC and allow the computer to boot up with the new chip, just as Lawrence had detailed before. There may be some earlier motherboard revisions, however, that won't let you do this, especially if the chip you are replacing is the 1287 itself, not the 1287A. In that case, sometimes you can not replace the chip with another one without getting into the endless password loop. However, I have found a way to get around that in the BIOS code, which takes a very small change. You would have to burn new BIOS chips to do it. Anyway, the options are there if you wish to pursue them. Just FYI.
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
> looks like everyone is working on the summer projects
> see you all this fall after motorcycle weather goes away
> dave
>
> all mine now have dead battery's in the 1278 Dallas chips
>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 11:59:09 -0000
From: "groves_ca"
Subject: Two issues
I've got a Gridcase 1520, and two things are slowing me down from putting it to use.
First, I cannot format. Attempts to do so yield a "Division By Zero" error, regardless of what floppy I put in. An attempt to format the hard drive came to the same. This happens before any "Are you sure?" message comes up. I am running MS-DOS 3.2 on the machine.
Second, I cannot easily transfer information to or from the device. I have a ZIP drive, but unless I can get DOS 4.0 on the machine - which requires formatting floppies, or some other trick - I cannot use it. Serial transfer is also out, due to the fact that the modem gets the COM port on this model, and a software command is needed to toggle to the other COM port - which software I do not have, and cannot transfer to the computer if I did. Attempts to format floppy disks to 720k on other machines fail.
Any suggestions?
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 10:24:32 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Two issues
I haven't looked at it in ages, but I think my 1520 has a 1.44MB floppy
drive. That may be your problem, although the "division by zero" error
sounds pretty funky. You might try DR DOS on it. I think they're up to
7.3something now. It was free for a long time, but now, a company called
DRDOS, Inc. owns it, and they want $25 a copy. No support. If you want to
buy it out, it'll cost you $25K. (No, I didn't think that was a great idea,
either. <g>) Anyway, details are here: http://www.drdos.com/ Good luck!
-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."
----- Original Message -----
From: "groves_ca" <the.tail.kinker@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 7:59 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Two issues
> I've got a Gridcase 1520, and two things are slowing me down from putting
> it to use.
>
> First, I cannot format. Attempts to do so yield a "Division By Zero"
> error, regardless of what floppy I put in. An attempt to format the hard
> drive came to the same. This happens before any "Are you sure?" message
> comes up. I am running MS-DOS 3.2 on the machine.
>
> Second, I cannot easily transfer information to or from the device. I
> have a ZIP drive, but unless I can get DOS 4.0 on the machine - which
> requires formatting floppies, or some other trick - I cannot use it.
> Serial transfer is also out, due to the fact that the modem gets the COM
> port on this model, and a software command is needed to toggle to the
> other COM port - which software I do not have, and cannot transfer to the
> computer if I did. Attempts to format floppy disks to 720k on other
> machines fail.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 03:45:08 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Two issues
Hi, Tim,
If I read your post correctly, you can at least boot up to a C:\ prompt. The "divide by zero" error has to be coming from the specific code in the OS software running the format command. Therefore I think your MSDOS 3.2 may have suffered some corruption. Because it is happened to both your floppy and hard drives, I would doubt a hardware issue. Unless you are specifically wedded to MS-DOS 3.2, I would strongly recommend that you upgrade to MSDOS 6.22. It will run well on your machine. Otherwise, you would have to find MSDOS 3.2 on the net and download it and reinstall it on your machine. I suggest Vetusware at:
http://vetusware.com/download/MS-DOS%206.22%20Setup%20Floppy%20Images%20_VMWare_%206.22/?id=5019
This site features "abandonware", and the full setup of MSDOS 6.22 is there. Technically, MS does not give tyhe full version away, and you can find it for sale for about $30 or so. But this site lets you have it for fee. YOu can probably find MSDOS 3.2 there as well if you wish. Now if If you are not confortable with that, you can get the stepup files (basically an upgrade on any previous MDSDOS versions)from Microsoft itself at the following address.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=96cc3197-b7e5-4b31-badb-ddaac771295f&DisplayLang=en
Of course, you will need to download and create the floppies on another machine. But once you do, you should be able to load the disks in your 1520 and upgrade the OS. I think that should solve your problem.
As to your second problem, I would not recommend DOS 4.0. It was actually quite unstable which is why they went to DOS 5.0 very quickly. In any case. DOS 6.22 will be able to handle things with your ZIP drive in terms of being to get the proper drivers installed to access it, and will do it better than DOS 4.0
Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "groves_ca" <the.tail.kinker@...> wrote:
>
> I've got a Gridcase 1520, and two things are slowing me down from putting it to use.
>
> First, I cannot format. Attempts to do so yield a "Division By Zero" error, regardless of what floppy I put in. An attempt to format the hard drive came to the same. This happens before any "Are you sure?" message comes up. I am running MS-DOS 3.2 on the machine.
>
> Second, I cannot easily transfer information to or from the device. I have a ZIP drive, but unless I can get DOS 4.0 on the machine - which requires formatting floppies, or some other trick - I cannot use it. Serial transfer is also out, due to the fact that the modem gets the COM port on this model, and a software command is needed to toggle to the other COM port - which software I do not have, and cannot transfer to the computer if I did. Attempts to format floppy disks to 720k on other machines fail.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:31:03 -0400
From: Tail Kinker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Two issues
Tom Rutherford wrote:
>
>
> I haven't looked at it in ages, but I think my 1520 has a 1.44MB floppy
> drive. That may be your problem, although the "division by zero" error
> sounds pretty funky. You might try DR DOS on it. I think they're up to
> 7.3something now. It was free for a long time, but now, a company called
> DRDOS, Inc. owns it, and they want $25 a copy. No support. If you want to
> buy it out, it'll cost you $25K. (No, I didn't think that was a great
> idea,
> either. <g>) Anyway, details are here: http://www.drdos.com/ Good luck!
>
No, I've confirmed that my 1520 has only a 720k. If I have a spare
1.44m kicking about, can I just install it, or will the Grid have a cow?
As to DR DOS, or any other DOS, I would first need a 1.44m floppy in the
Grid, or be able to reformat 1.44 floppies to 720k on the Grid itself.
My only other computer with a floppy has an external USB floppy, that
can't format down to 720k.
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 04:20:26 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Two issues
> No, I've confirmed that my 1520 has only a 720k. If I have a spare
> 1.44m kicking about, can I just install it, or will the Grid have a cow?
>
> As to DR DOS, or any other DOS, I would first need a 1.44m floppy in >the Grid, or be able to reformat 1.44 floppies to 720k on the Grid >itself. My only other computer with a floppy has an external USB >floppy, that can't format down to 720k.
If you can find a old 1520 that's busted, you can probably salvage the 1.44Mb floppy drive off of it. The 1520 and its BIOS will be able to recognize it just fine. I have several 1520's whihc all have 1.44 Mb drives.
However, your external 1.44 Mb drive should be able to format a 720K just fine. That's not a hardware problem. That's a software problem. You have to use a formatting utility that has an option that will allow you to do that.
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:40:19 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Two issues
> Tom Rutherford wrote:
>>
>>
>> I haven't looked at it in ages, but I think my 1520 has a 1.44MB floppy
>> drive. That may be your problem, although the "division by zero" error
>> sounds pretty funky. You might try DR DOS on it. I think they're up to
>> 7.3something now. It was free for a long time, but now, a company called
>> DRDOS, Inc. owns it, and they want $25 a copy. No support. If you want to
>> buy it out, it'll cost you $25K. (No, I didn't think that was a great
>> idea,
>> either. <g>) Anyway, details are here: http://www.drdos.com/ Good luck!
>>
> No, I've confirmed that my 1520 has only a 720k. If I have a spare
> 1.44m kicking about, can I just install it, or will the Grid have a cow?
You can try, but I don't know if it'll fit. I haven't had mine apart yet to
verify how standard the drives are.
> As to DR DOS, or any other DOS, I would first need a 1.44m floppy in the
> Grid, or be able to reformat 1.44 floppies to 720k on the Grid itself.
> My only other computer with a floppy has an external USB floppy, that
> can't format down to 720k.
Actually, it probably can, but you have to *start* with a double-density
disk. If you *can* format a 1.44MB disk to 720K, it could do weird things.
The media, as I understand it, is different with the two types of disks.
You can try to cover the hole in the upper-left corner of the 1.44M disk;
use a piece of black electrical tape, and cover both sides. The drive
should detect it as a 720K disk, but again, the media being different, it
might be weird.
-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 09:47:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Two issues
I *thought* my 1520 had 720k drives, but I found that it read my 1.44M DOS 5.0
and DOS 6.22 disks with no problems.
TK: On a computer with a floppy, make sure there is a notch on the left side of
the disk. If there is, format the disk with 'format a: /f:1.44'
Store a file on it and see if the Grid will see it.
Perhaps my disk drives are newer, but I know they can read 1.44M floppies.
-Shawn