Yahoo! Message number: 2000
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:15:38 -0000
From: "engrken04"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1520 Available

Nick,
If you decide to sell it as parts, I (and probably others) would like to get into the bidding for the CP-3044.

Ken S.
----------------

> > It is a Conner CP-3044. The drive will be formatted, primarily so others will not see my horrible config.sys and autoexec.bat settings, never quite recovered from the Windows transition... It may be of importance to know that any parts from the 1520 would be shipped out from PA 19525.

Yahoo! Message number: 2001
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:28:49 -0000
From: "nick_zravre"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1520 Available

The dallas chip has two leads attached to it for a battery, though they be attached by cyanoacrylate glue and electrical tape, they are there, and do have good connections they haven't come off yet. The internal battery is disconnected, so the computer will start and boot to the hdd. The unit is dusty as it has been under my workbench for a a year or so. I still have the case that came with the laptop if you want it.
I will consider pretty much any price over $20.00USD with shipping.

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@...m, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> Judging from what you said, I could actually repair this unit, except for one thing, maybe. I have several dead ones I use for spare parts, and so I have an extra hinge and extra keyboard I could put into it. However, the Dallas RTC chip will be a big problem. ON the 1530's you can replace the RTC with the 12880 that is still available, but this doesn't work on the 1520's. The BIOS is still too primitive and if you try to replace the chip it wil lock the boot up into an irreversible mode of asking for a password BIOS, for which of course, there isn't one, and you can't ever boot it up. So unless you can repair the old one already there, the MoBo is shot as far as that particular problem is concerned. However, I could possibly do it. How much are you asking for the entire unit?
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "nick_zravre" <GBabecki@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, KenS <engrken@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Rick:
> > >
> > > Which model of hard drive does it contain?  I assume it is a Conner.
> > >
> > > Ken S.
> > >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > It is a Conner CP-3044. The drive will be formatted, primarily so others will not see my horrible config.sys and autoexec.bat settings, never quite recovered from the Windows transition... It may be of importance to know that any parts from the 1520 would be shipped out from PA 19525.
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2002
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 18:20:13 -0000
From: "nick_zravre"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1520 Available

If Jeriddian doesn't want it, or if I can make a larger profit I'll part if out.

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "engrken04" <engrken@...> wrote:
>
> Nick,
> If you decide to sell it as parts, I (and probably others) would like to get into the bidding for the CP-3044.
>
> Ken S.
> ----------------
>
> > > It is a Conner CP-3044. The drive will be formatted, primarily so others will not see my horrible config.sys and autoexec.bat settings, never quite recovered from the Windows transition... It may be of importance to know that any parts from the 1520 would be shipped out from PA 19525.
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2003
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 03:20:05 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1520 Available

Okay Nick,

I'm willing to give you $50 plus shipping for it, lock, stock, and barrel

Phil



--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "nick_zravre" <GBabecki@...> wrote:
>
> If Jeriddian doesn't want it, or if I can make a larger profit I'll part if out.
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "engrken04" <engrken@> wrote:
> >
> > Nick,
> > If you decide to sell it as parts, I (and probably others) would like to get into the bidding for the CP-3044.
> >
> > Ken S.
> > ----------------
> >
> > > > It is a Conner CP-3044. The drive will be formatted, primarily so others will not see my horrible config.sys and autoexec.bat settings, never quite recovered from the Windows transition... It may be of importance to know that any parts from the 1520 would be shipped out from PA 19525.
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2004
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:54:40 -0000
From: "nick_zravre"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1520 Available

Well, I would be willing to accept that offer, it is about what I payed originally. First, however, do you live in the US? Also, I would only be able to accept a US Postal Money Order. You can contact me at GBabecki(NOSPAM)@dejazzd(NOSPAM).com


--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> Okay Nick,
>
> I'm willing to give you $50 plus shipping for it, lock, stock, and barrel
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "nick_zravre" <GBabecki@> wrote:
> >
> > If Jeriddian doesn't want it, or if I can make a larger profit I'll part if out.
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "engrken04" <engrken@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Nick,
> > > If you decide to sell it as parts, I (and probably others) would like to get into the bidding for the CP-3044.
> > >
> > > Ken S.
> > > ----------------
> > >
> > > > > It is a Conner CP-3044. The drive will be formatted, primarily so others will not see my horrible config.sys and autoexec.bat settings, never quite recovered from the Windows transition... It may be of importance to know that any parts from the 1520 would be shipped out from PA 19525.
> > >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2005
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 04:30:25 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1520 Available

Nick,

I've sent you a reply, assuming you take out the (NOSPAM) parts of the name. You should receive it.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "nick_zravre" <GBabecki@...> wrote:
>
> Well, I would be willing to accept that offer, it is about what I payed originally. First, however, do you live in the US? Also, I would only be able to accept a US Postal Money Order. You can contact me at GBabecki(NOSPAM)@dejazzd(NOSPAM).com
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> >
> > Okay Nick,
> >
> > I'm willing to give you $50 plus shipping for it, lock, stock, and barrel
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "nick_zravre" <GBabecki@> wrote:
> > >
> > > If Jeriddian doesn't want it, or if I can make a larger profit I'll part if out.
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "engrken04" <engrken@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Nick,
> > > > If you decide to sell it as parts, I (and probably others) would like to get into the bidding for the CP-3044.
> > > >
> > > > Ken S.
> > > > ----------------
> > > >
> > > > > > It is a Conner CP-3044. The drive will be formatted, primarily so others will not see my horrible config.sys and autoexec.bat settings, never quite recovered from the Windows transition... It may be of importance to know that any parts from the 1520 would be shipped out from PA 19525.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2006
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 22:50:30 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Some further information on the Dallas RTC chip.

In my attempts to replace the Dallas RTC chip in some computers, I never got it to work on the 1520, but it did work on the 1530. I have since found the following info from the Dallas Semiconductor web site:

24-pin DIP Real-Time Clock (RTC) plus RAM. Designed to be a direct replacement for the DS1287, BQ3287MT, M48T86, TH6887, OEC12C887, et al. The DS12887 is identical in form fit and function to the DS1287 and has an additional 64 bytes of general-purpose RAM.

NOTE: The DS12887 CANNOT replace the DS1287 in 80286-based computers.

This product is an ESD-class device. It cannot be returned for exchange or credit if the package has been opened. Please read the RTC Module FAQ in its entirety BEFORE ordering or replacing an RTC module.

Replacing the DS1287/DS12887 Real-Time Clock in a Personal Computer

Will replacing the clock module fix my PC?
Unfortunately, replacing your clock module, even with the exact part number, does not guarantee that the PC will work afterwards. Here are some of the issues:
The DS1287 is obsolete. In many cases, a DS12887 will replace it. However, on some systems, the BIOS or chip set will access the wrong address partition in the DS12887. In those cases, the system will not work.

Some PCs, after replacing the clock, will not properly initialize the new one. Apparently, some BIOS versions expect the RTC to be partially initialized before it is placed on the motherboard. Only the manufacturer of the motherboard will know how the clock needs to be initialized. PCs with marginal power supplies, especially if they have a large number of drives, cards and/or memory, may cause the new clock to fail. The clock can fail immediately, or within a few days or weeks.

In addition, you must be careful when replacing the module. If you insert the module backwards, or bend a pin while inserting it, you can damage the motherboard and/or the module. Improper handling also can cause ESD damage. The power should always be off when replacing the module. If you are in any way unsure of what you are doing, you should have a trained technician do the work.

Yahoo! Message number: 2007
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 23:46:13 -0000
From: "zentaro04"
Subject: GRIDCASE 1550SX and cmos battery

Hi All
I just got a Gridcase 1550sx, and at the power up
it show me the following message...

Phoenix 80386 ROM BIOS Plus version1.10 00
640 K base 01024 Extended
Diskette drive 0 seek failure
automatic configuration failure
Hard disk failure
Invalid config information
Floppy driva A failed initialization test
strike F1
I read the old messages about the grid 1550sx and I found that the problem probably is the cmos battery dead.
I opened it and I found ther is no battery inside, only a 9volt battery clip and a small broken fuse attached to the cable.
Which kind of battery I have to look to replace the old one?
I tried with two AA rechargeable battery but nothing is happened
thank you Andrea

Yahoo! Message number: 2008
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 00:18:52 -0000
From: "zentaro04"
Subject: GRIDCASE 1550SX and cmos battery

Hi,
I removed the hard disk and I found the cmos battery! is a 3,6 volt lithium battery. and the battery clip?
Andrea

Yahoo! Message number: 2009
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 04:12:21 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRIDCASE 1550SX and cmos battery

Hi, Andrea,

It sounds like a tandiran battery. It's easy enough to replace. Let us know if solves the problem with the boot up.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "zentaro04" <zentaro.cane@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I removed the hard disk and I found the cmos battery! is a 3,6 volt lithium battery. and the battery clip?
> Andrea
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2010
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 19:43:06 +0200
From: Andrea
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRIDCASE 1550SX and cmos battery

Hi, Phil
I found the battery to my local electronic store
but i don't know wich kind of battery I have to look for
the 9v clip.
Andrea
This is an old post on a rob's grid board
Posted by Helmut S. on May 01, 19103 at 14:36:30:

Hi friends,
I have a Gridcase 1550sx and I don't know the Bios PW anymore (didn't 
use it for years). The BIOS is version 1.10 00 (10/11/90) from Phoenix
I tried Bios PS cracker from the internet. But I can't get out from the 
screen where it asks for the PW. I don't know how to get to DOS in order 
to run the cracker SW.
I tried also to remove the AC power/rech. battery, 7,2 VDC rech. battery 
inside the Grid and the 3.5 V Lithium battery, also inside.


jeriddian wrote:
>
>
> Hi, Andrea,
>
> It sounds like a tandiran battery. It's easy enough to replace. Let us 
> know if solves the problem with the boot up.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, "zentaro04" 
> <zentaro.cane@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I removed the hard disk and I found the cmos battery! is a 3,6 volt 
> lithium battery. and the battery clip?
> > Andrea
> >
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2011
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 16:13:42 -0700
From: jim s
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRIDCASE 1550SX and cmos battery

Andrea,
I am concerned you are assuming that the battery is 9v.  It was common 
for one to have a 2 aa cell holder (radio shack) with the same 
connection, which could be 3 v to attach to that.

I would wait for a reply from someone here who knows before attaching 
anything though.
Jim

Andrea wrote:
> Hi, Phil
> I found the battery to my local electronic store
> but i don't know wich kind of battery I have to look for
> the 9v clip.
> Andrea
>   

Yahoo! Message number: 2012
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 16:14:55 -0700
From: jim s
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRIDCASE 1550SX and cmos battery

Andrea,
I am concerned you are assuming that the battery is 9v.  It was common 
for one to have a 2 aa cell holder (radio shack) with the same 
connection, which could be 3 v to attach to that.  Obviously you could 
fry something with a 9v battery.

I would wait for a reply from someone here who knows before attaching 
anything to that connector.  I don't have a grid, or a system that takes 
both the lithium battery referred to, as well as one that attaches to a 
clip as you describe.  My experience is that you get one or the other 
but not both.
Jim

Andrea wrote:
> Hi, Phil
> I found the battery to my local electronic store
> but i don't know wich kind of battery I have to look for
> the 9v clip.
> Andrea
>   

Yahoo! Message number: 2013
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 07:49:47 -0000
From: "yetanotheridea"
Subject: Experiences with a GRiDCase3 EXP

I just received my first GRiD laptop in the form of a GRiDCase3 EXP. The
EXP part refers to the expansion bay which is screwed onto the bottom of
the laptop. I removed the expansion bay and it has a full-length card
installed which contains some sort of device monitoring board containing
a Z80B and 8530SCC, relays, and multiple RS-232 interfaces.

This machine came with an external floppy drive (720K) but no floppy
cable, does anyone have the pinout for the DB-25 connectors (on either
end)? - I notice that pin 1 is blocked off on both floppy connectors.
This variant has the red-plasma screen, an internal hard drive, and no
internal floppy.

Needless to say the GRiDCase3 did not boot on arrival, but after
removing the hard drive cable it starts up from ROM into MS-DOS 3.21

After scouring the messages here and the remnants of the heavily spammed
GRiD forum at www.pd.com/gb15xx/wwwboard.html
I have some questions that I have not found (or overlooked) an answer
for:

1. If the battery is dead so the drive geometry cannot be recognized
should the drive still start up? that is if my drive is ok should I hear
it spinning? I am not sure if these early GRiDs have power up control or
not. At this stage I assume no noise from the hard drive tells me that
it is completely dead (from stiction or worse).

2. I have one EPROM below the screen labeled GRiD-OS COMM.CODE 3.1.6
12/85 300516-00 - is the "COMM" part referring to "common" or
"communications"? for example do I have something like GRiDTerm perhaps?
or is it just common code for GRiD-OS?

3. After startup I get the A> prompt and can start the GRiD-OS emulator
via "GRID.EXE" and Integrid 3.3.0 starts and I can move around the
menus, however without any local storage it is not possible to save
documents and there are no additional programs. If I download Programs
from this group and manage to get the floppy drive working I assume
placing Programs on a disk will allow the various GRiD-OS applications
(like GWrite, GPlan etc) to work?

Does anyone have a copy of GRiD-BASIC to play with please?

cheers.

Yahoo! Message number: 2014
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 07:38:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Experiences with a GRiDCase3 EXP
text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hello, Nigel.
Glad to know you received a Grid and it's partially working.

Let's see if I can answer some of your questions.
#1.  Yes, the drive should still spin even if the internal battery is dead.  Of course, it won't be recognized by the BIOS, but it still should spin.
#2.  I don't know, but I assume that it means "common."
#3.  I'll look to see if I have Grid Basic.  However, GW-Basic will probably work.  I think I have a copy of that around.  If I do, I'll be sure to get it to you.

Good luck,
-Shawn




________________________________
From: yetanotheridea <nigel.d.williams@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 3:49:47 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Experiences with a GRiDCase3 EXP

I just received my first GRiD laptop in the form of a GRiDCase3 EXP. The
EXP part refers to the expansion bay which is screwed onto the bottom of
the laptop. I removed the expansion bay and it has a full-length card
installed which contains some sort of device monitoring board containing
a Z80B and 8530SCC, relays, and multiple RS-232 interfaces.

This machine came with an external floppy drive (720K) but no floppy
cable, does anyone have the pinout for the DB-25 connectors (on either
end)? - I notice that pin 1 is blocked off on both floppy connectors.
This variant has the red-plasma screen, an internal hard drive, and no
internal floppy.

Needless to say the GRiDCase3 did not boot on arrival, but after
removing the hard drive cable it starts up from ROM into MS-DOS 3.21

After scouring the messages here and the remnants of the heavily spammed
GRiD forum at www.pd.com/gb15xx/wwwboard.html
I have some questions that I have not found (or overlooked) an answer
for:

1. If the battery is dead so the drive geometry cannot be recognized
should the drive still start up? that is if my drive is ok should I hear
it spinning? I am not sure if these early GRiDs have power up control or
not. At this stage I assume no noise from the hard drive tells me that
it is completely dead (from stiction or worse).

2. I have one EPROM below the screen labeled GRiD-OS COMM.CODE 3.1.6
12/85 300516-00 - is the "COMM" part referring to "common" or
"communications"? for example do I have something like GRiDTerm perhaps?
or is it just common code for GRiD-OS?

3. After startup I get the A> prompt and can start the GRiD-OS emulator
via "GRID.EXE" and Integrid 3.3.0 starts and I can move around the
menus, however without any local storage it is not possible to save
documents and there are no additional programs. If I download Programs
from this group and manage to get the floppy drive working I assume
placing Programs on a disk will allow the various GRiD-OS applications
(like GWrite, GPlan etc) to work?

Does anyone have a copy of GRiD-BASIC to play with please?

cheers.





------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2015
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 07:37:48 -0000
From: "yetanotheridea"
Subject: GRiD product list started
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I have started to construct a list of all the GRiD products at the link
below:
GRiD product list
<http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=rvh_1roHSsEXEkJSI9tO9gw&output=h&#92;
tml>

There is very little information anywhere on what they made, so I have
extracted model numbers from posts to the GRiDBoard and this group so it
is likely incomplete.

I understand GRiD also released desktop computers too, and had a range
of "server" products (their GRiDCentral system?).

I'll keep adding as I find more out but at least it captures what is
easily found.

Additions, corrections, welcome.

Yahoo! Message number: 2016
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 07:23:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD product list started
text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Way cool, Nigel.
Or maybe you'd say "brilliant!" :-)
FYI: The 1550SX was a 80386SX.
-Shawn




________________________________
From: yetanotheridea <nigel.d.williams@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 3:37:48 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD product list started

  

I have started to construct a list of all the GRiD products at the link below:

GRiD product list
>
There is very little information anywhere on what they made, so I have extracted model numbers from posts to the GRiDBoard and this group so it is likely incomplete.

I understand GRiD also released desktop computers too, and had a range of "server" products (their GRiDCentral system?).

I'll keep adding as I find more out but at least it captures what is easily found.

Additions, corrections, welcome.

Yahoo! Message number: 2017
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:33:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD product list started
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

That's quite commendable, but you really should separate the Grids into those made by the Grid company,  those made by Tandy after it took over,  and those made by AST.
They were really different computers from the original Grids.. For example the Grid 1450, DEC 320p, and a Tandy LT whose model I can't remember were all made by a japanese company, and their parts were interchangeable. The only difference being the logos. Also they were made of plastic rather than the magnesium cases Grid produced.
 
Lawrence

--- On Wed, 7/22/09, yetanotheridea <nigel.d.williams@...> wrote:


From: yetanotheridea <nigel.d.williams@...>
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD product list started
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Received: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 2:37 AM


 



I have started to construct a list of all the GRiD products at the link below:

GRiD product list

There is very little information anywhere on what they made, so I have extracted model numbers from posts to the GRiDBoard and this group so it is likely incomplete.

I understand GRiD also released desktop computers too, and had a range of "server" products (their GRiDCentral system?).

I'll keep adding as I find more out but at least it captures what is easily found.

Additions, corrections, welcome.

















      __________________________________________________________________
The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier.  Optimized for Yahoo!  Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/

Yahoo! Message number: 2018
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:51:33 -0000
From: "yetanotheridea"
Subject: Re: GRiD product list started

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...>
wrote:
> ...separate the Grids into those made by the Grid company,
> those made by Tandy after it took over,  and those made by AST.

I have added an OEM column. For GRiD's history OEM almost captures the
idea of who originally made it, although I understand even GRiD did not
actually manufacturer anything, they were an integrator and outsourced
to various suppliers for the subsystems.

> ...the Grid 1450, DEC 320p, and a Tandy LT whose model I can't
> remember were all made by a japanese company

I need to establish the time sequence of products and then mark the
transition between GRiD->Tandy->AST. We are currently missing detail of
when the products were released (Year column).

I have added your comments to the document, if you have more detail
please post.

Yahoo! Message number: 2019
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:58:32 -0000
From: "yetanotheridea"
Subject: Re: GRiD product list started
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "yetanotheridea"
<nigel.d.williams@...> wrote:
> I need to establish the time sequence of products and then mark the
> transition between GRiD->Tandy->AST.

I placed the history from griduk.com into the list (see Official history
link at the top of the document). This helps lump together model series
for some of them by year of release.

GRiD Product List
<http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=rvh_1roHSsEXEkJSI9tO9gw&output=h&#92;
tml>

Yahoo! Message number: 2020
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:20:11 -0000
From: "anarchyoz"
Subject: GRiD Case case wanted.

Hi guys,

I hope this doesn't break any rules. I am looking for a Grid case laptop in pretty much any condition. If you have a dead'un you don't want/need I will happily take it off your hands.

My slightly crazy plan is to use it to house a more modern laptops internals. Has anyone done this before? someone has to have, no?...................................seriously?

 If there is an unloved working unit I'd love to have one of those too.

Yahoo! Message number: 2021
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:46:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD Case case wanted.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Anarchyoz,
You're not breaking any rules.  Has any one done this before?  Not that I'm aware of.  I definately see some challenges in getting it to fit.  But, nothing is impossible given enough time and money.
Good luck,
-Shawn

 



________________________________
From: anarchyoz <n.bucher@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 7:20:11 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD Case case wanted.

Hi guys, 

I hope this doesn't break any rules. I am looking for a Grid case laptop in pretty much any condition. If you have a dead'un you don't want/need I will happily take it off your hands.

My slightly crazy plan is to use it to house a more modern laptops internals. Has anyone done this before? someone has to have, no?...................................seriously?

If there is an unloved working unit I'd love to have one of those too.



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2022
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:26:16 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiD Case case wanted.

Hi, anarchyoz,

I would say it simply isn't a good idea to try and house another laptop inside an old GRiD Housing. It just isn't designed for it. You'd be better off trying to have a case made for the laptop you want to protect, or maybe buy (if you have the money)one of the newer UK Grids if you can even get one ( I don't think you can).

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "anarchyoz" <n.bucher@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I hope this doesn't break any rules. I am looking for a Grid case laptop in pretty much any condition. If you have a dead'un you don't want/need I will happily take it off your hands.
>
> My slightly crazy plan is to use it to house a more modern laptops internals. Has anyone done this before? someone has to have, no?...................................seriously?
>
>  If there is an unloved working unit I'd love to have one of those too.
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2023
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:32:12 -0400
From: robert
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD Case case wanted.
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

lookup "steampunk laptop" on google. your gonna see some real cool
repackings of laptops.

robert

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 9:26 PM, jeriddian <Jeriddian@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi, anarchyoz,
>
> I would say it simply isn't a good idea to try and house another laptop
> inside an old GRiD Housing. It just isn't designed for it. You'd be better
> off trying to have a case made for the laptop you want to protect, or maybe
> buy (if you have the money)one of the newer UK Grids if you can even get one
> ( I don't think you can).
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com <RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "anarchyoz" <n.bucher@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > I hope this doesn't break any rules. I am looking for a Grid case laptop
> in pretty much any condition. If you have a dead'un you don't want/need I
> will happily take it off your hands.
> >
> > My slightly crazy plan is to use it to house a more modern laptops
> internals. Has anyone done this before? someone has to have,
> no?...................................seriously?
> >
> > If there is an unloved working unit I'd love to have one of those too.
> >
>
>
>



--


73 de ke4mcl
"contesting on ham radio is like racing ford pintos, win or lose, other
people are still gonna laugh at you!"

Yahoo! Message number: 2024
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:42:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD Case case wanted.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Amazing!!
The "Datamancer" is is a piece of art!  How did he make the keys?  Amazing!
-Shawn




________________________________
From: robert <dcat4955@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 9:32:12 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD Case case wanted.



lookup "steampunk laptop" on google. your gonna see some real cool repackings of laptops.

robert


On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 9:26 PM, jeriddian <Jeriddian@...> wrote:

 
>Hi, anarchyoz,
>
>I would say it simply isn't a good idea to try and house another laptop inside an old GRiD Housing. It just isn't designed for it. You'd be better off trying to have a case made for the laptop you want to protect, or maybe buy (if you have the money)one of the newer UK Grids if you can even get one ( I don't think you can).
>
>Phil
>
>--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "anarchyoz" <n.bucher@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> I hope this doesn't break any rules. I am looking for a Grid case laptop in pretty much any condition. If you have a dead'un you don't want/need I will happily take it off your hands.
>>
>> My slightly crazy plan is to use it to house a more modern laptops internals. Has anyone done this before? someone has to have, no?...................................seriously?
>>
>> If there is an unloved working unit I'd love to have one of those too.
>>
>
>


--


73 de ke4mcl
"contesting on ham radio is like racing ford pintos, win or lose, other people are still gonna laugh at you!"

Yahoo! Message number: 2025
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:16:39 -0400
From: robert
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD Case case wanted.
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 some guys recycle keys off antique typewriters

Yahoo! Message number: 2026
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:52:39 -0000
From: "ansoneinstein@..."
Subject: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

Hi all,

I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the memcheck I got the following warning:

     Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time

This was followed by:

     Strike the F1 key to continue

At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the cursor blinking.
It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.

The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the next ACM meeting.

Any help would be appreciated,
Thanks,
Anson

Yahoo! Message number: 2027
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:25:30 -0500
From: Charles Ford
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

Anson:

After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a floppy.
Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver known as 
the three finger salute.)
This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a default 
device table.

The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1> the 
system should boot normally.
Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.


ansoneinstein@... wrote:
>  
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the 
> memcheck I got the following warning:
>
> Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
>
> This was followed by:
>
> Strike the F1 key to continue
>
> At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the 
> cursor blinking.
> It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
>
> The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the 
> failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the 
> next ACM meeting.
>
> Any help would be appreciated,
> Thanks,
> Anson
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2028
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 05:25:27 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

Dear Anson,

Try what Charles has recommended, but if your computer still fails to boot up, you may consider replacing the internal Lithium Ion battery (depending upon which motherboard version you have). There have been occasions when I bought a unit and got it in the mail and the thing booted up fine the first couple of times, and then it failed after that to boot up. The internal batteries were only meant to last ten years or so, and of course these computers are more than 25 years old, so when you buy one with the original internal battery, it's going to be so weak that it will either be completely dead, or have only enough charge for one or two more boots. Now if you have a motherboard version where the battery is the outside tandiran battery, that's not to hard to replace. However, if you have a computer MoBo with a Dallas Real Time Chip in it, then things are going to be complicated, because the battery is inside the chip itself, and it is a chore to replace the battery. You can't replace the chip, so you have to do a little surgery on it to replace the battery to get it working again. If this is what you have, and are interested in doing this, reply, and I will go into more detail. Best of luck to you.

Phil
--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@..." <signupae@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the memcheck I got the following warning:
>
>      Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
>
> This was followed by:
>
>      Strike the F1 key to continue
>
> At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the cursor blinking.
> It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
>
> The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the next ACM meeting.
>
> Any help would be appreciated,
> Thanks,
> Anson
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2029
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:51:16 -0000
From: "ansoneinstein@..."
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

Ok,
I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?

I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.

I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the batt.
I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured that it still worked.
I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much easier to replace the battery.


--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@...> wrote:
>
> Anson:
>
> After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a floppy.
> Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver known as
> the three finger salute.)
> This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a default
> device table.
>
> The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1> the
> system should boot normally.
> Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
>
>
> ansoneinstein@... wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > memcheck I got the following warning:
> >
> > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> >
> > This was followed by:
> >
> > Strike the F1 key to continue
> >
> > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > cursor blinking.
> > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> >
> > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > next ACM meeting.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated,
> > Thanks,
> > Anson
> >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2030
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:43:39 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

Dear Anson.

You can buy the tadiran batteries online at most battery outlet sites. It's quite inexpensive.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@...m, "ansoneinstein@..." <signupae@...> wrote:
>
> Ok,
> I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
>
> I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
>
> I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the batt.
> I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured that it still worked.
> I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much easier to replace the battery.
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> >
> > Anson:
> >
> > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a floppy.
> > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver known as
> > the three finger salute.)
> > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a default
> > device table.
> >
> > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1> the
> > system should boot normally.
> > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> >
> >
> > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > >
> > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > >
> > > This was followed by:
> > >
> > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > >
> > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > cursor blinking.
> > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > >
> > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > next ACM meeting.
> > >
> > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > Thanks,
> > > Anson
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2031
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:37:35 -0500
From: Charles Ford
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

Anson:

Do you hear the HDD startup,  whir and rattle?
ansoneinstein@... wrote:

>  
>
> Ok,
> I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying 
> to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
>
> I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I 
> don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
>
> I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me 
> trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the 
> battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the 
> batt.
> I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't 
> think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured 
> that it still worked.
> I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably 
> get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much 
> easier to replace the battery.
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford 
> <charlieford1@...> wrote:
> >
> > Anson:
> >
> > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a 
> floppy.
> > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver 
> known as
> > the three finger salute.)
> > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a 
> default
> > device table.
> >
> > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1> 
> the
> > system should boot normally.
> > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> >
> >
> > ansoneinstein@... wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > >
> > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > >
> > > This was followed by:
> > >
> > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > >
> > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > cursor blinking.
> > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > >
> > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > next ACM meeting.
> > >
> > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > Thanks,
> > > Anson
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2032
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 02:03:30 -0000
From: "ansoneinstein@..."
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

I'm going to try that and hopefully that fixes the problems. But then again, it might still be the hard drive.

I'll check back in a while.

Anson

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Anson.
>
> You can buy the tadiran batteries online at most battery outlet sites. It's quite inexpensive.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> >
> > Ok,
> > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> >
> > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> >
> > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the batt.
> > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured that it still worked.
> > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much easier to replace the battery.
> >
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Anson:
> > >
> > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a floppy.
> > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver known as
> > > the three finger salute.)
> > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a default
> > > device table.
> > >
> > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1> the
> > > system should boot normally.
> > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > >
> > >
> > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > >
> > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > >
> > > > This was followed by:
> > > >
> > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > >
> > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > >
> > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > >
> > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Anson
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2033
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 02:36:26 -0000
From: "ansoneinstein@..."
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

Alright,
When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.

Anson

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@...> wrote:
>
> Anson:
>
> Do you hear the HDD startup,  whir and rattle?
> ansoneinstein@... wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Ok,
> > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> >
> > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> >
> > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > batt.
> > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > that it still worked.
> > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > easier to replace the battery.
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Anson:
> > >
> > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > floppy.
> > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > known as
> > > the three finger salute.)
> > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > default
> > > device table.
> > >
> > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > the
> > > system should boot normally.
> > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > >
> > >
> > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > >
> > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > >
> > > > This was followed by:
> > > >
> > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > >
> > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > >
> > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > >
> > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Anson
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2034
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 03:20:41 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

Okay,

I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.

Phil

Since

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@..." <signupae@...> wrote:
>
> Alright,
> When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
>
> Anson
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> >
> > Anson:
> >
> > Do you hear the HDD startup,  whir and rattle?
> > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ok,
> > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > >
> > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > >
> > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > batt.
> > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > > that it still worked.
> > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > easier to replace the battery.
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford 
> > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Anson:
> > > >
> > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > floppy.
> > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > known as
> > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > default
> > > > device table.
> > > >
> > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > the
> > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > >
> > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > >
> > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > >
> > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > >
> > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > >
> > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Anson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2035
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 04:36:06 -0000
From: "ansoneinstein@..."
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

I can try to get a picture.
So, the drive back panel is connected to the mobo with two double layered ribbon cables.

When both cables are plugged in the computer won't boot
when neither cable is plugged in it won't boot
but when the cable closest to the screen is plugged in it boots

As to the cmos battery, I'm getting a couple new ones soon.

So, any ideas about the hdd and cables?
That is really confusing me ...

Anson

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> Okay,
>
> I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.
>
> Phil
>
> Since
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> >
> > Alright,
> > When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> > If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> > but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
> >
> > Anson
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Anson:
> > >
> > > Do you hear the HDD startup,  whir and rattle?
> > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ok,
> > > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > > >
> > > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > > >
> > > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > > batt.
> > > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > > > that it still worked.
> > > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > > easier to replace the battery.
> > > >
> > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Anson:
> > > > >
> > > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > > floppy.
> > > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > > known as
> > > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > > default
> > > > > device table.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > > the
> > > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Anson
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2036
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 05:08:22 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

Okay, I see what you did.

       The front cable goes to the floppy drive. The back cable goes to the HDD. By having either cable connected, you supply power to both units. This is what happens. Because the battery is dead (my belief), the data in the CMOS circuits cannot be read, thus the computer BIOS will not be able to see the HDD. But the BIOS has to detect that the HDD is physically there first before trying to access it. When you have both cables plugged in, the computer BIOS recognizes the HDD is attached, then tries to access it, but the CMOS circuits are down. Therefore it hangs. When both cables are unplugged, the computer cannot recognize either a floppy or the HDD being physically attached and therefore will hang again as it requires at least one of these devices in order to boot up. This BIOS is quite primitive. When you leave the floppy drive connected, but leave the HDD disconnected, the computer BIOS looks for the HDD, but eventually sees there isn't one physically connected, and it therefore bypasses trying to access it. This bypasses the code that would hang you up trying to access the CMOS circuit data. This leads the computer to go on with booting and tries to access the floppy drive, which should be successful.
      I believe that is how it is happening. I still believe the new battery will solve your problems. But I must admit there is a chance the HDD is bad. These old Conner were notorious for going out like that. I don't think that is the case, however because you mentioned that you had been able to boot it up before and make it work. Obviously the HDD worked then, right? It would be incredibly bad luck if the HDD suddenly failed on you then. If the HDD is bad, that is going to be a problem, because replacing it is exetremely difficult due to rarity of finding a replacement. Putting in a new HDD can be done, but it would have to be done in one of two ways. First, find a suitable replacement. These old GRiDcases were hardcoded into the BIOS to accept only three possible old style Conner drives. Finding these old drives is a real chore, Believe me, we've been looking around for a long time and they just aren't around anymore after 25 years. The company got bought out by SeaGate in the late 1980's or so. You can fit a 20 Mb, 40Mb, or a 100 Mb (and only these particular models: CP3020, CP3040, CP3044, or CP30104). As I said, it is virtually impossible to find these drives any more. The second option is to fit another hard drive into the computer.
      If you do this, it is a rather involved procedure. First, the drive should be less than 512 MB, otherwise the OS probably wouldn't see it. Second it must have the same pin configuration as the old Conner. If you compare the pin configuration of a modern ATA with this, you will see how different it is. They stopped making this old style configuration in the late 1980's, so a replacement drive would have to come from that era. Also, it is best to use another Conner model from that time period. If you find a suitable drive, the problem then becomes trying to adapt it to the 1520. To do this, you have to alter the BIOS code. Both Shawn and I have done this, using a CPS420 HDD, a CP30170, and a couple of other drives and we made this work. But we had to use an EPROM burner setup using replacement EPROM chips which replace the old BIOS chips in the computer. (These are located directly underneath the video card, which is the secondary card plugged directly onto the MoBo. This is the same card where the extra sockets for ROM chips are located.) We downloaded the BIOS code and changed it in certain places, then burned the new BIOS onto new EPROM chips and put these in the BIOS chip slots of the computer. This allowed the computer to recognize the new HDD's. The entire procedure is laid out in our files section. So far we have been successful in using other old Conner drives. None of us have tried a different brand yet, so we don't know if that will work, although I suspect it will. But as you can see, this is a real bear. So I hope your HDD is okay.
       Anyway, let us see how the new battery does, and we'll go from there.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@..." <signupae@...> wrote:
>
> I can try to get a picture.
> So, the drive back panel is connected to the mobo with two double layered ribbon cables.
>
> When both cables are plugged in the computer won't boot
> when neither cable is plugged in it won't boot
> but when the cable closest to the screen is plugged in it boots
>
> As to the cmos battery, I'm getting a couple new ones soon.
>
> So, any ideas about the hdd and cables?
> That is really confusing me ...
>
> Anson
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> >
> > Okay,
> >
> > I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > Since
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Alright,
> > > When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> > > If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> > > but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
> > >
> > > Anson
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Anson:
> > > >
> > > > Do you hear the HDD startup,  whir and rattle?
> > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok,
> > > > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > > > >
> > > > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I 
> > > > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > > > >
> > > > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > > > batt.
> > > > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > > > > that it still worked.
> > > > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > > > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > > > easier to replace the battery.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > > > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > > > floppy.
> > > > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > > > known as
> > > > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > > > default
> > > > > > device table.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > > > the
> > > > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Anson
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2037
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 22:14:20 -0000
From: "ansoneinstein@..."
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

It'll probably be a week or two before I get the batteries, but I'll let you know what happens when I do.

Thanks for the help!
Anson

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> Okay, I see what you did.
>
>        The front cable goes to the floppy drive. The back cable goes to the HDD. By having either cable connected, you supply power to both units. This is what happens. Because the battery is dead (my belief), the data in the CMOS circuits cannot be read, thus the computer BIOS will not be able to see the HDD. But the BIOS has to detect that the HDD is physically there first before trying to access it. When you have both cables plugged in, the computer BIOS recognizes the HDD is attached, then tries to access it, but the CMOS circuits are down. Therefore it hangs. When both cables are unplugged, the computer cannot recognize either a floppy or the HDD being physically attached and therefore will hang again as it requires at least one of these devices in order to boot up. This BIOS is quite primitive. When you leave the floppy drive connected, but leave the HDD disconnected, the computer BIOS looks for the HDD, but eventually sees there isn't one physically connected, and it therefore bypasses trying to access it. This bypasses the code that would hang you up trying to access the CMOS circuit data. This leads the computer to go on with booting and tries to access the floppy drive, which should be successful.
>       I believe that is how it is happening. I still believe the new battery will solve your problems. But I must admit there is a chance the HDD is bad. These old Conner were notorious for going out like that. I don't think that is the case, however because you mentioned that you had been able to boot it up before and make it work. Obviously the HDD worked then, right? It would be incredibly bad luck if the HDD suddenly failed on you then. If the HDD is bad, that is going to be a problem, because replacing it is exetremely difficult due to rarity of finding a replacement. Putting in a new HDD can be done, but it would have to be done in one of two ways. First, find a suitable replacement. These old GRiDcases were hardcoded into the BIOS to accept only three possible old style Conner drives. Finding these old drives is a real chore, Believe me, we've been looking around for a long time and they just aren't around anymore after 25 years. The company got bought out by SeaGate in the late 1980's or so. You can fit a 20 Mb, 40Mb, or a 100 Mb (and only these particular models: CP3020, CP3040, CP3044, or CP30104). As I said, it is virtually impossible to find these drives any more. The second option is to fit another hard drive into the computer.
>       If you do this, it is a rather involved procedure. First, the drive should be less than 512 MB, otherwise the OS probably wouldn't see it. Second it must have the same pin configuration as the old Conner. If you compare the pin configuration of a modern ATA with this, you will see how different it is. They stopped making this old style configuration in the late 1980's, so a replacement drive would have to come from that era. Also, it is best to use another Conner model from that time period. If you find a suitable drive, the problem then becomes trying to adapt it to the 1520. To do this, you have to alter the BIOS code. Both Shawn and I have done this, using a CPS420 HDD, a CP30170, and a couple of other drives and we made this work. But we had to use an EPROM burner setup using replacement EPROM chips which replace the old BIOS chips in the computer. (These are located directly underneath the video card, which is the secondary card plugged directly onto the MoBo. This is the same card where the extra sockets for ROM chips are located.) We downloaded the BIOS code and changed it in certain places, then burned the new BIOS onto new EPROM chips and put these in the BIOS chip slots of the computer. This allowed the computer to recognize the new HDD's. The entire procedure is laid out in our files section. So far we have been successful in using other old Conner drives. None of us have tried a different brand yet, so we don't know if that will work, although I suspect it will. But as you can see, this is a real bear. So I hope your HDD is okay.
>        Anyway, let us see how the new battery does, and we'll go from there.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> >
> > I can try to get a picture.
> > So, the drive back panel is connected to the mobo with two double layered ribbon cables.
> >
> > When both cables are plugged in the computer won't boot
> > when neither cable is plugged in it won't boot
> > but when the cable closest to the screen is plugged in it boots
> >
> > As to the cmos battery, I'm getting a couple new ones soon.
> >
> > So, any ideas about the hdd and cables?
> > That is really confusing me ...
> >
> > Anson
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Okay,
> > >
> > > I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > Since
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Alright,
> > > > When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> > > > If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> > > > but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
> > > >
> > > > Anson
> > > >
> > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Anson:
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you hear the HDD startup,  whir and rattle?
> > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok,
> > > > > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > > > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > > > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > > > > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > > > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > > > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > > > > batt.
> > > > > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > > > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured 
> > > > > > that it still worked.
> > > > > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > > > > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > > > > easier to replace the battery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > > > > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > > > > floppy.
> > > > > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > > > > known as
> > > > > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > > > > default
> > > > > > > device table.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > Anson
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2038
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 22:23:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Anson,
Phil asked the question, but I didn't see an answer: when you said that you disconnected the hard drive cable, what cable are you referring to?  I must have missed something because Phil said he understood what you did, but I'm just slow.
As you know, the hard and floppy drive interface is a solid connection from the back of the drive in to the motherboard.
Thanks,
-Shawn




________________________________
From: "ansoneinstein@...m" <signupae@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 6:14:20 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

It'll probably be a week or two before I get the batteries, but I'll let you know what happens when I do.

Thanks for the help!
Anson

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> Okay, I see what you did.
>
>        The front cable goes to the floppy drive. The back cable goes to the HDD. By having either cable connected, you supply power to both units. This is what happens. Because the battery is dead (my belief), the data in the CMOS circuits cannot be read, thus the computer BIOS will not be able to see the HDD. But the BIOS has to detect that the HDD is physically there first before trying to access it. When you have both cables plugged in, the computer BIOS recognizes the HDD is attached, then tries to access it, but the CMOS circuits are down. Therefore it hangs. When both cables are unplugged, the computer cannot recognize either a floppy or the HDD being physically attached and therefore will hang again as it requires at least one of these devices in order to boot up. This BIOS is quite primitive. When you leave the floppy drive connected, but leave the HDD disconnected, the computer BIOS looks for the HDD, but eventually sees there isn't one
 physically connected, and it therefore bypasses trying to access it. This bypasses the code that would hang you up trying to access the CMOS circuit data. This leads the computer to go on with booting and tries to access the floppy drive, which should be successful.
>      I believe that is how it is happening. I still believe the new battery will solve your problems. But I must admit there is a chance the HDD is bad. These old Conner were notorious for going out like that. I don't think that is the case, however because you mentioned that you had been able to boot it up before and make it work. Obviously the HDD worked then, right? It would be incredibly bad luck if the HDD suddenly failed on you then. If the HDD is bad, that is going to be a problem, because replacing it is exetremely difficult due to rarity of finding a replacement. Putting in a new HDD can be done, but it would have to be done in one of two ways. First, find a suitable replacement. These old GRiDcases were hardcoded into the BIOS to accept only three possible old style Conner drives. Finding these old drives is a real chore, Believe me, we've been looking around for a long time and they just aren't around anymore after 25 years. The company
 got bought out by SeaGate in the late 1980's or so. You can fit a 20 Mb, 40Mb, or a 100 Mb (and only these particular models: CP3020, CP3040, CP3044, or CP30104). As I said, it is virtually impossible to find these drives any more. The second option is to fit another hard drive into the computer.
>      If you do this, it is a rather involved procedure. First, the drive should be less than 512 MB, otherwise the OS probably wouldn't see it. Second it must have the same pin configuration as the old Conner. If you compare the pin configuration of a modern ATA with this, you will see how different it is. They stopped making this old style configuration in the late 1980's, so a replacement drive would have to come from that era. Also, it is best to use another Conner model from that time period. If you find a suitable drive, the problem then becomes trying to adapt it to the 1520. To do this, you have to alter the BIOS code. Both Shawn and I have done this, using a CPS420 HDD, a CP30170, and a couple of other drives and we made this work. But we had to use an EPROM burner setup using replacement EPROM chips which replace the old BIOS chips in the computer. (These are located directly underneath the video card, which is the secondary card plugged
 directly onto the MoBo. This is the same card where the extra sockets for ROM chips are located.) We downloaded the BIOS code and changed it in certain places, then burned the new BIOS onto new EPROM chips and put these in the BIOS chip slots of the computer. This allowed the computer to recognize the new HDD's. The entire procedure is laid out in our files section. So far we have been successful in using other old Conner drives. None of us have tried a different brand yet, so we don't know if that will work, although I suspect it will. But as you can see, this is a real bear. So I hope your HDD is okay.
>        Anyway, let us see how the new battery does, and we'll go from there.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> >
> > I can try to get a picture.
> > So, the drive back panel is connected to the mobo with two double layered ribbon cables.
> >
> > When both cables are plugged in the computer won't boot
> > when neither cable is plugged in it won't boot
> > but when the cable closest to the screen is plugged in it boots
> >
> > As to the cmos battery, I'm getting a couple new ones soon.
> >
> > So, any ideas about the hdd and cables?
> > That is really confusing me ...
> >
> > Anson
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Okay,
> > >
> > > I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve
 your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > Since
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Alright,
> > > > When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> > > > If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> > > > but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
> > > >
> > > > Anson
> > > > 
> > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Anson:
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you hear the HDD startup,  whir and rattle?
> > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok,
> > > > > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > > > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > > > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > > > > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > > > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > > > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > > > > batt.
> > > > > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > > > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > > > > > that it still worked.
> > > > > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > > > > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > > > > easier to replace the battery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > > > > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > > > > floppy.
> > > > > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > > > > known as
> > > > > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > > > > default
> > > > > > > device table.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > Anson
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>




------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2039
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 05:33:37 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

Shawn,

The backplane has two connectors to the motherboard. In the very early days, GRiDcase had a separate connector for the floppy drive which is whet went into the motherboard just to the right and underneath the battery insertion compartment. That was when they designed it for one or two floppies and no HDD. When they started putting in HDD, they redesigned the Mobo where the floppy connector slot stayed right where it was, and they put a separate connector slot for the HDD right behind it. They then went to a backplane configuration for the entire assembly to connect up the two units (floppy and HDD). Anson left the floppy disk connector inserted into its normal slot on the Mobo, leaving its data lines connected, but disconnected the connector behind it which connects the HDD. However, it will still receive power through the power connectors, because the power circuits are joined up. You only have to connect one connector to power both HDD and floppy. The data lines for each unit are in the same connector as their respective power lines, but of course have to be connected into their respective units for the computer to see them.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Anson,
> Phil asked the question, but I didn't see an answer: when you said that you disconnected the hard drive cable, what cable are you referring to?  I must have missed something because Phil said he understood what you did, but I'm just slow.
> As you know, the hard and floppy drive interface is a solid connection from the back of the drive in to the motherboard.
> Thanks,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "ansoneinstein@..." <signupae@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 6:14:20 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
>
> It'll probably be a week or two before I get the batteries, but I'll let you know what happens when I do.
>
> Thanks for the help!
> Anson
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> >
> > Okay, I see what you did.
> >
> >        The front cable goes to the floppy drive. The back cable goes to the HDD. By having either cable connected, you supply power to both units. This is what happens. Because the battery is dead (my belief), the data in the CMOS circuits cannot be read, thus the computer BIOS will not be able to see the HDD. But the BIOS has to detect that the HDD is physically there first before trying to access it. When you have both cables plugged in, the computer BIOS recognizes the HDD is attached, then tries to access it, but the CMOS circuits are down. Therefore it hangs. When both cables are unplugged, the computer cannot recognize either a floppy or the HDD being physically attached and therefore will hang again as it requires at least one of these devices in order to boot up. This BIOS is quite primitive. When you leave the floppy drive connected, but leave the HDD disconnected, the computer BIOS looks for the HDD, but eventually sees there isn't one
>  physically connected, and it therefore bypasses trying to access it. This bypasses the code that would hang you up trying to access the CMOS circuit data. This leads the computer to go on with booting and tries to access the floppy drive, which should be successful.
> >      I believe that is how it is happening. I still believe the new battery will solve your problems. But I must admit there is a chance the HDD is bad. These old Conner were notorious for going out like that. I don't think that is the case, however because you mentioned that you had been able to boot it up before and make it work. Obviously the HDD worked then, right? It would be incredibly bad luck if the HDD suddenly failed on you then. If the HDD is bad, that is going to be a problem, because replacing it is exetremely difficult due to rarity of finding a replacement. Putting in a new HDD can be done, but it would have to be done in one of two ways. First, find a suitable replacement. These old GRiDcases were hardcoded into the BIOS to accept only three possible old style Conner drives. Finding these old drives is a real chore, Believe me, we've been looking around for a long time and they just aren't around anymore after 25 years. The company
>  got bought out by SeaGate in the late 1980's or so. You can fit a 20 Mb, 40Mb, or a 100 Mb (and only these particular models: CP3020, CP3040, CP3044, or CP30104). As I said, it is virtually impossible to find these drives any more. The second option is to fit another hard drive into the computer.
> >      If you do this, it is a rather involved procedure. First, the drive should be less than 512 MB, otherwise the OS probably wouldn't see it. Second it must have the same pin configuration as the old Conner. If you compare the pin configuration of a modern ATA with this, you will see how different it is. They stopped making this old style configuration in the late 1980's, so a replacement drive would have to come from that era. Also, it is best to use another Conner model from that time period. If you find a suitable drive, the problem then becomes trying to adapt it to the 1520. To do this, you have to alter the BIOS code. Both Shawn and I have done this, using a CPS420 HDD, a CP30170, and a couple of other drives and we made this work. But we had to use an EPROM burner setup using replacement EPROM chips which replace the old BIOS chips in the computer. (These are located directly underneath the video card, which is the secondary card plugged
>  directly onto the MoBo. This is the same card where the extra sockets for ROM chips are located.) We downloaded the BIOS code and changed it in certain places, then burned the new BIOS onto new EPROM chips and put these in the BIOS chip slots of the computer. This allowed the computer to recognize the new HDD's. The entire procedure is laid out in our files section. So far we have been successful in using other old Conner drives. None of us have tried a different brand yet, so we don't know if that will work, although I suspect it will. But as you can see, this is a real bear. So I hope your HDD is okay.
> >        Anyway, let us see how the new battery does, and we'll go from there.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I can try to get a picture.
> > > So, the drive back panel is connected to the mobo with two double layered ribbon cables.
> > >
> > > When both cables are plugged in the computer won't boot
> > > when neither cable is plugged in it won't boot
> > > but when the cable closest to the screen is plugged in it boots
> > >
> > > As to the cmos battery, I'm getting a couple new ones soon.
> > >
> > > So, any ideas about the hdd and cables?
> > > That is really confusing me ...
> > >
> > > Anson
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Okay,
> > > >
> > > > I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve
>  your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > Since
> > > >
> > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Alright,
> > > > > When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> > > > > If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> > > > > but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anson
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you hear the HDD startup,  whir and rattle?
> > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ok,
> > > > > > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > > > > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > > > > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > > > > > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > > > > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > > > > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > > > > > batt.
> > > > > > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > > > > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > > > > > > that it still worked.
> > > > > > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > > > > > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > > > > > easier to replace the battery.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > > > > > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > > > > > floppy.
> > > > > > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > > > > > known as
> > > > > > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > > > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > > > > > default
> > > > > > > > device table.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > > > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > Anson
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2040
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 22:50:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Phil,
Oh, OK.  I don't think I've seen that version.  All of mine have the HDD and floppy on the same interface board.
Thanks,
-Shawn




________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2009 1:33:37 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

Shawn,

The backplane has two connectors to the motherboard. In the very early days, GRiDcase had a separate connector for the floppy drive which is whet went into the motherboard just to the right and underneath the battery insertion compartment. That was when they designed it for one or two floppies and no HDD. When they started putting in HDD, they redesigned the Mobo where the floppy connector slot stayed right where it was, and they put a separate connector slot for the HDD right behind it. They then went to a backplane configuration for the entire assembly to connect up the two units (floppy and HDD). Anson left the floppy disk connector inserted into its normal slot on the Mobo, leaving its data lines connected, but disconnected the connector behind it which connects the HDD. However, it will still receive power through the power connectors, because the power circuits are joined up. You only have to connect one connector to power both HDD and floppy. The
 data lines for each unit are in the same connector as their respective power lines, but of course have to be connected into their respective units for the computer to see them.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Anson,
> Phil asked the question, but I didn't see an answer: when you said that you disconnected the hard drive cable, what cable are you referring to?  I must have missed something because Phil said he understood what you did, but I'm just slow.
> As you know, the hard and floppy drive interface is a solid connection from the back of the drive in to the motherboard.
> Thanks,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "ansoneinstein@..." <signupae@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 6:14:20 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
>
> It'll probably be a week or two before I get the batteries, but I'll let you know what happens when I do.
>
> Thanks for the help!
> Anson
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> >
> > Okay, I see what you did.
> >
> >        The front cable goes to the floppy drive. The back cable goes to the HDD. By having either cable connected, you supply power to both units. This is what happens. Because the battery is dead (my belief), the data in the CMOS circuits cannot be read, thus the computer BIOS will not be able to see the HDD. But the BIOS has to detect that the HDD is physically there first before trying to access it. When you have both cables plugged in, the computer BIOS recognizes the HDD is attached, then tries to access it, but the CMOS circuits are down. Therefore it hangs. When both cables are unplugged, the computer cannot recognize either a floppy or the HDD being physically attached and therefore will hang again as it requires at least one of these devices in order to boot up. This BIOS is quite primitive. When you leave the floppy drive connected, but leave the HDD disconnected, the computer BIOS looks for the HDD, but eventually sees there isn't one
>  physically connected, and it therefore bypasses trying to access it. This bypasses the code that would hang you up trying to access the CMOS circuit data. This leads the computer to go on with booting and tries to access the floppy drive, which should be successful.
> >      I believe that is how it is happening. I still believe the new battery will solve your problems. But I must admit there is a chance the HDD is bad. These old Conner were notorious for going out like that. I don't think that is the case, however because you mentioned that you had been able to boot it up before and make it work. Obviously the HDD worked then, right? It would be incredibly bad luck if the HDD suddenly failed on you then. If the HDD is bad, that is going to be a problem, because replacing it is exetremely difficult due to rarity of finding a replacement. Putting in a new HDD can be done, but it would have to be done in one of two ways. First, find a suitable replacement. These old GRiDcases were hardcoded into the BIOS to accept only three possible old style Conner drives. Finding these old drives is a real chore, Believe me, we've been looking around for a long time and they just aren't around anymore after 25 years. The company
>  got bought out by SeaGate in the late 1980's or so. You can fit a 20 Mb, 40Mb, or a 100 Mb (and only these particular models: CP3020, CP3040, CP3044, or CP30104). As I said, it is virtually impossible to find these drives any more. The second option is to fit another hard drive into the computer.
> >      If you do this, it is a rather involved procedure. First, the drive should be less than 512 MB, otherwise the OS probably wouldn't see it. Second it must have the same pin configuration as the old Conner. If you compare the pin configuration of a modern ATA with this, you will see how different it is. They stopped making this old style configuration in the late 1980's, so a replacement drive would have to come from that era. Also, it is best to use another Conner model from that time period. If you find a suitable drive, the problem then becomes trying to adapt it to the 1520. To do this, you have to alter the BIOS code. Both Shawn and I have done this, using a CPS420 HDD, a CP30170, and a couple of other drives and we made this work. But we had to use an EPROM burner setup using replacement EPROM chips which replace the old BIOS chips in the computer. (These are located directly underneath the video card, which is the secondary card plugged
>  directly onto the MoBo. This is the same card where the extra sockets for ROM chips are located.) We downloaded the BIOS code and changed it in certain places, then burned the new BIOS onto new EPROM chips and put these in the BIOS chip slots of the computer. This allowed the computer to recognize the new HDD's. The entire procedure is laid out in our files section. So far we have been successful in using other old Conner drives. None of us have tried a different brand yet, so we don't know if that will work, although I suspect it will. But as you can see, this is a real bear. So I hope your HDD is okay.
> >        Anyway, let us see how the new battery does, and we'll go from there.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I can try to get a picture.
> > > So, the drive back panel is connected to the mobo with two double layered ribbon cables.
> > >
> > > When both cables are plugged in the computer won't boot
> > > when neither cable is plugged in it won't boot
> > > but when the cable closest to the screen is plugged in it boots
> > >
> > > As to the cmos battery, I'm getting a couple new ones soon.
> > >
> > > So, any ideas about the hdd and cables?
> > > That is really confusing me ...
> > >
> > > Anson
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Okay,
> > > >
> > > > I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve
>  your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > Since
> > > >
> > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Alright,
> > > > > When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> > > > > If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> > > > > but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anson
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you hear the HDD startup,  whir and rattle?
> > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ok,
> > > > > > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > > > > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > > > > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > > > > > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > > > > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > > > > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > > > > > batt.
> > > > > > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > > > > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > > > > > > that it still worked.
> > > > > > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably 
> > > > > > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > > > > > easier to replace the battery.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > > > > > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > > > > > floppy.
> > > > > > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > > > > > known as
> > > > > > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > > > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > > > > > default
> > > > > > > > device table.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > > > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > Anson
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>




------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2041
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 07:56:19 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

Shawn,

Yes that interface board is the backplane which connects to the floppy drive and HDD. But it should have two separate double ribbon cables with two black plastic connectors coming off of that backplane which connect to two input slots on the MoBo. I don't recall a model where the backplane had only one cable coming off of it, but I supposed an earlier version might have it. The two cable backplane is the stable version they stayed with in the end.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Phil,
> Oh, OK.  I don't think I've seen that version.  All of mine have the HDD and floppy on the same interface board.
> Thanks,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2009 1:33:37 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
>
> Shawn,
>
> The backplane has two connectors to the motherboard. In the very early days, GRiDcase had a separate connector for the floppy drive which is whet went into the motherboard just to the right and underneath the battery insertion compartment. That was when they designed it for one or two floppies and no HDD. When they started putting in HDD, they redesigned the Mobo where the floppy connector slot stayed right where it was, and they put a separate connector slot for the HDD right behind it. They then went to a backplane configuration for the entire assembly to connect up the two units (floppy and HDD). Anson left the floppy disk connector inserted into its normal slot on the Mobo, leaving its data lines connected, but disconnected the connector behind it which connects the HDD. However, it will still receive power through the power connectors, because the power circuits are joined up. You only have to connect one connector to power both HDD and floppy. The
>  data lines for each unit are in the same connector as their respective power lines, but of course have to be connected into their respective units for the computer to see them.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@> wrote:
> >
> > Anson,
> > Phil asked the question, but I didn't see an answer: when you said that you disconnected the hard drive cable, what cable are you referring to?  I must have missed something because Phil said he understood what you did, but I'm just slow.
> > As you know, the hard and floppy drive interface is a solid connection from the back of the drive in to the motherboard.
> > Thanks,
> > -Shawn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@>
> > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 6:14:20 PM
> > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
> >
> > It'll probably be a week or two before I get the batteries, but I'll let you know what happens when I do.
> >
> > Thanks for the help!
> > Anson
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Okay, I see what you did.
> > >
> > >        The front cable goes to the floppy drive. The back cable goes to the HDD. By having either cable connected, you supply power to both units. This is what happens. Because the battery is dead (my belief), the data in the CMOS circuits cannot be read, thus the computer BIOS will not be able to see the HDD. But the BIOS has to detect that the HDD is physically there first before trying to access it. When you have both cables plugged in, the computer BIOS recognizes the HDD is attached, then tries to access it, but the CMOS circuits are down. Therefore it hangs. When both cables are unplugged, the computer cannot recognize either a floppy or the HDD being physically attached and therefore will hang again as it requires at least one of these devices in order to boot up. This BIOS is quite primitive. When you leave the floppy drive connected, but leave the HDD disconnected, the computer BIOS looks for the HDD, but eventually sees there isn't one
> >  physically connected, and it therefore bypasses trying to access it. This bypasses the code that would hang you up trying to access the CMOS circuit data. This leads the computer to go on with booting and tries to access the floppy drive, which should be successful.
> > >      I believe that is how it is happening. I still believe the new battery will solve your problems. But I must admit there is a chance the HDD is bad. These old Conner were notorious for going out like that. I don't think that is the case, however because you mentioned that you had been able to boot it up before and make it work. Obviously the HDD worked then, right? It would be incredibly bad luck if the HDD suddenly failed on you then. If the HDD is bad, that is going to be a problem, because replacing it is exetremely difficult due to rarity of finding a replacement. Putting in a new HDD can be done, but it would have to be done in one of two ways. First, find a suitable replacement. These old GRiDcases were hardcoded into the BIOS to accept only three possible old style Conner drives. Finding these old drives is a real chore, Believe me, we've been looking around for a long time and they just aren't around anymore after 25 years. The company
> >  got bought out by SeaGate in the late 1980's or so. You can fit a 20 Mb, 40Mb, or a 100 Mb (and only these particular models: CP3020, CP3040, CP3044, or CP30104). As I said, it is virtually impossible to find these drives any more. The second option is to fit another hard drive into the computer.
> > >      If you do this, it is a rather involved procedure. First, the drive should be less than 512 MB, otherwise the OS probably wouldn't see it. Second it must have the same pin configuration as the old Conner. If you compare the pin configuration of a modern ATA with this, you will see how different it is. They stopped making this old style configuration in the late 1980's, so a replacement drive would have to come from that era. Also, it is best to use another Conner model from that time period. If you find a suitable drive, the problem then becomes trying to adapt it to the 1520. To do this, you have to alter the BIOS code. Both Shawn and I have done this, using a CPS420 HDD, a CP30170, and a couple of other drives and we made this work. But we had to use an EPROM burner setup using replacement EPROM chips which replace the old BIOS chips in the computer. (These are located directly underneath the video card, which is the secondary card plugged
> >  directly onto the MoBo. This is the same card where the extra sockets for ROM chips are located.) We downloaded the BIOS code and changed it in certain places, then burned the new BIOS onto new EPROM chips and put these in the BIOS chip slots of the computer. This allowed the computer to recognize the new HDD's. The entire procedure is laid out in our files section. So far we have been successful in using other old Conner drives. None of us have tried a different brand yet, so we don't know if that will work, although I suspect it will. But as you can see, this is a real bear. So I hope your HDD is okay.
> > >        Anyway, let us see how the new battery does, and we'll go from there.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I can try to get a picture.
> > > > So, the drive back panel is connected to the mobo with two double layered ribbon cables.
> > > >
> > > > When both cables are plugged in the computer won't boot
> > > > when neither cable is plugged in it won't boot
> > > > but when the cable closest to the screen is plugged in it boots
> > > >
> > > > As to the cmos battery, I'm getting a couple new ones soon.
> > > >
> > > > So, any ideas about the hdd and cables?
> > > > That is really confusing me ...
> > > >
> > > > Anson
> > > >
> > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Okay,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm a little confused. If you removed the hard drive and try to boot, it may be that the computer freezes because the Boot prgram can't find the hard drive. I am assuming that since the HDD is unplugged it isn't running. In your second example I am assuming that you are disconnecting the back panel from the assembly from the motherboard itself, which also disconnects the HDD from power and access. Then you say you are able to disconnect the connection from the HDD but keep the power on it. I"m confused because the connections to the HDD and the floppy drive are on one piece back panel that connects all of the connections to teh units at oen time. You shouldn't be able to connect the power to the HDD but not have the actual data connections unconnected, unless this is a completely different (earlier version) type of peropheral connection than I've ever seen in a GRiDcase. Is it possible for you to post a picture of it? I still think you will solve
> >  your problems by replacing the internal battery. Data to allow access to the HDD is contained in the CMOS circuits, and if the battery is dead, you cannot access the HDD.
> > > > >
> > > > > Phil
> > > > >
> > > > > Since
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "ansoneinstein@" <signupae@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alright,
> > > > > > When I take apart the case and take out the hdd, the computer won't boot at all.
> > > > > > If I unplug both double ribbon cables from the drive caddy ( with the hdd still plugged in) the computer also won't boot.
> > > > > > but if I open it up, and unplug the double ribbon cable from the drive caddy ( the cable closest to the back of the case) the computer will wait for about 30 sec, with the hdd light on. Then it will display the bios info, and give the ToD error, but it boots from a floppy disk. When I run it like this I can hear the hard drive running, but can't access it because of the unplugged cable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anson
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you hear the HDD startup,  whir and rattle?
> > > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ok,
> > > > > > > > I tried the "3-finger salute", and it still hangs at "press F1 . . ."
> > > > > > > > It could be trying to boot from the floppy, but shouldn't it be trying
> > > > > > > > to boot from the hdd first? unless that is the F key is pressed?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I got somewhat lucky, mine doesn't have the Dallas chip, at least I
> > > > > > > > don't think that it does since it has the Lion battery.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I had removed the Lion batt last year when it started giving me
> > > > > > > > trouble, and it worked until now without the battery. I have taken the
> > > > > > > > battery from a gridcase3 which has no hdd, and boots fine without the
> > > > > > > > batt.
> > > > > > > > I had thought that the other battery was still good, but I didn't
> > > > > > > > think to test it ( don't have a battery tester right now). I figured
> > > > > > > > that it still worked.
> > > > > > > > I'm hoping that it is just the battery and not the hdd. I can probably
> > > > > > > > get another hdd, or even another GRiDcase, but it would be so much
> > > > > > > > easier to replace the battery.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Ford
> > > > > > > > <charlieford1@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Anson:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > After striking the <F1> key the unit is attempting to boot from a
> > > > > > > > floppy.
> > > > > > > > > Press and hold <ctrl> and <alt> and strike <Delete> (a maneuver
> > > > > > > > known as
> > > > > > > > > the three finger salute.)
> > > > > > > > > This performs a "soft reset" which will reboot the system with a
> > > > > > > > default
> > > > > > > > > device table.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The Time of day error will return, but this time when you press <F1>
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > system should boot normally.
> > > > > > > > > Otherwise it may be time to look at your hard drive.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ansoneinstein@ wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I have here a GRiDcase 1520 with a 20 MB conner HDD.
> > > > > > > > > > The problem is that yesterday I turned on the computer, and after the
> > > > > > > > > > memcheck I got the following warning:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Time-Of-Day clock stopped - please set current time
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This was followed by:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Strike the F1 key to continue
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > At that point it just stopped accepting input and sat there with the
> > > > > > > > > > cursor blinking.
> > > > > > > > > > It has done this every single time since then when I turn it on.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The aggravating part is that it worked for a few days prior to the
> > > > > > > > > > failure. And I had it all setup for a show and tell session at the
> > > > > > > > > > next ACM meeting.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated,
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > > Anson
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2042
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 01:08:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

You know what?  I'm confused.  Old age is setting in.  I remember now.  The problem is I'm trying to do this from memory without having the Grid in front of me.
-Shawn




________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2009 3:56:19 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

Shawn,

Yes that interface board is the backplane which connects to the floppy drive and HDD. But it should have two separate double ribbon cables with two black plastic connectors coming off of that backplane which connect to two input slots on the MoBo. I don't recall a model where the backplane had only one cable coming off of it, but I supposed an earlier version might have it. The two cable backplane is the stable version they stayed with in the end.

Phil

Yahoo! Message number: 2043
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 14:16:03 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

No problem, Shawn, *grin*

Happens to the best of us. :D

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> You know what?  I'm confused.  Old age is setting in.  I remember now.  The problem is I'm trying to do this from memory without having the Grid in front of me.
> -Shawn
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2009 3:56:19 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.
>
> Shawn,
>
> Yes that interface board is the backplane which connects to the floppy drive and HDD. But it should have two separate double ribbon cables with two black plastic connectors coming off of that backplane which connect to two input slots on the MoBo. I don't recall a model where the backplane had only one cable coming off of it, but I supposed an earlier version might have it. The two cable backplane is the stable version they stayed with in the end.
>
> Phil
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2044
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:36:36 -0000
From: "Steven"
Subject: Has anyone heard of Orthotote?

I am considering buying this orthotote product. Has anyone out there bought it?  Below is the info about this product;I have edited it a bit so as not to make this too long.What do you think? This is not an advert. I am constantly using a shoulder held bag and it has caused me pain. I saw this ad but I do not care to be ripped off.


The Orthotote is a patented shoulder pad that can easily be attached to any shoulder strap up to 4 inches wide.

It works using three very sound principles.

The pad has a wedge shape that reverses the natural sliding pond slope of the shoulder. This wedge also shifts the center of gravity towards the middle of the body so that the laptop now wants to shift towards the body instead of away from it.

It distibutes the weight over a far larger area which eliminates that strap cutting into your shoulder area so you have no pain.

The bottom layer is a cushiony space age non marking plastic that acts like a shock absorber. At the same time this material grips the shoulder area, further reducing the possibility of slippage. The Orthotote is so revolutionary, it has earned a utility patent which means even its concept is patented.
So what do you think?

Yahoo! Message number: 2045
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:21:47 -0400
From: "Len.C"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Has anyone heard of Orthotote?
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

At $30 US its kinda of pricey, it also doesn't look any wider than what 
my laptop bag has on it now from IBM.

Its most likely wider than what this thing is and longer, is all 
leather, suede on the bottom so it doesn't slide, then a little padding 
then the top.

Steven wrote:
>  
>
> I am considering buying this orthotote product. Has anyone out there 
> bought it? Below is the info about this product;I have edited it a bit 
> so as not to make this too long.What do you think? This is not an 
> advert. I am constantly using a shoulder held bag and it has caused me 
> pain. I saw this ad but I do not care to be ripped off.
>
> The Orthotote is a patented shoulder pad that can easily be attached 
> to any shoulder strap up to 4 inches wide.
>
> It works using three very sound principles.
>
> The pad has a wedge shape that reverses the natural sliding pond slope 
> of the shoulder. This wedge also shifts the center of gravity towards 
> the middle of the body so that the laptop now wants to shift towards 
> the body instead of away from it.
>
> It distibutes the weight over a far larger area which eliminates that 
> strap cutting into your shoulder area so you have no pain.
>
> The bottom layer is a cushiony space age non marking plastic that acts 
> like a shock absorber. At the same time this material grips the 
> shoulder area, further reducing the possibility of slippage. The 
> Orthotote is so revolutionary, it has earned a utility patent which 
> means even its concept is patented.
> So what do you think?
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2046
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:47:39 -0000
From: "Andrea"
Subject: TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS

Hallo,

I found on Ebay an auction for 256k sipp memory modules, probably the same memory modules used in the Gridcase 1520/1530, 97 still available!!

TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220416050612
item nr. 220416050612 seller: acpsurplus.

Hi Shawn, thank you,
with your help now I have on my 1530 a new hard disk (CFS420A)
I'm still working on my grid 1550sx, I changed all the capacitors on the power module inside the computer since they are exausted, now the screen appears stable and clear.
however, are not able to change the bios, the method used for the checksum does not seem to work. The floppy disk drive does not work, I'm looking for a replacement, but I think is an OEM type.
Andrea

Yahoo! Message number: 2047
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:17:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS
text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Andrea,
Very good find!  I wish the seller had the 1 MB version, but 256k will do.  I also see that the seller has 27C128 EPROMs for sale.  If anyone wants to get in to Grid BIOS hacking, you'll need some EPROMs.
Thanks again, Andrea.
-Shawn




________________________________
From: Andrea <zentaro.cane@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, October 13, 2009 6:47:39 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS

Hallo,

I found on Ebay an auction for 256k sipp memory modules, probably the same memory modules used in the Gridcase 1520/1530, 97 still available!!

TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220416050612
item nr. 220416050612 seller: acpsurplus.

Hi Shawn, thank you,
with your help now I have on my 1530 a new hard disk (CFS420A)
I'm still working on my grid 1550sx, I changed all the capacitors on the power module inside the computer since they are exausted, now the screen appears stable and clear.
however, are not able to change the bios, the method used for the checksum does not seem to work. The floppy disk drive does not work, I'm looking for a replacement, but I think is an OEM type.
Andrea



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2048
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:23:11 -0700
From: Jim Stephens
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS

Shawnerz wrote:
>
>
> Andrea,
> Very good find!  I wish the seller had the 1 MB version, but 256k will 
> do.  I also see that the seller has 27C128 EPROMs for sale.  If anyone 
> wants to get in to Grid BIOS hacking, you'll need some EPROMs.
> Thanks again, Andrea.
> -Shawn
The vendor is Dave Freeman at Advanced Computer Products.  They bought a 
huge amount of the Grid liquidation hardware back in the day when Grid 
fell in.  I still have a couple of units they sold at the time (in the 
early 80's maybe?).  They bought a lot of surplus when places went 
bankrupt.  Also bought a lot of Kaypro as well.

Call him at 714-558-8813 or 714-558-8822 and as for Dave Freeman and see 
if he can get someone to dig for older Grid stuff in the pile.  He may 
no longer know it is a grid component, as he has moved the pile he has a 
couple of times.

Here is another web site he put up related to vintage computing. 

http://www.thepcmuseum.net/

Jim

Yahoo! Message number: 2049
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:13:57 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS

Thanks, Shawnerz,

I did try Dave for a different reason, which was to see if I could find a working external floppy drive. Those are the GRiD model 3401 (3.5" diskette drive), 3402 (5.25" floppy diskette drive, 360Kb), or 3404 (5.25" floppy diskette drive, 1.2 Mb), but he didn't have any of them. The other thing I wanted to find is if there was a part number for those 1Mb RAM sticks. I'd appreciate it if any of you guys out there have this part information, and where I might be able to find one of these floppy drives. I can use any of them. Thanks.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Jim Stephens <jws@...> wrote:
>
> Shawnerz wrote:
> >
> >
> > Andrea,
> > Very good find!  I wish the seller had the 1 MB version, but 256k will
> > do.  I also see that the seller has 27C128 EPROMs for sale.  If anyone
> > wants to get in to Grid BIOS hacking, you'll need some EPROMs.
> > Thanks again, Andrea.
> > -Shawn
> The vendor is Dave Freeman at Advanced Computer Products.  They bought a
> huge amount of the Grid liquidation hardware back in the day when Grid
> fell in.  I still have a couple of units they sold at the time (in the
> early 80's maybe?).  They bought a lot of surplus when places went
> bankrupt.  Also bought a lot of Kaypro as well.
>
> Call him at 714-558-8813 or 714-558-8822 and as for Dave Freeman and see
> if he can get someone to dig for older Grid stuff in the pile.  He may
> no longer know it is a grid component, as he has moved the pile he has a
> couple of times.
>
> Here is another web site he put up related to vintage computing.
>
> http://www.thepcmuseum.net/
>
> Jim
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2050
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:37:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re:

While I have both of the external drives you mention I won't part with them. But what I do have is a massive
5 1/4 Grid 2202 meant I imagine for one of the earlier models. It must be coveted, perhaps it's for the Grid Compass. It also has a cable for the different interface. If you have contact with any of the earlier Grid collectors who might have a GRid external 15xx fdd or two, perhaps you could arrange a 3rd party trade.

 In return I would want a working HDD for the Grid 1520, preferably a larger HD and altered BIOS chips.
 I think that would be a good trade for all concerned. The 2202, like the C-64 and other computers, has 2 ports meant for chaining drives and well worth 2 fdds for you in exchange because of it's rarity.

  As for the SIPPs, you might try a post on the Vintage Computer Forum. After long unfruitful searches on E-Pay for them I managed to get 8 (for my 2 1520s) there from a guy in Belgium. I think the main criteria is Standard or Low Profile SIPPS. I don't think there were many higher than Standard SIPPS produced. The ones I got worked fine. I ran Win3.1 with extended memory with them. You could measure the clearance between the socket and the cover to ensure they would fit in the case.

Lawrence


      __________________________________________________________________
Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/

Yahoo! Message number: 2051
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 09:23:22 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re:

Thanks, Lawrence,

      I appreciate the offer. Do you know if the 2202 will work with the 1500 series? I don't have any contact with any other GRiD collectors, and a google search came up empty. If the 2202 will work, then I think I may be able to accommodate you. I am set up to be able to burn EPROMS for a 1520. But I have to find an appropriate hard drive. I've been able to succesfully adapt the CGS420 like Shawn did, as well as three other models, a 100 Mb, a 120Mb and a 170Mb. I should be able to copy and burn the chips as I have those computers with me. I just have to find the HDD.
      This all came about as I recently came into possession of a 1535 EXP in mint condition. I only had to replace the Tadiran battery and it booted up perfectly. This model has the HDD but no floppy, so right now I don't have a way to interact with the computer in terms of file transfer. I could use PCMASTER/PCSLAVE, I suppose, as my main desktop has a serial port on it I can use, and remarkably I have installed on it a legacy 5.25" floppy as my Drive B:, just in case, so the 2202 would work. Of course I could also do it with one of my other GRiDs, which have floppy disks, but this options is a pain. I'd rather have a floppy I can attach to this unit.
      One other option I have is that I bought an old Dell 1.44 Mb floppy drive for $3.00, that is parallel port connected. I'm going to try that and see if the computer will see it. If so, that would solve my problems.
      Another option is that I do have the expansion tray for the 1535. I can just connect it and then find a legacy hardware card to insert in it that would hook up to a floppy drive in some way..
      But if these options don't work, I'll probably be looking for an appropriate HDD for you, Lawrence. If I happen to run across one in any case, I'll see if I can snag it for you.
      I snagged some 1 Mb low profile SIPP's off E-pay, four of them. I haggled the price down a lot, but I still paid too much.....meh. However, I have some other irons in the fire that may pan out in terms of getting more of those memory sticks.
      I remember that there was some kit by Pyramid(?), or somebody, where you could actually insert 16 Mb of RAM into the computer. Do you happen to recall the details on that adaptation? I have toyed with several ideas on solving this problem with the RAM. I have not been able to find any SIPP to SIMM adapters that would fit. The distance between the pin banks on the MoBo is 0.2 inches. Every adapter I ever found was at least 0.3 inches thick, and also to wide as well, interfering with both the video card and the indicator light array.
      After looking and discarding several ideas, it seems the only way to solve the problem is to actually design and produce some type of interface. I envisioned some pin inserts that would be place permanently into the SIPP slots, and all 240 wires (probably on a ribbon) would have to connect to a small board that would accept up to 4x4Mb SIMM's, which would be a lot easier to find. But this is far beyond my capabilities. I would have to get some manufacturer to do it, and would probably be prohibitively expensive. Ah,well. It's nice to dream.
     One other thing. I recently procured several new Dallas RTC 1287A chips. These are exact replacements for the ones on the GRiD computers. They came from a batch intended to be used in a bunch of old Dells in 1989, but never were used. Since they were never connected, the batteries appear to be okay. I replaced one in a 1520 I have, but the BIOS saw it as a different chip and kept asking for the BIOS password, which of course is the problem that we always ran into before, when trying to replace the 1520's RTC chip, along with the fact that you cannot use the 12887A in 16 bit machines. This is not a problem with the 1530's,a s the BIOS there allows one to replace the 1287 without a problem
     I finally talked to someone experienced in assembly language from that era who told me that he thought the issue was a security feature. Each Dallas 1287 and 1287A has its own identifier number, and the BIOS is programmed to recognize the original chip that came with that board. This semes to make some sense as GRiD's were used by the Military and NASA. He seemed to think that if you could find the code in the BIOS, it could be altered to accept the new 1287A chip, which also makes sense since the 1530 BIOS can do it. I am presently looking into doing that. I am using a disassembler to break down the BIOS code into assembly instructions. Then I will see if I can find someone who is familiar enough with this to figure out if this is truly the case.
     This is the state of my research so far, when I have time. Again, thanks for the offer. I'll get back to you on that if these other options don't work.

Phil


--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...> wrote:
>
> While I have both of the external drives you mention I won't part with them. But what I do have is a massive
> 5 1/4 Grid 2202 meant I imagine for one of the earlier models. It must be coveted, perhaps it's for the Grid Compass. It also has a cable for the different interface. If you have contact with any of the earlier Grid collectors who might have a GRid external 15xx fdd or two, perhaps you could arrange a 3rd party trade.
>
>  In return I would want a working HDD for the Grid 1520, preferably a larger HD and altered BIOS chips.
>  I think that would be a good trade for all concerned. The 2202, like the C-64 and other computers, has 2 ports meant for chaining drives and well worth 2 fdds for you in exchange because of it's rarity.
>
>   As for the SIPPs, you might try a post on the Vintage Computer Forum. After long unfruitful searches on E-Pay for them I managed to get 8 (for my 2 1520s) there from a guy in Belgium. I think the main criteria is Standard or Low Profile SIPPS. I don't think there were many higher than Standard SIPPS produced. The ones I got worked fine. I ran Win3.1 with extended memory with them. You could measure the clearance between the socket and the cover to ensure they would fit in the case.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>       __________________________________________________________________
> Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2052
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:57:07 -0800
From: KenS
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: TOYOCOM TH22568-H12 SIPP Module 30-PIN NOS

jeriddian wrote:
> Those are the GRiD model 3401 (3.5" diskette drive),

I have the following which might be of interest and would like to dispose of it, 
preferably in a single shipment:

Grid 3401 3.5" external floppy drive with cable (pin 1 blocked)

(2) Grid 32170 3.5" external drives.  These have the same 25 pin connector but 
pin 1 is used.  Not interchangeable with the 3401.

Grid 1535 exp.  The expansion tray went away long ago when it developed internal 
shorts which I couldn't locate but it pulled down the power supply.  The hard 
drive is now an IBM DALA-3540 which is not usable but the BIOS would hang on 
either the defective original Conner CP3044 or a missing HDD.  The IBM drive has 
the small 3-pin power connector to fit into the 1535 case.  This 1535 exp would 
boot from the external 3401 floppy until I foolishly connected a 32170 which 
seems to have fried the external floppy interface within the 1535.  It is now a 
candidate for a BIOS reprogram to use some appropriate HDD as has been discussed 
on this forum or for spare parts.  For example the power supply is good.  I find 
the blue on gray LCD screen rather hard to see.

Any interest out there?  The collection weighs 22 lbs.  Located near Santa 
Maria, CA.

Ken S.
aka:  engrken04
aka:  engrken@...

Yahoo! Message number: 2053
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 02:16:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
text/plain; charset=utf-8

 No the 2202 has a larger connector. Perhaps 19 pins or so. That's why I mentioned a 3rd party trade.
I have 8 1meg Sipps in my 1520s. ISTR something about 16megs in a 15xx and it could have been Pyramid. I had some old usenet posts of Grid references, but finding them would be a problem.

 I wasn't aware of this problem with the Dallas chip. I was always under the impression that simply grounding one of the pins as outlined in the Dallas specs, wiped out anything in the BIOS memory and then they worked.

Lawrence



________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...m>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, November 14, 2009 3:23:22 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:

 
Thanks, Lawrence,

I appreciate the offer. Do you know if the 2202 will work with the 1500 series? I don't have any contact with any other GRiD collectors, and a google search came up empty. If the 2202 will work, then I think I may be able to accommodate you. I am set up to be able to burn EPROMS for a 1520. But I have to find an appropriate hard drive. I've been able to succesfully adapt the CGS420 like Shawn did, as well as three other models, a 100 Mb, a 120Mb and a 170Mb. I should be able to copy and burn the chips as I have those computers with me. I just have to find the HDD.
This all came about as I recently came into possession of a 1535 EXP in mint condition. I only had to replace the Tadiran battery and it booted up perfectly. This model has the HDD but no floppy, so right now I don't have a way to interact with the computer in terms of file transfer. I could use PCMASTER/PCSLAVE, I suppose, as my main desktop has a serial port on it I can use, and remarkably I have installed on it a legacy 5.25" floppy as my Drive B:, just in case, so the 2202 would work. Of course I could also do it with one of my other GRiDs, which have floppy disks, but this options is a pain. I'd rather have a floppy I can attach to this unit.
One other option I have is that I bought an old Dell 1.44 Mb floppy drive for $3.00, that is parallel port connected. I'm going to try that and see if the computer will see it. If so, that would solve my problems.
Another option is that I do have the expansion tray for the 1535. I can just connect it and then find a legacy hardware card to insert in it that would hook up to a floppy drive in some way..
But if these options don't work, I'll probably be looking for an appropriate HDD for you, Lawrence. If I happen to run across one in any case, I'll see if I can snag it for you.
I snagged some 1 Mb low profile SIPP's off E-pay, four of them. I haggled the price down a lot, but I still paid too much.....meh. However, I have some other irons in the fire that may pan out in terms of getting more of those memory sticks.
I remember that there was some kit by Pyramid(?), or somebody, where you could actually insert 16 Mb of RAM into the computer. Do you happen to recall the details on that adaptation? I have toyed with several ideas on solving this problem with the RAM. I have not been able to find any SIPP to SIMM adapters that would fit. The distance between the pin banks on the MoBo is 0.2 inches. Every adapter I ever found was at least 0.3 inches thick, and also to wide as well, interfering with both the video card and the indicator light array.
After looking and discarding several ideas, it seems the only way to solve the problem is to actually design and produce some type of interface. I envisioned some pin inserts that would be place permanently into the SIPP slots, and all 240 wires (probably on a ribbon) would have to connect to a small board that would accept up to 4x4Mb SIMM's, which would be a lot easier to find. But this is far beyond my capabilities. I would have to get some manufacturer to do it, and would probably be prohibitively expensive. Ah,well. It's nice to dream.
One other thing. I recently procured several new Dallas RTC 1287A chips. These are exact replacements for the ones on the GRiD computers. They came from a batch intended to be used in a bunch of old Dells in 1989, but never were used. Since they were never connected, the batteries appear to be okay. I replaced one in a 1520 I have, but the BIOS saw it as a different chip and kept asking for the BIOS password, which of course is the problem that we always ran into before, when trying to replace the 1520's RTC chip, along with the fact that you cannot use the 12887A in 16 bit machines. This is not a problem with the 1530's,a s the BIOS there allows one to replace the 1287 without a problem
I finally talked to someone experienced in assembly language from that era who told me that he thought the issue was a security feature. Each Dallas 1287 and 1287A has its own identifier number, and the BIOS is programmed to recognize the original chip that came with that board. This semes to make some sense as GRiD's were used by the Military and NASA. He seemed to think that if you could find the code in the BIOS, it could be altered to accept the new 1287A chip, which also makes sense since the 1530 BIOS can do it. I am presently looking into doing that. I am using a disassembler to break down the BIOS code into assembly instructions. Then I will see if I can find someone who is familiar enough with this to figure out if this is truly the case.
This is the state of my research so far, when I have time. Again, thanks for the offer. I'll get back to you on that if these other options don't work.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@ ...> wrote:
>
> While I have both of the external drives you mention I won't part with them. But what I do have is a massive
> 5 1/4 Grid 2202 meant I imagine for one of the earlier models. It must be coveted, perhaps it's for the Grid Compass. It also has a cable for the different interface. If you have contact with any of the earlier Grid collectors who might have a GRid external 15xx fdd or two, perhaps you could arrange a 3rd party trade.
>
>  In return I would want a working HDD for the Grid 1520, preferably a larger HD and altered BIOS chips.
>  I think that would be a good trade for all concerned. The 2202, like the C-64 and other computers, has 2 ports meant for chaining drives and well worth 2 fdds for you in exchange because of it's rarity.
>
>   As for the SIPPs, you might try a post on the Vintage Computer Forum. After long unfruitful searches on E-Pay for them I managed to get 8 (for my 2 1520s) there from a guy in Belgium. I think the main criteria is Standard or Low Profile SIPPS. I don't think there were many higher than Standard SIPPS produced. The ones I got worked fine. I ran Win3.1 with extended memory with them. You could measure the clearance between the socket and the cover to ensure they would fit in the case.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads. yahoo.com/ ca/internetexplo rer/
>





      __________________________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Message number: 2054
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:38:36 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re:

Thanks, Lawrence,

        Ken S. has provided me the alternative for the floppy drive. I have done some research into the Dallas RTC. The BIOS of the 1530 is rewritten for 32 bit operation, which of course is why the 12887 can be used. The 12887 has its internal registers rerouted internally to allow for 32 bit operation. If it is used in a 16 bit machine like the 1520, the BIOS tries to access the wrong registers because they are addressed differently. This is why we always had to go back to configuring the internal battery connection to an external battery as we have done, since the 1287 was no longer made. We had always thought that if we could ever find 1287's, it would simply be a matter of replacing them.
        Well, I got my chance when I found these old unused 1287's. I put one in an old 1520 I had procured. To my surprise, I got the recurring question asking for the BIOS password, which is exactly what happens when someone tries to put a 12887 onto a 1520 board. In case you don't know, when the original Dallas RTC chip on a 1520 is replaced with a 12887, the BIOS recognizes that it is a different chip. Right after the POST, it executes some code in the BIOS asking for a BIOS password. I think what happens was that GRiD took the original Phoenix BIOS code and altered it for their own purposes, but did not completely rewrite it. I think that since the RTC was never intended to be replaced, they never took out the code that asked for the password, but they did take out the code for providing an answer, possibly because they needed the room for more specific code for the 1520, or maybe for security purposes. The end result is that if that code is executed, it will ask for the password right after boot up. It doesn't matter what answer is given. Once the enter button is hit, the code just forces the computer into a warm boot, and it locks the computer into this interminable loop, never allowing it to completely boot up. We always thought this was because the 12887 was too different, but now that I have tried an exact replacement, we know now that is not enough to solve the problem.
        As I noted, I was able to contact a company that specialized in rewriting BIOS assembly code for older computers, but the GRiD was too old even for them. But they did tell me that the Dallas RTC chips were used for security purposes in identification of computers and their speculation was that this was one of the purposes, if not the purpose, for its use in a GRiD Laptop which was often used for NASA and military applications like Freddy FADAC fire control units for army artillery in Desert Storm. If this was the case, then the BIOS of each 1520 from those earlier GRiD days would be attuned to only one specific 1287 chip, sort of like DNA, I guess. Replacing it would make the BIOS balk at using the new one. Since this was not a problem in the 1287 chips in the later 1530's that used the RTC, it was either a hardwiring issue on the MoBo or it was the BIOS that was different. The programmer to whom I spoke felt it was more likely the BIOS since it was simply a matter of recognizing the chip, which probably has some sort of ID number embedded in it. The BIOS code in the 1530's simply ignores it, since at the point the new 32 bit computers were coming out in 1985 or so, the security intent of using those chips apparently had become outmoded or unnecessary, which seems to point to why GRiD eventually abandoned the 1287 and went to the 146818 clocking chip maintained by the Tadiran battery.
        Granted there is some speculation here, but I think the evidence supporting it is solid. So the problem here is altering the 1520 BIOS code to eliminate the need to recognize a new 1287 chip, or simply to tell the computer to accept the chip no matter its ID number. To do this, I have to disassemble the BIOS code. I am attempting to do this now using IDA disassmebler, but it very slow going. I dallied with assembly code back in the 80's, but I simply don't know enough about it, or how to operate the IDA well enough to easily smoke out all the code. I have to learn all this stuff again, which is going to take time, and also take my digging out a whole lot of old books I have in storage. But I think I will make progress once I think hard enough on it. Right now, though, I have too many other irons in the fire. One of these days, I'll get back to it.

Phil


--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...> wrote:
>
>  No the 2202 has a larger connector. Perhaps 19 pins or so. That's why I mentioned a 3rd party trade.
> I have 8 1meg Sipps in my 1520s. ISTR something about 16megs in a 15xx and it could have been Pyramid. I had some old usenet posts of Grid references, but finding them would be a problem.
>
>  I wasn't aware of this problem with the Dallas chip. I was always under the impression that simply grounding one of the pins as outlined in the Dallas specs, wiped out anything in the BIOS memory and then they worked.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, November 14, 2009 3:23:22 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
>
>  
> Thanks, Lawrence,
>
> I appreciate the offer. Do you know if the 2202 will work with the 1500 series? I don't have any contact with any other GRiD collectors, and a google search came up empty. If the 2202 will work, then I think I may be able to accommodate you. I am set up to be able to burn EPROMS for a 1520. But I have to find an appropriate hard drive. I've been able to succesfully adapt the CGS420 like Shawn did, as well as three other models, a 100 Mb, a 120Mb and a 170Mb. I should be able to copy and burn the chips as I have those computers with me. I just have to find the HDD.
> This all came about as I recently came into possession of a 1535 EXP in mint condition. I only had to replace the Tadiran battery and it booted up perfectly. This model has the HDD but no floppy, so right now I don't have a way to interact with the computer in terms of file transfer. I could use PCMASTER/PCSLAVE, I suppose, as my main desktop has a serial port on it I can use, and remarkably I have installed on it a legacy 5.25" floppy as my Drive B:, just in case, so the 2202 would work. Of course I could also do it with one of my other GRiDs, which have floppy disks, but this options is a pain. I'd rather have a floppy I can attach to this unit.
> One other option I have is that I bought an old Dell 1.44 Mb floppy drive for $3.00, that is parallel port connected. I'm going to try that and see if the computer will see it. If so, that would solve my problems.
> Another option is that I do have the expansion tray for the 1535. I can just connect it and then find a legacy hardware card to insert in it that would hook up to a floppy drive in some way..
> But if these options don't work, I'll probably be looking for an appropriate HDD for you, Lawrence. If I happen to run across one in any case, I'll see if I can snag it for you.
> I snagged some 1 Mb low profile SIPP's off E-pay, four of them. I haggled the price down a lot, but I still paid too much.....meh. However, I have some other irons in the fire that may pan out in terms of getting more of those memory sticks.
> I remember that there was some kit by Pyramid(?), or somebody, where you could actually insert 16 Mb of RAM into the computer. Do you happen to recall the details on that adaptation? I have toyed with several ideas on solving this problem with the RAM. I have not been able to find any SIPP to SIMM adapters that would fit. The distance between the pin banks on the MoBo is 0.2 inches. Every adapter I ever found was at least 0.3 inches thick, and also to wide as well, interfering with both the video card and the indicator light array.
> After looking and discarding several ideas, it seems the only way to solve the problem is to actually design and produce some type of interface. I envisioned some pin inserts that would be place permanently into the SIPP slots, and all 240 wires (probably on a ribbon) would have to connect to a small board that would accept up to 4x4Mb SIMM's, which would be a lot easier to find. But this is far beyond my capabilities. I would have to get some manufacturer to do it, and would probably be prohibitively expensive. Ah,well. It's nice to dream.
> One other thing. I recently procured several new Dallas RTC 1287A chips. These are exact replacements for the ones on the GRiD computers. They came from a batch intended to be used in a bunch of old Dells in 1989, but never were used. Since they were never connected, the batteries appear to be okay. I replaced one in a 1520 I have, but the BIOS saw it as a different chip and kept asking for the BIOS password, which of course is the problem that we always ran into before, when trying to replace the 1520's RTC chip, along with the fact that you cannot use the 12887A in 16 bit machines. This is not a problem with the 1530's,a s the BIOS there allows one to replace the 1287 without a problem
> I finally talked to someone experienced in assembly language from that era who told me that he thought the issue was a security feature. Each Dallas 1287 and 1287A has its own identifier number, and the BIOS is programmed to recognize the original chip that came with that board. This semes to make some sense as GRiD's were used by the Military and NASA. He seemed to think that if you could find the code in the BIOS, it could be altered to accept the new 1287A chip, which also makes sense since the 1530 BIOS can do it. I am presently looking into doing that. I am using a disassembler to break down the BIOS code into assembly instructions. Then I will see if I can find someone who is familiar enough with this to figure out if this is truly the case.
> This is the state of my research so far, when I have time. Again, thanks for the offer. I'll get back to you on that if these other options don't work.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > While I have both of the external drives you mention I won't part with them. But what I do have is a massive
> > 5 1/4 Grid 2202 meant I imagine for one of the earlier models. It must be coveted, perhaps it's for the Grid Compass. It also has a cable for the different interface. If you have contact with any of the earlier Grid collectors who might have a GRid external 15xx fdd or two, perhaps you could arrange a 3rd party trade.
> >
> >  In return I would want a working HDD for the Grid 1520, preferably a larger HD and altered BIOS chips.
> >  I think that would be a good trade for all concerned. The 2202, like the C-64 and other computers, has 2 ports meant for chaining drives and well worth 2 fdds for you in exchange because of it's rarity.
> >
> >   As for the SIPPs, you might try a post on the Vintage Computer Forum. After long unfruitful searches on E-Pay for them I managed to get 8 (for my 2 1520s) there from a guy in Belgium. I think the main criteria is Standard or Low Profile SIPPS. I don't think there were many higher than Standard SIPPS produced. The ones I got worked fine. I ran Win3.1 with extended memory with them. You could measure the clearance between the socket and the cover to ensure they would fit in the case.
> >
> > Lawrence
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads. yahoo.com/ ca/internetexplo rer/
> >
>
>
> 
>
>
>       __________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now
> http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2055
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:50:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
text/plain; charset=utf-8

________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 1:38:36 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:

 There is an interesting discussion going on in the Vintage Computer Forum regarding problems with replacing the Dallas chip in some IBM PS1/PS2 s
 http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?t=18169
It also references a MCA Mafia site with some references to the Dallas 1287
 http://www.tavi.co.uk/ps2pages/battery.html#8509237
notably that the "A" on these models eg: 1287A designated that they had a reset pin to erase the BIOS which was crucial on the Grid to get rid of an unwanted password, which I used successfully on my 1520. Could that have been the problem with the Grid security issues ? I don't recall the number on my chip but it did have a reset ground pin combination which I filed in the files archive, quoting from the Dallas page. There was also some mention by a former Grid tech posted about a common password
reset which could be supplied to customers having problems.

Lawrence


Thanks, Lawrence,

Ken S. has provided me the alternative for the floppy drive. I have done some research into the Dallas RTC. The BIOS of the 1530 is rewritten for 32 bit operation, which of course is why the 12887 can be used. The 12887 has its internal registers rerouted internally to allow for 32 bit operation. If it is used in a 16 bit machine like the 1520, the BIOS tries to access the wrong registers because they are addressed differently. This is why we always had to go back to configuring the internal battery connection to an external battery as we have done, since the 1287 was no longer made. We had always thought that if we could ever find 1287's, it would simply be a matter of replacing them.
Well, I got my chance when I found these old unused 1287's. I put one in an old 1520 I had procured. To my surprise, I got the recurring question asking for the BIOS password, which is exactly what happens when someone tries to put a 12887 onto a 1520 board. In case you don't know, when the original Dallas RTC chip on a 1520 is replaced with a 12887, the BIOS recognizes that it is a different chip. Right after the POST, it executes some code in the BIOS asking for a BIOS password. I think what happens was that GRiD took the original Phoenix BIOS code and altered it for their own purposes, but did not completely rewrite it. I think that since the RTC was never intended to be replaced, they never took out the code that asked for the password, but they did take out the code for providing an answer, possibly because they needed the room for more specific code for the 1520, or maybe for security purposes. The end result is that if that code is executed, it
 will ask for the password right after boot up. It doesn't matter what answer is given. Once the enter button is hit, the code just forces the computer into a warm boot, and it locks the computer into this interminable loop, never allowing it to completely boot up. We always thought this was because the 12887 was too different, but now that I have tried an exact replacement, we know now that is not enough to solve the problem.
As I noted, I was able to contact a company that specialized in rewriting BIOS assembly code for older computers, but the GRiD was too old even for them. But they did tell me that the Dallas RTC chips were used for security purposes in identification of computers and their speculation was that this was one of the purposes, if not the purpose, for its use in a GRiD Laptop which was often used for NASA and military applications like Freddy FADAC fire control units for army artillery in Desert Storm. If this was the case, then the BIOS of each 1520 from those earlier GRiD days would be attuned to only one specific 1287 chip, sort of like DNA, I guess. Replacing it would make the BIOS balk at using the new one. Since this was not a problem in the 1287 chips in the later 1530's that used the RTC, it was either a hardwiring issue on the MoBo or it was the BIOS that was different. The programmer to whom I spoke felt it was more likely the BIOS since it was
 simply a matter of recognizing the chip, which probably has some sort of ID number embedded in it. The BIOS code in the 1530's simply ignores it, since at the point the new 32 bit computers were coming out in 1985 or so, the security intent of using those chips apparently had become outmoded or unnecessary, which seems to point to why GRiD eventually abandoned the 1287 and went to the 146818 clocking chip maintained by the Tadiran battery.
Granted there is some speculation here, but I think the evidence supporting it is solid. So the problem here is altering the 1520 BIOS code to eliminate the need to recognize a new 1287 chip, or simply to tell the computer to accept the chip no matter its ID number. To do this, I have to disassemble the BIOS code. I am attempting to do this now using IDA disassmebler, but it very slow going. I dallied with assembly code back in the 80's, but I simply don't know enough about it, or how to operate the IDA well enough to easily smoke out all the code. I have to learn all this stuff again, which is going to take time, and also take my digging out a whole lot of old books I have in storage. But I think I will make progress once I think hard enough on it. Right now, though, I have too many other irons in the fire. One of these days, I'll get back to it.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@ ...> wrote:
>
> Ă‚ No the 2202 has a larger connector. Perhaps 19 pins or so. That's why I mentioned a 3rd party trade.
> I have 8 1meg Sipps in my 1520s. ISTR something about 16megs in a 15xx and it could have been Pyramid. I had some old usenet posts of Grid references, but finding them would be a problem.
>
> Ă‚ I wasn't aware of this problem with the Dallas chip. I was always under the impression that simply grounding one of the pins as outlined in the Dallas specs, wiped out anything in the BIOS memory and then they worked.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@. ..>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Sat, November 14, 2009 3:23:22 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
>
> Ă‚
> Thanks, Lawrence,
>
> I appreciate the offer. Do you know if the 2202 will work with the 1500 series? I don't have any contact with any other GRiD collectors, and a google search came up empty. If the 2202 will work, then I think I may be able to accommodate you. I am set up to be able to burn EPROMS for a 1520. But I have to find an appropriate hard drive. I've been able to succesfully adapt the CGS420 like Shawn did, as well as three other models, a 100 Mb, a 120Mb and a 170Mb. I should be able to copy and burn the chips as I have those computers with me. I just have to find the HDD.
> This all came about as I recently came into possession of a 1535 EXP in mint condition. I only had to replace the Tadiran battery and it booted up perfectly. This model has the HDD but no floppy, so right now I don't have a way to interact with the computer in terms of file transfer. I could use PCMASTER/PCSLAVE, I suppose, as my main desktop has a serial port on it I can use, and remarkably I have installed on it a legacy 5.25" floppy as my Drive B:, just in case, so the 2202 would work. Of course I could also do it with one of my other GRiDs, which have floppy disks, but this options is a pain. I'd rather have a floppy I can attach to this unit.
> One other option I have is that I bought an old Dell 1.44 Mb floppy drive for $3.00, that is parallel port connected. I'm going to try that and see if the computer will see it. If so, that would solve my problems.
> Another option is that I do have the expansion tray for the 1535. I can just connect it and then find a legacy hardware card to insert in it that would hook up to a floppy drive in some way..
> But if these options don't work, I'll probably be looking for an appropriate HDD for you, Lawrence. If I happen to run across one in any case, I'll see if I can snag it for you.
> I snagged some 1 Mb low profile SIPP's off E-pay, four of them. I haggled the price down a lot, but I still paid too much.....meh. However, I have some other irons in the fire that may pan out in terms of getting more of those memory sticks.
> I remember that there was some kit by Pyramid(?), or somebody, where you could actually insert 16 Mb of RAM into the computer. Do you happen to recall the details on that adaptation? I have toyed with several ideas on solving this problem with the RAM. I have not been able to find any SIPP to SIMM adapters that would fit. The distance between the pin banks on the MoBo is 0.2 inches. Every adapter I ever found was at least 0.3 inches thick, and also to wide as well, interfering with both the video card and the indicator light array.
> After looking and discarding several ideas, it seems the only way to solve the problem is to actually design and produce some type of interface. I envisioned some pin inserts that would be place permanently into the SIPP slots, and all 240 wires (probably on a ribbon) would have to connect to a small board that would accept up to 4x4Mb SIMM's, which would be a lot easier to find. But this is far beyond my capabilities. I would have to get some manufacturer to do it, and would probably be prohibitively expensive. Ah,well. It's nice to dream.
> One other thing. I recently procured several new Dallas RTC 1287A chips. These are exact replacements for the ones on the GRiD computers. They came from a batch intended to be used in a bunch of old Dells in 1989, but never were used. Since they were never connected, the batteries appear to be okay. I replaced one in a 1520 I have, but the BIOS saw it as a different chip and kept asking for the BIOS password, which of course is the problem that we always ran into before, when trying to replace the 1520's RTC chip, along with the fact that you cannot use the 12887A in 16 bit machines. This is not a problem with the 1530's,a s the BIOS there allows one to replace the 1287 without a problem
> I finally talked to someone experienced in assembly language from that era who told me that he thought the issue was a security feature. Each Dallas 1287 and 1287A has its own identifier number, and the BIOS is programmed to recognize the original chip that came with that board. This semes to make some sense as GRiD's were used by the Military and NASA. He seemed to think that if you could find the code in the BIOS, it could be altered to accept the new 1287A chip, which also makes sense since the 1530 BIOS can do it. I am presently looking into doing that. I am using a disassembler to break down the BIOS code into assembly instructions. Then I will see if I can find someone who is familiar enough with this to figure out if this is truly the case.
> This is the state of my research so far, when I have time. Again, thanks for the offer. I'll get back to you on that if these other options don't work.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > While I have both of the external drives you mention I won't part with them. But what I do have is a massive
> > 5 1/4 Grid 2202 meant I imagine for one of the earlier models. It must be coveted, perhaps it's for the Grid Compass. It also has a cable for the different interface. If you have contact with any of the earlier Grid collectors who might have a GRid external 15xx fdd or two, perhaps you could arrange a 3rd party trade.
> >
> > Ă‚ In return I would want a working HDD for the Grid 1520, preferably a larger HD and altered BIOS chips.
> >  I think that would be a good trade for all concerned. The 2202, like the C-64 and other computers, has 2 ports meant for chaining drives and well worth 2 fdds for you in exchange because of it's rarity.
> >
> > Ă‚  As for the SIPPs, you might try a post on the Vintage Computer Forum. After long unfruitful searches on E-Pay for them I managed to get 8 (for my 2 1520s) there from a guy in Belgium. I think the main criteria is Standard or Low Profile SIPPS. I don't think there were many higher than Standard SIPPS produced. The ones I got worked fine. I ran Win3.1 with extended memory with them. You could measure the clearance between the socket and the cover to ensure they would fit in the case.
> >
> > Lawrence
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads. yahoo.com/ ca/internetexplo rer/
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>       ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now
> http://ca.toolbar. yahoo.com.
>





      __________________________________________________________________
Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/

Yahoo! Message number: 2056
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:47:45 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re:

      The discussion seems to reflect the differences between the two computers. The PS1/PS2 probably had different BIOS code to handle the Dallas RTC, which may account for its different behavior in those computers. The references to the MCA site do list the Dallas RTC characteristics that we've seen before.
      However, I am curious how you managed to use the RESET pin to clear the password from your 1520. I have never heard of this happening, and all the research I have done on the GRiD says this isn't possible. Nobody else has been able to do this that I know. I have tried shorting the pins myself on several occasions with no effect on the BIOS password loop. So I am interested on how you managed to do it. According to the 12887 spec sheet you provided, the procedure described says this:

        "The RCLR pin is used to clear (set to logic 1) all 114
bytes of general purpose RAM but does not affect the RAM associated with the real-time clock. In order to clear the RAM, RCLR must be forced to an input logic 0 (-0.3V to +0.8V) during battery-backup mode
when VCC is not applied. The RCLR function is designed to be used via human interface (shorting to ground manually or by switch) and not to be driven with external buffers. For a complete description of operating conditions, electrical characteristics, bus timing and pin
descriptions other than RCLR , see the DS12887 data sheet."

        The ground is pin 12, RESET is pin 18, and RCLR is 21. I've tried shorting both of these last two pins to ground and was never able to get the password loop to disappear. All the sources I looked at on the 1287 in any computer tells me that once you are locked in this loop, the only thing you can do is replace the RTC, which of course is the conundrum since that was what was done in the first place. The 12887 has 64K more RAM, reflecting its adaptation to a 32 bit machine and its unusability to a 16 bit machine, but I am not sure these specs would apply to a 1287, despite the fact the pin placements are exactly the same. The difference between the 1287 and 1287A is only the RESET pin, which on the 1287 is simply disconnected. The GRiD wasn't intended to originally use the 1287A, but I see no reason why it could not be used. Anyway, I would like to know how you managed to get rid of this problem. Thanks.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 1:38:36 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
>
>  There is an interesting discussion going on in the Vintage Computer Forum regarding problems with replacing the Dallas chip in some IBM PS1/PS2 s
>  http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?t=18169
> It also references a MCA Mafia site with some references to the Dallas 1287
>  http://www.tavi.co.uk/ps2pages/battery.html#8509237
> notably that the "A" on these models eg: 1287A designated that they had a reset pin to erase the BIOS which was crucial on the Grid to get rid of an unwanted password, which I used successfully on my 1520. Could that have been the problem with the Grid security issues ? I don't recall the number on my chip but it did have a reset ground pin combination which I filed in the files archive, quoting from the Dallas page. There was also some mention by a former Grid tech posted about a common password
> reset which could be supplied to customers having problems.
>
> Lawrence

Yahoo! Message number: 2057
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:36:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
text/plain; charset=utf-8

 It has been many years since I did this and I can't remember the process. All I remember is that I followed the process described by Dallas and it worked. For some reason pin 22 sticks in my mind, but it could have been pin 21.This was done on the original Dallas chip not a 12887 replacement. I could have also grounded the pin to an available ground point, but I think it was another pin, likely pin 12. I was so confident in it's results I posted the Dallas specs. I haven't read the Dallas file for many years but it did specify the "A' chip as having a reset.

 The PS/2 suggests another chip(I forget the #) as replacement, not the 12887. could that also work ? The common thread is losing the time, which was never a problem on my 1520s. I simply entered the correct time. I also don't recall any problem with the 2K barrier related to the use of 2digit year identifiers. My 2 1520s were branded for the Canadian Post office and used by sales representatives and I imagine other staff. That must have been a major sale for Grid. Could there be some differences in the
models ? They both also used DecNet in phone transmissions to the central office.

Lawrence




________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 7:47:45 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:


The discussion seems to reflect the differences between the two computers. The PS1/PS2 probably had different BIOS code to handle the Dallas RTC, which may account for its different behavior in those computers. The references to the MCA site do list the Dallas RTC characteristics that we've seen before.
However, I am curious how you managed to use the RESET pin to clear the password from your 1520. I have never heard of this happening, and all the research I have done on the GRiD says this isn't possible. Nobody else has been able to do this that I know. I have tried shorting the pins myself on several occasions with no effect on the BIOS password loop. So I am interested on how you managed to do it. According to the 12887 spec sheet you provided, the procedure described says this:

"The RCLR pin is used to clear (set to logic 1) all 114
bytes of general purpose RAM but does not affect the RAM associated with the real-time clock. In order to clear the RAM, RCLR must be forced to an input logic 0 (-0.3V to +0.8V) during battery-backup mode
when VCC is not applied. The RCLR function is designed to be used via human interface (shorting to ground manually or by switch) and not to be driven with external buffers. For a complete description of operating conditions, electrical characteristics, bus timing and pin
descriptions other than RCLR , see the DS12887 data sheet."

The ground is pin 12, RESET is pin 18, and RCLR is 21. I've tried shorting both of these last two pins to ground and was never able to get the password loop to disappear. All the sources I looked at on the 1287 in any computer tells me that once you are locked in this loop, the only thing you can do is replace the RTC, which of course is the conundrum since that was what was done in the first place. The 12887 has 64K more RAM, reflecting its adaptation to a 32 bit machine and its unusability to a 16 bit machine, but I am not sure these specs would apply to a 1287, despite the fact the pin placements are exactly the same. The difference between the 1287 and 1287A is only the RESET pin, which on the 1287 is simply disconnected. The GRiD wasn't intended to originally use the 1287A, but I see no reason why it could not be used. Anyway, I would like to know how you managed to get rid of this problem. Thanks.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@ ...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@. ..>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 1:38:36 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
>
>  There is an interesting discussion going on in the Vintage Computer Forum regarding problems with replacing the Dallas chip in some IBM PS1/PS2 s
> http://www.vintage- computer. com/vcforum/ showthread. php?t=18169
> It also references a MCA Mafia site with some references to the Dallas 1287
> http://www.tavi. co.uk/ps2pages/ battery.html# 8509237
> notably that the "A" on these models eg: 1287A designated that they had a reset pin to erase the BIOS which was crucial on the Grid to get rid of an unwanted password, which I used successfully on my 1520. Could that have been the problem with the Grid security issues ? I don't recall the number on my chip but it did have a reset ground pin combination which I filed in the files archive, quoting from the Dallas page. There was also some mention by a former Grid tech posted about a common password
> reset which could be supplied to customers having problems.
>
> Lawrence





      __________________________________________________________________
Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/

Yahoo! Message number: 2058
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:58:33 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re:

I see,

So is the process recomended by Dallas described somewhere? Maybe I'm just not following the right procedure. I simply did what the spec sheet said you could do to clear the RAM and reset the clock, but maybe there was something else involved. It's just that I am not sure just Resetting or clearing the RAM is sufficient to clear the passsword question out.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...> wrote:
>
>  It has been many years since I did this and I can't remember the process. All I remember is that I followed the process described by Dallas and it worked. For some reason pin 22 sticks in my mind, but it could have been pin 21.This was done on the original Dallas chip not a 12887 replacement. I could have also grounded the pin to an available ground point, but I think it was another pin, likely pin 12. I was so confident in it's results I posted the Dallas specs. I haven't read the Dallas file for many years but it did specify the "A' chip as having a reset.
>
>  The PS/2 suggests another chip(I forget the #) as replacement, not the 12887. could that also work ? The common thread is losing the time, which was never a problem on my 1520s. I simply entered the correct time. I also don't recall any problem with the 2K barrier related to the use of 2digit year identifiers. My 2 1520s were branded for the Canadian Post office and used by sales representatives and I imagine other staff. That must have been a major sale for Grid. Could there be some differences in the
> models ? They both also used DecNet in phone transmissions to the central office.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 7:47:45 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
>
>
> The discussion seems to reflect the differences between the two computers. The PS1/PS2 probably had different BIOS code to handle the Dallas RTC, which may account for its different behavior in those computers. The references to the MCA site do list the Dallas RTC characteristics that we've seen before.
> However, I am curious how you managed to use the RESET pin to clear the password from your 1520. I have never heard of this happening, and all the research I have done on the GRiD says this isn't possible. Nobody else has been able to do this that I know. I have tried shorting the pins myself on several occasions with no effect on the BIOS password loop. So I am interested on how you managed to do it. According to the 12887 spec sheet you provided, the procedure described says this:
>
> "The RCLR pin is used to clear (set to logic 1) all 114
> bytes of general purpose RAM but does not affect the RAM associated with the real-time clock. In order to clear the RAM, RCLR must be forced to an input logic 0 (-0.3V to +0.8V) during battery-backup mode
> when VCC is not applied. The RCLR function is designed to be used via human interface (shorting to ground manually or by switch) and not to be driven with external buffers. For a complete description of operating conditions, electrical characteristics, bus timing and pin
> descriptions other than RCLR , see the DS12887 data sheet."
>
> The ground is pin 12, RESET is pin 18, and RCLR is 21. I've tried shorting both of these last two pins to ground and was never able to get the password loop to disappear. All the sources I looked at on the 1287 in any computer tells me that once you are locked in this loop, the only thing you can do is replace the RTC, which of course is the conundrum since that was what was done in the first place. The 12887 has 64K more RAM, reflecting its adaptation to a 32 bit machine and its unusability to a 16 bit machine, but I am not sure these specs would apply to a 1287, despite the fact the pin placements are exactly the same. The difference between the 1287 and 1287A is only the RESET pin, which on the 1287 is simply disconnected. The GRiD wasn't intended to originally use the 1287A, but I see no reason why it could not be used. Anyway, I would like to know how you managed to get rid of this problem. Thanks.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@ ..>
> > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 1:38:36 PM
> > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re:
> >
> >  There is an interesting discussion going on in the Vintage Computer Forum regarding problems with replacing the Dallas chip in some IBM PS1/PS2 s
> > http://www.vintage- computer. com/vcforum/ showthread. php?t=18169
> > It also references a MCA Mafia site with some references to the Dallas 1287
> > http://www.tavi. co.uk/ps2pages/ battery.html# 8509237
> > notably that the "A" on these models eg: 1287A designated that they had a reset pin to erase the BIOS which was crucial on the Grid to get rid of an unwanted password, which I used successfully on my 1520. Could that have been the problem with the Grid security issues ? I don't recall the number on my chip but it did have a reset ground pin combination which I filed in the files archive, quoting from the Dallas page. There was also some mention by a former Grid tech posted about a common password
> > reset which could be supplied to customers having problems.
> >
> > Lawrence
>
>
>
>
>
>       __________________________________________________________________
> Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2059
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 23:12:15 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Progress on the Dallas DS 1287 RTC dilemma

Okay guys,

How many of you are having the same problem I am having with replacing the Dallas DS1287 chip on a 1520 motherboard and running into the interminable password problem? I think I may have an answer to this. I have been able to secure the services of an assembly coder who has looked at the BIOS code and he has informed me of the following:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
1) The subroutines asking the for the BIOS passsword appear to be at the following addresses in the BIOS code:

seg000:0CC2                 call    sub_737B
seg000:0CC5                 call    sub_71D2
seg000:0CC8                 call    sub_723A
seg000:0CCB                 jnb     short loc_CE3
seg000:0CCD                 call    sub_7291
seg000:0CD0                 jnb     short loc_CE3
seg000:0CD2                 call    loc_72D8
seg000:0CD5                 mov     ds, word ptr cs:0C5E6h
seg000:0CDA                 mov     ds:word_72, 1234h
seg000:0CE0                 jmp     loc_A6

Notes:   (1) The subroutine called for at 000:0CC2 (also cs:0CC2 BTW) calls for the routine at address cs:737B to input the password from the keyboard.

         (2) The subroutine called for at cs:0CC5 is a subroutine that does something with preparing to compare the entered password with what is stored in the computer. In and of itself it isn't important.

         (3) The subroutine called for at 0CC8 compares the entered string from the keyboard to the stored password and determines if it is valid.

         (4) If the password is valid, the carry flag will be cleared. The instruction at 0CCB is a conditional jump. If the carry flag is NOT cleared (Password failed), then the computer issues the string to the keyboard, "Invalid password; Press any key". Once a keystroke is entered, the computer then jumps to the instruction at location 0CE3 (cs:0CE3), which executes a reboot, which then creates the endless loop problem.

         (5) The next instruction at cs:0CCD apparently calls for the the subroutine that accesses the date from the real time clock and processes it in some manner (I haven't gotten an explanation of that subroutine, and I don't know enough about assembly to parse that out without really pulling all my books out and taking the time to do it, which I don't have right now.), but it isn't important for the purpose at hand.

         (6) The instruction at cs:0CD0 again calls for a conditional jump. I'm not sure why but it probably has nothing to do with the BIOS password, and therefore is not that important to this discussion. It should not be a problem here.

         (7) If both of these conditional jumps are satisfied, the reading of code continues to the next instruction at cs:0CD2 which sets the cursor position, then calls for movement of some data from the BIOS into certain registers and then at cs:0CE0, calls for the execution of the subroutine at location 00A6 (cs:00A6), which seems to be the reading in of data from the real time clock into the processors and using it. The computer should then continue to boot up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

The final routine for comparison of the entered password with what is stored is as follows from my source: (These are his words)

I have found out that:
  - the password can be up to 8 bytes.
  - Is stored at cs:F0FC in the eeprom (xor'd)
  ? if the password doesn't match, there is a backdoor.
  ? the backdoor is the current date in YYMMDD form

I am not exactly sure about the last two. They might work.

(BTW, I did try them. They didn't work. Also address F0FCh does not exist, but may simply be a mask for 70FCh, which is what we are thinking.)

The call at 0CC8 checks the password you entered.

00000CC8 E86F65           call  00000723Ah

0000723A 50               push ax
0000723B 51               push cx
0000723C 52               push dx
0000723D 56               push si
0000723E 57               push di
0000723F 1E               push ds
00007240 06               push es
00007241 FC               cld
00007242 B97000           mov cx,0070h
00007245 8EC1             mov es,cx
00007247 33FF             xor di,di
00007249 8ED9             mov ds,cx
0000724B BE0800           mov si,0008h
0000724E E8CFFF           call 000007220h

; create password from user entered and saved at cs:F0FCh (70FCh)
00007220 53               push bx
00007221 51               push cx
00007222 BBFCF0           mov bx,0F0FCh  ; <------ 70FCh
00007225 B90800           mov cx,0008h
00007228 2E8A07           mov al,cs:[bx]
0000722B 268A25           mov ah,es:[di]
0000722E 32C4             xor al,ah
00007230 8804             mov [si],al
00007232 47               inc di
00007233 46               inc si
00007234 43               inc bx
00007235 E2F1             loop 000007228h
00007237 59               pop cx
00007238 5B               pop bx
00007239 C3               ret

00007251 BF1000           mov di,0010h
00007254 8CC0             mov ax,es
00007256 8ED8             mov ds,ax
00007258 B034             mov al,34h
0000725A 8AE0             mov ah,al
0000725C B90800           mov cx,0008h
0000725F E800D5           call  000004762h

00004762 52               push dx
00004763 BA7000           mov dx,0070h
00004766 E81F00           call 000004788h

00004788 C3               ret
00004769 FA               cli
0000476A EE               out dx,al
0000476B 42               inc dx
0000476C EB00             jmp 00000476Eh
0000476E EB00             jmp 000004770h
00004770 EC               in al,dx
00004771 5A               pop dx
00004772 C3               ret

00007262 AA               stosb
00007263 FEC4             inc ah
00007265 8AC4             mov al,ah
00007267 E2F6             loop 00000725Fh

00007269 BF1000           mov di,0010h
0000726C BE0800           mov si,0008h
0000726F E87701           call  0000073E9h  ; compare string

000073E9 B90800           mov cx,0008h
000073EC F3A6             repe cmpsb
000073EE 7403             jz 0000073F3h
000073F0 F9               stc
000073F1 EB01             jmp 0000073F4h
000073F3 F8               clc
000073F4 C3               ret

00007272 07               pop es
00007273 1F               pop ds
00007274 5F               pop di
00007275 5E               pop si
00007276 5A               pop dx
00007277 59               pop cx
00007278 58               pop ax
00007279 C3               ret

; Here the carry flag will be clear if the password was
;  entered correctly.  (A correct password)


This is the code that the BIOS uses to 'create' a password check
from the (max) 8 bytes you entered.  If the value at 70FCh is

000070FC db  5Bh, 44h, 5Eh, 68h, 7Dh, 5Fh, 7Ch, 4Dh (....[D^h}_|M....)

Then reverse the process above and you should be able to get
the password needed.

Also, it looks like the password is stored in the CMOS chip
at offset 34h, read 8 times.  If you can read in this register
8 times, viewing what the result it, this will tell you what
the password is, xor'ed using the code above.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

So basically, what this tells us is that the "password" is stored at in the memory of the DS1287 at Offset 34h. But this is not the actual password. What the routine does is that it takes the true password and XOR's it against the 8 byte data section in the BIOS starting at address cs:70FCh. It takes the result of each operation for all eight bytes and stores them on the CMOS chip. So in order to get the real password, you have to take what is stored on the DS1287, reverse the XOR process against the BIOS byte at cs:70CFh, and that will reveal the actual password that should be entered.

So where does that take us? We have two options.

(1) The first option is to find or write some program that will directly dump out the contents of the memory of the Dallas DS 1287 RTC chip. This will give us the data at offset 34h in the memory. Take those 8 bytes and do a reverse XOR calculation against the data byte at BIOS address cs:70FCh, and this should reveal the actual password.

(2) The second option suggested by my source is to rewrite the BIOS code directly and bypass this subroutine altogether, assuming that nobody wants to keep the BIOS password option around. This would require burning two new EPROM BIOS chips. The changes in the code should be as follows: (His words)
-------------------------------------------------------------
You will need to burn the modified bios to a chip, so do you
have some spares to try?  If so, do the following:

In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:

 offset       from       to
0x0CC2        0xE8      0x90
0x0CC3        0xB6      0x90
0x0CC4        0x66      0x90

0x0CC8        0xE8      0x90
0x0CC9        0x6F      0x90
0x0CCA        0x65      0x90

0x0CCB        0x73      0xEB
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This will skip the password stuff altogether. What this does exactly is that the call for the subroutine at 737B is cancelled. The computer never asks for the password. The code for no operation (90h) is substituted for the command and the address over those three bytes. The call for the routine at 0CC5 then becomes meaningless and unimportant, but does no damage and can be ignored. The call for subroutine at cs:723A is also cancelled, again substituting no operation codes in its place. This bypasses the comparison of an entered password to the stored password altogether. The critical code that is substituted at cs:0CCB is wherethe conditional jump that would have failed the password check and rebooted the machine is located. The substitution code (EB) signals only a short jump, I believe, to the next instruction, which should continue the rest of the checks on downward and continue to boot the machine up completely to the OS.

This will require burning new BIOS chips to try this. I don't have any right now, but I am expecting some within a couple of days and I plan on trying this. For anyone else who wants to try this, remember to adjust the databytes at the very beginning of the BIOS code file to keep the checksum on each chip the same as before. (If you're not sure of this, see Shawn's instructions on altering the BIOS code for a different hard drive.)

However, I also wanted to ask if anyone out there is able to write a program, or knows how to get one, which will dump out the memory of the DS1287, as that could be quite helpful as well.

Anyway, I hope some of you guys can develop this out a little more. I'll let you know what I find out.

Phil

Yahoo! Message number: 2060
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:28:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Progress on the Dallas DS 1287 RTC dilemma

Wow, Phil! 
VERY good information!!

One of the backdoor's listed is to enter the date in YYMMDD format.  The problem with this is I'm sure it is the YYMMDD relative to the chip.  Because you have no idea what the RTC thinks the date is, it is hit or miss.  I cannot remember what the default date is on the Grid when the date/time information has been lost.  I think it's December 1, 1980.  HHmmm January 1, 1980 seems to make more sense.
Anyway, execellent work Phil!

Side question: I would really like to know *how* your contact was able to do this.  I want to learn.
My guess is something similar is going on with the Conner hard drive detection (XOR of some value) as well as the EPROM checksum.

Thank you very much!
-Shawn 



----- Original Message ----
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, December 7, 2009 6:12:15 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Progress on the Dallas DS 1287 RTC dilemma

Okay guys,

How many of you are having the same problem I am having with replacing the Dallas DS1287 chip on a 1520 motherboard and running into the interminable password problem? I think I may have an answer to this. I have been able to secure the services of an assembly coder who has looked at the BIOS code and he has informed me of the following:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
1) The subroutines asking the for the BIOS passsword appear to be at the following addresses in the BIOS code:

seg000:0CC2                call    sub_737B
seg000:0CC5                call    sub_71D2
seg000:0CC8                call    sub_723A
seg000:0CCB                jnb    short loc_CE3
seg000:0CCD                call    sub_7291
seg000:0CD0                jnb    short loc_CE3
seg000:0CD2                call    loc_72D8
seg000:0CD5                mov    ds, word ptr cs:0C5E6h
seg000:0CDA                mov    ds:word_72, 1234h
seg000:0CE0                jmp    loc_A6

Notes:  (1) The subroutine called for at 000:0CC2 (also cs:0CC2 BTW) calls for the routine at address cs:737B to input the password from the keyboard.

        (2) The subroutine called for at cs:0CC5 is a subroutine that does something with preparing to compare the entered password with what is stored in the computer. In and of itself it isn't important.

        (3) The subroutine called for at 0CC8 compares the entered string from the keyboard to the stored password and determines if it is valid.

        (4) If the password is valid, the carry flag will be cleared. The instruction at 0CCB is a conditional jump. If the carry flag is NOT cleared (Password failed), then the computer issues the string to the keyboard, "Invalid password; Press any key". Once a keystroke is entered, the computer then jumps to the instruction at location 0CE3 (cs:0CE3), which executes a reboot, which then creates the endless loop problem.

        (5) The next instruction at cs:0CCD apparently calls for the the subroutine that accesses the date from the real time clock and processes it in some manner (I haven't gotten an explanation of that subroutine, and I don't know enough about assembly to parse that out without really pulling all my books out and taking the time to do it, which I don't have right now.), but it isn't important for the purpose at hand.

        (6) The instruction at cs:0CD0 again calls for a conditional jump. I'm not sure why but it probably has nothing to do with the BIOS password, and therefore is not that important to this discussion. It should not be a problem here.

        (7) If both of these conditional jumps are satisfied, the reading of code continues to the next instruction at cs:0CD2 which sets the cursor position, then calls for movement of some data from the BIOS into certain registers and then at cs:0CE0, calls for the execution of the subroutine at location 00A6 (cs:00A6), which seems to be the reading in of data from the real time clock into the processors and using it. The computer should then continue to boot up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

The final routine for comparison of the entered password with what is stored is as follows from my source: (These are his words)

I have found out that:
  - the password can be up to 8 bytes.
  - Is stored at cs:F0FC in the eeprom (xor'd)
  ? if the password doesn't match, there is a backdoor.
  ? the backdoor is the current date in YYMMDD form

I am not exactly sure about the last two. They might work.

(BTW, I did try them. They didn't work. Also address F0FCh does not exist, but may simply be a mask for 70FCh, which is what we are thinking.)

The call at 0CC8 checks the password you entered.

00000CC8 E86F65          call  00000723Ah

0000723A 50              push ax
0000723B 51              push cx
0000723C 52              push dx
0000723D 56              push si
0000723E 57              push di
0000723F 1E              push ds
00007240 06              push es
00007241 FC              cld
00007242 B97000          mov cx,0070h
00007245 8EC1            mov es,cx
00007247 33FF            xor di,di
00007249 8ED9            mov ds,cx
0000724B BE0800          mov si,0008h
0000724E E8CFFF          call 000007220h

; create password from user entered and saved at cs:F0FCh (70FCh)
00007220 53              push bx
00007221 51              push cx
00007222 BBFCF0          mov bx,0F0FCh  ; <------ 70FCh
00007225 B90800          mov cx,0008h
00007228 2E8A07          mov al,cs:[bx]
0000722B 268A25          mov ah,es:[di]
0000722E 32C4            xor al,ah
00007230 8804            mov [si],al
00007232 47              inc di
00007233 46              inc si
00007234 43              inc bx
00007235 E2F1            loop 000007228h
00007237 59              pop cx
00007238 5B              pop bx
00007239 C3              ret

00007251 BF1000          mov di,0010h
00007254 8CC0            mov ax,es
00007256 8ED8            mov ds,ax
00007258 B034            mov al,34h
0000725A 8AE0            mov ah,al
0000725C B90800          mov cx,0008h
0000725F E800D5          call  000004762h

00004762 52              push dx
00004763 BA7000          mov dx,0070h
00004766 E81F00          call 000004788h

00004788 C3              ret
00004769 FA              cli
0000476A EE              out dx,al
0000476B 42              inc dx
0000476C EB00            jmp 00000476Eh
0000476E EB00            jmp 000004770h
00004770 EC              in al,dx
00004771 5A              pop dx
00004772 C3              ret

00007262 AA              stosb
00007263 FEC4            inc ah
00007265 8AC4            mov al,ah
00007267 E2F6            loop 00000725Fh

00007269 BF1000          mov di,0010h
0000726C BE0800          mov si,0008h
0000726F E87701          call  0000073E9h  ; compare string

000073E9 B90800          mov cx,0008h
000073EC F3A6            repe cmpsb
000073EE 7403            jz 0000073F3h
000073F0 F9              stc
000073F1 EB01            jmp 0000073F4h
000073F3 F8              clc
000073F4 C3              ret

00007272 07              pop es
00007273 1F              pop ds
00007274 5F              pop di
00007275 5E              pop si
00007276 5A              pop dx
00007277 59              pop cx
00007278 58              pop ax
00007279 C3              ret

; Here the carry flag will be clear if the password was
;  entered correctly.  (A correct password)


This is the code that the BIOS uses to 'create' a password check
from the (max) 8 bytes you entered.  If the value at 70FCh is

000070FC db  5Bh, 44h, 5Eh, 68h, 7Dh, 5Fh, 7Ch, 4Dh (....[D^h}_|M....)

Then reverse the process above and you should be able to get
the password needed.

Also, it looks like the password is stored in the CMOS chip
at offset 34h, read 8 times.  If you can read in this register
8 times, viewing what the result it, this will tell you what
the password is, xor'ed using the code above.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

So basically, what this tells us is that the "password" is stored at in the memory of the DS1287 at Offset 34h. But this is not the actual password. What the routine does is that it takes the true password and XOR's it against the 8 byte data section in the BIOS starting at address cs:70FCh. It takes the result of each operation for all eight bytes and stores them on the CMOS chip. So in order to get the real password, you have to take what is stored on the DS1287, reverse the XOR process against the BIOS byte at cs:70CFh, and that will reveal the actual password that should be entered.

So where does that take us? We have two options.

(1) The first option is to find or write some program that will directly dump out the contents of the memory of the Dallas DS 1287 RTC chip. This will give us the data at offset 34h in the memory. Take those 8 bytes and do a reverse XOR calculation against the data byte at BIOS address cs:70FCh, and this should reveal the actual password.

(2) The second option suggested by my source is to rewrite the BIOS code directly and bypass this subroutine altogether, assuming that nobody wants to keep the BIOS password option around. This would require burning two new EPROM BIOS chips. The changes in the code should be as follows: (His words)
-------------------------------------------------------------
You will need to burn the modified bios to a chip, so do you
have some spares to try?  If so, do the following:

In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:

offset      from      to
0x0CC2        0xE8      0x90
0x0CC3        0xB6      0x90
0x0CC4        0x66      0x90

0x0CC8        0xE8      0x90
0x0CC9        0x6F      0x90
0x0CCA        0x65      0x90

0x0CCB        0x73      0xEB
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This will skip the password stuff altogether. What this does exactly is that the call for the subroutine at 737B is cancelled. The computer never asks for the password. The code for no operation (90h) is substituted for the command and the address over those three bytes. The call for the routine at 0CC5 then becomes meaningless and unimportant, but does no damage and can be ignored. The call for subroutine at cs:723A is also cancelled, again substituting no operation codes in its place. This bypasses the comparison of an entered password to the stored password altogether. The critical code that is substituted at cs:0CCB is wherethe conditional jump that would have failed the password check and rebooted the machine is located. The substitution code (EB) signals only a short jump, I believe, to the next instruction, which should continue the rest of the checks on downward and continue to boot the machine up completely to the OS.

This will require burning new BIOS chips to try this. I don't have any right now, but I am expecting some within a couple of days and I plan on trying this. For anyone else who wants to try this, remember to adjust the databytes at the very beginning of the BIOS code file to keep the checksum on each chip the same as before. (If you're not sure of this, see Shawn's instructions on altering the BIOS code for a different hard drive.)

However, I also wanted to ask if anyone out there is able to write a program, or knows how to get one, which will dump out the memory of the DS1287, as that could be quite helpful as well.

Anyway, I hope some of you guys can develop this out a little more. I'll let you know what I find out.

Phil





------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2061
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 01:20:34 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Progress on the Dallas DS 1287 RTC dilemma

Hi, Shawn,

        Thanks! If I remember correctly, on those computers where I successfully did the external battery procedure on the DS1287 and successfully booted them back up, I think the default date was indeed January 1, 1980, when it asked for me to enter the current date and time. But I fired up the 1520 I have in which I replaced the DS1287 and this backdoor didn't work either. On a lark, I tried the date listed in the BIOS version message as well, and it didn't work either.

        As to my contact, he is a programmer with many years of experience in assembly programming and other computing programming, who I found on the web with a web page for DOS software when I was looking for some programs. He is for hire doing assembly programming as well as programming in other languages. My impression is he knows the coding extremely well and can tell at a quick look what a group of instructions is calling for. I can see how that can be, as I can look at code and every now and then I can tell from a group of instructions what the code is asking for, but I'm a rank amateur compared to what this guy apparently can do.(He said he's been doing it ever since he was something like 8 years old.) Anyway, I thought it was possible to do this with him because 32 Kb of code is really a very small piece of coding to look at. It shouldn't take long at all.

        As to learning how to do it, this is something I tried back in the 80's. I got the assembly language textbooks and just started going through it, learning as I went along, reading code, understanding what each separate instruction did, how to put them together, understanding the past conventions of coding already in place, etc. I just couldn't stay with it as real life got in the way, and I had to put it aside. But I would really love to learn it too. I just don't have the time.

        I have engaged his services, although so far, he has been very kind and not actually charged me anything, just taking a very quick look at the code. Once we crack this (hopefully), I am thinking of asking him to completely decode the BIOS and send the actual instruction sequences with descriptions, depending on what he might charge me. The cool thing about that is if we can get it decoded, we might be able to do our own alterations and modify the uses of the machines as needed. Of course, we are stuck with only 32 kB to use, but I did notice there seems to be quite a bit of empty space (Look at all of the FF place holders in there.) But with the addition of the ROM chip space on top of the video card, that opens up a whole new world of possibilities. So it is definitely something worth considering.

        My next step is trying this alteration of the code to bypass the password code. We'll see where it goes from there.

        But do you know of, or can you create, a program that will dump the memory of the DS1287? I think I saw a spec sheet on the DS1287 at some point which lists at what addresses crucial bits of information go, including the hard drive info, but I can't find it. If we could get a dump of the chip's memory, that will help out tremendously. Then we could get that data and see where the checksum and hard drive detection data is located and see what the values are.

        The BIOS code should tell us where the data bytes are for comparison, if that data is XOR'd as well, although I doubt it. The reason the password was XOR'd had to be for security purposes. If somebody could just dump the contents of the DS1287, and the password was there, it would be simple to defeat, but this way, one is required to dump both the DS1287 and the BIOS and do the reverse of the XOR operation to get the password, and they would have to be skilled in assembly coding to find the code that told you how to do it, or even know in the first place that they did something like that in the first place. It just makes it much more difficult to defeat the password encryption. There is no need to do that, it would seem, to the other data in the CMOS. But I admit it is possible.

Until the next report. *grin*

Phil



--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Wow, Phil! 
> VERY good information!!
>
> One of the backdoor's listed is to enter the date in YYMMDD format.  The problem with this is I'm sure it is the YYMMDD relative to the chip.  Because you have no idea what the RTC thinks the date is, it is hit or miss.  I cannot remember what the default date is on the Grid when the date/time information has been lost.  I think it's December 1, 1980.  HHmmm January 1, 1980 seems to make more sense.
> Anyway, execellent work Phil!
>
> Side question: I would really like to know *how* your contact was able to do this.  I want to learn.
> My guess is something similar is going on with the Conner hard drive detection (XOR of some value) as well as the EPROM checksum.
>
> Thank you very much!
> -Shawn 
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2062
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 20:00:18 -0000
From: "ansoneinstein@..."
Subject: Re: GRiDcase 1520, Time of Day clock stopped.

Sorry about my response time.

When I turn the Grid on, I hear the hdd spin up, followed by one click (like the head is going to it's default position) and then it makes noise as if it were trying to read data for just a few seconds.

During this time, the hdd light is on, and the screen is blank.
Then after about 20 sec, the screen displays the bios info, and it hangs...

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Charles Ford <charlieford1@...> wrote:
>
> Anson:
>
> Do you hear the HDD startup,  whir and rattle?

Yahoo! Message number: 2063
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 22:02:58 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Success!!! The password problem is solved!

Hey, guys! IT WORKED!!

Here are the changes again to apply to the BIOS:
----------------------------------------------
In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:

offset from to
0x0CC2 0xE8 0x90
0x0CC3 0xB6 0x90
0x0CC4 0x66 0x90

0x0CC8 0xE8 0x90
0x0CC9 0x6F 0x90
0x0CCA 0x65 0x90

0x0CCB 0x73 0xEB

Be sure to alter a few of of the very first bytes of the code for each chip to get the checksums back to where they belong, then burn the new EPROMS.
----------------------------------------------
What this does is totally bypass the password routine, as if you had successfully answered the question. When I placed these modified chips into the computer and booted up, I again get the same question asking for the password..........for about a second, and then it goes on as if I had answered it correctly and asks for the time and date. Once those are entered, it launches the C: prompt. I had total access to the computer at that point. Now, I am not sure I will be completely out of the woods yet. I am not sure of the data on the new 1287 chip, one reason being I ran Brutmans' HDLOOK program and it gave me data on TWO HD. (I only have one), so I think I need to get a program that will read the registers in the 1287 and see if maybe I can dump them and/or modify them as needed. But for now, it seems that it should work just fine. The computer worked completely normal for me overall.

So if any of you have the password problem with using a new 1287 or 1287A in a 1520 computer, (since we can't use the 12887 chips in a 16 bit machine, this solution will get you past the password problem.

Yahoo! Message number: 2064
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 14:16:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!

WOW!!  Congratulations!  Great work, Phil!

hdlook returns two hard drives.  That's normal. There is a specific reason for that.  Mike told me the reason, but I can't remember.

Mike: L'il help here?  Thanks. :-)
-Shawn



----- Original Message ----
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 5:02:58 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!

Hey, guys! IT WORKED!!

Here are the changes again to apply to the BIOS:
----------------------------------------------
In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:

offset from to
0x0CC2 0xE8 0x90
0x0CC3 0xB6 0x90
0x0CC4 0x66 0x90

0x0CC8 0xE8 0x90
0x0CC9 0x6F 0x90
0x0CCA 0x65 0x90

0x0CCB 0x73 0xEB

Be sure to alter a few of of the very first bytes of the code for each chip to get the checksums back to where they belong, then burn the new EPROMS.
----------------------------------------------
What this does is totally bypass the password routine, as if you had successfully answered the question. When I placed these modified chips into the computer and booted up, I again get the same question asking for the password..........for about a second, and then it goes on as if I had answered it correctly and asks for the time and date. Once those are entered, it launches the C: prompt. I had total access to the computer at that point. Now, I am not sure I will be completely out of the woods yet. I am not sure of the data on the new 1287 chip, one reason being I ran Brutmans' HDLOOK program and it gave me data on TWO HD. (I only have one), so I think I need to get a program that will read the registers in the 1287 and see if maybe I can dump them and/or modify them as needed. But for now, it seems that it should work just fine. The computer worked completely normal for me overall.

So if any of you have the password problem with using a new 1287 or 1287A in a 1520 computer, (since we can't use the 12887 chips in a 16 bit machine, this solution will get you past the password problem.




------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2065
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:15:59 -0600
From: Michael Brutman
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!

I'm actually lurking in the background ...  I've not forsaken you guys. :-)

The first set of output from hdlook is the bytes from the CMOS area.  
The CMOS has room for two drives.  Type zero is 'no drive', while 
anything else indicates a drive is present.

On my 386-40 with one drive the CMOS data shows drive type 1 for the 
first type, and drive type 0 for the second type.  After that it dumps 
the data for the two drives that it finds in memory.  That memory is 
usually ROM, but if you have an aftermarket controller it can be in 
RAM.  The code always dumps both entries, even though one might be bogus 
- just ignore it.

I posted a new version of hdlook.zip at 
http://www.brutman.com/hdlook.zip .  This version is the same, but it 
has source code in it.

Please catch me up on the 1287 issue .. is it just a combined CMOS/clock 
chip?  If so, it should be readily programmable by generic CMOS 
utilities for AT class machines.  If my code is reading it's contents it 
can't be too bad.


Mike


Shawnerz wrote:
> WOW!!  Congratulations!  Great work, Phil!
>
> hdlook returns two hard drives.  That's normal. There is a specific reason for that.  Mike told me the reason, but I can't remember.
>
> Mike: L'il help here?  Thanks. :-)
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 5:02:58 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
>
> Hey, guys! IT WORKED!!
>
> Here are the changes again to apply to the BIOS:
> ----------------------------------------------
> In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:
>
> offset from to
> 0x0CC2 0xE8 0x90
> 0x0CC3 0xB6 0x90
> 0x0CC4 0x66 0x90
>
> 0x0CC8 0xE8 0x90
> 0x0CC9 0x6F 0x90
> 0x0CCA 0x65 0x90
>
> 0x0CCB 0x73 0xEB
>
> Be sure to alter a few of of the very first bytes of the code for each chip to get the checksums back to where they belong, then burn the new EPROMS.
> ----------------------------------------------
> What this does is totally bypass the password routine, as if you had successfully answered the question. When I placed these modified chips into the computer and booted up, I again get the same question asking for the password..........for about a second, and then it goes on as if I had answered it correctly and asks for the time and date. Once those are entered, it launches the C: prompt. I had total access to the computer at that point. Now, I am not sure I will be completely out of the woods yet. I am not sure of the data on the new 1287 chip, one reason being I ran Brutmans' HDLOOK program and it gave me data on TWO HD. (I only have one), so I think I need to get a program that will read the registers in the 1287 and see if maybe I can dump them and/or modify them as needed. But for now, it seems that it should work just fine. The computer worked completely normal for me overall.
>
> So if any of you have the password problem with using a new 1287 or 1287A in a 1520 computer, (since we can't use the 12887 chips in a 16 bit machine, this solution will get you past the password problem.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>   

Yahoo! Message number: 2066
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:55:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!

Mike,

>Please catch me up on the 1287 issue .. is it just a combined CMOS/clock
>chip?  If so, it should be readily programmable by generic CMOS
>utilities for AT class machines. 

This might be possible, but the Grid BIOS won't allow the computer to boot unless the correct password is entered.  I'm not 100% sure on this, but the appearance is, if the internal (internal to the 1287) battery dies, the 1287 goes to some weird unitilialzed state.  When the Grid BIOS encounters this, it prompts for a password.  The BIOS will not allow the computer to boot until the proper password is entered.
We're not sure why this is.  Perhaps it was meant as a security feature.  Perhaps it was a "fall through" in a case statement.
"Oh, the battery will never die in these things...."

Thanks for the response.
-Shawn



----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Brutman <mbbrutman@...>
To: Shawnerz <shawnerz@...>
Cc: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 7:15:59 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!


I'm actually lurking in the background ...  I've not forsaken you guys. :-)

The first set of output from hdlook is the bytes from the CMOS area. 
The CMOS has room for two drives.  Type zero is 'no drive', while
anything else indicates a drive is present.

On my 386-40 with one drive the CMOS data shows drive type 1 for the
first type, and drive type 0 for the second type.  After that it dumps
the data for the two drives that it finds in memory.  That memory is
usually ROM, but if you have an aftermarket controller it can be in
RAM.  The code always dumps both entries, even though one might be bogus
- just ignore it.

I posted a new version of hdlook.zip at
http://www.brutman.com/hdlook.zip .  This version is the same, but it
has source code in it.

Please catch me up on the 1287 issue .. is it just a combined CMOS/clock
chip?  If so, it should be readily programmable by generic CMOS
utilities for AT class machines.  If my code is reading it's contents it
can't be too bad.


Mike


Shawnerz wrote:
> WOW!!  Congratulations!  Great work, Phil!
>
> hdlook returns two hard drives.  That's normal. There is a specific reason for that.  Mike told me the reason, but I can't remember.
>
> Mike: L'il help here?  Thanks. :-)
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@...m
> Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 5:02:58 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
>
> Hey, guys! IT WORKED!!
>
> Here are the changes again to apply to the BIOS:
> ----------------------------------------------
> In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:
>
> offset from to
> 0x0CC2 0xE8 0x90
> 0x0CC3 0xB6 0x90
> 0x0CC4 0x66 0x90
>
> 0x0CC8 0xE8 0x90
> 0x0CC9 0x6F 0x90
> 0x0CCA 0x65 0x90
>
> 0x0CCB 0x73 0xEB
>
> Be sure to alter a few of of the very first bytes of the code for each chip to get the checksums back to where they belong, then burn the new EPROMS.
> ----------------------------------------------
> What this does is totally bypass the password routine, as if you had successfully answered the question. When I placed these modified chips into the computer and booted up, I again get the same question asking for the password..........for about a second, and then it goes on as if I had answered it correctly and asks for the time and date. Once those are entered, it launches the C: prompt. I had total access to the computer at that point. Now, I am not sure I will be completely out of the woods yet. I am not sure of the data on the new 1287 chip, one reason being I ran Brutmans' HDLOOK program and it gave me data on TWO HD. (I only have one), so I think I need to get a program that will read the registers in the 1287 and see if maybe I can dump them and/or modify them as needed. But for now, it seems that it should work just fine. The computer worked completely normal for me overall.
>
> So if any of you have the password problem with using a new 1287 or 1287A in a 1520 computer, (since we can't use the 12887 chips in a 16 bit machine, this solution will get you past the password problem.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 




------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2067
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:30:55 -0600
From: Michael Brutman
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!

Those clock chips were supposed to have a shelf life of 10 years, so 
it's possible that somebody assumed they would always work. Most 
machines have the courtesy to report a CMOS error when the battery dies, 
so this makes the Grid truly a non-user friendly oddball. As if you guys 
didn't have enough problems with it already .. reminds me of the poor, 
abused PCjr users that I hang out with ...

So where are you at the moment? You have a work around for booting the 
machine .. do you just need someway to setup the new CMOS chip? The CMOS 
areas are pretty well defined, but there is also an area for the 
password in there somewhere that might be goofy. And I'm not sure if 
Grid followed the normal conventions for the CMOS areas. But I assume 
that there are enough working machines out there that we can dump the 
CMOS from a working one and reverse engineer the contents before you all 
lose your batteries ..


Mike



Shawnerz wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> >Please catch me up on the 1287 issue .. is it just a combined CMOS/clock
> >chip? If so, it should be readily programmable by generic CMOS
> >utilities for AT class machines.
>
> This might be possible, but the Grid BIOS won't allow the computer to 
> boot unless the correct password is entered. I'm not 100% sure on 
> this, but the appearance is, if the internal (internal to the 1287) 
> battery dies, the 1287 goes to some weird unitilialzed state. When the 
> Grid BIOS encounters this, it prompts for a password. The BIOS will 
> not allow the computer to boot until the proper password is entered.
> We're not sure why this is. Perhaps it was meant as a security 
> feature. Perhaps it was a "fall through" in a case statement.
> "Oh, the battery will never die in these things...."
>
> Thanks for the response.
> -Shawn
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Michael Brutman <mbbrutman@... <mailto:mbbrutman%40yahoo.com>>
> To: Shawnerz <shawnerz@... <mailto:shawnerz%40yahoo.com>>
> Cc: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 7:15:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
>
> I'm actually lurking in the background ... I've not forsaken you guys. :-)
>
> The first set of output from hdlook is the bytes from the CMOS area.
> The CMOS has room for two drives. Type zero is 'no drive', while
> anything else indicates a drive is present.
>
> On my 386-40 with one drive the CMOS data shows drive type 1 for the
> first type, and drive type 0 for the second type. After that it dumps
> the data for the two drives that it finds in memory. That memory is
> usually ROM, but if you have an aftermarket controller it can be in
> RAM. The code always dumps both entries, even though one might be bogus
> - just ignore it.
>
> I posted a new version of hdlook.zip at
> http://www.brutman.com/hdlook.zip <http://www.brutman.com/hdlook.zip> 
> . This version is the same, but it
> has source code in it.
>
> Please catch me up on the 1287 issue .. is it just a combined CMOS/clock
> chip? If so, it should be readily programmable by generic CMOS
> utilities for AT class machines. If my code is reading it's contents it
> can't be too bad.
>
> Mike
>
> Shawnerz wrote:
> > WOW!! Congratulations! Great work, Phil!
> >
> > hdlook returns two hard drives. That's normal. There is a specific 
> reason for that. Mike told me the reason, but I can't remember.
> >
> > Mike: L'il help here? Thanks. :-)
> > -Shawn
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@... <mailto:Jeriddian%40msn.com>>
> > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 5:02:58 PM
> > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
> >
> > Hey, guys! IT WORKED!!
> >
> > Here are the changes again to apply to the BIOS:
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:
> >
> > offset from to
> > 0x0CC2 0xE8 0x90
> > 0x0CC3 0xB6 0x90
> > 0x0CC4 0x66 0x90
> >
> > 0x0CC8 0xE8 0x90
> > 0x0CC9 0x6F 0x90
> > 0x0CCA 0x65 0x90
> >
> > 0x0CCB 0x73 0xEB
> >
> > Be sure to alter a few of of the very first bytes of the code for 
> each chip to get the checksums back to where they belong, then burn 
> the new EPROMS.
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > What this does is totally bypass the password routine, as if you had 
> successfully answered the question. When I placed these modified chips 
> into the computer and booted up, I again get the same question asking 
> for the password..........for about a second, and then it goes on as 
> if I had answered it correctly and asks for the time and date. Once 
> those are entered, it launches the C: prompt. I had total access to 
> the computer at that point. Now, I am not sure I will be completely 
> out of the woods yet. I am not sure of the data on the new 1287 chip, 
> one reason being I ran Brutmans' HDLOOK program and it gave me data on 
> TWO HD. (I only have one), so I think I need to get a program that 
> will read the registers in the 1287 and see if maybe I can dump them 
> and/or modify them as needed. But for now, it seems that it should 
> work just fine. The computer worked completely normal for me overall.
> >
> > So if any of you have the password problem with using a new 1287 or 
> 1287A in a 1520 computer, (since we can't use the 12887 chips in a 16 
> bit machine, this solution will get you past the password problem.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo>! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo>! Groups Links
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2068
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 03:38:34 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Success!!! The password problem is solved!

Hi, Mike,

I'll try and go through the password issue. Forgive me if I go over obvious stuff. In the past, when we came up against a dead 1287 in a 1520, the options were limited. The 1287's are no longer made by Dallas Semiconductor. Their replacement, the 12887 and 12887A could not used as they have twice the memory and their registers are therefore addressed diffrerently. Suffice it to say that they cannot be used on 16 bit machines, only 32 bit machines, which is why they will work fine on 1530's that have a dead 1287 in them. I have done that in one of my my 1530 machines.

So, in the 1520, the only option is to replace the dead 1287 with another 1287 or 1287A. The problem that then came up was that when that was done, the computer recognized there was a different RTC chip (probably because the password was different), and in order to boot up required the password. Now we've always assumed this to be a BIOS password, but it never made sense as there is no BIOS program to go into on a GRiD. But in any case, the computer asked for this password which nobody knew. If you failed the password attempt, the computer rebooted and went right back to the same password question, adn you ended up with an endless loop and an unbootable computer. The solution we had come up with before was to use the old 1287 chip by doing surgery on it and affixing an external battery as per Shawn's file in the file section. By using the same chip and awaking the registyers with a new battery, the computer had no problem with it and never asked the password.

You are right in the the 1287 is a combined CMOS/clock, and stores data on the hard drive, possibly the floppy drive, and a couple of other items I can't remember, as well at time and day. That's why the computer will refuse to see the hard drive when there's a dead RTC, becasue it can't get the information on the type of hard drive that's there. I once saw a layout of all the information the 1287 RTC stores, but I can't find it. I really would like to get that map again.

I knew that if we could access the actual code of the BIOS, we could alter it to bypass the password problem, which is what I did with the help of a programmer who I got to look at the code and figure it out for me. I know a little assembly language, but not enough to do this. By following the steps I outlined, the whole password question is bypassed and the code automatically steps you through as if you answered the password question successfully. The rest of the code operates exactly the same without problems. This allows people with 1520's to simply replace their dead 1287 with a fresh 1287 or 1287A. (You can get them if you know where to look, and they're not any more expensive than the 12887's really.) All they have to do is burn two BIOS EPROM's with the altered code as I have listed it and use them in the computer with the new 1287 or 1287A.

However, the computer will continue to ask for a password with that new chip in it, which will requires us to keep the altered BIOS EPROM's in it. What could resolve this further is to find out what exactly is the password in the RTC and then try putting the original chips back into the computer and then answering the password question correctly that way. It wouldn't hurt just to keep the altered BIOS chips in. The computer will work the same either way, but the boot up would be a little weird, that's all.

Mike, I've been wanting to ask you if you could come up with a small program that will dump out the contents of the 1287 registers, which will include the password (which is modified BTW). The password is eight characters long or less. It will appear as gibberish because when it is entered by the computer, the BIOS first takes the entered password and XOR's it with a data word in the BIOS code made up of nonsense symbols, then stores that result in the 1287. That's how it gets goofy (I'm sure it's a security measure. If you look back at my previous thread, it's all detailed out there.) In order to get the password, we have to take what is stored in the 1287 registers (and I understand it starts at address 34h for eight bytes), do a backwards XOR with the data word in the BIOS, and this should give us the actual password.

Also, I would be interested in what would be required to set up the CMOS registers as you suggested. I think GRiD did not vary from the normal conventions of its use. If you know the defined setup of the CMOS chip, that would be great to get a program that will help us program it as we need it. I do have a 1530 with a surgerized 1287 RTC that we can dump the contents from. I'm sure Shawn or someone has a 1520 with that adjustment. Would you be interested in that, Mike? Thanks.

Phil





--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Michael Brutman <mbbrutman@...> wrote:
>
>
> Those clock chips were supposed to have a shelf life of 10 years, so
> it's possible that somebody assumed they would always work. Most
> machines have the courtesy to report a CMOS error when the battery dies,
> so this makes the Grid truly a non-user friendly oddball. As if you guys
> didn't have enough problems with it already .. reminds me of the poor,
> abused PCjr users that I hang out with ...
>
> So where are you at the moment? You have a work around for booting the
> machine .. do you just need someway to setup the new CMOS chip? The CMOS
> areas are pretty well defined, but there is also an area for the
> password in there somewhere that might be goofy. And I'm not sure if
> Grid followed the normal conventions for the CMOS areas. But I assume
> that there are enough working machines out there that we can dump the
> CMOS from a working one and reverse engineer the contents before you all
> lose your batteries ..
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Shawnerz wrote:
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > >Please catch me up on the 1287 issue .. is it just a combined CMOS/clock
> > >chip? If so, it should be readily programmable by generic CMOS
> > >utilities for AT class machines.
> >
> > This might be possible, but the Grid BIOS won't allow the computer to
> > boot unless the correct password is entered. I'm not 100% sure on
> > this, but the appearance is, if the internal (internal to the 1287)
> > battery dies, the 1287 goes to some weird unitilialzed state. When the
> > Grid BIOS encounters this, it prompts for a password. The BIOS will
> > not allow the computer to boot until the proper password is entered.
> > We're not sure why this is. Perhaps it was meant as a security
> > feature. Perhaps it was a "fall through" in a case statement.
> > "Oh, the battery will never die in these things...."
> >
> > Thanks for the response.
> > -Shawn
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Michael Brutman <mbbrutman@... <mailto:mbbrutman%40yahoo.com>>
> > To: Shawnerz <shawnerz@... <mailto:shawnerz%40yahoo.com>>
> > Cc: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 7:15:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
> >
> > I'm actually lurking in the background ... I've not forsaken you guys. :-)
> >
> > The first set of output from hdlook is the bytes from the CMOS area.
> > The CMOS has room for two drives. Type zero is 'no drive', while
> > anything else indicates a drive is present.
> >
> > On my 386-40 with one drive the CMOS data shows drive type 1 for the
> > first type, and drive type 0 for the second type. After that it dumps
> > the data for the two drives that it finds in memory. That memory is
> > usually ROM, but if you have an aftermarket controller it can be in
> > RAM. The code always dumps both entries, even though one might be bogus
> > - just ignore it.
> >
> > I posted a new version of hdlook.zip at
> > http://www.brutman.com/hdlook.zip <http://www.brutman.com/hdlook.zip>
> > . This version is the same, but it
> > has source code in it.
> >
> > Please catch me up on the 1287 issue .. is it just a combined CMOS/clock
> > chip? If so, it should be readily programmable by generic CMOS
> > utilities for AT class machines. If my code is reading it's contents it
> > can't be too bad.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Shawnerz wrote:
> > > WOW!! Congratulations! Great work, Phil!
> > >
> > > hdlook returns two hard drives. That's normal. There is a specific
> > reason for that. Mike told me the reason, but I can't remember.
> > >
> > > Mike: L'il help here? Thanks. :-)
> > > -Shawn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@... <mailto:Jeriddian%40msn.com>>
> > > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 5:02:58 PM
> > > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Success!!! The password problem is solved!
> > >
> > > Hey, guys! IT WORKED!!
> > >
> > > Here are the changes again to apply to the BIOS:
> > > ----------------------------------------------
> > > In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:
> > >
> > > offset from to
> > > 0x0CC2 0xE8 0x90
> > > 0x0CC3 0xB6 0x90
> > > 0x0CC4 0x66 0x90
> > >
> > > 0x0CC8 0xE8 0x90
> > > 0x0CC9 0x6F 0x90
> > > 0x0CCA 0x65 0x90
> > >
> > > 0x0CCB 0x73 0xEB
> > >
> > > Be sure to alter a few of of the very first bytes of the code for
> > each chip to get the checksums back to where they belong, then burn
> > the new EPROMS.
> > > ----------------------------------------------
> > > What this does is totally bypass the password routine, as if you had
> > successfully answered the question. When I placed these modified chips
> > into the computer and booted up, I again get the same question asking
> > for the password..........for about a second, and then it goes on as
> > if I had answered it correctly and asks for the time and date. Once
> > those are entered, it launches the C: prompt. I had total access to
> > the computer at that point. Now, I am not sure I will be completely
> > out of the woods yet. I am not sure of the data on the new 1287 chip,
> > one reason being I ran Brutmans' HDLOOK program and it gave me data on
> > TWO HD. (I only have one), so I think I need to get a program that
> > will read the registers in the 1287 and see if maybe I can dump them
> > and/or modify them as needed. But for now, it seems that it should
> > work just fine. The computer worked completely normal for me overall.
> > >
> > > So if any of you have the password problem with using a new 1287 or
> > 1287A in a 1520 computer, (since we can't use the 12887 chips in a 16
> > bit machine, this solution will get you past the password problem.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo>! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo>! Groups Links
> >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2069
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 08:23:27 -0600
From: Michael Brutman
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Success!!! The password problem is solved!

I'm confused.  If the Dallas 1287 dies, the contents of the CMOS 
packaged with the battery should be gone too.  Cracking open the 1287 
and replacing the batter should not revive the contents of the CMOS.

When you were looking at the BIOS to get around the password prompt, did 
you analyze the code before that point to see what it was looking for in 
the CMOS?  Do you know the location of the XOR mask in BIOS that is 
being used to 'encrypt' the password?

I can dump the raw contents of the 1287 ..  HDlook is doing some of that 
already.  I'll write a different piece of code to dump the whole thing.  
I might not even need to - there are CMOS editors out there already that 
might do the job.  The generic CMOS editors also generally know where 
the valid data fields are.  If they can handle all of the DS1287 then we 
should probably just use one of them.  (I'll read the data sheet on the 
DS1287 to make sure that it doesn't have anything weird that a normal 
CMOS doesn't have.)


Mike

Yahoo! Message number: 2070
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:39:16 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Success!!! The password problem is solved!

Hi, Mike,

You are correct. I'm sorry if I didn't explain it well enough. The contents of the 1287 do go away when the battery is dead. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I do know that the information on the DS1287 about the hard drive and other parameters is used to successfully boot up the computer.

Now, one can get past the 1287 in some cases by booting off of the floppy disk, although this is inconsistent to the best of my knowledge. Some people have reported they could get past the dead 1287 this way and others said they couldn't. I have seen both instances in my experience. But if the computer does boot off the floppy, you cannot see the hard drive, because the BIOS won't connect it up due to the 1287 being dead. Why exactly, I don't know.

My best guess is that the information for the type of hard drive being used for that particular unit is stored in the 1287, even though it's in the BIOS as well. The computer looks for it on boot up to confirm it or something like that before it sees the HDD. On a new 1287, where that information is not there, the code may have some sort of subroutine which will recheck the presence of the hard drive and then rewrite the information back into the 1287, and then recheck the chip to make sure it's okay before connecting the HDD to BIOS and booting up. In fact I don't doubt the computer might check and completely rewrite the contents of the 1287 each time it boots up. But without sombody completely reverse engineering the code to find out what each piece of it does, I just don't know. Maybe the BIOS has the password hardwired into it. I've never tried original BIOS chips from another 1520 to see if those would boot another 1520. That is something to consider.

What I can tell you is that the password is the sticking point. On a dead 1287, the stored XOR'd version of it is gone. I believe the computer checks that password in the stored contents of the 1287 every time it boots, but against what other stored information I don't know. Certainly, it can't be the HDD. Maybe it checks the contents against other registers in the 1287 or a hardwired code in teh BIOS. I don't know. It may be each 1287 had a unique hardwired identifier as a security precaution of some sort. I have heard of that from other programmers, that the 1287 was used as a security precaution in computers, which would certainly fit the GRiD since it was promarily used for military and industrial uses.

All I know is that the computer can recognize each chip differently and knows the one that belongs to it alone. I can take the new 1287 chip out of the computer I just modifed and stick the old one back in with a new externalized battery and with the original BIOS chips, and it will boot up without a problem, never asking for the BIOS password. I have done that before too.

When I contacted the programmer who I had him help me with this, and he analyzed the code and came up with the following. (I'm explaining what happens as best I can, but I don't fully understand it all myself.):
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The computer checks the password and finds it different or wrong. It then outputs to the screen asking for the user to input the correct password. The subroutines asking the for the BIOS passsword appear to be at the following addresses in the BIOS code:

seg000:0CC2                call    sub_737B
seg000:0CC5                call    sub_71D2
seg000:0CC8                call    sub_723A
seg000:0CCB                jnb    short loc_CE3
seg000:0CCD                call    sub_7291
seg000:0CD0                jnb    short loc_CE3
seg000:0CD2                call    loc_72D8
seg000:0CD5                mov    ds, word ptr cs:0C5E6h
seg000:0CDA                mov    ds:word_72, 1234h
seg000:0CE0                jmp    loc_A6

Notes:  (1) The subroutine called for at 000:0CC2 (also cs:0CC2 BTW) calls for the routine at address cs:737B to input the password from the keyboard.

        (2) The subroutine called for at cs:0CC5 is a subroutine that does something with preparing to compare the entered password with what is stored in the computer. (In and of itself it isn't important.)

        (3) The subroutine called for at 0CC8 compares the entered string from the keyboard to the stored password and determines if it is valid.

        (4) If the password is valid, the carry flag will be cleared. The instruction at 0CCB is a conditional jump. If the carry flag is NOT cleared (Password failed), then the computer issues the string to the keyboard, "Invalid password; Press any key". Once a keystroke is entered, the computer then jumps to the instruction at location 0CE3 (cs:0CE3), which executes a reboot, which then creates the endless loop problem.

        (5) The next instruction at cs:0CCD apparently calls for the the subroutine that accesses the date from the real time clock and processes it in some manner (I haven't gotten an explanation of that subroutine, and I don't know enough about assembly to parse that out without really pulling all my books out and taking the time to do it, which I don't have right now., but it isn't important for the purpose at hand.)

        (6) The instruction at cs:0CD0 again calls for a conditional jump. (I'm not sure why but it probably has nothing to do with the BIOS password, and therefore is not that important to this discussion. It should not be a problem here.)

        (7) (If both of these conditional jumps are satisfied, the reading of code continues to the next instruction at cs:0CD2 which sets the cursor position, then calls for movement of some data from the BIOS into certain registers and then at cs:0CE0, calls for the execution of the subroutine at location 00A6 (cs:00A6), which seems to be the reading in of data from the real time clock into the processors and using it. The computer should then continue to boot up.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------

The final routine for comparison of the entered password with what is stored is as follows from my source: (These are his words)

I have found out that:
  - the password can be up to 8 bytes.
  - Is stored at cs:F0FC in the eeprom (xor'd)
  ? if the password doesn't match, there is a backdoor.
  ? the backdoor is the current date in YYMMDD form

I am not exactly sure about the last two. They might work.

(BTW, I did try them. They didn't work. Also address F0FCh does not exist, but may simply be a mask for 70FCh, which is what we are thinking.)

The call at 0CC8 checks the password you entered.

00000CC8 E86F65          call  00000723Ah

0000723A 50              push ax
0000723B 51              push cx
0000723C 52              push dx
0000723D 56              push si
0000723E 57              push di
0000723F 1E              push ds
00007240 06              push es
00007241 FC              cld
00007242 B97000          mov cx,0070h
00007245 8EC1            mov es,cx
00007247 33FF            xor di,di
00007249 8ED9            mov ds,cx
0000724B BE0800          mov si,0008h
0000724E E8CFFF          call 000007220h

; create password from user entered and saved at cs:F0FCh (70FCh)
00007220 53              push bx
00007221 51              push cx
00007222 BBFCF0          mov bx,0F0FCh  ; <------ 70FCh
00007225 B90800          mov cx,0008h
00007228 2E8A07          mov al,cs:[bx]
0000722B 268A25          mov ah,es:[di]
0000722E 32C4            xor al,ah
00007230 8804            mov [si],al
00007232 47              inc di
00007233 46              inc si
00007234 43              inc bx
00007235 E2F1            loop 000007228h
00007237 59              pop cx
00007238 5B              pop bx
00007239 C3              ret

00007251 BF1000          mov di,0010h
00007254 8CC0            mov ax,es
00007256 8ED8            mov ds,ax
00007258 B034            mov al,34h
0000725A 8AE0            mov ah,al
0000725C B90800          mov cx,0008h
0000725F E800D5          call  000004762h

00004762 52              push dx
00004763 BA7000          mov dx,0070h
00004766 E81F00          call 000004788h

00004788 C3              ret
00004769 FA              cli
0000476A EE              out dx,al
0000476B 42              inc dx
0000476C EB00            jmp 00000476Eh
0000476E EB00            jmp 000004770h
00004770 EC              in al,dx
00004771 5A              pop dx
00004772 C3              ret

00007262 AA              stosb
00007263 FEC4            inc ah
00007265 8AC4            mov al,ah
00007267 E2F6            loop 00000725Fh

00007269 BF1000          mov di,0010h
0000726C BE0800          mov si,0008h
0000726F E87701          call  0000073E9h  ; compare string

000073E9 B90800          mov cx,0008h
000073EC F3A6            repe cmpsb
000073EE 7403            jz 0000073F3h
000073F0 F9              stc
000073F1 EB01            jmp 0000073F4h
000073F3 F8              clc
000073F4 C3              ret

00007272 07              pop es
00007273 1F              pop ds
00007274 5F              pop di
00007275 5E              pop si
00007276 5A              pop dx
00007277 59              pop cx
00007278 58              pop ax
00007279 C3              ret

; Here the carry flag will be clear if the password was
;  entered correctly.  (A correct password)


This is the code that the BIOS uses to 'create' a password check
from the (max) 8 bytes you entered.  If the value at 70FCh is

000070FC db  5Bh, 44h, 5Eh, 68h, 7Dh, 5Fh, 7Ch, 4Dh (....[D^h}_|M....)

Then reverse the process above and you should be able to get
the password needed.

Also, it looks like the password is stored in the CMOS chip
at offset 34h, read 8 times.  If you can read in this register
8 times, viewing what the result it, this will tell you what
the password is, xor'ed using the code above.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Most of the above is the programmer's explanation, except where I spoke in parentheses. I hope that gives you more insight into the situation. It is confusing to me as well exactly what is going on. But the whole point to the alteration of the code is simply to bypass the actual code that tested for the password and simply execute an automatic jump at the test point in the code as if the password entry was successful, thus continuing on to boot up the computer, without altering any of the other code in the BIOS.

Hope that helps, Mike

Phil


--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Michael Brutman <mbbrutman@...> wrote:
>
>
> I'm confused.  If the Dallas 1287 dies, the contents of the CMOS
> packaged with the battery should be gone too.  Cracking open the 1287
> and replacing the batter should not revive the contents of the CMOS.
>
> When you were looking at the BIOS to get around the password prompt, did
> you analyze the code before that point to see what it was looking for in
> the CMOS?  Do you know the location of the XOR mask in BIOS that is
> being used to 'encrypt' the password?
>
> I can dump the raw contents of the 1287 ..  HDlook is doing some of that
> already.  I'll write a different piece of code to dump the whole thing.
> I might not even need to - there are CMOS editors out there already that
> might do the job.  The generic CMOS editors also generally know where
> the valid data fields are.  If they can handle all of the DS1287 then we
> should probably just use one of them.  (I'll read the data sheet on the
> DS1287 to make sure that it doesn't have anything weird that a normal
> CMOS doesn't have.)
>
>
> Mike
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2071
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:20:32 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: been away for a while

been away for a while

whats the latest on a replacement dallas clock chip
none of my grids i have tried will boot now


several 1520 grids   and a 1755

is there a way to re power the current chip
thought i saw a mod by some one

dave wd8cyv in wv usa
wd8cyv At yahoo.com

Yahoo! Message number: 2072
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 21:49:54 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: been away for a while

Hi, Dave,

Funny you should mention this, since I just managed to come up with an answer not too long ago.

First, do the Grid 1755's still use a Dallas RTC chip? That's interesting. If so, and since that is a 386 machine, replacing it with a regular 12887A replacement which is what is recommended by Dallas Semiconductor these days, will work just fine. I've done that in my 1530's and it works well.

The 1520's are a whole different problem. These are 16 bit machines. Therefore the 12887's will NOT work in them as they have twice the registers of the 1287, and are addressed differently. A 16 bit machine canot see it properly as it will address the wrong registers in a chip meant for a 32 bit machine.

You would have to do one of two things:

First, as you had asked, there is a mod for repowering your original 1287 chip. Shawn has described in a file in the files section. It involves desoldering the chip off of the board (I wouldn't try this with the chip still on the board), then using a dremel tool to drill through the epoxy casing to the two pins connected to the old battery within it. You would detach at least one pin from the battery, then solder wires to both pins and connect them to an external battery. It's a lot of work, but it is one solution. I and a few others here have successfully done this in some of our machines. The specifics are in Shawn's file in the files section.

If putting an external battery is not what you want to do, and since the 12887 will NOT work in a 1520, you must replace it with a 1287 or 1287A (You can still get them). However, the password is not the same on the new chip, and the computer recognizes that when you try to boot up. When it sees that the password is different, the computer goes into a routine just after POST asking you for the password. You will get locked into an interminable loop trying to input a password you do not know (and we have tried all the backdoors. None that we have tried have worked.), and the computer justs locks into rebooting the machine and never finishing the boot process. You probably already have run into this.

The only option here is to alter the BIOS code. It is the same process by which we alter the BIOS code for accepting different hard drives than originally programmed into the BIOS, which Shawn and I have done, and then burning new EPROM BIOS chips with the altered code. Both Shawn and I have done this with several different Conner hard drives, and it does work.

You would have to to get two EPROM chips (27C128), and an EPROM  programming unit of some sort (There are several on the market). An EPROM eraser would also be recommended. If it doesn't come with the programming hardware unit, some sort of software hex editor will be required (I recommend WinHex.) If you have these tools available, you have to make the following changes to the BIOS code:

----------------------------------------------
In the BIOS image, change the following bytes:

offset........ from.......... to

0x0CC2........ 0xE8.......... 0x90
0x0CC3........ 0xB6.......... 0x90
0x0CC4........ 0x66.......... 0x90

0x0CC8........ 0xE8.......... 0x90
0x0CC9........ 0x6F.......... 0x90
0x0CCA........ 0x65.......... 0x90

0x0CCB........ 0x73.......... 0xEB

Be sure to alter a few of the very first bytes of the code for each chip to get the checksums back to where they belong, then burn the new EPROMS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
This will allow you to use a new 1287 in a 1520 computer by getting you past the password question without altering any other code in the BIOS. It will then boot up. It seemes to work on the 1520 I've tried it on. I have successfully done this.

These are your only options we have to offer so far. I am working on some other options to make the programming process a little easier, although it involves my learning assmebly again, which is going to be slow going.

Hope that helps.

Phil


--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
> been away for a while
>
> whats the latest on a replacement dallas clock chip
> none of my grids i have tried will boot now
>
>
> several 1520 grids   and a 1755
>
> is there a way to re power the current chip
> thought i saw a mod by some one
>
> dave wd8cyv in wv usa
> wd8cyv At yahoo.com
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2073
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:26:42 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: Re: been away for a while

not sure about the 1755 i think it runs but not fired it up of late
but the 1520 i would like to get running
will the repowerby by hooking new battery of the ori dallas chip have any problem
with the password
i never used a pass word in any of the ones i had running
always felt  it would just keep me out  and the snoopers would know a work around
or if i supplied chips can you burn a set
i have some of the oem Conner drives that are big 
but will not run in mine because it is limited to 20 or 40 i forget
i would like to use mine to run rtty or baycom packet
radio it ran packet great 
and would love to find sipps to max out the memory
as i know the tricks to make it run win 3.1 but it works better with more memory
dave

Yahoo! Message number: 2074
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:42:57 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: what is file name

First, as you had asked, there is a mod for repowering your original 1287 chip.
Shawn has described in a file in the files section.

what is the file name or a link i am having trouble finding it
if i know its name it may be stored in one of my computers
as i never erase a hard drive
dave

Yahoo! Message number: 2075
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:51:28 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: been away for a while

Hi, Dave,

1) if you repower the original 1287 with an external battery, then there will be no password problem. As I noted, I have done that on a 1520 I have, and having the original chip in there somehow bypasses the password problem. I don't know why. when you lose power to the chip due to the battery dying, you should lose all the information in the registers, including the password that is stored there. But that doesn't seem to be a problem if you use the original 1287. From what I understood, the password (an XOR'd version of it) is stored on the 1287, so if you cut the power to the chip, you should lose it, making the computer ask you for the password when you boot up. But that doesn't happen if you repower the original chip. This is what makes me think that there is some type of individual identifier on each chip that teh computer can recogniz, but I don't knwo what. But in any case, the password issue is NOT a problem if you repower the original 1287 chip.

2) I can burn a set of chips for you. Are you able to get me a copy of the BIOS file?

3) Which OEM Conner drives do you have? The GRID is programmed only to practically take the CP3024, CP3044, CP344, and CP3104. If you have another Conner drive, I may be able to program that into the BIOS as well to let the computer accept it, but only certain Conner will be taken by this computer. In any case, it can't be over 512 Mb.

3) The reason the computer will only see up to 32 MB is because that is technically the limit of 16 bit addressing. You are probably running GRiDDOS 3.3, which limits the size of each volume on your hard drive to 32 MB as a result. However, due to some slight of hand, DOS 4.0 and higher, will let you format the bigger drives to their full capacity.

4) I don't knonw anything about the rtty or baycom packet, but if it was on the computer already, it should run fine once you've solved the problem with 1287.

5) As to the SIPP's, I don't have a good answer at all. They are very hard to find, and although I have found a few 256K's here and there, the 1 Mb's are rarer than chicken's teeth. I am trying to figure a way to create a PCB board with the right chips (There are easily found themselves) that will connect to the memory connections in much the same way the old paragon memory adpatation for 16 Mb RAM did, but I really need to find out what that was all about first. This may not be achievable, though.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> not sure about the 1755 i think it runs but not fired it up of late
> but the 1520 i would like to get running
> will the repowerby by hooking new battery of the ori dallas chip have any problem
> with the password
> i never used a pass word in any of the ones i had running
> always felt  it would just keep me out  and the snoopers would know a work around
> or if i supplied chips can you burn a set
> i have some of the oem Conner drives that are big
> but will not run in mine because it is limited to 20 or 40 i forget
> i would like to use mine to run rtty or baycom packet
> radio it ran packet great
> and would love to find sipps to max out the memory
> as i know the tricks to make it run win 3.1 but it works better with more memory
> dave
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2076
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:51:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] what is file name

Hey there, Dave.
It's here in text form: http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/AGpKS8cMg2zHxH8cdc5OISjiS36EyeXOdYVskyC7FzKb9Pb2bE1K2YSgajGEG5l4E_bsJoJ8lk9u9MWZULCB/1520%20Hard%20Drive%20Reprograming%20Instructions.txt

I noticed there are several typos.  I haven't gone back to fix them.  It's a detailed procedure.  Please let me know if you're unsure of something or have any questions.
Enjoy,
-Shawn



----- Original Message ----
From: wd8cyv <wd8cyv@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 7:42:57 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] what is file name

First, as you had asked, there is a mod for repowering your original 1287 chip.
Shawn has described in a file in the files section.

what is the file name or a link i am having trouble finding it
if i know its name it may be stored in one of my computers
as i never erase a hard drive 
dave



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2077
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:54:40 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: what is file name

Sorry Dave, I thought the file was in there. It actually isn't.

Here is the reference to it, though:

http://www.mcamafia.de/mcapage0/dsrework.htm

Follow the instructions on the page. The only difference is that you cannot put the battery on top of the chip like in the picture because there is no room for it in the 1520. The keyboard sits right on top of the chip. You will have to run the wires off to the side and put the battery elsewhere. what type of battery you use is up to you. A coin type Lithium battery works just fine.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
> First, as you had asked, there is a mod for repowering your original 1287 chip.
> Shawn has described in a file in the files section.
> 
> what is the file name or a link i am having trouble finding it
> if i know its name it may be stored in one of my computers
> as i never erase a hard drive
> dave
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2078
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 01:02:09 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Files Section Limit

Shawn,

When I put up the manuals into the files section, it appears I maxed out the storage capacity for the files. Are you able to get storage capacity increased by Yahoo to enable more files being put in? If not, I think I would delete the manuals out of that section and simply make provisions for them to be downloaded off your server, or I can probably be able to put them on my server. What do you think?

Phil

Yahoo! Message number: 2079
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:57:39 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: what is file name

Thanks, Shawn,

But he's looking for the instructions to rework the Dallas RTC 1287 chip to put an external battery on it, not put a different hard drive on, although that may be something he's looking for too.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Hey there, Dave.
> It's here in text form: http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/AGpKS8cMg2zHxH8cdc5OISjiS36EyeXOdYVskyC7FzKb9Pb2bE1K2YSgajGEG5l4E_bsJoJ8lk9u9MWZULCB/1520%20Hard%20Drive%20Reprograming%20Instructions.txt
>
> I noticed there are several typos.  I haven't gone back to fix them.  It's a detailed procedure.  Please let me know if you're unsure of something or have any questions.
> Enjoy,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: wd8cyv <wd8cyv@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 7:42:57 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] what is file name
>
> First, as you had asked, there is a mod for repowering your original 1287 chip.
> Shawn has described in a file in the files section.
>
> what is the file name or a link i am having trouble finding it
> if i know its name it may be stored in one of my computers
> as i never erase a hard drive 
> dave
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2080
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 01:40:01 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: bigger

i want to get the dallas wotking
and would love to do a bigger hard drive 
has any one ever used a adapter for a cf card in one
probably have to load the power supply to get it to run
with out the hard drive current draw
512 cf card would be a neat mod
dave

Yahoo! Message number: 2081
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 01:52:09 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: Re: what is file name

page 404 error on Shawnerz's link
and the hd change is way beyond my skill level any more
had a heart attack in 2003 and it took out a bunch of my skills
sad to say most of the complex electrical stuff i knew
and age 64 is a bit late to relearn how to burn eproms

would need some one to burn them for me
i can get them into the machine
dave

Yahoo! Message number: 2082
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 02:09:03 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: bigger

Just follow the directions on that URL page that I sent you. It's the one I used for my external battery mods. However, a compact flash card would be a whole different thing. I know Shawn has been doing some experimenting with that. I don't know how far he's gone with it. The biggest problem I see with it is that even if you upgrade the OS to DOS 6.2, then load Win 3.1 on top of it, that's probably going to be the extent of how far you can go with this 286 computer in terms of an OS. Even then, it might be temperamental.

A CF Card is technology that may be beyond it. I'm not saying it's impossible, but you would probably have to get a programmer to specifically create a program to be able to use it. There certainly isn't any manufacturer out there who's goign to make it compatible back to a twenty year old dino like our babies here. The program  would have to load the parameters into the computer to allow it to recognize the hardware. (Sort of like that MSDMCX.exe file that's used to connect up CDROM's to the comnputer so it can see them.) The problem with doing this, I think, is the size of the CF cards. You probably will be limited to 512 Mb maximum size or so, because the OS won't be able to handle more than that. You can't use DOS 3.3 for sure. It will only go handle 32 Mb max. These are just some thoughts, though. I don't know for sure.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
> i want to get the dallas wotking
> and would love to do a bigger hard drive
> has any one ever used a adapter for a cf card in one
> probably have to load the power supply to get it to run
> with out the hard drive current draw
> 512 cf card would be a neat mod
> dave
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2083
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 02:11:00 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: what is file name

Don't worry about Shawn's link. Use the one I sent you.

I can burn EPROMS, but I'll need the original BIOS file from your 1520.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
> page 404 error on Shawnerz's link
> and the hd change is way beyond my skill level any more
> had a heart attack in 2003 and it took out a bunch of my skills
> sad to say most of the complex electrical stuff i knew
> and age 64 is a bit late to relearn how to burn eproms
>
> would need some one to burn them for me
> i can get them into the machine
> dave
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2084
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:51:54 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: what i am getting

when it boots it comes up ok and checks memory
and says
invalid configuration information; code 02

so i think this means its not seeing the Dallas time chip
and it instructions
will give the chip hack a shot

as for the cf card i think it can be placed in an other machine
and force formatted to a size in the drive table and system installed
have a custom set of dos 6.0 disks with an extra disk that
installs all the good stuff from 6.22 and kills all the bad stuff
like the disk compressor and smart drive exe that cause problems
only problem i see is i ran a 2.5 laptop drive in one
and had to load the power supply or it would not light up
the switching supply would not turn on
the cf card would not save any power but would probably
be very reliable once debugged
we will see if it goes that far
dave
thanks guys
check in later in the week i still drive school bus and back at it
Monday after snow days last week

Yahoo! Message number: 2085
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:51:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name
text/plain; charset=utf-8

 Hi Dave glad to see you're still about. Are you still motorcycling ? I'm 73 and while my memory isn't as good as it used to be and at times I have to search books to reacquaint myself with learned knowledge which I used to take for granted. Don't be intimidated by age. I've known many people who were aged before they reached 40, as I'm sure you do. From my perspective you're still a young man. All sorts of studies are out there that an inactive mind encourages Dementia(Altheimers). Younger people tend to have a busier metabolism which can tend to be annoying at times, but we have a wealth of experience which they are still learning. Heart attacks are disabling but good diet and exercise can re-enable you. Just don't give in to the mythology of the youth culture which is so current in our society. Sure we lose some of our speed and physical abilities, but I'm inspired by many like "Jackrabbit" Johanneson who was still making crosscountry 50mi. skiing
 trips at 95, or so many of the aged artists or writers who are still very proficient.

On this whole password issue I still hold that grounding out the Dallas chip erases the BIOS and any sort of password or password need. The original spec sheet of the Dallas chip mentions this, IIRC, or else I saw it in one of the old Grid postings on usenet. I do remember the problems of disassembling the 1520 and getting under the keyboard at the chip in order to make my 1520 functional. I can only imagine it was the
password problem. I can't see any other reason for disassembling my Grid to get at the chip. I definitely did not replace the chip. Occasionally I would have to open it up and rap the HDD sharply with a rubber handled screwdriver to get the HD working because it wouldn't retain the RAM chip xts settings which means they weren't in the BIOS but perhaps the autoexec. I haven't played with it for some time as my time seems to be taken up lately by just keeping my newer "Gee-Whiz-Bang" computers functioning and enabling other old computers in my considerable collection, so that I can sell them before they become a problem which the executor of my estate, my nephew,  is ill-equiped to deal with. As well as gardening and renovating my 100-year old house.

 I have the Grid SCSI module with it's docs and program. It mentions the place in memory where it places the code which enables the SCSI interface. I must admit to not ever using it. I think there is only a limited amount of BIOS on the Dallas chip. That related to time and password. If the SCSI code is not entered on the Dallas chip surely there are other BIOS locations which are accessable and changeable with the proper assembly code as used by the SCSI module. Similarly, I have used Zip drives on other computers with small HDs. Has anyone tried using the many AT BIOS programs like getbios.com. I seem to recall they didn't work to set the BIOS but I can't recall. A CF would be great but I think the BIOS and the Grid would have to have some sort of PCMCIA capabilities, which would entail even greater problems. But perhaps some sort of module having DMA capabilities like the SCSI one could work.

 Mike Brutman's post also seems to place some questions as to the password NEED being related to the Dallas chip. I know I used my 1520s for years, without a password problem, altho I had to update the time, date, settings,( if I wanted to) which would indicate a dead Dallas battery. When I get the time, which would likely be less than the time I spent on this post, I'll dig the working( I removed the SIPPs on one in order to get 8M ram) Grid out and boot it up with a floppy.

Lawrence





________________________________
From: wd8cyv <wd8cyv@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 7:52:09 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name


page 404 error on Shawnerz's link
and the hd change is way beyond my skill level any more
had a heart attack in 2003 and it took out a bunch of my skills
sad to say most of the complex electrical stuff i knew
and age 64 is a bit late to relearn how to burn eproms

would need some one to burn them for me
i can get them into the machine
dave





      __________________________________________________________________
Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php

Yahoo! Message number: 2086
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:05:19 +0100
From: Andrea
Subject: Dallas reworking

Hallo Dave,
some pictures of dallas reworking on my 1520, now the new battery a 
CR3032 is near the memory modules.
Andrea

Yahoo! Message number: 2087
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:11:49 +0100
From: Andrea
Subject: Dallas reworking

sorry, the pictures
http://picasaweb.google.com/Zentaro.cane/Gridcase1520#

Yahoo! Message number: 2088
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:04:36 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: remove case

1520 case removal
i remember how to get the case off the back part but the case around
the keyboard
 HELP so i don't break some thing
its been 2002 or 2003 since i had one apart
dave
the fellow i bought my first one from showed me
but lost track of him

Yahoo! Message number: 2089
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:20:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] remove case

Dave,
Lift up gently with a wide, flatblade screwdriver.
At least, that's how I do it.
Good luck,
-Shawn



----- Original Message ----
From: wd8cyv <wd8cyv@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 6:04:36 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] remove case

1520 case removal
i remember how to get the case off the back part but the case around
the keyboard 
HELP so i don't break some thing 
its been 2002 or 2003 since i had one apart 
dave
the fellow i bought my first one from showed me 
but lost track of him



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2090
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:43:52 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: remove case

Dave,

There is a file in the files section on disassembling the unit. check it out. It's called:

GRiDCASE 1500 DISASSEMBLY_REASSEMBLY Instructions.pdf

That will give you more info.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
> 1520 case removal
> i remember how to get the case off the back part but the case around
> the keyboard
>  HELP so i don't break some thing
> its been 2002 or 2003 since i had one apart 
> dave
> the fellow i bought my first one from showed me
> but lost track of him
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2091
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 01:08:54 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Dallas RTC Initialization Data

Hey, guys, I found it! This gives you the readout on the memory in the RTC and what each bit is used for. This ought to help Mike in figuring out how to dump the contents of the RTC.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
RTC
In the PC architecture the Real Time Clock contains a battery clock and CMOS RAM. The clock keeps time after power has been removed and also stores the system configuration in CMOS RAM. If the system is never to be powered off, then an RTC may not be required. If the system is not expandable, then the configuration information can be stored in ROM.

CMOS RAM Function RAM Locations:

Time/Date 00H-09H
RTC Control Regs 0AH-0DH
Diagnostic Byte 0EH
Reset Code Byte 0FH
Diskette Type 10H
Reserved 11H
Hard Disk Type 12H
Reserved 13H
Equipment Installed Byte 14H
Base & Extended Memory 15H-18H
Reserved 19H-2CH
Additional Flags 2DH
Checksum Value 2EH-2FH
Memory above 1MB 30H-31H
Century 32H
System Information 33H
Reserved 34H-3FH (Password Storage starts at 34H in the GRiD,
          possibly)

The original RTC used in the PC AT was a Motorola MC146818. Now several manufacturers supply equivalent products like Dallas Semiconductors DS1287 and BenchMarq. The RTC contains 64 bytes of CMOS RAM that are accessed using two I/O locations port 70 and 71. Port 70 is the address register and port 71 is the data register. Valid address values are 0 to 3FH for 64 CMOS locations. The first 10 locations are used by the RTC to update the time and date, the next four locations are control registers for the RTC, and the remaining 50 locations are used to store system configuration.

The Reset Code Byte(0FH) was originally used in the PC-AT to allow the 80286 processor to return from protected mode to real mode by using the processor reset. This byte would indicate why the processor was reset and has several possible values:

00H Normal power up reset or <CTRL> <ALT> <DEL> reset.
04H Skip POST
05H Skip POST, preserve memory, send an EOI to the Interrupt
       controller, and then jump to reset vector 0040:0067. .
09H Block move return
0AH Jump to reset vector 0040:0067 without issuing EOI.

The location 0040:0067 contains the address where Real Mode execution should resume. On an Intel386TM processor or Intel486TM processor based system the switch from protected to real mode can be made without resetting the processor, instead the Protected Enable(PE) bit in the Processors MSW register can be disabled. Some BIOSs allow this selection. If the design does not require a real time clock then it is possible to use the PE bit to switch from protected mode to real mode. To maintain compatibility the BIOS can be hard coded with the
hardware configuration. If the design requires MS-DOS* or MS Windows* than an RTC is a requirement.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

This is good info on the RTC.

Phil

Yahoo! Message number: 2092
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 01:47:58 -0000
From: "bigwalk_ca"
Subject: Re: what is file name

 Most of my references to BIOS should have been to CMOS on the Dallas chip. Would grounding the chip depend on a little bit of power left in the chip ? One would think that like a capacitor, grounding it would simply remove any residual charge and presumably any data on it.
Again I maintain, it worked for me and my memory is not so fragile that I misrecall the results of my grounding the onboard chip. Now perhaps it only worked with the original Dallas chip and ISTR a reference to replacing it only with the 1287A Dallas chip. Perhaps this new data J. presented can clear up the puzzle.

 I assure you all that I take vintage computers seriously and do not make BS statements freely, like some of the younger vintage adherents might to score brownie points.

Lawrence

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...> wrote:
>
>  Hi Dave glad to see you're still about. Are you still motorcycling ? I'm 73 and while my memory isn't as good as it used to be and at times I have to search books to reacquaint myself with learned knowledge which I used to take for granted. Don't be intimidated by age. I've known many people who were aged before they reached 40, as I'm sure you do. From my perspective you're still a young man. All sorts of studies are out there that an inactive mind encourages Dementia(Altheimers). Younger people tend to have a busier metabolism which can tend to be annoying at times, but we have a wealth of experience which they are still learning. Heart attacks are disabling but good diet and exercise can re-enable you. Just don't give in to the mythology of the youth culture which is so current in our society. Sure we lose some of our speed and physical abilities, but I'm inspired by many like "Jackrabbit" Johanneson who was still making crosscountry 50mi. skiing
>  trips at 95, or so many of the aged artists or writers who are still very proficient.
>
> On this whole password issue I still hold that grounding out the Dallas chip erases the BIOS and any sort of password or password need. The original spec sheet of the Dallas chip mentions this, IIRC, or else I saw it in one of the old Grid postings on usenet. I do remember the problems of disassembling the 1520 and getting under the keyboard at the chip in order to make my 1520 functional. I can only imagine it was the
> password problem. I can't see any other reason for disassembling my Grid to get at the chip. I definitely did not replace the chip. Occasionally I would have to open it up and rap the HDD sharply with a rubber handled screwdriver to get the HD working because it wouldn't retain the RAM chip xts settings which means they weren't in the BIOS but perhaps the autoexec. I haven't played with it for some time as my time seems to be taken up lately by just keeping my newer "Gee-Whiz-Bang" computers functioning and enabling other old computers in my considerable collection, so that I can sell them before they become a problem which the executor of my estate, my nephew,  is ill-equiped to deal with. As well as gardening and renovating my 100-year old house.
>
>  I have the Grid SCSI module with it's docs and program. It mentions the place in memory where it places the code which enables the SCSI interface. I must admit to not ever using it. I think there is only a limited amount of BIOS on the Dallas chip. That related to time and password. If the SCSI code is not entered on the Dallas chip surely there are other BIOS locations which are accessable and changeable with the proper assembly code as used by the SCSI module. Similarly, I have used Zip drives on other computers with small HDs. Has anyone tried using the many AT BIOS programs like getbios.com. I seem to recall they didn't work to set the BIOS but I can't recall. A CF would be great but I think the BIOS and the Grid would have to have some sort of PCMCIA capabilities, which would entail even greater problems. But perhaps some sort of module having DMA capabilities like the SCSI one could work.
>
>  Mike Brutman's post also seems to place some questions as to the password NEED being related to the Dallas chip. I know I used my 1520s for years, without a password problem, altho I had to update the time, date, settings,( if I wanted to) which would indicate a dead Dallas battery. When I get the time, which would likely be less than the time I spent on this post, I'll dig the working( I removed the SIPPs on one in order to get 8M ram) Grid out and boot it up with a floppy.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: wd8cyv <wd8cyv@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 7:52:09 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name
>
>   
> page 404 error on Shawnerz's link
> and the hd change is way beyond my skill level any more
> had a heart attack in 2003 and it took out a bunch of my skills
> sad to say most of the complex electrical stuff i knew
> and age 64 is a bit late to relearn how to burn eproms
>
> would need some one to burn them for me
> i can get them into the machine
> dave
>
>
>
>
>
>       __________________________________________________________________
> Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2093
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:43:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Dallas RTC Initialization Data

Wow!  Very good information.
BTW, where did you find this?  Was it from your friend or did this come from a data sheet somewhere?
Thanks,
-Shawn



----- Original Message ----
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 8:08:54 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Dallas RTC Initialization Data

Hey, guys, I found it! This gives you the readout on the memory in the RTC and what each bit is used for. This ought to help Mike in figuring out how to dump the contents of the RTC.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
RTC
In the PC architecture the Real Time Clock contains a battery clock and CMOS RAM. The clock keeps time after power has been removed and also stores the system configuration in CMOS RAM. If the system is never to be powered off, then an RTC may not be required. If the system is not expandable, then the configuration information can be stored in ROM.

CMOS RAM Function RAM Locations:

Time/Date 00H-09H
RTC Control Regs 0AH-0DH
Diagnostic Byte 0EH
Reset Code Byte 0FH
Diskette Type 10H
Reserved 11H
Hard Disk Type 12H
Reserved 13H
Equipment Installed Byte 14H
Base & Extended Memory 15H-18H
Reserved 19H-2CH
Additional Flags 2DH
Checksum Value 2EH-2FH
Memory above 1MB 30H-31H
Century 32H
System Information 33H
Reserved 34H-3FH (Password Storage starts at 34H in the GRiD,
          possibly)

The original RTC used in the PC AT was a Motorola MC146818. Now several manufacturers supply equivalent products like Dallas Semiconductors DS1287 and BenchMarq. The RTC contains 64 bytes of CMOS RAM that are accessed using two I/O locations port 70 and 71. Port 70 is the address register and port 71 is the data register. Valid address values are 0 to 3FH for 64 CMOS locations. The first 10 locations are used by the RTC to update the time and date, the next four locations are control registers for the RTC, and the remaining 50 locations are used to store system configuration.

The Reset Code Byte(0FH) was originally used in the PC-AT to allow the 80286 processor to return from protected mode to real mode by using the processor reset. This byte would indicate why the processor was reset and has several possible values:

00H Normal power up reset or <CTRL> <ALT> <DEL> reset.
04H Skip POST
05H Skip POST, preserve memory, send an EOI to the Interrupt
      controller, and then jump to reset vector 0040:0067. .
09H Block move return
0AH Jump to reset vector 0040:0067 without issuing EOI.

The location 0040:0067 contains the address where Real Mode execution should resume. On an Intel386TM processor or Intel486TM processor based system the switch from protected to real mode can be made without resetting the processor, instead the Protected Enable(PE) bit in the Processors MSW register can be disabled. Some BIOSs allow this selection. If the design does not require a real time clock then it is possible to use the PE bit to switch from protected mode to real mode. To maintain compatibility the BIOS can be hard coded with the
hardware configuration. If the design requires MS-DOS* or MS Windows* than an RTC is a requirement.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

This is good info on the RTC.

Phil



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2094
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:04:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name

Hey, Lawrence.
I don't think anyone was making any accusations whether or not your procedure worked.  Perhaps you received something privately.  But, I don't recall anyone implying you were making a BS statement.
Having said that, in light of Phil's (Jerridan) post, it appears that grounding the 12887A would make things worse.
I don't mean to insult you at all.  I just want to be sure we're all on the same sheet of music.
There were two different types of Dallas RTC chips in the 1520: the 1287A and the 12887A.  The 1287A has an external lithium battery soldered to the motherboard.  The 12887A has much larger case that houses an internal button cell battery.
If you removed the battery from the motherboard, the 1287A would "dump."  Time of day (and probably password) would need to be set.
If you shorted the battery in the 12887A, it too would dump and now you have a dead battery.  Time of day (and possibly the password) would have to be set each time at power up. IIRC, you can't short the battery on the 12887A because the battery pins do not extend out of the bottom of the chip.
That's my $.02.
-Shawn

 


----- Original Message ----
From: bigwalk_ca <bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 8:47:58 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name

Most of my references to BIOS should have been to CMOS on the Dallas chip. Would grounding the chip depend on a little bit of power left in the chip ? One would think that like a capacitor, grounding it would simply remove any residual charge and presumably any data on it.
Again I maintain, it worked for me and my memory is not so fragile that I misrecall the results of my grounding the onboard chip. Now perhaps it only worked with the original Dallas chip and ISTR a reference to replacing it only with the 1287A Dallas chip. Perhaps this new data J. presented can clear up the puzzle.

I assure you all that I take vintage computers seriously and do not make BS statements freely, like some of the younger vintage adherents might to score brownie points.

Lawrence

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...> wrote:
>
>  Hi Dave glad to see you're still about. Are you still motorcycling ? I'm 73 and while my memory isn't as good as it used to be and at times I have to search books to reacquaint myself with learned knowledge which I used to take for granted. Don't be intimidated by age. I've known many people who were aged before they reached 40, as I'm sure you do. From my perspective you're still a young man. All sorts of studies are out there that an inactive mind encourages Dementia(Altheimers). Younger people tend to have a busier metabolism which can tend to be annoying at times, but we have a wealth of experience which they are still learning. Heart attacks are disabling but good diet and exercise can re-enable you. Just don't give in to the mythology of the youth culture which is so current in our society. Sure we lose some of our speed and physical abilities, but I'm inspired by many like "Jackrabbit" Johanneson who was still making crosscountry 50mi. skiing
>  trips at 95, or so many of the aged artists or writers who are still very proficient.
>
> On this whole password issue I still hold that grounding out the Dallas chip erases the BIOS and any sort of password or password need. The original spec sheet of the Dallas chip mentions this, IIRC, or else I saw it in one of the old Grid postings on usenet. I do remember the problems of disassembling the 1520 and getting under the keyboard at the chip in order to make my 1520 functional. I can only imagine it was the
> password problem. I can't see any other reason for disassembling my Grid to get at the chip. I definitely did not replace the chip. Occasionally I would have to open it up and rap the HDD sharply with a rubber handled screwdriver to get the HD working because it wouldn't retain the RAM chip xts settings which means they weren't in the BIOS but perhaps the autoexec. I haven't played with it for some time as my time seems to be taken up lately by just keeping my newer "Gee-Whiz-Bang" computers functioning and enabling other old computers in my considerable collection, so that I can sell them before they become a problem which the executor of my estate, my nephew,  is ill-equiped to deal with. As well as gardening and renovating my 100-year old house.
>
>  I have the Grid SCSI module with it's docs and program. It mentions the place in memory where it places the code which enables the SCSI interface. I must admit to not ever using it. I think there is only a limited amount of BIOS on the Dallas chip. That related to time and password. If the SCSI code is not entered on the Dallas chip surely there are other BIOS locations which are accessable and changeable with the proper assembly code as used by the SCSI module. Similarly, I have used Zip drives on other computers with small HDs. Has anyone tried using the many AT BIOS programs like getbios.com. I seem to recall they didn't work to set the BIOS but I can't recall. A CF would be great but I think the BIOS and the Grid would have to have some sort of PCMCIA capabilities, which would entail even greater problems. But perhaps some sort of module having DMA capabilities like the SCSI one could work.
>
>  Mike Brutman's post also seems to place some questions as to the password NEED being related to the Dallas chip. I know I used my 1520s for years, without a password problem, altho I had to update the time, date, settings,( if I wanted to) which would indicate a dead Dallas battery. When I get the time, which would likely be less than the time I spent on this post, I'll dig the working( I removed the SIPPs on one in order to get 8M ram) Grid out and boot it up with a floppy.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: wd8cyv <wd8cyv@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 7:52:09 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name
>
> 
> page 404 error on Shawnerz's link
> and the hd change is way beyond my skill level any more
> had a heart attack in 2003 and it took out a bunch of my skills
> sad to say most of the complex electrical stuff i knew
> and age 64 is a bit late to relearn how to burn eproms
>
> would need some one to burn them for me
> i can get them into the machine
> dave
>
>
> 
>
>
>      __________________________________________________________________
> Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
>




------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2095
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 04:51:55 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Dallas RTC Initialization Data

It was a data sheet, but I can't remember where I got it! Darn it. I actually had already downloaded this some time ago, but lost track of it. Luckily as I was searching files, I ran across it today.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Wow!  Very good information.
> BTW, where did you find this?  Was it from your friend or did this come from a data sheet somewhere?
> Thanks,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 8:08:54 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Dallas RTC Initialization Data
>
> Hey, guys, I found it! This gives you the readout on the memory in the RTC and what each bit is used for. This ought to help Mike in figuring out how to dump the contents of the RTC.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> RTC
> In the PC architecture the Real Time Clock contains a battery clock and CMOS RAM. The clock keeps time after power has been removed and also stores the system configuration in CMOS RAM. If the system is never to be powered off, then an RTC may not be required. If the system is not expandable, then the configuration information can be stored in ROM.
>
> CMOS RAM Function RAM Locations:
>
> Time/Date 00H-09H
> RTC Control Regs 0AH-0DH
> Diagnostic Byte 0EH
> Reset Code Byte 0FH
> Diskette Type 10H
> Reserved 11H
> Hard Disk Type 12H
> Reserved 13H
> Equipment Installed Byte 14H
> Base & Extended Memory 15H-18H
> Reserved 19H-2CH
> Additional Flags 2DH
> Checksum Value 2EH-2FH
> Memory above 1MB 30H-31H
> Century 32H
> System Information 33H
> Reserved 34H-3FH (Password Storage starts at 34H in the GRiD,
>           possibly)
>
> The original RTC used in the PC AT was a Motorola MC146818. Now several manufacturers supply equivalent products like Dallas Semiconductors DS1287 and BenchMarq. The RTC contains 64 bytes of CMOS RAM that are accessed using two I/O locations port 70 and 71. Port 70 is the address register and port 71 is the data register. Valid address values are 0 to 3FH for 64 CMOS locations. The first 10 locations are used by the RTC to update the time and date, the next four locations are control registers for the RTC, and the remaining 50 locations are used to store system configuration.
>
> The Reset Code Byte(0FH) was originally used in the PC-AT to allow the 80286 processor to return from protected mode to real mode by using the processor reset. This byte would indicate why the processor was reset and has several possible values:
>
> 00H Normal power up reset or <CTRL> <ALT> <DEL> reset.
> 04H Skip POST
> 05H Skip POST, preserve memory, send an EOI to the Interrupt
>       controller, and then jump to reset vector 0040:0067. .
> 09H Block move return
> 0AH Jump to reset vector 0040:0067 without issuing EOI.
>
> The location 0040:0067 contains the address where Real Mode execution should resume. On an Intel386TM processor or Intel486TM processor based system the switch from protected to real mode can be made without resetting the processor, instead the Protected Enable(PE) bit in the Processors MSW register can be disabled. Some BIOSs allow this selection. If the design does not require a real time clock then it is possible to use the PE bit to switch from protected mode to real mode. To maintain compatibility the BIOS can be hard coded with the
> hardware configuration. If the design requires MS-DOS* or MS Windows* than an RTC is a requirement.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is good info on the RTC.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2096
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 05:20:17 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: what is file name

Shawn,

I don't think this is correct. The two chips that were on the 1520 were the 1287 and the 1287A. The difference between the two is that the 1287A had an extra pin by which you could clear out the data registers by shorting that extra pin to ground. In other words, it will reset the chip in case of the password not being known. The 1287 has no reset pin, so that cannot be done with that version. You can only replace the chip, which of course creates a whole new set of problems as has been recently discussed and thankfully solved.

I have no doubt that Lawrence was able to make his chip work by shorting the proper pins. Obviously it did work. I never doubted that. I just couldn't figure out why I couldn't do it with my units. It may be because I had a different revision of the motherboard.

By the way, Lawrence, as to my analyses, I grant there is a fair amount of speculation and some of it may be inaccurate. I will say so when I speculate. It's just a lot of fun to try and figure the computer out and how it works. If someone thinks something I said was incorrect, by all means say so, and show me why. My interest is to further knowledge on how this computer works and to advance that knowledge so we can get more enjoyment out of them. I do this as a hobby between the times I work as a sub-specialty physician in a group practice with a large patient load. I certainly don't need brownie points here.

As to the 12887A, it was not created until well past the time the 1520's were no longer being made. They have twice the amount of memory and are designed for 32 bit computers, not 16 bit computers like the 1520. They won't even work in the 1520 because of that.

None of these Dallas RTC modules have external batteries. The batteries are all incorporated into the case of the RTC chip itself. In those GRiD motherboards which have external Tadiran batteries, those motherboards don't use a Dallas RTC at all. They use a different clocking chip which runs off the external battery.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Hey, Lawrence.
> I don't think anyone was making any accusations whether or not your procedure worked.  Perhaps you received something privately.  But, I don't recall anyone implying you were making a BS statement.
> Having said that, in light of Phil's (Jerridan) post, it appears that grounding the 12887A would make things worse.
> I don't mean to insult you at all.  I just want to be sure we're all on the same sheet of music.
> There were two different types of Dallas RTC chips in the 1520: the 1287A and the 12887A.  The 1287A has an external lithium battery soldered to the motherboard.  The 12887A has much larger case that houses an internal button cell battery.
> If you removed the battery from the motherboard, the 1287A would "dump."  Time of day (and probably password) would need to be set.
> If you shorted the battery in the 12887A, it too would dump and now you have a dead battery.  Time of day (and possibly the password) would have to be set each time at power up. IIRC, you can't short the battery on the 12887A because the battery pins do not extend out of the bottom of the chip.
> That's my $.02.
> -Shawn
>
>  
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: bigwalk_ca <bigwalk_ca@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 8:47:58 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name
>
> Most of my references to BIOS should have been to CMOS on the Dallas chip. Would grounding the chip depend on a little bit of power left in the chip ? One would think that like a capacitor, grounding it would simply remove any residual charge and presumably any data on it.
> Again I maintain, it worked for me and my memory is not so fragile that I misrecall the results of my grounding the onboard chip. Now perhaps it only worked with the original Dallas chip and ISTR a reference to replacing it only with the 1287A Dallas chip. Perhaps this new data J. presented can clear up the puzzle.
>
> I assure you all that I take vintage computers seriously and do not make BS statements freely, like some of the younger vintage adherents might to score brownie points.
>
> Lawrence
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@> wrote:
> >
> >  Hi Dave glad to see you're still about. Are you still motorcycling ? I'm 73 and while my memory isn't as good as it used to be and at times I have to search books to reacquaint myself with learned knowledge which I used to take for granted. Don't be intimidated by age. I've known many people who were aged before they reached 40, as I'm sure you do. From my perspective you're still a young man. All sorts of studies are out there that an inactive mind encourages Dementia(Altheimers). Younger people tend to have a busier metabolism which can tend to be annoying at times, but we have a wealth of experience which they are still learning. Heart attacks are disabling but good diet and exercise can re-enable you. Just don't give in to the mythology of the youth culture which is so current in our society. Sure we lose some of our speed and physical abilities, but I'm inspired by many like "Jackrabbit" Johanneson who was still making crosscountry 50mi. skiing
> >  trips at 95, or so many of the aged artists or writers who are still very proficient.
> >
> > On this whole password issue I still hold that grounding out the Dallas chip erases the BIOS and any sort of password or password need. The original spec sheet of the Dallas chip mentions this, IIRC, or else I saw it in one of the old Grid postings on usenet. I do remember the problems of disassembling the 1520 and getting under the keyboard at the chip in order to make my 1520 functional. I can only imagine it was the
> > password problem. I can't see any other reason for disassembling my Grid to get at the chip. I definitely did not replace the chip. Occasionally I would have to open it up and rap the HDD sharply with a rubber handled screwdriver to get the HD working because it wouldn't retain the RAM chip xts settings which means they weren't in the BIOS but perhaps the autoexec. I haven't played with it for some time as my time seems to be taken up lately by just keeping my newer "Gee-Whiz-Bang" computers functioning and enabling other old computers in my considerable collection, so that I can sell them before they become a problem which the executor of my estate, my nephew,  is ill-equiped to deal with. As well as gardening and renovating my 100-year old house.
> >
> >  I have the Grid SCSI module with it's docs and program. It mentions the place in memory where it places the code which enables the SCSI interface. I must admit to not ever using it. I think there is only a limited amount of BIOS on the Dallas chip. That related to time and password. If the SCSI code is not entered on the Dallas chip surely there are other BIOS locations which are accessable and changeable with the proper assembly code as used by the SCSI module. Similarly, I have used Zip drives on other computers with small HDs. Has anyone tried using the many AT BIOS programs like getbios.com. I seem to recall they didn't work to set the BIOS but I can't recall. A CF would be great but I think the BIOS and the Grid would have to have some sort of PCMCIA capabilities, which would entail even greater problems. But perhaps some sort of module having DMA capabilities like the SCSI one could work.
> >
> >  Mike Brutman's post also seems to place some questions as to the password NEED being related to the Dallas chip. I know I used my 1520s for years, without a password problem, altho I had to update the time, date, settings,( if I wanted to) which would indicate a dead Dallas battery. When I get the time, which would likely be less than the time I spent on this post, I'll dig the working( I removed the SIPPs on one in order to get 8M ram) Grid out and boot it up with a floppy.
> >
> > Lawrence
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: wd8cyv <wd8cyv@>
> > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 7:52:09 PM
> > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: what is file name
> >
> > 
> > page 404 error on Shawnerz's link
> > and the hd change is way beyond my skill level any more
> > had a heart attack in 2003 and it took out a bunch of my skills
> > sad to say most of the complex electrical stuff i knew
> > and age 64 is a bit late to relearn how to burn eproms
> >
> > would need some one to burn them for me
> > i can get them into the machine
> > dave
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >      __________________________________________________________________
> > Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2097
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 02:23:20 +0100
From: Andrea
Subject: DALLAS RTC12887 1287A

Hi
I don't remember exactly but after changing the battery on the Dallas 
the computer restarts without asking
the password, I don't think it was none left residual energy on the chip 
even  I desolder from the motherboard and cut the
wires from the internal battery to the pin of the RTC. I also added a 
switch between ground and the RCLR pin but I don't think I ever used. 
Recently on my 1550sx, triyng to understand which data the computer 
writes on the Cmos memory, I  tried an utility that read or kill data 
file to Cmos memory . Erasing all data, the computer asked me the 
password, an old post advised to unplug the battery leaving it for a few 
hours. After that the computer restarted normally.
Andrea
.
This is the description of  the use of the RCLR pins  found on the 
DS12887 datasheet

DESCRIPTION
The DS12887A real-time clock plus RAM is designed to be a direct 
replacement for the DS1287A. The
DS12887A is identical in form, fit, and function to the DS1287A, and 
includes additional 64 bytes of
general-purpose RAM. Access to this additional RAM space is determined 
by the logic level presented on
AD6 during the address portion of an access cycle. The RCLR pin is used 
to clear (set to logic 1) all 114
bytes of general purpose RAM but does not affect the RAM associated with 
the real-time clock. In order
to clear the RAM, RCLR must be forced to an input logic 0 (-0.3V to 
+0.8V) during battery-backup mode
DS12887A when VCC is not applied. The RCLR function is designed to be 
used via human interface (shorting to ground manually or by switch) and 
not to be driven with external buffers

Yahoo! Message number: 2098
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 19:21:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] DALLAS RTC12887 1287A

Thank you for the information, Andrea.  I'm sure it will be helpful.
-Shawn



----- Original Message ----
From: Andrea <zentaro.cane@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, January 12, 2010 8:23:20 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] DALLAS RTC12887 1287A

Hi
I don't remember exactly but after changing the battery on the Dallas
the computer restarts without asking
the password, I don't think it was none left residual energy on the chip
even  I desolder from the motherboard and cut the
wires from the internal battery to the pin of the RTC. I also added a
switch between ground and the RCLR pin but I don't think I ever used.
Recently on my 1550sx, triyng to understand which data the computer
writes on the Cmos memory, I  tried an utility that read or kill data
file to Cmos memory . Erasing all data, the computer asked me the
password, an old post advised to unplug the battery leaving it for a few
hours. After that the computer restarted normally.
Andrea
.
This is the description of  the use of the RCLR pins  found on the
DS12887 datasheet

DESCRIPTION
The DS12887A real-time clock plus RAM is designed to be a direct
replacement for the DS1287A. The
DS12887A is identical in form, fit, and function to the DS1287A, and
includes additional 64 bytes of
general-purpose RAM. Access to this additional RAM space is determined
by the logic level presented on
AD6 during the address portion of an access cycle. The RCLR pin is used
to clear (set to logic 1) all 114
bytes of general purpose RAM but does not affect the RAM associated with
the real-time clock. In order
to clear the RAM, RCLR must be forced to an input logic 0 (-0.3V to
+0.8V) during battery-backup mode
DS12887A when VCC is not applied. The RCLR function is designed to be
used via human interface (shorting to ground manually or by switch) and
not to be driven with external buffers


------------------------------------

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Yahoo! Message number: 2099
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:58:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Files Section Limit

Sorry I haven't responded to this, Phil.  I've just been lazy.
We have 100 MB if file space and it doesn't look like I can increase it.  Currently, it's at 62% so I guess that means we've used 62 MB. ;-)
Currently, my ftp port is shut off to keep the bot's from trying to hack in.  If you have linux, you can ssh in.
As far as storage location, I'd prefer not to keep it.  I have home DSL and the bandwidth starts choking when people start ftp-ing from my server.  My wife and kids start complaining about how slow the computer is.
If you'd like to keep the information on your server, that's fine.  I can transfer my stuff to your server but my guess is you have the same manuals and files that I do.
Just let me know what you'd like to do.
Thanks,
-Shawn

 


----- Original Message ----
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 8:02:09 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Files Section Limit

Shawn,

When I put up the manuals into the files section, it appears I maxed out the storage capacity for the files. Are you able to get storage capacity increased by Yahoo to enable more files being put in? If not, I think I would delete the manuals out of that section and simply make provisions for them to be downloaded off your server, or I can probably be able to put them on my server. What do you think?

Phil



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2100
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 03:50:43 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Files Section Limit

Shawn,

Okay, I guess that we haven't reached the limit. When I tried to load all of the manuals way back when, it wouldn't let me do it. It said I had exceeded the limit. So I thought I had maxxed out the storage space that was left just with my files. If you are right and you still have 38 Mb left, then I probably was just loading a manual that is way too big. I will try a little later to upload some other stuff and see if it works. If not, I can take off all of my files to free up some room and set them up on my server.

In any case, I will go ahead and set up something on my server for my files to keep them from taking too much of your bandwidth. I have a web site of which I am the administrator and it is located on a web server on which I can control a large domain. I'll let you know when I get it set up.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry I haven't responded to this, Phil.  I've just been lazy.
> We have 100 MB if file space and it doesn't look like I can increase it.  Currently, it's at 62% so I guess that means we've used 62 MB. ;-)
> Currently, my ftp port is shut off to keep the bot's from trying to hack in.  If you have linux, you can ssh in.
> As far as storage location, I'd prefer not to keep it.  I have home DSL and the bandwidth starts choking when people start ftp-ing from my server.  My wife and kids start complaining about how slow the computer is.
> If you'd like to keep the information on your server, that's fine.  I can transfer my stuff to your server but my guess is you have the same manuals and files that I do.
> Just let me know what you'd like to do.
> Thanks,
> -Shawn
>
>  
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 8:02:09 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Files Section Limit
>
> Shawn,
>
> When I put up the manuals into the files section, it appears I maxed out the storage capacity for the files. Are you able to get storage capacity increased by Yahoo to enable more files being put in? If not, I think I would delete the manuals out of that section and simply make provisions for them to be downloaded off your server, or I can probably be able to put them on my server. What do you think?
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2101
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 11:39:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Repair post on Vintage Computer Forum

 There was an interesting thread on VCF recently regarding repairing a faulty LCD screen on a 1520. Would also apply to other LCD displays.

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?19156-GRiDCase-1520-LCD-screen-dotting

Lawrence


      __________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! 

http://www.flickr.com/gift/

Yahoo! Message number: 2102
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:45:15 -0000
From: "untergrundbiber"
Subject: GRiDCase 2

Hello

i found a GRiDCase 2 in the trash at work.
There is a label with "Grid Case 12XX" on the back
Have you any information about this?

Bye

Yahoo! Message number: 2103
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 15:04:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDCase 2

Hello and welcome to the group.
I do not know anything about that Grid.  I have a 1520, 1550SX, and an older 1044.  The 1520 is an 80286, the 1550SX is an 80386SX, and I think the 1044 might be a 8086 or another 286.  I haven't played with the 1044.
Is the 1200 series rugged?  Do they look like they are tough and can be in a harsh environment?
-Shawn



----- Original Message ----
From: untergrundbiber <untergrundbiber@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 3:45:15 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDCase 2

Hello

i found a GRiDCase 2 in the trash at work.
There is a label with "Grid Case 12XX" on the back
Have you any information about this?

Bye



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2104
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 01:20:22 -0000
From: "untergrundbiber"
Subject: Re: GRiDCase 2

thanks for the welcome

The 12XX looks like this:
http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/gridcase-2/index.html

But my Gridcase has no modem-port at the back and another floppydisk-drive.
Is label by the german subcompany "GRID Computer Systeme GmbH"

I hope i can make photos in the next days

Unfortunately the 4 ROM (RAM?) chip are missing.

Sorry for my bad english i am, like my Gridcase, from Germany too :D

Bye

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Hello and welcome to the group.
> I do not know anything about that Grid.  I have a 1520, 1550SX, and an older 1044.  The 1520 is an 80286, the 1550SX is an 80386SX, and I think the 1044 might be a 8086 or another 286.  I haven't played with the 1044.
> Is the 1200 series rugged?  Do they look like they are tough and can be in a harsh environment?
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: untergrundbiber <untergrundbiber@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 3:45:15 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDCase 2
>
> Hello
>
> i found a GRiDCase 2 in the trash at work.
> There is a label with "Grid Case 12XX" on the back
> Have you any information about this?
>
> Bye
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2105
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:39:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDCase 2

I am not certain, but I think the Grid 2 is a '286. 
If you want to dis-assemble your Grid and look inside, it is fairly easy.  If you have not already removed the cover, here is the way to do it:
You included a link below.  In picture CIMG3363.JPG (the rear of the Grid).  Above the 'Off/On' switch, there is a rubber "foot."  You can use a small screwdriver to remove the foot.
The foot is a cover to a screw.  Remove the screw and the other screw on the opposite side.  The rear cover should be able to be removed.
Good luck and I hope you are able to find a use for the computer. :)
-Shawn



----- Original Message ----
From: untergrundbiber <untergrundbiber@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 8:20:22 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDCase 2

thanks for the welcome

The 12XX looks like this:
http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/gridcase-2/index.html

But my Gridcase has no modem-port at the back and another floppydisk-drive.
Is label by the german subcompany "GRID Computer Systeme GmbH"

I hope i can make photos in the next days

Unfortunately the 4 ROM (RAM?) chip are missing.

Sorry for my bad english i am, like my Gridcase, from Germany too :D

Bye

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Hello and welcome to the group.
> I do not know anything about that Grid.  I have a 1520, 1550SX, and an older 1044.  The 1520 is an 80286, the 1550SX is an 80386SX, and I think the 1044 might be a 8086 or another 286.  I haven't played with the 1044.
> Is the 1200 series rugged?  Do they look like they are tough and can be in a harsh environment?
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: untergrundbiber <untergrundbiber@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 3:45:15 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDCase 2
>
> Hello
>
> i found a GRiDCase 2 in the trash at work.
> There is a label with "Grid Case 12XX" on the back
> Have you any information about this?
>
> Bye
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>




------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2106
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 04:23:29 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDCase 2

Hi, untergrundbiber,

The Gridcase 2 is actually an older 8086 8 bit computer. Here is the data on it:

NAME   GridCase
MANUFACTURER   Grid
TYPE   Professional Computer
ORIGIN   U.S.A.
YEAR   1985
BUILT IN LANGUAGE   None
KEYBOARD   57-key IBM PCjr-compatible
CPU   80C86 - low-power version (Low Power 8086)
SPEED   4.77 MHz
CO-PROCESSOR   Socket for an 8087 math corpocessor
RAM   128 KB up to 512 KB
VRAM   16 KB
ROM   Up to 512KB of user installable ROMs (4 slots)
TEXT MODES   80 characters x 25 lines
GRAPHIC MODES   640 x 200 pixels
COLORS   Monochrome
SOUND   Built-in speaker
SIZE / WEIGHT   28.5 (W) x 38 (D) x 5.7 (H) cm / 5.8 kg
I/O PORTS   External colour monitor, Serial and Parallel ports, RJ11 phone jack, external PC keyboard, 50-pin expansion bus
BUILT IN MEDIA   3.5'' 720 KB FDD
OS   MS-DOS 2.11, Grid-OS (proprietary OS)
POWER SUPPLY   External AC supply, rechargeable battery pack
PERIPHERALS   Internal 1200-baud modem ($795), external 5.25'' FDD ($895)
PRICE   I $2975 - II $3150 - III $4350 - IV $4550

(The prices are 1985 prices BTW)

I hope this answers your question.

Phil


--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> I am not certain, but I think the Grid 2 is a '286. 
> If you want to dis-assemble your Grid and look inside, it is fairly easy.  If you have not already removed the cover, here is the way to do it:
> You included a link below.  In picture CIMG3363.JPG (the rear of the Grid).  Above the 'Off/On' switch, there is a rubber "foot."  You can use a small screwdriver to remove the foot.
> The foot is a cover to a screw.  Remove the screw and the other screw on the opposite side.  The rear cover should be able to be removed.
> Good luck and I hope you are able to find a use for the computer. :)
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: untergrundbiber <untergrundbiber@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 8:20:22 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDCase 2
>
> thanks for the welcome
>
> The 12XX looks like this:
> http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/gridcase-2/index.html
>
> But my Gridcase has no modem-port at the back and another floppydisk-drive.
> Is label by the german subcompany "GRID Computer Systeme GmbH"
>
> I hope i can make photos in the next days
>
> Unfortunately the 4 ROM (RAM?) chip are missing.
>
> Sorry for my bad english i am, like my Gridcase, from Germany too :D
>
> Bye
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello and welcome to the group.
> > I do not know anything about that Grid.  I have a 1520, 1550SX, and an older 1044.  The 1520 is an 80286, the 1550SX is an 80386SX, and I think the 1044 might be a 8086 or another 286.  I haven't played with the 1044.
> > Is the 1200 series rugged?  Do they look like they are tough and can be in a harsh environment?
> > -Shawn
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: untergrundbiber <untergrundbiber@>
> > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 3:45:15 PM
> > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDCase 2
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > i found a GRiDCase 2 in the trash at work.
> > There is a label with "Grid Case 12XX" on the back
> > Have you any information about this?
> >
> > Bye
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2107
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:56:14 -0000
From: "ancomble"
Subject: rugged military mini laptop termite LT450N

Hello All,

i have here for sale a mini laptop termite LT450N runs under win 2000.
comes with new but death battery,2 l-ion cells can be changed for newones,battery is easy to open.
comes with powersupply and must have 12-24 volts.

price is 450 euro.
for picture's please mail to me at ancom@online.nl


i try also to uplode some picture's

Yahoo! Message number: 2108
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 17:39:40 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Introduction

Hi, All.

I'm a newbie here (thanks to the moderator for approving me), and just
wanted to introduce myself.  I'm Tom Rutherford, living in Burton, Michigan.
I've been into computers off and on since about 1977, when I took a FORTRAN
course at Mott Community College, working on a little Xerox mainframe.
"Little", but more than I could put in my back pocket at the time.  :-)  It
filled a room, pretty much, but only had about 256K of main storage.
Anyway, I got most of a B.S. in Computer Science at the University of
Michigan-Flint from 1982 thru 1984, with a few credits that transferred from
Mott.  I played with Commodore 8-bit junk from about '83 through '90, when I
bought my first 16-bit computer, an XT compatible built around a WaveMate
Bullet-286 motherboard.  A few years later, I was given a GRiD 1520 lapful,
and she's intrigued me off and on ever since.  Finding the CMOS battery has
been a challenge, but thanks to some files I downloaded from the group
website (thanks, guys!), I might be able to find the durn' thing, finally!
:-)

I like the GRiD.  I wish my ThinkPad were built as tough as that thing!  It
is tough, but I understand that some people have run over their GRiDs with
cars, and only scuffed the finish.  I'm afraid that even though the ThinkPad
was built by Lenovo to IBM standards, it wouldn't stand up against that.

Anyway, just wanted to jump in and say hi.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
(Reply-To address may be anti-spammed.)

Yahoo! Message number: 2109
Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 01:09:12 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Introduction

Welcome aboard, Tom,

Glad to have you here. If you have any other questions about your GRiD, we'll try to answer them as best we can. We've managed to dig up a fair amount of information on it.

Sincerely,

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, All.
>
> I'm a newbie here (thanks to the moderator for approving me), and just
> wanted to introduce myself.  I'm Tom Rutherford, living in Burton, Michigan.
> I've been into computers off and on since about 1977, when I took a FORTRAN
> course at Mott Community College, working on a little Xerox mainframe.
> "Little", but more than I could put in my back pocket at the time.  :-)  It
> filled a room, pretty much, but only had about 256K of main storage.
> Anyway, I got most of a B.S. in Computer Science at the University of
> Michigan-Flint from 1982 thru 1984, with a few credits that transferred from
> Mott.  I played with Commodore 8-bit junk from about '83 through '90, when I
> bought my first 16-bit computer, an XT compatible built around a WaveMate
> Bullet-286 motherboard.  A few years later, I was given a GRiD 1520 lapful,
> and she's intrigued me off and on ever since.  Finding the CMOS battery has
> been a challenge, but thanks to some files I downloaded from the group
> website (thanks, guys!), I might be able to find the durn' thing, finally!
> :-)
>
> I like the GRiD.  I wish my ThinkPad were built as tough as that thing!  It
> is tough, but I understand that some people have run over their GRiDs with
> cars, and only scuffed the finish.  I'm afraid that even though the ThinkPad
> was built by Lenovo to IBM standards, it wouldn't stand up against that.
>
> Anyway, just wanted to jump in and say hi.
>
> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
> (Reply-To address may be anti-spammed.)
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2110
Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 09:46:19 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Introduction

Thanks, Phil.  I'll certainly do that.  I am impressed by the amount of info
that I saw while perusing your files section.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
(Reply-To address may be anti-spammed.)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 9:09 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Introduction


> Welcome aboard, Tom,
>
> Glad to have you here. If you have any other questions about your GRiD,
we'll try to answer them as best we can. We've managed to dig up a fair
amount of information on it.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, All.
> >
> > I'm a newbie here (thanks to the moderator for approving me), and just
> > wanted to introduce myself.  I'm Tom Rutherford, living in Burton,
Michigan.
> > I've been into computers off and on since about 1977, when I took a
FORTRAN
> > course at Mott Community College, working on a little Xerox mainframe.
> > "Little", but more than I could put in my back pocket at the time.  :-)
It
> > filled a room, pretty much, but only had about 256K of main storage.
> > Anyway, I got most of a B.S. in Computer Science at the University of
> > Michigan-Flint from 1982 thru 1984, with a few credits that transferred
from
> > Mott.  I played with Commodore 8-bit junk from about '83 through '90,
when I
> > bought my first 16-bit computer, an XT compatible built around a
WaveMate
> > Bullet-286 motherboard.  A few years later, I was given a GRiD 1520
lapful,
> > and she's intrigued me off and on ever since.  Finding the CMOS battery
has
> > been a challenge, but thanks to some files I downloaded from the group
> > website (thanks, guys!), I might be able to find the durn' thing,
finally!
> > :-)
> >
> > I like the GRiD.  I wish my ThinkPad were built as tough as that thing!
It
> > is tough, but I understand that some people have run over their GRiDs
with
> > cars, and only scuffed the finish.  I'm afraid that even though the
ThinkPad
> > was built by Lenovo to IBM standards, it wouldn't stand up against that.
> >
> > Anyway, just wanted to jump in and say hi.
> >
> > -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> > "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
> > (Reply-To address may be anti-spammed.)
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2111
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 20:52:41 -0000
From: "nitoriustupac337"
Subject: I have a...

I have a gridcase 1530 laptop given to me for free by a good ham buddy of mine. Problem is, I can not get it to work, i can't seem to figure out what is wrong with it, it shows the ram then says boot error. Need some help...

Yahoo! Message number: 2112
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 15:19:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] I have a...

nitoriustupac,
Do you have a bootable floopy disk?  If so, insert the disk in the drive.  When the Grid boots and gives you that error, hit F1.  The computer should reboot and then boot from the floppy disk.  You might have to do it a couple of times.
Let us know if that works for you and then we can give you more information.
Good luck,
-Shawn


----- Original Message ----
From: nitoriustupac337 <nitoriustupac337@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 9:52:41 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] I have a...

I have a gridcase 1530 laptop given to me for free by a good ham buddy of mine. Problem is, I can not get it to work, i can't seem to figure out what is wrong with it, it shows the ram then says boot error. Need some help...



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2113
Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 21:53:43 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] I have a...

Have you tried it with a DOS floppy?  If that works, see if you can access 
the hard drive.  It might just be a matter of "refreshing" DOS.  It's been 
so long since I've done it, though, I'd have to really shake up the ol' grey 
matter in order to remember it.  Good luck!

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was her or the-- radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "nitoriustupac337" <nitoriustupac337@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] I have a...


>I have a gridcase 1530 laptop given to me for free by a good ham buddy of 
>mine. Problem is, I can not get it to work, i can't seem to figure out what 
>is wrong with it, it shows the ram then says boot error. Need some help...
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2114
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 14:16:11 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: I have a...

Hi, nitoriustupac337,

      What Shawn and Tom have advised you so do will work. Chances are you are running into situation where the computer is telling you after the POST that it is unable to to boot due to 'configuration code 02'. This means that the CMOS battery inside the computer is dead, which only makes sense because those batteries only last a maximum of ten years, and the computer is more than 20 years old (more like 25). When the CMOS battery is active, there is information in its circuits that allow it to identify the hard drive. With the battery dead, the computer cannot recognize the hard drive, therefore it cannot see it and use it, so it appears like there is a hard drive failure or like the hard drive is not even there.
      However, if the CMOS battery is depleted enough (which is what I think), sometimes the computer will not even see the floppy drive (this has happened to me a couple of times), since information about it is also stored in the CMOS circuits supported by the CMOS battery. Why this happens with some of these old GRiD's and not others is unclear. In any case, even if you cannot get the computer to boot from a floppy drive, the fix may still be quite simple.
      It would require taking the computer partially apart and finding the CMOS battery and replacing it. Replacements for the battery are easy to do, but require you to do a little soldering work. The only drawback to this is if you have a computer that still uses a Dallas RTC real time clock chip, in which case, replacing the battery is going to be a significantly more difficult process.
      If you really want to do this much work on the computer, look in the files section and you will see there a file I have uploaded called 'GRiDCASE 1500 DISASSEMBLY_REASSEMBLY Instructions.pdf. This file will tell you how to take the computer apart and put it back together again. You do not have to take the entire thing part though. You only need to remove the top cover, display screen, and the keyboard bevel (the cover around the keyboard), to get to the point to see the battery. If the battery is there, you can replace it quite easily. If not, then you have a Dallas RTC motherboard, which is more problematic.
      Let us know how it goes, and if you need more help in resolving the problem.

Phil


--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "nitoriustupac337" <nitoriustupac337@...> wrote:
>
> I have a gridcase 1530 laptop given to me for free by a good ham buddy of mine. Problem is, I can not get it to work, i can't seem to figure out what is wrong with it, it shows the ram then says boot error. Need some help...
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2115
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 16:55:27 -0000
From: "jzmudzki"
Subject: Hdlook.exe don't work.

I have a Conner CFS420A Hard-drive witch i try to install in a GRiD 1520. I tried the Instructions i found in this Group.

I connected the Drive to all may PCs. The drive is detected by the BIOS and works. But when I start HDLOOK.EXE form MS-DOS6.22 prompt. The Displayed Values makes no sense. On one PC i get ~45000 Cylinders on another there are 0 Cylinders.
Can someone help me with this?

Yahoo! Message number: 2116
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 10:03:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Hdlook.exe don't work.

Hello Jacek.  Yes, I can help you.  Can you please post the contents of hdlook?
If the floppy drive is working, and if you have a floopy drive in your computer, you can type store it to floppy then transfer the file to your PC.
To do this, type 'hdlook.exe > a:\foo.txt'
Then, put the floppy in your PC.  Then, copy and paste foo.txt to your PC.
Thanks,
-Shawn
P.S.  Welcome to the group!

 
----- Original Message ----
From: jzmudzki <jacek.zmudzki@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 12:55:27 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Hdlook.exe don't work.

I have a Conner CFS420A Hard-drive witch i try to install in a GRiD 1520. I tried the Instructions i found in this Group.

I connected the Drive to all may PCs. The drive is detected by the BIOS and works. But when I start HDLOOK.EXE form MS-DOS6.22 prompt. The Displayed Values makes no sense. On one PC i get ~45000 Cylinders on another there are 0 Cylinders.
Can someone help me with this?



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2117
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 05:21:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Comment from new user

Comment:
"I found this groop via Google and it semms to be the best Grid group all over the world."

Yeah, well, what can I say? ;-)  When you're already the best in the world, why look any place else?" ;-)

Yahoo! Message number: 2118
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 03:05:37 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: busy

looks like everyone is working on the summer projects
see you all this fall after motorcycle weather goes away
dave

all mine now have dead battery's in the 1278 Dallas chips

Yahoo! Message number: 2119
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 03:50:30 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: busy

Hey, Dave,

Good to hear from you. In case you haven't seen it in recent postings, I have found a work around for the dead 1287's. It does require replacement of the 1287, something I have done myself now several times. If it's a 1287A, you should be able to short out the RESET and RCLR pins to ground, which will default the settings of the RTC and allow the computer to boot up with the new chip, just as Lawrence had detailed before. There may be some earlier motherboard revisions, however, that won't let you do this, especially if the chip you are replacing is the 1287 itself, not the 1287A. In that case, sometimes you can not replace the chip with another one without getting into the endless password loop. However, I have found a way to get around that in the BIOS code, which takes a very small change. You would have to burn new BIOS chips to do it. Anyway, the options are there if you wish to pursue them. Just FYI.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
> looks like everyone is working on the summer projects
> see you all this fall after motorcycle weather goes away
> dave
>
> all mine now have dead battery's in the 1278 Dallas chips
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2120
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 11:59:09 -0000
From: "groves_ca"
Subject: Two issues

I've got a Gridcase 1520, and two things are slowing me down from putting it to use.

First, I cannot format.  Attempts to do so yield a "Division By Zero" error, regardless of what floppy I put in.  An attempt to format the hard drive came to the same.  This happens before any "Are you sure?" message comes up.  I am running MS-DOS 3.2 on the machine.

Second, I cannot easily transfer information to or from the device.  I have a ZIP drive, but unless I can get DOS 4.0 on the machine - which requires formatting floppies, or some other trick - I cannot use it.  Serial transfer is also out, due to the fact that the modem gets the COM port on this model, and a software command is needed to toggle to the other COM port - which software I do not have, and cannot transfer to the computer if I did.  Attempts to format floppy disks to 720k on other machines fail.

Any suggestions?

Yahoo! Message number: 2121
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 10:24:32 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Two issues

I haven't looked at it in ages, but I think my 1520 has a 1.44MB floppy 
drive.  That may be your problem, although the "division by zero" error 
sounds pretty funky.  You might try DR DOS on it.  I think they're up to 
7.3something now.  It was free for a long time, but now, a company called 
DRDOS, Inc. owns it, and they want $25 a copy.  No support.  If you want to 
buy it out, it'll cost you $25K.  (No, I didn't think that was a great idea, 
either.  <g>)  Anyway, details are here:  http://www.drdos.com/  Good luck!

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "groves_ca" <the.tail.kinker@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 7:59 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Two issues


> I've got a Gridcase 1520, and two things are slowing me down from putting 
> it to use.
>
> First, I cannot format.  Attempts to do so yield a "Division By Zero" 
> error, regardless of what floppy I put in.  An attempt to format the hard 
> drive came to the same.  This happens before any "Are you sure?" message 
> comes up.  I am running MS-DOS 3.2 on the machine.
>
> Second, I cannot easily transfer information to or from the device.  I 
> have a ZIP drive, but unless I can get DOS 4.0 on the machine - which 
> requires formatting floppies, or some other trick - I cannot use it. 
> Serial transfer is also out, due to the fact that the modem gets the COM 
> port on this model, and a software command is needed to toggle to the 
> other COM port - which software I do not have, and cannot transfer to the 
> computer if I did.  Attempts to format floppy disks to 720k on other 
> machines fail.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2122
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 03:45:08 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Two issues

Hi, Tim,

If I read your post correctly, you can at least boot up to a C:\ prompt. The "divide by zero" error has to be coming from the specific code in the OS software running the format command. Therefore I think your MSDOS 3.2 may have suffered some corruption. Because it is happened to both your floppy and hard drives, I would doubt a hardware issue. Unless you are specifically wedded to MS-DOS 3.2, I would strongly recommend that you upgrade to MSDOS 6.22. It will run well on your machine. Otherwise, you would have to find MSDOS 3.2 on the net and download it and reinstall it on your machine. I suggest Vetusware at:

http://vetusware.com/download/MS-DOS%206.22%20Setup%20Floppy%20Images%20_VMWare_%206.22/?id=5019

This site features "abandonware", and the full setup of MSDOS 6.22 is there. Technically, MS does not give tyhe full version away, and you can find it for sale for about $30 or so. But this site lets you have it for fee. YOu can probably find MSDOS 3.2 there as well if you wish. Now if If you are not confortable with that, you can get the stepup files (basically an upgrade on any previous MDSDOS versions)from Microsoft itself at the following address.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=96cc3197-b7e5-4b31-badb-ddaac771295f&DisplayLang=en

Of course, you will need to download and create the floppies on another machine. But once you do, you should be able to load the disks in your 1520 and upgrade the OS. I think that should solve your problem.

As to your second problem, I would not recommend DOS 4.0. It was actually quite unstable which is why they went to DOS 5.0 very quickly. In any case. DOS 6.22 will be able to handle things with your ZIP drive in terms of being to get the proper drivers installed to access it, and will do it better than DOS 4.0

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "groves_ca" <the.tail.kinker@...> wrote:
>
> I've got a Gridcase 1520, and two things are slowing me down from putting it to use.
>
> First, I cannot format.  Attempts to do so yield a "Division By Zero" error, regardless of what floppy I put in.  An attempt to format the hard drive came to the same.  This happens before any "Are you sure?" message comes up.  I am running MS-DOS 3.2 on the machine.
>
> Second, I cannot easily transfer information to or from the device.  I have a ZIP drive, but unless I can get DOS 4.0 on the machine - which requires formatting floppies, or some other trick - I cannot use it.  Serial transfer is also out, due to the fact that the modem gets the COM port on this model, and a software command is needed to toggle to the other COM port - which software I do not have, and cannot transfer to the computer if I did.  Attempts to format floppy disks to 720k on other machines fail.
>
> Any suggestions?
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2123
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:31:03 -0400
From: Tail Kinker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Two issues

Tom Rutherford wrote:
>  
>
> I haven't looked at it in ages, but I think my 1520 has a 1.44MB floppy
> drive. That may be your problem, although the "division by zero" error
> sounds pretty funky. You might try DR DOS on it. I think they're up to
> 7.3something now. It was free for a long time, but now, a company called
> DRDOS, Inc. owns it, and they want $25 a copy. No support. If you want to
> buy it out, it'll cost you $25K. (No, I didn't think that was a great 
> idea,
> either. <g>) Anyway, details are here: http://www.drdos.com/ Good luck!
>
No, I've confirmed that my 1520 has only a 720k.  If I have a spare 
1.44m kicking about, can I just install it, or will the Grid have a cow?

As to DR DOS, or any other DOS, I would first need a 1.44m floppy in the 
Grid, or be able to reformat 1.44 floppies to 720k on the Grid itself.  
My only other computer with a floppy has an external USB floppy, that 
can't format down to 720k.

Yahoo! Message number: 2124
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 04:20:26 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Two issues

> No, I've confirmed that my 1520 has only a 720k.  If I have a spare
> 1.44m kicking about, can I just install it, or will the Grid have a cow?
>
> As to DR DOS, or any other DOS, I would first need a 1.44m floppy in >the Grid, or be able to reformat 1.44 floppies to 720k on the Grid >itself. My only other computer with a floppy has an external USB >floppy, that can't format down to 720k.

If you can find a old 1520 that's busted, you can probably salvage the 1.44Mb floppy drive off of it. The 1520 and its BIOS will be able to recognize it just fine. I have several 1520's whihc all have 1.44 Mb drives.

However, your external 1.44 Mb drive should be able to format a 720K just fine. That's not a hardware problem. That's a software problem. You have to use a formatting utility that has an option that will allow you to do that.

Yahoo! Message number: 2125
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:40:19 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Two issues

> Tom Rutherford wrote:
>>
>>
>> I haven't looked at it in ages, but I think my 1520 has a 1.44MB floppy
>> drive. That may be your problem, although the "division by zero" error
>> sounds pretty funky. You might try DR DOS on it. I think they're up to
>> 7.3something now. It was free for a long time, but now, a company called
>> DRDOS, Inc. owns it, and they want $25 a copy. No support. If you want to
>> buy it out, it'll cost you $25K. (No, I didn't think that was a great
>> idea,
>> either. <g>) Anyway, details are here: http://www.drdos.com/ Good luck!
>>
> No, I've confirmed that my 1520 has only a 720k.  If I have a spare
> 1.44m kicking about, can I just install it, or will the Grid have a cow?

You can try, but I don't know if it'll fit.  I haven't had mine apart yet to 
verify how standard the drives are.

> As to DR DOS, or any other DOS, I would first need a 1.44m floppy in the
> Grid, or be able to reformat 1.44 floppies to 720k on the Grid itself.
> My only other computer with a floppy has an external USB floppy, that
> can't format down to 720k.

Actually, it probably can, but you have to *start* with a double-density 
disk.  If you *can* format a 1.44MB disk to 720K, it could do weird things. 
The media, as I understand it, is different with the two types of disks. 
You can try to cover the hole in the upper-left corner of the 1.44M disk; 
use a piece of black electrical tape, and cover both sides.  The drive 
should detect it as a 720K disk, but again, the media being different, it 
might be weird.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."

Yahoo! Message number: 2126
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 09:47:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Two issues

I *thought* my 1520 had 720k drives, but I found that it read my 1.44M DOS 5.0 
and DOS 6.22 disks with no problems.

TK: On a computer with a floppy, make sure there is a notch on the left side of 
the disk.  If there is, format the disk with 'format a: /f:1.44' 

Store a file on it and see if the Grid will see it.

Perhaps my disk drives are newer, but I know they can read 1.44M floppies.
-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2127
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 00:12:05 -0000
From: "Nigel"
Subject: seeking dump of VT100 EPROM for GRiDCase3

Hi everyone, I would like to be able to use my GRiDCase3 as a VT100 terminal without having to use a floppy, but lack the EPROM, has anyone made a dump of one?

Shawnerz: would it be ok if I browsed around your server sometime please? thanks.

Yahoo! Message number: 2128
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 19:20:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] seeking dump of VT100 EPROM for GRiDCase3

Hello there, Nigel.
My Linux server is down right now.  It's a long story.  I will try to reinstall
the hard drives and bring it back up during this week.  Sorry for the
inconvience.

You know Nigel, I remember using Grids at IBM 3270 emulators.  Of course, we had
special EPROMS for that.  Finding Grid terminal (E)PROMS will probably be very
difficult.  I wonder if it would be easier to find a old copy of Procomm Plus
and emulate the terminal.
Just a thought.
-Shawn



----- Original Message ----
From: Nigel <nigel.d.williams@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, August 23, 2010 8:12:05 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] seeking dump of VT100 EPROM for GRiDCase3

Hi everyone, I would like to be able to use my GRiDCase3 as a VT100 terminal
without having to use a floppy, but lack the EPROM, has anyone made a dump of
one?

Shawnerz: would it be ok if I browsed around your server sometime please?
thanks.




------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2129
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 03:18:39 -0000
From: "Nigel"
Subject: Re: seeking dump of VT100 EPROM for GRiDCase3

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
> My Linux server is down right now.ďż˝ It's a long story.ďż˝
> I will try to reinstall
> the hard drives and bring it back up during this week.

Thanks for doing this, no hurry on my part.

> You know Nigel, I remember using Grids at IBM 3270 emulators.ďż˝
> Of course, we had special EPROMS for that.ďż˝
> Finding Grid terminal (E)PROMS will probably be very
> difficult.ďż˝

true. I think I have come close a couple of times when people offered to dig up their old GRiD machine, but so far no success, I'll keep trawling. You right though, old copy of some of the terminal programs from back then would certainly work. My preference is to find the GRiD software since it provides such a neat solution.

Yahoo! Message number: 2130
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 05:41:41 -0000
From: "Nigel"
Subject: Re: GRiD product list started
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I updated this list of GRiD products and notes with a few minor things I
discovered after another trawl of archive.org to find dead websites.

Any updates let me know - I would like to construct a gallery of photos
of all the models somewhere too.

As always, if anyone has copies of the original GRiD software: GRiDTerm,
GRiDBASIC etc please let us know.



I have started to construct a list of all the GRiD products at the link
below:
GRiD product list
<http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=rvh_1roHSsEXEkJSI9tO9gw&output=h&#92;
tml>

There  is very little information anywhere on what they made, so I have
extracted model numbers from posts to the GRiDBoard and this group so it
is likely incomplete.

I understand GRiD also released desktop computers too, and had a range
of "server" products (their GRiDCentral system?).

I'll keep adding as I find more out but at least it captures what is
easily found.

Additions, corrections, welcome.

Yahoo! Message number: 2131
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 17:30:50 -0700
From: jim s
Subject: Fwd: Looking for GRiDlite, GRiDlite Plus or GRiDlite 1040 ($$$)
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

  Folks,
I have a request from a fellow on another list which someone here may be 
able to fulfill.

Please contact Sellam directly at

mailto:sellam@...     sellam@...

if you can assist.

My stock of black boxes are buried at the moment, and I don't believe I 
have a unit that fits the bill anyway.

Thanks
Jim

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Looking for GRiDlite, GRiDlite Plus or GRiDlite 1040 ($$$)
Date: 	Wed, 8 Sep 2010 14:24:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: 	Sellam Ismail <sellam@...>
To: 	Classic Computers Mailing List



Hello All!

Hope everyone is well.

I need a GRiDlite, GRiDlite Plus or GRiDlite 1040 for a short term
project.  I'm willing to buy or rent it.

Has to be soon, or the opportunity shall pass.

Inquire if you can assist.

Thanks!

-- 

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers   ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com  || at http://marketplace.vintage.org  ]

Yahoo! Message number: 2132
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 01:51:36 -0000
From: "geezer90awd"
Subject: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

Hey All,

It's been a long time since I posted here.. I was going thru my computer collection and after digging up my GRiD 1535's, I got sidetracked into playing with them again.  I think the last time I posted here (~3 years ago), I had a single 1535 with 2mb ram, 1.4 meg floppy drive and the backlit CGA lcd screen.  I tried making up some 1mb sipps by soldering some pins onto the smallest height simms I could find, but it seemed to only work in DOS and not when loading any floppy based linux mini-distro's.

After that, I got the expansion unit that mounts under the computer.  It didn't really prove to be much use; it has one 16-bit "AT" card slot and one "XT" 8-bit card.  It is my understanding that putting anything hi-tech in there like a SCSI or IDE controller will not work because DMA access isn't supported.  Perhaps some old/slow scsi cards may work, such as the Media Vision Pro-Audio-16's scsi port (in it's I/O polling mode), but that type of controller doesn't even have a BIOS overlay so you'd have to be running linux already to use it.  I'll have to do some more experimenting with this sometime and see if this limitation is really true or not.

Let down by the expansion unit, I grabbed another 1535 that is equipped differently than my first 1535. This one has an extremely primitive looking IDE interface board (a few 7400 series gates and a GAL chip) and sadly no hd, the lcd/vga screen and a 387 coprocessor.  The screen has some funky fractal-looking screen leakage going on, but is still somewhat visible. The backlite is really really dim, and of course the backup battery was dead.  I had tried plugging a few different hard drives in, but nothing really acted differently than having no hard drive on there.  I was able to make some modifications to an old DB-25 external 720k drive for one of my GRiDcase 2's so that I could use a 1.44 meg drive with this machine. After getting nowhere with various hard drives, I gave up on it for a few years.

Back to the present, I figured maybe, just maybe I could get linux going with a network card&boot rom on it.  I rigged the expansion unit up with a 3COM 3c509 and a boot rom I made up with the Rom-O-Matic on www.rom-o-matic.net and attempted a boot.  Sure enough it worked! It started running a Linux kernel, but froze at the point where it was "Setting system time from internal clock".  This more than likely tied in with the "system clock has stopped running" message I get during power-up, so I figured it was finally time to chop out the dead 3.6 volt lithium battery and solder a 3 volt 2032 cell in its place.  After doing that, I booted up a W98 floppy and set the time. Another reboot and the Linux kernel loaded up fully! I couldn't do much from the machine itself with its dim screen, but I could log in remotely and see that linux was in fact running as it should.  I later found out the capability of using the external VGA connector wasn't limited to DOS (by typing the "config video = external" command); the trick being that you need to hit CTRL-ALT-TAB at the exact moment the network card's eprom program comes on, and no later, you can get linux working on an external screen.

Now that I had Linux going, I started plugging various old hard drives in.  Most of them either spun up and did nothing, others failed to spin up (probably dead drives) and one made the disk activity LED flash, but Linux would never see any hard drive. Then, I struck a winning combination - I had a conner ~500mb drive connected and ran thru the config.exe program (which i believe uses the 1520 config program) and set it up for a 720k floppy (it seems to revert back to that no matter how many times I choose 1.4M) and hard drive as Type-1. After that, I did a reboot and by some miracle, the hard drive showed up during the hardware scan at kernel boot time!  At the end of this [long] post is the bootup dmesg for anyone interested.  The 386/16 running conservatively at 12.5MHz yields an unamazing 1.93 bogomips!

Anyway, I'm amazed to say that primitive looking board does appear to work as a real IDE controller that Linux can deal with.  I tried going back to DOS and running Western Digital EZ-BIOS to see if perhaps that could trick the computer into seeing the hard drive at boot time, but sadly it does not see the drive. I'd like to do some hardware/software hacking to see if I can get the machine any closer to thinking it actually has a hard drive installed at boot time.  I have a feeling if the bios running at bootup believed it did have a hard drive, even with incorrect geometry, something like ez-bios could get things working.  I can read/edit/burn eproms and am willing to try out anything, but am not sure where to start. Also, I was wondering, has anybody ever tried to throw a bios from an old 386 motherboard in just to see what happens?

And then on the upgrade path, has anyone ever tried making a 1530/1535 any faster? I yanked the 386/16 in my 2mb/cga 1535 and threw in an Intel 386/25 and replaced the 25MHz oscillator with a socket.  Swapping various crystals in had some interesting results:
Osc.	Norton si.exe rating
25	8.1
30	9.8
32	Didn't work
35.328	Didn't work
36	Didn't work
40	13.3
45	Didn't work, occasional POST beeps
50	Didn't work, occasional POST beeps
So by the looks of it, I could run the 1535 with a 40MHz oscillator (making the CPU run at 20MHz) and it seemed to work with the expansion bay and run thru a thorough memory test (memtest86) without any problems.  It's too early to say if Linux will be happy enough to work with it; that will only happen if I make up some more 1mb sipps to have the needed 8mb.

And one more thing - I successfully ran the RomBuild program made a pair of 27512 boot roms to load DOS on an 8086 based GRIDCASE 3 machine. I burned an additional rom with a nice small(as in less than 20k!) VT100 program I found online. This gives new life to my drive-less gas plasma display GRiD and I'll most certainly use the machine as a console/debugger for my old Sun 2&3 workstations.  Indeed a strange day when it's far more practical to burn some eproms than find a 720k drive and some low density disks that actually work!!


and here is that evidence of Linux running:

Linux version 2.4.37.5 (root@diskless2) (gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release)) #14 Fri Aug 13 23:01:09 EDT 2010
BIOS-provided physical RAM map:
 BIOS-88: 0000000000000000 - 000000000009f000 (usable)
 BIOS-88: 0000000000100000 - 0000000000860000 (usable)
8MB LOWMEM available.
On node 0 totalpages: 2144
zone(0): 2144 pages.
zone(1): 0 pages.
zone(2): 0 pages.
DMI not present.
Kernel command line: rw root=/dev/nfs ip=192.168.1.106:192.168.1.91:192.168.1.1:255.255.255.0:diskless2
Initializing CPU#0
Console: colour VGA+ 80x25
Calibrating delay loop... 1.93 BogoMIPS
Memory: 6320k/8576k available (1163k kernel code, 1868k reserved, 323k data, 68k init, 0k highmem)
Checking if this processor honours the WP bit even in supervisor mode... No.
Dentry cache hash table entries: 2048 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
Inode cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
Mount cache hash table entries: 512 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
Buffer cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
Page-cache hash table entries: 4096 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
CPU:     After generic, caps: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
CPU:             Common caps: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
CPU: 386
Checking 'hlt' instruction... OK.
Checking for popad bug... Buggy.
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.4
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
Initializing RT netlink socket
Starting kswapd
Journalled Block Device driver loaded
pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured
Serial driver version 5.05c (2001-07-08) with no serial options enabled
ttyS00 at 0x03f8 (irq = 4) is a 16450
ttyS01 at 0x02f8 (irq = 3) is a 16450
Real Time Clock Driver v1.10f
Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 720k
DOR0=4
floppy interrupt on bizarre fdc 1
handler=00000000
FDC 0 is an 8272A
eth0: 3c5x9 at 0x300, 10baseT port, address  00 60 8c ed 85 d5, IRQ 10.
3c509.c:1.19 16Oct2002 becker@...
http://www.scyld.com/network/3c509.html
loop: loaded (max 8 devices)
Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 7.00beta4-2.4
ide: Assuming 50MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx
hda: probing with STATUS(0x50) instead of ALTSTATUS(0xff)
hda: Conner Peripherals 545MB - CP30544, ATA DISK drive
ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
hda: attached ide-disk driver.
hda: 1065456 sectors (546 MB) w/256KiB Cache, CHS=1057/16/63
Partition check:
 hda: [PTBL] [528/32/63] hda1 < hda5 >
NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0
IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP, IGMP
IP: routing cache hash table of 512 buckets, 4Kbytes
TCP: Hash tables configured (established 512 bind 512)
eth0: Setting 3c5x9/3c5x9B half-duplex mode if_port: 0, sw_info: 3f20
eth0: Setting Rx mode to 1 addresses.
IP-Config: Complete:
      device=eth0, addr=192.168.1.106, mask=255.255.255.0, gw=192.168.1.1,
     host=diskless2, domain=, nis-domain=(none),
     bootserver=192.168.1.91, rootserver=192.168.1.91, rootpath=
NET4: Unix domain sockets 1.0/SMP for Linux NET4.0.
Looking up port of RPC 100003/2 on 192.168.1.91
Looking up port of RPC 100005/1 on 192.168.1.91
VFS: Mounted root (nfs filesystem).
Freeing unused kernel memory: 68k freed
nfs: server 192.168.1.91 not responding, still trying
nfs: server 192.168.1.91 OK
Adding Swap: 32760k swap-space (priority -1)

Sorry so long a post; certainly a lot of new stuff to report after doing nothing with my GRiDs for several years!

-Kevin

Yahoo! Message number: 2133
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 20:29:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

Wow!  Amazing!
I will have more to post tomorrow.  I'm very impressed-but I have to go to bed.
-Shawn



----- Original Message ----
From: geezer90awd <chiopas@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, October 26, 2010 9:51:36 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

Hey All,

It's been a long time since I posted here.. I was going thru my computer
collection and after digging up my GRiD 1535's, I got sidetracked into playing
with them again.  I think the last time I posted here (~3 years ago), I had a
single 1535 with 2mb ram, 1.4 meg floppy drive and the backlit CGA lcd screen. 
I tried making up some 1mb sipps by soldering some pins onto the smallest height
simms I could find, but it seemed to only work in DOS and not when loading any
floppy based linux mini-distro's.


After that, I got the expansion unit that mounts under the computer.  It didn't
really prove to be much use; it has one 16-bit "AT" card slot and one "XT" 8-bit
card.  It is my understanding that putting anything hi-tech in there like a SCSI
or IDE controller will not work because DMA access isn't supported.  Perhaps
some old/slow scsi cards may work, such as the Media Vision Pro-Audio-16's scsi
port (in it's I/O polling mode), but that type of controller doesn't even have a
BIOS overlay so you'd have to be running linux already to use it.  I'll have to
do some more experimenting with this sometime and see if this limitation is
really true or not.


Let down by the expansion unit, I grabbed another 1535 that is equipped
differently than my first 1535. This one has an extremely primitive looking IDE
interface board (a few 7400 series gates and a GAL chip) and sadly no hd, the
lcd/vga screen and a 387 coprocessor.  The screen has some funky fractal-looking
screen leakage going on, but is still somewhat visible. The backlite is really
really dim, and of course the backup battery was dead.  I had tried plugging a
few different hard drives in, but nothing really acted differently than having
no hard drive on there.  I was able to make some modifications to an old DB-25
external 720k drive for one of my GRiDcase 2's so that I could use a 1.44 meg
drive with this machine. After getting nowhere with various hard drives, I gave
up on it for a few years.


Back to the present, I figured maybe, just maybe I could get linux going with a
network card&boot rom on it.  I rigged the expansion unit up with a 3COM 3c509
and a boot rom I made up with the Rom-O-Matic on www.rom-o-matic.net and
attempted a boot.  Sure enough it worked! It started running a Linux kernel, but
froze at the point where it was "Setting system time from internal clock".  This
more than likely tied in with the "system clock has stopped running" message I
get during power-up, so I figured it was finally time to chop out the dead 3.6
volt lithium battery and solder a 3 volt 2032 cell in its place.  After doing
that, I booted up a W98 floppy and set the time. Another reboot and the Linux
kernel loaded up fully! I couldn't do much from the machine itself with its dim
screen, but I could log in remotely and see that linux was in fact running as it
should.  I later found out the capability of using the external VGA connector
wasn't limited to DOS (by typing the "config video = external" command); the
trick being that you need to hit CTRL-ALT-TAB at the exact moment the network
card's eprom program comes on, and no later, you can get linux working on an
external screen. 


Now that I had Linux going, I started plugging various old hard drives in.  Most
of them either spun up and did nothing, others failed to spin up (probably dead
drives) and one made the disk activity LED flash, but Linux would never see any
hard drive. Then, I struck a winning combination - I had a conner ~500mb drive
connected and ran thru the config.exe program (which i believe uses the 1520
config program) and set it up for a 720k floppy (it seems to revert back to that
no matter how many times I choose 1.4M) and hard drive as Type-1. After that, I
did a reboot and by some miracle, the hard drive showed up during the hardware
scan at kernel boot time!  At the end of this [long] post is the bootup dmesg
for anyone interested.  The 386/16 running conservatively at 12.5MHz yields an
unamazing 1.93 bogomips!


Anyway, I'm amazed to say that primitive looking board does appear to work as a
real IDE controller that Linux can deal with.  I tried going back to DOS and
running Western Digital EZ-BIOS to see if perhaps that could trick the computer
into seeing the hard drive at boot time, but sadly it does not see the drive.
I'd like to do some hardware/software hacking to see if I can get the machine
any closer to thinking it actually has a hard drive installed at boot time.  I
have a feeling if the bios running at bootup believed it did have a hard drive,
even with incorrect geometry, something like ez-bios could get things working. 
I can read/edit/burn eproms and am willing to try out anything, but am not sure
where to start. Also, I was wondering, has anybody ever tried to throw a bios
from an old 386 motherboard in just to see what happens?


And then on the upgrade path, has anyone ever tried making a 1530/1535 any
faster? I yanked the 386/16 in my 2mb/cga 1535 and threw in an Intel 386/25 and
replaced the 25MHz oscillator with a socket.  Swapping various crystals in had
some interesting results:
Osc.    Norton si.exe rating
25    8.1
30    9.8
32    Didn't work
35.328    Didn't work
36    Didn't work
40    13.3
45    Didn't work, occasional POST beeps
50    Didn't work, occasional POST beeps
So by the looks of it, I could run the 1535 with a 40MHz oscillator (making the
CPU run at 20MHz) and it seemed to work with the expansion bay and run thru a
thorough memory test (memtest86) without any problems.  It's too early to say if
Linux will be happy enough to work with it; that will only happen if I make up
some more 1mb sipps to have the needed 8mb.


And one more thing - I successfully ran the RomBuild program made a pair of
27512 boot roms to load DOS on an 8086 based GRIDCASE 3 machine. I burned an
additional rom with a nice small(as in less than 20k!) VT100 program I found
online. This gives new life to my drive-less gas plasma display GRiD and I'll
most certainly use the machine as a console/debugger for my old Sun 2&3
workstations.  Indeed a strange day when it's far more practical to burn some
eproms than find a 720k drive and some low density disks that actually work!!


and here is that evidence of Linux running:

Linux version 2.4.37.5 (root@diskless2) (gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release))
#14 Fri Aug 13 23:01:09 EDT 2010
BIOS-provided physical RAM map:
BIOS-88: 0000000000000000 - 000000000009f000 (usable)
BIOS-88: 0000000000100000 - 0000000000860000 (usable)
8MB LOWMEM available.
On node 0 totalpages: 2144
zone(0): 2144 pages.
zone(1): 0 pages.
zone(2): 0 pages.
DMI not present.
Kernel command line: rw root=/dev/nfs
ip=192.168.1.106:192.168.1.91:192.168.1.1:255.255.255.0:diskless2

Initializing CPU#0
Console: colour VGA+ 80x25
Calibrating delay loop... 1.93 BogoMIPS
Memory: 6320k/8576k available (1163k kernel code, 1868k reserved, 323k data, 68k
init, 0k highmem)
Checking if this processor honours the WP bit even in supervisor mode... No.
Dentry cache hash table entries: 2048 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
Inode cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
Mount cache hash table entries: 512 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
Buffer cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
Page-cache hash table entries: 4096 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
CPU:    After generic, caps: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
CPU:            Common caps: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
CPU: 386
Checking 'hlt' instruction... OK.
Checking for popad bug... Buggy.
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.4
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
Initializing RT netlink socket
Starting kswapd
Journalled Block Device driver loaded
pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured
Serial driver version 5.05c (2001-07-08) with no serial options enabled
ttyS00 at 0x03f8 (irq = 4) is a 16450
ttyS01 at 0x02f8 (irq = 3) is a 16450
Real Time Clock Driver v1.10f
Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 720k
DOR0=4
floppy interrupt on bizarre fdc 1
handler=00000000
FDC 0 is an 8272A
eth0: 3c5x9 at 0x300, 10baseT port, address  00 60 8c ed 85 d5, IRQ 10.
3c509.c:1.19 16Oct2002 becker@...
http://www.scyld.com/network/3c509.html
loop: loaded (max 8 devices)
Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 7.00beta4-2.4
ide: Assuming 50MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx
hda: probing with STATUS(0x50) instead of ALTSTATUS(0xff)
hda: Conner Peripherals 545MB - CP30544, ATA DISK drive
ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
hda: attached ide-disk driver.
hda: 1065456 sectors (546 MB) w/256KiB Cache, CHS=1057/16/63
Partition check:
hda: [PTBL] [528/32/63] hda1 < hda5 >
NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0
IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP, IGMP
IP: routing cache hash table of 512 buckets, 4Kbytes
TCP: Hash tables configured (established 512 bind 512)
eth0: Setting 3c5x9/3c5x9B half-duplex mode if_port: 0, sw_info: 3f20
eth0: Setting Rx mode to 1 addresses.
IP-Config: Complete:
      device=eth0, addr=192.168.1.106, mask=255.255.255.0, gw=192.168.1.1,
    host=diskless2, domain=, nis-domain=(none),
    bootserver=192.168.1.91, rootserver=192.168.1.91, rootpath=
NET4: Unix domain sockets 1.0/SMP for Linux NET4.0.
Looking up port of RPC 100003/2 on 192.168.1.91
Looking up port of RPC 100005/1 on 192.168.1.91
VFS: Mounted root (nfs filesystem).
Freeing unused kernel memory: 68k freed
nfs: server 192.168.1.91 not responding, still trying
nfs: server 192.168.1.91 OK
Adding Swap: 32760k swap-space (priority -1)

Sorry so long a post; certainly a lot of new stuff to report after doing nothing
with my GRiDs for several years!


-Kevin



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2134
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 10:45:58 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

Congrats!  Did you try a kernel 2.6 at all?  Now, that would be something 
else again!  As for the IDE drive and BIOS problem, not sure where you can 
find this these days, but AMI used to sell an 8-bit ISA card that they 
claimed would allow any computer to use any drive of any size.  It might be 
worth checking into.  I was close to buying that card, back when ISA was 
still around, but I never got around to it.  Couldn't justify the $50 
expenditure on a computersaur.  :-)  It's not a host adapter, btw; it's 
actually a BIOS "extension", I guess you could say.  I'm surprised that 
EZ-BIOS didn't work for you, though.  Usually, that'll everything you could 
desire.  Got Disk Manager around there anywhere?  It might work better for 
some odd reason.  Might not, but if you have it, might as well try it.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "geezer90awd" <chiopas@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 9:51 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!


> Hey All,
>
> It's been a long time since I posted here.. I was going thru my computer 
> collection and after digging up my GRiD 1535's, I got sidetracked into 
> playing with them again.  I think the last time I posted here (~3 years 
> ago), I had a single 1535 with 2mb ram, 1.4 meg floppy drive and the 
> backlit CGA lcd screen.  I tried making up some 1mb sipps by soldering 
> some pins onto the smallest height simms I could find, but it seemed to 
> only work in DOS and not when loading any floppy based linux 
> mini-distro's.
>
> After that, I got the expansion unit that mounts under the computer.  It 
> didn't really prove to be much use; it has one 16-bit "AT" card slot and 
> one "XT" 8-bit card.  It is my understanding that putting anything hi-tech 
> in there like a SCSI or IDE controller will not work because DMA access 
> isn't supported.  Perhaps some old/slow scsi cards may work, such as the 
> Media Vision Pro-Audio-16's scsi port (in it's I/O polling mode), but that 
> type of controller doesn't even have a BIOS overlay so you'd have to be 
> running linux already to use it.  I'll have to do some more experimenting 
> with this sometime and see if this limitation is really true or not.
>
> Let down by the expansion unit, I grabbed another 1535 that is equipped 
> differently than my first 1535. This one has an extremely primitive 
> looking IDE interface board (a few 7400 series gates and a GAL chip) and 
> sadly no hd, the lcd/vga screen and a 387 coprocessor.  The screen has 
> some funky fractal-looking screen leakage going on, but is still somewhat 
> visible. The backlite is really really dim, and of course the backup 
> battery was dead.  I had tried plugging a few different hard drives in, 
> but nothing really acted differently than having no hard drive on there. 
> I was able to make some modifications to an old DB-25 external 720k drive 
> for one of my GRiDcase 2's so that I could use a 1.44 meg drive with this 
> machine. After getting nowhere with various hard drives, I gave up on it 
> for a few years.
>
> Back to the present, I figured maybe, just maybe I could get linux going 
> with a network card&boot rom on it.  I rigged the expansion unit up with a 
> 3COM 3c509 and a boot rom I made up with the Rom-O-Matic on 
> www.rom-o-matic.net and attempted a boot.  Sure enough it worked! It 
> started running a Linux kernel, but froze at the point where it was 
> "Setting system time from internal clock".  This more than likely tied in 
> with the "system clock has stopped running" message I get during power-up, 
> so I figured it was finally time to chop out the dead 3.6 volt lithium 
> battery and solder a 3 volt 2032 cell in its place.  After doing that, I 
> booted up a W98 floppy and set the time. Another reboot and the Linux 
> kernel loaded up fully! I couldn't do much from the machine itself with 
> its dim screen, but I could log in remotely and see that linux was in fact 
> running as it should.  I later found out the capability of using the 
> external VGA connector wasn't limited to DOS (by typing the "config video 
> = external" command); the trick being that you need to hit CTRL-ALT-TAB at 
> the exact moment the network card's eprom program comes on, and no later, 
> you can get linux working on an external screen.
>
> Now that I had Linux going, I started plugging various old hard drives in. 
> Most of them either spun up and did nothing, others failed to spin up 
> (probably dead drives) and one made the disk activity LED flash, but Linux 
> would never see any hard drive. Then, I struck a winning combination - I 
> had a conner ~500mb drive connected and ran thru the config.exe program 
> (which i believe uses the 1520 config program) and set it up for a 720k 
> floppy (it seems to revert back to that no matter how many times I choose 
> 1.4M) and hard drive as Type-1. After that, I did a reboot and by some 
> miracle, the hard drive showed up during the hardware scan at kernel boot 
> time!  At the end of this [long] post is the bootup dmesg for anyone 
> interested.  The 386/16 running conservatively at 12.5MHz yields an 
> unamazing 1.93 bogomips!
>
> Anyway, I'm amazed to say that primitive looking board does appear to work 
> as a real IDE controller that Linux can deal with.  I tried going back to 
> DOS and running Western Digital EZ-BIOS to see if perhaps that could trick 
> the computer into seeing the hard drive at boot time, but sadly it does 
> not see the drive. I'd like to do some hardware/software hacking to see if 
> I can get the machine any closer to thinking it actually has a hard drive 
> installed at boot time.  I have a feeling if the bios running at bootup 
> believed it did have a hard drive, even with incorrect geometry, something 
> like ez-bios could get things working.  I can read/edit/burn eproms and am 
> willing to try out anything, but am not sure where to start. Also, I was 
> wondering, has anybody ever tried to throw a bios from an old 386 
> motherboard in just to see what happens?
>
> And then on the upgrade path, has anyone ever tried making a 1530/1535 any 
> faster? I yanked the 386/16 in my 2mb/cga 1535 and threw in an Intel 
> 386/25 and replaced the 25MHz oscillator with a socket.  Swapping various 
> crystals in had some interesting results:
> Osc. Norton si.exe rating
> 25 8.1
> 30 9.8
> 32 Didn't work
> 35.328 Didn't work
> 36 Didn't work
> 40 13.3
> 45 Didn't work, occasional POST beeps
> 50 Didn't work, occasional POST beeps
> So by the looks of it, I could run the 1535 with a 40MHz oscillator 
> (making the CPU run at 20MHz) and it seemed to work with the expansion bay 
> and run thru a thorough memory test (memtest86) without any problems. 
> It's too early to say if Linux will be happy enough to work with it; that 
> will only happen if I make up some more 1mb sipps to have the needed 8mb.
>
> And one more thing - I successfully ran the RomBuild program made a pair 
> of 27512 boot roms to load DOS on an 8086 based GRIDCASE 3 machine. I 
> burned an additional rom with a nice small(as in less than 20k!) VT100 
> program I found online. This gives new life to my drive-less gas plasma 
> display GRiD and I'll most certainly use the machine as a console/debugger 
> for my old Sun 2&3 workstations.  Indeed a strange day when it's far more 
> practical to burn some eproms than find a 720k drive and some low density 
> disks that actually work!!
>
>
> and here is that evidence of Linux running:
>
> Linux version 2.4.37.5 (root@diskless2) (gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 
> (release)) #14 Fri Aug 13 23:01:09 EDT 2010
> BIOS-provided physical RAM map:
> BIOS-88: 0000000000000000 - 000000000009f000 (usable)
> BIOS-88: 0000000000100000 - 0000000000860000 (usable)
> 8MB LOWMEM available.
> On node 0 totalpages: 2144
> zone(0): 2144 pages.
> zone(1): 0 pages.
> zone(2): 0 pages.
> DMI not present.
> Kernel command line: rw root=/dev/nfs 
> ip=192.168.1.106:192.168.1.91:192.168.1.1:255.255.255.0:diskless2
> Initializing CPU#0
> Console: colour VGA+ 80x25
> Calibrating delay loop... 1.93 BogoMIPS
> Memory: 6320k/8576k available (1163k kernel code, 1868k reserved, 323k 
> data, 68k init, 0k highmem)
> Checking if this processor honours the WP bit even in supervisor mode... 
> No.
> Dentry cache hash table entries: 2048 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
> Inode cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
> Mount cache hash table entries: 512 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
> Buffer cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
> Page-cache hash table entries: 4096 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
> CPU:     After generic, caps: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
> CPU:             Common caps: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
> CPU: 386
> Checking 'hlt' instruction... OK.
> Checking for popad bug... Buggy.
> POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
> Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.4
> Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
> Initializing RT netlink socket
> Starting kswapd
> Journalled Block Device driver loaded
> pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured
> Serial driver version 5.05c (2001-07-08) with no serial options enabled
> ttyS00 at 0x03f8 (irq = 4) is a 16450
> ttyS01 at 0x02f8 (irq = 3) is a 16450
> Real Time Clock Driver v1.10f
> Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 720k
> DOR0=4
> floppy interrupt on bizarre fdc 1
> handler=00000000
> FDC 0 is an 8272A
> eth0: 3c5x9 at 0x300, 10baseT port, address  00 60 8c ed 85 d5, IRQ 10.
> 3c509.c:1.19 16Oct2002 becker@...
> http://www.scyld.com/network/3c509.html
> loop: loaded (max 8 devices)
> Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 7.00beta4-2.4
> ide: Assuming 50MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with 
> idebus=xx
> hda: probing with STATUS(0x50) instead of ALTSTATUS(0xff)
> hda: Conner Peripherals 545MB - CP30544, ATA DISK drive
> ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
> hda: attached ide-disk driver.
> hda: 1065456 sectors (546 MB) w/256KiB Cache, CHS=1057/16/63
> Partition check:
> hda: [PTBL] [528/32/63] hda1 < hda5 >
> NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0
> IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP, IGMP
> IP: routing cache hash table of 512 buckets, 4Kbytes
> TCP: Hash tables configured (established 512 bind 512)
> eth0: Setting 3c5x9/3c5x9B half-duplex mode if_port: 0, sw_info: 3f20
> eth0: Setting Rx mode to 1 addresses.
> IP-Config: Complete:
>      device=eth0, addr=192.168.1.106, mask=255.255.255.0, gw=192.168.1.1,
>     host=diskless2, domain=, nis-domain=(none),
>     bootserver=192.168.1.91, rootserver=192.168.1.91, rootpath=
> NET4: Unix domain sockets 1.0/SMP for Linux NET4.0.
> Looking up port of RPC 100003/2 on 192.168.1.91
> Looking up port of RPC 100005/1 on 192.168.1.91
> VFS: Mounted root (nfs filesystem).
> Freeing unused kernel memory: 68k freed
> nfs: server 192.168.1.91 not responding, still trying
> nfs: server 192.168.1.91 OK
> Adding Swap: 32760k swap-space (priority -1)
>
> Sorry so long a post; certainly a lot of new stuff to report after doing 
> nothing with my GRiDs for several years!
>
> -Kevin
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2135
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 01:47:13 -0000
From: "geezer90awd"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

Hi Tom,

I haven't ever tried a 2.6 kernel on anything with a 386 or 486 in it yet. That would be interesting to try and compile up a kernel with the GRiD, and see how many days it takes :)

That AMI card sounds like it was a bit pricey if it was just an eprom on a card. It would be neat to see if it could talk some hard-drive sense into a GRiD with an expansion unit though.

I did see disk manager in one of my boxes of disks a few weeks ago. If I turn it up again I'll give it a whirl.

-Kevin

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>
> Congrats!  Did you try a kernel 2.6 at all?  Now, that would be something
> else again!  As for the IDE drive and BIOS problem, not sure where you can
> find this these days, but AMI used to sell an 8-bit ISA card that they
> claimed would allow any computer to use any drive of any size.  It might be
> worth checking into.  I was close to buying that card, back when ISA was
> still around, but I never got around to it.  Couldn't justify the $50
> expenditure on a computersaur.  :-)  It's not a host adapter, btw; it's
> actually a BIOS "extension", I guess you could say.  I'm surprised that
> EZ-BIOS didn't work for you, though.  Usually, that'll everything you could
> desire.  Got Disk Manager around there anywhere?  It might work better for
> some odd reason.  Might not, but if you have it, might as well try it.
>
> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."

Yahoo! Message number: 2136
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 12:14:34 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

Hi, Kevin.

"Weeks" is right!  :-)  My current system is based on the AMD Opteron 146, 
but the last couple of evenings, I've been reintroduced to the concept of 
"slow".  I bought SpinRite V6 the other night, and even though it's faster 
than greased lightning on crack, its operations take time, even on this 
machine that can do either (or both!) 32- and 64-bit arithmetic.  Which 
reminds me...I should prolly dig out the ol' GRiD 1520 and run SpinRite on 
its 20MB drive.  :-)  It would be interesting to see how many errors show 
up, as old as she is.  I might do that with the old PS/2 Model 50 I also 
have in the closet.

Anyway, come to think of it, I'm not even sure if kernel 2.6 will run on a 
'386.  Maybe it will if it has a '387 for the heavy lifting.  I know I 
couldn't get it to do anything with a 486SX a few years ago.  Just said, "No 
math co-processor found.  Giving up."

Yeah, the AMI board would be pricy if you could find it at that price. 
Maybe somebody has it for $20 or less somewhere.  Not sure how many chips 
it's got on it, but might just *be* a PROM on a board.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "geezer90awd" <chiopas@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 9:47 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!


> Hi Tom,
>
> I haven't ever tried a 2.6 kernel on anything with a 386 or 486 in it yet. 
> That would be interesting to try and compile up a kernel with the GRiD, 
> and see how many days it takes :)
>
> That AMI card sounds like it was a bit pricey if it was just an eprom on a 
> card. It would be neat to see if it could talk some hard-drive sense into 
> a GRiD with an expansion unit though.
>
> I did see disk manager in one of my boxes of disks a few weeks ago. If I 
> turn it up again I'll give it a whirl.
>
> -Kevin
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>>
>> Congrats!  Did you try a kernel 2.6 at all?  Now, that would be something
>> else again!  As for the IDE drive and BIOS problem, not sure where you 
>> can
>> find this these days, but AMI used to sell an 8-bit ISA card that they
>> claimed would allow any computer to use any drive of any size.  It might 
>> be
>> worth checking into.  I was close to buying that card, back when ISA was
>> still around, but I never got around to it.  Couldn't justify the $50
>> expenditure on a computersaur.  :-)  It's not a host adapter, btw; it's
>> actually a BIOS "extension", I guess you could say.  I'm surprised that
>> EZ-BIOS didn't work for you, though.  Usually, that'll everything you 
>> could
>> desire.  Got Disk Manager around there anywhere?  It might work better 
>> for
>> some odd reason.  Might not, but if you have it, might as well try it.
>>
>> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2137
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:48:56 -0000
From: "geezer90awd"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

The 2.4 kernels had an option for math emulation if you had no coprocessor. That would solve the 386 / 486 sx/slc problem, but in the case of the 386 modern versions of linux will still bomb, I believe, due to glibc being compiled for 486 upward.

They still make Spinrite?!!? I remember using that program waaay back with 10, 20 and 40mb half-height MFM seagate drives.  It always made a crazy noise that sounded like a high-pitched jackhammer while it cranked away for a good overnight revival.

I am really amazed the 10mb RLL drive in my GRiDcase2 has survived all these years with no additional bad sectors. The only bummer with it is if you don't use it for a while, the platter gets stuck in place.  You have to take apart the whole computer, and then the drive itself just to give it a nudge.  It almost tempts me to put the computer on an xmas tree timer so it gets exercised on a regular basis.

Now on the other hand, I revived a 20mb hd in an XT a year ago, and when I went to boot it up a few weeks ago, I got the dreaded non-system disk error.  I guess the seagate in there does not compare to the drive in my GRiD.

-Kevin

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Kevin.
>
> "Weeks" is right!  :-)  My current system is based on the AMD Opteron 146,
> but the last couple of evenings, I've been reintroduced to the concept of
> "slow".  I bought SpinRite V6 the other night, and even though it's faster
> than greased lightning on crack, its operations take time, even on this
> machine that can do either (or both!) 32- and 64-bit arithmetic.  Which
> reminds me...I should prolly dig out the ol' GRiD 1520 and run SpinRite on
> its 20MB drive.  :-)  It would be interesting to see how many errors show
> up, as old as she is.  I might do that with the old PS/2 Model 50 I also
> have in the closet.
>
> Anyway, come to think of it, I'm not even sure if kernel 2.6 will run on a
> '386.  Maybe it will if it has a '387 for the heavy lifting.  I know I
> couldn't get it to do anything with a 486SX a few years ago.  Just said, "No
> math co-processor found.  Giving up."
>
> Yeah, the AMI board would be pricy if you could find it at that price.
> Maybe somebody has it for $20 or less somewhere.  Not sure how many chips
> it's got on it, but might just *be* a PROM on a board.
>
> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2138
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 11:08:40 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

I don't know that much about Linux, yet; maybe never will, since I'm not 
that interested in programming at the time.  I guess I've become an 
appliance operator in my old age.  Electronics still interests me, but I 
don't have the interest in programming that I once had.  OTOH, I may get the 
bug back if I ever get into C++ or assembly language with decent editors 
and/or assemblers.  I remember playing with something called LADS, back in 
the C-64/128 days.  LADS was a label-based assembler that reminded me 
strongly of the System 360/370 assebler classes I took at U of M-Flint. 
That was label based, and I found it a lot easier to work with than just a 
bunch of instructions and numbers to shift around between accumulator and 
registers.

Yep.  Steve Gibson says he's been making Spinrite for 16 years.  Or, that's 
what he said in the video on grc.com.  It's $89, which seems like a lot, 
considering the price of drives these days, but it depends on how precious 
your data is to you.  He does all of his coding in assembly language, btw. 
The whole download file is 170K, and even includes enough of FreeDOS to make 
a bootable CD image, boot floppy, or install on a bootable memory stick or 
card for booting from USB.  Anyway, that program is what pays the bills, but 
he's got lots of freebies on his site.  He and Leo LaPorte do a weekly 
podcast called SecurityNow!, and you can get that at grc.com, also, both in 
16-bit and 64-bit versions.  But, yes, it is quite a program.  I used a 
<ahem!> borrowed copy of Spinrite II back in the '90s, and fell in love with 
it then.  Couldn't afford to buy my own copy, but vowed that someday, I 
would.  And, btw, it now supports all Linux filesystems, as well as DOS, 
OS/2, Windows, Mac, and just about anything else that spins.  :-)

Yes, the perennial "stiction" problem, especially with Seagate drives of the 
ST-512 interface type.  It was worst with the ST-251 40MB drives, but it 
does exist in others.  I never had to take anything apart to break the heads 
loose from the platters, but a little on/off/on/off of the power would 
"rock" it loose.  I guess the problem was the oil that Seagate used on its 
platters to lubricate the landing zone where the heads parked.  It would get 
gummy over time.  Too bad they didn't put a thumbwheel into the side of the 
drive to help give it a little spin, like the old Remington electric razors. 
:-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "geezer90awd" <chiopas@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 9:48 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!


> The 2.4 kernels had an option for math emulation if you had no 
> coprocessor. That would solve the 386 / 486 sx/slc problem, but in the 
> case of the 386 modern versions of linux will still bomb, I believe, due 
> to glibc being compiled for 486 upward.
>
> They still make Spinrite?!!? I remember using that program waaay back with 
> 10, 20 and 40mb half-height MFM seagate drives.  It always made a crazy 
> noise that sounded like a high-pitched jackhammer while it cranked away 
> for a good overnight revival.
>
> I am really amazed the 10mb RLL drive in my GRiDcase2 has survived all 
> these years with no additional bad sectors. The only bummer with it is if 
> you don't use it for a while, the platter gets stuck in place.  You have 
> to take apart the whole computer, and then the drive itself just to give 
> it a nudge.  It almost tempts me to put the computer on an xmas tree timer 
> so it gets exercised on a regular basis.
>
> Now on the other hand, I revived a 20mb hd in an XT a year ago, and when I 
> went to boot it up a few weeks ago, I got the dreaded non-system disk 
> error.  I guess the seagate in there does not compare to the drive in my 
> GRiD.
>
> -Kevin
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Kevin.
>>
>> "Weeks" is right!  :-)  My current system is based on the AMD Opteron 
>> 146,
>> but the last couple of evenings, I've been reintroduced to the concept of
>> "slow".  I bought SpinRite V6 the other night, and even though it's 
>> faster
>> than greased lightning on crack, its operations take time, even on this
>> machine that can do either (or both!) 32- and 64-bit arithmetic.  Which
>> reminds me...I should prolly dig out the ol' GRiD 1520 and run SpinRite 
>> on
>> its 20MB drive.  :-)  It would be interesting to see how many errors show
>> up, as old as she is.  I might do that with the old PS/2 Model 50 I also
>> have in the closet.
>>
>> Anyway, come to think of it, I'm not even sure if kernel 2.6 will run on 
>> a
>> '386.  Maybe it will if it has a '387 for the heavy lifting.  I know I
>> couldn't get it to do anything with a 486SX a few years ago.  Just said, 
>> "No
>> math co-processor found.  Giving up."
>>
>> Yeah, the AMI board would be pricy if you could find it at that price.
>> Maybe somebody has it for $20 or less somewhere.  Not sure how many chips
>> it's got on it, but might just *be* a PROM on a board.
>>
>> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2139
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 07:11:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

Hello there, Kevin.
I finally have time to to respond.
First off, contratulations on resurrecting your 1535!  Good to see that it's
still alive and kicking.  The 1535 isn't my specialty.  I'm more in to the '286
based 1520.
I will have to cut and paste my responses.

>I tried making up some 1mb sipps by soldering some pins onto the smallest height
>simms I could find, but it seemed to only work in DOS and not when loading any
>floppy based linux mini-distro's.
>

I tried this but it's really hard to maintain the DIP spacing when soldering by
hand.  I also ran in to a problem when I tried to place the modified SIMM/SIPP
in the socket.  It was too tall and it interfered with the display hinge and the
cover.  So, I gave up on that idea.
Odd that it only worked in DOS.  I wonder if the Linux distro set up some weird
timing values that the SIMM couldn't handle.  That stuff is usually hardware
driven, not software driven so that shouldn't be it.  That is odd, though.

>The screen has some funky fractal-looking screen leakage going on, but is still
>somewhat visible.

I had a 1550SX do that.  The weird thing was, over time, it went back to a
normal display.

> I rigged the expansion unit up with a 3COM 3c509 and a boot rom I made up with
>the Rom-O-Matic on www.rom-o-matic.net and attempted a boot.

Cool site!  Thanks for mentioning it.  I'm going to have to spend more time
there and play.

I'm a little confused here: 
>I later found out the capability of using the external VGA connector wasn't
>limited to DOS (by typing the "config video = external" command); the trick
>being that you need to hit CTRL-ALT-TAB at the exact moment the network card's
>eprom program comes on, and no later, you can get linux working on an external
>screen. 
>

Was the CTRL-ALT-TAB function something provied by the 1535's BIOS, the
expansion tray, or the network card?  AFAIK, the Grid BIOS doesn't support
that.  I could be wrong though, since I don't have a 1535.

In summarzing your hard drive attempts, am I correct in reading that there were
times that Linux saw the hard drive, but DOS did not?  I think we have all
assumed that the hard drive restriction was implemented in the BIOS code.  I
don't think any of us tried using a different OS to see the hard drive.

>I can read/edit/burn eproms and am willing to try out anything, but am not sure
>where to start.
>

I'm not sure where or how the actual comparison takes place.  There are some
clues because there is a text string like "CP344CP3044CP322" in the BIOS code. 
The assumption was, at boot, the hard drive was asked, "What is your model
number?"
If it's response didn't match was in the code, then the BIOS would not allow the
hard drive to boot.
I found out later that changing the text wasn't enough.  The drive parameters
(cylinders/heads/sectors/LZ/pre-comp,etc) had to be in a separate table.

>Also, I was wondering, has anybody ever tried to throw a bios from an old 386
>motherboard in just to see what happens?
>

I have not.  I don't know if anyone else on the email list has.  I also have not
tried to make the 1520 (or 1535) faster.

More questions:
What option on Rombuild did you use to make 8088 compatable EPROMs?  Did you
modify the Grid BIOS EPROMS at all?  And if you did, how did you deal with the
checksum issue?

Again Kevin, I want to say that I'm really impressed with your work and it's
motivated me to get back on this project.

Thanks,
-Shawn




----- Original Message ----
From: geezer90awd <chiopas@hotmail.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, October 26, 2010 9:51:36 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

Hey All,

It's been a long time since I posted here.. I was going thru my computer
collection and after digging up my GRiD 1535's, I got sidetracked into playing
with them again.  I think the last time I posted here (~3 years ago), I had a
single 1535 with 2mb ram, 1.4 meg floppy drive and the backlit CGA lcd screen. 
I tried making up some 1mb sipps by soldering some pins onto the smallest height
simms I could find, but it seemed to only work in DOS and not when loading any
floppy based linux mini-distro's.


After that, I got the expansion unit that mounts under the computer.  It didn't
really prove to be much use; it has one 16-bit "AT" card slot and one "XT" 8-bit
card.  It is my understanding that putting anything hi-tech in there like a SCSI
or IDE controller will not work because DMA access isn't supported.  Perhaps
some old/slow scsi cards may work, such as the Media Vision Pro-Audio-16's scsi
port (in it's I/O polling mode), but that type of controller doesn't even have a
BIOS overlay so you'd have to be running linux already to use it.  I'll have to
do some more experimenting with this sometime and see if this limitation is
really true or not.


Let down by the expansion unit, I grabbed another 1535 that is equipped
differently than my first 1535. This one has an extremely primitive looking IDE
interface board (a few 7400 series gates and a GAL chip) and sadly no hd, the
lcd/vga screen and a 387 coprocessor.  The screen has some funky fractal-looking
screen leakage going on, but is still somewhat visible. The backlite is really
really dim, and of course the backup battery was dead.  I had tried plugging a
few different hard drives in, but nothing really acted differently than having
no hard drive on there.  I was able to make some modifications to an old DB-25
external 720k drive for one of my GRiDcase 2's so that I could use a 1.44 meg
drive with this machine. After getting nowhere with various hard drives, I gave
up on it for a few years.


Back to the present, I figured maybe, just maybe I could get linux going with a
network card&boot rom on it.  I rigged the expansion unit up with a 3COM 3c509
and a boot rom I made up with the Rom-O-Matic on www.rom-o-matic.net and
attempted a boot.  Sure enough it worked! It started running a Linux kernel, but
froze at the point where it was "Setting system time from internal clock".  This
more than likely tied in with the "system clock has stopped running" message I
get during power-up, so I figured it was finally time to chop out the dead 3.6
volt lithium battery and solder a 3 volt 2032 cell in its place.  After doing
that, I booted up a W98 floppy and set the time. Another reboot and the Linux
kernel loaded up fully! I couldn't do much from the machine itself with its dim
screen, but I could log in remotely and see that linux was in fact running as it
should.  I later found out the capability of using the external VGA connector
wasn't limited to DOS (by typing the "config video = external" command); the
trick being that you need to hit CTRL-ALT-TAB at the exact moment the network
card's eprom program comes on, and no later, you can get linux working on an
external screen. 


Now that I had Linux going, I started plugging various old hard drives in.  Most
of them either spun up and did nothing, others failed to spin up (probably dead
drives) and one made the disk activity LED flash, but Linux would never see any
hard drive. Then, I struck a winning combination - I had a conner ~500mb drive
connected and ran thru the config.exe program (which i believe uses the 1520
config program) and set it up for a 720k floppy (it seems to revert back to that
no matter how many times I choose 1.4M) and hard drive as Type-1. After that, I
did a reboot and by some miracle, the hard drive showed up during the hardware
scan at kernel boot time!  At the end of this [long] post is the bootup dmesg
for anyone interested.  The 386/16 running conservatively at 12.5MHz yields an
unamazing 1.93 bogomips!


Anyway, I'm amazed to say that primitive looking board does appear to work as a
real IDE controller that Linux can deal with.  I tried going back to DOS and
running Western Digital EZ-BIOS to see if perhaps that could trick the computer
into seeing the hard drive at boot time, but sadly it does not see the drive.
I'd like to do some hardware/software hacking to see if I can get the machine
any closer to thinking it actually has a hard drive installed at boot time.  I
have a feeling if the bios running at bootup believed it did have a hard drive,
even with incorrect geometry, something like ez-bios could get things working. 
I can read/edit/burn eproms and am willing to try out anything, but am not sure
where to start. Also, I was wondering, has anybody ever tried to throw a bios
from an old 386 motherboard in just to see what happens?


And then on the upgrade path, has anyone ever tried making a 1530/1535 any
faster? I yanked the 386/16 in my 2mb/cga 1535 and threw in an Intel 386/25 and
replaced the 25MHz oscillator with a socket.  Swapping various crystals in had
some interesting results:
Osc.    Norton si.exe rating
25    8.1
30    9.8
32    Didn't work
35.328    Didn't work
36    Didn't work
40    13.3
45    Didn't work, occasional POST beeps
50    Didn't work, occasional POST beeps
So by the looks of it, I could run the 1535 with a 40MHz oscillator (making the
CPU run at 20MHz) and it seemed to work with the expansion bay and run thru a
thorough memory test (memtest86) without any problems.  It's too early to say if
Linux will be happy enough to work with it; that will only happen if I make up
some more 1mb sipps to have the needed 8mb.


And one more thing - I successfully ran the RomBuild program made a pair of
27512 boot roms to load DOS on an 8086 based GRIDCASE 3 machine. I burned an
additional rom with a nice small(as in less than 20k!) VT100 program I found
online. This gives new life to my drive-less gas plasma display GRiD and I'll
most certainly use the machine as a console/debugger for my old Sun 2&3
workstations.  Indeed a strange day when it's far more practical to burn some
eproms than find a 720k drive and some low density disks that actually work!!


and here is that evidence of Linux running: 

Linux version 2.4.37.5 (root@diskless2) (gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release))
#14 Fri Aug 13 23:01:09 EDT 2010
BIOS-provided physical RAM map:
BIOS-88: 0000000000000000 - 000000000009f000 (usable)
BIOS-88: 0000000000100000 - 0000000000860000 (usable)
8MB LOWMEM available.
On node 0 totalpages: 2144
zone(0): 2144 pages.
zone(1): 0 pages.
zone(2): 0 pages.
DMI not present.
Kernel command line: rw root=/dev/nfs
ip=192.168.1.106:192.168.1.91:192.168.1.1:255.255.255.0:diskless2

Initializing CPU#0
Console: colour VGA+ 80x25
Calibrating delay loop... 1.93 BogoMIPS
Memory: 6320k/8576k available (1163k kernel code, 1868k reserved, 323k data, 68k
init, 0k highmem)
Checking if this processor honours the WP bit even in supervisor mode... No.
Dentry cache hash table entries: 2048 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
Inode cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
Mount cache hash table entries: 512 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
Buffer cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
Page-cache hash table entries: 4096 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
CPU:    After generic, caps: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
CPU:            Common caps: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
CPU: 386
Checking 'hlt' instruction... OK.
Checking for popad bug... Buggy.
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.4
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
Initializing RT netlink socket
Starting kswapd
Journalled Block Device driver loaded
pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured
Serial driver version 5.05c (2001-07-08) with no serial options enabled
ttyS00 at 0x03f8 (irq = 4) is a 16450
ttyS01 at 0x02f8 (irq = 3) is a 16450
Real Time Clock Driver v1.10f
Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 720k
DOR0=4
floppy interrupt on bizarre fdc 1
handler=00000000
FDC 0 is an 8272A
eth0: 3c5x9 at 0x300, 10baseT port, address  00 60 8c ed 85 d5, IRQ 10.
3c509.c:1.19 16Oct2002 becker@...
http://www.scyld.com/network/3c509.html
loop: loaded (max 8 devices)
Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 7.00beta4-2.4
ide: Assuming 50MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx
hda: probing with STATUS(0x50) instead of ALTSTATUS(0xff)
hda: Conner Peripherals 545MB - CP30544, ATA DISK drive
ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
hda: attached ide-disk driver.
hda: 1065456 sectors (546 MB) w/256KiB Cache, CHS=1057/16/63
Partition check:
hda: [PTBL] [528/32/63] hda1 < hda5 >
NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0
IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP, IGMP
IP: routing cache hash table of 512 buckets, 4Kbytes
TCP: Hash tables configured (established 512 bind 512)
eth0: Setting 3c5x9/3c5x9B half-duplex mode if_port: 0, sw_info: 3f20
eth0: Setting Rx mode to 1 addresses.
IP-Config: Complete:
      device=eth0, addr=192.168.1.106, mask=255.255.255.0, gw=192.168.1.1,
    host=diskless2, domain=, nis-domain=(none),
    bootserver=192.168.1.91, rootserver=192.168.1.91, rootpath=
NET4: Unix domain sockets 1.0/SMP for Linux NET4.0.
Looking up port of RPC 100003/2 on 192.168.1.91
Looking up port of RPC 100005/1 on 192.168.1.91
VFS: Mounted root (nfs filesystem).
Freeing unused kernel memory: 68k freed
nfs: server 192.168.1.91 not responding, still trying
nfs: server 192.168.1.91 OK
Adding Swap: 32760k swap-space (priority -1)

Sorry so long a post; certainly a lot of new stuff to report after doing nothing
with my GRiDs for several years!


-Kevin



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2140
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 07:27:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Spinrite

Yeah, I used Spinrite as well.  I used it to help recover a friends hard drive
this year.  It was a Seagate 230 GB drive. 

There is only so much SR can do.  My friend's drive had some sort of hardware
failure internal to the drive.  It was DSP chip, or a head or something else
very fundamental to the drive itself.  I located a PC at work, put it in an
out-of-the-way corner, and let SR run for about 5 months.  Yes, 5 months.
It never completed. I restarted it a few times.  Brought the dynastat setting
down to 10.  Ran it in MS-DOS.  It would get to 16.85% pretty quickly but then
it would slow down at that point and start churning through the bits.   
After 5 or 6 months with no end in site, I copied off what I could.  He had a
recent backup so he didn't loose everything.  I wasn't able to recover much more
than what he had already backed up.  I did learn a few things, so it wasn't a
total waste of time.
-Shawn


----- Original Message ----
From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, October 29, 2010 11:08:40 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

I don't know that much about Linux, yet; maybe never will, since I'm not
that interested in programming at the time.  I guess I've become an
appliance operator in my old age.  Electronics still interests me, but I
don't have the interest in programming that I once had.  OTOH, I may get the
bug back if I ever get into C++ or assembly language with decent editors
and/or assemblers.  I remember playing with something called LADS, back in 
the C-64/128 days.  LADS was a label-based assembler that reminded me
strongly of the System 360/370 assebler classes I took at U of M-Flint.
That was label based, and I found it a lot easier to work with than just a
bunch of instructions and numbers to shift around between accumulator and
registers.

Yep.  Steve Gibson says he's been making Spinrite for 16 years.  Or, that's
what he said in the video on grc.com.  It's $89, which seems like a lot,
considering the price of drives these days, but it depends on how precious
your data is to you.  He does all of his coding in assembly language, btw.
The whole download file is 170K, and even includes enough of FreeDOS to make
a bootable CD image, boot floppy, or install on a bootable memory stick or
card for booting from USB.  Anyway, that program is what pays the bills, but
he's got lots of freebies on his site.  He and Leo LaPorte do a weekly
podcast called SecurityNow!, and you can get that at grc.com, also, both in
16-bit and 64-bit versions.  But, yes, it is quite a program.  I used a
<ahem!> borrowed copy of Spinrite II back in the '90s, and fell in love with
it then.  Couldn't afford to buy my own copy, but vowed that someday, I
would.  And, btw, it now supports all Linux filesystems, as well as DOS,
OS/2, Windows, Mac, and just about anything else that spins.  :-)

Yes, the perennial "stiction" problem, especially with Seagate drives of the
ST-512 interface type.  It was worst with the ST-251 40MB drives, but it
does exist in others.  I never had to take anything apart to break the heads
loose from the platters, but a little on/off/on/off of the power would
"rock" it loose.  I guess the problem was the oil that Seagate used on its
platters to lubricate the landing zone where the heads parked.  It would get
gummy over time.  Too bad they didn't put a thumbwheel into the side of the
drive to help give it a little spin, like the old Remington electric razors.
:-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: "geezer90awd" <chiopas@hotmail.com>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 9:48 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!


> The 2.4 kernels had an option for math emulation if you had no
> coprocessor. That would solve the 386 / 486 sx/slc problem, but in the
> case of the 386 modern versions of linux will still bomb, I believe, due
> to glibc being compiled for 486 upward.
>
> They still make Spinrite?!!? I remember using that program waaay back with
> 10, 20 and 40mb half-height MFM seagate drives.  It always made a crazy
> noise that sounded like a high-pitched jackhammer while it cranked away
> for a good overnight revival.
>
> I am really amazed the 10mb RLL drive in my GRiDcase2 has survived all
> these years with no additional bad sectors. The only bummer with it is if
> you don't use it for a while, the platter gets stuck in place.  You have
> to take apart the whole computer, and then the drive itself just to give
> it a nudge.  It almost tempts me to put the computer on an xmas tree timer
> so it gets exercised on a regular basis.
>
> Now on the other hand, I revived a 20mb hd in an XT a year ago, and when I
> went to boot it up a few weeks ago, I got the dreaded non-system disk
> error.  I guess the seagate in there does not compare to the drive in my
> GRiD.
>
> -Kevin
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Kevin.
>>
>> "Weeks" is right!  :-)  My current system is based on the AMD Opteron
>> 146,
>> but the last couple of evenings, I've been reintroduced to the concept of
>> "slow".  I bought SpinRite V6 the other night, and even though it's
>> faster
>> than greased lightning on crack, its operations take time, even on this
>> machine that can do either (or both!) 32- and 64-bit arithmetic.  Which
>> reminds me...I should prolly dig out the ol' GRiD 1520 and run SpinRite
>> on
>> its 20MB drive.  :-)  It would be interesting to see how many errors show
>> up, as old as she is.  I might do that with the old PS/2 Model 50 I also
>> have in the closet.
>>
>> Anyway, come to think of it, I'm not even sure if kernel 2.6 will run on
>> a
>> '386.  Maybe it will if it has a '387 for the heavy lifting.  I know I
>> couldn't get it to do anything with a 486SX a few years ago.  Just said,
>> "No
>> math co-processor found.  Giving up."
>>
>> Yeah, the AMI board would be pricy if you could find it at that price.
>> Maybe somebody has it for $20 or less somewhere.  Not sure how many chips
>> it's got on it, but might just *be* a PROM on a board.
>>
>> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2141
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 11:36:55 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Spinrite

SR can't do miracles, but close.  :-)  I'm sorry your friend's hard drive 
was toast, but I'm glad he had a recent backup.  If I could afford a 
subscription to Carbonite or some other off-site backup solution, I'd grab 
it.  But, I do have quite a bit of on-site redundancy.  As long as there's 
not a fire or flood, an invasion of insulation-eating cockroaches, or a 
massive EMP, I should be okay.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shawnerz" <shawnerz@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 10:27 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Spinrite


Yeah, I used Spinrite as well. I used it to help recover a friends hard 
drive
this year. It was a Seagate 230 GB drive.

There is only so much SR can do. My friend's drive had some sort of hardware
failure internal to the drive. It was DSP chip, or a head or something else
very fundamental to the drive itself. I located a PC at work, put it in an
out-of-the-way corner, and let SR run for about 5 months. Yes, 5 months.
It never completed. I restarted it a few times. Brought the dynastat setting
down to 10. Ran it in MS-DOS. It would get to 16.85% pretty quickly but then
it would slow down at that point and start churning through the bits.
After 5 or 6 months with no end in site, I copied off what I could. He had a
recent backup so he didn't loose everything. I wasn't able to recover much 
more
than what he had already backed up. I did learn a few things, so it wasn't a
total waste of time.
-Shawn


----- Original Message ----
From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, October 29, 2010 11:08:40 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

I don't know that much about Linux, yet; maybe never will, since I'm not
that interested in programming at the time. I guess I've become an
appliance operator in my old age. Electronics still interests me, but I
don't have the interest in programming that I once had. OTOH, I may get the
bug back if I ever get into C++ or assembly language with decent editors
and/or assemblers. I remember playing with something called LADS, back in
the C-64/128 days. LADS was a label-based assembler that reminded me
strongly of the System 360/370 assebler classes I took at U of M-Flint.
That was label based, and I found it a lot easier to work with than just a
bunch of instructions and numbers to shift around between accumulator and
registers.

Yep. Steve Gibson says he's been making Spinrite for 16 years. Or, that's
what he said in the video on grc.com. It's $89, which seems like a lot,
considering the price of drives these days, but it depends on how precious
your data is to you. He does all of his coding in assembly language, btw.
The whole download file is 170K, and even includes enough of FreeDOS to make
a bootable CD image, boot floppy, or install on a bootable memory stick or
card for booting from USB. Anyway, that program is what pays the bills, but
he's got lots of freebies on his site. He and Leo LaPorte do a weekly
podcast called SecurityNow!, and you can get that at grc.com, also, both in
16-bit and 64-bit versions. But, yes, it is quite a program. I used a
<ahem!> borrowed copy of Spinrite II back in the '90s, and fell in love with
it then. Couldn't afford to buy my own copy, but vowed that someday, I
would. And, btw, it now supports all Linux filesystems, as well as DOS,
OS/2, Windows, Mac, and just about anything else that spins. :-)

Yes, the perennial "stiction" problem, especially with Seagate drives of the
ST-512 interface type. It was worst with the ST-251 40MB drives, but it
does exist in others. I never had to take anything apart to break the heads
loose from the platters, but a little on/off/on/off of the power would
"rock" it loose. I guess the problem was the oil that Seagate used on its
platters to lubricate the landing zone where the heads parked. It would get
gummy over time. Too bad they didn't put a thumbwheel into the side of the
drive to help give it a little spin, like the old Remington electric razors.
:-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "geezer90awd" <chiopas@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 9:48 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!


> The 2.4 kernels had an option for math emulation if you had no
> coprocessor. That would solve the 386 / 486 sx/slc problem, but in the
> case of the 386 modern versions of linux will still bomb, I believe, due
> to glibc being compiled for 486 upward.
>
> They still make Spinrite?!!? I remember using that program waaay back with
> 10, 20 and 40mb half-height MFM seagate drives. It always made a crazy
> noise that sounded like a high-pitched jackhammer while it cranked away
> for a good overnight revival.
>
> I am really amazed the 10mb RLL drive in my GRiDcase2 has survived all
> these years with no additional bad sectors. The only bummer with it is if
> you don't use it for a while, the platter gets stuck in place. You have
> to take apart the whole computer, and then the drive itself just to give
> it a nudge. It almost tempts me to put the computer on an xmas tree timer
> so it gets exercised on a regular basis.
>
> Now on the other hand, I revived a 20mb hd in an XT a year ago, and when I
> went to boot it up a few weeks ago, I got the dreaded non-system disk
> error. I guess the seagate in there does not compare to the drive in my
> GRiD.
>
> -Kevin
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Kevin.
>>
>> "Weeks" is right! :-) My current system is based on the AMD Opteron
>> 146,
>> but the last couple of evenings, I've been reintroduced to the concept of
>> "slow". I bought SpinRite V6 the other night, and even though it's
>> faster
>> than greased lightning on crack, its operations take time, even on this
>> machine that can do either (or both!) 32- and 64-bit arithmetic. Which
>> reminds me...I should prolly dig out the ol' GRiD 1520 and run SpinRite
>> on
>> its 20MB drive. :-) It would be interesting to see how many errors show
>> up, as old as she is. I might do that with the old PS/2 Model 50 I also
>> have in the closet.
>>
>> Anyway, come to think of it, I'm not even sure if kernel 2.6 will run on
>> a
>> '386. Maybe it will if it has a '387 for the heavy lifting. I know I
>> couldn't get it to do anything with a 486SX a few years ago. Just said,
>> "No
>> math co-processor found. Giving up."
>>
>> Yeah, the AMI board would be pricy if you could find it at that price.
>> Maybe somebody has it for $20 or less somewhere. Not sure how many chips
>> it's got on it, but might just *be* a PROM on a board.
>>
>> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>> "She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2142
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2010 23:01:09 -0000
From: "geezer90awd"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
> your data is to you.  He does all of his coding in assembly language, btw.
> The whole download file is 170K, and even includes enough of FreeDOS to make
Wow! That's pretty hardcore!


> gummy over time.  Too bad they didn't put a thumbwheel into the side of the
> drive to help give it a little spin, like the old Remington electric razors.
> :-)
I wish! That would save me the trouble of having to take the GRiD apart and then the hard drive every time I forget about it for a few weeks. So far the drive is staying "free" with an activation every couple days. Maybe its time to hack an xmas tree timer to run it once a week.

Yahoo! Message number: 2143
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 01:54:33 -0000
From: "geezer90awd"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

Hi Shawn,

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>

> I tried this but it's really hard to maintain the DIP spacing when soldering by
> hand.  I also ran in to a problem when I tried to place the modified SIMM/SIPP
> in the socket.  It was too tall and it interfered with the display hinge and the

I forget exactly how I made them, but the pins were definitely in some kind of socket or empty PCB during the soldering stage.
Height is certainly a major issue.  I pilfered my Sun 3/60's (with rows of 1mb simms) and found a few 3-chip simms with the smallest possible boards, thoroughly ram-tested them and then soldered them up.


> Odd that it only worked in DOS.  I wonder if the Linux distro set up some weird
> timing values that the SIMM couldn't handle.  That stuff is usually hardware
> driven, not software driven so that shouldn't be it.  That is odd, though.

I'd like to try that other 1535 again, but I don't want to destroy the homemade sipps by removing/reinstalling them unnecessarily.

-Kevin



> I had a 1550SX do that.  The weird thing was, over time, it went back to a
> normal display.

The fractal-splotch isn't too big of a deal, but that dimmed out backlight is weird. I wish I could see some pictures of what the vga lcd display looked like when new.  The CGA screen is silver/black like a wristwatch, but the vga seems to be more like yellowish-white on black



> I'm a little confused here: 
> Was the CTRL-ALT-TAB function something provied by the 1535's BIOS, the
> expansion tray, or the network card?  AFAIK, the Grid BIOS doesn't support
> that.  I could be wrong though, since I don't have a 1535.

The ctrl-alt-tab thing is straight out of the manual that came with the 1535. It seems to work from the moment DOS is running, but not before that.  It is also apparently temporarily available when the network card's ROM starts running, but not when Linux starts loading.  Perhaps its a software interrupt that DOS leaves intact but Linux removes.

> In summarzing your hard drive attempts, am I correct in reading that there were
> times that Linux saw the hard drive, but DOS did not?  I think we have all
> assumed that the hard drive restriction was implemented in the BIOS code.  I
> don't think any of us tried using a different OS to see the hard drive.

Correct; a conner ~500mb drive and another 1 gig seagate drive show up in Linux, but show no signs of life in dos (I was using a win98 formatted floppy)

> I'm not sure where or how the actual comparison takes place.  There are some
> clues because there is a text string like "CP344CP3044CP322" in the BIOS code. 
> The assumption was, at boot, the hard drive was asked, "What is your model
> number?"
> If it's response didn't match was in the code, then the BIOS would not allow the
> hard drive to boot.
> I found out later that changing the text wasn't enough.  The drive parameters
> (cylinders/heads/sectors/LZ/pre-comp,etc) had to be in a separate table.

Ah yes, I see a string "CP3022CP3024CP3044CP3042CP344CP3104R" in there.

A quick net search reveals the geometry stats for a few of those drives:

CP3024 - native - 636/2/33, translated - 615/4/17, 21mb
CP3044 - native - 1047/2/40, translated - 980/5/17, 43mb
CP344 - native - 805/4/26, translated - 980/5/17, 42mb
CP3104 - native 776/8/33, translated - 776/8/33, 104mb

I quickly tried searching for some of the cylinder/heads/sectors numbers and searching for them as either as ascii (decimal) or as hex (i.e. big endian 0x0308 or little endian 0x0803 for "776") and that sort of points to around 0x6400 in the reassembled odd/even rom. I'll do some more number crunching and see if there is any rhyme/reason to that area of the bios.

Sadly, I do have a CP2044PK hard drive, a little 2.5" version of the 3044 with the same cylinders / sectors / heads, but trying to boot linux with it connected on a normal machine gives endless ide failures.  If it worked, I would be tempted to just change the 3044 to 2044 and burn a new bios pair.


> More questions:
> What option on Rombuild did you use to make 8088 compatable EPROMs?  Did you
> modify the Grid BIOS EPROMS at all?  And if you did, how did you deal with the
> checksum issue?

I ran the rombuild program on a GRiDcase-2 and basically chose the options to make a boot rom, and threw in mode.com (to turn on the internal modem or serial port).  One question asked how many files, I answered 4, thinking that msdos.sys, io.sys, command.com and mode would total 4, though I'm not really sure if that number was needed, or excessive.  That took up 2 chips, and I made a third chip as a non-boot with the term .exe and the config file for it.  For output I chose the intel hex format and the checksums it mentioned matched what my eprom programmer program displayed, so the file format was legit.

I haven't tried modifying the BIOS yet, but I do have it downloaded for analysis/modification.  As far as the checksum goes, I guess I would try messing with some of the pointless text like "all rights reserved" and see if that helps to get the right checksum.

>
> Again Kevin, I want to say that I'm really impressed with your work and it's
> motivated me to get back on this project.

Cool. Seeing Linux running on the 1535 certainly gives me some motivation :)

Yahoo! Message number: 2144
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 11:35:36 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "geezer90awd" <chiopas@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 7:01 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!


> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>> your data is to you.  He does all of his coding in assembly language, 
>> btw.
>> The whole download file is 170K, and even includes enough of FreeDOS to 
>> make
> Wow! That's pretty hardcore!

Ain't it, though?  He started Gibson Research back when RAM and hard drive 
space were seriously expensive, so the emphasis was on elegance at the cost 
of beauty, not beauty at the cost of efficiency.  I mean, Windows' various 
incarnations are very pretty, but they're so bloated they can't get out of 
their own way.  SpinRite is plain to ugly, but it's elegant in its 
efficiency.  I'm glad Steve didn't forget his roots.

>> gummy over time.  Too bad they didn't put a thumbwheel into the side of 
>> the
>> drive to help give it a little spin, like the old Remington electric 
>> razors.
>> :-)
> I wish! That would save me the trouble of having to take the GRiD apart 
> and then the hard drive every time I forget about it for a few weeks. So 
> far the drive is staying "free" with an activation every couple days. 
> Maybe its time to hack an xmas tree timer to run it once a week.

Shouldn't be all that hard.  You wouldn't even have to boot the thing, just 
spin the hard drive up and back down.  In fact, I wouldn't even bother. 
Stick a floppy in the drive and boot from that.  Set up AUTOEXEC.BAT so that 
it executes a timing loop, then calls EXIT just before the hardware timer 
pulls the plug.  Sure, EXIT won't do anything, because there's no parent 
shell to the one running, but it will dump all of the environment variables 
that need to be dumped, and you shouldn't suffer any damage to the 
filesystem.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."

Yahoo! Message number: 2145
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 00:44:12 -0000
From: "geezer90awd"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

Yep, it wouldn't take much, it could be done totally as-is.  If the cycle is long enough (~2 minutes), DOS will bootup and with no TSR's or anything else running, the HD heads will move to the park position automatically after about 15 seconds. From that point onward, shutdown by dropping power is totally possible.  That particular GRiD does not have a floppy; it is only possible to use them either thru the big 37 pin (like early scsi) 5.25" drive or the 25-pin 720k 3.5" drive, both of which have seen better days.


--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>

> Shouldn't be all that hard.  You wouldn't even have to boot the thing, just
> spin the hard drive up and back down.  In fact, I wouldn't even bother.
> Stick a floppy in the drive and boot from that.  Set up AUTOEXEC.BAT so that
> it executes a timing loop, then calls EXIT just before the hardware timer
> pulls the plug.  Sure, EXIT won't do anything, because there's no parent
> shell to the one running, but it will dump all of the environment variables
> that need to be dumped, and you shouldn't suffer any damage to the
> filesystem.
>
> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2146
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 10:31:39 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!

If you could get a modern 1.44M drive wired up to that thing, it would be 
better than nothing.  The tracks are skinnier, but it will still go 720K. 
But, yeah, if there's nothing manipulating data on the drive, it would 
definitely be safe to drop power.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "geezer90awd" <chiopas@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 8:44 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD 1535EXP Linux and Hard Drive success!


> Yep, it wouldn't take much, it could be done totally as-is.  If the cycle 
> is long enough (~2 minutes), DOS will bootup and with no TSR's or anything 
> else running, the HD heads will move to the park position automatically 
> after about 15 seconds. From that point onward, shutdown by dropping power 
> is totally possible.  That particular GRiD does not have a floppy; it is 
> only possible to use them either thru the big 37 pin (like early scsi) 
> 5.25" drive or the 25-pin 720k 3.5" drive, both of which have seen better 
> days.
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>>
>
>> Shouldn't be all that hard.  You wouldn't even have to boot the thing, 
>> just
>> spin the hard drive up and back down.  In fact, I wouldn't even bother.
>> Stick a floppy in the drive and boot from that.  Set up AUTOEXEC.BAT so 
>> that
>> it executes a timing loop, then calls EXIT just before the hardware timer
>> pulls the plug.  Sure, EXIT won't do anything, because there's no parent
>> shell to the one running, but it will dump all of the environment 
>> variables
>> that need to be dumped, and you shouldn't suffer any damage to the
>> filesystem.
>>
>> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2147
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 01:46:02 -0000
From: "geezer90awd"
Subject: 1535EX and conner drive

I have a bit more progress to report...

I came across an actual CP3104 Conner drive. It looked terrible, oxidization on the contacts and parts of the chassis, but amazingly it worked when I plugged it into an AMD Athlon based linux box and partitioned/formatted it.

Moving onto the 1535, I tried net-booting linux with the drive connected, but it pretty much freaked at the hard drive detection point; it reported the cyls/heads/sectors as 776/208/208, the latter 2 numbers obviously bogus.  ide errors followed, and I wasn't about to sit around waiting for something to happen.  Feeling suspicious, I decided to shorten my IDE cabling to about 2 feet and amazingly Linux suddenly saw the proper C/H/S combination.  At that point I even got one of those press F1 to continue, as if the 1535 finally noticed something was there.  Still no luck booting off the drive though. I decided to boot off a W98 formatted floppy and amazingly, fdisk saw the drive! An fdisk /MBR and a sys c: to refresh the boot stuff managed to work and at this point, the GRiD will turn on and boot off the hard drive by default!

At this point, I couldn't resist booting back to linux, so I could copy himem.sys, some dos utils and Doom SE onto the drive. Another boot back into DOS and I got DOOM running. Performance was nothing to write home about; I think DOOM on a 12.5MHz 386 is the slowest I've ever seen, but it actually worked! I had to run low detail and with a mini-screen 2 notches up from the postage-stamp sized smallest window.

While in dos, I found a possible drive support clue - GRIDSCAN.EXE reported the drive as a "Type 7 100MB"
Perhaps with that "position" in mind, it will aid in figuring out how the BIOS works.

-Kevin

Yahoo! Message number: 2148
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 19:09:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1535EX and conner drive

Kevin,
Amazing progress! Great work! 
I feel so inadequate. :(
I think the 3104 is one of the drives in the table.  If it's not in the text
table, I'm pretty sure it's CHS values are in the table.
What flavor of Linux are you running?  I know you said, but I forgot.
Again, great work!
-Shawn



----- Original Message ----
From: geezer90awd <chiopas@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, November 9, 2010 8:46:02 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1535EX and conner drive

I have a bit more progress to report...

I came across an actual CP3104 Conner drive. It looked terrible, oxidization on
the contacts and parts of the chassis, but amazingly it worked when I plugged it
into an AMD Athlon based linux box and partitioned/formatted it. 


Moving onto the 1535, I tried net-booting linux with the drive connected, but it
pretty much freaked at the hard drive detection point; it reported the
cyls/heads/sectors as 776/208/208, the latter 2 numbers obviously bogus.  ide
errors followed, and I wasn't about to sit around waiting for something to
happen.  Feeling suspicious, I decided to shorten my IDE cabling to about 2 feet
and amazingly Linux suddenly saw the proper C/H/S combination.  At that point I
even got one of those press F1 to continue, as if the 1535 finally noticed
something was there.  Still no luck booting off the drive though. I decided to
boot off a W98 formatted floppy and amazingly, fdisk saw the drive! An fdisk
/MBR and a sys c: to refresh the boot stuff managed to work and at this point,
the GRiD will turn on and boot off the hard drive by default!


At this point, I couldn't resist booting back to linux, so I could copy
himem.sys, some dos utils and Doom SE onto the drive. Another boot back into DOS
and I got DOOM running. Performance was nothing to write home about; I think
DOOM on a 12.5MHz 386 is the slowest I've ever seen, but it actually worked! I
had to run low detail and with a mini-screen 2 notches up from the postage-stamp
sized smallest window. 


While in dos, I found a possible drive support clue - GRIDSCAN.EXE reported the
drive as a "Type 7 100MB"

Perhaps with that "position" in mind, it will aid in figuring out how the BIOS
works. 


-Kevin





------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2149
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 03:54:00 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: 1535EX and conner drive

This is great stuff, Kevin.

I've followed along with interest. The CP3104 is the full height 100 Mb drive that was one of the three original designated accepted drives in the original BIOS of the 1500 series computers, along with the CP3402 and CP3404 (and variant CP344), which were the 20 Mb and 40Mb drives respectively. (I think I got that correct. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) I managed to actually procure a brand new CP3104 that had been just sitting in someone dealer's storage space for 20 years when I ran across it on the net. I used it in a 1520 which had an IBM drive which, of course, the computer could not see. The CP3104 came right up in FDISK and I took off with it from there, using DOS 6.22.

I've never worked with linux before, so all of that is new territory for me, but I find it an interesting alternative. I have a few 1535's, but only two or three of them are working. The others have problems on the motherbaords as best as I can tell, which prevent them from booting up. But I also have a couple of the accesory board platforms which plug in underneath, although I have yet to investigate getting some sort of boards to work with them.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Kevin,
> Amazing progress! Great work! 
> I feel so inadequate. :(
> I think the 3104 is one of the drives in the table.  If it's not in the text
> table, I'm pretty sure it's CHS values are in the table.
> What flavor of Linux are you running?  I know you said, but I forgot.
> Again, great work!
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: geezer90awd <chiopas@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, November 9, 2010 8:46:02 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1535EX and conner drive
>
> I have a bit more progress to report...
>
> I came across an actual CP3104 Conner drive. It looked terrible, oxidization on
> the contacts and parts of the chassis, but amazingly it worked when I plugged it
> into an AMD Athlon based linux box and partitioned/formatted it. 
>
>
> Moving onto the 1535, I tried net-booting linux with the drive connected, but it
> pretty much freaked at the hard drive detection point; it reported the
> cyls/heads/sectors as 776/208/208, the latter 2 numbers obviously bogus.  ide
> errors followed, and I wasn't about to sit around waiting for something to
> happen.  Feeling suspicious, I decided to shorten my IDE cabling to about 2 feet
> and amazingly Linux suddenly saw the proper C/H/S combination.  At that point I
> even got one of those press F1 to continue, as if the 1535 finally noticed
> something was there.  Still no luck booting off the drive though. I decided to
> boot off a W98 formatted floppy and amazingly, fdisk saw the drive! An fdisk
> /MBR and a sys c: to refresh the boot stuff managed to work and at this point,
> the GRiD will turn on and boot off the hard drive by default!
>
>
> At this point, I couldn't resist booting back to linux, so I could copy
> himem.sys, some dos utils and Doom SE onto the drive. Another boot back into DOS
> and I got DOOM running. Performance was nothing to write home about; I think
> DOOM on a 12.5MHz 386 is the slowest I've ever seen, but it actually worked! I
> had to run low detail and with a mini-screen 2 notches up from the postage-stamp
> sized smallest window. 
>
>
> While in dos, I found a possible drive support clue - GRIDSCAN.EXE reported the
> drive as a "Type 7 100MB"
>
> Perhaps with that "position" in mind, it will aid in figuring out how the BIOS
> works. 
>
>
> -Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2150
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:13:16 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1535EX and conner drive

Hi, Kevin!

Good deal!  One caveat, though.  According to the way I understand the IDE 
spec, the maximum length of the cable is 18".  I think if you shorten your 
cable to that length, some of your other problems might disappear.  Wonder 
if that particular version of the BIOS has LBA translation.  Thinking 
probably not, because I don't think that showed up until 1995 or so, 
thinking back to an old Biostar board I had with LBA transportation that 
*almost* worked.  :-)  I had to play some games with BIOS to get everything 
I wanted on the drive working properly.  I wanted to put DOS and OS/2 Warp 
3.0 on the drive, but BIOS only saw the first 1024 cylinders -- 472MB, with 
the heads and sectors that LBA came up with -- but OS/2 could see the rest 
of the drive.  So, I put OS/2's Boot Manager on a primary partition with no 
letter attached to it, then a primary partition called C: with DOS and 
Win3.1 in it, then an extended partition with logical drives D:, E:, and F:, 
formatted for OS/2.  OS/2 could, indeed, see the whole drive, so I was fine 
there.  I had Linux on another drive -- RedHat 5.2 Deluxe -- and an entry in 
Boot Manager pointed to LILO on that disk.  So, I had my choice of three 
operating systems -- DOS, OS/2, and Linux -- and a resource-sucking DOS 
shell -- Windows 3.1.  :-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "geezer90awd" <chiopas@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 8:46 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1535EX and conner drive


>I have a bit more progress to report...
>
> I came across an actual CP3104 Conner drive. It looked terrible, 
> oxidization on the contacts and parts of the chassis, but amazingly it 
> worked when I plugged it into an AMD Athlon based linux box and 
> partitioned/formatted it.
>
> Moving onto the 1535, I tried net-booting linux with the drive connected, 
> but it pretty much freaked at the hard drive detection point; it reported 
> the cyls/heads/sectors as 776/208/208, the latter 2 numbers obviously 
> bogus.  ide errors followed, and I wasn't about to sit around waiting for 
> something to happen.  Feeling suspicious, I decided to shorten my IDE 
> cabling to about 2 feet and amazingly Linux suddenly saw the proper C/H/S 
> combination.  At that point I even got one of those press F1 to continue, 
> as if the 1535 finally noticed something was there.  Still no luck booting 
> off the drive though. I decided to boot off a W98 formatted floppy and 
> amazingly, fdisk saw the drive! An fdisk /MBR and a sys c: to refresh the 
> boot stuff managed to work and at this point, the GRiD will turn on and 
> boot off the hard drive by default!
>
> At this point, I couldn't resist booting back to linux, so I could copy 
> himem.sys, some dos utils and Doom SE onto the drive. Another boot back 
> into DOS and I got DOOM running. Performance was nothing to write home 
> about; I think DOOM on a 12.5MHz 386 is the slowest I've ever seen, but it 
> actually worked! I had to run low detail and with a mini-screen 2 notches 
> up from the postage-stamp sized smallest window.
>
> While in dos, I found a possible drive support clue - GRIDSCAN.EXE 
> reported the drive as a "Type 7 100MB"
> Perhaps with that "position" in mind, it will aid in figuring out how the 
> BIOS works.
>
> -Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2151
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 18:47:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Jimmy Gillis
Subject:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii

glad i found you guys i am a newbie and any help would be great



      

Yahoo! Message number: 2152
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 18:49:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Jimmy Gillis
Subject:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii

hey are you there?



      

Yahoo! Message number: 2153
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 02:54:57 -0000
From: "Jimmy"
Subject: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and dont had operation floppys

anyone know how i can fix these?

Yahoo! Message number: 2154
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 03:11:02 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] (unknown)
text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Yes. This is a email reflector. My name is Shawn.  I am one of the admins of the group.
I saw and approved your request to join. I also saw your message about your disk problems. Can you give us some more info?
Thanks,
-Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 18:49:26 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] (unknown)

hey are you there?



      

Yahoo! Message number: 2155
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 04:12:29 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and dont had operation floppys

Hi, Jimmy,

     I'm afraid you are going to have to give us a lot more information about what is going on. Our group concentrates on the 1520 and 1530 models for the most part. There's not much activity on the 1550sx. I myself have begun to try and work somewhat with these models, but have not had hardly any success. Due to the age of the computers, you can bet that the internal CMOS battery is dead. In these computers, that can cause the computer to not recognize the hard drive even being there. However, when I replace the CMOS battery in a 1550sx, there seems to be some other problem because I've yet get a broken one to wake up. I have a couple of working 1550sx models. Unfortunately, I really haven't had time to play around with them much at all. But give us all the information you can and I'll see what I can tell you.

Phil


--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Jimmy" <gillis123451599@...> wrote:
>
> anyone know how i can fix these?
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2156
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:38:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Jimmy Gillis
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] (unknown)
text/plain; charset=utf-8

hard disk failure, factory defaults restore hit f1 but thats as far as it goes
both units same thing





________________________________
From: "shawnerz@..." <shawnerz@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 7:11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] (unknown)


Yes. This is a email reflector. My name is Shawn.  I am one of the admins of the
group.
I saw and approved your request to join. I also saw your message about your disk
problems. Can you give us some more info?
Thanks,
-Shawn
________________________________

From:  Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...>
Sender:  RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 18:49:26 -0800 (PST)
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo:  RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] (unknown)

hey are you there?

Yahoo! Message number: 2157
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:42:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Jimmy Gillis
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and dont had operation floppys
text/plain; charset=utf-8

hard disk failure invalid configuration factory defauts restored strike f1 to
continue but the nothing. last time these were up was like three years ago got
them from a china dude that didnt speak english well have no floppys for them
shall i slide out the guts an replace battery then go from there?





________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...m>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 8:12:29 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and
dont had operation floppys


Hi, Jimmy,

I'm afraid you are going to have to give us a lot more information about what is
going on. Our group concentrates on the 1520 and 1530 models for the most part.
There's not much activity on the 1550sx. I myself have begun to try and work
somewhat with these models, but have not had hardly any success. Due to the age
of the computers, you can bet that the internal CMOS battery is dead. In these 
computers, that can cause the computer to not recognize the hard drive even
being there. However, when I replace the CMOS battery in a 1550sx, there seems
to be some other problem because I've yet get a broken one to wake up. I have a
couple of working 1550sx models. Unfortunately, I really haven't had time to
play around with them much at all. But give us all the information you can and
I'll see what I can tell you.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Jimmy" <gillis123451599@...> wrote:
>
> anyone know how i can fix these?
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2158
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 22:50:47 -0600
From: Mike
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and dont had operation floppys
text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On 1/12/2011 10:42 PM, Jimmy Gillis wrote:
> hard disk failure invalid configuration factory defauts restored 
> strike f1 to continue but the nothing. last time these were up was 
> like three years ago got them from a china dude that didnt speak 
> english well have no floppys for them shall i slide out the guts an 
> replace battery then go from there?
>
>

Ok, this is getting annoying.

I would first suggest getting familiar with the keyboard that you are 
using.  It probably has two shift keys and some punctuation keys.  
Putting some effort into your postings would be nice too.

Maybe even a little searching using Google and some background reading 
would help, but that is probably asking too much.


Mike

Yahoo! Message number: 2159
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 21:03:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Jimmy Gillis
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and dont had operation floppys
text/plain; charset=utf-8

Sorry Iam a little sloppy. found battery yup its dead.looks like a 9volt  what
would be suitable for replacement?Didnt mean to annoy you





________________________________
From: Mike <mbbrutman@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 8:50:47 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message
and dont had operation floppys


On 1/12/2011 10:42 PM, Jimmy Gillis wrote:

>hard disk failure               invalid configuration factory defauts restored
>strike f1               to continue but the nothing. last time these were up was
>like three years ago got them from a china dude that didnt               speak
>english well have no floppys for them shall i slide               out the guts
>an replace battery then go from there?
>
>
>
>
Ok, this is getting annoying.

I would first suggest getting familiar with the keyboard that you     are
using.  It probably has two shift keys and some punctuation     keys.  Putting
some effort into your postings would be nice too.

Maybe even a little searching using Google and some background     reading would
help, but that is probably asking too much.


Mike

Yahoo! Message number: 2160
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 21:06:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Jimmy Gillis
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and dont had operation floppys
text/plain; charset=utf-8

yup battery was dead. looks like  a 9 volt what would be a suitable replacement?
sorry if my replies are short






________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 8:12:29 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and
dont had operation floppys


Hi, Jimmy,

I'm afraid you are going to have to give us a lot more information about what is
going on. Our group concentrates on the 1520 and 1530 models for the most part.
There's not much activity on the 1550sx. I myself have begun to try and work
somewhat with these models, but have not had hardly any success. Due to the age
of the computers, you can bet that the internal CMOS battery is dead. In these
computers, that can cause the computer to not recognize the hard drive even
being there. However, when I replace the CMOS battery in a 1550sx, there seems
to be some other problem because I've yet get a broken one to wake up. I have a
couple of working 1550sx models. Unfortunately, I really haven't had time to
play around with them much at all. But give us all the information you can and
I'll see what I can tell you.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Jimmy" <gillis123451599@...> wrote:
>
> anyone know how i can fix these?
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2161
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:26:28 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and dont had operation floppys

Jimmy,

No. Do NOT replace that "9 volt" battery with a 9 volt. That is NOT the CMOS battery. That battery is actually a 7.2 volt battery that is part of the charging mechanism involved in the battery pack system. What it does is to serve as the power supply for the entire computer for about 1 minute in order to be able to change out battery packs when one battery pack is about exhausted. This way you can stay on battery power indefinitely without having to shut the computer down, as long as you have recharged battery packs available. But that is ALL that battery is there for. You don't really need it. It is a rechargeable NiCad anyway and when the computer is on, it should charge it back up, but yours is also probably way too old also and will need to be replaced as well. I found replacements at Batteries and Butter dot com.

The CMOS battery is a little Tadiran 3.6 volt lithium ion battery (Look up the pictures on the net) which is on the motherboard way in the back of the computer underneath the power suppply, and it sits right up against the back plate of the computer where the back ports are. To get to it, you would have to disassemble the computer partially. You would have to take out the Hard Drive/Floppy disk complex, the battery pack/power supply slot casing, and then the power supply in order to get to that battery comfortably. It's not hard to do, but it is a little tricky. Getting the monitor display off is difficult because of the two separate wire bundles you have to deal with, one on each side. Take note of the different connections of the parts so that you put them back correctly. The best way to replace the battery is to just snip the leads off the old battery as close to the battery casing itself, use a needle nose to straighten the wries out, then solder in a new battery in its place to those wires. This way you don't have to completely strip out the the computer down to the motherboard and take it out too.

That may or may not resolve the hardware issue. This computer is a little more complex than a 1530 which is what I primarily work on. Like I said, I've procured about three or four of these units with the same display message as you have. I've replaced the CMOS battery in a couple of them, but it didn't seem to change anything. However, in any case the battery will likely have to be replaced. You can get the Tadiran battery at several places usually for about $5 - $10 roughly.

If that doesn't work, I don't realy have anything else to offer. I just don't hardly have any experience with this particular model.

I hope that helps.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...> wrote:
>
> yup battery was dead. looks like  a 9 volt what would be a suitable replacement?
> sorry if my replies are short
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 8:12:29 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and
> dont had operation floppys
>
>
> Hi, Jimmy,
>
> I'm afraid you are going to have to give us a lot more information about what is
> going on. Our group concentrates on the 1520 and 1530 models for the most part.
> There's not much activity on the 1550sx. I myself have begun to try and work
> somewhat with these models, but have not had hardly any success. Due to the age
> of the computers, you can bet that the internal CMOS battery is dead. In these
> computers, that can cause the computer to not recognize the hard drive even
> being there. However, when I replace the CMOS battery in a 1550sx, there seems
> to be some other problem because I've yet get a broken one to wake up. I have a
> couple of working 1550sx models. Unfortunately, I really haven't had time to
> play around with them much at all. But give us all the information you can and
> I'll see what I can tell you.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Jimmy" <gillis123451599@> wrote:
> >
> > anyone know how i can fix these?
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2162
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 05:54:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Jimmy and Stuff...
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Mike,
I know what you mean about basic grammar and punctuation skills.  It frustrates
me too.  I'd love to smack my 13 year old son for this lack of writing (and
spelling) ability.  
But a lot of times, in the technical fied, the person is new making an effort to
learn something new or English isn't their first language.  I've worked with a
lot of very smart guys, who can't write for sh..beans. So, I've found that I
have to give people the benefit of the doubt, and not judge by their (perceived
lack of) writing ability.
That being said, I ask that you please refrain from the comments, OK?  Thanks.

Jimmy,
I used to have a 1550, but I don't any more.  I do have several 1520's. 
For some reason, your replies ended up in my Spam folder.  So I mised them.  You
can thank Yahoo for that. 
I read the other replies from other users.  Do you have any floppy disk (3 1/2
inch diskettes)?  Even with the hard drive failure, you might be able to get the
computer to boot from the floopy drive.
I'd be curious to know if the computers have any markings or lettering on the
outside.  Sometimes Grids end up with various government agencies and it's kind
of interesting to know how they were used.
I'll wait for your response before I tell you how to make a boot disk.

Thanks,
-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2163
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 08:07:18 -0600
From: Mike
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Jimmy and Stuff...
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 1/13/2011 7:54 AM, Shawnerz wrote:
> Mike,
> I know what you mean about basic grammar and punctuation skills.  It 
> frustrates me too.  I'd love to smack my 13 year old son for this lack 
> of writing (and spelling) ability.
> But a lot of times, in the technical fied, the person is new making an 
> effort to learn something new or English isn't their first language.  
> I've worked with a lot of very smart guys, who can't write for 
> sh..beans. So, I've found that I have to give people the benefit of 
> the doubt, and not judge by their (perceived lack of) writing ability.
> That being said, I ask that you please refrain from the comments, OK?  
> Thanks.
>

Well Shawn, if making a basic effort to do some research or to write a 
legible note is not required then I think I'm done monitoring this 
group.  It was interesting, and I don't mind helping people who have the 
aptitude, but I consider the last few posts to be far outside the 
tolerances of normal, English as a second language or not.  (And I doubt 
that the use of the term "china dude" makes this a non-native English 
speaker.)

It's not like I even have a Grid ...  So if you want to defend the idiot 
at my expense, that's your call.

Have fun.  Email me on the side if you need something.


Mike

Yahoo! Message number: 2164
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:19:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Jimmy Gillis
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and dont had operation floppys
text/plain; charset=utf-8

Easily got to the cmos battery,removed drive and boom there it is. gonna replace
both then see what happens. the second 1550 I am leave plugged in for a while
and see whats up.they both seem to have a different dc hook up with a crazy pin
connector next to where the ac/battery pack slides in? do you have a battery
charger? Also I have looked for stuff online but keep finding dead sites.Do you
know where i can get os boot floppys? Thanks for dealing with a newbie





________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 10:26:28 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and
dont had operation floppys


Jimmy,

No. Do NOT replace that "9 volt" battery with a 9 volt. That is NOT the CMOS
battery. That battery is actually a 7.2 volt battery that is part of the
charging mechanism involved in the battery pack system. What it does is to serve 
as the power supply for the entire computer for about 1 minute in order to be
able to change out battery packs when one battery pack is about exhausted. This
way you can stay on battery power indefinitely without having to shut the
computer down, as long as you have recharged battery packs available. But that
is ALL that battery is there for. You don't really need it. It is a rechargeable
NiCad anyway and when the computer is on, it should charge it back up, but yours
is also probably way too old also and will need to be replaced as well. I found
replacements at Batteries and Butter dot com.

The CMOS battery is a little Tadiran 3.6 volt lithium ion battery (Look up the
pictures on the net) which is on the motherboard way in the back of the computer
underneath the power suppply, and it sits right up against the back plate of the
computer where the back ports are. To get to it, you would have to disassemble
the computer partially. You would have to take out the Hard Drive/Floppy disk
complex, the battery pack/power supply slot casing, and then the power supply in
order to get to that battery comfortably. It's not hard to do, but it is a
little tricky. Getting the monitor display off is difficult because of the two
separate wire bundles you have to deal with, one on each side. Take note of the
different connections of the parts so that you put them back correctly. The best
way to replace the battery is to just snip the leads off the old battery as
close to the battery casing itself, use a needle nose to straighten the wries
out, then solder in a new battery in its place to those wires. This way you
don't have to completely strip out the the computer down to the motherboard and 
take it out too.

That may or may not resolve the hardware issue. This computer is a little more
complex than a 1530 which is what I primarily work on. Like I said, I've
procured about three or four of these units with the same display message as you
have. I've replaced the CMOS battery in a couple of them, but it didn't seem to
change anything. However, in any case the battery will likely have to be
replaced. You can get the Tadiran battery at several places usually for about $5
- $10 roughly.

If that doesn't work, I don't realy have anything else to offer. I just don't
hardly have any experience with this particular model.

I hope that helps.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...> wrote:
>
> yup battery was dead. looks like  a 9 volt what would be a suitable
>replacement?
>
> sorry if my replies are short
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 8:12:29 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and

> dont had operation floppys
>
>
> Hi, Jimmy,
>
> I'm afraid you are going to have to give us a lot more information about what
>is
>
> going on. Our group concentrates on the 1520 and 1530 models for the most part.
>
> There's not much activity on the 1550sx. I myself have begun to try and work
> somewhat with these models, but have not had hardly any success. Due to the age
>
> of the computers, you can bet that the internal CMOS battery is dead. In these

> computers, that can cause the computer to not recognize the hard drive even
> being there. However, when I replace the CMOS battery in a 1550sx, there seems

> to be some other problem because I've yet get a broken one to wake up. I have a
>
> couple of working 1550sx models. Unfortunately, I really haven't had time to
> play around with them much at all. But give us all the information you can and

> I'll see what I can tell you.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Jimmy" <gillis123451599@> wrote:
> >
> > anyone know how i can fix these?
> >
>





  

Yahoo! Message number: 2165
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:31:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Jimmy Gillis
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Jimmy and Stuff...
text/plain; charset=utf-8

Sorry Mike  but i was looking for info not your rants and raves about how making
basic effort which one was contacting you guys about the1550. You spelled field
wrong maybe you should type it a few hundred times.Maybe you should talk to some
one about your issues




________________________________
From: Mike <mbbrutman@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 6:07:18 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Jimmy and Stuff...


On 1/13/2011 7:54 AM, Shawnerz wrote:

>Mike,
>I know what you mean about basic grammar and                 punctuation
>skills.  It frustrates me too.  I'd love to                 smack my 13 year old
>son for this lack of writing (and                 spelling) ability.
>But a lot of times, in the technical fied, the person                 is new
>making an effort to learn something new or                 English isn't their
>first language.  I've worked with a                 lot of very smart guys, who
>can't write for sh..beans.                 So, I've found that I have to give
>people the benefit of                 the doubt, and not judge by their
>(perceived lack of)                 writing ability.
>That being said, I ask that you please refrain                 from the
>comments, OK?  Thanks.
>
Well Shawn, if making a basic effort to do some research or to write     a
legible note is not required then I think I'm done monitoring this     group.
It was interesting, and I don't mind helping people who have     the aptitude,
but I consider the last few posts to be far outside     the tolerances of
normal, English as a second language or not.  (And     I doubt that the use of
the term "china dude" makes this a     non-native English speaker.)

It's not like I even have a Grid ...  So if you want to defend the     idiot at
my expense, that's your call.

Have fun.  Email me on the side if you need something.


Mike

Yahoo! Message number: 2166
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 14:33:45 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and dont had operation floppys
text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Yes. But I'll have to get you the information later when I'm not at work.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@yahoo.com>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:19:49 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and dont had operation floppys

Easily got to the cmos battery,removed drive and boom there it is. gonna replace 
both then see what happens. the second 1550 I am leave plugged in for a while 
and see whats up.they both seem to have a different dc hook up with a crazy pin 
connector next to where the ac/battery pack slides in? do you have a battery 
charger? Also I have looked for stuff online but keep finding dead sites.Do you 
know where i can get os boot floppys? Thanks for dealing with a newbie  





________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@msn.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 10:26:28 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and 
dont had operation floppys

   
Jimmy,

No. Do NOT replace that "9 volt" battery with a 9 volt. That is NOT the CMOS 
battery. That battery is actually a 7.2 volt battery that is part of the 
charging mechanism involved in the battery pack system. What it does is to serve 
as the power supply for the entire computer for about 1 minute in order to be 
able to change out battery packs when one battery pack is about exhausted. This 
way you can stay on battery power indefinitely without having to shut the 
computer down, as long as you have recharged battery packs available. But that 
is ALL that battery is there for. You don't really need it. It is a rechargeable 
NiCad anyway and when the computer is on, it should charge it back up, but yours 
is also probably way too old also and will need to be replaced as well. I found 
replacements at Batteries and Butter dot com.

The CMOS battery is a little Tadiran 3.6 volt lithium ion battery (Look up the 
pictures on the net) which is on the motherboard way in the back of the computer 
underneath the power suppply, and it sits right up against the back plate of the 
computer where the back ports are. To get to it, you would have to disassemble 
the computer partially. You would have to take out the Hard Drive/Floppy disk 
complex, the battery pack/power supply slot casing, and then the power supply in 
order to get to that battery comfortably. It's not hard to do, but it is a 
little tricky. Getting the monitor display off is difficult because of the two 
separate wire bundles you have to deal with, one on each side. Take note of the 
different connections of the parts so that you put them back correctly. The best 
way to replace the battery is to just snip the leads off the old battery as 
close to the battery casing itself, use a needle nose to straighten the wries 
out, then solder in a new battery in its place to those wires. This way you 
don't have to completely strip out the the computer down to the motherboard and 
take it out too.

That may or may not resolve the hardware issue. This computer is a little more 
complex than a 1530 which is what I primarily work on. Like I said, I've 
procured about three or four of these units with the same display message as you 
have. I've replaced the CMOS battery in a couple of them, but it didn't seem to 
change anything. However, in any case the battery will likely have to be 
replaced. You can get the Tadiran battery at several places usually for about $5 
- $10 roughly.

If that doesn't work, I don't realy have anything else to offer. I just don't 
hardly have any experience with this particular model.

I hope that helps.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...> wrote:
>
> yup battery was dead. looks like  a 9 volt what would be a suitable 
>replacement? 
>
> sorry if my replies are short 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>________________________________
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 8:12:29 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and 

> dont had operation floppys
> 
> 
> Hi, Jimmy,
> 
> I'm afraid you are going to have to give us a lot more information about what 
>is 
>
> going on. Our group concentrates on the 1520 and 1530 models for the most part. 
>
> There's not much activity on the 1550sx. I myself have begun to try and work 
> somewhat with these models, but have not had hardly any success. Due to the age 
>
> of the computers, you can bet that the internal CMOS battery is dead. In these 

> computers, that can cause the computer to not recognize the hard drive even 
> being there. However, when I replace the CMOS battery in a 1550sx, there seems 

> to be some other problem because I've yet get a broken one to wake up. I have a 
>
> couple of working 1550sx models. Unfortunately, I really haven't had time to 
> play around with them much at all. But give us all the information you can and 

> I'll see what I can tell you.
> 
> Phil
> 
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Jimmy" <gillis123451599@> wrote:
> >
> > anyone know how i can fix these?
> >
>


 


      

Yahoo! Message number: 2167
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:35:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Jimmy Gillis
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and dont had operation floppys
text/plain; charset=utf-8

Ok thanks just email me later when its good for you.





________________________________
From: "shawnerz@..." <shawnerz@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 6:33:45 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message
and dont had operation floppys


Yes. But I'll have to get you the information later when I'm not at work.
________________________________

From:  Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...>
Sender:  RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:19:49 -0800 (PST)
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo:  RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message
and dont had operation floppys

Easily got to the cmos battery,removed drive and boom there it is. gonna replace
both then see what happens. the second 1550 I am leave plugged in for a while
and see whats up.they both seem to have a different dc hook up with a crazy pin
connector next to where the ac/battery pack slides in? do you have a battery
charger? Also I have looked for stuff online but keep finding dead sites.Do you
know where i can get os boot floppys? Thanks for dealing with a newbie





________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 10:26:28 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and
dont had operation floppys


Jimmy,

No. Do NOT replace that "9 volt" battery with a 9 volt. That is NOT the CMOS
battery. That battery is actually a 7.2 volt battery that is part of the 
charging mechanism involved in the battery pack system. What it does is to serve
as the power supply for the entire computer for about 1 minute in order to be
able to change out battery packs when one battery pack is about exhausted. This
way you can stay on battery power indefinitely without having to shut the
computer down, as long as you have recharged battery packs available. But that
is ALL that battery is there for. You don't really need it. It is a rechargeable
NiCad anyway and when the computer is on, it should charge it back up, but yours
is also probably way too old also and will need to be replaced as well. I found
replacements at Batteries and Butter dot com.

The CMOS battery is a little Tadiran 3.6 volt lithium ion battery (Look up the
pictures on the net) which is on the motherboard way in the back of the computer
underneath the power suppply, and it sits right up against the back plate of the
computer where the back ports are. To get to it, you would have to disassemble
the computer partially. You would have to take out the Hard Drive/Floppy disk
complex, the battery pack/power supply slot casing, and then the power supply in
order to get to that battery comfortably. It's not hard to do, but it is a
little tricky. Getting the monitor display off is difficult because of the two
separate wire bundles you have to deal with, one on each side. Take note of the
different connections of the parts so that you put them back correctly. The best
way to replace the battery is to just snip the leads off the old battery as
close to the battery casing itself, use a needle nose to straighten the wries
out, then solder in  a new battery in its place to those wires. This way you
don't have to completely strip out the the computer down to the motherboard and
take it out too.

That may or may not resolve the hardware issue. This computer is a little more
complex than a 1530 which is what I primarily work on. Like I said, I've
procured about three or four of these units with the same display message as you
have. I've replaced the CMOS battery in a couple of them, but it didn't seem to
change anything. However, in any case the battery will likely have to be
replaced. You can get the Tadiran battery at several places usually for about $5
- $10 roughly.

If that doesn't work, I don't realy have anything else to offer. I just don't
hardly have any experience with this particular model.

I hope that helps.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...> wrote:
>
> yup battery was dead. looks like  a 9 volt what would be a suitable
>replacement?
>
> sorry if my replies are short
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 8:12:29 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and 

> dont had operation floppys
>
>
> Hi, Jimmy,
>
> I'm afraid you are going to have to give us a lot more information about what
>is
>
> going on. Our group concentrates on the 1520 and 1530 models for the most part.
>
> There's not much activity on the 1550sx. I myself have begun to try and work
> somewhat with these models, but have not had hardly any success. Due to the age
>
> of the computers, you can bet that the internal CMOS battery is dead. In these

> computers, that can cause the computer to not recognize the hard drive even
> being there. However, when I replace the CMOS battery in a 1550sx, there seems

> to be some other problem because I've yet get a broken one to wake up. I have a
>
> couple of working 1550sx models. Unfortunately, I really haven't had time to
> play around with them much at all. But give us all the information you can and

> I'll see what I can tell you.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Jimmy" <gillis123451599@> wrote:
> >
> > anyone know how i can fix these?
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2168
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:44:29 -0500
From: "Len.C"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Jimmy and Stuff...
text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Not that I have conversed with Mike on here a lot or even at all but I 
too was like this isn't even worth reading.

And the thing that pisses people of really is not the fact that you are 
so bad at it, but the fact we do know that you can do it, ya you last 
few have been a 90% improvement over what you had been doing.  Look at 
what you posted here, I really one see 2 mistakes in it, and some of it 
just doesn't make sense to me, but otherwise its good.  Just missing a 
period and a space.

But I will say, IT IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN WHEN PEOPLE POST ALL THE 
MESSAGES JUST LIKE THIS!

I won't even attempt to read them, I don't like being yelled at, and 
have only read messages like that on a radio group I belong to.  One of 
the techs was legally blind and it was the only way HE could see what 
was on the screen and every on the group was fine with that.  But the 
way your messages where was, well, you know, just disgusting, and I just 
deleted them.  I haven't fired up my grid in years, I tossed out allot 
of stuff when I moved last year, much of it I could have had a use for 
right now, but just wasn't used, but I kept my 2 grids one of which 
works and I carried all over the Dayton ham fest many years ago.

On 1/13/2011 9:31 AM, Jimmy Gillis wrote:
> Sorry Mike  but i was looking for info not your rants and raves about 
> how making basic effort which one was contacting you guys about 
> the1550. You spelled field wrong maybe you should type it a few 
> hundred times.Maybe you should talk to some one about your issues
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Mike <mbbrutman@...>
> *To:* RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Thu, January 13, 2011 6:07:18 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Jimmy and Stuff...
>
> On 1/13/2011 7:54 AM, Shawnerz wrote:
>
>> Mike,
>> I know what you mean about basic grammar and punctuation skills.  It 
>> frustrates me too.  I'd love to smack my 13 year old son for this 
>> lack of writing (and spelling) ability.
>> But a lot of times, in the technical fied, the person is new making 
>> an effort to learn something new or English isn't their first 
>> language.  I've worked with a lot of very smart guys, who can't write 
>> for sh..beans. So, I've found that I have to give people the benefit 
>> of the doubt, and not judge by their (perceived lack of) writing ability.
>> That being said, I ask that you please refrain from the comments, 
>> OK?  Thanks.
>>
>
> Well Shawn, if making a basic effort to do some research or to write a 
> legible note is not required then I think I'm done monitoring this 
> group.  It was interesting, and I don't mind helping people who have 
> the aptitude, but I consider the last few posts to be far outside the 
> tolerances of normal, English as a second language or not.  (And I 
> doubt that the use of the term "china dude" makes this a non-native 
> English speaker.)
>
> It's not like I even have a Grid ...  So if you want to defend the 
> idiot at my expense, that's your call.
>
> Have fun.  Email me on the side if you need something.
>
>
> Mike
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2169
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:54:44 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message and dont had operation floppys

Hey, Phil,

This may be a stupid question, but did the 1550sx have a CMOS setup program 
built in, or was it like the many early ATs that needed an external program 
to do it?  If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10, S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get you 
into setup, maybe it needed one of those programs.  I may have to break down 
and stick a 5.25" drive into this 64-bit box I'm running here to recover 
same, but if you need some of those programs, let me know, and I'll see what 
I can dig up.  I can't even remember now if my 1520 has that requirement. 
:-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 11:12 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message 
and dont had operation floppys


> Hi, Jimmy,
>
>     I'm afraid you are going to have to give us a lot more information 
> about what is going on. Our group concentrates on the 1520 and 1530 models 
> for the most part. There's not much activity on the 1550sx. I myself have 
> begun to try and work somewhat with these models, but have not had hardly 
> any success. Due to the age of the computers, you can bet that the 
> internal CMOS battery is dead. In these computers, that can cause the 
> computer to not recognize the hard drive even being there. However, when I 
> replace the CMOS battery in a 1550sx, there seems to be some other problem 
> because I've yet get a broken one to wake up. I have a couple of working 
> 1550sx models. Unfortunately, I really haven't had time to play around 
> with them much at all. But give us all the information you can and I'll 
> see what I can tell you.
>
> Phil
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Jimmy" <gillis123451599@...> wrote:
>>
>> anyone know how i can fix these?
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2170
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 08:39:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Boot Disk

Jimmy,
I going to assume that the computer you're using to surf the web on has a 3.5
floppy drive.  If you have a newer computer, it may not.  If you don't have
access to a computer with the web AND a 3.5 floopy, you might as well stop.

Put a blank disk in to the floppy drive.  The easiest way to make a boot disk is
to go to bootdisk.com.
Or, click on the link:
http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm

Select any of the the DOS images.  You can run 6.22 on your machine.  But DOS
5.0 is good for our purpose.
Save the file.  Then run the file and it tell it to extract to the floppy drive.

Once you have the boot disk, put it in the Grid.
Turn the Grid on.  Periodically press the 'f' key.  This tells the Grid to boot
from the floppy drive instead of the hard drive.  You might have to do this a
couple of times to time it right.  Also, if you get to the "Hard Disk Failure"
message and the computer doesn't do anything, hit ctrl-alt-del rather than power
cycle the computer.

The Grid should boot to DOS.  From there, you can get a general idea if the
computer is working.

Keep in mind that your computer was build in the early 1990's.  It has a 386SX
microprocessor.  There really isn't much that computer will do except run legacy
(old) software from that era.

Let us know what you find.
-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2171
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 08:50:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Response to Tom

Tom,
The early Grid's BIOS was not accessable like today's computer.  On the Grid,
you cannot hit a key on boot and change the BIOS parameters.  There is an
external config file that can be used (conf1520.exe and conf1550.exe) that can
be used to change a few default parameters (backlight, modem port, inverse or
normal display, and a few other options) but that's about it.
The true BIOS is 'hard coded' in to two EPROMS on the motherboard.  You are
severely limited on internal hardware options on a Grid.
-Shawn


----- Original Message ----
From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 10:54:44 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure message
and dont had operation floppys

Hey, Phil,

This may be a stupid question, but did the 1550sx have a CMOS setup program
built in, or was it like the many early ATs that needed an external program
to do it?  If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10, S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get you
into setup, maybe it needed one of those programs.  I may have to break down
and stick a 5.25" drive into this 64-bit box I'm running here to recover
same, but if you need some of those programs, let me know, and I'll see what
I can dig up.  I can't even remember now if my 1520 has that requirement.
:-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."

Yahoo! Message number: 2172
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:50:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: My 1520 Status Update

All,
My ultimate goal is to get the 1520 to boot from Compact Flash (CF).  Kevin
(geezer90) and another guy made some progress with their Grids and it motivated
me to continue.
The short version of the story: I still haven't gotten it to boot from Compact
Flash.

Long version:  If you ever get in to modifying the Grid BIOS, you need a lot of
working space.  You need to have space to take the Grid apart, you need space
for another computer, and tools and stuff.  I usually take up the kitchen
table.  And I usually do it over long breaks from work.
Over the Thanksgiving break, I was able to extend the IDE interface so I could
plug in an IDE to CF adapter.  If I plugged in a normal IDE drive that was in
the BIOS table, the computer would boot from it.
Hint: Use a hard drive extension cable NOT a standard IDE cable. (The pinout
won't be right).
I didn't expect it to work but I tried to get my 1520 to see a 128 MB CF using
the IDE to CD adapter.  It did not see the CF because there were no
modifications to the BIOS.
 
I also tried getting Linux to work on the 1520.  I tried two different
distributions of ELKS and neither one was successful in booting.  I kept getting
init panics.  I could install to the hard drive.  But when the computer
re-booted after the installation, I would get init panic messages.
That was all I accomplished over Thanksgiving.
 
A person (Tom?  Kevin?) said they were able to get their Grid to "see" different
drive types by booting a different OS.  I didn't see this at all.  If the hard
drive was not in the BIOS table, I could not see the drive.  It did not matter
if I used DOS or Linux. 

 
Over the Christmas break, I edited the BIOS and tried to get the 1520 to see the
compact flash drive.  I tried a bunch of different combinations and a bunch of
different hardware configurations.  I never got it to work.  At the end of it
all, my original hardware setup of the IDE extension cable connected to a known
working rotating drive no longer worked.
So, I probably have something wrong in my hardware setup.
 
No breakthroughs and very little progress, but I thought I'd let people know I'm
still working on it.
-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2173
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 02:42:14 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: My 1520 Status Update
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Answer to Jimmy:

Do you have a battery charger? Also I have looked for stuff online but
keep finding dead sites.Do you know where i can get os boot floppys?
Thanks for dealing with a newbie .

The computer company went out of business 20 years ago. Pretty much all
of the sites that dealt with it are gone, so you aren't going to find
anything except forums like ours. As to a battery charger, there isn't
one. The computer was versatile in that it had a power supply and a
battery pack, both the same size and shape, that fit into the back slot.
You could simply plug in the pwoer supply and run the computer off of it
that way, or you could plug in the battery pack and then with a separate
power cord coming form the pwoer supply, plug that cord into the
computer in the little power receptacle next to the power supply slot.
By doing that, you powered the computer with the power supply and
charged the battery pack at the same time. These days, any battery packs
are likely to have NiCads that are shot as they will be greater than 20
years of age. They probably won't hold a charge. It is possible to
rebuild them, but breaking into those old units to replce the batteries
can be a tall order. The battery packs put out 16.25 volts at 3.7 amps.
If you have a usable battery pack, you would probably have to build a
NiCad charger for it from scratch. That's a lot of work to get that
done, but if you're willing, that's likely how it would have to be done.
Shawn has already answered you about the OS boot disks.

Answer to Mark:


Hey, Phil,

This may be a stupid question, but did the 1550sx have a CMOS setup
program
built in, or was it like the many early ATs that needed an external
program
to do it? If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10, S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get
you
into setup, maybe it needed one of those programs. I may have to break
down
and stick a 5.25" drive into this 64-bit box I'm running here to recover
same, but if you need some of those programs, let me know, and I'll see
what
I can dig up. I can't even remember now if my 1520 has that requirement.
:-)

Shawn is right, there is no CMOS setup program. What primitive features
are there is all hardwired into the BIOS chips.



Answer to Shawn:


Jimmy,
I going to assume that the computer you're using to surf the web on has
a 3.5
floppy drive.  If you have a newer computer, it may not.  If you don't
have
access to a computer with the web AND a 3.5 floopy, you might as well
stop.

All,
My ultimate goal is to get the 1520 to boot from Compact Flash (CF).
Kevin
(geezer90) and another guy made some progress with their Grids and it
motivated
me to continue.
The short version of the story: I still haven't gotten it to boot from
Compact
Flash.

I will be very interested in how this turns out, Shawn.  I'm still
trying to get my 1520's and 1530's recognize a CDROM and JAZZ drive. It
should do it, but for some reason it's making the connection. Could be
some of the components I've got though.

Yahoo! Message number: 2174
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 02:43:22 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: My 1520 Status Update

Sorry, Tom,

I meant you, not Mark.

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
>
> Answer to Jimmy:
>
> Do you have a battery charger? Also I have looked for stuff online but
> keep finding dead sites.Do you know where i can get os boot floppys?
> Thanks for dealing with a newbie .
>
> The computer company went out of business 20 years ago. Pretty much all
> of the sites that dealt with it are gone, so you aren't going to find
> anything except forums like ours. As to a battery charger, there isn't
> one. The computer was versatile in that it had a power supply and a
> battery pack, both the same size and shape, that fit into the back slot.
> You could simply plug in the pwoer supply and run the computer off of it
> that way, or you could plug in the battery pack and then with a separate
> power cord coming form the pwoer supply, plug that cord into the
> computer in the little power receptacle next to the power supply slot.
> By doing that, you powered the computer with the power supply and
> charged the battery pack at the same time. These days, any battery packs
> are likely to have NiCads that are shot as they will be greater than 20
> years of age. They probably won't hold a charge. It is possible to
> rebuild them, but breaking into those old units to replce the batteries
> can be a tall order. The battery packs put out 16.25 volts at 3.7 amps.
> If you have a usable battery pack, you would probably have to build a
> NiCad charger for it from scratch. That's a lot of work to get that
> done, but if you're willing, that's likely how it would have to be done.
> Shawn has already answered you about the OS boot disks.
>
> Answer to Mark:
>
>
> Hey, Phil,
>
> This may be a stupid question, but did the 1550sx have a CMOS setup
> program
> built in, or was it like the many early ATs that needed an external
> program
> to do it? If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10, S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get
> you
> into setup, maybe it needed one of those programs. I may have to break
> down
> and stick a 5.25" drive into this 64-bit box I'm running here to recover
> same, but if you need some of those programs, let me know, and I'll see
> what
> I can dig up. I can't even remember now if my 1520 has that requirement.
> :-)
>
> Shawn is right, there is no CMOS setup program. What primitive features
> are there is all hardwired into the BIOS chips.
>
>
>
> Answer to Shawn:
>
>
> Jimmy,
> I going to assume that the computer you're using to surf the web on has
> a 3.5
> floppy drive.  If you have a newer computer, it may not.  If you don't
> have
> access to a computer with the web AND a 3.5 floopy, you might as well
> stop.
>
> All,
> My ultimate goal is to get the 1520 to boot from Compact Flash (CF).
> Kevin
> (geezer90) and another guy made some progress with their Grids and it
> motivated
> me to continue.
> The short version of the story: I still haven't gotten it to boot from
> Compact
> Flash.
>
> I will be very interested in how this turns out, Shawn.  I'm still
> trying to get my 1520's and 1530's recognize a CDROM and JAZZ drive. It
> should do it, but for some reason it's making the connection. Could be
> some of the components I've got though.
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2175
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 23:46:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Jimmy Gillis
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: My 1520 Status Update
text/plain; charset=utf-8

I do have a NiCad charger for a 9volt style.I have an old roomba which I think
has a rechargeable NiCad battery.I`ll check out radio shack for some ends to
make a cord from pack to power supply when picking up the replacement CMOS
battery.The person i got these from said they where on four years ago.Working on
this grid reminds me of my mirage keyboard,which thanks to i have a bunch of
floppys and my second computer that still uses them.Also when i picked these up
they came with some cables that are hooked in a way that seems both of these
were hooked up together then plugged in to a modem.Will replace the batteries
and try the OS boot disc and let you guys know what happens then.Whos got some
working 1550`s.






________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 6:42:14 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: My 1520 Status Update


Answer to Jimmy:
Do you have a battery charger? Also I have looked for stuff online but keep
finding dead sites.Do you know where i can get os boot floppys? Thanks for
dealing with a newbie .

The computer company went out of business 20 years ago. Pretty much all of the
sites that dealt with it are gone, so you aren't going to find anything except
forums like ours. As to a battery charger, there isn't one. The computer was
versatile in that it had a power supply and a battery pack, both the same size
and shape, that fit into the back slot. You could simply plug in the pwoer
supply and run the computer off of it that way, or you could plug in the battery
pack and then with a separate power cord coming form the pwoer supply, plug that
cord into the computer in the little power receptacle next to the power supply
slot. By doing that, you powered the computer with the power supply and charged
the battery pack at the same time. These days, any battery packs are likely to
have NiCads that are shot as they will be greater than 20 years of age. They
probably won't hold a charge. It is possible to rebuild them, but breaking into
those old units to replce the batteries can be a tall order. The battery packs
put out 16.25 volts at 3.7 amps. If you have a usable battery pack, you would
probably have to build a NiCad charger for it from scratch. That's a lot of work
to get that done, but if you're willing, that's likely how it would have to be
done. Shawn has already answered you about the OS boot disks.
Answer to Mark:

Hey, Phil,
This may be a stupid question, but did the 1550sx have a CMOS setup program
built in, or was it like the many early ATs that needed an external program
to do it? If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10, S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get you
into setup, maybe it needed one of those programs. I may have to break down
and stick a 5.25" drive into this 64-bit box I'm running here to recover
same, but if you need some of those programs, let me know, and I'll see what
I can dig up. I can't even remember now if my 1520 has that requirement.
:-)
Shawn is right, there is no CMOS setup program. What primitive features are
there is all hardwired into the BIOS chips.

Answer to Shawn:

Jimmy,
I going to assume that the computer you're using to surf the web on has a 3.5
floppy drive.  If you have a newer computer, it may not.  If you don't have
access to a computer with the web AND a 3.5 floopy, you might as well stop.
All,
My ultimate goal is to get the 1520 to boot from Compact Flash (CF).  Kevin
(geezer90) and another guy made some progress with their Grids and it motivated
me to continue.
The short version of the story: I still haven't gotten it to boot from Compact
Flash.
I will be very interested in how this turns out, Shawn.  I'm still trying to get
my 1520's and 1530's recognize a CDROM and JAZZ drive. It should do it, but for
some reason it's making the connection. Could be some of the components I've got
though.

Yahoo! Message number: 2176
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 05:10:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: My 1520 Status Update
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Jimmy,
Remember, the battery isn't needed, so I wouldn't spent the time and money on
that.
I would focus on getting the 1550 to boot up to a DOS command promt.
Good luck,
-Shawn




________________________________
From: Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 2:46:14 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: My 1520 Status Update




I do have a NiCad charger for a 9volt style.I have an old roomba which I think
has a rechargeable NiCad battery.I`ll check out radio shack for some ends to
make a cord from pack to power supply when picking up the replacement CMOS
battery.The person i got these from said they where on four years ago.Working on
this grid reminds me of my mirage keyboard,which thanks to i have a bunch of
floppys and my second computer that still uses them.Also when i picked these up
they came with some cables that are hooked in a way that seems both of these
were hooked up together then plugged in to a modem.Will replace the batteries
and try the OS boot disc and let you guys know what happens then.Whos got some
working 1550`s.   






________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@msn.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 6:42:14 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: My 1520 Status Update

 
Answer to Jimmy:
Do you have a battery charger? Also I have looked for stuff online but keep
finding dead sites.Do you know where i can get os boot floppys? Thanks for
dealing with a newbie .

The computer company went out of business 20 years ago. Pretty much all of the
sites that dealt with it are gone, so you aren't going to find anything except
forums like ours. As to a battery charger, there isn't one. The computer was
versatile in that it had a power supply and a battery pack, both the same size
and shape, that fit into the back slot. You could simply plug in the pwoer
supply and run the computer off of it that way, or you could plug in the battery
pack and then with a separate power cord coming form the pwoer supply, plug that
cord into the computer in the little power receptacle next to the power supply
slot. By doing that, you powered the computer with the power supply and charged
the battery pack at the same time. These days, any battery packs are likely to
have NiCads that are shot as they will be greater than 20 years of age. They
probably won't hold a charge. It is possible to rebuild them, but breaking into
those old units to replce the batteries can be a tall order. The battery packs
put out 16.25 volts at 3.7 amps. If you have a usable battery pack, you would
probably have to build a NiCad charger for it from scratch. That's a lot of work
to get that done, but if you're willing, that's likely how it would have to be
done. Shawn has already answered you about the OS boot disks.
Answer to Mark:

Hey, Phil,
This may be a stupid question, but did the 1550sx have a CMOS setup program
built in, or was it like the many early ATs that needed an external program
to do it? If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10, S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get you
into setup, maybe it needed one of those programs. I may have to break down
and stick a 5.25" drive into this 64-bit box I'm running here to recover
same, but if you need some of those programs, let me know, and I'll see what
I can dig up. I can't even remember now if my 1520 has that requirement.
:-)
Shawn is right, there is no CMOS setup program. What primitive features are
there is all hardwired into the BIOS chips.
 
Answer to Shawn:

Jimmy,
I going to assume that the computer you're using to surf the web on has a 3.5
floppy drive.  If you have a newer computer, it may not.  If you don't have
access to a computer with the web AND a 3.5 floopy, you might as well stop.
All,
My ultimate goal is to get the 1520 to boot from Compact Flash (CF).  Kevin
(geezer90) and another guy made some progress with their Grids and it motivated
me to continue.
The short version of the story: I still haven't gotten it to boot from Compact
Flash.
I will be very interested in how this turns out, Shawn.  I'm still trying to get
my 1520's and 1530's recognize a CDROM and JAZZ drive. It should do it, but for
some reason it's making the connection. Could be some of the components I've got
though.

Yahoo! Message number: 2177
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:10:59 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom

Oh, okay.  Poop.  Wish I had an EPROM burner and the knowledge to make 
changes.  Just for grins, though, I will get the conf1520.exe, if I can find 
it, and do some playing.  Wonder if something like Disk Manager or EZ-BIOS 
could allow you to use different drives.  Not perfect, but better than a 
poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shawnerz" <shawnerz@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 11:50 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom


Tom,
The early Grid's BIOS was not accessable like today's computer. On the Grid,
you cannot hit a key on boot and change the BIOS parameters. There is an
external config file that can be used (conf1520.exe and conf1550.exe) that 
can
be used to change a few default parameters (backlight, modem port, inverse 
or
normal display, and a few other options) but that's about it.
The true BIOS is 'hard coded' in to two EPROMS on the motherboard. You are
severely limited on internal hardware options on a Grid.
-Shawn


----- Original Message ----
From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 10:54:44 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure 
message
and dont had operation floppys

Hey, Phil,

This may be a stupid question, but did the 1550sx have a CMOS setup program
built in, or was it like the many early ATs that needed an external program
to do it? If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10, S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get you
into setup, maybe it needed one of those programs. I may have to break down
and stick a 5.25" drive into this 64-bit box I'm running here to recover
same, but if you need some of those programs, let me know, and I'll see what
I can dig up. I can't even remember now if my 1520 has that requirement.
:-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."


------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2178
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:14:03 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: My 1520 Status Update
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Thanks, J, but I'm Tom.  Hope to make my mark someday, though.  :-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: jeriddian
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 9:42 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: My 1520 Status Update





Answer to Jimmy:

Do you have a battery charger? Also I have looked for stuff online but keep finding dead sites.Do you know where i can get os boot floppys? Thanks for dealing with a newbie .

The computer company went out of business 20 years ago. Pretty much all of the sites that dealt with it are gone, so you aren't going to find anything except forums like ours. As to a battery charger, there isn't one. The computer was versatile in that it had a power supply and a battery pack, both the same size and shape, that fit into the back slot. You could simply plug in the pwoer supply and run the computer off of it that way, or you could plug in the battery pack and then with a separate power cord coming form the pwoer supply, plug that cord into the computer in the little power receptacle next to the power supply slot. By doing that, you powered the computer with the power supply and charged the battery pack at the same time. These days, any battery packs are likely to have NiCads that are shot as they will be greater than 20 years of age. They probably won't hold a charge. It is possible to rebuild them, but breaking into those old units to replce the batteries can be a tall order. The battery packs put out 16.25 volts at 3.7 amps. If you have a usable battery pack, you would probably have to build a NiCad charger for it from scratch. That's a lot of work to get that done, but if you're willing, that's likely how it would have to be done. Shawn has already answered you about the OS boot disks.

Answer to Mark:


Hey, Phil,

This may be a stupid question, but did the 1550sx have a CMOS setup program
built in, or was it like the many early ATs that needed an external program
to do it? If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10, S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get you
into setup, maybe it needed one of those programs. I may have to break down
and stick a 5.25" drive into this 64-bit box I'm running here to recover
same, but if you need some of those programs, let me know, and I'll see what
I can dig up. I can't even remember now if my 1520 has that requirement.
:-)

Shawn is right, there is no CMOS setup program. What primitive features are there is all hardwired into the BIOS chips.



Answer to Shawn:


Jimmy,
I going to assume that the computer you're using to surf the web on has a 3.5
floppy drive.  If you have a newer computer, it may not.  If you don't have
access to a computer with the web AND a 3.5 floopy, you might as well stop.

All,
My ultimate goal is to get the 1520 to boot from Compact Flash (CF).  Kevin
(geezer90) and another guy made some progress with their Grids and it motivated
me to continue.
The short version of the story: I still haven't gotten it to boot from Compact
Flash.

I will be very interested in how this turns out, Shawn.  I'm still trying to get my 1520's and 1530's recognize a CDROM and JAZZ drive. It should do it, but for some reason it's making the connection. Could be some of the components I've got though.

Yahoo! Message number: 2179
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:14:49 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: My 1520 Status Update

(Read the thread, Tom!)  Thanks, J.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 9:43 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: My 1520 Status Update


> Sorry, Tom,
> 
> I meant you, not Mark.
> 
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Answer to Jimmy:
>> 
>> Do you have a battery charger? Also I have looked for stuff online but
>> keep finding dead sites.Do you know where i can get os boot floppys?
>> Thanks for dealing with a newbie .
>> 
>> The computer company went out of business 20 years ago. Pretty much all
>> of the sites that dealt with it are gone, so you aren't going to find
>> anything except forums like ours. As to a battery charger, there isn't
>> one. The computer was versatile in that it had a power supply and a
>> battery pack, both the same size and shape, that fit into the back slot.
>> You could simply plug in the pwoer supply and run the computer off of it
>> that way, or you could plug in the battery pack and then with a separate
>> power cord coming form the pwoer supply, plug that cord into the
>> computer in the little power receptacle next to the power supply slot.
>> By doing that, you powered the computer with the power supply and
>> charged the battery pack at the same time. These days, any battery packs
>> are likely to have NiCads that are shot as they will be greater than 20
>> years of age. They probably won't hold a charge. It is possible to
>> rebuild them, but breaking into those old units to replce the batteries
>> can be a tall order. The battery packs put out 16.25 volts at 3.7 amps.
>> If you have a usable battery pack, you would probably have to build a
>> NiCad charger for it from scratch. That's a lot of work to get that
>> done, but if you're willing, that's likely how it would have to be done.
>> Shawn has already answered you about the OS boot disks.
>> 
>> Answer to Mark:
>> 
>> 
>> Hey, Phil,
>> 
>> This may be a stupid question, but did the 1550sx have a CMOS setup
>> program
>> built in, or was it like the many early ATs that needed an external
>> program
>> to do it? If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10, S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get
>> you
>> into setup, maybe it needed one of those programs. I may have to break
>> down
>> and stick a 5.25" drive into this 64-bit box I'm running here to recover
>> same, but if you need some of those programs, let me know, and I'll see
>> what
>> I can dig up. I can't even remember now if my 1520 has that requirement.
>> :-)
>> 
>> Shawn is right, there is no CMOS setup program. What primitive features
>> are there is all hardwired into the BIOS chips.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Answer to Shawn:
>> 
>> 
>> Jimmy,
>> I going to assume that the computer you're using to surf the web on has
>> a 3.5
>> floppy drive.  If you have a newer computer, it may not.  If you don't
>> have
>> access to a computer with the web AND a 3.5 floopy, you might as well
>> stop.
>> 
>> All,
>> My ultimate goal is to get the 1520 to boot from Compact Flash (CF). 
>> Kevin
>> (geezer90) and another guy made some progress with their Grids and it
>> motivated
>> me to continue.
>> The short version of the story: I still haven't gotten it to boot from
>> Compact
>> Flash.
>> 
>> I will be very interested in how this turns out, Shawn.  I'm still
>> trying to get my 1520's and 1530's recognize a CDROM and JAZZ drive. It
>> should do it, but for some reason it's making the connection. Could be
>> some of the components I've got though.
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2180
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:21:24 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom

Conf1520 is in the files section.  I found $50 EPROM programmers on ebay.  I ordered one and got it in from overseas a couple weeks ago.  I haven't had time to see how well the software works.
I don't know about ezbios or other things.  Unless it can overwrite the bios area in memory, I don't think it will work.  But, I've been wrong many times before.
-Shawn

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@sbcglobal.net>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:10:59 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom

Oh, okay.  Poop.  Wish I had an EPROM burner and the knowledge to make 
changes.  Just for grins, though, I will get the conf1520.exe, if I can find 
it, and do some playing.  Wonder if something like Disk Manager or EZ-BIOS 
could allow you to use different drives.  Not perfect, but better than a 
poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shawnerz" <shawnerz@yahoo.com>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 11:50 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom


Tom,
The early Grid's BIOS was not accessable like today's computer. On the Grid,
you cannot hit a key on boot and change the BIOS parameters. There is an
external config file that can be used (conf1520.exe and conf1550.exe) that 
can
be used to change a few default parameters (backlight, modem port, inverse 
or
normal display, and a few other options) but that's about it.
The true BIOS is 'hard coded' in to two EPROMS on the motherboard. You are
severely limited on internal hardware options on a Grid.
-Shawn


----- Original Message ----
From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@sbcglobal.net>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 10:54:44 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure 
message
and dont had operation floppys

Hey, Phil,

This may be a stupid question, but did the 1550sx have a CMOS setup program
built in, or was it like the many early ATs that needed an external program
to do it? If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10, S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get you
into setup, maybe it needed one of those programs. I may have to break down
and stick a 5.25" drive into this 64-bit box I'm running here to recover
same, but if you need some of those programs, let me know, and I'll see what
I can dig up. I can't even remember now if my 1520 has that requirement.
:-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."


------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2181
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:00:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Jimmy Gillis
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk
text/plain; charset=utf-8

So I fooled with the boot disk.Several attempts nothing,few more the it loaded

and said couldnt find driver and aborted the install.




________________________________
From: Shawnerz <shawnerz@...>
To: grid laptops <rugrid-laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 8:39:47 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk


Jimmy,
I going to assume that the computer you're using to surf the web on has a 3.5
floppy drive.  If you have a newer computer, it may not.  If you don't have
access to a computer with the web AND a 3.5 floopy, you might as well stop.

Put a blank disk in to the floppy drive.  The easiest way to make a boot disk is

to go to bootdisk.com.
Or, click on the link:
http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm

Select any of the the DOS images.  You can run 6.22 on your machine.  But DOS
5.0 is good for our purpose.
Save the file.  Then run the file and it tell it to extract to the floppy drive.

Once you have the boot disk, put it in the Grid.
Turn the Grid on.  Periodically press the 'f' key.  This tells the Grid to boot
from the floppy drive instead of the hard drive.  You might have to do this a
couple of times to time it right.  Also, if you get to the "Hard Disk Failure"
message and the computer doesn't do anything, hit ctrl-alt-del rather than power

cycle the computer.

The Grid should boot to DOS.  From there, you can get a general idea if the
computer is working.

Keep in mind that your computer was build in the early 1990's.  It has a 386SX
microprocessor.  There really isn't much that computer will do except run legacy

(old) software from that era.

Let us know what you find.
-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2182
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 17:55:26 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk
text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Did you hit the f key on boot?  Also what driver error mesdsage did you get?
Which version of dos did you use?
I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, but the more details you give us, the better we can help you.
-Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@yahoo.com>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:00:08 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk

So I fooled with the boot disk.Several attempts nothing,few more the it loaded

and said couldnt find driver and aborted the install.




________________________________
From: Shawnerz <shawnerz@yahoo.com>
To: grid laptops <rugrid-laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 8:39:47 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk

  
Jimmy,
I going to assume that the computer you're using to surf the web on has a 3.5 
floppy drive.  If you have a newer computer, it may not.  If you don't have 
access to a computer with the web AND a 3.5 floopy, you might as well stop.

Put a blank disk in to the floppy drive.  The easiest way to make a boot disk is 

to go to bootdisk.com.
Or, click on the link:
http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm

Select any of the the DOS images.  You can run 6.22 on your machine.  But DOS 
5.0 is good for our purpose.
Save the file.  Then run the file and it tell it to extract to the floppy drive.

Once you have the boot disk, put it in the Grid.
Turn the Grid on.  Periodically press the 'f' key.  This tells the Grid to boot 
from the floppy drive instead of the hard drive.  You might have to do this a 
couple of times to time it right.  Also, if you get to the "Hard Disk Failure" 
message and the computer doesn't do anything, hit ctrl-alt-del rather than power 

cycle the computer.

The Grid should boot to DOS.  From there, you can get a general idea if the 
computer is working.

Keep in mind that your computer was build in the early 1990's.  It has a 386SX 
microprocessor.  There really isn't much that computer will do except run legacy 

(old) software from that era.

Let us know what you find.
-Shawn

 


      

Yahoo! Message number: 2183
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 10:06:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Jimmy Gillis
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk
text/plain; charset=utf-8

yes i hit the f key on boot it took like 40 times before it did it.trying to get
it to do it again. CD-ROM Device Driver for IDE (four channels supported)(C)
Copyright Oak Technology Inc 1993-1996 Driver version :v340 device name :BANANA
No drives found,aborting installation   Device driver not found: `BANANA` no
valid CD ROM device drivers selected. A:/>






________________________________
From: "shawnerz@..." <shawnerz@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 9:55:26 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk


Did you hit the f key on boot?  Also what driver error mesdsage did you get?
Which version of dos did you use?
I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, but the more details you give us, the
better we can help you.
-Shawn
________________________________

From:  Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...>
Sender:  RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:00:08 -0800 (PST)
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo:  RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk

So I fooled with the boot disk.Several attempts nothing,few more the it loaded

and said couldnt find driver and aborted the install.




________________________________
From: Shawnerz <shawnerz@...>
To: grid laptops <rugrid-laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 8:39:47 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot  Disk


Jimmy,
I going to assume that the computer you're using to surf the web on has a 3.5
floppy drive.  If you have a newer computer, it may not.  If you don't have
access to a computer with the web AND a 3.5 floopy, you might as well stop.

Put a blank disk in to the floppy drive.  The easiest way to make a boot disk is

to go to bootdisk.com.
Or, click on the link:
http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm

Select any of the the DOS images.  You can run 6.22 on your machine.  But DOS
5.0 is good for our purpose.
Save the file.  Then run the file and it tell it to extract to the floppy drive.

Once you have the boot disk, put it in the Grid.
Turn the Grid on.  Periodically press the 'f' key.  This tells the Grid to boot
from the floppy drive instead of the hard drive.  You might have to do this a
couple of times to time it right.  Also, if you get to the "Hard Disk Failure"
message and the computer doesn't do anything, hit ctrl-alt-del rather than power

cycle the computer.

The Grid should boot to DOS.  From there, you can get a general idea if the
computer is working.

Keep in mind that your computer was build in the early 1990's.  It has a 386SX
microprocessor.  There really isn't much that computer will do except run legacy

(old) software from that era.

Let us know what you find.
-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2184
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 18:11:58 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk
text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 Hhhhmmm... I don't understand why its looking for a cdrom.
Let's take this off list.  Ema me directly at shawnerz at yahoo.com.
BTW: which version of dos did you use?
-----Original Message-----
From: Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@yahoo.com>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 10:06:59 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk

yes i hit the f key on boot it took like 40 times before it did it.trying to get 
it to do it again. CD-ROM Device Driver for IDE (four channels supported)(C) 
Copyright Oak Technology Inc 1993-1996 Driver version :v340 device name :BANANA 
No drives found,aborting installation   Device driver not found: `BANANA` no 
valid CD ROM device drivers selected. A:/> 






________________________________
From: "shawnerz@yahoo.com" <shawnerz@yahoo.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 9:55:26 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk

  
Did you hit the f key on boot?  Also what driver error mesdsage did you get?
Which version of dos did you use?
I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, but the more details you give us, the 
better we can help you.
-Shawn
________________________________

From:  Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@yahoo.com> 
Sender:  RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com 
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:00:08 -0800 (PST)
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo:  RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk

So I fooled with the boot disk.Several attempts nothing,few more the it loaded

and said couldnt find driver and aborted the install.




________________________________
From: Shawnerz <shawnerz@yahoo.com>
To: grid laptops <rugrid-laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 8:39:47 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot  Disk

  
Jimmy,
I going to assume that the computer you're using to surf the web on has a 3.5 
floppy drive.  If you have a newer computer, it may not.  If you don't have 
access to a computer with the web AND a 3.5 floopy, you might as well stop.

Put a blank disk in to the floppy drive.  The easiest way to make a boot disk is 

to go to bootdisk.com.
Or, click on the link:
http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm

Select any of the the DOS images.  You can run 6.22 on your machine.  But DOS 
5.0 is good for our purpose.
Save the file.  Then run the file and it tell it to extract to the floppy drive.

Once you have the boot disk, put it in the Grid.
Turn the Grid on.  Periodically press the 'f' key.  This tells the Grid to boot 
from the floppy drive instead of the hard drive.  You might have to do this a 
couple of times to time it right.  Also, if you get to the "Hard Disk Failure" 
message and the computer doesn't do anything, hit ctrl-alt-del rather than power 

cycle the computer.

The Grid should boot to DOS.  From there, you can get a general idea if the 
computer is working.

Keep in mind that your computer was build in the early 1990's.  It has a 386SX 
microprocessor.  There really isn't much that computer will do except run legacy 

(old) software from that era.

Let us know what you find.
-Shawn


 


      

Yahoo! Message number: 2185
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 13:28:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
text/plain; charset=utf-8

 There are a bunch of 1520 files in the files section of this site. Look in the
Grid1520 folder >15xxunzp> and you will find conf1520.exe and others.
 I dumped most of my archived Grid files in there some years back in one shot
and took the site down for a while. I imagine Shawn is still p-offed with me for
it.
 L



>
>From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@...>
>To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 10:10:59 AM
>Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
>
>
>Oh, okay.  Poop.  Wish I had an EPROM burner and the knowledge to make
>changes.  Just for grins, though, I will get the conf1520.exe, if I can find
>it, and do some playing.  Wonder if something like Disk Manager or EZ-BIOS
>could allow you to use different drives.  Not perfect, but better than a
>poke in the eye with a sharp stick.
>
>-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Shawnerz" <shawnerz@...>
>To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 11:50 AM
>Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
>
>Tom,
>The early Grid's BIOS was not accessable like today's computer. On the Grid,
>you cannot hit a key on boot and change the BIOS parameters. There is an
>external config file that can be used (conf1520.exe and conf1550.exe) that
>can
>be used to change a few default parameters (backlight, modem port, inverse
>or
>normal display, and a few other options) but that's about it.
>The true BIOS is 'hard coded' in to two EPROMS on the motherboard. You are
>severely limited on internal hardware options on a Grid.
>-Shawn
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@sbcglobal.net>
>To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 10:54:44 AM
>Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure
>message
>and dont had operation floppys
>
>Hey, Phil,
>
>This may be a stupid question, but did the 1550sx have a CMOS setup program
>built in, or was it like the many early ATs that needed an external program
>to do it? If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10, S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get you
>into setup, maybe it needed one of those programs. I may have to break down
>and stick a 5.25" drive into this 64-bit box I'm running here to recover
>same, but if you need some of those programs, let me know, and I'll see what
>I can dig up. I can't even remember now if my 1520 has that requirement.
>:-)
>
>-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>"She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."
>
>------------------------------------
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2186
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 05:36:53 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Boot Disk

If you got that far, what you are looking at is the standard CDROM driver loading software originally created at Oak Technology back then. That means that you are running the Config.sys file, which means you have booted up. The reason the driver fails is because the external CDROM drive for which the software was intended is not connected up. Thus no valid CDROM device drivers are loaded as no devices can be located. Don't worry about this. It's just a program that the original owner put into the config.sys file to connect a CDROM. Since it can't find the CDROM, it will just shut down and abort. Then the computer will go on the the A: prompt. So the computer will run, but as you noted, cannot see the hard drive.

Shawn is right in that you don't need the battery to run the computer. But you might well need the battery to access the hard drive. This is certainly the case in the 1520's and 1530's in that certain parameters defining the hard drive are stored in the CMOS circuits. If the battery does not power up those circuits, it can't tell the computer what kind of hard drive is there, and then the computer won't be able to recognize it. Then it will simply ignore it as if it wasn't there. It's probably the same with the 1550sx. So I think replaceing the CMOS battery may well allow you to see the hard drive, and it's a relatively cheap fix.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...> wrote:
>
> yes i hit the f key on boot it took like 40 times before it did it.trying to get
> it to do it again. CD-ROM Device Driver for IDE (four channels supported)(C)
> Copyright Oak Technology Inc 1993-1996 Driver version :v340 device name :BANANA
> No drives found,aborting installation   Device driver not found: `BANANA` no
> valid CD ROM device drivers selected. A:/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "shawnerz@..." <shawnerz@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 9:55:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk
>
>
> Did you hit the f key on boot?  Also what driver error mesdsage did you get?
> Which version of dos did you use?
> I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, but the more details you give us, the
> better we can help you.
> -Shawn
> ________________________________
>
> From:  Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...>
> Sender:  RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:00:08 -0800 (PST)
> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@...m>
> ReplyTo:  RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk
>
> So I fooled with the boot disk.Several attempts nothing,few more the it loaded
>
> and said couldnt find driver and aborted the install.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Shawnerz <shawnerz@...>
> To: grid laptops <rugrid-laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 8:39:47 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot  Disk
>
>
> Jimmy,
> I going to assume that the computer you're using to surf the web on has a 3.5
> floppy drive.  If you have a newer computer, it may not.  If you don't have
> access to a computer with the web AND a 3.5 floopy, you might as well stop.
>
> Put a blank disk in to the floppy drive.  The easiest way to make a boot disk is
>
> to go to bootdisk.com.
> Or, click on the link:
> http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm
>
> Select any of the the DOS images.  You can run 6.22 on your machine.  But DOS
> 5.0 is good for our purpose.
> Save the file.  Then run the file and it tell it to extract to the floppy drive.
>
> Once you have the boot disk, put it in the Grid.
> Turn the Grid on.  Periodically press the 'f' key.  This tells the Grid to boot
> from the floppy drive instead of the hard drive.  You might have to do this a
> couple of times to time it right.  Also, if you get to the "Hard Disk Failure"
> message and the computer doesn't do anything, hit ctrl-alt-del rather than power
>
> cycle the computer.
>
> The Grid should boot to DOS.  From there, you can get a general idea if the
> computer is working.
>
> Keep in mind that your computer was build in the early 1990's.  It has a 386SX
> microprocessor.  There really isn't much that computer will do except run legacy
>
> (old) software from that era.
>
> Let us know what you find.
> -Shawn
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2187
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 23:12:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Jimmy Gillis
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Boot Disk
text/plain; charset=utf-8

Cool!Bad news for the second  though it was making some grinding noises aand i
took out the floppy/hard drive the hard drive was rattling. It made a grinding
noise so i opened it and there was a sensor from the bottom arm laying in
there.So I take it that the hard drive  is done in my second 1550.Says Conner on
it.The first 1550 did boot into that,but I shut it down,tried again but couldnt
get it to boot again. it did take me about 20mins of control alt del f to get it
to boot.





________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 9:36:53 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Boot Disk


If you got that far, what you are looking at is the standard CDROM driver
loading software originally created at Oak Technology back then. That means that
you are running the Config.sys file, which means you have booted up. The reason
the driver fails is because the external CDROM drive for which the software was
intended is not connected up. Thus no valid CDROM device drivers are loaded as
no devices can be located. Don't worry about this. It's just a program that the
original owner put into the config.sys file to connect a CDROM. Since it can't
find the CDROM, it will just shut down and abort. Then the computer will go on
the the A: prompt. So the computer will run, but as you noted, cannot see the
hard drive.

Shawn is right in that you don't need the battery to run the computer. But you
might well need the battery to access the hard drive. This is certainly the case
in the 1520's and 1530's in that certain parameters defining the hard drive are
stored in the CMOS circuits. If the battery does not power up those circuits, it
can't tell the computer what kind of hard drive is there, and then the computer
won't be able to recognize it. Then it will simply ignore it as if it wasn't
there. It's probably the same with the 1550sx. So I think replaceing the CMOS
battery may well allow you to see the hard drive, and it's a relatively cheap
fix.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@...m, Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...> wrote:
>
> yes i hit the f key on boot it took like 40 times before it did it.trying to
>get
>
> it to do it again. CD-ROM Device Driver for IDE (four channels supported)(C)
> Copyright Oak Technology Inc 1993-1996 Driver version :v340 device name :BANANA
>
> No drives found,aborting installation   Device driver not found: `BANANA` no
> valid CD ROM device drivers selected. A:/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "shawnerz@..." <shawnerz@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 9:55:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk
>
>
> Did you hit the f key on boot?  Also what driver error mesdsage did you get?
> Which version of dos did you use?
> I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, but the more details you give us, the
> better we can help you.
> -Shawn
> ________________________________
>
> From:  Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...>
> Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:00:08 -0800 (PST)
> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> ReplyTo: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot Disk
>
> So I fooled with the boot disk.Several attempts nothing,few more the it loaded
>
> and said couldnt find driver and aborted the install.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Shawnerz <shawnerz@...>
> To: grid laptops <rugrid-laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 8:39:47 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Boot  Disk
>
>
> Jimmy,
> I going to assume that the computer you're using to surf the web on has a 3.5
> floppy drive.  If you have a newer computer, it may not.  If you don't have
> access to a computer with the web AND a 3.5 floopy, you might as well stop.
>
> Put a blank disk in to the floppy drive.  The easiest way to make a boot disk
>is
>
>
> to go to bootdisk.com.
> Or, click on the link:
> http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm
> 
> Select any of the the DOS images.  You can run 6.22 on your machine.  But DOS
> 5.0 is good for our purpose.
> Save the file.  Then run the file and it tell it to extract to the floppy
>drive.
>
> Once you have the boot disk, put it in the Grid.
> Turn the Grid on.  Periodically press the 'f' key.  This tells the Grid to boot
>
> from the floppy drive instead of the hard drive.  You might have to do this a
> couple of times to time it right.  Also, if you get to the "Hard Disk Failure"

> message and the computer doesn't do anything, hit ctrl-alt-del rather than
>power
>
>
> cycle the computer.
>
> The Grid should boot to DOS.  From there, you can get a general idea if the
> computer is working.
>
> Keep in mind that your computer was build in the early 1990's.  It has a 386SX

> microprocessor.  There really isn't much that computer will do except run
>legacy
>
>
> (old) software from that era.
>
> Let us know what you find.
> -Shawn
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2188
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 10:10:33 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom

Cool!  I'll go get Conf1520 at some point, then.  Thanks to whoever 
maintains the files section for doing so.  Once I get around to diving into 
the ol' darlin' one of these days, it makes it easy to know what to expect 
and where.

EZ-BIOS basically shows the hard drive as a particular type, accepted by the 
BIOS.  At least, it's how I understand it.  IIRC, BIOS has a bit of RAM that 
it uses for certain things, but overlays like EZ-BIOS can wedge themselves 
in there, somehow, and fool the BIOS into accepting drives that are not 
listed in its drive table.  There are problems with this, but they're not 
usually that bad.  Things like the early Norton Utilities will report one 
type of drive, when another is actually used, and if you have an actual 
drive spoofing the BIOS as a smaller one, you get things like what occurred 
to me, back in the XT days.  I had a Micropolis drive that actually 
formatted out to 68 CMOS megabytes, but the BIOS thought it was only 62. 
So, Norton reported a 68MB partition on a 62MB drive.  :-)  And, no data 
compression was involved, here.  It was just BIOS being spoofed.  Other than 
that, though, it worked flawlessly.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <shawnerz@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom


> Conf1520 is in the files section.  I found $50 EPROM programmers on ebay. 
> I ordered one and got it in from overseas a couple weeks ago.  I haven't 
> had time to see how well the software works.
> I don't know about ezbios or other things.  Unless it can overwrite the 
> bios area in memory, I don't think it will work.  But, I've been wrong 
> many times before.
> -Shawn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...>
> Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:10:59
> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
>
> Oh, okay.  Poop.  Wish I had an EPROM burner and the knowledge to make
> changes.  Just for grins, though, I will get the conf1520.exe, if I can 
> find
> it, and do some playing.  Wonder if something like Disk Manager or EZ-BIOS
> could allow you to use different drives.  Not perfect, but better than a
> poke in the eye with a sharp stick.
>
> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Shawnerz" <shawnerz@...>
> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 11:50 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
>
>
> Tom,
> The early Grid's BIOS was not accessable like today's computer. On the 
> Grid,
> you cannot hit a key on boot and change the BIOS parameters. There is an
> external config file that can be used (conf1520.exe and conf1550.exe) that
> can
> be used to change a few default parameters (backlight, modem port, inverse
> or
> normal display, and a few other options) but that's about it.
> The true BIOS is 'hard coded' in to two EPROMS on the motherboard. You are
> severely limited on internal hardware options on a Grid.
> -Shawn
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 10:54:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure
> message
> and dont had operation floppys
>
> Hey, Phil,
>
> This may be a stupid question, but did the 1550sx have a CMOS setup 
> program
> built in, or was it like the many early ATs that needed an external 
> program
> to do it? If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10, S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get 
> you
> into setup, maybe it needed one of those programs. I may have to break 
> down
> and stick a 5.25" drive into this 64-bit box I'm running here to recover
> same, but if you need some of those programs, let me know, and I'll see 
> what
> I can dig up. I can't even remember now if my 1520 has that requirement.
> :-)
>
> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> "She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2189
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 10:12:06 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thanks, L.  I'll sure go in there and snarf up what I can.  :-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Walker
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom





 There are a bunch of 1520 files in the files section of this site. Look in the Grid1520 folder >15xxunzp> and you will find conf1520.exe and others.
 I dumped most of my archived Grid files in there some years back in one shot and took the site down for a while. I imagine Shawn is still p-offed with me for it.
 L




  From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@...>
  To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 10:10:59 AM
  Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom


  Oh, okay. Poop. Wish I had an EPROM burner and the knowledge to make
  changes. Just for grins, though, I will get the conf1520.exe, if I can find
  it, and do some playing. Wonder if something like Disk Manager or EZ-BIOS
  could allow you to use different drives. Not perfect, but better than a
  poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

  -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
  "She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Shawnerz" <shawnerz@...m>
  To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 11:50 AM
  Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom

  Tom,
  The early Grid's BIOS was not accessable like today's computer. On the Grid,
  you cannot hit a key on boot and change the BIOS parameters. There is an
  external config file that can be used (conf1520.exe and conf1550.exe) that
  can
  be used to change a few default parameters (backlight, modem port, inverse
  or
  normal display, and a few other options) but that's about it.
  The true BIOS is 'hard coded' in to two EPROMS on the motherboard. You are
  severely limited on internal hardware options on a Grid.
  -Shawn

  ----- Original Message ----
  From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@...>
  To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 10:54:44 AM
  Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure
  message
  and dont had operation floppys

  Hey, Phil,

  This may be a stupid question, but did the 1550sx have a CMOS setup program
  built in, or was it like the many early ATs that needed an external program
  to do it? If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10, S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get you
  into setup, maybe it needed one of those programs. I may have to break down
  and stick a 5.25" drive into this 64-bit box I'm running here to recover
  same, but if you need some of those programs, let me know, and I'll see what
  I can dig up. I can't even remember now if my 1520 has that requirement.
  :-)

  -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
  "She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."

  ------------------------------------

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2190
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:03:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Jimmy Gillis
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
text/plain; charset=utf-8

I booted up DOS 5.0 on my 1550 got an A prompt, then entered DIR ran some more
then got another A prompt.What do I type in now?





________________________________
From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 15, 2011 7:12:06 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom



Thanks, L.  I'll  sure go in there and snarf up what I can.  :-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford,  N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.   Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence  Walker
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom

 There  are a bunch of 1520 files in the files section of this site. Look in the
Grid1520 folder >15xxunzp> and you will find conf1520.exe and  others.
 I dumped most of my archived Grid files in there some years  back in one shot
and took the site down for a while. I imagine Shawn is still  p-offed with me
for it.
 L



>
>From: Tom    Rutherford <n8euj@sbcglobal.net>
>To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 10:10:59    AM
>Subject: Re:    [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
>
>
>Oh, okay. Poop. Wish I had an EPROM burner and the knowledge to make
>changes. Just for grins, though, I will get the conf1520.exe, if I can    find
>it, and do some playing. Wonder if something like Disk Manager or    EZ-BIOS
>could allow you to use different drives. Not perfect, but better    than a
>poke in the eye with a sharp stick.
>
>-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford,    N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>"She said it was either her or the ham radio.    Over."
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Shawnerz" <shawnerz@...>
>To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent:    Thursday, January 13, 2011 11:50 AM
>Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to    Tom
>
>Tom,
>The early Grid's BIOS was not accessable like today's    computer. On the Grid,
>you cannot hit a key on boot and change the BIOS    parameters. There is an
>external config file that can be used (conf1520.exe    and conf1550.exe) that
>can
>be used to change a few default parameters    (backlight, modem port, inverse
>or
>normal display, and a few other    options) but that's about it.
>The true BIOS is 'hard coded' in to two    EPROMS on the motherboard. You are
>severely limited on internal hardware    options on a Grid.
>-Shawn
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Tom    Rutherford <n8euj@...>
>To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
>Sent:    Thu, January 13, 2011 10:54:44 AM
>Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two    1550sx have hard disk failure
>message
>and dont had operation    floppys
>
>Hey, Phil,
>
>This may be a stupid question, but did the    1550sx have a CMOS setup program
>built in, or was it like the many early    ATs that needed an external program
>to do it? If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10,    S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get you
>into setup, maybe it needed one of    those programs. I may have to break down
>and stick a 5.25" drive into this    64-bit box I'm running here to recover
>same, but if you need some of those    programs, let me know, and I'll see what
>I can dig up. I can't even    remember now if my 1520 has that requirement.
>:-)
>
>-- 73 DE Tom    Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>"She said it was either her or the ham radio.    Over."
>
>------------------------------------
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups    Links
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2191
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 05:01:23 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Boot Disk

Yes. The early GRID computers only used Conner Hard Drives. I think they had a special deal to get them cheaper or something like that. The Conners were around until the early 1990's or so until they got bought out by SeaGate. Unfortunately these old Conners are a weak part of the computer's They tend to go bad after a while, and the one you describe sounds very typical of how they do go bad, so I'm not surprised.

If you managed to get the second one to boot into the hard drive momentarily, and the it wouldn't do it again, that is actually promising. It means the hard drive is still possibly working. The problem is what is cuaing it not to recognize in the first palce. IT could be the CMOS battery as sometimes, the circuits might have just barely enough juice to let the computer read them. But it could be the Hard Drive itself too starting to fail. The only goor way to tell is to subsitute another Conner hard drive in there which the computer will recognize. The trick, of course, is finding another one.

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...> wrote:
>
> Cool!Bad news for the second  though it was making some grinding noises aand i
> took out the floppy/hard drive the hard drive was rattling. It made a grinding
> noise so i opened it and there was a sensor from the bottom arm laying in
> there.So I take it that the hard drive  is done in my second 1550.Says Conner on
> it.The first 1550 did boot into that,but I shut it down,tried again but couldnt
> get it to boot again. it did take me about 20mins of control alt del f to get it
> to boot.

Yahoo! Message number: 2192
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 05:04:07 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Response to Tom

Hmmmm..............DIR should have brought up the directory of the disk in the Floppy Drive. Does it keep doing that every time? Personally I would go to DOS 6.22, not DOS 5.0 which is a fairly unstable version, though not as bad as DOS 4.0 was. The original DOS 3.3 was good.

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...> wrote:
>
> I booted up DOS 5.0 on my 1550 got an A prompt, then entered DIR ran some more
> then got another A prompt.What do I type in now?

Yahoo! Message number: 2193
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 00:49:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Jimmy Gillis
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Boot Disk
text/plain; charset=utf-8

I found some conner hardrives for 79.00.





________________________________
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 15, 2011 9:01:23 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Boot Disk


Yes. The early GRID computers only used Conner Hard Drives. I think they had a
special deal to get them cheaper or something like that. The Conners were around
until the early 1990's or so until they got bought out by SeaGate. Unfortunately
these old Conners are a weak part of the computer's They tend to go bad after a
while, and the one you describe sounds very typical of how they do go bad, so
I'm not surprised.

If you managed to get the second one to boot into the hard drive momentarily,
and the it wouldn't do it again, that is actually promising. It means the hard
drive is still possibly working. The problem is what is cuaing it not to
recognize in the first palce. IT could be the CMOS battery as sometimes, the
circuits might have just barely enough juice to let the computer read them. But
it could be the Hard Drive itself too starting to fail. The only goor way to
tell is to subsitute another Conner hard drive in there which the computer will
recognize. The trick, of course, is finding another one.

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...> wrote:
>
> Cool!Bad news for the second  though it was making some grinding noises aand i

> took out the floppy/hard drive the hard drive was rattling. It made a grinding

> noise so i opened it and there was a sensor from the bottom arm laying in
> there.So I take it that the hard drive  is done in my second 1550.Says Conner
>on
>
> it.The first 1550 did boot into that,but I shut it down,tried again but couldnt
>
> get it to boot again. it did take me about 20mins of control alt del f to get
>it
>
> to boot.

Yahoo! Message number: 2194
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:26:43 -0000
From: "Andrea"
Subject: Robocop 2

Hallo, looking Robocop2 I found a GRidCase 1530
Andrea
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7457814@N06/sets/

Yahoo! Message number: 2195
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 14:44:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Robocop 2

Andrea,
The picture from Robocop is very nice.  I have not seen that movie.
But there is something even more interesting in your photos.  I saw your photos
of the SIMM to SIPP conversion.
What the conversion successful?
What did you use for pins to put on the SIMM?
I tried to do a SIMM to SIPP conversion, but the converted SIMM was too tall. 
The cover would not close because the SIMM was too high.  Did you have the same
problem?  If so, how did you solve it?
Thank you,
-Shawn



----- Original Message ----
From: Andrea <zentaro.cane@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 16, 2011 1:26:43 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Robocop 2

Hallo, looking Robocop2 I found a GRidCase 1530
Andrea
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7457814@N06/sets/




------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2196
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 15:11:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
text/plain; charset=utf-8

 I had brought up the question of using overlays many years ago on this forum,
but it was discounted for some reason. I'd used several of them to  overcome the
problem of the OS hdd partition size limitation. They are installed before the
OS takes over. I also mentioned that, just as video cards are hard-wired to
install graphic abilities before a computer boots, the Grid SCSI module inserts
itself in a particular region of  memory, as I imagine other modules such as the
VGA and Network ones do. My documentation on the SCSI module even gave the
memory addresses where the info was stored.. I still can't understand why the
BIOS can't be spoofed this way and address memory locations can't be placed in
the BIOS. Of course in those units which use the RTC chip battery, containing
the CMOS there could be other problems. Many Grid users used to use the EProms
which boot before accessing the drives to contain the OS or other modifications.
That would be one obvious place to have the overlay install itself rather than
having to remove the BIOS chips and replace them with new ones which has been
the suggested method for using other hdd replacement, a very involved and
difficult process. Or of course the very easy usual method of installing the
overlay using fdds before loading the OS.

Lawrence Walker



>
>From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@...>
>To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Sat, January 15, 2011 9:10:33 AM
>Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
>
>
>Cool!  I'll go get Conf1520 at some point, then.  Thanks to whoever
>maintains the files section for doing so.  Once I get around to diving into
>the ol' darlin' one of these days, it makes it easy to know what to expect
>and where.
>
>EZ-BIOS basically shows the hard drive as a particular type, accepted by the
>BIOS.  At least, it's how I understand it.  IIRC, BIOS has a bit of RAM that
>it uses for certain things, but overlays like EZ-BIOS can wedge themselves
>in there, somehow, and fool the BIOS into accepting drives that are not
>listed in its drive table.  There are problems with this, but they're not
>usually that bad.  Things like the early Norton Utilities will report one
>type of drive, when another is actually used, and if you have an actual
>drive spoofing the BIOS as a smaller one, you get things like what occurred
>to me, back in the XT days.  I had a Micropolis drive that actually
>formatted out to 68 CMOS megabytes, but the BIOS thought it was only 62.
>So, Norton reported a 68MB partition on a 62MB drive.  :-)  And, no data
>compression was involved, here.  It was just BIOS being spoofed.  Other than
>that, though, it worked flawlessly.
>
>-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <shawnerz@yahoo.com>
>To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 11:21 AM
>Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
>
>> Conf1520 is in the files section.  I found $50 EPROM programmers on ebay.
>> I ordered one and got it in from overseas a couple weeks ago.  I haven't
>> had time to see how well the software works.
>> I don't know about ezbios or other things.  Unless it can overwrite the
>> bios area in memory, I don't think it will work.  But, I've been wrong
>> many times before.
>> -Shawn
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...>
>> Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:10:59
>> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
>> Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
>>
>> Oh, okay.  Poop.  Wish I had an EPROM burner and the knowledge to make
>> changes.  Just for grins, though, I will get the conf1520.exe, if I can
>> find
>> it, and do some playing.  Wonder if something like Disk Manager or EZ-BIOS
>> could allow you to use different drives.  Not perfect, but better than a
>> poke in the eye with a sharp stick.
>>
>> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Shawnerz" <shawnerz@...>
>> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 11:50 AM
>> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
>>
>>
>> Tom,
>> The early Grid's BIOS was not accessable like today's computer. On the
>> Grid,
>> you cannot hit a key on boot and change the BIOS parameters. There is an
>> external config file that can be used (conf1520.exe and conf1550.exe) that
>> can
>> be used to change a few default parameters (backlight, modem port, inverse
>> or
>> normal display, and a few other options) but that's about it.
>> The true BIOS is 'hard coded' in to two EPROMS on the motherboard. You are
>> severely limited on internal hardware options on a Grid.
>> -Shawn
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@sbcglobal.net>
>> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 10:54:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure
>> message
>> and dont had operation floppys
>>
>> Hey, Phil,
>>
>> This may be a stupid question, but did the 1550sx have a CMOS setup
>> program
>> built in, or was it like the many early ATs that needed an external
>> program
>> to do it? If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10, S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get
>> you
>> into setup, maybe it needed one of those programs. I may have to break
>> down
>> and stick a 5.25" drive into this 64-bit box I'm running here to recover
>> same, but if you need some of those programs, let me know, and I'll see
>> what
>> I can dig up. I can't even remember now if my 1520 has that requirement.
>> :-)
>>
>> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>> "She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2197
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 23:57:15 -0000
From: "Andrea"
Subject: Re: Robocop 2

Hallo Shawn, I'm still working on the memory upgrade for Grid, at the moment the system make the POST and recognizes the new size but  after few minutes the computer freeze, also Memtest show a lot of errors. I'm not sure, probably parity sticks are not perfectly compatible with non parity system or the timings are differents.
I have not tried to remove the parity chip

For memory module I used low profile 1meg memory sticks 80ns with parity, I had to cut the two outer parts to fit in the sipp slots.(I checked the cut parts are not being used for a connection)
The easiest way to solder the pins perfectly is to take a 256k Sipp module and solder the 30 pins on the Simm and cut simultaneously all 30 pins with a cutter. Pictures can explain better than my English.
Andrea




--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Andrea,
> The picture from Robocop is very nice.  I have not seen that movie.
> But there is something even more interesting in your photos.  I saw your photos
> of the SIMM to SIPP conversion.
> What the conversion successful?
> What did you use for pins to put on the SIMM?
> I tried to do a SIMM to SIPP conversion, but the converted SIMM was too tall. 
> The cover would not close because the SIMM was too high.  Did you have the same
> problem?  If so, how did you solve it?
> Thank you,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Andrea <zentaro.cane@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, January 16, 2011 1:26:43 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Robocop 2
>
> Hallo, looking Robocop2 I found a GRidCase 1530
> Andrea
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/7457814@N06/sets/
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2198
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 20:19:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Robocop 2

Andrea,
Your English is very good.  I understand what you are saying.

I don't think the Grids use parity memory.  I think it is non-parity.  Maybe 
that is the problem?

Thank you for the information.
-Shawn





----- Original Message ----
From: Andrea <zentaro.cane@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 16, 2011 6:57:15 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Robocop 2

Hallo Shawn, I'm still working on the memory upgrade for Grid, at the moment the 
system make the POST and recognizes the new size but  after few minutes the 
computer freeze, also Memtest show a lot of errors. I'm not sure, probably 
parity sticks are not perfectly compatible with non parity system or the timings 
are differents.
I have not tried to remove the parity chip

For memory module I used low profile 1meg memory sticks 80ns with parity, I had 
to cut the two outer parts to fit in the sipp slots.(I checked the cut parts are 
not being used for a connection) 

The easiest way to solder the pins perfectly is to take a 256k Sipp module and 
solder the 30 pins on the Simm and cut simultaneously all 30 pins with a cutter. 
Pictures can explain better than my English.
Andrea




--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Andrea,
> The picture from Robocop is very nice.  I have not seen that movie.
> But there is something even more interesting in your photos.  I saw your photos 
>
> of the SIMM to SIPP conversion.
> What the conversion successful?
> What did you use for pins to put on the SIMM?
> I tried to do a SIMM to SIPP conversion, but the converted SIMM was too tall.  

> The cover would not close because the SIMM was too high.  Did you have the same 
>
> problem?  If so, how did you solve it?
> Thank you,
> -Shawn
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Andrea <zentaro.cane@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, January 16, 2011 1:26:43 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Robocop 2
> 
> Hallo, looking Robocop2 I found a GRidCase 1530
> Andrea
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/7457814@N06/sets/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>




------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2199
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 20:13:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Overlays and stuff
text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hey Lawrence,
Using an overlay wasn't discounted.  It just has never been tried.If someone has 
one, please use it.  

I don't know what program to use or how to use it.

Personally, I don't know how it would work.  It looks like, on boot, the BIOS 
code looks for a hard drive to match what's in the table.  If a matching drive 
isn't there, the BIOS code will never look for a hard drive (until the next 
reboot, that is).
So, the question I have is, if the overlay is stored on the hard drive, how can 
the overlay work if it can never be read from hard drive?
But, I've been wrong many times before.  Maybe the BIOS doesn't behave the way I 
think.  Feel free to try an overlay program.
-Shawn




________________________________
From: Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 16, 2011 6:11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom

  


 I had brought up the question of using overlays many years ago on this forum, 
but it was discounted for some reason. I'd used several of them to  overcome the 
problem of the OS hdd partition size limitation. They are installed before the 
OS takes over. I also mentioned that, just as video cards are hard-wired to 
install graphic abilities before a computer boots, the Grid SCSI module inserts 
itself in a particular region of  memory, as I imagine other modules such as the 
VGA and Network ones do. My documentation on the SCSI module even gave the 
memory addresses where the info was stored.. I still can't understand why the 
BIOS can't be spoofed this way and address memory locations can't be placed in 
the BIOS. Of course in those units which use the RTC chip battery, containing 
the CMOS  there could be other problems. Many Grid users used to use the EProms 
which boot before accessing the drives to contain the OS or other modifications. 
That would be one obvious place to have the overlay install itself rather than 
having to remove the BIOS chips and replace them with new ones which has been 
the suggested method for using other hdd replacement, a very involved and 
difficult process. Or of course the very easy usual method of installing the 
overlay using fdds before loading the OS.

Lawrence Walker

Yahoo! Message number: 2200
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 05:12:02 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Boot Disk

That's pretty cheap, considering. However, not ALL Conner drives can be used in an old GRiD.

First they have to have the same physical configuration of the pins in the back. These hard drives were different in that the bank of 40 pins to connect the signal lines was located roughly in the middle of the back of the drive. That changed very quickly in the early 1990's or so, I think, to the present IDE configuration where the signal pins are all the way to the side of the back of the drive. So you have to make sure the hard drive will fit the back plane of the computer.

Second, you probably will not be able to use a hard drive with more than 512 MB on it. I believe this is due to the limitations of the OS's at the time, in that they can't recognize higher than that.

Thirdly, and most important, the GRiD will only recognize the hard drives whose information is hard wired into the BIOS. Right now, I don't know exactly which ones those are, but I will bet they aren't any different from the ones which are hard coded into the BIOS's of the 1520's and 1530's. That would be the 20 MB CP3024, the 40 MB CP3044, and the 100 MB CP 30104. Trying another drive, even a Conner won't get you anywhere unless you alter the BIOS code (Something Shawn and I have successfully done BTW), and burn new BIOS chips for the computer.

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@...> wrote:
>
> I found some conner hardrives for 79.00.
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, January 15, 2011 9:01:23 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Boot Disk
>
>
> Yes. The early GRID computers only used Conner Hard Drives. I think they had a
> special deal to get them cheaper or something like that. The Conners were around
> until the early 1990's or so until they got bought out by SeaGate. Unfortunately
> these old Conners are a weak part of the computer's They tend to go bad after a
> while, and the one you describe sounds very typical of how they do go bad, so
> I'm not surprised.
>
> If you managed to get the second one to boot into the hard drive momentarily,
> and the it wouldn't do it again, that is actually promising. It means the hard
> drive is still possibly working. The problem is what is cuaing it not to
> recognize in the first palce. IT could be the CMOS battery as sometimes, the
> circuits might have just barely enough juice to let the computer read them. But
> it could be the Hard Drive itself too starting to fail. The only goor way to
> tell is to subsitute another Conner hard drive in there which the computer will
> recognize. The trick, of course, is finding another one.
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Jimmy Gillis <gillis123451599@> wrote:
> >
> > Cool!Bad news for the second  though it was making some grinding noises aand i
>
> > took out the floppy/hard drive the hard drive was rattling. It made a grinding
>
> > noise so i opened it and there was a sensor from the bottom arm laying in
> > there.So I take it that the hard drive  is done in my second 1550.Says Conner
> >on
> >
> > it.The first 1550 did boot into that,but I shut it down,tried again but couldnt
> >
> > get it to boot again. it did take me about 20mins of control alt del f to get
> >it
> >
> > to boot.
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2201
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 05:23:42 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Robocop 2

They do make low profile SIMM's which is what we are looking for. The SIPP's came in high profle and low profile also. Low profile sticks were no higher than 5/8", and usually only 1/2". There are some SIMM's like that. I have tried both parity and non-parity sticks in my computers, and actually both seem to work fine. The computer just ignores the parity check. But the timing is another issue. The speed of the chips should be no slower than 70 ms. I need to look at your pictures and see how you do this.

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <zentaro.cane@...> wrote:
>
> Hallo Shawn, I'm still working on the memory upgrade for Grid, at the moment the system make the POST and recognizes the new size but  after few minutes the computer freeze, also Memtest show a lot of errors. I'm not sure, probably parity sticks are not perfectly compatible with non parity system or the timings are differents.
> I have not tried to remove the parity chip
>
> For memory module I used low profile 1meg memory sticks 80ns with parity, I had to cut the two outer parts to fit in the sipp slots.(I checked the cut parts are not being used for a connection)
> The easiest way to solder the pins perfectly is to take a 256k Sipp module and solder the 30 pins on the Simm and cut simultaneously all 30 pins with a cutter. Pictures can explain better than my English.
> Andrea
>
>
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@> wrote:
> >
> > Andrea,
> > The picture from Robocop is very nice.  I have not seen that movie.
> > But there is something even more interesting in your photos.  I saw your photos
> > of the SIMM to SIPP conversion.
> > What the conversion successful?
> > What did you use for pins to put on the SIMM?
> > I tried to do a SIMM to SIPP conversion, but the converted SIMM was too tall. 
> > The cover would not close because the SIMM was too high.  Did you have the same
> > problem?  If so, how did you solve it?
> > Thank you,
> > -Shawn
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Andrea <zentaro.cane@>
> > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sun, January 16, 2011 1:26:43 PM
> > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Robocop 2
> >
> > Hallo, looking Robocop2 I found a GRidCase 1530
> > Andrea
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/7457814@N06/sets/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2202
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 05:31:40 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Response to Tom

This sounds very interesting, Lawrence, but I do have to ask how this is done. You are correct in that the HDD information has to be put into low memory (0000H to 0100H) before the OS takes over. But to do that, it requires that the BIOS actively do that. But I also remember that the GRiD's had the ability to use the BIOS to access any memory chips placed in the EPROM slots under the cover and load information form it BEFORE the OS is started. That's because the OS itself can be loaded into the computer from an EPROM chip. That's a holdover from the earlier days before the GRiD's had HDD's. So are you saying this is a way that an overlay can be used to substitute the HDD information in place of what is on the BIOS chip?

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...> wrote:
>
>  I had brought up the question of using overlays many years ago on this forum,
> but it was discounted for some reason. I'd used several of them to  overcome the
> problem of the OS hdd partition size limitation. They are installed before the
> OS takes over. I also mentioned that, just as video cards are hard-wired to
> install graphic abilities before a computer boots, the Grid SCSI module inserts
> itself in a particular region of  memory, as I imagine other modules such as the
> VGA and Network ones do. My documentation on the SCSI module even gave the
> memory addresses where the info was stored.. I still can't understand why the
> BIOS can't be spoofed this way and address memory locations can't be placed in
> the BIOS. Of course in those units which use the RTC chip battery, containing
> the CMOS there could be other problems. Many Grid users used to use the EProms
> which boot before accessing the drives to contain the OS or other modifications.
> That would be one obvious place to have the overlay install itself rather than
> having to remove the BIOS chips and replace them with new ones which has been
> the suggested method for using other hdd replacement, a very involved and
> difficult process. Or of course the very easy usual method of installing the
> overlay using fdds before loading the OS.
>
> Lawrence Walker

Yahoo! Message number: 2203
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 05:19:22 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Robocop 2

This is an old problem of course. I am very interested in solving this as well, but now I am thinking of an entirely new approach. I am trying to find the actual schematic of the 1 MB memory stick. If I remember correctly the Paragon company at one time put out a conversion which allowed one to use two 4 MB sticks in place of the eight 1 MB sticks. I have never been able to find any information on this. But I would like to investigate trhe possible of designing one of these from scratch. I know I can get the actual chips that are on the sticks, but I would like to create an adapter which plugs into all 240 holes on the motherboard and then connects to an 8 MB memory stick or card (or even a 16 MB, which is the actual maximum possible with the technology). I just have to be able to understand where the memory lines go and how to properly route them. Right now, I just want to look at the schematic of the actual stick itself. I can't find it on the net though.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Andrea,
> The picture from Robocop is very nice.  I have not seen that movie.
> But there is something even more interesting in your photos.  I saw your photos
> of the SIMM to SIPP conversion.
> What the conversion successful?
> What did you use for pins to put on the SIMM?
> I tried to do a SIMM to SIPP conversion, but the converted SIMM was too tall. 
> The cover would not close because the SIMM was too high.  Did you have the same
> problem?  If so, how did you solve it?
> Thank you,
> -Shawn
>
>
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Andrea <zentaro.cane@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, January 16, 2011 1:26:43 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Robocop 2
>
> Hallo, looking Robocop2 I found a GRidCase 1530
> Andrea
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/7457814@N06/sets/
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2204
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 09:31:44 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
text/plain; charset="utf-8"

There is at least one problem with overlays in any computer, but I don't think it has anything to do with BIOS spoofability.  "Real" hackers don't like them, because they're sort of cheating, I think, but another problem is that not all MBRs are created equal, and that's where the overlay goes, as I understand it.  So, if you want to boot Linux, FreeBSD, or anything else non-DOS, installing an overlay might just blow the MBR out of the water.  Other than those things, as you say, lots of things install themselves before the OS, sometimes even before the POST is completed, like video.  I guess the only way to know if it will work is to try it, though.  :-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Walker
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom





 I had brought up the question of using overlays many years ago on this forum, but it was discounted for some reason. I'd used several of them to  overcome the problem of the OS hdd partition size limitation. They are installed before the OS takes over. I also mentioned that, just as video cards are hard-wired to install graphic abilities before a computer boots, the Grid SCSI module inserts itself in a particular region of  memory, as I imagine other modules such as the VGA and Network ones do. My documentation on the SCSI module even gave the memory addresses where the info was stored.. I still can't understand why the BIOS can't be spoofed this way and address memory locations can't be placed in the BIOS. Of course in those units which use the RTC chip battery, containing the CMOS there could be other problems. Many Grid users used to use the EProms which boot before accessing the drives to contain the OS or other modifications. That would be one obvious place to have the overlay install itself rather than having to remove the BIOS chips and replace them with new ones which has been the suggested method for using other hdd replacement, a very involved and difficult process. Or of course the very easy usual method of installing the overlay using fdds before loading the OS.

Lawrence Walker





  From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@...>
  To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Sat, January 15, 2011 9:10:33 AM
  Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom


  Cool! I'll go get Conf1520 at some point, then. Thanks to whoever
  maintains the files section for doing so. Once I get around to diving into
  the ol' darlin' one of these days, it makes it easy to know what to expect
  and where.

  EZ-BIOS basically shows the hard drive as a particular type, accepted by the
  BIOS. At least, it's how I understand it. IIRC, BIOS has a bit of RAM that
  it uses for certain things, but overlays like EZ-BIOS can wedge themselves
  in there, somehow, and fool the BIOS into accepting drives that are not
  listed in its drive table. There are problems with this, but they're not
  usually that bad. Things like the early Norton Utilities will report one
  type of drive, when another is actually used, and if you have an actual
  drive spoofing the BIOS as a smaller one, you get things like what occurred
  to me, back in the XT days. I had a Micropolis drive that actually
  formatted out to 68 CMOS megabytes, but the BIOS thought it was only 62.
  So, Norton reported a 68MB partition on a 62MB drive. :-) And, no data
  compression was involved, here. It was just BIOS being spoofed. Other than
  that, though, it worked flawlessly.

  -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
  "She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: <shawnerz@...>
  To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 11:21 AM
  Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom

  > Conf1520 is in the files section. I found $50 EPROM programmers on ebay.
  > I ordered one and got it in from overseas a couple weeks ago. I haven't
  > had time to see how well the software works.
  > I don't know about ezbios or other things. Unless it can overwrite the
  > bios area in memory, I don't think it will work. But, I've been wrong
  > many times before.
  > -Shawn
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...>
  > Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
  > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:10:59
  > To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
  > Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
  > Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
  >
  > Oh, okay. Poop. Wish I had an EPROM burner and the knowledge to make
  > changes. Just for grins, though, I will get the conf1520.exe, if I can
  > find
  > it, and do some playing. Wonder if something like Disk Manager or EZ-BIOS
  > could allow you to use different drives. Not perfect, but better than a
  > poke in the eye with a sharp stick.
  >
  > -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
  > "She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."
  >
  >
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: "Shawnerz" <shawnerz@...>
  > To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
  > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 11:50 AM
  > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
  >
  >
  > Tom,
  > The early Grid's BIOS was not accessable like today's computer. On the
  > Grid,
  > you cannot hit a key on boot and change the BIOS parameters. There is an
  > external config file that can be used (conf1520.exe and conf1550.exe) that
  > can
  > be used to change a few default parameters (backlight, modem port, inverse
  > or
  > normal display, and a few other options) but that's about it.
  > The true BIOS is 'hard coded' in to two EPROMS on the motherboard. You are
  > severely limited on internal hardware options on a Grid.
  > -Shawn
  >
  >
  > ----- Original Message ----
  > From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@sbcglobal.net>
  > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
  > Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 10:54:44 AM
  > Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: got two 1550sx have hard disk failure
  > message
  > and dont had operation floppys
  >
  > Hey, Phil,
  >
  > This may be a stupid question, but did the 1550sx have a CMOS setup
  > program
  > built in, or was it like the many early ATs that needed an external
  > program
  > to do it? If hitting DEL, F1, F2, F10, S, ESC, or whatever wouldn't get
  > you
  > into setup, maybe it needed one of those programs. I may have to break
  > down
  > and stick a 5.25" drive into this 64-bit box I'm running here to recover
  > same, but if you need some of those programs, let me know, and I'll see
  > what
  > I can dig up. I can't even remember now if my 1520 has that requirement.
  > :-)
  >
  > -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
  > "She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."
  >
  >
  > ------------------------------------
  >
  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > ------------------------------------
  >
  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > ------------------------------------
  >
  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
  >
  >
  >

Yahoo! Message number: 2205
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 10:00:15 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Overlays and stuff
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I've done this on other computers, and the way the BIOS actually works is that it goes directly to the first sector on the drive.  If it finds something executable there, it executes it, whether it be an overlay, a bootstrap program, or what.  The drive size only comes into play when you try to access territory beyond what the INT 13 handler will allow.

One computer I had had a 1995 BIOS, whose CMOS setup program was new enough to recognize that shiny new 6.4GB hard drive I'd just bought, but too old to actually do anything with it, beyond the first 472MB.  Yes, 472, because it had 15 heads, not 16, as the BIOS had expected, so it wouldn't see the usual 504MB on a drive with 16 heads.  I was running OS/2 at the time, plus DOS and Win3.1, and I was told that I couldn't use an overlay because of the differences in the filesystem, cluster size, etc.  If I'd just been using OS/2, there'd have been no problem, because after OS/2 is loaded, it supersedes whatever limitations are in BIOS, and it could see virtually any size drive it was installed on.  So, using the FDISK that came with OS/2, I created a primary partition for Boot Manager, IBM's multi-OS bootloader, and made that partition startable.  That partition only had to be as large as the smallest partition possible on any particular drive.  Then, I created a primary DOS partition called C: on top of that for DOS and Windows.  Then, I created an extended partition, in which I created logical drives D:, E:, and F:.  I made D: bootable, and installed OS/2 there.  E: and F: didn't have to be bootable, because I wasn't booting anything from them.  I formatted D:, E: and F: as HPFS volumes for OS/2, since FAT wasn't nearly as reliable, and since the BIOS couldn't see that far, anyway, DOS couldn't have accessed anything past 472MB, anyway.  At any rate, once OS/2 was booted, the whole drive was available to it, even the DOS partition.  (Well, all except for the Boot Manager partition, but it didn't have a letter attached to it, anyway; it didn't need one.)

Now, it would've been loads of fun to try this on a GRiD, but I didn't have one at the time, and it would've had to be at least a 486DX or "work-alike", like the 486SLC-2 that I was actually using.

I think EZ-BIOS and other overlays (Disk Manager, etc.) could actually do what OS/2 did, even on the GRiD, unless they created their BIOS specifically not to allow overlays, and I'm not sure how they could do that.  American Megatrends, Inc. used to sell an 8-bit ISA card that they claimed would fool anybody's BIOS to use any size hard drive.  All you had to do was plug it into a spare ISA slot.  I was really tempted to try it, but didn't have the $50 at the time.  But, if AMI could guarantee something like that, I don't see why something like that, or an overlay, couldn't work on the GRiD.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: Shawnerz
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 11:13 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Overlays and stuff





Hey Lawrence,
Using an overlay wasn't discounted.  It just has never been tried.If someone has one, please use it.
I don't know what program to use or how to use it.

Personally, I don't know how it would work.  It looks like, on boot, the BIOS code looks for a hard drive to match what's in the table.  If a matching drive isn't there, the BIOS code will never look for a hard drive (until the next reboot, that is).
So, the question I have is, if the overlay is stored on the hard drive, how can the overlay work if it can never be read from hard drive?
But, I've been wrong many times before.  Maybe the BIOS doesn't behave the way I think.  Feel free to try an overlay program.
-Shawn




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 16, 2011 6:11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom




 I had brought up the question of using overlays many years ago on this forum, but it was discounted for some reason. I'd used several of them to  overcome the problem of the OS hdd partition size limitation. They are installed before the OS takes over. I also mentioned that, just as video cards are hard-wired to install graphic abilities before a computer boots, the Grid SCSI module inserts itself in a particular region of  memory, as I imagine other modules such as the VGA and Network ones do. My documentation on the SCSI module even gave the memory addresses where the info was stored.. I still can't understand why the BIOS can't be spoofed this way and address memory locations can't be placed in the BIOS. Of course in those units which use the RTC chip battery, containing the CMOS there could be other problems. Many Grid users used to use the EProms which boot before accessing the drives to contain the OS or other modifications. That would be one obvious place to have the overlay install itself rather than having to remove the BIOS chips and replace them with new ones which has been the suggested method for using other hdd replacement, a very involved and difficult process. Or of course the very easy usual method of installing the overlay using fdds before loading the OS.

Lawrence Walker

Yahoo! Message number: 2206
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 22:11:36 -0000
From: "bigwalk_ca"
Subject: Re: Overlays and stuff

 Check out these URLs.

 The first is an explanation of DDOs (Direct Drive Overlays) and their functioning in the BIOS. He doesn't deal much with older cxomputers tho and like many programmers doesn't like them. He also has an extensive exploration of the BIOS in the mother article. A cursorary scan on the subject seems not favorable.

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/bios/overDDO-c.html

 The 2nd URL is a program mentioned in one of the posts from VCF on DDOs including some links.

One program from around 1990 which looks promising.
http://files.chatnfiles.com/Modem-Madness/modem.madness/smmutils/00index.html          check out anydrive.zip

The 3rd URL is the VCF Thread itself.
Note especially M.Steins post. He's a very knowledgeable IT guy who goes back to the 70s at least, and is in his early 70s himself.
"I've used Disk Manager when I had to replace/upgrade hard drives on old laptops where the BIOS only had one or two HD type entries; never a problem and pretty well transparent except when you need to boot from floppy."

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?17730-Needed-Drive-overlay-software/page3

 Mike Brutman is one of the VCF moderators there and my alias is Micom 2000, but I missed this thread on the busy site.

 I have 2 1520s neither of which has a working HD, unused for some time due to a big backload of "things to do" on my extensive collection of vintage computers. They're still on my favorites list tho.

Lawrence



--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Lawrence,
> Using an overlay wasn't discounted.  It just has never been tried.If someone has
> one, please use it.
>
> I don't know what program to use or how to use it.
>
> Personally, I don't know how it would work.  It looks like, on boot, the BIOS
> code looks for a hard drive to match what's in the table.  If a matching drive
> isn't there, the BIOS code will never look for a hard drive (until the next
> reboot, that is).
> So, the question I have is, if the overlay is stored on the hard drive, how can
> the overlay work if it can never be read from hard drive?
> But, I've been wrong many times before.  Maybe the BIOS doesn't behave the way I
> think.  Feel free to try an overlay program.
> -Shawn
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, January 16, 2011 6:11:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
>
>
>
>
>  I had brought up the question of using overlays many years ago on this forum,
> but it was discounted for some reason. I'd used several of them to  overcome the
> problem of the OS hdd partition size limitation. They are installed before the
> OS takes over. I also mentioned that, just as video cards are hard-wired to
> install graphic abilities before a computer boots, the Grid SCSI module inserts
> itself in a particular region of  memory, as I imagine other modules such as the
> VGA and Network ones do. My documentation on the SCSI module even gave the
> memory addresses where the info was stored.. I still can't understand why the
> BIOS can't be spoofed this way and address memory locations can't be placed in
> the BIOS. Of course in those units which use the RTC chip battery, containing
> the CMOS  there could be other problems. Many Grid users used to use the EProms
> which boot before accessing the drives to contain the OS or other modifications.
> That would be one obvious place to have the overlay install itself rather than
> having to remove the BIOS chips and replace them with new ones which has been
> the suggested method for using other hdd replacement, a very involved and
> difficult process. Or of course the very easy usual method of installing the
> overlay using fdds before loading the OS.
>
> Lawrence Walker
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2207
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 12:19:48 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Overlays and stuff

Thanks, Lawrence.  Looks like some good stuff, there!

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "bigwalk_ca" <bigwalk_ca@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 5:11 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Overlays and stuff


> Check out these URLs.
>
> The first is an explanation of DDOs (Direct Drive Overlays) and their 
> functioning in the BIOS. He doesn't deal much with older cxomputers tho 
> and like many programmers doesn't like them. He also has an extensive 
> exploration of the BIOS in the mother article. A cursorary scan on the 
> subject seems not favorable.
>
> http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/bios/overDDO-c.html
>
> The 2nd URL is a program mentioned in one of the posts from VCF on DDOs 
> including some links.
>
> One program from around 1990 which looks promising.
> http://files.chatnfiles.com/Modem-Madness/modem.madness/smmutils/00index.html 
> check out anydrive.zip
>
> The 3rd URL is the VCF Thread itself.
> Note especially M.Steins post. He's a very knowledgeable IT guy who goes 
> back to the 70s at least, and is in his early 70s himself.
> "I've used Disk Manager when I had to replace/upgrade hard drives on old 
> laptops where the BIOS only had one or two HD type entries; never a 
> problem and pretty well transparent except when you need to boot from 
> floppy."
>
> http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?17730-Needed-Drive-overlay-software/page3
>
> Mike Brutman is one of the VCF moderators there and my alias is Micom 
> 2000, but I missed this thread on the busy site.
>
> I have 2 1520s neither of which has a working HD, unused for some time due 
> to a big backload of "things to do" on my extensive collection of vintage 
> computers. They're still on my favorites list tho.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Lawrence,
>> Using an overlay wasn't discounted.  It just has never been tried.If 
>> someone has
>> one, please use it.
>>
>> I don't know what program to use or how to use it.
>>
>> Personally, I don't know how it would work.  It looks like, on boot, the 
>> BIOS
>> code looks for a hard drive to match what's in the table.  If a matching 
>> drive
>> isn't there, the BIOS code will never look for a hard drive (until the 
>> next
>> reboot, that is).
>> So, the question I have is, if the overlay is stored on the hard drive, 
>> how can
>> the overlay work if it can never be read from hard drive?
>> But, I've been wrong many times before.  Maybe the BIOS doesn't behave 
>> the way I
>> think.  Feel free to try an overlay program.
>> -Shawn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...>
>> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Sun, January 16, 2011 6:11:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Response to Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  I had brought up the question of using overlays many years ago on this 
>> forum,
>> but it was discounted for some reason. I'd used several of them to 
>> overcome the
>> problem of the OS hdd partition size limitation. They are installed 
>> before the
>> OS takes over. I also mentioned that, just as video cards are hard-wired 
>> to
>> install graphic abilities before a computer boots, the Grid SCSI module 
>> inserts
>> itself in a particular region of  memory, as I imagine other modules such 
>> as the
>> VGA and Network ones do. My documentation on the SCSI module even gave 
>> the
>> memory addresses where the info was stored.. I still can't understand why 
>> the
>> BIOS can't be spoofed this way and address memory locations can't be 
>> placed in
>> the BIOS. Of course in those units which use the RTC chip battery, 
>> containing
>> the CMOS  there could be other problems. Many Grid users used to use the 
>> EProms
>> which boot before accessing the drives to contain the OS or other 
>> modifications.
>> That would be one obvious place to have the overlay install itself rather 
>> than
>> having to remove the BIOS chips and replace them with new ones which has 
>> been
>> the suggested method for using other hdd replacement, a very involved and
>> difficult process. Or of course the very easy usual method of installing 
>> the
>> overlay using fdds before loading the OS.
>>
>> Lawrence Walker
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2208
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 08:05:23 -0000
From: "bigbrassring"
Subject: ARI backup files

All,
Just an FYI - I couldn't find files at that old ARI website listed, it appears to be a dead zone now. Don't know if anyone else needs them, but I did find them here:

http://www.sandyflat.net/digerati/ast486/drivers/grid/index.htm

Thanks to them for having this content, although I have yet to try it. (has anyone else?) They appear to be the originals...

You all are so sharp, you probably already know this info :)

Regards,
Brass

Yahoo! Message number: 2209
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 00:28:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ARI backup files

Wow!  Cool.  Nice to know some else is in to vintage computing.
Thanks for the info.  Most of the files at the link are in the "Files" section
of the group located here:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RuGRiD-Laptop/files/

-Shawn

 
----- Original Message ----
From: bigbrassring <bigbrassring@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 3:05:23 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] ARI backup files

All,
Just an FYI - I couldn't find files at that old ARI website listed, it appears
to be a dead zone now. Don't know if anyone else needs them, but I did find them 
here:

http://www.sandyflat.net/digerati/ast486/drivers/grid/index.htm

Thanks to them for having this content, although I have yet to try it. (has
anyone else?) They appear to be the originals...

You all are so sharp, you probably already know this info :)

Regards,
Brass



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2210
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:13:54 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: ARI backup files

Thanks, Brass,

Yeah, that old ARI web site has been dead for about four or five years now. I actually downloaded all the files on it, and I have them somewhere on one of my computers, but I'd have to go looking for them, somwhere. But it's good that there is some other site that has them.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "bigbrassring" <bigbrassring@...> wrote:
>
> All,
> Just an FYI - I couldn't find files at that old ARI website listed, it appears to be a dead zone now. Don't know if anyone else needs them, but I did find them here:
>
> http://www.sandyflat.net/digerati/ast486/drivers/grid/index.htm
>
> Thanks to them for having this content, although I have yet to try it. (has anyone else?) They appear to be the originals...
>
> You all are so sharp, you probably already know this info :)
>
> Regards,
> Brass
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2211
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 03:41:02 -0000
From: "bigbrassring"
Subject: 1530 Hard drive invalid config 02/Cmos Battery

Hey all,

First, thanks to every one of you for adding and keeping the board up.  I was on an Atari board that died - it was fun, but not enough interest was there.  So keep it going!

I've been reading back through the threads here for information. I have the dreaded invalid config 02 error, meaning I have no hard drive access. Is this really just a Cmos battery issue? I do hope so.

OK - So I opened up the laptop (guess that voided the warranty...) and I see a place on the MB to put one of the Tadiran batteries but it's empty.  Am I to gather I have the Dallas chip style motherboard with internal battery?  Do I have to saw the chip apart to get a battery lead on it?

I'm opening up the question to all - Has anyone tried to add the tadiran battery when they had none before - and did it work as a replacement (or possibly a supplement) to the Dallas chip's internal battery?  If it could be converted to old school thinking... good deal.

A couple rechargeable lithium cells or 5 NiMH coin type rechargeable cells in series would do the trick. Add a charging circuit (if none is there).  With that, the battery might last till the bicenten-fiftyal. By the way, those Tadiran batteries used to be used in older Mac PC's, FYI.  The fact is probably Geek trivia by now.

Any thoughts or experience with this, please chime in. I could use the experience you all can share.

And the Bicenten-fiftyal.  That would be 2026, and these GRiD laptops would be about 40 years old.  It's almost hard to believe some of these designs are 25 years old now.  I'd bet they will still work in 2026.  All we need is power.

To Shawn and Phil - glad to hear from you both - I've read many of your posts here (lurk occasionally), I've much to gain from them. Thank you

Meanwhile - here's my superbowl best bet.
You'll have to look to find out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iPuxHnSUKE

Regards, Brass

1232 - can't kill it, and clock is right twice a day (OK, not the yr)
1520 - bigger, with bigger screen (aka heavier)
1530 - bigger, faster, can run windows when HD works and on AC power
2260 - Free pen was sold with every computer - So geez, I just want  the PEN - where did they go?

Yahoo! Message number: 2212
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 05:10:33 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: 1530 Hard drive invalid config 02/Cmos Battery

Hi, Brass,

Okay, you have the Dallas RTC on your MoBo, which is the biggest pain the behind we have considering this problem of a dead CMOS battery. You cannot just drop in a Tadiran battery in the empty space where it used to be. That won't work. The problem with the Dallas RTC timing chip is that the CMOS battery is actually buried within the epoxy of the chip itself, sitting on top of the circuitry.

So you have two choices. Fortunately, you have a 1530, in which replacement of the chip will work for sure (It won't in some 1520's). But then that is the problem. You would have to take the computer completely apart, desolder the Dallas 1287 chip out of the MoBo and replace it with another one. So you would have to have the specialty equipment to do that, such as a desoldering station similar to what I have. The other problem is finding a replacement chip. Dallas Semiconductor no longer makes the Dallas 1287 or 1287A chip, It has been superseeded by the Dallas 12887A chip. But be warned, this computer is too primitive and will not work with the Dallas 12887A chip. Therefore you have to find some source which still sells the Dallas 1287 or 1287A chip (Look on your motherboard. The Dallas RTC is located underneath the keyboard to the left front section. It will be either a 1287 or a 1287A. As it is a 1530 computer, it is more likely it will be a 1287A. In any case, replace it with the same chip.) You have to search pretty aggressively, but you can still find some sources out there that still have some of these chips around to sell. That is option one.

Option two is if you can't find a replacement chip or you don't want to go that route. Unfortunately it still involves removing the old Dallas RTC 1287 chip from the motherboard. So you would still have to completely unassemble the computer and then desolder the chip from the MoBo. You will see that there are no pins on the chip to positions 16 and 20. That is because those pins were folded up into the epoxy body of the chip to connect to the internalized CMOS battery. What you would have to do is be very, very careful in extracting the chip from the MoBo, keeping it's pins intact because you are going to use it again. This requires some skill to perform. Then you must use a dremel tool to drill into the body of the chip on those two battery terminal positions. You have to be sure and disconnect the battery on at least one of the terminals (a dead CMOS battery will kill any other you try to attach.), then solder two wires to the two terminals, making sure you know what the polarities are. Then you can resolder the chip back into the MoBo, and attach the wires to a coin battery holder for a lithium ion coin battery that will serve as the new CMOS battery. Find a place in the computer to secure the coin battery. Then reassmeble the computer and fire it up.

I have performed both of these techniques on several 1520's and 1530's and it is not easy. You must be careful. And unfortunately, there is no other way to get you computer up and running fully. Shawn has a file in the files section which will detail fully how to perform the coin battery substitution procedure. I am also planning on uploading a document with pictures on the soldering desoldering process for the Dallas RTC 1287A chip as well.

Hope that helps.

Yahoo! Message number: 2213
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:18:42 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Tutorial on replacing the Dallas RTC 1298A timing chip with pictures

I have put together a tutorial in PDF format for doing this procedure. However, the file is 39 MB. I don't think it will fit into the files section of the forum. I would like to upload it to Shawn's server if it's okay with him and then people can access it from there.

Phil

Yahoo! Message number: 2214
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 06:02:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1530 Hard drive invalid config 02/Cmos Battery
text/plain; charset=utf-8

 Actually one can also use Win 3.1 on the 1520 if you add the memory SIPPs.
There's a setting in the set-up program to enable extended memory.
I did it in mine before the hdd died. I can't remember whether it used the
protected version of Win, but I think it did.
 Many 286s could use Win 3.1. I also used Win 3.x(?) on a NEC Pro LT. That one
was definitely not the protected version tho
For a while after I started having problems with my hdds (on both 1520s) I could
get it functioning by rapping on the hd with my rubber encased screwdriver
handle.  It was obviously caused by striction. I've heard from some vintage
restorers that using HD-40 and then later a light oil, on the shaft, they've
resusitated old FM hds. I haven't tried that yet on my Grids.

Lawrence



>
>From: bigbrassring <bigbrassring@...>
>To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 9:41:02 PM
>Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1530 Hard drive invalid config 02/Cmos Battery
>
>
>Hey all,
>
>First, thanks to every one of you for adding and keeping the board up.  I was on
>an Atari board that died - it was fun, but not enough interest was there.  So
>keep it going!
>
>I've been reading back through the threads here for information. I have the
>dreaded invalid config 02 error, meaning I have no hard drive access. Is this
>really just a Cmos battery issue? I do hope so.
>
>OK - So I opened up the laptop (guess that voided the warranty...) and I see a
>place on the MB to put one of the Tadiran batteries but it's empty.  Am I to
>gather I have the Dallas chip style motherboard with internal battery?  Do I
>have to saw the chip apart to get a battery lead on it?
>
>I'm opening up the question to all - Has anyone tried to add the tadiran battery
>when they had none before - and did it work as a replacement (or possibly a
>supplement) to the Dallas chip's internal battery?  If it could be converted to
>old school thinking... good deal.
>
>A couple rechargeable lithium cells or 5 NiMH coin type rechargeable cells in
>series would do the trick. Add a charging circuit (if none is there).  With
>that, the battery might last till the bicenten-fiftyal. By the way, those
>Tadiran batteries used to be used in older Mac PC's, FYI.  The fact is probably
>Geek trivia by now.
>
>Any thoughts or experience with this, please chime in. I could use the
>experience you all can share.
>
>
>And the Bicenten-fiftyal.  That would be 2026, and these GRiD laptops would be
>about 40 years old.  It's almost hard to believe some of these designs are 25
>years old now.  I'd bet they will still work in 2026.  All we need is power.
>
>To Shawn and Phil - glad to hear from you both - I've read many of your posts
>here (lurk occasionally), I've much to gain from them. Thank you
>
>Meanwhile - here's my superbowl best bet.
>You'll have to look to find out...
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iPuxHnSUKE
>
>Regards, Brass
>
>1232 - can't kill it, and clock is right twice a day (OK, not the yr)
>1520 - bigger, with bigger screen (aka heavier)
>1530 - bigger, faster, can run windows when HD works and on AC power
>2260 - Free pen was sold with every computer - So geez, I just want  the PEN -
>where did they go?
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2215
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:06:59 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Tutorial on replacing the Dallas RTC 1298A timing chip with pictures

Hey Phil,
Feel free to put it on the server.
You should be able to ftp it to shawnerz.homelinux.org
-Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@msn.com>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:18:42 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Tutorial on replacing the Dallas RTC 1298A timing chip with pictures

I have put together a tutorial in PDF format for doing this procedure. However, the file is 39 MB. I don't think it will fit into the files section of the forum. I would like to upload it to Shawn's server if it's okay with him and then people can access it from there.

Phil



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2216
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:10:52 -0000
From: "bigbrassring"
Subject: Re: Tutorial on replacing the Dallas RTC 1298A timing chip with pictures

That is awesome!  Let me know when it's up.  I've taken the Gridcase 3' apart many times, but not the 1530. It looks similar though, but great to read the instructions...

I'm pretty adept at disassembly and soldering, so replacement would be my best option.  I found the dallas chip on line here:

http://www.batterytex.com/product/detail/DALLAS/DS-1287A/COMP-47A/0BF68D42-197E-9BFF-12AFBF5B5A676378

They also have the 1287 and the Tadiran batteries which work in the Gridcase 3

It's a little expensive, but what's worse is all the effort it requires.

Yahoo! Message number: 2217
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 23:11:33 -0000
From: "zuffenhausen18"
Subject: 1450 sx won't boot!

Hey everybody, I just received my 1450sx today, and I need some troubleshooting advice. When I power the unit on, the screen just kinda stays black, and doesn't boot to anything. Where should I start in trying to fix this?

Yahoo! Message number: 2218
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 23:11:43 -0000
From: "zuffenhausen18"
Subject: 1450 sx won't boot!

Hey everybody, I just received my 1450sx today, and I need some troubleshooting advice. When I power the unit on, the screen just kinda stays black, and doesn't boot to anything. Where should I start in trying to fix this?

Yahoo! Message number: 2219
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:32:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1450 sx won't boot!

Zuffen...
I'm not too familiar with the 1450.  I looked on Google and found this site:
http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/grid-1450sx/index.html
>From what you say, it sounds like something is preventing the computer from
booting.
Are there any beeps or anything? 
Do you have a multimeter or voltmeter?  It is possible to measure the output of
the power supply to make sure it's generating the proper voltage?
Does the battery detach from the bottom?  Try to boot it without the battery.
Does it have an internal hard drive?  It looks like it might.  You might have to
take it apart to get to the hard drive.  Try removing the hard drive and then
booting the computer.
These are the first things to look at.  Please let us know what you find out.
Thanks,
-Shawn


----- Original Message ----
From: zuffenhausen18 <zuffenhausen18@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 22, 2011 6:11:33 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] 1450 sx won't boot!

Hey everybody, I just received my 1450sx today, and I need some troubleshooting
advice. When I power the unit on, the screen just kinda stays black, and doesn't
boot to anything. Where should I start in trying to fix this?



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2220
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 10:39:29 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Tutorial on replacing the Dallas RTC 1298A timing chip with pictures

Thanks for locating this, Brass.  I'm going to eventually dive into the ol' 
darlin' and see what I can do to fix 'er up.  The only thing that concerns 
me about these chips are how long they've set on the shelf with their 
batteries slowly going flat.  Of course, they're NiCd, so they will 
recharge, if they haven't gone past the point of no return.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "bigbrassring" <bigbrassring@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 1:10 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Tutorial on replacing the Dallas RTC 1298A 
timing chip with pictures


> That is awesome!  Let me know when it's up.  I've taken the Gridcase 3' 
> apart many times, but not the 1530. It looks similar though, but great to 
> read the instructions...
>
> I'm pretty adept at disassembly and soldering, so replacement would be my 
> best option.  I found the dallas chip on line here:
>
> http://www.batterytex.com/product/detail/DALLAS/DS-1287A/COMP-47A/0BF68D42-197E-9BFF-12AFBF5B5A676378
>
> They also have the 1287 and the Tadiran batteries which work in the 
> Gridcase 3
>
> It's a little expensive, but what's worse is all the effort it requires.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2221
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 07:23:31 -0000
From: "bigbrassring"
Subject: real time clock Grid 1520/1530

Hi all,
I have a 1530 and it has an Apple battery with a wire tied to the modem.  So where is the clock chip on this one, or is there a clock chip at all?  My other unit has a Dallas chip on it, this must be an older motherboard I'm guessing.

I also have a 1520 with the same style battery to backup the RTC but without the wire to the modem.  My question - Does anyone know if these two units with the battery even use a Dallas chip?  Maybe you can give me some insight before I disect them further.  I don't see a Dallas chip, but I haven't taken it completely apart yet.  If there is one, I can't imagine where there's the room to put it where I haven't looked, but my wife thinks I'm blind, too.

Do I just need to change the Apple 2 battery on these units to get the RTC working?

On a side note, I'm also wondering if anyone knows of compatible coprocessors that were supported on these units.  Has anyone installed a Cyrix coprocessor?


Thanks for all of your your insights.

Regards, Brass

Yahoo! Message number: 2222
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:46:22 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] real time clock Grid 1520/1530

Hugh,
Wire to the modem?  Wow, that's a new mod I've never heard of. Can you possibly get a picture of that? I don't know why a person would do that.  AFAIK, there is no non-volitile power source on the modem.

I don't have a 1530.  But I'd like to see what the person did on yours.

As far as the co-processor, I have't put one in. The 1520 has a socket for the 287.  I don't think Cyrix did any thing with the 286/287.

-shawn
All typos courtesy of my Blackberry Torch.

-----Original Message-----
From: "bigbrassring" <bigbrassring@yahoo.com>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 07:23:31 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] real time clock Grid 1520/1530

Hi all,
I have a 1530 and it has an Apple battery with a wire tied to the modem.  So where is the clock chip on this one, or is there a clock chip at all?  My other unit has a Dallas chip on it, this must be an older motherboard I'm guessing.

I also have a 1520 with the same style battery to backup the RTC but without the wire to the modem.  My question - Does anyone know if these two units with the battery even use a Dallas chip?  Maybe you can give me some insight before I disect them further.  I don't see a Dallas chip, but I haven't taken it completely apart yet.  If there is one, I can't imagine where there's the room to put it where I haven't looked, but my wife thinks I'm blind, too.  

Do I just need to change the Apple 2 battery on these units to get the RTC working?

On a side note, I'm also wondering if anyone knows of compatible coprocessors that were supported on these units.  Has anyone installed a Cyrix coprocessor?


Thanks for all of your your insights.

Regards, Brass



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2223
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:39:25 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: real time clock Grid 1520/1530

Hi BBR,

        I have never heard of this "apple" battery thing. It is not a standard GRiD part at all. Someone must have tried modifying the computer. There are basically only two flavors of CMOS battery installation on the GRiD's. They are the same for both the 1520 and 1530. In fact the motherboards for the 1520 and 1530 are very similar.
        Once you take the keyboard bezel off the computer to where you can see the motherboard around the keyboard, all you have to do is look at the upper right side, just behind the keyboard and in front of the hard drive. If you see a Tadiran CMOS battery there, then that is your CMOS battery, easily replaced if needed. Those computers do not have the Dallas RTC chip. Their timing chip is a Motorola chip located underneath the keyboard to the lower left. If you do not see the Tadiran CMOS battery, then you do have a computer that uses the Dallas 1287A or 1287 RTC chip. This chip is also located down to the lower left of the motherboard underneath the keyboard. Replacing it is a little more involved.
        However, these are the only two modifications of the computer for CMOS battery support ever done by GRiD. The "apple" battery you describe is not standard GRiD issue, so to speak. It would help to see a picture of what you are talking about.
        I have installed the 80387 math co-processor on a couple of my 1530's. You have to be sure and get the correct speed co-processor if you do (12.5 MHz if I remember correctly for the 1530). I have heard of some people being able to put in the Cyrix 486 processor in place of the 80836 CPU and making it work, but I've never tried that.
        BTW, Shawn, did you ever figure out if there was a problem with your server? I would still like to try and log on and upload that tutorial I created about replacing the Dallas RTC chip. Thanks.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "bigbrassring" <bigbrassring@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I have a 1530 and it has an Apple battery with a wire tied to the modem.  So where is the clock chip on this one, or is there a clock chip at all?  My other unit has a Dallas chip on it, this must be an older motherboard I'm guessing.
>
> I also have a 1520 with the same style battery to backup the RTC but without the wire to the modem.  My question - Does anyone know if these two units with the battery even use a Dallas chip?  Maybe you can give me some insight before I disect them further.  I don't see a Dallas chip, but I haven't taken it completely apart yet.  If there is one, I can't imagine where there's the room to put it where I haven't looked, but my wife thinks I'm blind, too.
>
> Do I just need to change the Apple 2 battery on these units to get the RTC working?
>
> On a side note, I'm also wondering if anyone knows of compatible coprocessors that were supported on these units.  Has anyone installed a Cyrix coprocessor?
>
>
> Thanks for all of your your insights.
>
> Regards, Brass
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2224
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 02:18:16 -0000
From: "bigbrassring"
Subject: Re: real time clock Grid 1520/1530

The apple battery is actually a Tadiran axial lead 3.6v battery that you are familiar with in the Grids - they were also used in the Apple 2c computer.

I have one 1530 with a Dallas chip, the other doesn't have one - it has a Tadiran battery.

The 1520 I have appears to have a Tadiran battery as stock, but has this "modification" with a wire from the positive side of the battery to the modem. I'm guessing it was to help "recharge" the Tadiran LI-Io battery when in powered up mode, but thought it somewhat brute force.

I am going on out on the wild side and exploring into a Cyrix CX486DRx2 processor, to see if it will work as a plug and play replacement in this 1530 baby (short of a setup file for the cache).

I am curious though - why the coprocessor speed must be matched?  Won't a coprocessor run at a lower (lower than rated) speed and just match the rest of the connected Cpu buss?

Thanks for your insight,

Brass

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> Hi BBR,
>
>         I have never heard of this "apple" battery thing. It is not a standard GRiD part at all. Someone must have tried modifying the computer. There are basically only two flavors of CMOS battery installation on the GRiD's. They are the same for both the 1520 and 1530. In fact the motherboards for the 1520 and 1530 are very similar.
>         Once you take the keyboard bezel off the computer to where you can see the motherboard around the keyboard, all you have to do is look at the upper right side, just behind the keyboard and in front of the hard drive. If you see a Tadiran CMOS battery there, then that is your CMOS battery, easily replaced if needed. Those computers do not have the Dallas RTC chip. Their timing chip is a Motorola chip located underneath the keyboard to the lower left. If you do not see the Tadiran CMOS battery, then you do have a computer that uses the Dallas 1287A or 1287 RTC chip. This chip is also located down to the lower left of the motherboard underneath the keyboard. Replacing it is a little more involved.
>         However, these are the only two modifications of the computer for CMOS battery support ever done by GRiD. The "apple" battery you describe is not standard GRiD issue, so to speak. It would help to see a picture of what you are talking about.
>         I have installed the 80387 math co-processor on a couple of my 1530's. You have to be sure and get the correct speed co-processor if you do (12.5 MHz if I remember correctly for the 1530). I have heard of some people being able to put in the Cyrix 486 processor in place of the 80836 CPU and making it work, but I've never tried that.
>         BTW, Shawn, did you ever figure out if there was a problem with your server? I would still like to try and log on and upload that tutorial I created about replacing the Dallas RTC chip. Thanks.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "bigbrassring" <bigbrassring@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I have a 1530 and it has an Apple battery with a wire tied to the modem.  So where is the clock chip on this one, or is there a clock chip at all?  My other unit has a Dallas chip on it, this must be an older motherboard I'm guessing.
> >
> > I also have a 1520 with the same style battery to backup the RTC but without the wire to the modem.  My question - Does anyone know if these two units with the battery even use a Dallas chip?  Maybe you can give me some insight before I disect them further.  I don't see a Dallas chip, but I haven't taken it completely apart yet.  If there is one, I can't imagine where there's the room to put it where I haven't looked, but my wife thinks I'm blind, too.
> >
> > Do I just need to change the Apple 2 battery on these units to get the RTC working?
> >
> > On a side note, I'm also wondering if anyone knows of compatible coprocessors that were supported on these units.  Has anyone installed a Cyrix coprocessor?
> >
> >
> > Thanks for all of your your insights.
> >
> > Regards, Brass
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2225
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 05:00:28 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: real time clock Grid 1520/1530
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hey, Brass,

         I see what you mean. Yeah, I think you're right in that somebody
tried to connect a positive power source to the battery lead to try and
keep the tadiran battery charged. Definitely not a good way to do it. As
I'm sure you know, charging a lithium ion battery takes a special
charger circuit, and the tadiran really wasn't meant to be recharged
anyway.

         As to the coprocessor, you are correct. The rated speed doesn't
have to be exactly 12.5 Mhz. I thought it had to be, but when I looked
it up, this is what I found from the Technical Manual for the Grids:

80387 Coprocessor
         The 80387 Coprocessor is directly coupled to the 80386
Microprocessor through a 32-bit synchronous data bus. When the
80386 encounters a coprocessor instruction, it automatically
generates one or more I/0 cycles to addresses 800000F8h and
800000FCh. Address 800000FCh is the write command address and
800000FCh is the read and write data address.
         The microprocessor performs all necessary bus cycles to memory
and
transfers data to and from the coprocessor. Read cycles, which
transfer data from the coprocessor to the microprocessor, require
at least one wait state. Write cycles to the coprocessor do not
require any wait states.
         The microprocessor initiates coprocessor operations under
program
control and during execution of a coprocessor (ESC) instruction.
The coprocessor uses a PEREQ signal to request operand transfers to
or from system memory. Since these operand transfers occur whem
the coprocessor requests them, they are synchronous to the
instruction execution of the microprocessor.

------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-

         As to the Cyrix 496, it has been done before. I pulled this note
off the old Rob's Grid Board which shows somebody has done it:

Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:00:49
From: Bernard Kampmann
To: Rob Borsari
Subject: Re: GRiD parts, Laptops + info

Rob,
Nice Web page!
I have two of the old Grid dino's, a 1520 and a 1530 and I LOVE them.
Wished someone would build such quality again!! Recently I upgraded the
1530 with one of the Cyrix 486 overdrive processors. Makes a huge
difference from the old 386-12. They are discontinued but if you call
Cyrix they can direct you mailorder houses that still have stock.
Did you find any links to parts? I used to get some stuff from Tandy
(800-442-2425) but some of their prices are goldplated ($200 for 1Mb
SIPP!!) Electrified has some goods but no internal parts.
Where did you get the specs for the model 1585/1580 from?? That looks
like a real modernized Grid? Someone building them again with pentiums?
Any sources you know of to get one?? Thanks, and good luck with your
page.
Bernard

So I know that it has been done. Good Luck!

Phil


--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "bigbrassring" <bigbrassring@...>
wrote:
>
> The apple battery is actually a Tadiran axial lead 3.6v battery that
you are familiar with in the Grids - they were also used in the Apple 2c
computer.
>
> I have one 1530 with a Dallas chip, the other doesn't have one - it
has a Tadiran battery.
>
> The 1520 I have appears to have a Tadiran battery as stock, but has
this "modification" with a wire from the positive side of the battery to
the modem. I'm guessing it was to help "recharge" the Tadiran LI-Io
battery when in powered up mode, but thought it somewhat brute force.
>
> I am going on out on the wild side and exploring into a Cyrix
CX486DRx2 processor, to see if it will work as a plug and play
replacement in this 1530 baby (short of a setup file for the cache).
>
> I am curious though - why the coprocessor speed must be matched? Won't
a coprocessor run at a lower (lower than rated) speed and just match the
rest of the connected Cpu buss?
>
> Thanks for your insight,
>
> Brass

Yahoo! Message number: 2226
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 19:11:32 -0000
From: "bigwalk_ca"
Subject: Re: real time clock Grid 1520/1530

 I don't know if you found it, but in the files section in the 1520 files is a Cyrix folder.

Lawrence

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "bigbrassring" <bigbrassring@...> wrote:
>
> The apple battery is actually a Tadiran axial lead 3.6v battery that you are familiar with in the Grids - they were also used in the Apple 2c computer.
>
> I have one 1530 with a Dallas chip, the other doesn't have one - it has a Tadiran battery.
>
> The 1520 I have appears to have a Tadiran battery as stock, but has this "modification" with a wire from the positive side of the battery to the modem. I'm guessing it was to help "recharge" the Tadiran LI-Io battery when in powered up mode, but thought it somewhat brute force.
>
> I am going on out on the wild side and exploring into a Cyrix CX486DRx2 processor, to see if it will work as a plug and play replacement in this 1530 baby (short of a setup file for the cache).
>
> I am curious though - why the coprocessor speed must be matched?  Won't a coprocessor run at a lower (lower than rated) speed and just match the rest of the connected Cpu buss?
>
> Thanks for your insight,
>
> Brass
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi BBR,
> >
> >         I have never heard of this "apple" battery thing. It is not a standard GRiD part at all. Someone must have tried modifying the computer. There are basically only two flavors of CMOS battery installation on the GRiD's. They are the same for both the 1520 and 1530. In fact the motherboards for the 1520 and 1530 are very similar.
> >         Once you take the keyboard bezel off the computer to where you can see the motherboard around the keyboard, all you have to do is look at the upper right side, just behind the keyboard and in front of the hard drive. If you see a Tadiran CMOS battery there, then that is your CMOS battery, easily replaced if needed. Those computers do not have the Dallas RTC chip. Their timing chip is a Motorola chip located underneath the keyboard to the lower left. If you do not see the Tadiran CMOS battery, then you do have a computer that uses the Dallas 1287A or 1287 RTC chip. This chip is also located down to the lower left of the motherboard underneath the keyboard. Replacing it is a little more involved.
> >         However, these are the only two modifications of the computer for CMOS battery support ever done by GRiD. The "apple" battery you describe is not standard GRiD issue, so to speak. It would help to see a picture of what you are talking about.
> >         I have installed the 80387 math co-processor on a couple of my 1530's. You have to be sure and get the correct speed co-processor if you do (12.5 MHz if I remember correctly for the 1530). I have heard of some people being able to put in the Cyrix 486 processor in place of the 80836 CPU and making it work, but I've never tried that.
> >         BTW, Shawn, did you ever figure out if there was a problem with your server? I would still like to try and log on and upload that tutorial I created about replacing the Dallas RTC chip. Thanks.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "bigbrassring" <bigbrassring@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > > I have a 1530 and it has an Apple battery with a wire tied to the modem.  So where is the clock chip on this one, or is there a clock chip at all?  My other unit has a Dallas chip on it, this must be an older motherboard I'm guessing.
> > >
> > > I also have a 1520 with the same style battery to backup the RTC but without the wire to the modem.  My question - Does anyone know if these two units with the battery even use a Dallas chip?  Maybe you can give me some insight before I disect them further.  I don't see a Dallas chip, but I haven't taken it completely apart yet.  If there is one, I can't imagine where there's the room to put it where I haven't looked, but my wife thinks I'm blind, too.
> > >
> > > Do I just need to change the Apple 2 battery on these units to get the RTC working?
> > >
> > > On a side note, I'm also wondering if anyone knows of compatible coprocessors that were supported on these units.  Has anyone installed a Cyrix coprocessor?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for all of your your insights.
> > >
> > > Regards, Brass
> > >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2227
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 05:28:18 -0000
From: "bigbrassring"
Subject: Re: real time clock Grid 1520/1530

Thanks Lawrence!

I did see that folder in the files section and was wondering if it applied to this application - I also scrounged the web.

So does that folder have the files that activate both the Cyrix/Texas Instruments Cpu cache and also doubles the clock speed?  I'll definitely try those first :)

And my wife continues to wonder why I do this... I tell her it's because she's the best, and we might need a Grid someday.

She's not buying it.

Best Regards,
Brass



--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "bigwalk_ca" <bigwalk_ca@...> wrote:
>
>  I don't know if you found it, but in the files section in the 1520 files is a Cyrix folder.
>
> Lawrence
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "bigbrassring" <bigbrassring@> wrote:
> >
> > The apple battery is actually a Tadiran axial lead 3.6v battery that you are familiar with in the Grids - they were also used in the Apple 2c computer.
> >
> > I have one 1530 with a Dallas chip, the other doesn't have one - it has a Tadiran battery.
> >
> > The 1520 I have appears to have a Tadiran battery as stock, but has this "modification" with a wire from the positive side of the battery to the modem. I'm guessing it was to help "recharge" the Tadiran LI-Io battery when in powered up mode, but thought it somewhat brute force.
> >
> > I am going on out on the wild side and exploring into a Cyrix CX486DRx2 processor, to see if it will work as a plug and play replacement in this 1530 baby (short of a setup file for the cache).
> >
> > I am curious though - why the coprocessor speed must be matched?  Won't a coprocessor run at a lower (lower than rated) speed and just match the rest of the connected Cpu buss?
> >
> > Thanks for your insight,
> >
> > Brass
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi BBR,
> > >
> > >         I have never heard of this "apple" battery thing. It is not a standard GRiD part at all. Someone must have tried modifying the computer. There are basically only two flavors of CMOS battery installation on the GRiD's. They are the same for both the 1520 and 1530. In fact the motherboards for the 1520 and 1530 are very similar.
> > >         Once you take the keyboard bezel off the computer to where you can see the motherboard around the keyboard, all you have to do is look at the upper right side, just behind the keyboard and in front of the hard drive. If you see a Tadiran CMOS battery there, then that is your CMOS battery, easily replaced if needed. Those computers do not have the Dallas RTC chip. Their timing chip is a Motorola chip located underneath the keyboard to the lower left. If you do not see the Tadiran CMOS battery, then you do have a computer that uses the Dallas 1287A or 1287 RTC chip. This chip is also located down to the lower left of the motherboard underneath the keyboard. Replacing it is a little more involved.
> > >         However, these are the only two modifications of the computer for CMOS battery support ever done by GRiD. The "apple" battery you describe is not standard GRiD issue, so to speak. It would help to see a picture of what you are talking about.
> > >         I have installed the 80387 math co-processor on a couple of my 1530's. You have to be sure and get the correct speed co-processor if you do (12.5 MHz if I remember correctly for the 1530). I have heard of some people being able to put in the Cyrix 486 processor in place of the 80836 CPU and making it work, but I've never tried that.
> > >         BTW, Shawn, did you ever figure out if there was a problem with your server? I would still like to try and log on and upload that tutorial I created about replacing the Dallas RTC chip. Thanks.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "bigbrassring" <bigbrassring@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > > I have a 1530 and it has an Apple battery with a wire tied to the modem.  So where is the clock chip on this one, or is there a clock chip at all?  My other unit has a Dallas chip on it, this must be an older motherboard I'm guessing.
> > > >
> > > > I also have a 1520 with the same style battery to backup the RTC but without the wire to the modem.  My question - Does anyone know if these two units with the battery even use a Dallas chip?  Maybe you can give me some insight before I disect them further.  I don't see a Dallas chip, but I haven't taken it completely apart yet.  If there is one, I can't imagine where there's the room to put it where I haven't looked, but my wife thinks I'm blind, too.
> > > >
> > > > Do I just need to change the Apple 2 battery on these units to get the RTC working?
> > > >
> > > > On a side note, I'm also wondering if anyone knows of compatible coprocessors that were supported on these units.  Has anyone installed a Cyrix coprocessor?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for all of your your insights.
> > > >
> > > > Regards, Brass
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2228
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 16:11:03 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Gridpad XL?

Anyone have a Gridpad XL?  I see there's an external floppy drive available on ebay.  Item number 270376687638 has 10 days to run.

Yahoo! Message number: 2229
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 07:41:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest

All,
I know not everone is interested.  But there are enough people to send it to the entire group.
I have a 128 MB compact flash (CF).  I would like to boot my 1520 from it instead of the hard drive.
I used hdlook.exe on an old 633 MHz Pentium to get the Cylinder/Head/Sector (CHS) information.  I took the information from hdlook, and put that in to the Grid BIOS.  The Grid did not see the CF.
In the Vinage Computer Forum, it was suggested that the CF might be using Logical Block Addressing (LBA).  In short, LBA is used in order to get DOS to see larger hard drives.  Since the Pentium computer supports LBA, the values from hdlook might not be what the 1520 see on boot.
So, I remember I had an old, off brand 386SX laptop.  It took a little bit of work, but I was able to connect the CF to it.
>From what I can tell, the 386SX BIOS works like this: in it's BIOS, you tell the computer what type of hard drive is connected.  There is type 1 through type 47.  The different types have different CHS values.
So, I had a 128 MB CF connected to the computer.  If I selected type 1 as the hard drive type, MS-DOS will only "see" 10 MB.  If you set the BIOS to type 2, then you get 20 MB (or whatever the value is.  I don't remember exactly).
The bottom line is whatever you set, that's what you get.

I think the next step for me is to get a version of Linux that will run on a 386.  Boot that and see if I can get CHS information from the CF.

Just thought I'd give everyone an update.
-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2230
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 11:22:41 -0800
From: jim s
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest

Shawn,
the way it works is that there is a weird chicken and egg thing going on 
till you get out of the original AT drive types, which are less than the 
bit field sizes defined in the int 13 disk call (don't recall the 
maximums).  The LBA allows the bit fields to be redefined, but keeps the 
same size of data value for the cylinder address.

To the chicken and egg issue.  The Bios starts out with a drive type, 
and from that the CHS values.  It reads the partition table from 
CHS=0:0:0 (it can always do that even with LBA or extended modes).

 From there it takes the LBA values for the drive and tells the drive 
via a command what the values are and the drive changes them.  If they 
don't match something reasonable, then you get some sort of 17xx error.  
If you do something like use a type 0 (10mb) and have a disk with a 
larger Cylinder (C) count, you get by until the OS starts.  Dos pitches 
a hissy fit if the Bios C max does not match the Partition table C 
count.  I think some versions of SCO and early linux systems didn't 
care.  You could boot a larger drive with > 306 (if memory serves) 
cylinders but the same 4 heads and sector count, and all would be well.  
But DOS cares.

So you actually have the PC system (as in bios or boot)  telling the 
drive the geometry, but going thru the steps above.

Also this might help explain why some install have to have the cylinder 
count low, depending on when you read sector 0 of the partition, which 
contains the OS boot image.  If  it is < than the max count of the drive 
entry in the BIOS it may work, but the OS can read beyond that point.  
So the OS can live beyond the BIOS cylinder count even though the boot 
sector is below the line.

None of this counts for as much with all the extensions in modern BIOS 
code, but does the older you get.  There are less and less support for 
the older features now in new parts that let these tricks work.

Jim

On 3/10/2011 7:41 AM, Shawnerz wrote:
>  From what I can tell, the 386SX BIOS works like this: in it's BIOS, you tell the computer what type of hard drive is connected.

Yahoo! Message number: 2231
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:38:41 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest

Hi, Shawn.

You should be able to turn off LBA translation in the Pentium that you used, 
and get the exact geometry that you need.  Type 47 in the '386 system 
*should* allow you to enter the actual drive geometry to set up your own 
user-defined type.  This is from memory, which isn't always 100% reliable, 
but I remember doing something like this when I finally moved out of the 
'286 architecture, and the drive I had at the time didn't match any of the 
hard-coded types.  Good luck!

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shawnerz" <shawnerz@...>
To: "grid laptops" <rugrid-laptop@yahoogroups.com>; "Mike Brutman" 
<mbbrutman@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:41 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest


> All,
> I know not everone is interested.  But there are enough people to send it 
> to the entire group.
> I have a 128 MB compact flash (CF).  I would like to boot my 1520 from it 
> instead of the hard drive.
> I used hdlook.exe on an old 633 MHz Pentium to get the 
> Cylinder/Head/Sector (CHS) information.  I took the information from 
> hdlook, and put that in to the Grid BIOS.  The Grid did not see the CF.
> In the Vinage Computer Forum, it was suggested that the CF might be using 
> Logical Block Addressing (LBA).  In short, LBA is used in order to get DOS 
> to see larger hard drives.  Since the Pentium computer supports LBA, the 
> values from hdlook might not be what the 1520 see on boot.
> So, I remember I had an old, off brand 386SX laptop.  It took a little bit 
> of work, but I was able to connect the CF to it.
> From what I can tell, the 386SX BIOS works like this: in it's BIOS, you 
> tell the computer what type of hard drive is connected.  There is type 1 
> through type 47.  The different types have different CHS values.
> So, I had a 128 MB CF connected to the computer.  If I selected type 1 as 
> the hard drive type, MS-DOS will only "see" 10 MB.  If you set the BIOS to 
> type 2, then you get 20 MB (or whatever the value is.  I don't remember 
> exactly).
> The bottom line is whatever you set, that's what you get.
>
> I think the next step for me is to get a version of Linux that will run on 
> a 386.  Boot that and see if I can get CHS information from the CF.
>
> Just thought I'd give everyone an update.
> -Shawn
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2232
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 00:51:26 -0000
From: "geezer90awd"
Subject: Re: Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest

Hey Shawn,

If you want to get the C/H/S info, you don't actually need a full-up linux for that 386sx; you only need a kernel compiled for 386, with math emulation enabled (unless it's pimped out with a co processor) dumped to a floppy disk.  I could make one up and email you a disk image that you could write to a floppy using the rawrite.exe utility.  Let me know if you want to try this.

I still haven't made any progress modifying the bios to work with other drives. The 1535's bios has a drive table area but I can't fully make sense out of it.  One funny thing - I noticed my bios and boot eproms I created always have the two lower checksum bits "00" and found the "00" mentioned somewhere in the 1500 hardware training course.

I've been messing around a bit with the two 1535's I have and made some progress in various areas.  One thing I noticed is you can overclock the machines beyond 20MHz, but the expansion bay does a divide-by-two, so once you go over 10MHz, strange things happen like my network card suddenly vanishing.  They say the ISA bus is usually 8MHz on 386 and better machines but 8088/8086 machines upgraded to 10MHz NEC V20/V30 processors ran their ISA at 10 so that probably was the limit people designed cards with.

Another thing I managed to do is get a Cyrix 486 DLC-40 processor in there.  It's only running at 20, but it has more potential than the 386DX.  In dos its easy enough to use if you run the cache enable utility to get it crankin' because the BIOS doesn't turn it on like it would in more modern 386 boards.  Linux on the other hand was a bit more tricky.  I couldn't run the dos utility and reboot into linux because the cache would turn back off.  I did manage to reverse engineer an ancient kernel driver written for the 1.0 kernels and turn it into a command line program that you just run anytime after bootup.  I believe it worked because I can compile and run programs noticeably faster.  There are some rare 486dlc's that have an internal clock doubler which would probably be the ultimate upgrade for the 1535 but so far I haven't been able to locate one of those chips.

I was also doing some reverse engineering work on the config / mode programs to control the backlight so I could do the same from linux.  After doing a bunch of work with the old faithful D86 debugger I managed to isolate the stuff that controls the backlight via setting a few registers and calling bios int15.  Unfortunately I cannot do the same thing in linux because the 386 processor isn't running in real mode (like an 8086 with 1mb memory space).  The backlight itself is actually controlled by the keyboard microcontroller, but I can't quite figure out how to control it manually without using that int15.  I made an attempt to mimic what int15 does, but the backlight status does not change until you reboot.

For the heck of it, I made up a pair of 128k eproms for the CGA/floppy drive 1535.  It worked perfectly so I am able to boot GRiDOS 3.3 up instantly and have mode, laplink, a text editor and a vt100 terminal all ready to rock..

I was also doing some messing around with linux and managed to get x-windows running on the GRiD.  Don't get your hopes up though, the VGA board in my 1535 with IDE (which curiously says 1530 vga bios on the board) only has 64k of vram!!!! To me that's insane because even the most primitive XT-era 8-bit vga cards in my junkbin have 256k.  I got X running with 320x200x8bit color, but half of the screen was black.  I tried again using 1 bit color and 640x480 actually worked! 800x600x1bit should also be possible but I haven't got it working yet.

-Kevin

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> All,
> I know not everone is interested.  But there are enough people to send it to the entire group.
> I have a 128 MB compact flash (CF).  I would like to boot my 1520 from it instead of the hard drive.
> I used hdlook.exe on an old 633 MHz Pentium to get the Cylinder/Head/Sector (CHS) information.  I took the information from hdlook, and put that in to the Grid BIOS.  The Grid did not see the CF.
> In the Vinage Computer Forum, it was suggested that the CF might be using Logical Block Addressing (LBA).  In short, LBA is used in order to get DOS to see larger hard drives.  Since the Pentium computer supports LBA, the values from hdlook might not be what the 1520 see on boot.
> So, I remember I had an old, off brand 386SX laptop.  It took a little bit of work, but I was able to connect the CF to it.
> From what I can tell, the 386SX BIOS works like this: in it's BIOS, you tell the computer what type of hard drive is connected.  There is type 1 through type 47.  The different types have different CHS values.
> So, I had a 128 MB CF connected to the computer.  If I selected type 1 as the hard drive type, MS-DOS will only "see" 10 MB.  If you set the BIOS to type 2, then you get 20 MB (or whatever the value is.  I don't remember exactly).
> The bottom line is whatever you set, that's what you get.
>
> I think the next step for me is to get a version of Linux that will run on a 386.  Boot that and see if I can get CHS information from the CF.
>
> Just thought I'd give everyone an update.
> -Shawn
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2233
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 23:44:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest

Hey there, Kevin.
Thanks for the response.  I'll insert my questions/comments.



>If you want to get the C/H/S info, you don't actually need a full-up linux for
>that 386sx; you only need a kernel compiled for 386, with math emulation
>>enabled (unless it's pimped out with a co processor) dumped to a floppy disk. 
>I could make one up and email you a disk image that you could write to a >floppy
>using the rawrite.exe utility.  Let me know if you want to try this.
>

I would like to try it, but I'm not sure how it will work.  I'm working with
Grid 1520's which are 286's.  I guess the 386 kernel will work in real mode. 
But it looks like that once the BIOS doesn't like the hard drive, it won't allow
access to it.  I could be wrong, but Mike Brutman wrote a program called
hdlook.exe.  It returns the CHS information from the hard drive.  It appears
that if the hard drive parameters are not in the hard drive table, BIOS won't
allow access to the drive.  It seems a bit over paranoid from a BIOS
standpoint.  But, I'm willing to try your kernel.

>I still haven't made any progress modifying the bios to work with other drives.
>The 1535's bios has a drive table area but I can't fully make sense out of it. 
>

I'm on the road right now.  I thought I had a copy of the 1535 BIOS on my
laptop, but I don't.  If you email me the BIOS, I'll tell you where it begins
and ends.

>One funny thing - I noticed my bios and boot eproms I created always have the
>two lower checksum bits "00" and found the "00" mentioned somewhere in >the 1500
>hardware training course.

How did you do this?  When I make BIOS EPROMS, I always have to change the
beginning text area in order to get the checksum back to the original checksum. 
It would be nice not to have to do this.

>I've been messing around a bit with the two 1535's I have and made some progress
>in various areas.  One thing I noticed is you can overclock the >machines beyond
>20MHz, but the expansion bay does a divide-by-two, so once you go over 10MHz,
>strange things happen like my network card >suddenly vanishing.  They say the
>ISA bus is usually 8MHz on 386 and better machines but 8088/8086 machines
>upgraded to 10MHz NEC V20/V30 >processors ran their ISA at 10 so that probably
>was the limit people designed cards with. 
>

Cool tweeks.  I have a network pod and I have an 8 bit GPIB/IEEE-488 pod.  But
I've told myself I'm not messing around with these until I get the compact flash
thing figured out.

>Another thing I managed to do is get a Cyrix 486 DLC-40 processor in there. 
>It's only running at 20, but it has more potential than the 386DX.  In dos its
>>easy enough to use if you run the cache enable utility to get it crankin'
>because the BIOS doesn't turn it on like it would in more modern 386 boards. 
>>Linux on the other hand was a bit more tricky.  I couldn't run the dos utility
>and reboot into linux because the cache would turn back off.  I did manage to
>>reverse engineer an ancient kernel driver written for the 1.0 kernels and turn
>it into a command line program that you just run anytime after bootup.  I
>>believe it worked because I can compile and run programs noticeably faster. 
>There are some rare 486dlc's that have an internal clock doubler which would
>>probably be the ultimate upgrade for the 1535 but so far I haven't been able to
>locate one of those chips.
>

>I was also doing some reverse engineering work on the config / mode programs to
>control the backlight so I could do the same from linux.  After doing a >bunch
>of work with the old faithful D86 debugger I managed to isolate the stuff that
>controls the backlight via setting a few registers and calling bios int15. 
>>Unfortunately I cannot do the same thing in linux because the 386 processor
>isn't running in real mode (like an 8086 with 1mb memory space).  The >backlight
>itself is actually controlled by the keyboard microcontroller, but I can't quite
>figure out how to control it manually without using that int15.  I made >an
>attempt to mimic what int15 does, but the backlight status does not change until
>you reboot.
>

Pretty advanced stuff.  Way beyond my skill level.

>For the heck of it, I made up a pair of 128k eproms for the CGA/floppy drive
>1535.  It worked perfectly so I am able to boot GRiDOS 3.3 up instantly and
>>have mode, laplink, a text editor and a vt100 terminal all ready to rock..

I'd like to do this too.  Once I get this boot issue figured out, I'll probably
get in to making OS EPROMS.

>I was also doing some messing around with linux and managed to get x-windows
>running on the GRiD.  Don't get your hopes up though, the VGA board in >my 1535
>with IDE (which curiously says 1530 vga bios on the board) only has 64k of
>vram!!!! To me that's insane because even the most primitive XT-era >8-bit vga
>cards in my junkbin have 256k.  I got X running with 320x200x8bit color, but
>half of the screen was black.  I tried again using 1 bit color and >640x480
>actually worked! 800x600x1bit should also be possible but I haven't got it
>working yet.
>

Again, way beyond my skill level.  But it sounds cool! 

Thanks for your help and insights.  I'm open for any suggestions or ideas that
you might have.
-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2234
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 22:09:31 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest

Great Stuff, Kevin,

As per Shawn, way beyond my pay scale. I sort of know about the stuff you're talking about vaguely, but I have never worked with any of it at that deep a level. If I had the time, I'd love to learn. Maybe some day. Like you, I would prefer to work with the 1530's, even though I have several 1520's. My premiere unit is the one I actually bought in 1986, but since then refurbised. It is maxed out with EGA/VGA, 8 MB RAM, a CPS 420A hard drive, and the coprocessor. I also have several others in good working order.

My current project idea is trying to make an adaptation of the memory sticks, due to the fact it really is nearly impossible now to find any 1MB RAM sticks that will actually fit. I do remember that Paradigm (I think that's the correct name of the company) made a kit that adapted a couple of 4 MB sticks to the RAM space of the computer. I would like to find a schematic of that adaptation, or at least find someone who knows the architecture well enough to create one. I would like to find a way to adapt an 8MB or even a 16 MB RAM SIMM to the memory area in place of those 1 MB sticks. I don't think the actual circuitry is that difficult, but I just don't know enough to actually create the schematic. Once I have the schematic though, I can build the board. Then it's just the mechanics of fitting it to the computer.

I would like to ask Shawn: Exactly how are you connecting the flash drive to the computer?

Yahoo! Message number: 2235
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:33:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest

OK Phil,
You brought up a good question.  I wasn't going to bore the rest of the group
with it.  But since you asked... ;-)
I have the standard IDE board that connects to the motherboard and to the hard
drive in my Grid.  I found, through trial and error (and a multimeter), that you
have to use an IDE extension cable -not the typical IDE cable- to connect a IDE
to Compact Flash (CF) adapter to the Grid.  You can also connect a hard drive to
the end of the IDE extension cable.  IDE extension cables have male connectors
on one side and female on the other.
I knew I had the proper cable (IDE extentions) when I could connect an CP3022
drive and have it recognized by the BIOS.
I hope that helps,
-Shawn



----- Original Message ----
From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 21, 2011 6:09:31 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest

Great Stuff, Kevin,

As per Shawn, way beyond my pay scale. I sort of know about the stuff you're
talking about vaguely, but I have never worked with any of it at that deep a
level. If I had the time, I'd love to learn. Maybe some day. Like you, I would
prefer to work with the 1530's, even though I have several 1520's. My premiere
unit is the one I actually bought in 1986, but since then refurbised. It is
maxed out with EGA/VGA, 8 MB RAM, a CPS 420A hard drive, and the coprocessor. I
also have several others in good working order.

My current project idea is trying to make an adaptation of the memory sticks,
due to the fact it really is nearly impossible now to find any 1MB RAM sticks
that will actually fit. I do remember that Paradigm (I think that's the correct
name of the company) made a kit that adapted a couple of 4 MB sticks to the RAM
space of the computer. I would like to find a schematic of that adaptation, or 
at least find someone who knows the architecture well enough to create one. I
would like to find a way to adapt an 8MB or even a 16 MB RAM SIMM to the memory
area in place of those 1 MB sticks. I don't think the actual circuitry is that
difficult, but I just don't know enough to actually create the schematic. Once I
have the schematic though, I can build the board. Then it's just the mechanics
of fitting it to the computer.

I would like to ask Shawn: Exactly how are you connecting the flash drive to the
computer?



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2236
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:10:42 -0000
From: "antwan1500"
Subject: gridcase 1550sx fried power board

I am sad to report that after a case of extreme negligence I let the power supply board in my old Gridcase 1550 get fried. I bought it a few weeks from a friend and was hoping to fix it. The board I need is green with 2, 10 pin adapters on the bottom. I can confirm the board is the problem but I cannot see any damage to it. With all that being said I hate to send this old laptop to a watery grave, so I appeal to you if someone has a power supply board they can part with, it would be much appreciated. I also need a new original floppy drive and Conner hard drive for it, a CP30104. I am located in New Jersey and can pick up within reasonable means. If no one can assist me, I guess Ill accept an offer for it as is, or as I would prefer, to trade it for another old 386 or 486 laptop (since I love old technology). Thank you very much.

Yahoo! Message number: 2237
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:23:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] gridcase 1550sx fried power board
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Antwan,
I think I have a 1550SX, I'll have to look.  AFAIK, it works.  But I think I got it from ebay, and just threw it under the workbench.  I am trying to stay focuses on the 1520 BIOS issues.
Just out of curiosity though, how did you "fry" your power supply?  Over voltage?  Reverse polarity?  Bad judgement leads to good stories - so let us know what happened! ;-)
-Shawn

From: antwan1500 <antwan1500@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 11:10 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] gridcase 1550sx fried power board

I am sad to report that after a case of extreme negligence I let the power supply board in my old Gridcase 1550 get fried. I bought it a few weeks from a friend and was hoping to fix it. The board I need is green with 2, 10 pin adapters on the bottom. I can confirm the board is the problem but I cannot see any damage to it. With all that being said I hate to send this old laptop to a watery grave, so I appeal to you if someone has a power supply board they can part with, it would be much appreciated. I also need a new original floppy drive and Conner hard drive for it, a CP30104. I am located in New Jersey and can pick up within reasonable means. If no one can assist me, I guess Ill accept an offer for it as is, or as I would prefer, to trade it for another old 386 or 486 laptop (since I love old technology). Thank you very much.



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2238
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 21:42:10 -0000
From: "antwan1500"
Subject: Re: gridcase 1550sx fried power board

Well really I wasn't paying attention and a screw I had sticking out of the floppy drive (which has its own problems) and the screw made contact with the board and caused a short circut and fried it. Luckily its just the power board as the whole system still lights up, it just refuses to start up. While were on the topic of parts too the contacts on my power supply also look to be in poor shape but I'm not too worried about that.
 Hell if you're interested in getting rid of your 1550 I might buy the whole thing, I got paypal lol. Thanks in advance Shawn

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Antwan,
> I think I have a 1550SX, I'll have to look.  AFAIK, it works.  But I think I got it from ebay, and just threw it under the workbench.  I am trying to stay focuses on the 1520 BIOS issues.
> Just out of curiosity though, how did you "fry" your power supply?  Over voltage?  Reverse polarity?  Bad judgement leads to good stories - so let us know what happened! ;-)
> -Shawn
>
> From: antwan1500 <antwan1500@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 11:10 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] gridcase 1550sx fried power board
>
> I am sad to report that after a case of extreme negligence I let the power supply board in my old Gridcase 1550 get fried. I bought it a few weeks from a friend and was hoping to fix it. The board I need is green with 2, 10 pin adapters on the bottom. I can confirm the board is the problem but I cannot see any damage to it. With all that being said I hate to send this old laptop to a watery grave, so I appeal to you if someone has a power supply board they can part with, it would be much appreciated. I also need a new original floppy drive and Conner hard drive for it, a CP30104. I am located in New Jersey and can pick up within reasonable means. If no one can assist me, I guess Ill accept an offer for it as is, or as I would prefer, to trade it for another old 386 or 486 laptop (since I love old technology). Thank you very much.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2239
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 19:27:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Man connects to the Internet using a 1964 modem
text/plain; charset=us-ascii

All,
You think your Grid is old, check this out.
http://www.wimp.com/connectsinternet/

-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2240
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 13:55:20 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Man connects to the Internet using a 1964 modem
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

LOL!  Cool!  A real blast from the past.  Hey, at least he was using ASCII, not Baudot!  :-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: Shawnerz
To: grid laptops
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 10:27 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Man connects to the Internet using a 1964 modem





All,
You think your Grid is old, check this out.
http://www.wimp.com/connectsinternet/

-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2241
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 08:42:16 -0000
From: "flecom84"
Subject: WTB: Grid 1550 laptop

So my Grid 1550 (Plasma display) got stolen when my house got broken into (strange thing to steal?) and I would like to replace it... looking for another 1550 series with an orange plasma display

Yahoo! Message number: 2242
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 13:40:13 -0400
From: robert
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] WTB: Grid 1550 laptop
text/plain; charset=windows-1252

got one i can sell you from NASA but unfortunately the smithsonian is inline
for it. :-)

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 4:42 AM, flecom84 <frank@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> So my Grid 1550 (Plasma display) got stolen when my house got broken into
> (strange thing to steal?) and I would like to replace it... looking for
> another 1550 series with an orange plasma display
>
>  
>



--


73 de ke4mcl
"contesting on ham radio is like racing ford pintos, win or lose, other
people are still gonna laugh at you!"

Yahoo! Message number: 2243
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:14:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Man connects to the Internet using a 1964 modem
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

And I'm sure, us techno-geeks know that that guy was wrong in the video.  The
modem doesn't turn a tone off and on.  It switches between two tones-1070 and
1270 Hz (originator).  Or, 2025 and 2225 Hz (answerer).  :)
-Shawn




________________________________
From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@sbcglobal.net>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 1:55:20 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Man connects to the Internet using a 1964 modem




LOL!  Cool!  A real blast from the past.  Hey, at least he was using ASCII, not
Baudot!  :-)
 
-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."

 
----- Original Message -----
From: Shawnerz
To: grid laptops
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 10:27 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Man connects to the Internet using a 1964 modem

All,
You think your Grid is old, check this out.
http://www.wimp.com/connectsinternet/

-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2244
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:58:04 -0000
From: "Jeff 777"
Subject: GRiDCASE 1520 - OPEN THE CASE??

 I have a heavy old 1520 and I want to look inside to see if everything is in there.

 I lifted a cover just above the keyboard on the left side and found an empty socket for some kind of DIP chip. What is supposed to be in there??

I connected the slide-in power supply and the orange screen lighted-up with an error message that said "Invalid configuration information; code 02 Strike F1 to continue"
Disk Boot Error
I guess that the Hard Drive is missing.
So, please tell me the trick to opening the case.
Jeff

Yahoo! Message number: 2245
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 00:26:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDCASE 1520 - OPEN THE CASE??
text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hello Jeff and welcome to the group.

The cover above the keyboard is in fact made for a DIP chip.  It is for a a PROM 
or EPROM of whatever operating system you like to put there.  GRIDDOS, or MS-DOS 
could be put there.  I believe the majority of the chips that went there had 
MS-DOS 2.something-or-other.  The majority of Grids out there have nothing in 
those sockets.

General note to the group: if anyone has either MS-DOS or Grid DOS chip, can I 
borrow them.  I'd like to copy them and add them to the Files location.

I think your more important question was how to open the case.  All of my Grids 
are in storage at the moment, so I'm doing this from memory.  At the rear of the 
unit (where the serial, parallel, and power ports are) there are two rubber 
"feet".  Use a small flat blade screwdriver to gently remove those feet.  Once 
removed, you will see Phillips screws inside.  Once you remove those screws, 
lift up on the rear cover and it should slide off.  There might be a flat, 
countersunk screw on the keyboard side of the cover.  I can't remember.

As far as the error, that is very common.  The "Invalid Configuration Error" is 
likely due to a dead CMOS battery.  Depending on the version of 1520 you have, 
it either has a Dallas Semiconductor 1287 Real Time Clock (or RTC for short) or 
a battery near the RAM.
The next time you boot the Grid and you get that error, try hitting ctrl-alt-del 
and rebooting instead of powering down.  After a couple of times, it should 
attempt to boot from the hard drive.
In the Files section of the group here on Yahoo, there should be an old copy of 
DOS that (assuming you still have a computer with a floppy drive) you can use to 
boot your Grid.

Your 1520 may, or may not, have a hard drive.  If it does still have the 
original hard drive, it probably does not work any more.  Having said that, 
however, I have a hard drive that still works.  I've also thrown out at least 5 
others that don't work.
A quirk of the 1520 is if the RTC is dead, you can't boot from the hard drive.  
It's a BIOS thing that we don't quite understand.  So, if there is a hard drive, 
it *may* still work if the RTC is replaced.

I hope that helps.  Keep us posted on how thing go.
Thanks,
-Shawn




________________________________
From: Jeff 777 <jeffburns777@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 2:58:04 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDCASE 1520 - OPEN THE CASE??


I have a heavy old 1520 and I want to look inside to see if everything is in 
there.

I lifted a cover just above the keyboard on the left side and found an empty 
socket for some kind of DIP chip. What is supposed to be in there??

I connected the slide-in power supply and the orange screen lighted-up with an 
error message that said "Invalid configuration information; code 02 Strike F1 to 
continue"
Disk Boot Error
I guess that the Hard Drive is missing.
So, please tell me the trick to opening the case.
Jeff



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2246
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 12:12:20 -0000
From: "Jeff 777"
Subject: Re: GRiDCASE 1520 - OPEN THE CASE??

> Hi Shawn,
     I found the screws and opened the case. It contains a Conner CP
> 3024 Hard Drive. I removed the Hard Drive and plugged it into a
> computer power supply and the Hard Drive did spin. It looks like a
> regular desktop hard drive instead of the shrunken laptop hard
> drives. It has the same power plug, IDE interface for a flat ribbon > cable and the same exterior case dimensions.

> I'll look for the cmos battery or the Dallas Real Time Clock Chip
> tomorrow. I guess the clock chip is a black square chip on the
> Mother-Board like the one I saw in the photos section of a
> disassembled 1535.
> Thanks for the information.
> Jeff



--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Jeff and welcome to the group.
>
> The cover above the keyboard is in fact made for a DIP chip.  It is for a a PROM
> or EPROM of whatever operating system you like to put there.  GRIDDOS, or MS-DOS
> could be put there.  I believe the majority of the chips that went there had
> MS-DOS 2.something-or-other.  The majority of Grids out there have nothing in
> those sockets.
>
> General note to the group: if anyone has either MS-DOS or Grid DOS chip, can I
> borrow them.  I'd like to copy them and add them to the Files location.
>
> I think your more important question was how to open the case.  All of my Grids
> are in storage at the moment, so I'm doing this from memory.  At the rear of the
> unit (where the serial, parallel, and power ports are) there are two rubber
> "feet".  Use a small flat blade screwdriver to gently remove those feet.  Once
> removed, you will see Phillips screws inside.  Once you remove those screws,
> lift up on the rear cover and it should slide off.  There might be a flat,
> countersunk screw on the keyboard side of the cover.  I can't remember.
>
> As far as the error, that is very common.  The "Invalid Configuration Error" is
> likely due to a dead CMOS battery.  Depending on the version of 1520 you have,
> it either has a Dallas Semiconductor 1287 Real Time Clock (or RTC for short) or
> a battery near the RAM.
> The next time you boot the Grid and you get that error, try hitting ctrl-alt-del
> and rebooting instead of powering down.  After a couple of times, it should
> attempt to boot from the hard drive.
> In the Files section of the group here on Yahoo, there should be an old copy of
> DOS that (assuming you still have a computer with a floppy drive) you can use to
> boot your Grid.
>
> Your 1520 may, or may not, have a hard drive.  If it does still have the
> original hard drive, it probably does not work any more.  Having said that,
> however, I have a hard drive that still works.  I've also thrown out at least 5
> others that don't work.
> A quirk of the 1520 is if the RTC is dead, you can't boot from the hard drive.
> It's a BIOS thing that we don't quite understand.  So, if there is a hard drive,
> it *may* still work if the RTC is replaced.
>
> I hope that helps.  Keep us posted on how thing go.
> Thanks,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jeff 777 <jeffburns777@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 2:58:04 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDCASE 1520 - OPEN THE CASE??
>
>
> I have a heavy old 1520 and I want to look inside to see if everything is in
> there.
>
> I lifted a cover just above the keyboard on the left side and found an empty
> socket for some kind of DIP chip. What is supposed to be in there??
>
> I connected the slide-in power supply and the orange screen lighted-up with an
> error message that said "Invalid configuration information; code 02 Strike F1 to
> continue"
> Disk Boot Error
> I guess that the Hard Drive is missing.
> So, please tell me the trick to opening the case.
> Jeff
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2247
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 11:22:54 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Man connects to the Internet using a 1964 modem
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Yep.  I kind of wondered about that when he said it.  He may be deaf to one tone or another, so didn't catch the shift.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: Shawnerz
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Man connects to the Internet using a 1964 modem





And I'm sure, us techno-geeks know that that guy was wrong in the video.  The modem doesn't turn a tone off and on.  It switches between two tones-1070 and 1270 Hz (originator).  Or, 2025 and 2225 Hz (answerer).  :)
-Shawn




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tom Rutherford <n8euj@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 1:55:20 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Man connects to the Internet using a 1964 modem




LOL!  Cool!  A real blast from the past.  Hey, at least he was using ASCII, not Baudot!  :-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: Shawnerz
To: grid laptops
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 10:27 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Man connects to the Internet using a 1964 modem


All,
You think your Grid is old, check this out.
http://www.wimp.com/connectsinternet/

-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2248
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 12:48:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDCASE 1520 - OPEN THE CASE??
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Jeff,
Sorry for the delay.  For some reason, your email ended up in my Spam folder. :(
Yeah, it does look like a normal IDE drive but I think the power and IDE
connectors are shifted slightly.  If you take a "normal" modern IDE drive and
try to plug it in to the drive interface board, I think you'll find that the
drive won't mate to the board.
You might notice an oily reside on the bottom of the drive.  That's an
indication that the lubrication has seeped from the bearings.  It is possible
that the drive will spin, but not be able to reach a high enough RPM.  Not
spinning high fast enough may cause the drive electronics not to be able to get
a "lock" on the data streaming from the head.
But good luck and I hope you can get some meaningful data from it.
-Shawn



________________________________
From: Jeff 777 <jeffburns777@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 8:12:20 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDCASE 1520 - OPEN THE CASE??


> Hi Shawn,
    I found the screws and opened the case. It contains a Conner CP
> 3024 Hard Drive. I removed the Hard Drive and plugged it into a
> computer power supply and the Hard Drive did spin. It looks like a
> regular desktop hard drive instead of the shrunken laptop hard
> drives. It has the same power plug, IDE interface for a flat ribbon > cable and
>the same exterior case dimensions.

> I'll look for the cmos battery or the Dallas Real Time Clock Chip
> tomorrow. I guess the clock chip is a black square chip on the 
> Mother-Board like the one I saw in the photos section of a
> disassembled 1535. 
> Thanks for the information.
> Jeff 



--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Jeff and welcome to the group.
>
> The cover above the keyboard is in fact made for a DIP chip.  It is for a a
>PROM
>
> or EPROM of whatever operating system you like to put there.  GRIDDOS, or
>MS-DOS
>
> could be put there.  I believe the majority of the chips that went there had
> MS-DOS 2.something-or-other.  The majority of Grids out there have nothing in
> those sockets.
>
> General note to the group: if anyone has either MS-DOS or Grid DOS chip, can I

> borrow them.  I'd like to copy them and add them to the Files location.
>
> I think your more important question was how to open the case.  All of my Grids
>
> are in storage at the moment, so I'm doing this from memory.  At the rear of
>the
>
> unit (where the serial, parallel, and power ports are) there are two rubber
> "feet".  Use a small flat blade screwdriver to gently remove those feet.  Once

> removed, you will see Phillips screws inside.  Once you remove those screws,
> lift up on the rear cover and it should slide off.  There might be a flat,
> countersunk screw on the keyboard side of the cover.  I can't remember.
>
> As far as the error, that is very common.  The "Invalid Configuration Error" is
>
> likely due to a dead CMOS battery.  Depending on the version of 1520 you have,

> it either has a Dallas Semiconductor 1287 Real Time Clock (or RTC for short) or
>
> a battery near the RAM.
> The next time you boot the Grid and you get that error, try hitting
>ctrl-alt-del
>
> and rebooting instead of powering down.  After a couple of times, it should
> attempt to boot from the hard drive.
> In the Files section of the group here on Yahoo, there should be an old copy of
>
> DOS that (assuming you still have a computer with a floppy drive) you can use
>to
>
> boot your Grid.
>
> Your 1520 may, or may not, have a hard drive.  If it does still have the
> original hard drive, it probably does not work any more.  Having said that,
> however, I have a hard drive that still works.  I've also thrown out at least 5
>
> others that don't work.
> A quirk of the 1520 is if the RTC is dead, you can't boot from the hard drive. 
>
> It's a BIOS thing that we don't quite understand.  So, if there is a hard
>drive,
>
> it *may* still work if the RTC is replaced.
>
> I hope that helps.  Keep us posted on how thing go.
> Thanks,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jeff 777 <jeffburns777@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 2:58:04 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiDCASE 1520 - OPEN THE CASE??
>
>
> I have a heavy old 1520 and I want to look inside to see if everything is in
> there.
>
> I lifted a cover just above the keyboard on the left side and found an empty
> socket for some kind of DIP chip. What is supposed to be in there??
>
> I connected the slide-in power supply and the orange screen lighted-up with an

> error message that said "Invalid configuration information; code 02 Strike F1
>to
>
> continue"
> Disk Boot Error
> I guess that the Hard Drive is missing.
> So, please tell me the trick to opening the case.
> Jeff
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>




------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2249
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:41:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: New Member | Grid 1520 Info
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

"My name is George and I found a gridcase 1520 in my grandfather's
basement and was wondering about possible options for use/modification."

Hello there, George.  My name is Shawn.  Your 1520 is a Intel 286 running at 16(?) MHz.  (Man, I should know that off the top of my head, but seem to have forgotten that.)
Anyway, it's probably got between 1 and 4 MB (that's megabyte) of RAM.
If it has a hard drive, it's probably a 20 MB version.  It is possible that it has the 40 or 100 MB version.  More than likely, the hard drive doesn't work.  Although, there are a few hard drives that still do work.


There isn't much as far as mods.  We're still trying different things.  I'm trying to get it to boot from Compact Flash instead of the old hard drives.  I'm not having much success.

Feel free to ask any questions you like. Poke around in the Files section, too.

-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2250
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 21:31:11 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: New Member | Grid 1520 Info

Hi George,

Shawn has it right, although the Intel 286 actually runs at 10 MHz (the 1530 runs at 12.5 MHz.) The first thing to do is see if the thing will even boot up. If it shows any life at all, the major problems that may appear are that the hard drive is shot, as Shawn noted, in which case replacement of the hard drive is all you can do, which is not easy to do, or you will have a code 02 failure, which is a dead CMOS battery, which may or may not be easy to replace, depending on your motherboard version. Past that, you cannot really modify the unit except to try and bring it back to its original specs and operating as it used to do. It's too primitive to do much of anything else, really. It was a monster top of the line computer in its day, 30 years ago, however it's just an interesting antique in today's world. But we love them anyway. :-)

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> "My name is George and I found a gridcase 1520 in my grandfather's
> basement and was wondering about possible options for use/modification."
>
> Hello there, George.  My name is Shawn.  Your 1520 is a Intel 286 running at 16(?) MHz.  (Man, I should know that off the top of my head, but seem to have forgotten that.)
> Anyway, it's probably got between 1 and 4 MB (that's megabyte) of RAM.
> If it has a hard drive, it's probably a 20 MB version.  It is possible that it has the 40 or 100 MB version.  More than likely, the hard drive doesn't work.  Although, there are a few hard drives that still do work.
>
>
> There isn't much as far as mods.  We're still trying different things.  I'm trying to get it to boot from Compact Flash instead of the old hard drives.  I'm not having much success.
>
> Feel free to ask any questions you like. Poke around in the Files section, too.
>
> -Shawn
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2251
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2011 06:22:20 -0000
From: "ballsandy101"
Subject: GRiD Convertible 2260 AC adapter

I have two of these, one being rebadged by AST and neither has the miniDIN-8 AC adapter it needs to work or charge.

Might anyone have the pinout for the adapter so I could fabricate my own adapter?

Yahoo! Message number: 2252
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 14:44:48 +0100 (BST)
From: Bob Sayers
Subject: Classic computers for sale
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Hi, All,
 
As a result of a clear-out prior to moving house, I am about to part with a number of classic computers. These will shortly include a number of GriD and Husky items not yet sorted and listed, but I have two "green" tactical models already available:
 
1: MBM Technology 450N "Locust" tactical laptop (about half the width of the average laptop!)
 
2: Zengrange "Gunzen" mortar and artillery calculation handheld, based on HP HP-41 hardware
 
Check these (and many other items I am parting with) on my personal clearance site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ForSaleAndWanted/  by now this should have images of both the above (check "Photos" from the Home Page) or please contact me off-list for any further information.
 
regards,
 
Bob

Yahoo! Message number: 2253
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 09:55:05 -0400
From: "Len.C"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Classic computers for sale
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Kinda hard to check photos when it is a members only site.

On 8/2/2011 9:44 AM, Bob Sayers wrote:
>
> Hi, All,
> As a result of a clear-out prior to moving house, I am about to part 
> with a number of classic computers. These will shortly include a 
> number of GriD and Husky items not yet sorted and listed, but I have 
> two "green" tactical models already available:
> 1: MBM Technology 450N "Locust" tactical laptop (about half the width 
> of the average laptop!)
> 2: Zengrange "Gunzen" mortar and artillery calculation handheld, based 
> on HP HP-41 hardware
> Check these (and many other items I am parting with) on my personal 
> clearance site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ForSaleAndWanted/  by now 
> this should have images of both the above (check "Photos" from the 
> Home Page) or please contact me off-list for any further information.
> regards,
> Bob
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2254
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 14:38:30 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

any one have a source for a fresh new Dallas time chip ??

i know about the battery cut and replace
but would prefer to do a new chip if i can
got a couple 1520's i want to put back in service on packet radio
and they are brain dead
dave
wd8cyv in west virginia usa

been playing with my motorcycles
so the computers got set aside for a while

Yahoo! Message number: 2255
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 09:37:31 -0700
From: jim s
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Classic computers for sale
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

You don't have to do much to join if you have a yahoo login, just enter 
a capcha.
Bob, some prices were states in pounds, or maybe euros (was not a $).  
where are you located?

The last postings were from march saying a lot was going to long term 
storage, what is the schedule for this stuff?
Jim

On 8/2/2011 6:44 AM, Bob Sayers wrote:
>
>
> Hi, All,
> As a result of a clear-out prior to moving house, I am about to part 
> with a number of classic computers. These will shortly include a 
> number of GriD and Husky items not yet sorted and listed, but I have 
> two "green" tactical models already available:
> 1: MBM Technology 450N "Locust" tactical laptop (about half the width 
> of the average laptop!)
> 2: Zengrange "Gunzen" mortar and artillery calculation handheld, based 
> on HP HP-41 hardware
> Check these (and many other items I am parting with) on my personal 
> clearance site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ForSaleAndWanted/  by now 
> this should have images of both the above (check "Photos" from the 
> Home Page) or please contact me off-list for any further information.
> regards,
> Bob
>
>
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2256
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 04:06:41 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

Hey, Dave

You can google the 1287A and find some places that still sell it. Here's one I picked out:

http://www.electronicplus.com/content/productpage.asp?pagenum=5&lname=&maincat=c&subcat=cli

There are others if you want to look elsewhere. The chip will be roughly $20.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
> any one have a source for a fresh new Dallas time chip ??
>
> i know about the battery cut and replace
> but would prefer to do a new chip if i can
> got a couple 1520's i want to put back in service on packet radio
> and they are brain dead
> dave
> wd8cyv in west virginia usa
>
> been playing with my motorcycles
> so the computers got set aside for a while
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2257
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 09:42:35 -0000
From: "BobS"
Subject: Re: Classic computers for sale

Costs nothing to join, Len, and you don't even need a yahoo email account. It will also be the route via which I advertise all the GriD and Husky items in the next couple of weeks. I am also currently parting with a couple of "green" tactical ruggedised PCs, which while not GRid will, I'm sure, be of interest to many members of this group.

If anyone would like me to "join" them automatically, please email me off-list.

best regards,


Bob




--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Len.C" <lennard.gc@...> wrote:
>
> Kinda hard to check photos when it is a members only site.
>
> On 8/2/2011 9:44 AM, Bob Sayers wrote:
> >
> > Hi, All,
> > As a result of a clear-out prior to moving house, I am about to part
> > with a number of classic computers. These will shortly include a
> > number of GriD and Husky items not yet sorted and listed, but I have
> > two "green" tactical models already available:
> > 1: MBM Technology 450N "Locust" tactical laptop (about half the width
> > of the average laptop!)
> > 2: Zengrange "Gunzen" mortar and artillery calculation handheld, based
> > on HP HP-41 hardware
> > Check these (and many other items I am parting with) on my personal
> > clearance site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ForSaleAndWanted/  by now
> > this should have images of both the above (check "Photos" from the
> > Home Page) or please contact me off-list for any further information.
> > regards,
> > Bob
> >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2258
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 09:46:07 -0000
From: "BobS"
Subject: Re: Classic computers for sale

Hi, Jim,

All prices should be in Ł (UK pounds); I'm located in the centre of the UK, about 12 miles South of Birmingham. Items are steadily being placed into storage, although I have got a few back out for a Garage-type Sale at home last weekend, which may be repeated in a couple of weeks time. As I clear items from the loft and storage and either sell them or place them into "new" storage, however, I'm uncovering a few more items that i couldn't get to previously!

best regards,

bob

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, jim s <jws@...> wrote:
>
> You don't have to do much to join if you have a yahoo login, just enter
> a capcha.
> Bob, some prices were states in pounds, or maybe euros (was not a $).
> where are you located?
>
> The last postings were from march saying a lot was going to long term
> storage, what is the schedule for this stuff?
> Jim
>
> On 8/2/2011 6:44 AM, Bob Sayers wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi, All,
> > As a result of a clear-out prior to moving house, I am about to part
> > with a number of classic computers. These will shortly include a
> > number of GriD and Husky items not yet sorted and listed, but I have
> > two "green" tactical models already available:
> > 1: MBM Technology 450N "Locust" tactical laptop (about half the width
> > of the average laptop!)
> > 2: Zengrange "Gunzen" mortar and artillery calculation handheld, based
> > on HP HP-41 hardware
> > Check these (and many other items I am parting with) on my personal
> > clearance site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ForSaleAndWanted/  by now
> > this should have images of both the above (check "Photos" from the
> > Home Page) or please contact me off-list for any further information.
> > regards,
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2259
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 09:50:13 -0000
From: "BobS"
Subject: Re: Classic computers for sale

Apologies, the model name of the first item below should be "Termite". All other deatils are corect.

regards,

Bob

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Bob Sayers <bobsayers2000@...> wrote:
>
>  
> 1: MBM Technology 450N "Locust" tactical laptop (about half the width of the average laptop!)
>  

Yahoo! Message number: 2260
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:15:55 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

i am finding an a and a B version
are they the same and b is just a fresher battery ????

i did have some pulls from some older computers
but they have not been used but due to age
i do not think there battery would be any good

is there a date made code on them


any thing special need done to computer or just let it boot

and hold down the F key if i want the floppy to be the boot drive

its like starting over i have not played with these since 2004 or earlier
had a bad motorcycle wreck in dec of 2007 that laid me up for a bit
and just kind of got out of the computer stuff
dave
hope these run they work good on packet radio and rtty

Yahoo! Message number: 2261
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 18:35:21 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

Dave,

The 1287A and 1287B have reset pins where shorting them to ground will restore the default values of the RTC. You don't need the 1287B. Stick with the 1287A. The 1287B has some extra modification which has no bearing to the 1520, but I can't recall what that is.

However, be aware that in some 1520's, changing out the Dallas RTC will change the password code that the computer recognizes as being the original RTC of the computer. This apparently was a security measure instituted by GRiD since these computers were often used by the military and other government purposes. In these cases, if you replace the Dallas RTC with a new one, the computer will not recognize the new chip and ask for the 'original' password. If it doesn't get the password, it will reboot and go through POST again to the same question asking for the same password in an uninterruptable loop.

There is no way to answer the password question because the BIOS has no code at all to answer it, therefore the loop will lock you out of the computer. There is a fix which I was able to develop, which is in the threads some time back, but it involves having to reprogram the BIOS and burning new EPROM BIOS chips to take the place of the original ones in the computer. The reprogramming itself is easy. It's the burning of new EPROM chips that is a problem if you don't have the equipment to do it. The only ones here on the forum of whom I know can do it are Shawn and myself.

You may want to consider the RTC modification again in light of this.

Phil



--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
> i am finding an a and a B version
> are they the same and b is just a fresher battery ????
>
> i did have some pulls from some older computers
> but they have not been used but due to age
> i do not think there battery would be any good
>
> is there a date made code on them
>
>
> any thing special need done to computer or just let it boot
>
> and hold down the F key if i want the floppy to be the boot drive
>
> its like starting over i have not played with these since 2004 or earlier
> had a bad motorcycle wreck in dec of 2007 that laid me up for a bit
> and just kind of got out of the computer stuff
> dave
> hope these run they work good on packet radio and rtty
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2262
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 01:47:11 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

i did not have any pass words in use so would this
still be a problem

i do not use passwords to lock up a computer
all they do is keep you out   and the guy that wants in will
get there but the darn thing will keep you out
dave

friend of mine is also saying grind the top off the chip
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> The 1287A and 1287B have reset pins where shorting them to ground will restore the default values of the RTC. You don't need the 1287B. Stick with the 1287A. The 1287B has some extra modification which has no bearing to the 1520, but I can't recall what that is.
>
> However, be aware that in some 1520's, changing out the Dallas RTC will change the password code that the computer recognizes as being the original RTC of the computer. This apparently was a security measure instituted by GRiD since these computers were often used by the military and other government purposes. In these cases, if you replace the Dallas RTC with a new one, the computer will not recognize the new chip and ask for the 'original' password. If it doesn't get the password, it will reboot and go through POST again to the same question asking for the same password in an uninterruptable loop.
>
> There is no way to answer the password question because the BIOS has no code at all to answer it, therefore the loop will lock you out of the computer. There is a fix which I was able to develop, which is in the threads some time back, but it involves having to reprogram the BIOS and burning new EPROM BIOS chips to take the place of the original ones in the computer. The reprogramming itself is easy. It's the burning of new EPROM chips that is a problem if you don't have the equipment to do it. The only ones here on the forum of whom I know can do it are Shawn and myself.
>
> You may want to consider the RTC modification again in light of this.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@> wrote:
> >
> > i am finding an a and a B version
> > are they the same and b is just a fresher battery ????
> >
> > i did have some pulls from some older computers
> > but they have not been used but due to age 
> > i do not think there battery would be any good
> >
> > is there a date made code on them
> >
> >
> > any thing special need done to computer or just let it boot
> >
> > and hold down the F key if i want the floppy to be the boot drive
> >
> > its like starting over i have not played with these since 2004 or earlier
> > had a bad motorcycle wreck in dec of 2007 that laid me up for a bit
> > and just kind of got out of the computer stuff
> > dave
> > hope these run they work good on packet radio and rtty
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2263
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 03:50:34 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

You don't have to have any password at all. Even if you never enter or use any kind of password, there are still eight bits of the memory in the RTC which has some data in it which will be recognized by the computer as belonging to that particular RTC chip. That's the ironic thing in that there never was a 'password' at all in the first place. It's just eight bytes of data the computer uses to recognize that particular chip as unique.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...> wrote:
>
> i did not have any pass words in use so would this
> still be a problem
>
> i do not use passwords to lock up a computer
> all they do is keep you out   and the guy that wants in will
> get there but the darn thing will keep you out
> dave
>
> friend of mine is also saying grind the top off the chip
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > The 1287A and 1287B have reset pins where shorting them to ground will restore the default values of the RTC. You don't need the 1287B. Stick with the 1287A. The 1287B has some extra modification which has no bearing to the 1520, but I can't recall what that is.
> >
> > However, be aware that in some 1520's, changing out the Dallas RTC will change the password code that the computer recognizes as being the original RTC of the computer. This apparently was a security measure instituted by GRiD since these computers were often used by the military and other government purposes. In these cases, if you replace the Dallas RTC with a new one, the computer will not recognize the new chip and ask for the 'original' password. If it doesn't get the password, it will reboot and go through POST again to the same question asking for the same password in an uninterruptable loop.
> >
> > There is no way to answer the password question because the BIOS has no code at all to answer it, therefore the loop will lock you out of the computer. There is a fix which I was able to develop, which is in the threads some time back, but it involves having to reprogram the BIOS and burning new EPROM BIOS chips to take the place of the original ones in the computer. The reprogramming itself is easy. It's the burning of new EPROM chips that is a problem if you don't have the equipment to do it. The only ones here on the forum of whom I know can do it are Shawn and myself.
> >
> > You may want to consider the RTC modification again in light of this.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@> wrote:
> > >
> > > i am finding an a and a B version
> > > are they the same and b is just a fresher battery ????
> > >
> > > i did have some pulls from some older computers
> > > but they have not been used but due to age
> > > i do not think there battery would be any good
> > >
> > > is there a date made code on them
> > >
> > >
> > > any thing special need done to computer or just let it boot
> > >
> > > and hold down the F key if i want the floppy to be the boot drive
> > >
> > > its like starting over i have not played with these since 2004 or earlier
> > > had a bad motorcycle wreck in dec of 2007 that laid me up for a bit
> > > and just kind of got out of the computer stuff
> > > dave
> > > hope these run they work good on packet radio and rtty
> > >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2264
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 13:19:43 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

then grind the top off it is
dave wd8cyv
thanks guys

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> You don't have to have any password at all. Even if you never enter or use any kind of password, there are still eight bits of the memory in the RTC which has some data in it which will be recognized by the computer as belonging to that particular RTC chip. That's the ironic thing in that there never was a 'password' at all in the first place. It's just eight bytes of data the computer uses to recognize that particular chip as unique.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@> wrote:
> >
> > i did not have any pass words in use so would this
> > still be a problem
> >
> > i do not use passwords to lock up a computer
> > all they do is keep you out   and the guy that wants in will
> > get there but the darn thing will keep you out
> > dave
> >
> > friend of mine is also saying grind the top off the chip
> > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dave,
> > >
> > > The 1287A and 1287B have reset pins where shorting them to ground will restore the default values of the RTC. You don't need the 1287B. Stick with the 1287A. The 1287B has some extra modification which has no bearing to the 1520, but I can't recall what that is.
> > >
> > > However, be aware that in some 1520's, changing out the Dallas RTC will change the password code that the computer recognizes as being the original RTC of the computer. This apparently was a security measure instituted by GRiD since these computers were often used by the military and other government purposes. In these cases, if you replace the Dallas RTC with a new one, the computer will not recognize the new chip and ask for the 'original' password. If it doesn't get the password, it will reboot and go through POST again to the same question asking for the same password in an uninterruptable loop.
> > >
> > > There is no way to answer the password question because the BIOS has no code at all to answer it, therefore the loop will lock you out of the computer. There is a fix which I was able to develop, which is in the threads some time back, but it involves having to reprogram the BIOS and burning new EPROM BIOS chips to take the place of the original ones in the computer. The reprogramming itself is easy. It's the burning of new EPROM chips that is a problem if you don't have the equipment to do it. The only ones here on the forum of whom I know can do it are Shawn and myself.
> > >
> > > You may want to consider the RTC modification again in light of this.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > i am finding an a and a B version
> > > > are they the same and b is just a fresher battery ????
> > > >
> > > > i did have some pulls from some older computers
> > > > but they have not been used but due to age
> > > > i do not think there battery would be any good
> > > >
> > > > is there a date made code on them
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > any thing special need done to computer or just let it boot
> > > >
> > > > and hold down the F key if i want the floppy to be the boot drive
> > > >
> > > > its like starting over i have not played with these since 2004 or earlier
> > > > had a bad motorcycle wreck in dec of 2007 that laid me up for a bit
> > > > and just kind of got out of the computer stuff
> > > > dave
> > > > hope these run they work good on packet radio and rtty
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2265
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 13:31:11 -0700
From: jim s
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

Dave,
What Phil said is that the garbage in the part after you restore 
functionality will result in the bios thinking there is a password, and 
locking you out.  There is no good way out.  if you fix it, and restore 
power it will prompt for the password you can't supply.  if you leave it 
dead, it will just have to run thru setup every boot.  This was a 
problem I recall in some bios lock implementations in open PC's where 
you could just remove the battery , boot, then the password was gone.

Jim

On 8/4/2011 6:19 AM, wd8cyv wrote:
> then grind the top off it is
> dave wd8cyv
> thanks guys
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian"<Jeriddian@...>  wrote:
>> You don't have to have any password at all. Even if you never enter or use any kind of password, there are still eight bits of the memory in the RTC which has some data in it which will be recognized by the computer as belonging to that particular RTC chip. That's the ironic thing in that there never was a 'password' at all in the first place. It's just eight bytes of data the computer uses to recognize that particular chip as unique.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv"<wd8cyv@>  wrote:
>>> i did not have any pass words in use so would this
>>> still be a problem
>>>
>>> i do not use passwords to lock up a computer
>>> all they do is keep you out   and the guy that wants in will
>>> get there but the darn thing will keep you out
>>> dave
>>>
>>> friend of mine is also saying grind the top off the chip
>>> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian"<Jeriddian@>  wrote:
>>>> Dave,
>>>>
>>>> The 1287A and 1287B have reset pins where shorting them to ground will restore the default values of the RTC. You don't need the 1287B. Stick with the 1287A. The 1287B has some extra modification which has no bearing to the 1520, but I can't recall what that is.
>>>>
>>>> However, be aware that in some 1520's, changing out the Dallas RTC will change the password code that the computer recognizes as being the original RTC of the computer. This apparently was a security measure instituted by GRiD since these computers were often used by the military and other government purposes. In these cases, if you replace the Dallas RTC with a new one, the computer will not recognize the new chip and ask for the 'original' password. If it doesn't get the password, it will reboot and go through POST again to the same question asking for the same password in an uninterruptable loop.
>>>>
>>>> There is no way to answer the password question because the BIOS has no code at all to answer it, therefore the loop will lock you out of the computer. There is a fix which I was able to develop, which is in the threads some time back, but it involves having to reprogram the BIOS and burning new EPROM BIOS chips to take the place of the original ones in the computer. The reprogramming itself is easy. It's the burning of new EPROM chips that is a problem if you don't have the equipment to do it. The only ones here on the forum of whom I know can do it are Shawn and myself.
>>>>
>>>> You may want to consider the RTC modification again in light of this.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "wd8cyv"<wd8cyv@>  wrote:
>>>>> i am finding an a and a B version
>>>>> are they the same and b is just a fresher battery ????
>>>>>
>>>>> i did have some pulls from some older computers
>>>>> but they have not been used but due to age
>>>>> i do not think there battery would be any good
>>>>>
>>>>> is there a date made code on them
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> any thing special need done to computer or just let it boot
>>>>>
>>>>> and hold down the F key if i want the floppy to be the boot drive
>>>>>
>>>>> its like starting over i have not played with these since 2004 or earlier
>>>>> had a bad motorcycle wreck in dec of 2007 that laid me up for a bit
>>>>> and just kind of got out of the computer stuff
>>>>> dave
>>>>> hope these run they work good on packet radio and rtty
>>>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2266
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 19:43:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Some time ago the group was contacted by an ex-employee of Grid, who belonged to a group of ex-Grid employees, but there was no feedback. IIRC he said that there was a default password which employees used when users lost their passwords. Perhaps Shawn could find some contact for this. Good to see you back Dave. I haven't played with my Grid 1520 for years, but after upgrading SIPP memory like Dave did, with hard-found SIPPs, my HD finally gave up. Since I don't have an EPROM  burner to write the new BIOS which Shawn went to such great lengths to find, I also gave up.

I do have a vintage computer repair-man and friend who I believe does have an EPROM burner and I'm dallying with the idea of resurrecting this beloved beast.
It seems nowadays I spend more time just keeping my XP desktop and Pavillion Laptop going than I ever spent on a half-dozen or more vintage beasts.

Lawrence.

Yahoo! Message number: 2267
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 20:19:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

All,
My memory is a little fuzzy.  I kind of remember an ex-Grid employee, but I don't think he contributed much.  I lost track of him.
Can you believe that there are 191 members of this group?  Perhaps the ex-Grid employee is still with us and just lurks.  If so, speak up! :)
With 191 members, it seems the same 5 or 6 make the majority of the posts.  HHmmm....
-Shawn

From: Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...>
To: "RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??





Some time ago the group was contacted by an ex-employee of Grid, who belonged to a group of ex-Grid employees, but there was no feedback. IIRC he said that there was a default password which employees used when users lost their passwords. Perhaps Shawn could find some contact for this. Good to see you back Dave. I haven't played with my Grid 1520 for years, but after upgrading SIPP memory like Dave did, with hard-found SIPPs, my HD finally gave up. Since I don't have an EPROM  burner to write the new BIOS which Shawn went to such great lengths to find, I also gave up.

I do have a vintage computer repair-man and friend who I believe does have an EPROM burner and I'm dallying with the idea of resurrecting this beloved beast.
It seems nowadays I spend more time just keeping my XP desktop and Pavillion Laptop going than I ever spent on a half-dozen or more vintage beasts.

Lawrence.

Yahoo! Message number: 2268
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 13:40:31 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

i would give up on the 1520 but it works so nice on rtty and packet
and i do like the yellow screen when word processing
and of course the feel of the keyboard is excellent
dave


--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> All,
> My memory is a little fuzzy.  I kind of remember an ex-Grid employee, but I don't think he contributed much.  I lost track of him.
> Can you believe that there are 191 members of this group?  Perhaps the ex-Grid employee is still with us and just lurks.  If so, speak up! :)
> With 191 members, it seems the same 5 or 6 make the majority of the posts.  HHmmm....
> -Shawn
>
> From: Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...>
> To: "RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 10:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??
>
>
>
>
>
> Some time ago the group was contacted by an ex-employee of Grid, who belonged to a group of ex-Grid employees, but there was no feedback. IIRC he said that there was a default password which employees used when users lost their passwords. Perhaps Shawn could find some contact for this. Good to see you back Dave. I haven't played with my Grid 1520 for years, but after upgrading SIPP memory like Dave did, with hard-found SIPPs, my HD finally gave up. Since I don't have an EPROM  burner to write the new BIOS which Shawn went to such great lengths to find, I also gave up.
>
> I do have a vintage computer repair-man and friend who I believe does have an EPROM burner and I'm dallying with the idea of resurrecting this beloved beast.
> It seems nowadays I spend more time just keeping my XP desktop and Pavillion Laptop going than I ever spent on a half-dozen or more vintage beasts.
>
> Lawrence.
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2269
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 13:05:18 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

IIRC, the 1520 doesn't have a 16550 UART.  If you set the DTE rate to 9600 
to connect with your TNC, do you also have to do anything to desable RTS 
during disk writes?  It's been a while since I've done packet, so I'm not 
even sure if programs like paKet have that sort of option.  Of course, I 
still have Qmodem 4.6 Test Drive.  :-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 9:40 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??


i would give up on the 1520 but it works so nice on rtty and packet
and i do like the yellow screen when word processing
and of course the feel of the keyboard is excellent
dave


--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> All,
> My memory is a little fuzzy. I kind of remember an ex-Grid employee, but I 
> don't think he contributed much. I lost track of him.
> Can you believe that there are 191 members of this group? Perhaps the 
> ex-Grid employee is still with us and just lurks. If so, speak up! :)
> With 191 members, it seems the same 5 or 6 make the majority of the posts. 
> HHmmm....
> -Shawn
>
> From: Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@...>
> To: "RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 10:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??
>
>
>
>
>
> Some time ago the group was contacted by an ex-employee of Grid, who 
> belonged to a group of ex-Grid employees, but there was no feedback. IIRC 
> he said that there was a default password which employees used when users 
> lost their passwords. Perhaps Shawn could find some contact for this. Good 
> to see you back Dave. I haven't played with my Grid 1520 for years, but 
> after upgrading SIPP memory like Dave did, with hard-found SIPPs, my HD 
> finally gave up. Since I don't have an EPROM burner to write the new BIOS 
> which Shawn went to such great lengths to find, I also gave up.
>
> I do have a vintage computer repair-man and friend who I believe does have 
> an EPROM burner and I'm dallying with the idea of resurrecting this 
> beloved beast.
> It seems nowadays I spend more time just keeping my XP desktop and 
> Pavillion Laptop going than I ever spent on a half-dozen or more vintage 
> beasts.
>
> Lawrence.
>




------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2270
Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2011 18:14:57 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

i use a packet tone adaptor made for baycom 1.6
i do not use a unit like a kantronics kpc3
the bay com runs it out the serial port
the modem is just a tone decoder
computer does the whole thing
dave

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>
> IIRC, the 1520 doesn't have a 16550 UART.  If you set the DTE rate to 9600
> to connect with your TNC, do you also have to do anything to desable RTS
> during disk writes?  It's been a while since I've done packet, so I'm not
> even sure if programs like paKet have that sort of option.  Of course, I
> still have Qmodem 4.6 Test Drive.  :-)
>
> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...>
> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 9:40 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??
>
>
> i would give up on the 1520 but it works so nice on rtty and packet
> and i do like the yellow screen when word processing
> and of course the feel of the keyboard is excellent
> dave
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@> wrote:
> >
> > All,
> > My memory is a little fuzzy. I kind of remember an ex-Grid employee, but I
> > don't think he contributed much. I lost track of him.
> > Can you believe that there are 191 members of this group? Perhaps the
> > ex-Grid employee is still with us and just lurks. If so, speak up! :)
> > With 191 members, it seems the same 5 or 6 make the majority of the posts.
> > HHmmm....
> > -Shawn
> >
> > From: Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@>
> > To: "RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 10:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Some time ago the group was contacted by an ex-employee of Grid, who
> > belonged to a group of ex-Grid employees, but there was no feedback. IIRC
> > he said that there was a default password which employees used when users
> > lost their passwords. Perhaps Shawn could find some contact for this. Good
> > to see you back Dave. I haven't played with my Grid 1520 for years, but
> > after upgrading SIPP memory like Dave did, with hard-found SIPPs, my HD
> > finally gave up. Since I don't have an EPROM burner to write the new BIOS 
> > which Shawn went to such great lengths to find, I also gave up.
> >
> > I do have a vintage computer repair-man and friend who I believe does have
> > an EPROM burner and I'm dallying with the idea of resurrecting this 
> > beloved beast.
> > It seems nowadays I spend more time just keeping my XP desktop and
> > Pavillion Laptop going than I ever spent on a half-dozen or more vintage
> > beasts.
> >
> > Lawrence.
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2271
Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2011 19:03:10 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

here is a link to what i use
dave
http://www.tigertronics.com/bp2info.htm


> i use a packet tone adaptor made for baycom 1.6
> i do not use a unit like a kantronics kpc3
> the bay com runs it out the serial port
> the modem is just a tone decoder
> computer does the whole thing
> dave
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2272
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 11:17:49 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

That's cool, but without the computing power of the TNC, you have to keep 
the computer running all the time, don't you?  At least, the TNC has a 
mailbox and BBS built in so that you can thrn the computer off, and it 
leaves a packet presence for you.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 2:14 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??


>i use a packet tone adaptor made for baycom 1.6
> i do not use a unit like a kantronics kpc3
> the bay com runs it out the serial port
> the modem is just a tone decoder
> computer does the whole thing
> dave
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>>
>> IIRC, the 1520 doesn't have a 16550 UART.  If you set the DTE rate to 
>> 9600
>> to connect with your TNC, do you also have to do anything to desable RTS
>> during disk writes?  It's been a while since I've done packet, so I'm not
>> even sure if programs like paKet have that sort of option.  Of course, I
>> still have Qmodem 4.6 Test Drive.  :-)
>>
>> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...>
>> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 9:40 AM
>> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??
>>
>>
>> i would give up on the 1520 but it works so nice on rtty and packet
>> and i do like the yellow screen when word processing
>> and of course the feel of the keyboard is excellent
>> dave
>>
>>
>> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@> wrote:
>> >
>> > All,
>> > My memory is a little fuzzy. I kind of remember an ex-Grid employee, 
>> > but I
>> > don't think he contributed much. I lost track of him.
>> > Can you believe that there are 191 members of this group? Perhaps the
>> > ex-Grid employee is still with us and just lurks. If so, speak up! :)
>> > With 191 members, it seems the same 5 or 6 make the majority of the 
>> > posts.
>> > HHmmm....
>> > -Shawn
>> >
>> > From: Lawrence Walker <bigwalk_ca@>
>> > To: "RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 10:43 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Some time ago the group was contacted by an ex-employee of Grid, who
>> > belonged to a group of ex-Grid employees, but there was no feedback. 
>> > IIRC
>> > he said that there was a default password which employees used when 
>> > users
>> > lost their passwords. Perhaps Shawn could find some contact for this. 
>> > Good
>> > to see you back Dave. I haven't played with my Grid 1520 for years, but
>> > after upgrading SIPP memory like Dave did, with hard-found SIPPs, my HD
>> > finally gave up. Since I don't have an EPROM burner to write the new 
>> > BIOS
>> > which Shawn went to such great lengths to find, I also gave up.
>> >
>> > I do have a vintage computer repair-man and friend who I believe does 
>> > have
>> > an EPROM burner and I'm dallying with the idea of resurrecting this
>> > beloved beast.
>> > It seems nowadays I spend more time just keeping my XP desktop and
>> > Pavillion Laptop going than I ever spent on a half-dozen or more 
>> > vintage
>> > beasts.
>> >
>> > Lawrence.
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2273
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 11:24:27 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

Thanks!  I like the looks of the BP2M.  When I get more flush, I plan to 
grab me one, and do a little playing.  I especially like the multi-mode 
aspect of it, since I've wanted to do some SSTV.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 3:03 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??


> here is a link to what i use
> dave
> http://www.tigertronics.com/bp2info.htm
>
>
>> i use a packet tone adaptor made for baycom 1.6
>> i do not use a unit like a kantronics kpc3
>> the bay com runs it out the serial port
>> the modem is just a tone decoder
>> computer does the whole thing
>> dave
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2274
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 15:24:50 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

i use an old dell 386 with 4 floppy drives
that way no hard drive running

there is a 8088 running a 2meter repeater  at the stepsons house
its got a 10meg mfm hd  its been on and never shut off
since 1988
dave
i am afraid to shut it off as it may not boot again

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks!  I like the looks of the BP2M.  When I get more flush, I plan to
> grab me one, and do a little playing.  I especially like the multi-mode
> aspect of it, since I've wanted to do some SSTV.
>
> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...>
> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 3:03 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??
>
>
> > here is a link to what i use
> > dave
> > http://www.tigertronics.com/bp2info.htm
> >
> >
> >> i use a packet tone adaptor made for baycom 1.6
> >> i do not use a unit like a kantronics kpc3
> >> the bay com runs it out the serial port
> >> the modem is just a tone decoder
> >> computer does the whole thing
> >> dave
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2275
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 12:37:57 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

Four floppies?  You must have a non-standard controller card or two, or 
you've done some hardware hacking to move an IRQ line so that it attaches to 
one of the cards where IRQ6 usually attaches, if my memory of ISA 
architecture is accurate.  At any rate, that's neat.  Now, I sort of wish 
I'd held onto that old NEC MultiSpeed EL lapful I had years ago.  It had a 
couple of 720K floppy drives in it that I could've used.  It was slower than 
molasses in January on the dark side of Neptune, but it did work.

Yes, "stiction" was a problem with some of the old ST-412 interface hard 
drives, but the worst offender was the Seagate ST-251.  I had an ST-213 
(10MB) that worked up until the day I gave it away, but it was noisy as 
heck.  It had spent several years running 24/7 on a BBS, though.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 11:24 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??


>i use an old dell 386 with 4 floppy drives
> that way no hard drive running
>
> there is a 8088 running a 2meter repeater  at the stepsons house
> its got a 10meg mfm hd  its been on and never shut off
> since 1988
> dave
> i am afraid to shut it off as it may not boot again
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks!  I like the looks of the BP2M.  When I get more flush, I plan to
>> grab me one, and do a little playing.  I especially like the multi-mode
>> aspect of it, since I've wanted to do some SSTV.
>>
>> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...>
>> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 3:03 PM
>> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??
>>
>>
>> > here is a link to what i use
>> > dave
>> > http://www.tigertronics.com/bp2info.htm
>> >
>> >
>> >> i use a packet tone adaptor made for baycom 1.6
>> >> i do not use a unit like a kantronics kpc3
>> >> the bay com runs it out the serial port
>> >> the modem is just a tone decoder
>> >> computer does the whole thing
>> >> dave
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2276
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 05:22:12 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

my 80 meter antenna is down right now
later we need to talk on 80 meters some night we are close enough
to do it i am about 100 miles southeast of Columbus Ohio
and we can do 3811 after the wv phone net some evening
dave
280 miles app

special 8bit controller card i am going to cry the day it dies
it was expensive back when and rare as hens teeth
and will run 4 1.44 meg floppy and they stop running if computer
does not access them after a few minutes
i am going to use it on a 2 meter repeater as a controller
it can be set up if it crashes to reboot by its self
just send a tone to repeater  to turn power off and back on
1.44x4=5.7 meg makes for a great rtty or packet station with baycom 1.6   and the repeater controller mod works good also
its just hard to find a nice 386 that still runs
in the repeater mode monitor is shut off once set up
dave



--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>
> Four floppies?  You must have a non-standard controller card or two, or
> you've done some hardware hacking to move an IRQ line so that it attaches to
> one of the cards where IRQ6 usually attaches, if my memory of ISA
> architecture is accurate.  At any rate, that's neat.  Now, I sort of wish
> I'd held onto that old NEC MultiSpeed EL lapful I had years ago.  It had a
> couple of 720K floppy drives in it that I could've used.  It was slower than
> molasses in January on the dark side of Neptune, but it did work.
>
> Yes, "stiction" was a problem with some of the old ST-412 interface hard
> drives, but the worst offender was the Seagate ST-251.  I had an ST-213
> (10MB) that worked up until the day I gave it away, but it was noisy as
> heck.  It had spent several years running 24/7 on a BBS, though.
>
> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...>
> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 11:24 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??
>
>
> >i use an old dell 386 with 4 floppy drives
> > that way no hard drive running
> >
> > there is a 8088 running a 2meter repeater  at the stepsons house
> > its got a 10meg mfm hd  its been on and never shut off
> > since 1988
> > dave
> > i am afraid to shut it off as it may not boot again
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks!  I like the looks of the BP2M.  When I get more flush, I plan to
> >> grab me one, and do a little playing.  I especially like the multi-mode
> >> aspect of it, since I've wanted to do some SSTV.
> >>
> >> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> >> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@>
> >> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 3:03 PM
> >> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??
> >>
> >>
> >> > here is a link to what i use
> >> > dave
> >> > http://www.tigertronics.com/bp2info.htm
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> i use a packet tone adaptor made for baycom 1.6
> >> >> i do not use a unit like a kantronics kpc3
> >> >> the bay com runs it out the serial port
> >> >> the modem is just a tone decoder
> >> >> computer does the whole thing
> >> >> dave
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2277
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 11:21:35 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??

It would be nice to work you sometime, Dave, but the problem is, I live in 
an apartment that makes a really good Faraday cage, and the balcony is just 
big enough for a couple of 2m antennas.  I don't have any MF or HF gear at 
all, and no way to use it if I had it.  I'm strictly 2m, 1.5m, and 70cm 
here.

I doubt that that controller card will ever croak.  Probably the worst thing 
that'll happen to it is the copper on it will turn green, if it hasn't 
already.  :-)  As for '386 systems, I might actually still have a '386 
motherboard here that has a 40MHz chip on it.  If I do, would you like to 
have it?

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 1:22 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??


> my 80 meter antenna is down right now
> later we need to talk on 80 meters some night we are close enough
> to do it i am about 100 miles southeast of Columbus Ohio
> and we can do 3811 after the wv phone net some evening
> dave
> 280 miles app
>
> special 8bit controller card i am going to cry the day it dies
> it was expensive back when and rare as hens teeth
> and will run 4 1.44 meg floppy and they stop running if computer
> does not access them after a few minutes
> i am going to use it on a 2 meter repeater as a controller
> it can be set up if it crashes to reboot by its self
> just send a tone to repeater  to turn power off and back on
> 1.44x4=5.7 meg makes for a great rtty or packet station with baycom 1.6 
> and the repeater controller mod works good also
> its just hard to find a nice 386 that still runs
> in the repeater mode monitor is shut off once set up
> dave
>
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>>
>> Four floppies?  You must have a non-standard controller card or two, or
>> you've done some hardware hacking to move an IRQ line so that it attaches 
>> to
>> one of the cards where IRQ6 usually attaches, if my memory of ISA
>> architecture is accurate.  At any rate, that's neat.  Now, I sort of wish
>> I'd held onto that old NEC MultiSpeed EL lapful I had years ago.  It had 
>> a
>> couple of 720K floppy drives in it that I could've used.  It was slower 
>> than
>> molasses in January on the dark side of Neptune, but it did work.
>>
>> Yes, "stiction" was a problem with some of the old ST-412 interface hard
>> drives, but the worst offender was the Seagate ST-251.  I had an ST-213
>> (10MB) that worked up until the day I gave it away, but it was noisy as
>> heck.  It had spent several years running 24/7 on a BBS, though.
>>
>> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@...>
>> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 11:24 AM
>> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??
>>
>>
>> >i use an old dell 386 with 4 floppy drives
>> > that way no hard drive running
>> >
>> > there is a 8088 running a 2meter repeater  at the stepsons house
>> > its got a 10meg mfm hd  its been on and never shut off
>> > since 1988
>> > dave
>> > i am afraid to shut it off as it may not boot again
>> >
>> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Thanks!  I like the looks of the BP2M.  When I get more flush, I plan 
>> >> to
>> >> grab me one, and do a little playing.  I especially like the 
>> >> multi-mode
>> >> aspect of it, since I've wanted to do some SSTV.
>> >>
>> >> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>> >> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> From: "wd8cyv" <wd8cyv@>
>> >> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 3:03 PM
>> >> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: fresh new Dallas time chip ??
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > here is a link to what i use
>> >> > dave
>> >> > http://www.tigertronics.com/bp2info.htm
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> i use a packet tone adaptor made for baycom 1.6
>> >> >> i do not use a unit like a kantronics kpc3
>> >> >> the bay com runs it out the serial port
>> >> >> the modem is just a tone decoder
>> >> >> computer does the whole thing
>> >> >> dave
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2278
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:23:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive Answer?
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

All,
Several months ago, Mike Brutman gave me a suggestion to use Disk On Module instead of Compact Flash for a solid state drive for our Grids.
I bought one on Ebay but I have not had the time to try this approach.
I am letting the rest of the group know about this option in an attempt to "get the word out."  Perhaps people, like Phil,  who have the ability to edit the BIOS, could try the Disk On Module approach.


Just to let everyone else know what I've been up, I'm working with my Commodore 128.  Why Commodore 128?  I want to learn machine language.  Many years ago, I bought a book called "128 Machine Language For Beginners."
I have time now, so I thought using my C-128 would be a good platform to jump in to simple machine language concepts and routines.
>From that, I plan to apply the knowledge to the Grid 1520 BIOS.  Hopefully, I hope to figure out the RTC and disk drive interaction.  Maybe figure out how and why "any old" hard drive doesn't seem to work in Grid (even after making changes in the BIOS).
Rather than hold everyone back from a potential solid state drive solution for their Grid (while I'm playing Don Quixote), I thought I should pass on the information.
Here is a Disk On Module on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/128MB-DOM-Disk-Module-128MB-40Pins-IDE-FLASH-NEW-/220560155743?pt=PCC_Drives_Storage_Internal&hash=item335a68e45f

Good luck,
-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2279
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 17:13:55 -0400
From: "Len.C"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive Answer?
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I wish I had known you had a C128, sold mine years ago, filled the back 
seat floor to ceiling and the trunk of a Chrysler K car with all the 
stuff I had.

Kept the books though for some reason, 2 years ago I moved and tossed 
out all the books, musta been 15 or 20 of them all on the 128 and 
programming them.  No one I could think of wanted the things, kinda wish 
I had all my stuff back but just didn't have the room for it.


On 9/24/2011 3:23 PM, Shawnerz wrote:
> All,
> Several months ago, Mike Brutman gave me a suggestion to use Disk On 
> Module instead of Compact Flash for a solid state drive for our Grids.
> I bought one on Ebay but I have not had the time to try this approach.
> I am letting the rest of the group know about this option in an 
> attempt to "get the word out."  Perhaps people, like Phil,  who have 
> the ability to edit the BIOS, could try the Disk On Module approach.
>
>
> Just to let everyone else know what I've been up, I'm working with my 
> Commodore 128.  Why Commodore 128?  I want to learn machine language.  
> Many years ago, I bought a book called "128 Machine Language For 
> Beginners."
> I have time now, so I thought using my C-128 would be a good platform 
> to jump in to simple machine language concepts and routines.
> From that, I plan to apply the knowledge to the Grid 1520 BIOS.  
> Hopefully, I hope to figure out the RTC and disk drive interaction.  
> Maybe figure out how and why "any old" hard drive doesn't seem to work 
> in Grid (even after making changes in the BIOS).
> Rather than hold everyone back from a potential solid state drive 
> solution for their Grid (while I'm playing Don Quixote), I thought I 
> should pass on the information.
> Here is a Disk On Module on Ebay: 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/128MB-DOM-Disk-Module-128MB-40Pins-IDE-FLASH-NEW-/220560155743?pt=PCC_Drives_Storage_Internal&hash=item335a68e45f
>
> Good luck,
> -Shawn
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2280
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 22:10:35 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive Answer?
text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Thanks Len. 
But probably wouldn't have taken them. No offense. It's just that I recently moved and I've got enough junk now.
I figured that this assembly/machine language exercise was an excuse to actually use the -128 for something.
Thanks,
-Shawn
All typos courtesy of Blackberry.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Len.C" <lennard.gc@gmail.com>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 17:13:55 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive Answer?

I wish I had known you had a C128, sold mine years ago, filled the back 
seat floor to ceiling and the trunk of a Chrysler K car with all the 
stuff I had.

Kept the books though for some reason, 2 years ago I moved and tossed 
out all the books, musta been 15 or 20 of them all on the 128 and 
programming them.  No one I could think of wanted the things, kinda wish 
I had all my stuff back but just didn't have the room for it.


On 9/24/2011 3:23 PM, Shawnerz wrote:
> All,
> Several months ago, Mike Brutman gave me a suggestion to use Disk On 
> Module instead of Compact Flash for a solid state drive for our Grids.
> I bought one on Ebay but I have not had the time to try this approach.
> I am letting the rest of the group know about this option in an 
> attempt to "get the word out."  Perhaps people, like Phil,  who have 
> the ability to edit the BIOS, could try the Disk On Module approach.
>
>
> Just to let everyone else know what I've been up, I'm working with my 
> Commodore 128.  Why Commodore 128?  I want to learn machine language.  
> Many years ago, I bought a book called "128 Machine Language For 
> Beginners."
> I have time now, so I thought using my C-128 would be a good platform 
> to jump in to simple machine language concepts and routines.
> From that, I plan to apply the knowledge to the Grid 1520 BIOS.  
> Hopefully, I hope to figure out the RTC and disk drive interaction.  
> Maybe figure out how and why "any old" hard drive doesn't seem to work 
> in Grid (even after making changes in the BIOS).
> Rather than hold everyone back from a potential solid state drive 
> solution for their Grid (while I'm playing Don Quixote), I thought I 
> should pass on the information.
> Here is a Disk On Module on Ebay: 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/128MB-DOM-Disk-Module-128MB-40Pins-IDE-FLASH-NEW-/220560155743?pt=PCC_Drives_Storage_Internal&hash=item335a68e45f
>
> Good luck,
> -Shawn
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2281
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 10:34:53 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive Answer?
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hey, Shawn.  Really ambitious plan, there, but I hope you realize that the instruction set for the 8502 is vastly different from that of the 80x86.  What might be a better option would be to learn assembly language.  You'd still have to deal with different instruction sets, but if you master something like LADS (the label-based assembler that Michael Mansfield, I think it was, came up with back in the '80s), the concepts of assembly language on one machine is more easily translated to another, especially if both assemblers are label based.  I'm not sure if Microsoft's assembler (MASM) is label based or not, but I assume it's better than trying to write code in DEBUG, for instance.  :-)  But, I just wanted to throw that out to you.  I played with LADS in the '80s, and it was pretty neat.  Rather than keeping copious notes on what addresses to jump to, etc., you assign labels to those addresses, so a branch to the print command would be as easy as JMP PRINT instead of JMP FFD2, if I remember the Commie kernel correctly.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: Shawnerz
To: grid laptops
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 3:23 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive Answer?





All,
Several months ago, Mike Brutman gave me a suggestion to use Disk On Module instead of Compact Flash for a solid state drive for our Grids.
I bought one on Ebay but I have not had the time to try this approach.
I am letting the rest of the group know about this option in an attempt to "get the word out."  Perhaps people, like Phil,  who have the ability to edit the BIOS, could try the Disk On Module approach.




Just to let everyone else know what I've been up, I'm working with my Commodore 128.  Why Commodore 128?  I want to learn machine language.  Many years ago, I bought a book called "128 Machine Language For Beginners."
I have time now, so I thought using my C-128 would be a good platform to jump in to simple machine language concepts and routines.
>From that, I plan to apply the knowledge to the Grid 1520 BIOS.  Hopefully, I hope to figure out the RTC and disk drive interaction.  Maybe figure out how and why "any old" hard drive doesn't seem to work in Grid (even after making changes in the BIOS).
Rather than hold everyone back from a potential solid state drive solution for their Grid (while I'm playing Don Quixote), I thought I should pass on the information.
Here is a Disk On Module on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/128MB-DOM-Disk-Module-128MB-40Pins-IDE-FLASH-NEW-/220560155743?pt=PCC_Drives_Storage_Internal&hash=item335a68e45f


Good luck,
-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2282
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 15:10:24 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive Answer?
text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Hey there, Tom.
Yes, I am using LADS. Typed it in all by myself. :(  yeah, I know the 8502 is different, but I am hoping the enough of the commands, syntax, and concepts  are similar enough.
I do have a MASM. The problem is I don't have an instruction book (like I do for the C-128) that will guide you, baby-step by baby-step, through machine language.  All of the 80x86 books I have assume you have a couple CS classes under your belt.
-Shawn
All typos courtesy of Blackberry.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@sbcglobal.net>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 10:34:53 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive Answer?

Hey, Shawn.  Really ambitious plan, there, but I hope you realize that the instruction set for the 8502 is vastly different from that of the 80x86.  What might be a better option would be to learn assembly language.  You'd still have to deal with different instruction sets, but if you master something like LADS (the label-based assembler that Michael Mansfield, I think it was, came up with back in the '80s), the concepts of assembly language on one machine is more easily translated to another, especially if both assemblers are label based.  I'm not sure if Microsoft's assembler (MASM) is label based or not, but I assume it's better than trying to write code in DEBUG, for instance.  :-)  But, I just wanted to throw that out to you.  I played with LADS in the '80s, and it was pretty neat.  Rather than keeping copious notes on what addresses to jump to, etc., you assign labels to those addresses, so a branch to the print command would be as easy as JMP PRINT instead of JMP FFD2, if I remember the Commie kernel correctly.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Shawnerz 
To: grid laptops 
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 3:23 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive Answer?





All,
Several months ago, Mike Brutman gave me a suggestion to use Disk On Module instead of Compact Flash for a solid state drive for our Grids.
I bought one on Ebay but I have not had the time to try this approach.
I am letting the rest of the group know about this option in an attempt to "get the word out."  Perhaps people, like Phil,  who have the ability to edit the BIOS, could try the Disk On Module approach.




Just to let everyone else know what I've been up, I'm working with my Commodore 128.  Why Commodore 128?  I want to learn machine language.  Many years ago, I bought a book called "128 Machine Language For Beginners."
I have time now, so I thought using my C-128 would be a good platform to jump in to simple machine language concepts and routines.
From that, I plan to apply the knowledge to the Grid 1520 BIOS.  Hopefully, I hope to figure out the RTC and disk drive interaction.  Maybe figure out how and why "any old" hard drive doesn't seem to work in Grid (even after making changes in the BIOS).
Rather than hold everyone back from a potential solid state drive solution for their Grid (while I'm playing Don Quixote), I thought I should pass on the information.
Here is a Disk On Module on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/128MB-DOM-Disk-Module-128MB-40Pins-IDE-FLASH-NEW-/220560155743?pt=PCC_Drives_Storage_Internal&hash=item335a68e45f


Good luck,
-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2283
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 00:07:43 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive Answer?
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Shawn,

If I may, I would recommend the following book:

Assembly Language Step-By-Step  by Jeff Duntermann, published by Wiley
Press. You can get it off Amazon.com.

I found this book to be very easy to understand,a nd will give you the
basics and more.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, shawnerz@... wrote:
>
> Hey there, Tom.
> Yes, I am using LADS. Typed it in all by myself. :( yeah, I know the
8502 is different, but I am hoping the enough of the commands, syntax,
and concepts are similar enough.
> I do have a MASM. The problem is I don't have an instruction book
(like I do for the C-128) that will guide you, baby-step by baby-step,
through machine language. All of the 80x86 books I have assume you have
a couple CS classes under your belt.
> -Shawn
> All typos courtesy of Blackberry.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Tom Rutherford" n8euj@...
> Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 10:34:53
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive
Answer?
>
> Hey, Shawn. Really ambitious plan, there, but I hope you realize that
the instruction set for the 8502 is vastly different from that of the
80x86. What might be a better option would be to learn assembly
language. You'd still have to deal with different instruction sets, but
if you master something like LADS (the label-based assembler that
Michael Mansfield, I think it was, came up with back in the '80s), the
concepts of assembly language on one machine is more easily translated
to another, especially if both assemblers are label based. I'm not sure
if Microsoft's assembler (MASM) is label based or not, but I assume it's
better than trying to write code in DEBUG, for instance. :-) But, I just
wanted to throw that out to you. I played with LADS in the '80s, and it
was pretty neat. Rather than keeping copious notes on what addresses to
jump to, etc., you assign labels to those addresses, so a branch to the
print command would be as easy as JMP PRINT instead of JMP FFD2, if I
remember the Commie kernel correctly.
>
> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> "She said it was either her or the ham radio. Over."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Shawnerz
> To: grid laptops
> Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 3:23 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive
Answer?
>
>
>
>
>
> All,
> Several months ago, Mike Brutman gave me a suggestion to use Disk On
Module instead of Compact Flash for a solid state drive for our Grids.
> I bought one on Ebay but I have not had the time to try this approach.
> I am letting the rest of the group know about this option in an
attempt to "get the word out." Perhaps people, like Phil, who have the
ability to edit the BIOS, could try the Disk On Module approach.
>
>
>
>
> Just to let everyone else know what I've been up, I'm working with my
Commodore 128. Why Commodore 128? I want to learn machine language. Many
years ago, I bought a book called "128 Machine Language For Beginners."
> I have time now, so I thought using my C-128 would be a good platform
to jump in to simple machine language concepts and routines.
> From that, I plan to apply the knowledge to the Grid 1520 BIOS.
Hopefully, I hope to figure out the RTC and disk drive interaction.
Maybe figure out how and why "any old" hard drive doesn't seem to work
in Grid (even after making changes in the BIOS).
> Rather than hold everyone back from a potential solid state drive
solution for their Grid (while I'm playing Don Quixote), I thought I
should pass on the information.
> Here is a Disk On Module on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/128MB-DOM-Disk-Module-128MB-40Pins-IDE-FLASH-NEW\
-/220560155743?pt=PCC_Drives_Storage_Internal&hash=item335a68e45f
>
>
> Good luck,
> -Shawn
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2284
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 09:23:06 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive Answer?
text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Gawd, I'm glad you're not having to deal with straight machine code!  Isn't LADS a peach?  After my classes in System 360/370 assembly language, LADS was a snap.  No idea where you can get instructions on MASM.  Hmmm...Just typed in "masm " in the Google search box, and got several suggestions, the first of which was a masm tutorial.  There's even a masm forum, apparently.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: shawnerz@yahoo.com
To: grid laptops
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive Answer?




Hey there, Tom.
Yes, I am using LADS. Typed it in all by myself. :( yeah, I know the 8502 is different, but I am hoping the enough of the commands, syntax, and concepts are similar enough.
I do have a MASM. The problem is I don't have an instruction book (like I do for the C-128) that will guide you, baby-step by baby-step, through machine language. All of the 80x86 books I have assume you have a couple CS classes under your belt.
-Shawn
All typos courtesy of Blackberry.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...t>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 10:34:53 -0400
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive Answer?


Hey, Shawn.  Really ambitious plan, there, but I hope you realize that the instruction set for the 8502 is vastly different from that of the 80x86.  What might be a better option would be to learn assembly language.  You'd still have to deal with different instruction sets, but if you master something like LADS (the label-based assembler that Michael Mansfield, I think it was, came up with back in the '80s), the concepts of assembly language on one machine is more easily translated to another, especially if both assemblers are label based.  I'm not sure if Microsoft's assembler (MASM) is label based or not, but I assume it's better than trying to write code in DEBUG, for instance.  :-)  But, I just wanted to throw that out to you.  I played with LADS in the '80s, and it was pretty neat.  Rather than keeping copious notes on what addresses to jump to, etc., you assign labels to those addresses, so a branch to the print command would be as easy as JMP PRINT instead of JMP FFD2, if I remember the Commie kernel correctly.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: Shawnerz
To: grid laptops
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 3:23 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Disk On Module - Solid State Disk Drive Answer?


All,
Several months ago, Mike Brutman gave me a suggestion to use Disk On Module instead of Compact Flash for a solid state drive for our Grids.
I bought one on Ebay but I have not had the time to try this approach.
I am letting the rest of the group know about this option in an attempt to "get the word out."  Perhaps people, like Phil,  who have the ability to edit the BIOS, could try the Disk On Module approach.




Just to let everyone else know what I've been up, I'm working with my Commodore 128.  Why Commodore 128?  I want to learn machine language.  Many years ago, I bought a book called "128 Machine Language For Beginners."
I have time now, so I thought using my C-128 would be a good platform to jump in to simple machine language concepts and routines.
From that, I plan to apply the knowledge to the Grid 1520 BIOS.  Hopefully, I hope to figure out the RTC and disk drive interaction.  Maybe figure out how and why "any old" hard drive doesn't seem to work in Grid (even after making changes in the BIOS).
Rather than hold everyone back from a potential solid state drive solution for their Grid (while I'm playing Don Quixote), I thought I should pass on the information.
Here is a Disk On Module on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/128MB-DOM-Disk-Module-128MB-40Pins-IDE-FLASH-NEW-/220560155743?pt=PCC_Drives_Storage_Internal&hash=item335a68e45f


Good luck,
-Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2285
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 23:36:08 -0700
From: jim s
Subject: fun posting on Ebay

jump on this listing

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120783783877

only a small problem, "works but is locked".  I wonder if any of the 
postings here might have been the list trying to fix that.

BTW the price is ridiculous which is why I put the posting here.

Jim

Yahoo! Message number: 2286
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 10:24:44 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] fun posting on Ebay

Yeah, I'm on it...(I really need a sarcasm font!)
"only a small problem," you mean other than the price?  And that it's shipping from Bulgaria?
I don't know about everyone else, but I'll pass on this one. :)
-Shawn

All typos courtesy of Blackberry.

-----Original Message-----
From: jim s <jws@jwsss.com>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 23:36:08 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] fun posting on Ebay

jump on this listing

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120783783877

only a small problem, "works but is locked".  I wonder if any of the 
postings here might have been the list trying to fix that.

BTW the price is ridiculous which is why I put the posting here.

Jim


------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2287
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 06:38:01 -0400
From: "Len.C"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] fun posting on Ebay
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

The price seems right.



On 9/30/2011 2:36 AM, jim s wrote:
>
> jump on this listing
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120783783877 
> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120783783877>
>
> only a small problem, "works but is locked". I wonder if any of the
> postings here might have been the list trying to fix that.
>
> BTW the price is ridiculous which is why I put the posting here.
>
> Jim
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2288
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 16:25:31 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: fun posting on Ebay

It IS a Compass and THAT is pretty a neat piece of history right there but still...  The last one I saw listed on Ebay went for under a hundred dollars.   I think that if I found one cheap enough I'd donate it to the Computer History Museum in Mountain View.  Last time I was there they had a couple Grids but no Compass.  (Of course, that was a couple years back when they had Babbage's Difference Engine on display... maybe they've acquired one since...)








--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, jim s <jws@...> wrote:
>
> jump on this listing
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120783783877
>
> only a small problem, "works but is locked".  I wonder if any of the
> postings here might have been the list trying to fix that.
>
> BTW the price is ridiculous which is why I put the posting here.
>
> Jim
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2289
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 21:54:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Jim,
I was going through and deleting old emails.  I came across this email.  I'm not sure if we're saying the same thing, but I'll tell you my story.
 
It's long story, but I had to resurrect my old 386SX laptop for a work project.  I pulled it out from storage and found the 40 MB hard drive hard died.  I looked around at work and found a 6 GB drive.  I told the BIOS is was a type 47.  The drive got formatted for 40 MB.
 
I then installed DOS 6.22 (and later Windows 3.0) and continued with my project.
 
I don't know what's expected or right or wrong.  I just know what worked on my laptop.
-Shawn


________________________________
From: jim s <jws@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest

Shawn,
the way it works is that there is a weird chicken and egg thing going on
till you get out of the original AT drive types, which are less than the
bit field sizes defined in the int 13 disk call (don't recall the
maximums).  The LBA allows the bit fields to be redefined, but keeps the
same size of data value for the cylinder address.

To the chicken and egg issue.  The Bios starts out with a drive type,
and from that the CHS values.  It reads the partition table from
CHS=0:0:0 (it can always do that even with LBA or extended modes).

>From there it takes the LBA values for the drive and tells the drive
via a command what the values are and the drive changes them.  If they
don't match something reasonable, then you get some sort of 17xx error. 
If you do something like use a type 0 (10mb) and have a disk with a
larger Cylinder (C) count, you get by until the OS starts.  Dos pitches
a hissy fit if the Bios C max does not match the Partition table C
count.  I think some versions of SCO and early linux systems didn't
care.  You could boot a larger drive with > 306 (if memory serves)
cylinders but the same 4 heads and sector count, and all would be well. 
But DOS cares.

So you actually have the PC system (as in bios or boot)  telling the
drive the geometry, but going thru the steps above.

Also this might help explain why some install have to have the cylinder
count low, depending on when you read sector 0 of the partition, which
contains the OS boot image.  If  it is < than the max count of the drive
entry in the BIOS it may work, but the OS can read beyond that point. 
So the OS can live beyond the BIOS cylinder count even though the boot
sector is below the line.

None of this counts for as much with all the extensions in modern BIOS
code, but does the older you get.  There are less and less support for
the older features now in new parts that let these tricks work.

Jim

On 3/10/2011 7:41 AM, Shawnerz wrote:
>  From what I can tell, the 386SX BIOS works like this: in it's BIOS, you tell the computer what type of hard drive is connected.


------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2290
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2011 22:25:36 -0700
From: jim s
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

You hit the nail on the head.  You can with most drives tell them what 
you want them to be.  The old type 47 bios settings if implemented 
correctly would let you put in anything you wanted.

There are some newer OS's, not DOS I know of that do the dance we are 
talking about here with the bios settings, but then to support the new 
larger drives have to read the two settings to go on up to the new multi 
terabyte drive geometries.  If you were to load that, you'd be in more 
iffy territory, but I don't think that dos uses anything but INT 13 to 
do its work, so the bios setings you put in win.

I know there are stops in capacity at 31mb, 512mb, 2.2gb, 8gb (don't 
recall where this one is for sure) and then the latest command that 
opens up the capacity to what probably will be unlimited.

I'd love for someone to chime in and pick up the above capacity stops 
and explain them in detail for this discussion.  Most have to do with 
various OS's along the way.

When I worked on the drivers for the Pick OS we were in the 2.2gb days 
by the time we did our final version of the disk drivers, but started 
where you could only rely on supporting 512mb / drive.  For a database 
OS it was a big thing in the day to have a 4.4gb desktop OS, considering 
that IBM mainframes of the day, such as 3380's  were only 2gb.

Thanks
Jim

On 10/2/2011 9:54 PM, Shawnerz wrote:
>
>
> Jim,
> I was going through and deleting old emails.  I came across this 
> email.  I'm not sure if we're saying the same thing, but I'll tell you 
> my story.
> It's long story, but I had to resurrect my old 386SX laptop for a work 
> project.  I pulled it out from storage and found the 40 MB hard drive 
> hard died.  I looked around at work and found a 6 GB drive.  I told 
> the BIOS is was a type 47.  The drive got formatted for 40 MB.
> I then installed DOS 6.22 (and later Windows 3.0) and continued with 
> my project.
> I don't know what's expected or right or wrong.  I just know what 
> worked on my laptop.
> -Shawn
>
> *From:* jim s <jws@...>
> *To:* RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:22 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest
>
> Shawn,
> the way it works is that there is a weird chicken and egg thing going on
> till you get out of the original AT drive types, which are less than the
> bit field sizes defined in the int 13 disk call (don't recall the
> maximums).  The LBA allows the bit fields to be redefined, but keeps the
> same size of data value for the cylinder address.
>
> To the chicken and egg issue.  The Bios starts out with a drive type,
> and from that the CHS values.  It reads the partition table from
> CHS=0:0:0 (it can always do that even with LBA or extended modes).
>
> From there it takes the LBA values for the drive and tells the drive
> via a command what the values are and the drive changes them.  If they
> don't match something reasonable, then you get some sort of 17xx error.
> If you do something like use a type 0 (10mb) and have a disk with a
> larger Cylinder (C) count, you get by until the OS starts.  Dos pitches
> a hissy fit if the Bios C max does not match the Partition table C
> count.  I think some versions of SCO and early linux systems didn't
> care.  You could boot a larger drive with > 306 (if memory serves)
> cylinders but the same 4 heads and sector count, and all would be well.
> But DOS cares.
>
> So you actually have the PC system (as in bios or boot)  telling the
> drive the geometry, but going thru the steps above.
>
> Also this might help explain why some install have to have the cylinder
> count low, depending on when you read sector 0 of the partition, which
> contains the OS boot image.  If  it is < than the max count of the drive
> entry in the BIOS it may work, but the OS can read beyond that point.
> So the OS can live beyond the BIOS cylinder count even though the boot
> sector is below the line.
>
> None of this counts for as much with all the extensions in modern BIOS
> code, but does the older you get.  There are less and less support for
> the older features now in new parts that let these tricks work.
>
> Jim
>
> On 3/10/2011 7:41 AM, Shawnerz wrote:
> >  From what I can tell, the 386SX BIOS works like this: in it's BIOS, 
> you tell the computer what type of hard drive is connected.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> RuGRiD-Laptop-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:RuGRiD-Laptop-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2291
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 12:10:49 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I had something similar happen to me, Shawn, but this was a Pentium-class machine with a 1995 BIOS.  I had been using a 1.08GB hard drive, I believe, and I was running MS-DOS and Windows 3.1, OS/2 Warp 3.0, and RedHat Linux 5.2 Deluxe on it.  The way I did that was to use OS/2's FDISK for partitioning, setting, which allowed another little IBM goodie called Boot Manager to act as a multi-boot system.  I had a primary partition for Boot Manager (the smallest partition possible on that drive; it didn't need to be very large), a primary DOS partition called C:, an HPFS logical drive called D:, and I believe E: and F: logical drives that were also formatted to HPFS.  I went out and bought a 6.4GB hard drive, because the BIOS supported LBA translation.  Well, sort of.  :-)  I wound up having to play games with the drive, because the physical geometry of the drive would only allow a 472-MB primary DOS partition.  I think 1995 was on the cusp for American Megatrends, or at least for AMI BIOS on Biostar boards, because some features of LBA translation were supported, and some weren't.  The neat thing was, though, that even though my primary DOS partition was limted to 472GB, the logical drives, even D:, which was bootable, could be as large as I wanted it to be, because, once OS/2 was booted, the whole drive, from stem to stern, could be seen by OS/2.  DOS couldn't even see those HPFS partitions, because all it could see was FAT12, FAT16, and ISO-9660 filesystems, but OS/2 could see everything.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: Shawnerz
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest





Jim,
I was going through and deleting old emails.  I came across this email.  I'm not sure if we're saying the same thing, but I'll tell you my story.

It's long story, but I had to resurrect my old 386SX laptop for a work project.  I pulled it out from storage and found the 40 MB hard drive hard died.  I looked around at work and found a 6 GB drive.  I told the BIOS is was a type 47.  The drive got formatted for 40 MB.

I then installed DOS 6.22 (and later Windows 3.0) and continued with my project.

I don't know what's expected or right or wrong.  I just know what worked on my laptop.
-Shawn


From: jim s <jws@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest

Shawn,
the way it works is that there is a weird chicken and egg thing going on
till you get out of the original AT drive types, which are less than the
bit field sizes defined in the int 13 disk call (don't recall the
maximums).  The LBA allows the bit fields to be redefined, but keeps the
same size of data value for the cylinder address.

To the chicken and egg issue.  The Bios starts out with a drive type,
and from that the CHS values.  It reads the partition table from
CHS=0:0:0 (it can always do that even with LBA or extended modes).

>From there it takes the LBA values for the drive and tells the drive
via a command what the values are and the drive changes them.  If they
don't match something reasonable, then you get some sort of 17xx error.
If you do something like use a type 0 (10mb) and have a disk with a
larger Cylinder (C) count, you get by until the OS starts.  Dos pitches
a hissy fit if the Bios C max does not match the Partition table C
count.  I think some versions of SCO and early linux systems didn't
care.  You could boot a larger drive with > 306 (if memory serves)
cylinders but the same 4 heads and sector count, and all would be well.
But DOS cares.

So you actually have the PC system (as in bios or boot)  telling the
drive the geometry, but going thru the steps above.

Also this might help explain why some install have to have the cylinder
count low, depending on when you read sector 0 of the partition, which
contains the OS boot image.  If  it is < than the max count of the drive
entry in the BIOS it may work, but the OS can read beyond that point. 
So the OS can live beyond the BIOS cylinder count even though the boot
sector is below the line.

None of this counts for as much with all the extensions in modern BIOS
code, but does the older you get.  There are less and less support for
the older features now in new parts that let these tricks work.

Jim

On 3/10/2011 7:41 AM, Shawnerz wrote:
>  From what I can tell, the 386SX BIOS works like this: in it's BIOS, you tell the computer what type of hard drive is connected.


------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2292
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 20:47:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: severn eyrse
Subject: EPROM programmer
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I just saw this on my local CL. Not into burning my ow EPROMs but maybe some one would be interested.http://boise.craigslist.org/sys/2599496823.html
 
Severn Eyrse

Yahoo! Message number: 2293
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 04:21:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] EPROM programmer
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Thanks for the post.  I hope some one else can use it.  I already have a USB programmer.
-Shawn



________________________________
From: severn eyrse <severn_e2000@...>
To: "RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:47 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] EPROM programmer






I just saw this on my local CL. Not into burning my ow EPROMs but maybe some one would be interested.http://boise.craigslist.org/sys/2599496823.html
 
Severn Eyrse

Yahoo! Message number: 2294
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:47:29 -0000
From: "Nigel"
Subject: GRiD 1520 parts?

I was lucky to win a 1520 off eBay recently, it is in beautiful condition, cleanest GRiD I've ever seen, but it appears to have a power supply fault. After being powered for a few minutes the LCD backlight starts flickering, and then after a few more minutes the whole machine powers down.

Anyone recognise these symptoms? the hard-drive sounds to be running ok, and aside from the usual flat Dallas battery and power supply problems everything else appears ok.

Yahoo! Message number: 2295
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:54:11 -0000
From: "Nigel"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1520 parts?

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Nigel" <nigel.d.williams@...> wrote:
> After being powered for a few minutes the LCD backlight starts
> flickering, and then after a few more minutes the whole machine
> powers down.

I'm guessing it is a power supply fault based on the page 1-33 of the 1500 Hardware Service Student Guide which has a paragraph on the DC/DC converters and that one is used to operate the LCD.

Yahoo! Message number: 2296
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:20:00 -0000
From: "Nigel"
Subject: Re: GRiD 1520 parts?

Some pictures here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/118247290269860741639/GRiD1520

Yahoo! Message number: 2297
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:53:20 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD 1520 parts?

Nigel,
Nice looking 1520. I looked at the pictures.  
I have not had the problem that you are having.
It sounds like a 50/50 shot: it could be the power supply.  Or, it could be that the display is faulty and drawing too current from the supply.
If you like, I can look through my spares and see if I have an extra power supply.
No guarantees that it will work, though.
I couldn't leave comments on the pictures. But, yes the socket is for the 287 Co-processor (not sure what NDP stands for).
Email me off-list if you're interested.
Thanks,
-Shawn
All typos courtesy of Blackberry.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Nigel" <nigel.d.williams@gmail.com>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:54:11 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiD 1520 parts?

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Nigel" <nigel.d.williams@...> wrote:
> After being powered for a few minutes the LCD backlight starts
> flickering, and then after a few more minutes the whole machine 
> powers down.

I'm guessing it is a power supply fault based on the page 1-33 of the 1500 Hardware Service Student Guide which has a paragraph on the DC/DC converters and that one is used to operate the LCD.




------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2298
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:16:46 -0000
From: "Gregory"
Subject: GRiDCase 1520 with busted screen

Hello,

I recently purchased a GRiDCase 1520, however, the plasma screen was/is cracked. I'd like to know if you guys might have any suggestions as to where to get a replacement. I've checked CodeMicro, Pinnacle, and most of the other expensive ones for parts, but so far haven't come up with anything. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Gregory T. Babecki

Yahoo! Message number: 2299
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 03:11:03 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: GRiDCase 1520 with busted screen

Hi, Greg,

I doubt seriously that you will find anyone who any old GRiD parts left anywhere on a commercial basis. I have seen some obscure web sites that carried these parts, but it's been years since I looked them up. If they still exist, they are likely overseas in Europe. Your best bet is to search on EBAY and find someone who is selling a screen, or find an another 1520 (or 1530 for that matter as the screens are exactly the same)which is busted and being sold for parts. You can get 1500 series GRiD's on EBAY sometimes that don't run at all, but it's a good bet the screens will still be good. If you happen to find a plasma screen instead of an LCD screen, you might consider that, but remember that the power supplies must go with the screens. So if you put a different type of screen on the 1520, you must also replace the power supply with the one that goes with that particular screen. Hope that helps.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory" <GBabecki@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I recently purchased a GRiDCase 1520, however, the plasma screen was/is cracked. I'd like to know if you guys might have any suggestions as to where to get a replacement. I've checked CodeMicro, Pinnacle, and most of the other expensive ones for parts, but so far haven't come up with anything. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Gregory T. Babecki
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2300
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:19:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDCase 1520 with busted screen
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I meant to reply to Greg's email.  I was out-of-town when I read it and figured I'd respond to it later.  I forgot.
OK, let's do this:
 
Nigel:  Regardless if it works for you or not, keep the power supply.  I'll "part out" the 1520.
 
Greg: I have a plasma screen you can have.  A few bucks for postage via Paypal to my address (shawnerz at yahoo) and I'll send it to you.  Oh, and send me your address.
 
-Shawn


________________________________
 From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:11 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDCase 1520 with busted screen

Hi, Greg,

I doubt seriously that you will find anyone who any old GRiD parts left anywhere on a commercial basis. I have seen some obscure web sites that carried these parts, but it's been years since I looked them up. If they still exist, they are likely overseas in Europe. Your best bet is to search on EBAY and find someone who is selling a screen, or find an another 1520 (or 1530 for that matter as the screens are exactly the same)which is busted and being sold for parts. You can get 1500 series GRiD's on EBAY sometimes that don't run at all, but it's a good bet the screens will still be good. If you happen to find a plasma screen instead of an LCD screen, you might consider that, but remember that the power supplies must go with the screens. So if you put a different type of screen on the 1520, you must also replace the power supply with the one that goes with that particular screen. Hope that helps.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory" <GBabecki@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I recently purchased a GRiDCase 1520, however, the plasma screen was/is cracked. I'd like to know if you guys might have any suggestions as to where to get a replacement. I've checked CodeMicro, Pinnacle, and most of the other expensive ones for parts, but so far haven't come up with anything. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Gregory T. Babecki
>




------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2301
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:23:11 -0000
From: "Gregory"
Subject: Re: GRiDCase 1520 with busted screen

Hello,

First off, thanks for all the timely responses. I was offered a gridcase 1520 with working plasma screen (rtc issues, perhaps bad hdd) before your offer, that I figured I'd go with. I figured I would cobble the two together to get a fully functional one (I know mine works, aside from the screen, thanks to an old cga monitor). If you are, however, desperate to rid yourself of parts from the parts unit, I'd be willing to make two fully functional units, or if you need any parts for that matter, the worse of the two I have/(will have) will become a donor (or desktop).

Thanks for the advice, Jeriddian. Last time I read the service manual, I was more interested in learning about the peripheral interface bus, and missed that.

Thanks,
Gregory Babecki

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> I meant to reply to Greg's email.  I was out-of-town when I read it and figured I'd respond to it later.  I forgot.
> OK, let's do this:
>  
> Nigel:  Regardless if it works for you or not, keep the power supply.  I'll "part out" the 1520.
>  
> Greg: I have a plasma screen you can have.  A few bucks for postage via Paypal to my address (shawnerz at yahoo) and I'll send it to you.  Oh, and send me your address.
>  
> -Shawn
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:11 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: GRiDCase 1520 with busted screen
>
> Hi, Greg,
>
> I doubt seriously that you will find anyone who any old GRiD parts left anywhere on a commercial basis. I have seen some obscure web sites that carried these parts, but it's been years since I looked them up. If they still exist, they are likely overseas in Europe. Your best bet is to search on EBAY and find someone who is selling a screen, or find an another 1520 (or 1530 for that matter as the screens are exactly the same)which is busted and being sold for parts. You can get 1500 series GRiD's on EBAY sometimes that don't run at all, but it's a good bet the screens will still be good. If you happen to find a plasma screen instead of an LCD screen, you might consider that, but remember that the power supplies must go with the screens. So if you put a different type of screen on the 1520, you must also replace the power supply with the one that goes with that particular screen. Hope that helps.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory" <GBabecki@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I recently purchased a GRiDCase 1520, however, the plasma screen was/is cracked. I'd like to know if you guys might have any suggestions as to where to get a replacement. I've checked CodeMicro, Pinnacle, and most of the other expensive ones for parts, but so far haven't come up with anything. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Gregory T. Babecki
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2302
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 13:31:28 -0000
From: "phantombrainm"
Subject: bought Gridcase 1530 on ebay, how to open, PSU not original one?

Hi all,

thank you for accepting my membership here!

I bought an Gridcase 1530 on ebay and it looks like brand new.

But I think its not the original PSU since its from "Veridata" and has an output of 18V --- ... , 2.2A

On the Grid itself its saying input Power 16VDC.

Seller has pictures on the auction and is saying its working but i havent turned it on yet.

I dont like the idea of overvolting. Maybe I should look into the cellar if i find another power supply with for e.x. 14 volts and its running smooth okay but overvolting is not a good idea.


Also i see the configuration 02 error on the pictures an some disk boot failure errors.
Thats the cmos for sure. Im wondering if it has the Dallas ship or a battery but need to know how to open it.
Someone here has a 47MB PDF for that i read some days ago?

If you provide me with that file or other stuff i might need for the beginning it would be very appreciated: grid AT women-at-work DOT org

My goal of my new toy at the end is to get the most out of it.
Biggest HDD, maximum RAM, coprocessor, connecting it to the Internet and so on.

Lets see whats possible :)

regards from germany
Manuel

Yahoo! Message number: 2304
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 14:33:36 -0000
From: "phantombrainm"
Subject: Re: bought Gridcase 1530 on ebay, how to open, PSU not original one?

Ok, ive taken it partly apart with the 1520 manual it seems the same so far.

I found the Dallas DS1287 Chip :(
I would have like a battery instead :D

Can I order this one as a replacement?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/DS12887A-RTC-Realtime-Clock-Multiplex-Bus-UL-DIP24-/310256627810?pt=Bauteile&hash=item483cbc7062

What about the Power Supply is the 18V good to use?
Does anyone knows the polarity? Its not visible on the PSU I have and its even not visible on the GRID.

kind regards
Manuel



--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "phantombrainm" <Phantombrain@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> thank you for accepting my membership here!
>
> I bought an Gridcase 1530 on ebay and it looks like brand new.
>
> But I think its not the original PSU since its from "Veridata" and has an output of 18V --- ... , 2.2A
>
> On the Grid itself its saying input Power 16VDC.
>
> Seller has pictures on the auction and is saying its working but i havent turned it on yet.
>
> I dont like the idea of overvolting. Maybe I should look into the cellar if i find another power supply with for e.x. 14 volts and its running smooth okay but overvolting is not a good idea.
>
>
> Also i see the configuration 02 error on the pictures an some disk boot failure errors.
> Thats the cmos for sure. Im wondering if it has the Dallas ship or a battery but need to know how to open it.
> Someone here has a 47MB PDF for that i read some days ago?
>
> If you provide me with that file or other stuff i might need for the beginning it would be very appreciated: grid AT women-at-work DOT org
>
> My goal of my new toy at the end is to get the most out of it.
> Biggest HDD, maximum RAM, coprocessor, connecting it to the Internet and so on.
>
> Lets see whats possible :)
>
> regards from germany
> Manuel
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2305
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 07:30:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: bought Gridcase 1530 on ebay, how to open, PSU not original one?
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Hello Manuel.
I read over you emails and I'll try to answer your questions.
 
>thank you for accepting my membership here! 
You are welcome.  We are always looking for more members.  Maybe we will get someone to help us better understand the BIOS code in the EPROMs.
 
>But I think its not the original PSU since its from "Veridata" and has an output of 18V --- ... , 2.2A
It is not the original poer supply, but it should be OK.  You are probably OK up to 20 volts.  I know I have run my 1520 at 12 volts, so the power supply will accept a wide range of voltages.  Just to let you know, that at 12 volts, the computer will not boot.  If the computer is booted at 14 volts and the voltage goes down to 12, the Grid will still operate.
 
>Biggest HDD, maximum RAM, coprocessor, connecting it to the Internet and so on.
The 1530 BIOS will allow the Grid to boot from only 6 different Conner hard drives.  I think the largest is 100 MB.  The hard drives are out there, but they are hard to find.
I don't have a 1530, but I have several 1520's.  I think the 1530 uses the same RAM.  If so, the most RAM is 8 MB.  The RAM is very hard to find.  It is SIPP.  It looks like SIMM memory, but it has pins on the bottom.  I know people have tried to solder pins to a SIMM RAM.  The problem I had is the SIMM is too large and the top cover will not fit.
Connecting to the Internet: that's going to be difficult.  Not impossible, but difficult.  I'm not 100% sure, but I think microprocessor is a 386SX.  THe laptop was designed and built in the early 1990's.  So, it will be difficult.
 
>Can I order this one as a replacement?
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/DS12887A-RTC-Realtime-Clock-Multiplex-Bus-UL-DIP24-/310256627810?pt=Bauteile&hash=item483cbc7062
I might be wrong, but I you cannot.  We had this discussion in the Grid group before, and I think the answer is "no."  I do not remember the reason.  I think there are more pins in 12887A than on the 1287.
 
>What about the Power Supply is the 18V good to use?
>Does anyone knows the polarity? Its not visible on the PSU I have and its even not visible on the GRID.

Any power supply that can supply 16V DC at 2 to 2.5 amps will work.  I do not know what is the power connector on the 1530.  If it is the round "barrel" type connector, the polarity is center positive.  In other words, the center pin on the barrel connector is positive, and the outer part is negative.
If it has the 3 pin connector like the 1550SX, I will have to look at my notes later today when I get home from work.
 
The 18V power supply should be OK as long as the polarity is correct.
 
I hope this helps,
-Shawn

 

From: phantombrainm <Phantombrain@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 9:33 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: bought Gridcase 1530 on ebay, how to open, PSU not original one?

Ok, ive taken it partly apart with the 1520 manual it seems the same so far.

I found the Dallas DS1287 Chip :(
I would have like a battery instead :D

Can I order this one as a replacement?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/DS12887A-RTC-Realtime-Clock-Multiplex-Bus-UL-DIP24-/310256627810?pt=Bauteile&hash=item483cbc7062

What about the Power Supply is the 18V good to use?
Does anyone knows the polarity? Its not visible on the PSU I have and its even not visible on the GRID.

kind regards
Manuel



--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "phantombrainm" <Phantombrain@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> thank you for accepting my membership here!
>
> I bought an Gridcase 1530 on ebay and it looks like brand new.
>
> But I think its not the original PSU since its from "Veridata" and has an output of 18V --- ... , 2.2A
>
> On the Grid itself its saying input Power 16VDC.
>
> Seller has pictures on the auction and is saying its working but i havent turned it on yet.
>
> I dont like the idea of overvolting. Maybe I should look into the cellar if i find another power supply with for e.x. 14 volts and its running smooth okay but overvolting is not a good idea.
>
>
> Also i see the configuration 02 error on the pictures an some disk boot failure errors.
> Thats the cmos for sure. Im wondering if it has the Dallas ship or a battery but need to know how to open it.
> Someone here has a 47MB PDF for that i read some days ago?
>
> If you provide me with that file or other stuff i might need for the beginning it would be very appreciated: grid AT women-at-work DOT org
> 
> My goal of my new toy at the end is to get the most out of it.
> Biggest HDD, maximum RAM, coprocessor, connecting it to the Internet and so on.
> 
> Lets see whats possible :)
>
> regards from germany
> Manuel
>




------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2306
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 16:56:16 +0100
From: Manuel
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: bought Gridcase 1530 on ebay, how to open, PSU not original one?
text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Hi Shawn,

thanks for the fast reply and all those informations! :)

I booted it up. It has 640K + 14xxKbyte EMS equals 2M in total. Good to know that I can add it up to 8M. But thats one of the last steps :)

The Harddisk spins up... then turns of for 5 seconds... and on... and of... is it normal due to the empty DALLAS chip or is the HDD defective?

If I CTRL-ALT+DEL and press F1 the floppy wants to boot. HDD is not spinning up anymore and silent.
Right now I dont have a floppydisk here but im going to try that next week.

Internet:
I thought I can add a ISA Card but the 1530 has no expansion.
So im going to put a parallel to ethernet Adapter at the port parallel port.
Then its possible to connect to the internet. There are some DOS Browsers, IRC Clients, FTP Server/Clients and so on.
Im happy with text only mode, browsing with just text and no advertising... Its fun! :)

There is an 386DX40 CPU in it. I dont know if its the original one?!

Does anyone else know if the DS12887A will work?
Maybe otherwise I'm trying to open the Dallas chip to mod it with an external battery. It would be the better choice for the future so i dont need to replace it again.

regards
Manuel

P.S.: The Mame Developers (the ones who make these old emulations) and dumping al those old roms and mainboards are gurus at architectures, bioses, decrypting etc.
Maybe one can ask them to look at those biosfiles youre talking about?



Am 02.12.2011 um 16:30 schrieb Shawnerz:

>
> Hello Manuel.
> I read over you emails and I'll try to answer your questions.
>
> >thank you for accepting my membership here!
> You are welcome.  We are always looking for more members.  Maybe we will get someone to help us better understand the BIOS code in the EPROMs.
>
> >But I think its not the original PSU since its from "Veridata" and has an output of 18V --- ... , 2.2A
> It is not the original poer supply, but it should be OK.  You are probably OK up to 20 volts.  I know I have run my 1520 at 12 volts, so the power supply will accept a wide range of voltages.  Just to let you know, that at 12 volts, the computer will not boot.  If the computer is booted at 14 volts and the voltage goes down to 12, the Grid will still operate.
>
> >Biggest HDD, maximum RAM, coprocessor, connecting it to the Internet and so on.
> The 1530 BIOS will allow the Grid to boot from only 6 different Conner hard drives.  I think the largest is 100 MB.  The hard drives are out there, but they are hard to find.
> I don't have a 1530, but I have several 1520's.  I think the 1530 uses the same RAM.  If so, the most RAM is 8 MB.  The RAM is very hard to find.  It is SIPP.  It looks like SIMM memory, but it has pins on the bottom.  I know people have tried to solder pins to a SIMM RAM.  The problem I had is the SIMM is too large and the top cover will not fit.
> Connecting to the Internet: that's going to be difficult.  Not impossible, but difficult.  I'm not 100% sure, but I think microprocessor is a 386SX.  THe laptop was designed and built in the early 1990's.  So, it will be difficult.
>
> >Can I order this one as a replacement?
> > http://www.ebay.de/itm/DS12887A-RTC-Realtime-Clock-Multiplex-Bus-UL-DIP24-/310256627810?pt=Bauteile&hash=item483cbc7062
> I might be wrong, but I you cannot.  We had this discussion in the Grid group before, and I think the answer is "no."  I do not remember the reason.  I think there are more pins in 12887A than on the 1287.
>
> >What about the Power Supply is the 18V good to use?
> >Does anyone knows the polarity? Its not visible on the PSU I have and its even not visible on the GRID.
>
> Any power supply that can supply 16V DC at 2 to 2.5 amps will work.  I do not know what is the power connector on the 1530.  If it is the round "barrel" type connector, the polarity is center positive.  In other words, the center pin on the barrel connector is positive, and the outer part is negative.
> If it has the 3 pin connector like the 1550SX, I will have to look at my notes later today when I get home from work.
>
> The 18V power supply should be OK as long as the polarity is correct.
>
> I hope this helps,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> From: phantombrainm <Phantombrain@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 9:33 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: bought Gridcase 1530 on ebay, how to open, PSU not original one?
>
> Ok, ive taken it partly apart with the 1520 manual it seems the same so far.
>
> I found the Dallas DS1287 Chip :(
> I would have like a battery instead :D
>
> Can I order this one as a replacement?
>
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/DS12887A-RTC-Realtime-Clock-Multiplex-Bus-UL-DIP24-/310256627810?pt=Bauteile&hash=item483cbc7062
>
> What about the Power Supply is the 18V good to use?
> Does anyone knows the polarity? Its not visible on the PSU I have and its even not visible on the GRID.
>
> kind regards
> Manuel
>
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "phantombrainm" <Phantombrain@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > thank you for accepting my membership here!
> >
> > I bought an Gridcase 1530 on ebay and it looks like brand new.
> >
> > But I think its not the original PSU since its from "Veridata" and has an output of 18V --- ... , 2.2A
> >
> > On the Grid itself its saying input Power 16VDC.
> >
> > Seller has pictures on the auction and is saying its working but i havent turned it on yet.
> >
> > I dont like the idea of overvolting. Maybe I should look into the cellar if i find another power supply with for e.x. 14 volts and its running smooth okay but overvolting is not a good idea.
> > 
> >
> > Also i see the configuration 02 error on the pictures an some disk boot failure errors.
> > Thats the cmos for sure. Im wondering if it has the Dallas ship or a battery but need to know how to open it.
> > Someone here has a 47MB PDF for that i read some days ago?
> >
> > If you provide me with that file or other stuff i might need for the beginning it would be very appreciated: grid AT women-at-work DOT org
> >
> > My goal of my new toy at the end is to get the most out of it.
> > Biggest HDD, maximum RAM, coprocessor, connecting it to the Internet and so on.
> >
> > Lets see whats possible :)
> >
> > regards from germany
> > Manuel
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2307
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 19:30:28 +0100
From: Manuel
Subject: Gridcase 1530 - strange Mainboard modifications...

Hi all,

ive continued dissasembling my gridcase and found some modifications on the mainboard.

Also there is a AMD Am386 DX/DXL-40 installed. This is not original, is it?

What about the soldered cables between the chips inside? Original or not?
What are they good for if not? Strange.

Its booting to config 02 error and disk boot error but HDD spins up after 5 seconds down.. up again ... down.. is this behavior normal?
Dallas cmos battery empty so far. Is it due to that?

Would you say i should change the Dallas chip and look further or is this all garbage?

Pictures: http://imageshack.us/g/708/dscf1463hr.jpg/

regards
Manuel

Yahoo! Message number: 2308
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 18:37:56 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: bought Gridcase 1530 on ebay, how to open, PSU not original one?
text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

I'll have to get back to you later in the day (US time).
-Shawn
All typos courtesy of Blackberry.

-----Original Message-----
From: Manuel <Phantombrain@gmx.de>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 16:56:16 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: bought Gridcase 1530 on ebay, how to open, PSU not original one?

Hi Shawn,

thanks for the fast reply and all those informations! :)

I booted it up. It has 640K + 14xxKbyte EMS equals 2M in total. Good to know that I can add it up to 8M. But thats one of the last steps :)

The Harddisk spins up... then turns of for 5 seconds... and on... and of... is it normal due to the empty DALLAS chip or is the HDD defective?

If I CTRL-ALT+DEL and press F1 the floppy wants to boot. HDD is not spinning up anymore and silent. 
Right now I dont have a floppydisk here but im going to try that next week.

Internet:
I thought I can add a ISA Card but the 1530 has no expansion.
So im going to put a parallel to ethernet Adapter at the port parallel port.
Then its possible to connect to the internet. There are some DOS Browsers, IRC Clients, FTP Server/Clients and so on. 
Im happy with text only mode, browsing with just text and no advertising... Its fun! :)

There is an 386DX40 CPU in it. I dont know if its the original one?!

Does anyone else know if the DS12887A will work?
Maybe otherwise I'm trying to open the Dallas chip to mod it with an external battery. It would be the better choice for the future so i dont need to replace it again.

regards
Manuel

P.S.: The Mame Developers (the ones who make these old emulations) and dumping al those old roms and mainboards are gurus at architectures, bioses, decrypting etc. 
Maybe one can ask them to look at those biosfiles youre talking about?



Am 02.12.2011 um 16:30 schrieb Shawnerz:

> 
> Hello Manuel.
> I read over you emails and I'll try to answer your questions.
>  
> >thank you for accepting my membership here! 
> You are welcome.  We are always looking for more members.  Maybe we will get someone to help us better understand the BIOS code in the EPROMs.
>  
> >But I think its not the original PSU since its from "Veridata" and has an output of 18V --- ... , 2.2A
> It is not the original poer supply, but it should be OK.  You are probably OK up to 20 volts.  I know I have run my 1520 at 12 volts, so the power supply will accept a wide range of voltages.  Just to let you know, that at 12 volts, the computer will not boot.  If the computer is booted at 14 volts and the voltage goes down to 12, the Grid will still operate.
>  
> >Biggest HDD, maximum RAM, coprocessor, connecting it to the Internet and so on.
> The 1530 BIOS will allow the Grid to boot from only 6 different Conner hard drives.  I think the largest is 100 MB.  The hard drives are out there, but they are hard to find.
> I don't have a 1530, but I have several 1520's.  I think the 1530 uses the same RAM.  If so, the most RAM is 8 MB.  The RAM is very hard to find.  It is SIPP.  It looks like SIMM memory, but it has pins on the bottom.  I know people have tried to solder pins to a SIMM RAM.  The problem I had is the SIMM is too large and the top cover will not fit.
> Connecting to the Internet: that's going to be difficult.  Not impossible, but difficult.  I'm not 100% sure, but I think microprocessor is a 386SX.  THe laptop was designed and built in the early 1990's.  So, it will be difficult.
>  
> >Can I order this one as a replacement?
> > http://www.ebay.de/itm/DS12887A-RTC-Realtime-Clock-Multiplex-Bus-UL-DIP24-/310256627810?pt=Bauteile&hash=item483cbc7062
> I might be wrong, but I you cannot.  We had this discussion in the Grid group before, and I think the answer is "no."  I do not remember the reason.  I think there are more pins in 12887A than on the 1287.
>  
> >What about the Power Supply is the 18V good to use?
> >Does anyone knows the polarity? Its not visible on the PSU I have and its even not visible on the GRID.
> 
> Any power supply that can supply 16V DC at 2 to 2.5 amps will work.  I do not know what is the power connector on the 1530.  If it is the round "barrel" type connector, the polarity is center positive.  In other words, the center pin on the barrel connector is positive, and the outer part is negative.
> If it has the 3 pin connector like the 1550SX, I will have to look at my notes later today when I get home from work.
>  
> The 18V power supply should be OK as long as the polarity is correct.
>  
> I hope this helps,
> -Shawn
> 
>  
> 
> From: phantombrainm <Phantombrain@gmx.de>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 9:33 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: bought Gridcase 1530 on ebay, how to open, PSU not original one?
> 
> Ok, ive taken it partly apart with the 1520 manual it seems the same so far.
> 
> I found the Dallas DS1287 Chip :( 
> I would have like a battery instead :D
> 
> Can I order this one as a replacement?
> 
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/DS12887A-RTC-Realtime-Clock-Multiplex-Bus-UL-DIP24-/310256627810?pt=Bauteile&hash=item483cbc7062
> 
> What about the Power Supply is the 18V good to use?
> Does anyone knows the polarity? Its not visible on the PSU I have and its even not visible on the GRID.
> 
> kind regards
> Manuel
> 
> 
> 
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "phantombrainm" <Phantombrain@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > thank you for accepting my membership here!
> > 
> > I bought an Gridcase 1530 on ebay and it looks like brand new.
> > 
> > But I think its not the original PSU since its from "Veridata" and has an output of 18V --- ... , 2.2A
> > 
> > On the Grid itself its saying input Power 16VDC.
> > 
> > Seller has pictures on the auction and is saying its working but i havent turned it on yet.
> > 
> > I dont like the idea of overvolting. Maybe I should look into the cellar if i find another power supply with for e.x. 14 volts and its running smooth okay but overvolting is not a good idea.
> > 
> > 
> > Also i see the configuration 02 error on the pictures an some disk boot failure errors.
> > Thats the cmos for sure. Im wondering if it has the Dallas ship or a battery but need to know how to open it.
> > Someone here has a 47MB PDF for that i read some days ago?
> > 
> > If you provide me with that file or other stuff i might need for the beginning it would be very appreciated: grid AT women-at-work DOT org
> > 
> > My goal of my new toy at the end is to get the most out of it.
> > Biggest HDD, maximum RAM, coprocessor, connecting it to the Internet and so on.
> > 
> > Lets see whats possible :)
> > 
> > regards from germany
> > Manuel
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2309
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 18:30:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Gridcase 1530 - strange Mainboard modifications...
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Manuel,
I was at my job and I did not have time to answer all of your questions.
 
Thank you for the pictures.  The pictures helped to explain your questions.
 
The AMD AM386 was pin for pin combatible with the Intel 80386.  It was also cheaper.  So, the AMD 386 is probably original.
 
The soldered wires are normal.  It is common for an engineer to make a mistake when he or she lays out a PCB board.  It is costly to "re-spin" a PC board for a minor mistake.  So, a company will make a modification to the PC board instead of making a new PC board.  The soldered wires look like they were done at the factory.
 
 
>Would you say i should change the Dallas chip and look further or is this all garbage?
This is a decision you're going to have to make.  It's a 40 MHz, 386.  Is it worth it to you to keep it going?  You can change the Dallas chip.  Or you can modify it to add a battery.  It's up to you.
 
Oh, I almost forgot: the hard drive.  Something is wrong with the hard drive.  I do not know what it is.  You said it starts to spin, then stops, then starts to spin, and stops.  A guess is the platter is not rotating at the correct speed.  So, the controller resets the drive, and tries again.  It does not reach the correct speed and the controller resets the drive and tries again.  If you remove the hard drive, you will probably see a little bit of oil at the bottom.  This is oil for the bearings in the hard drive.  If the oil is leaked out, then there is probably more friction and the platter cannot rotate at the proper speed.  This is only my guess.  I might be wrong.
 
Good luck and I hope you get it working.   

-Shawn 

________________________________
 From: Manuel <Phantombrain@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 1:30 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Gridcase 1530 - strange Mainboard modifications...

Hi all,

ive continued dissasembling my gridcase and found some modifications on the mainboard.

Also there is a AMD Am386 DX/DXL-40 installed. This is not original, is it?

What about the soldered cables between the chips inside? Original or not?
What are they good for if not? Strange.

Its booting to config 02 error and disk boot error but HDD spins up after 5 seconds down.. up again ... down.. is this behavior normal?
Dallas cmos battery empty so far. Is it due to that?

Would you say i should change the Dallas chip and look further or is this all garbage?

Pictures: http://imageshack.us/g/708/dscf1463hr.jpg/

regards
Manuel






------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2310
Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2011 05:32:37 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Gridcase 1530 - strange Mainboard modifications...

Hi, Manuel,

Shawn is our 1520 Guru. I myself tend to stay with the 1530's and I will try and answer your questions as best I can.

The standard power supply for the 1530 (and all 1500's for that matter), has a voltage of 16.25 volts at 2.7 amps (60 watts). There are some power supplies out there that are 80 watts (3.7 amps). Shawn is right in that the GRiD will take varying power voltages and can run anywhere from roughly 12 to 20 volts. It was built that tough to be able to adapt to that. But I wouldn't go over 20 volts.

You are correct in that the configuration error means the CMOS battery is dead. As I read in your later post, your motherboard has a Dallas 1287 RTC chip. Of course, that is where the CMOS battery is located, and it will have to be replaced. You have two options.

     1) Replace the Dallas 1287 RTC. This will require some good soldering equipment and skills. I have done it myself on several motherboards. Now if you had a 1520, there might be some issues in the BIOS of the computer accepting the new chip. It would be a different chip and the computer would recognize it as such and present problems booting up. However, you have a 1530, and it is NOT a problem wiht this computer. Dallas Semiconductor no longer makes the 1287 chip. It makes the 12887A chip which it touts as a replacements. DO NOT USE THIS CHIP. The 12887A chip has 64 bits of CMOS memory. The old 1287 (and 1287A) only have 32 bits of CMOS memory. The GRiD is too old to recognize the 64 bits of memory in the replacement chip and will not be able to address the memory correctly from its BIOS, therefore it will not work. You MUST replace the 1287 with another 1287 or preferably a 1287A. You can find these chips out on the web. They are still available from third party dealers, but it does take some googling to find them. Once you get the chip, it is just a matter of dissassembling the computer down to the motherboard, desoldering the old chip out, and soldering the new chip in. But it does take some skill and good equipment to do this. I have a tutorial on how to do this, but the file is too big and I have not been able to load it onto Shawn's server directly yet.

     2) You can modify the old 1287 itself by putting a new battery in it, so to speak. The best way to do this is to again disassemble the computer down to the motherboard and desolder the 1287 chip off of it. Then you have to use a dremel tool to get down to the old battery inside the epoxy case and detach the old battery leads. Then you solder wires to the detached connectors (pins 16 and 20) and connect a coin battery holder to the wires and slip a new battery into place. Thne you can resolder the 1287 back into place on the motherboard. You have to be VERY careful to preserve all the pins. Break one, and it's ruined. You'll have to get a new chip. There are files on our forum and on the web that can describe in detail how to do all this.

You say you want to maximize your 1530. Well, that depends on how far you want to go. The maximum RAM for a 1520 is 8 Mb (recommende is only 4 MB according to GRiD). However, technically, the maximum RAM for the 1530 is 16 Mb. GRiD did not recommend this, however, and stated the maximum RAM is 8 MB. Now Shawn is also correct in that the the RAM is extremely difficult to find. It has to be SIPP, not SIMM. SIPP was not on the market very long, as SIMM replaced it quickly. You can find a fairly good amount of 256K SIPP. But 1 MB SIPP's are as rare as chicken's teeth. Good luck with that. Shawn is also correct in that the maximum size hard drive is 100 MB (Conner 34104). The Conner hard drives are extremely difficult to find also, though not impossible. However, it also depends on how far you want to go. There are some later Conner HDD's with up to 512 Mb that both Shawn and I have managed to adapt to a couple of our 1520's and 1530's. But it requires a change in the BIOS and burning new BIOS chips on EPROMS's. This again requires some specialized equipment to do, an EPROM burner and a HEX file editor to make the necessary changes in the BIOS. However, those files are also on our forum, and Shawn has detailed a very nice explanation of how to do that, if you're willing to go that far.

The coprocessor is, of course, a 30387 chip, and it should be at least 12.5 MHz, which is the speed of the 1530. You could run slower, but that defeats the purpose, doesn't it? As to connecting to the internet, all you have is the 300 BAUD modem that it comes with through the serial port. You would have to connect another device to get any kind of a decent speed, however, the problem comes in that the OS (DOS 3.21 through DOS 6.22) cannot handle large addressing concerns. So trying to connect a USB, or CDROM, or a HDD bigger than about 532 MB (or thereabouts) would only confuse it. There are some Adaptec portable SCSI connectors that will integrate into the parallel port and connect some of these devices. I've done it with my 1530 to connnect to a CDROM. It provides a connection protocol that allows you to address larger memory sizes, and relay that back to the primitive DOS abilities of the computer. You could use this to connect to a device that will allow you quicker access to the internet.

I have seen your pictures. As to the AMD 386 DX chip, it is a suitable replacement for the standard 386SX chip of the 1530. However, the standard 386 chip only runs at 25 MHz, so you aren't using the AMD chip at its full speed. As to the wires, Depending upon the motherboard revision, you may find some wires running around on the motherboard that are soldered into place on certain pins of certain chips. These are usually very small wires that are neatly placed onto the motherboard. This are not third party revisions. This was done by the GRiD factory itself as part of their several revisions.

I must say that the revision that motherboard has is one I have never seen before. I have never seen the CPU all the way to the front and sideways, nor have I seen the 1287 chip sideways either. Very interesting. I wonder if this was a British version or something like that.

As to the HDD not being recognized, yes, that is due to the configuration error 02. The CMOS memory contains the parameters of the hard drive in the computer. If the battery is dead, the memory is unpowered, and the computer cannot read those parameters into ROM when it boots up. It has to be able to read them into ROM in order to recognize the HDD. If it can't recognize the HDD, the computer, of course, will act like it's not even there. You have to replace the 1287 or its battery to get the computer to recognize the HDD. However, be aware that you HDD may also be bad. The Conners were notorious for going bad from spindle problems and sticky heads.


I hope that helps you, Manuel.

Good luck with your GRiD!

Phil

Yahoo! Message number: 2311
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 10:20:40 +0100
From: Manuel
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Gridcase 1530 - strange Mainboard modifications...
text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Hi Shawn,
Hi Phil,

thank you both for your detailed (!) answers.

So Im going to repair the 1287 first and see if I can manage it.

Does anyone know if I can connect the old Connor HDD (its 40MB) to a modern PC to see if it spins up and can access its content (if there is any)? Is it pin compatible?

Shawn you're right, its complety oily at the backside. Now I know why you want them to boot up by flash.

At the moment I dont want to buy an eeprom burner. If its time maybe someone can burn me my bios and I send you the chips?
There will be a day when no Conners are available anymore and we need a solution for that.

Phil if you need any more informations regarding where it comes from just let me know (serialnumber or anything). Its from Grid, CA the label says.

regards,
Manuel







Am 03.12.2011 um 06:32 schrieb jeriddian:

> Hi, Manuel,
>
> Shawn is our 1520 Guru. I myself tend to stay with the 1530's and I will try and answer your questions as best I can.
>
> The standard power supply for the 1530 (and all 1500's for that matter), has a voltage of 16.25 volts at 2.7 amps (60 watts). There are some power supplies out there that are 80 watts (3.7 amps). Shawn is right in that the GRiD will take varying power voltages and can run anywhere from roughly 12 to 20 volts. It was built that tough to be able to adapt to that. But I wouldn't go over 20 volts.
>
> You are correct in that the configuration error means the CMOS battery is dead. As I read in your later post, your motherboard has a Dallas 1287 RTC chip. Of course, that is where the CMOS battery is located, and it will have to be replaced. You have two options.
>
> 1) Replace the Dallas 1287 RTC. This will require some good soldering equipment and skills. I have done it myself on several motherboards. Now if you had a 1520, there might be some issues in the BIOS of the computer accepting the new chip. It would be a different chip and the computer would recognize it as such and present problems booting up. However, you have a 1530, and it is NOT a problem wiht this computer. Dallas Semiconductor no longer makes the 1287 chip. It makes the 12887A chip which it touts as a replacements. DO NOT USE THIS CHIP. The 12887A chip has 64 bits of CMOS memory. The old 1287 (and 1287A) only have 32 bits of CMOS memory. The GRiD is too old to recognize the 64 bits of memory in the replacement chip and will not be able to address the memory correctly from its BIOS, therefore it will not work. You MUST replace the 1287 with another 1287 or preferably a 1287A. You can find these chips out on the web. They are still available from third party dealers, but it does take some googling to find them. Once you get the chip, it is just a matter of dissassembling the computer down to the motherboard, desoldering the old chip out, and soldering the new chip in. But it does take some skill and good equipment to do this. I have a tutorial on how to do this, but the file is too big and I have not been able to load it onto Shawn's server directly yet.
>
> 2) You can modify the old 1287 itself by putting a new battery in it, so to speak. The best way to do this is to again disassemble the computer down to the motherboard and desolder the 1287 chip off of it. Then you have to use a dremel tool to get down to the old battery inside the epoxy case and detach the old battery leads. Then you solder wires to the detached connectors (pins 16 and 20) and connect a coin battery holder to the wires and slip a new battery into place. Thne you can resolder the 1287 back into place on the motherboard. You have to be VERY careful to preserve all the pins. Break one, and it's ruined. You'll have to get a new chip. There are files on our forum and on the web that can describe in detail how to do all this.
>
> You say you want to maximize your 1530. Well, that depends on how far you want to go. The maximum RAM for a 1520 is 8 Mb (recommende is only 4 MB according to GRiD). However, technically, the maximum RAM for the 1530 is 16 Mb. GRiD did not recommend this, however, and stated the maximum RAM is 8 MB. Now Shawn is also correct in that the the RAM is extremely difficult to find. It has to be SIPP, not SIMM. SIPP was not on the market very long, as SIMM replaced it quickly. You can find a fairly good amount of 256K SIPP. But 1 MB SIPP's are as rare as chicken's teeth. Good luck with that. Shawn is also correct in that the maximum size hard drive is 100 MB (Conner 34104). The Conner hard drives are extremely difficult to find also, though not impossible. However, it also depends on how far you want to go. There are some later Conner HDD's with up to 512 Mb that both Shawn and I have managed to adapt to a couple of our 1520's and 1530's. But it requires a change in the BIOS and burning new BIOS chips on EPROMS's. This again requires some specialized equipment to do, an EPROM burner and a HEX file editor to make the necessary changes in the BIOS. However, those files are also on our forum, and Shawn has detailed a very nice explanation of how to do that, if you're willing to go that far.
>
> The coprocessor is, of course, a 30387 chip, and it should be at least 12.5 MHz, which is the speed of the 1530. You could run slower, but that defeats the purpose, doesn't it? As to connecting to the internet, all you have is the 300 BAUD modem that it comes with through the serial port. You would have to connect another device to get any kind of a decent speed, however, the problem comes in that the OS (DOS 3.21 through DOS 6.22) cannot handle large addressing concerns. So trying to connect a USB, or CDROM, or a HDD bigger than about 532 MB (or thereabouts) would only confuse it. There are some Adaptec portable SCSI connectors that will integrate into the parallel port and connect some of these devices. I've done it with my 1530 to connnect to a CDROM. It provides a connection protocol that allows you to address larger memory sizes, and relay that back to the primitive DOS abilities of the computer. You could use this to connect to a device that will allow you quicker access to the internet.
>
> I have seen your pictures. As to the AMD 386 DX chip, it is a suitable replacement for the standard 386SX chip of the 1530. However, the standard 386 chip only runs at 25 MHz, so you aren't using the AMD chip at its full speed. As to the wires, Depending upon the motherboard revision, you may find some wires running around on the motherboard that are soldered into place on certain pins of certain chips. These are usually very small wires that are neatly placed onto the motherboard. This are not third party revisions. This was done by the GRiD factory itself as part of their several revisions.
>
> I must say that the revision that motherboard has is one I have never seen before. I have never seen the CPU all the way to the front and sideways, nor have I seen the 1287 chip sideways either. Very interesting. I wonder if this was a British version or something like that.
>
> As to the HDD not being recognized, yes, that is due to the configuration error 02. The CMOS memory contains the parameters of the hard drive in the computer. If the battery is dead, the memory is unpowered, and the computer cannot read those parameters into ROM when it boots up. It has to be able to read them into ROM in order to recognize the HDD. If it can't recognize the HDD, the computer, of course, will act like it's not even there. You have to replace the 1287 or its battery to get the computer to recognize the HDD. However, be aware that you HDD may also be bad. The Conners were notorious for going bad from spindle problems and sticky heads.
>
> I hope that helps you, Manuel.
>
> Good luck with your GRiD!
>
> Phil
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2312
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 13:59:53 +0100
From: Manuel
Subject: repaired my Conner HDD CP-3044

Hi at all,

As i mentioned before my Conner HDD was not working and spinning up and down constantly when connected to power.

I just put it on power with an external power supply - the same.

Then I decided to open it. It uses Torx TX 15 Screws. I know one shouldnt to this - but doesnt matter, right now its broken and useless.

Turned it on without casing and saw that the head is not moving at all.
I looked at some youtube videos and saw that these are moving and making some "clicking" noises after spin up. Mine doesn't. Its complety in the middle of the platter and doesnt move at all.

So I turned it off and pushed it to the side with my finger. I needed some pressure (starting softly to harder and harder) until it made "click" and moved instantly to the side.

I turned it on again... et voila. Head moved to the middle again. Now its working. I think it was stuck somehow.

I powered it up serveral times. Head moves, making "clicking" noises in the beginning and hdd spins constantly.

Be careful to not do pressure from the top , just from the side to the head arm, because the head should not scratch the surface.

Im curious what data is on it (if there is any) :D

I thought it might be some useful information for someone instead of buying a new one or kicking it into trash :)

regards from germany
Manuel.

P.S.: Now im going to remove the DALLAS Chip next week. I just ordered a professional soldering iron station. Would you use solder sucking wick or a pump?

Yahoo! Message number: 2313
Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2011 16:09:22 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: bought Gridcase 1530 on ebay, how to open, PSU not original one?

I did something like that once...
I used a Xircom PE3 parallel to ethernet adapter on my Grid 1550SX and the Arachne web browser running in DOS 6.0.   I logged in to my Yahoo webmail and sent myself a message.  When I went to retrieve it I noticed that it was at the bottom of the stack of messages because the Grid had told my email client that it was dated 1987. (It's not at all Y2K compatible.)
It was an extremely SLOW process.   While waiting for the web page to load I had time to go to the next room and make myself a cup of tea.  It was an interesting experience but not one that I would care to repeat every day.
This particular machine has the battery instead of the Dallas chip and that's a good thing but there is still the problem of finding a good hard drive when the compatible models were discontinued more than 20 years ago.  I like it because it has two com ports and an internal mouse.  If I could find a solution to the drive problem I would like to use it to monitor and analyze RS-232 communication/protocol between unknown devices.  Meanwhile, it's sitting there on the shelf with the batteries dead or dying...














--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Manuel <Phantombrain@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Shawn,
>
> thanks for the fast reply and all those informations! :)
>
> I booted it up. It has 640K + 14xxKbyte EMS equals 2M in total. Good to know that I can add it up to 8M. But thats one of the last steps :)
>
> The Harddisk spins up... then turns of for 5 seconds... and on... and of... is it normal due to the empty DALLAS chip or is the HDD defective?
>
> If I CTRL-ALT+DEL and press F1 the floppy wants to boot. HDD is not spinning up anymore and silent.
> Right now I dont have a floppydisk here but im going to try that next week.
>
> Internet:
> I thought I can add a ISA Card but the 1530 has no expansion.
> So im going to put a parallel to ethernet Adapter at the port parallel port.
> Then its possible to connect to the internet. There are some DOS Browsers, IRC Clients, FTP Server/Clients and so on.
> Im happy with text only mode, browsing with just text and no advertising... Its fun! :)
>
> There is an 386DX40 CPU in it. I dont know if its the original one?!
>
> Does anyone else know if the DS12887A will work?
> Maybe otherwise I'm trying to open the Dallas chip to mod it with an external battery. It would be the better choice for the future so i dont need to replace it again.
>
> regards
> Manuel
>
> P.S.: The Mame Developers (the ones who make these old emulations) and dumping al those old roms and mainboards are gurus at architectures, bioses, decrypting etc.
> Maybe one can ask them to look at those biosfiles youre talking about?
>
>
>
> Am 02.12.2011 um 16:30 schrieb Shawnerz:
>
> >
> > Hello Manuel.
> > I read over you emails and I'll try to answer your questions.
> >
> > >thank you for accepting my membership here!
> > You are welcome.  We are always looking for more members.  Maybe we will get someone to help us better understand the BIOS code in the EPROMs.
> >
> > >But I think its not the original PSU since its from "Veridata" and has an output of 18V --- ... , 2.2A
> > It is not the original poer supply, but it should be OK.  You are probably OK up to 20 volts.  I know I have run my 1520 at 12 volts, so the power supply will accept a wide range of voltages.  Just to let you know, that at 12 volts, the computer will not boot.  If the computer is booted at 14 volts and the voltage goes down to 12, the Grid will still operate.
> >
> > >Biggest HDD, maximum RAM, coprocessor, connecting it to the Internet and so on.
> > The 1530 BIOS will allow the Grid to boot from only 6 different Conner hard drives.  I think the largest is 100 MB.  The hard drives are out there, but they are hard to find.
> > I don't have a 1530, but I have several 1520's.  I think the 1530 uses the same RAM.  If so, the most RAM is 8 MB.  The RAM is very hard to find.  It is SIPP.  It looks like SIMM memory, but it has pins on the bottom.  I know people have tried to solder pins to a SIMM RAM.  The problem I had is the SIMM is too large and the top cover will not fit.
> > Connecting to the Internet: that's going to be difficult.  Not impossible, but difficult.  I'm not 100% sure, but I think microprocessor is a 386SX.  THe laptop was designed and built in the early 1990's.  So, it will be difficult.
> >
> > >Can I order this one as a replacement?
> > > http://www.ebay.de/itm/DS12887A-RTC-Realtime-Clock-Multiplex-Bus-UL-DIP24-/310256627810?pt=Bauteile&hash=item483cbc7062
> > I might be wrong, but I you cannot.  We had this discussion in the Grid group before, and I think the answer is "no."  I do not remember the reason.  I think there are more pins in 12887A than on the 1287.
> >
> > >What about the Power Supply is the 18V good to use?
> > >Does anyone knows the polarity? Its not visible on the PSU I have and its even not visible on the GRID.
> >
> > Any power supply that can supply 16V DC at 2 to 2.5 amps will work.  I do not know what is the power connector on the 1530.  If it is the round "barrel" type connector, the polarity is center positive.  In other words, the center pin on the barrel connector is positive, and the outer part is negative.
> > If it has the 3 pin connector like the 1550SX, I will have to look at my notes later today when I get home from work.
> >
> > The 18V power supply should be OK as long as the polarity is correct.
> >
> > I hope this helps,
> > -Shawn
> >
> >
> >
> > From: phantombrainm <Phantombrain@...>
> > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 9:33 AM
> > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: bought Gridcase 1530 on ebay, how to open, PSU not original one?
> >
> > Ok, ive taken it partly apart with the 1520 manual it seems the same so far.
> >
> > I found the Dallas DS1287 Chip :(
> > I would have like a battery instead :D
> > 
> > Can I order this one as a replacement?
> >
> > http://www.ebay.de/itm/DS12887A-RTC-Realtime-Clock-Multiplex-Bus-UL-DIP24-/310256627810?pt=Bauteile&hash=item483cbc7062
> >
> > What about the Power Supply is the 18V good to use?
> > Does anyone knows the polarity? Its not visible on the PSU I have and its even not visible on the GRID.
> >
> > kind regards
> > Manuel
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "phantombrainm" <Phantombrain@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > thank you for accepting my membership here!
> > >
> > > I bought an Gridcase 1530 on ebay and it looks like brand new.
> > >
> > > But I think its not the original PSU since its from "Veridata" and has an output of 18V --- ... , 2.2A
> > > 
> > > On the Grid itself its saying input Power 16VDC.
> > >
> > > Seller has pictures on the auction and is saying its working but i havent turned it on yet.
> > >
> > > I dont like the idea of overvolting. Maybe I should look into the cellar if i find another power supply with for e.x. 14 volts and its running smooth okay but overvolting is not a good idea.
> > >
> > >
> > > Also i see the configuration 02 error on the pictures an some disk boot failure errors.
> > > Thats the cmos for sure. Im wondering if it has the Dallas ship or a battery but need to know how to open it.
> > > Someone here has a 47MB PDF for that i read some days ago?
> > >
> > > If you provide me with that file or other stuff i might need for the beginning it would be very appreciated: grid AT women-at-work DOT org
> > >
> > > My goal of my new toy at the end is to get the most out of it.
> > > Biggest HDD, maximum RAM, coprocessor, connecting it to the Internet and so on.
> > >
> > > Lets see whats possible :)
> > >
> > > regards from germany
> > > Manuel
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2314
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 17:34:39 +0100
From: Manuel
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: bought Gridcase 1530 on ebay, how to open, PSU not original one?
text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Thats the exact thing i wanted to do.
Using a Xircom PE3 parallel to ethernet adapter with the DOS Intel Xicrom drivers.

Arachne is also on my to do list. Pity its so slow like you're saying. But there are also IRC programmes, lynx for dos (text web browser), ftp clients and so on.

Its just for fun. Lets see. =)

regards
Manuel

Am 03.12.2011 um 17:09 schrieb Androgenoide:

> I did something like that once...
> I used a Xircom PE3 parallel to ethernet adapter on my Grid 1550SX and the Arachne web browser running in DOS 6.0. I logged in to my Yahoo webmail and sent myself a message. When I went to retrieve it I noticed that it was at the bottom of the stack of messages because the Grid had told my email client that it was dated 1987. (It's not at all Y2K compatible.)
> It was an extremely SLOW process. While waiting for the web page to load I had time to go to the next room and make myself a cup of tea. It was an interesting experience but not one that I would care to repeat every day.
> This particular machine has the battery instead of the Dallas chip and that's a good thing but there is still the problem of finding a good hard drive when the compatible models were discontinued more than 20 years ago. I like it because it has two com ports and an internal mouse. If I could find a solution to the drive problem I would like to use it to monitor and analyze RS-232 communication/protocol between unknown devices. Meanwhile, it's sitting there on the shelf with the batteries dead or dying...
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Manuel <Phantombrain@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Shawn,
> >
> > thanks for the fast reply and all those informations! :)
> >
> > I booted it up. It has 640K + 14xxKbyte EMS equals 2M in total. Good to know that I can add it up to 8M. But thats one of the last steps :)
> >
> > The Harddisk spins up... then turns of for 5 seconds... and on... and of... is it normal due to the empty DALLAS chip or is the HDD defective?
> >
> > If I CTRL-ALT+DEL and press F1 the floppy wants to boot. HDD is not spinning up anymore and silent.
> > Right now I dont have a floppydisk here but im going to try that next week.
> >
> > Internet:
> > I thought I can add a ISA Card but the 1530 has no expansion.
> > So im going to put a parallel to ethernet Adapter at the port parallel port.
> > Then its possible to connect to the internet. There are some DOS Browsers, IRC Clients, FTP Server/Clients and so on.
> > Im happy with text only mode, browsing with just text and no advertising... Its fun! :)
> >
> > There is an 386DX40 CPU in it. I dont know if its the original one?!
> >
> > Does anyone else know if the DS12887A will work?
> > Maybe otherwise I'm trying to open the Dallas chip to mod it with an external battery. It would be the better choice for the future so i dont need to replace it again.
> >
> > regards
> > Manuel
> >
> > P.S.: The Mame Developers (the ones who make these old emulations) and dumping al those old roms and mainboards are gurus at architectures, bioses, decrypting etc.
> > Maybe one can ask them to look at those biosfiles youre talking about?
> >
> >
> >
> > Am 02.12.2011 um 16:30 schrieb Shawnerz:
> >
> > >
> > > Hello Manuel.
> > > I read over you emails and I'll try to answer your questions.
> > >
> > > >thank you for accepting my membership here!
> > > You are welcome. We are always looking for more members. Maybe we will get someone to help us better understand the BIOS code in the EPROMs.
> > >
> > > >But I think its not the original PSU since its from "Veridata" and has an output of 18V --- ... , 2.2A
> > > It is not the original poer supply, but it should be OK. You are probably OK up to 20 volts. I know I have run my 1520 at 12 volts, so the power supply will accept a wide range of voltages. Just to let you know, that at 12 volts, the computer will not boot. If the computer is booted at 14 volts and the voltage goes down to 12, the Grid will still operate.
> > >
> > > >Biggest HDD, maximum RAM, coprocessor, connecting it to the Internet and so on.
> > > The 1530 BIOS will allow the Grid to boot from only 6 different Conner hard drives. I think the largest is 100 MB. The hard drives are out there, but they are hard to find.
> > > I don't have a 1530, but I have several 1520's. I think the 1530 uses the same RAM. If so, the most RAM is 8 MB. The RAM is very hard to find. It is SIPP. It looks like SIMM memory, but it has pins on the bottom. I know people have tried to solder pins to a SIMM RAM. The problem I had is the SIMM is too large and the top cover will not fit.
> > > Connecting to the Internet: that's going to be difficult. Not impossible, but difficult. I'm not 100% sure, but I think microprocessor is a 386SX. THe laptop was designed and built in the early 1990's. So, it will be difficult.
> > >
> > > >Can I order this one as a replacement?
> > > > http://www.ebay.de/itm/DS12887A-RTC-Realtime-Clock-Multiplex-Bus-UL-DIP24-/310256627810?pt=Bauteile&hash=item483cbc7062
> > > I might be wrong, but I you cannot. We had this discussion in the Grid group before, and I think the answer is "no." I do not remember the reason. I think there are more pins in 12887A than on the 1287.
> > >
> > > >What about the Power Supply is the 18V good to use?
> > > >Does anyone knows the polarity? Its not visible on the PSU I have and its even not visible on the GRID.
> > >
> > > Any power supply that can supply 16V DC at 2 to 2.5 amps will work. I do not know what is the power connector on the 1530. If it is the round "barrel" type connector, the polarity is center positive. In other words, the center pin on the barrel connector is positive, and the outer part is negative.
> > > If it has the 3 pin connector like the 1550SX, I will have to look at my notes later today when I get home from work.
> > > 
> > > The 18V power supply should be OK as long as the polarity is correct.
> > >
> > > I hope this helps,
> > > -Shawn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: phantombrainm <Phantombrain@...>
> > > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 9:33 AM
> > > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: bought Gridcase 1530 on ebay, how to open, PSU not original one?
> > >
> > > Ok, ive taken it partly apart with the 1520 manual it seems the same so far.
> > >
> > > I found the Dallas DS1287 Chip :(
> > > I would have like a battery instead :D
> > >
> > > Can I order this one as a replacement?
> > >
> > > http://www.ebay.de/itm/DS12887A-RTC-Realtime-Clock-Multiplex-Bus-UL-DIP24-/310256627810?pt=Bauteile&hash=item483cbc7062
> > >
> > > What about the Power Supply is the 18V good to use?
> > > Does anyone knows the polarity? Its not visible on the PSU I have and its even not visible on the GRID.
> > >
> > > kind regards
> > > Manuel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "phantombrainm" <Phantombrain@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > thank you for accepting my membership here!
> > > >
> > > > I bought an Gridcase 1530 on ebay and it looks like brand new.
> > > >
> > > > But I think its not the original PSU since its from "Veridata" and has an output of 18V --- ... , 2.2A
> > > >
> > > > On the Grid itself its saying input Power 16VDC.
> > > >
> > > > Seller has pictures on the auction and is saying its working but i havent turned it on yet.
> > > >
> > > > I dont like the idea of overvolting. Maybe I should look into the cellar if i find another power supply with for e.x. 14 volts and its running smooth okay but overvolting is not a good idea.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Also i see the configuration 02 error on the pictures an some disk boot failure errors.
> > > > Thats the cmos for sure. Im wondering if it has the Dallas ship or a battery but need to know how to open it.
> > > > Someone here has a 47MB PDF for that i read some days ago?
> > > >
> > > > If you provide me with that file or other stuff i might need for the beginning it would be very appreciated: grid AT women-at-work DOT org
> > > >
> > > > My goal of my new toy at the end is to get the most out of it.
> > > > Biggest HDD, maximum RAM, coprocessor, connecting it to the Internet and so on.
> > > >
> > > > Lets see whats possible :)
> > > >
> > > > regards from germany
> > > > Manuel
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2315
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 07:27:53 +1100
From: Nigel Williams
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] repaired my Conner HDD CP-3044
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 11:59 PM, Manuel <Phantombrain@...> wrote:

> **
>
> Then I decided to open it. It uses Torx TX 15 Screws. I know one shouldnt
> to this - but doesnt matter, right now its broken and useless.
>
I did this too, although on mine the head appeared to be moving ok, but I
expect it suffers from the problem described by Shawn in that missing
lubricant it cannot spin up to the correct speed.

I recommend everyone keeps these broken Conner drives just in case someone
figures out how to re-lubricate the spindle bearing, then we might find
they work fine and we can re-use them. Using a modern lubricant may mean
they keep working for years.

Yahoo! Message number: 2316
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:09:11 +0100
From: Manuel
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] repaired my Conner HDD CP-3044
text/plain; charset=windows-1252

hmmmm....

....do you think I should re-open it and have another look at it?

Where does this oil belong to? I've not seen a closed case/tank or something where it should belong to.

I thought about this by myself. But then closed it. I didnt want to leave it open for too long because of dust.

So you think it will work for a while but due to lack of oil it will fail very soon? Darn...

there is a special forum with the founder HDD Guru http://forum.hddguru.com/

Maybe I register there and start a thread about that...

regards
Manuel


Am 03.12.2011 um 21:27 schrieb Nigel Williams:

>
> On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 11:59 PM, Manuel <Phantombrain@...> wrote:
> Then I decided to open it. It uses Torx TX 15 Screws. I know one shouldnt to this - but doesnt matter, right now its broken and useless.
>
> I did this too, although on mine the head appeared to be moving ok, but I expect it suffers from the problem described by Shawn in that missing lubricant it cannot spin up to the correct speed.
>
> I recommend everyone keeps these broken Conner drives just in case someone figures out how to re-lubricate the spindle bearing, then we might find they work fine and we can re-use them. Using a modern lubricant may mean they keep working for years.
>
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2317
Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2011 19:10:01 -0800
From: jim s
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] repaired my Conner HDD CP-3044
text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Maybe someone on the hdd forum or here with expertise in the area can 
tell what the exact material is, but there is what I heard called 
"magnetic oil" used on the seals.  The bearings were packed with it and 
was to lubricate and hold to the shaft and race and create an airtight 
seal which was at least able to withstand the stated ranges of air 
pressures.

You will note that there is also an air vent on most modern drives which 
slowly equalizes pressure to keep this same seal from blowing out over time.

What happened with older drives is that the oil didn't say in, but was 
forced out or leaked out over time.  I don't think there is a way to 
restore the oil to its proper place and reassemble the drive.

you have stacked on a shaft (wish I could draw will try ascii stack 
illustration).

platter

platter (more on older drives)

bottom plate
bearing
oil space (magnetic oil here)
bearing

You have heads flying on one or both surfaces of each platter.

one of the heads reads a servo track.

when you unstack this, you have issues with restoring the heads to where 
they will ever find the proper running zones ever again.

When the stack is assembled, the platter stack is spun up with 
diagnostic firmware, or a special mode, and if all is good, the servo 
tracks are recorded (the electronics to do this are part of the factory 
rig, not in the drive, sorry). and then the drive is tested to work.

from then on the drive electronics spins up the drive, checks the 
tachometer for correct speed, flys the heads to the correct zone to find 
the servo.  if it finds it, it seeks to find the data area and if they 
are found it stays spinning and goes ready.

if not, it spins down, and may try again, or you may need to recycle 
power to get it to try again.

the seek to find the servo area above frequently is the attempt to find 
the recorded region with the servo and data cylinders.

the spin up and down cycling is what happens when you don't have a good 
servo track.  it will spin for a few seconds then spin down.  Also i 
have seen some drives run the speed thru some ranges to try to get the 
drive to lock on, but eventually the result of a failure is the drive 
spins down.

the problem you had with stiction I think is because these connor drive 
were not parked.  probably the drive was quite warm, and apparently 
there was a coating on the media which was outside the parking zone 
which I suspect physically stuck to the heads with enough force to stop 
it from spinning.

I don't know if any modern drive needs parking but back in the day of 
these early 3 1/2" drives you could loose the drive if you didn't park 
it.  I doubt that if you parked the drives in these portables you had a 
problem.  You gave interesting data that would suggest to me that the 
problem was parking anyway, since you saw it move back to a different 
location

I would personally rig up a linux system with a parallel ata interface 
that works (tested with another similar drive) and try to image this one 
for software.  Since people have posted the basic grid dos disks it 
isn't as critical in the case of a collectible artifact, but you would 
at least be able to restore the software to a replacement if you find a 
working one somewhere.

Jim

On 12/3/2011 3:09 PM, Manuel wrote:
>
>
> hmmmm....
>
> ....do you think I should re-open it and have another look at it?
>
> Where does this oil belong to? I've not seen a closed case/tank or 
> something where it should belong to.
>
> I thought about this by myself. But then closed it. I didnt want to 
> leave it open for too long because of dust.
>
> So you think it will work for a while but due to lack of oil it will 
> fail very soon? Darn...
>
> there is a special forum with the founder HDD Guru 
> http://forum.hddguru.com/
>
> Maybe I register there and start a thread about that...
>
> regards
> Manuel
>
>
> Am 03.12.2011 um 21:27 schrieb Nigel Williams:
>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 11:59 PM, Manuel <Phantombrain@... 
>> <mailto:Phantombrain@...>> wrote:
>>
>>     Then I decided to open it. It uses Torx TX 15 Screws. I know one
>>     shouldnt to this - but doesnt matter, right now its broken and
>>     useless.
>>
>> I did this too, although on mine the head appeared to be moving ok, 
>> but I expect it suffers from the problem described by Shawn in that 
>> missing lubricant it cannot spin up to the correct speed.
>>
>> I recommend everyone keeps these broken Conner drives just in case 
>> someone figures out how to re-lubricate the spindle bearing, then we 
>> might find they work fine and we can re-use them. Using a modern 
>> lubricant may mean they keep working for years.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2318
Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2011 03:35:16 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Gridcase 1530 - strange Mainboard modifications...

Manuel,

I have tried hooking up old Conners to more modern computers. However, I would not recommend doing this unless it is also a very old computer, like a P1, running only DOS or maybe Windows 3.1. The reason is that the disk access system of the GRiD is a predecessor or the IDE protocol, one called RLL (Run Length Limited) Protocol, which along with the MFM (Modified Frequency Modulation) protocol were used to connect with HDD's made in the 80's (the old ST412/506 format). But IDE should recognize it as they are able to to be recognized by IDE computers that I put them on. But when you try to hook these old drives up to a more modern system running Windows, you have to be extremely careful as the more modern computer is not going to like the way the old drive is formatted. It may automatically change some of the parameters of the old HDD just so it can read it, which then made the HDD unreadable when I tried to put it back in a GRiD. However, if you're not concerned about any of the data on the HDD, a more modern system up through something like a P1 can definitely read it. Early Windows, as I recall, seemed to be able to read these drives, too. I haven't tried with Windows XP or 7, so I don't know, but I suspect they can read them.

Thanks for the offer, Manuel. I guess all of the GRiD's back then were still being made in California. Of course, the new GRID is now a British company.

For a soldering station, I use the Black Jack BK4000 desoldering station. This unit has a vacuum pump which sucks out the solder steadily at the press of a switch on the handle. I think this is better than soldering wick.

There are Conner Drives for sale out there for sure. I haven't googled them in a very long time. But if you search, you can find them. Just remember, there is that 528MB limit. Now, one thing we have yet to try is hooking up other drives of other manufacturers. Theoretically, it is possible, and it does require altering the BIOS as per Shawn's protocol and burning new EPROM chips. One of these days when I get time, I may try it.

Cheers, everyone,

Phil

Yahoo! Message number: 2319
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 10:08:09 +0100
From: Manuel
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Gridcase 1530 - strange Mainboard modifications...
text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Hi at all!
@shawn @phil: please read too.

I registered at the HDD forum and asked this question and there are some suggestions right now!
Also I asked for an assembler guy and there is also the first response!

So check http://forum.hddguru.com/repairing-old-conner-drives-100mb-oil-spin-t21323.html

I know its another forum but since its topic is HDD only and not Grid I think linking is okay?

Shawn, phil, maybe one of you can add more technical specifications over there. There is also one who want too look at it for free and has hacked other 386 systems to use other drives.
Give it a go! :)

Hope we can get further in this topic!

I also like the idea of contacting a DR company to make "fake" Conners. And ask for special deals for us.

regards
Manuel


Am 04.12.2011 um 04:35 schrieb jeriddian:

> Manuel,
>
> I have tried hooking up old Conners to more modern computers. However, I would not recommend doing this unless it is also a very old computer, like a P1, running only DOS or maybe Windows 3.1. The reason is that the disk access system of the GRiD is a predecessor or the IDE protocol, one called RLL (Run Length Limited) Protocol, which along with the MFM (Modified Frequency Modulation) protocol were used to connect with HDD's made in the 80's (the old ST412/506 format). But IDE should recognize it as they are able to to be recognized by IDE computers that I put them on. But when you try to hook these old drives up to a more modern system running Windows, you have to be extremely careful as the more modern computer is not going to like the way the old drive is formatted. It may automatically change some of the parameters of the old HDD just so it can read it, which then made the HDD unreadable when I tried to put it back in a GRiD. However, if you're not concerned about any of the data on the HDD, a more modern system up through something like a P1 can definitely read it. Early Windows, as I recall, seemed to be able to read these drives, too. I haven't tried with Windows XP or 7, so I don't know, but I suspect they can read them.
>
> Thanks for the offer, Manuel. I guess all of the GRiD's back then were still being made in California. Of course, the new GRID is now a British company.
>
> For a soldering station, I use the Black Jack BK4000 desoldering station. This unit has a vacuum pump which sucks out the solder steadily at the press of a switch on the handle. I think this is better than soldering wick.
>
> There are Conner Drives for sale out there for sure. I haven't googled them in a very long time. But if you search, you can find them. Just remember, there is that 528MB limit. Now, one thing we have yet to try is hooking up other drives of other manufacturers. Theoretically, it is possible, and it does require altering the BIOS as per Shawn's protocol and burning new EPROM chips. One of these days when I get time, I may try it.
>
> Cheers, everyone,
>
> Phil
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2320
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 12:26:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Gridcase 1530 - strange Mainboard modifications...
text/plain; charset=utf-8

 This looks very promising. It should also be mentioned that the Grid 1520 which was a 286 also had the same problems with the Connor drive as I do with mine. Would the lack of a defined drive table in the PC286 be the same on the Grid 1520. IIRC the PC 286 needed a special program to define the HD.

Lawrence




>________________________________
> From: Manuel <Phantombrain@...>
>To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 3:08:09 AM
>Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Gridcase 1530 - strange Mainboard modifications...
>
>
> 
>Hi at all!
>@shawn @phil: please read too.
>
>
>I registered at the HDD forum and asked this question and there are some suggestions right now!
>Also I asked for an assembler guy and there is also the first response!
>
>
>So check http://forum.hddguru.com/repairing-old-conner-drives-100mb-oil-spin-t21323.html
>
>
>I know its another forum but since its topic is HDD only and not Grid I think linking is okay?
>
>
>Shawn, phil, maybe one of you can add more technical specifications over there. There is also one who want too look at it for free and has hacked other 386 systems to use other drives.
>Give it a go! :)
>
>
>Hope we can get further in this topic!
>
>
>I also like the idea of contacting a DR company to make "fake" Conners. And ask for special deals for us.
>
>
>regards
>Manuel
>
>
>
>
>Am 04.12.2011 um 04:35 schrieb jeriddian:
>
> 
>>Manuel,
>>
>>I have tried hooking up old Conners to more modern computers. However, I would not recommend doing this unless it is also a very old computer, like a P1, running only DOS or maybe Windows 3.1. The reason is that the disk access system of the GRiD is a predecessor or the IDE protocol, one called RLL (Run Length Limited) Protocol, which along with the MFM (Modified Frequency Modulation) protocol were used to connect with HDD's made in the 80's (the old ST412/506 format). But IDE should recognize it as they are able to to be recognized by IDE computers that I put them on. But when you try to hook these old drives up to a more modern system running Windows, you have to be extremely careful as the more modern computer is not going to like the way the old drive is formatted. It may automatically change some of the parameters of the old HDD just so it can read it, which then made the HDD unreadable when I tried to put it back in a GRiD. However, if you're not
 concerned about any of the data on the HDD, a more modern system up through something like a P1 can definitely read it. Early Windows, as I recall, seemed to be able to read these drives, too. I haven't tried with Windows XP or 7, so I don't know, but I suspect they can read them.
>>
>>Thanks for the offer, Manuel. I guess all of the GRiD's back then were still being made in California. Of course, the new GRID is now a British company.
>>
>>For a soldering station, I use the Black Jack BK4000 desoldering station. This unit has a vacuum pump which sucks out the solder steadily at the press of a switch on the handle. I think this is better than soldering wick.
>>
>>There are Conner Drives for sale out there for sure. I haven't googled them in a very long time. But if you search, you can find them. Just remember, there is that 528MB limit. Now, one thing we have yet to try is hooking up other drives of other manufacturers. Theoretically, it is possible, and it does require altering the BIOS as per Shawn's protocol and burning new EPROM chips. One of these days when I get time, I may try it.
>>
>>Cheers, everyone,
>>
>>Phil
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2321
Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2011 23:08:44 -0000
From: "airrelic"
Subject: New member

Hey everyone,

My name is Kevin and I am new to this forum. I am certainly glad to have the resources to try and get my 1520 running again!

I have a Gridcase 1520 I have been playing with on and off for a few months. It hangs up on the BIOS screen. From what I have read on the forum it appears to have a dead CMOS battery but I haven't cracked the case to investigate further. I tried the CTRL>Alt>DEL several times but it never tries to boot from the HD (I assume it has one, I can here it running). The error as it is reported reads:

Invalid configuration information; code 02
Strike F1 key to continue

Unfortunately, power supply on my 98SE appears to have failed and I cannot create a boot disk, so I have to fix that now as well. I will give an update on my progress when more info is available.

Kevin

Yahoo! Message number: 2322
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 16:33:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] New member
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Hello Kevin.
Welcome to the group.
 
To get a boot disk, you can go to www.bootdisk.com and get one.  Or go to the Files section of the group located here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RuGRiD-Laptop/files/  and download DOS 3.3.  You might also want to download conf1520.exe as well.  It's a (very limited) configuration utility.
 
The Grid has a strange quirk.  If the CMOS battery is dead, the laptop will not boot from the hard drive.  It doesn't make sense, but that's what happens.  One day, I'll disassemble the BIOS code and see why.  Another new member (Manuel), just yesterday, gave us all a link to a group that may be able to disassemble and interpret the code.  Disassebly is the easy part.  Figuring out what the routines are doing is the difficult part. 
Once things slow down a bit in my life, I will make contact with them.
 
I hope that helps and again, welcome.
-Shawn
 

________________________________
 From: airrelic <kevin.dewitt@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 6:08 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] New member

Hey everyone,

My name is Kevin and I am new to this forum. I am certainly glad to have the resources to try and get my 1520 running again!

I have a Gridcase 1520 I have been playing with on and off for a few months. It hangs up on the BIOS screen. From what I have read on the forum it appears to have a dead CMOS battery but I haven't cracked the case to investigate further. I tried the CTRL>Alt>DEL several times but it never tries to boot from the HD (I assume it has one, I can here it running). The error as it is reported reads:

Invalid configuration information; code 02
Strike F1 key to continue

Unfortunately, power supply on my 98SE appears to have failed and I cannot create a boot disk, so I have to fix that now as well. I will give an update on my progress when more info is available.

Kevin



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2323
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 01:05:52 -0000
From: "airrelic"
Subject: Re: New member

Thanks, Shawn!

My wife of 8 years just walked by the office and poked her head in. "Hey, my dad has one of those Grids with a yellow screen. I used to use it all the time!" Whadya know. I just emailed him and he thinks it's in his closet. I am hoping the manual and boot disk is there also. 8*)

Kevin

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Kevin.
> Welcome to the group.
>  
> To get a boot disk, you can go to www.bootdisk.com and get one.  Or go to the Files section of the group located here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RuGRiD-Laptop/files/  and download DOS 3.3.  You might also want to download conf1520.exe as well.  It's a (very limited) configuration utility.
>  
> The Grid has a strange quirk.  If the CMOS battery is dead, the laptop will not boot from the hard drive.  It doesn't make sense, but that's what happens.  One day, I'll disassemble the BIOS code and see why.  Another new member (Manuel), just yesterday, gave us all a link to a group that may be able to disassemble and interpret the code.  Disassebly is the easy part.  Figuring out what the routines are doing is the difficult part.  
> Once things slow down a bit in my life, I will make contact with them.
>  
> I hope that helps and again, welcome.
> -Shawn

Yahoo! Message number: 2324
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 03:26:21 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Gridcase 1530 - strange Mainboard modifications...

Manuel,

Actually, we already know how to alter the drive tables as suggested by your assembler drive guy on the other forum. What he has suggested, we've already done. That's how we have already adapted the non-standard Conner drives. Both Shawn and I have adapted Conner CFS-420 drives to a 1520 and 1530. It's about a 420 MB drive. I've also adapted CP30174E drives as well as a couple of others. What we have not yet tried is adapting Non-Conner drives, such as a SeaGate.

Lawrence, it would seem to me that the PC286 and the GRiD would both lack user designed drive types in their BIOS's. It makes sense to me. That would force both BIOS's to list drive parameters for the drives they would accept, although I guess the specific drive names and drive parameters the PC286 used would be different from the GRiD. A special program to define the HDD also makes sense, and I bet one could be designed to do the same thing for the GRiD, if a programmer could be found to do it.

Kevin, what Shawn has told you is correct. It is also correct that the configuration error 02 that you get indicates a dead CMOS battery. As I understand it, the computer must read the parameters of the hard drive definition from the CMOS memory into ROM on boot up, otherwise it will not recognize it at all, thus the CMOS battery must be up and running before the computer can boot from the hard drive. But that doesn't prevent the computer from booting up from a floppy, of course. And good luck with your father-in-law's GRiD!

I also had wanted to find a programmer out there to disassemble the BIOS code and explain all of the routines. One of these days I guess Shawn or I will find somebody who will do it.

Phil

Yahoo! Message number: 2325
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 06:32:52 -0000
From: "phantombrainm"
Subject: Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)

Hi,

I fixed my DALLAS Chip. It now got an external CR2032 Battery. Configuration Error 02 is gone. Thank you :)
Now its aksing for time setup. Even after reboot.

Unfortunatly my (fixed(!) - lol) HDD just worked 1 day. Now the head is stuck again and its spinning up and down and up and down....

Which other HDDs can I use? Is there a list of all available (stock) and the ones which are supported with flashing?

I thought only Conner CP drives are usable?
I found a post where someone used a Conner CFS210A.
(http://www.netmagic.net/~clare/gb15xx/messages/1910.html)

Its much cheaper at ebay than the original 40MB one.

Can someone of you create a custom BIOS for me supporting bigger HDDs and sending it to me?

I would pay shipping and the eeproms by Paypal since I dont have an eeprom programmer (yet).

thanks in advance,
Manuel

Yahoo! Message number: 2326
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 19:04:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Hey Manuel.
I don't know if anyone responded to you or not.
I have only gotten a Conner CP420 (480 MB?  I do not remember exactly what size it is) to work in my 1520.  I have tried other drives and even Compact Flash.  I have not been able to make the Grid see it and boot from it.
 
My goal is to use a larger and different hard drive than the Conner.  I got a suggestion to use a Disk On Module instead of Compact Flash.  I found one on Ebay but I have not tried to get the Grid to boot from it.  Perhaps it will be a project during the Christmas break from my job.
-Shawn


________________________________
 From: phantombrainm <Phantombrain@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 1:32 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)

Hi,

I fixed my DALLAS Chip. It now got an external CR2032 Battery. Configuration Error 02 is gone. Thank you :)
Now its aksing for time setup. Even after reboot.

Unfortunatly my (fixed(!) - lol) HDD just worked 1 day. Now the head is stuck again and its spinning up and down and up and down....

Which other HDDs can I use? Is there a list of all available (stock) and the ones which are supported with flashing?

I thought only Conner CP drives are usable?
I found a post where someone used a Conner CFS210A.
(http://www.netmagic.net/~clare/gb15xx/messages/1910.html)

Its much cheaper at ebay than the original 40MB one.

Can someone of you create a custom BIOS for me supporting bigger HDDs and sending it to me?

I would pay shipping and the eeproms by Paypal since I dont have an eeprom programmer (yet).

thanks in advance,
Manuel













------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2327
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 04:06:19 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)

Great, Manuel!

Nice to see you were able to fix that problem. And yes, once you do fix that problem, heh computer is going to ask you to set the time and date, since that information is also normally stored in the CMOS memory. All you have to do is type in two commands. Type "Time", then "hit Enter, and then enter the time. Then type "Date", and then Enter, then type in the date. HOWEVER, remember that these computers are NOT Y2K compliant, and the year you use will have to be 1999 or earlier.

As to the hard drives that the GRiD will take. It is configured to take the CP3022, CP3024, CP3044, CP3042, CP344, and CP3104 hard drives. The first two are 20MB hard drives (one is full height and one is half height I think), the next three are 40MB HDD, and the last one is a 100MB HDD.

As I noted before, the GRID will take other HDD if the BIOS is appropriately altered. Shawn and I have both used the CFS420 HDD (420MB) in our computers. I personally have also successfully installed a CP30174E(170MB), a CP30121 (121MB), and a CP30201 (212MB). However I also had some failure. There were a couple of the 250 MB drives I tried to install and for some reason the GRiD would not recognize them. I don't know if they have some quirk that prevents them from adapting or if I did something incorrectly on the BIOS programming, or what.

You should be able to adapt just about any CP or CFS or CFA Conner HDD to your GRiD with an altered BIOS. I would recommend however that you stay under the 528MB limit (504MiB), as the HDD parameter table has the limits of 1024 cylinders, 16 heads, 63 sectors/track at most. Hardware and firmware pretty much is set for that limit. Some disk managers of the time might enable you to break that limit. To be honest I am not entirely sure how that would work. In any case, the CMOS limits the number of bits describing the cylinders to only 12 bits, so this number at most can only be 4095, thus there is the absolute limit of 2.1Gb for any HDD or other device.

Since I have done it, I do have the capability alter the BIOS and to burn EPROMS. I would first need the dump of your 1530 BIOS (just in case there are some minor changes from my 1530 BIOS), then you would have to procure the CFS210 drive (or whichever drive you would like). Next, I would need the parameters of the hard drive. There is a little program called HDDRIVE that one of our contributors (Phil Brutman) created that will read a hard drive and give you the parameters of that drive. I would need that information. Shawn could get that program to you. You would have to hook the HDD up to another computer and use the program to give you the parameter information. With BIOS dump and the parameter information, I can edit the BIOS and get the new HDD put into it, then burn the chips for you.

As far as I know, it may be able to be possible to put other brands of HDD into the GRiD by this same technique, however, remember that the pin configuration has to be the earlier one. (The 40 pin connector placement is all the way to the left, instead of the more modern IDE placement which is centered. It has to be this way or your backplane will never fit.) But this is entirely unknown. None of us have ever tried it. We've always stayed safe and used just the Conners, when we could find them.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "phantombrainm" <Phantombrain@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I fixed my DALLAS Chip. It now got an external CR2032 Battery. Configuration Error 02 is gone. Thank you :)
> Now its aksing for time setup. Even after reboot.
>
> Unfortunatly my (fixed(!) - lol) HDD just worked 1 day. Now the head is stuck again and its spinning up and down and up and down....
>
> Which other HDDs can I use? Is there a list of all available (stock) and the ones which are supported with flashing?
>
> I thought only Conner CP drives are usable?
> I found a post where someone used a Conner CFS210A.
> (http://www.netmagic.net/~clare/gb15xx/messages/1910.html)
>
> Its much cheaper at ebay than the original 40MB one.
>
> Can someone of you create a custom BIOS for me supporting bigger HDDs and sending it to me?
>
> I would pay shipping and the eeproms by Paypal since I dont have an eeprom programmer (yet).
>
> thanks in advance,
> Manuel
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2328
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:19:16 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hey, Shawn, how about secure digital?  :-)  True, the biggest drive you could use on a '286 would be 2GB, but it would be huge.  And, 2GB SD cards are practically dirt cheap.  If you pay $5 for one, you've paid too much.  :-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: Shawnerz
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)





Hey Manuel.
I don't know if anyone responded to you or not.
I have only gotten a Conner CP420 (480 MB?  I do not remember exactly what size it is) to work in my 1520.  I have tried other drives and even Compact Flash.  I have not been able to make the Grid see it and boot from it.

My goal is to use a larger and different hard drive than the Conner.  I got a suggestion to use a Disk On Module instead of Compact Flash.  I found one on Ebay but I have not tried to get the Grid to boot from it.  Perhaps it will be a project during the Christmas break from my job.
-Shawn


From: phantombrainm <Phantombrain@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 1:32 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)

Hi,

I fixed my DALLAS Chip. It now got an external CR2032 Battery. Configuration Error 02 is gone. Thank you :)
Now its aksing for time setup. Even after reboot.

Unfortunatly my (fixed(!) - lol) HDD just worked 1 day. Now the head is stuck again and its spinning up and down and up and down....

Which other HDDs can I use? Is there a list of all available (stock) and the ones which are supported with flashing?

I thought only Conner CP drives are usable?
I found a post where someone used a Conner CFS210A.
(http://www.netmagic.net/~clare/gb15xx/messages/1910.html)

Its much cheaper at ebay than the original 40MB one.

Can someone of you create a custom BIOS for me supporting bigger HDDs and sending it to me?

I would pay shipping and the eeproms by Paypal since I dont have an eeprom programmer (yet).

thanks in advance,
Manuel













------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2329
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 19:40:22 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)
text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Hey Tom,
:) That would be cool. I know you're being a little sarcastic. But I think the limit is around 512 MB.
But CF and Disk On Module lend themselves to use with Grids because their interfaces are IDE.  No, tricky interfaces need to be used.
I'm also open to new ideas or suggestions. 
-Shawn
 
All typos courtesy of Blackberry.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@sbcglobal.net>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:19:16 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)

Hey, Shawn, how about secure digital?  :-)  True, the biggest drive you could use on a '286 would be 2GB, but it would be huge.  And, 2GB SD cards are practically dirt cheap.  If you pay $5 for one, you've paid too much.  :-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Shawnerz 
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)





Hey Manuel.
I don't know if anyone responded to you or not.
I have only gotten a Conner CP420 (480 MB?  I do not remember exactly what size it is) to work in my 1520.  I have tried other drives and even Compact Flash.  I have not been able to make the Grid see it and boot from it.

My goal is to use a larger and different hard drive than the Conner.  I got a suggestion to use a Disk On Module instead of Compact Flash.  I found one on Ebay but I have not tried to get the Grid to boot from it.  Perhaps it will be a project during the Christmas break from my job.
-Shawn


From: phantombrainm <Phantombrain@gmx.de>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 1:32 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)

Hi,

I fixed my DALLAS Chip. It now got an external CR2032 Battery. Configuration Error 02 is gone. Thank you :)
Now its aksing for time setup. Even after reboot.

Unfortunatly my (fixed(!) - lol) HDD just worked 1 day. Now the head is stuck again and its spinning up and down and up and down....

Which other HDDs can I use? Is there a list of all available (stock) and the ones which are supported with flashing?

I thought only Conner CP drives are usable?
I found a post where someone used a Conner CFS210A.
(http://www.netmagic.net/~clare/gb15xx/messages/1910.html)

Its much cheaper at ebay than the original 40MB one.

Can someone of you create a custom BIOS for me supporting bigger HDDs and sending it to me?

I would pay shipping and the eeproms by Paypal since I dont have an eeprom programmer (yet).

thanks in advance,
Manuel













------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2330
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:11:38 +0100
From: Manuel
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)
text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Hi Shawn,

i had a SD Card <-> IDE Adapter in a media streamer 1 year ago (32mb) for samba, ftp support and so on. I didn't need so much space and it was cheap.

So those adapters are also possible. If there is a difference between DOM, CF, SD Adapter etc. I dunno.

But if u get it to work you might create a Kit of adapter, eeproms (bios) and card and sell it.
I think there are some people interested and maybe you can win some bucks with that =)

Just an idea to motivate you ;)

Im interested by the way - lol

regards
Manuel





Am 10.12.2011 um 20:40 schrieb shawnerz@...:

> Hey Tom,
> :) That would be cool. I know you're being a little sarcastic. But I think the limit is around 512 MB.
> But CF and Disk On Module lend themselves to use with Grids because their interfaces are IDE. No, tricky interfaces need to be used.
> I'm also open to new ideas or suggestions.
> -Shawn
> All typos courtesy of Blackberry.
> From: "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@sbcglobal.net>
> Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:19:16 -0500
> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> ReplyTo: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)
>
> Hey, Shawn, how about secure digital?  :-)  True, the biggest drive you could use on a '286 would be 2GB, but it would be huge.  And, 2GB SD cards are practically dirt cheap.  If you pay $5 for one, you've paid too much.  :-)
>
> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Shawnerz
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 10:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)
>
> Hey Manuel.
> I don't know if anyone responded to you or not.
> I have only gotten a Conner CP420 (480 MB?  I do not remember exactly what size it is) to work in my 1520.  I have tried other drives and even Compact Flash.  I have not been able to make the Grid see it and boot from it.
>
> My goal is to use a larger and different hard drive than the Conner.  I got a suggestion to use a Disk On Module instead of Compact Flash.  I found one on Ebay but I have not tried to get the Grid to boot from it.  Perhaps it will be a project during the Christmas break from my job.
> -Shawn
>
> From: phantombrainm <Phantombrain@gmx.de>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 1:32 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)
>
> Hi,
>
> I fixed my DALLAS Chip. It now got an external CR2032 Battery. Configuration Error 02 is gone. Thank you :)
> Now its aksing for time setup. Even after reboot.
>
> Unfortunatly my (fixed(!) - lol) HDD just worked 1 day. Now the head is stuck again and its spinning up and down and up and down....
>
> Which other HDDs can I use? Is there a list of all available (stock) and the ones which are supported with flashing?
>
> I thought only Conner CP drives are usable?
> I found a post where someone used a Conner CFS210A.
> (http://www.netmagic.net/~clare/gb15xx/messages/1910.html)
>
> Its much cheaper at ebay than the original 40MB one.
>
> Can someone of you create a custom BIOS for me supporting bigger HDDs and sending it to me?
>
> I would pay shipping and the eeproms by Paypal since I dont have an eeprom programmer (yet).
>
> thanks in advance,
> Manuel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2331
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:19:10 +0100
From: Manuel
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)
text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Hi Phil,

Thanks!
I set the date.
And..... the 1530 is year 2000 capable! I set the date to 2011 and it is stored.
Even after reboot and even the grid diagnostics is telling me the correct date.

Im not able to read my bios I dont have a eeprom reader.
Even if its not exactly the same Bios do you think yours would not work?

I have another DOS Computer so I could run HDDRIVE that wouldn't be the problem.
I think im starting looking for a drive and after that we continue to investigate further?

Maybe Shawn has success with his project over x-mas holidays and i'd run a SD/CF or whatever card?

By the way... the Grid Tool allows me also to set the HDD and asks me if my (actually type 17 drive) is correct.
If i choose no I can select between 1 and 47.

Isn't 47 a user defined table? I remeber this...
I've not tried to change something yet. So maybe I can enter heads, cylinders etc. ?

regards
Manuel








Am 10.12.2011 um 05:06 schrieb jeriddian:

> Great, Manuel!
>
> Nice to see you were able to fix that problem. And yes, once you do fix that problem, heh computer is going to ask you to set the time and date, since that information is also normally stored in the CMOS memory. All you have to do is type in two commands. Type "Time", then "hit Enter, and then enter the time. Then type "Date", and then Enter, then type in the date. HOWEVER, remember that these computers are NOT Y2K compliant, and the year you use will have to be 1999 or earlier.
>
> As to the hard drives that the GRiD will take. It is configured to take the CP3022, CP3024, CP3044, CP3042, CP344, and CP3104 hard drives. The first two are 20MB hard drives (one is full height and one is half height I think), the next three are 40MB HDD, and the last one is a 100MB HDD.
>
> As I noted before, the GRID will take other HDD if the BIOS is appropriately altered. Shawn and I have both used the CFS420 HDD (420MB) in our computers. I personally have also successfully installed a CP30174E(170MB), a CP30121 (121MB), and a CP30201 (212MB). However I also had some failure. There were a couple of the 250 MB drives I tried to install and for some reason the GRiD would not recognize them. I don't know if they have some quirk that prevents them from adapting or if I did something incorrectly on the BIOS programming, or what.
>
> You should be able to adapt just about any CP or CFS or CFA Conner HDD to your GRiD with an altered BIOS. I would recommend however that you stay under the 528MB limit (504MiB), as the HDD parameter table has the limits of 1024 cylinders, 16 heads, 63 sectors/track at most. Hardware and firmware pretty much is set for that limit. Some disk managers of the time might enable you to break that limit. To be honest I am not entirely sure how that would work. In any case, the CMOS limits the number of bits describing the cylinders to only 12 bits, so this number at most can only be 4095, thus there is the absolute limit of 2.1Gb for any HDD or other device.
>
> Since I have done it, I do have the capability alter the BIOS and to burn EPROMS. I would first need the dump of your 1530 BIOS (just in case there are some minor changes from my 1530 BIOS), then you would have to procure the CFS210 drive (or whichever drive you would like). Next, I would need the parameters of the hard drive. There is a little program called HDDRIVE that one of our contributors (Phil Brutman) created that will read a hard drive and give you the parameters of that drive. I would need that information. Shawn could get that program to you. You would have to hook the HDD up to another computer and use the program to give you the parameter information. With BIOS dump and the parameter information, I can edit the BIOS and get the new HDD put into it, then burn the chips for you.
>
> As far as I know, it may be able to be possible to put other brands of HDD into the GRiD by this same technique, however, remember that the pin configuration has to be the earlier one. (The 40 pin connector placement is all the way to the left, instead of the more modern IDE placement which is centered. It has to be this way or your backplane will never fit.) But this is entirely unknown. None of us have ever tried it. We've always stayed safe and used just the Conners, when we could find them.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "phantombrainm" <Phantombrain@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I fixed my DALLAS Chip. It now got an external CR2032 Battery. Configuration Error 02 is gone. Thank you :)
> > Now its aksing for time setup. Even after reboot.
> >
> > Unfortunatly my (fixed(!) - lol) HDD just worked 1 day. Now the head is stuck again and its spinning up and down and up and down....
> >
> > Which other HDDs can I use? Is there a list of all available (stock) and the ones which are supported with flashing?
> >
> > I thought only Conner CP drives are usable?
> > I found a post where someone used a Conner CFS210A.
> > (http://www.netmagic.net/~clare/gb15xx/messages/1910.html)
> >
> > Its much cheaper at ebay than the original 40MB one.
> >
> > Can someone of you create a custom BIOS for me supporting bigger HDDs and sending it to me?
> >
> > I would pay shipping and the eeproms by Paypal since I dont have an eeprom programmer (yet).
> >
> > thanks in advance,
> > Manuel
> >
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2332
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 16:00:24 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)
text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Well, actually, I was just dreamin', here.  :-)  The 528MB or 504MiB limits are a BIOS limitation with the INT 12h handler.  Rewriting the BIOS to do LBA translation would take care of that, but that would be a bit of a stretch.  If the INT 12h handler will take a 12-bit address, though, that would be, 4096 addresses (0-4095), so if you could get the CMOS to accept a different number of heads, then the number of cylinders could be quadrupled, plus three.  :-)

I didn't know that about CF and Disk On Module.  I have a 128MB CF card here, but I guess I thought it had its own unique interface.  If it really is IDE, then I might try playing with it a little...unless I get distracted by something else shiny.  :-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: shawnerz@...
To: grid laptops
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)




Hey Tom,
:) That would be cool. I know you're being a little sarcastic. But I think the limit is around 512 MB.
But CF and Disk On Module lend themselves to use with Grids because their interfaces are IDE. No, tricky interfaces need to be used.
I'm also open to new ideas or suggestions.
-Shawn

All typos courtesy of Blackberry.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:19:16 -0500
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)


Hey, Shawn, how about secure digital?  :-)  True, the biggest drive you could use on a '286 would be 2GB, but it would be huge.  And, 2GB SD cards are practically dirt cheap.  If you pay $5 for one, you've paid too much.  :-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: Shawnerz
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)


Hey Manuel.
I don't know if anyone responded to you or not.
I have only gotten a Conner CP420 (480 MB?  I do not remember exactly what size it is) to work in my 1520.  I have tried other drives and even Compact Flash.  I have not been able to make the Grid see it and boot from it.

My goal is to use a larger and different hard drive than the Conner.  I got a suggestion to use a Disk On Module instead of Compact Flash.  I found one on Ebay but I have not tried to get the Grid to boot from it.  Perhaps it will be a project during the Christmas break from my job.
-Shawn


From: phantombrainm <Phantombrain@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 1:32 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)

Hi,

I fixed my DALLAS Chip. It now got an external CR2032 Battery. Configuration Error 02 is gone. Thank you :)
Now its aksing for time setup. Even after reboot.

Unfortunatly my (fixed(!) - lol) HDD just worked 1 day. Now the head is stuck again and its spinning up and down and up and down....

Which other HDDs can I use? Is there a list of all available (stock) and the ones which are supported with flashing?

I thought only Conner CP drives are usable?
I found a post where someone used a Conner CFS210A.
(http://www.netmagic.net/~clare/gb15xx/messages/1910.html)

Its much cheaper at ebay than the original 40MB one.

Can someone of you create a custom BIOS for me supporting bigger HDDs and sending it to me?

I would pay shipping and the eeproms by Paypal since I dont have an eeprom programmer (yet).

thanks in advance,
Manuel













------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2333
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 16:04:22 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)
text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

But, is your 1520 like my 1520?  Or, if they are, would they be the same as Shawn's 1520?  And, which of his 1520s, as I understand he's got "a few" of them?  Computers are not all the same, even within the same model.  Even the slightest difference from one motherboard to the next could lead to a major difference in BIOS.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: Manuel
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)




Hi Shawn,


i had a SD Card <-> IDE Adapter in a media streamer 1 year ago (32mb) for samba, ftp support and so on. I didn't need so much space and it was cheap.


So those adapters are also possible. If there is a difference between DOM, CF, SD Adapter etc. I dunno.


But if u get it to work you might create a Kit of adapter, eeproms (bios) and card and sell it.
I think there are some people interested and maybe you can win some bucks with that =)


Just an idea to motivate you ;)


Im interested by the way - lol


regards
Manuel










Am 10.12.2011 um 20:40 schrieb shawnerz@...:



  Hey Tom,
  :) That would be cool. I know you're being a little sarcastic. But I think the limit is around 512 MB.
  But CF and Disk On Module lend themselves to use with Grids because their interfaces are IDE. No, tricky interfaces need to be used.
  I'm also open to new ideas or suggestions.
  -Shawn


  All typos courtesy of Blackberry.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...>
  Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
  Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:19:16 -0500
  To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
  ReplyTo: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)


  Hey, Shawn, how about secure digital?  :-)  True, the biggest drive you could use on a '286 would be 2GB, but it would be huge.  And, 2GB SD cards are practically dirt cheap.  If you pay $5 for one, you've paid too much.  :-)

  -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
  "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Shawnerz
  To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 10:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)


  Hey Manuel.
  I don't know if anyone responded to you or not.
  I have only gotten a Conner CP420 (480 MB?  I do not remember exactly what size it is) to work in my 1520.  I have tried other drives and even Compact Flash.  I have not been able to make the Grid see it and boot from it.

  My goal is to use a larger and different hard drive than the Conner.  I got a suggestion to use a Disk On Module instead of Compact Flash.  I found one on Ebay but I have not tried to get the Grid to boot from it.  Perhaps it will be a project during the Christmas break from my job.
  -Shawn


  From: phantombrainm <Phantombrain@...>
  To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 1:32 AM
  Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)

  Hi,

  I fixed my DALLAS Chip. It now got an external CR2032 Battery. Configuration Error 02 is gone. Thank you :)
  Now its aksing for time setup. Even after reboot.

  Unfortunatly my (fixed(!) - lol) HDD just worked 1 day. Now the head is stuck again and its spinning up and down and up and down....

  Which other HDDs can I use? Is there a list of all available (stock) and the ones which are supported with flashing?

  I thought only Conner CP drives are usable?
  I found a post where someone used a Conner CFS210A.
  (http://www.netmagic.net/~clare/gb15xx/messages/1910.html)

  Its much cheaper at ebay than the original 40MB one.

  Can someone of you create a custom BIOS for me supporting bigger HDDs and sending it to me?

  I would pay shipping and the eeproms by Paypal since I dont have an eeprom programmer (yet).

  thanks in advance,
  Manuel













  ------------------------------------

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2334
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:46:40 -0600
From: Jared Dion
Subject: RE: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Manuel, You don't need an EPROM reader. In fact you don't even have to take the BIOS chips out of the computer. Just boot it up. The program you need is already on the GRiD. It's DEBUG.EXE Here's the way to dump the BIOS:---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------C:\> DEBUG

    -N MYF000.BIN          (resulting file will be named MYF000.BIN)

    -R BX                  (set BX=0000H/CX=8000H as count of bytes to write,  00008000H = 32K)
    BX 0000
    :0000
    -R CX
    CX 0000
    :8000

    -M F000:0 8000 0100    (copy 32K bytes from F000:0 to offset 0100 in local segment)

    -W 0100                (write from offset 0100 in local segment)
    Writing 8000 bytes

    -Q
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------That will give you the BIOS in a BIN file, which is exactly what I would use in a Hex editor. Which Grid tool are you talking about?  I wouldn't use it yet to redefine your hard drive unless you already know its parameters.In the old days before standard drives type definitions were part of the BIOS, there were initially 46 hard disk types, numbered 1 to 46, that include all the required 
parameters below. Since they covered only the early drives that only went up to 152MB, the
user-configurable Type 47 was created to be the user defined method, and is usually chosen when it is necessary for the remaining parameters to be
entered manually or they can be automatically detected for all newer drives that are detected.CYLINDERS  Number of cylinders.
HEADS      Number of read/write heads.
WPCOM      Write precompensation track.
LANDING
ZONE      Cylinder for parking heads.
SECTORS    Sectors per track.
CAPACITY   Total capacity derived from
above parameters (heads X
cylinders X sectors X 512)
If you have a type 17, I would leave it that way for now. If you put in another HDD, it will almost certainly be a type 47 user defined drive. I remember this tool you're talking about, but only vaguely. What file is it? I'll wait and see what you come up with in terms of the drive. Exactly what drive are wanting to get, BTW? Phil







     

Yahoo! Message number: 2335
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 13:36:22 +0100
From: Manuel
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)
text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi Phil,

I read the Bios (v3.06). Its a 32k file.
If you want it, just tell me where to send it.

So do you think if I select type 47 I dont need a special modified bios?

Im talking of a file called (setup.com , 27kbytes)

It opens phoenix software asc configuration setup programm v3.0

It was part of the 1520 files i downloaded from here i think.

Regards
Manuel

Am 11.12.2011 um 04:46 schrieb Jared Dion <Jeriddian@...>:

> Manuel,
>
> You don't need an EPROM reader. In fact you don't even have to take the BIOS chips out of the computer. Just boot it up. The program you need is already on the GRiD. It's DEBUG.EXE
>
> Here's the way to dump the BIOS:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> C:&#92;> DEBUG
>
>     -N MYF000.BIN          (resulting file will be named MYF000.BIN)
>
>     -R BX                  (set BX=0000H/CX=8000H as count of bytes to write,  00008000H = 32K)
>     BX 0000
>     :0000
>     -R CX
>     CX 0000
>     :8000
> 
>     -M F000:0 8000 0100    (copy 32K bytes from F000:0 to offset 0100 in local segment)
>
>     -W 0100                (write from offset 0100 in local segment)
>     Writing 8000 bytes
>
>     -Q
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> That will give you the BIOS in a BIN file, which is exactly what I would use in a Hex editor.
>
> Which Grid tool are you talking about?  I wouldn't use it yet to redefine your hard drive unless you already know its parameters.
> In the old days before standard drives type definitions were part of the BIOS, there were initially 46 hard disk types, numbered 1 to 46, that include all the required parameters below. Since they covered only the early drives that only went up to 152MB, the user-configurable Type 47 was created to be the user defined method, and is usually chosen when it is necessary for the remaining parameters to be entered manually or they can be automatically detected for all newer drives that are detected.
>
> CYLINDERS  Number of cylinders.
> HEADS      Number of read/write heads.
> WPCOM      Write precompensation track.
> LANDING
> ZONE      Cylinder for parking heads.
> SECTORS    Sectors per track.
> CAPACITY   Total capacity derived from
> above parameters (heads X
> cylinders X sectors X 512)
> If you have a type 17, I would leave it that way for now. If you put in another HDD, it will almost certainly be a type 47 user defined drive. I remember this tool you're talking about, but only vaguely. What file is it?
>
> I'll wait and see what you come up with in terms of the drive. Exactly what drive are wanting to get, BTW?
>
> Phil
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2336
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 22:41:03 -0600
From: Jared Dion
Subject: RE: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)
text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Hi Manuel, Just send the BIN to me as an attachment, if you can. I can work it from there. I'll just need the specific hard drive you want to use.  On the setup.com program, selecting type 1 to 46 allows you to enter the parameters for that particular type of HDD. They are set. Selecting type 47 allows you to enter the parameters of a newer type of HDD. That's all that does. But I don't think this is your answer. This program is not going to let you program a different HDD into your GRiD, because the BIOS is hard wired and cannot be changed in the computer. You will have to ask Shawn if this program can somehow be included in the boot up program to allow your computer to recognize your HDD, but it doesn't matter. In order for your computer to boot up, it must start with the BIOS. The BIOS must have the parameters already there to recognize your HDD. If the parameters aren't there already, you can't boot from the hard drive or even see it, which means you can only boot from the floppy disk. I'm not sure what you are using the setup program for, but as I said, it will not allow you to recognize a HDD not already programmed into the BIOS. That can only come from altering the BIOS and burning new EPROM chips. Let me know which HDD you want to use, and I'll see what I can do to help. Cheers, Phil To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
From: Phantombrain@...
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 13:36:22 +0100
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Can someone create me a custom BIOS? (GC 1530)




























      Hi Phil,
I read the Bios (v3.06). Its a 32k file.If you want it, just tell me where to send it.
So do you think if I select type 47 I dont need a special modified bios?
Im talking of a file called (setup.com , 27kbytes)
It opens phoenix software asc configuration setup programm v3.0
It was part of the 1520 files i downloaded from here i think.
RegardsManuel

Am 11.12.2011 um 04:46 schrieb Jared Dion <Jeriddian@...>:
















Manuel,

You don't need an EPROM reader. In fact you don't even have to take the BIOS chips out of the computer. Just boot it up. The program you need is already on the GRiD. It's DEBUG.EXE

Here's the way to dump the BIOS:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C:&#92;> DEBUG

    -N MYF000.BIN          (resulting file will be named MYF000.BIN)

    -R BX                  (set BX=0000H/CX=8000H as count of bytes to write,  00008000H = 32K)
    BX 0000
    :0000
    -R CX
    CX 0000
    :8000

    -M F000:0 8000 0100    (copy 32K bytes from F000:0 to offset 0100 in local segment)

    -W 0100                (write from offset 0100 in local segment)
    Writing 8000 bytes

    -Q
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That will give you the BIOS in a BIN file, which is exactly what I would use in a Hex editor.

Which Grid tool are you talking about?  I wouldn't use it yet to redefine your hard drive unless you already know its parameters.
In the old days before standard drives type definitions were part of the BIOS, there were initially 46 hard disk types, numbered 1 to 46, that include all the required
parameters below. Since they covered only the early drives that only went up to 152MB, the
user-configurable Type 47 was created to be the user defined method, and is usually chosen when it is necessary for the remaining parameters to be
entered manually or they can be automatically detected for all newer drives that are detected.

CYLINDERS  Number of cylinders.
HEADS      Number of read/write heads.
WPCOM      Write precompensation track.
LANDING
ZONE      Cylinder for parking heads.
SECTORS    Sectors per track.
CAPACITY   Total capacity derived from
above parameters (heads X
cylinders X sectors X 512)
If you have a type 17, I would leave it that way for now. If you put in another HDD, it will almost certainly be a type 47 user defined drive. I remember this tool you're talking about, but only vaguely. What file is it? I'll wait and see what you come up with in terms of the drive. Exactly what drive are wanting to get, BTW? Phil








  

Yahoo! Message number: 2337
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:12:10 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

Okay, I'm new here and I've been having this problem for a while and I'm hoping that you can try to find ways to resolve this.

I purchased a GRiD Convertible 2270 laptop from eBay for $219 (originally a best offer for $279) two years ago and I've been using it to put apps and games on it.

Most recently, even if I have the pentop computer connected to a AC outlet, the power supply charges for a few minutes and then the Battery Low indicator starts flashing and the low battery alarm starts beeping. The pentop computer then goes into standby with the Standby indicator flashing along with the Battery Low indicator. As a result, I had to turn the pentop computer off.

But when I try to turn the pentop computer back on, the Battery Low indicators flashes briefly and the PC shuts off again.

When I first got the pentop PC, the CMOS battery had been dead and I find it annoying that I have to set the date, time and other settings every time I turn it on.

I'm pretty suspicious that something might be wrong with the NiCAD battery pack attached to the pentop computer as I'm suspecting that it's not holding a charge anymore. :(

If I decide to take the pentop computer apart, should I check the CMOS battery to see if there are not any chemicals spreading from the dead battery?

The NiCAD battery pack (GRiD stock number G44-1379) holds a capacity of 9.6 volts and 2.3 amps. Since there are no replacement parts available for the battery pack, should I find a way to disassemble it and look into what caused the battery to not hold a charge anymore?

Here are the specs to my GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop:
* Intel 80486SL processor running at 25 MHz (switchable to 12 MHz)
* Phoenix v1.01 (revision date 1993/11/16)
* 9.5" diagonal sidelit LCD display; 640 x 480-pixel resolution with 64 grayscales
* 2.5" 130 MB Toshiba MK2124FC 4200 RPM hard disk
* 4 MB SDRAM (upgradable to 12 MB)
* Cirrus Logic CL-GD612 card with 512 KB display RAM
* Parallel port/floppy connector for connecting a 3.5" 1.44 MB GRiD Systems external diskette drive (P/N 8790183) or printer
* 68-pin PCMCIA 2.0 storage card
* MS-DOS 6.22 (originally had MS-DOS 6) with Microsoft Windows 3.1 w/pen extensions
* On the back, a serial port with a RS-232C 9-in connector on top and a VGA port for connecting a external VGA monitor on the bottom

Yahoo! Message number: 2338
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 11:33:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Hello Rainbow.
Welcome to the group.
>From what you're describing, your the Ni-Cad batteries inside the recharable pack need to be replaced.  Ni-Cads last about 3 -5 years (if you're really lucky) and somewhere between 750 - 1000 charge cycles (again, if you're lucky).
It is not uncommon for a depleted Ni-Cad cell to internally short or even "reverse".  This usually does not happen until the batteries are old (or you have a vendor in PA who rebuilds your 14V cordless drill battery pack with old cells. :-(  ).
It sounds like the charger attempts to charge the pack by dumping current in to the cells.  Normally, the pack voltage should start to rise.  The voltage does not rise so its trying to tell you the pack is bad.
The internal CMOS battery is probably also dead and in need of replacement.  Keep in mind, this may, or may not, be a rechargable battery.  It probably is not.  I'm not familiar with the "newer" Grids.  Most of us here are more familiar with the older (8088, 286, and 386) Grids.
 
There are many places that will rebuild Ni-Cad packs.  I've used Primecell, and The NiCad Lady.  If you want to do it yourself, I've bought batteries and chargers from megabatteries.com out of The Great White North. :)
Good luck and let us know how things go.
-Shawn


________________________________
 From: Rainbow <rainbow_utonium@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 2:12 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

Okay, I'm new here and I've been having this problem for a while and I'm hoping that you can try to find ways to resolve this.

I purchased a GRiD Convertible 2270 laptop from eBay for $219 (originally a best offer for $279) two years ago and I've been using it to put apps and games on it.

Most recently, even if I have the pentop computer connected to a AC outlet, the power supply charges for a few minutes and then the Battery Low indicator starts flashing and the low battery alarm starts beeping. The pentop computer then goes into standby with the Standby indicator flashing along with the Battery Low indicator. As a result, I had to turn the pentop computer off.

But when I try to turn the pentop computer back on, the Battery Low indicators flashes briefly and the PC shuts off again.

When I first got the pentop PC, the CMOS battery had been dead and I find it annoying that I have to set the date, time and other settings every time I turn it on.

I'm pretty suspicious that something might be wrong with the NiCAD battery pack attached to the pentop computer as I'm suspecting that it's not holding a charge anymore. :(

If I decide to take the pentop computer apart, should I check the CMOS battery to see if there are not any chemicals spreading from the dead battery?

The NiCAD battery pack (GRiD stock number G44-1379) holds a capacity of 9.6 volts and 2.3 amps. Since there are no replacement parts available for the battery pack, should I find a way to disassemble it and look into what caused the battery to not hold a charge anymore?

Here are the specs to my GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop:
* Intel 80486SL processor running at 25 MHz (switchable to 12 MHz)
* Phoenix v1.01 (revision date 1993/11/16)
* 9.5" diagonal sidelit LCD display; 640 x 480-pixel resolution with 64 grayscales
* 2.5" 130 MB Toshiba MK2124FC 4200 RPM hard disk
* 4 MB SDRAM (upgradable to 12 MB)
* Cirrus Logic CL-GD612 card with 512 KB display RAM
* Parallel port/floppy connector for connecting a 3.5" 1.44 MB GRiD Systems external diskette drive (P/N 8790183) or printer
* 68-pin PCMCIA 2.0 storage card
* MS-DOS 6.22 (originally had MS-DOS 6) with Microsoft Windows 3.1 w/pen extensions
* On the back, a serial port with a RS-232C 9-in connector on top and a VGA port for connecting a external VGA monitor on the bottom



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Yahoo! Message number: 2339
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:18:13 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

Thanks for the help. Is there a way to replace the NiCAD batteries inside the rechargeable pack? Just curious.

By the way, the battery pack attempts to charge via the NiCAD batteries for up to a few minutes and then it stops. It would suck that I have to replace the dead NiCAD batteries every three to five years and doing so can require a lot of work. :(

Also, in order to replace the laptop hard drive and replace the CMOS battery, how can I try to take the GRiD Convertible 2270 apart?

Yahoo! Message number: 2340
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:26:09 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

Yes, you ca replace just the cells.  That's what happens whe the pack is rebuilt.  I listed the places that rebuild packs in the last email.  If you were to do it yourself, it would involve takig the pack a part, unsoldering the pack, replacig the cells, the reassembling it.  It's much easier (and a dollars more) to have someoe else do it.  Ad, you don't have to worry about proper disposal of the cadmium carrying cells.

I am not familiar with the 2270 so I can't give you any advice on takig it apart.
-Shawn 
All typos courtesy of Blackberry.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@yahoo.com>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:18:13 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

Thanks for the help. Is there a way to replace the NiCAD batteries inside the rechargeable pack? Just curious.

By the way, the battery pack attempts to charge via the NiCAD batteries for up to a few minutes and then it stops. It would suck that I have to replace the dead NiCAD batteries every three to five years and doing so can require a lot of work. :(

Also, in order to replace the laptop hard drive and replace the CMOS battery, how can I try to take the GRiD Convertible 2270 apart?



------------------------------------

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Yahoo! Message number: 2341
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:29:52 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

Thanks for the help once again. If I can get someone to replace the hard drive and CMOS battery successfully as well as to repair the broken right henge, I'll let you know. :)

Yahoo! Message number: 2342
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 16:00:38 -0500
From: "Len.C"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Ya I would look at any battery in the unit but sure sounds like its the 
main pack.  Chances are its one cell usually that has gone bad or 
reversed voltage which would have to be changed out.

The battery pack most likely one you get it apart will have the cells 
labeled with a model number which you can google and find out the 
voltage, you will then need to check everyone, chances are you will need 
to replace them all for the age they are.  They should be available 
online somewhere, if not check dealextreme.com, at least I think thats 
the name of the place.

You will need to come up with a small spot welder or a high power 
soldering gun and some freeze spray so you can solder tabs on, make sure 
to use flux and watch out for vent holes, solder real quick and use the 
freeze spray to cool it down right away so you don't damage the battery.

When you get it apart take lots of close up pictures so you know what is 
connected to what and also try to draw out the circuit, the last thing 
you want to do is find out you have one in backwards or short a couple 
of them out, they will explode real nice.  Back in the day when my age 
still started with a 1 I was given a wack of nicad D cells, problem was 
they didn't have the tit on the + end, so I solder them up with the big 
old weller.  Well I covered the vent holes on one of them.  Needless to 
say I had to buy a new battery charger as when the D cell went off it 
destroyed the charger, it was a 4 cell charger.  And I never did manage 
to find all of the battery.

On 12/15/2011 2:12 PM, Rainbow wrote:
>
> Okay, I'm new here and I've been having this problem for a while and 
> I'm hoping that you can try to find ways to resolve this.
>
> I purchased a GRiD Convertible 2270 laptop from eBay for $219 
> (originally a best offer for $279) two years ago and I've been using 
> it to put apps and games on it.
>
> Most recently, even if I have the pentop computer connected to a AC 
> outlet, the power supply charges for a few minutes and then the 
> Battery Low indicator starts flashing and the low battery alarm starts 
> beeping. The pentop computer then goes into standby with the Standby 
> indicator flashing along with the Battery Low indicator. As a result, 
> I had to turn the pentop computer off.
>
> But when I try to turn the pentop computer back on, the Battery Low 
> indicators flashes briefly and the PC shuts off again.
>
> When I first got the pentop PC, the CMOS battery had been dead and I 
> find it annoying that I have to set the date, time and other settings 
> every time I turn it on.
>
> I'm pretty suspicious that something might be wrong with the NiCAD 
> battery pack attached to the pentop computer as I'm suspecting that 
> it's not holding a charge anymore. :(
>
> If I decide to take the pentop computer apart, should I check the CMOS 
> battery to see if there are not any chemicals spreading from the dead 
> battery?
>
> The NiCAD battery pack (GRiD stock number G44-1379) holds a capacity 
> of 9.6 volts and 2.3 amps. Since there are no replacement parts 
> available for the battery pack, should I find a way to disassemble it 
> and look into what caused the battery to not hold a charge anymore?
>
> Here are the specs to my GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop:
> * Intel 80486SL processor running at 25 MHz (switchable to 12 MHz)
> * Phoenix v1.01 (revision date 1993/11/16)
> * 9.5" diagonal sidelit LCD display; 640 x 480-pixel resolution with 
> 64 grayscales
> * 2.5" 130 MB Toshiba MK2124FC 4200 RPM hard disk
> * 4 MB SDRAM (upgradable to 12 MB)
> * Cirrus Logic CL-GD612 card with 512 KB display RAM
> * Parallel port/floppy connector for connecting a 3.5" 1.44 MB GRiD 
> Systems external diskette drive (P/N 8790183) or printer
> * 68-pin PCMCIA 2.0 storage card
> * MS-DOS 6.22 (originally had MS-DOS 6) with Microsoft Windows 3.1 
> w/pen extensions
> * On the back, a serial port with a RS-232C 9-in connector on top and 
> a VGA port for connecting a external VGA monitor on the bottom
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2343
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 22:20:43 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

I agree. I left the power supply unplugged for a hour and a half and tried to recharge it and it turns out that the power supply LED stopped blinking. So, you're right.

I'll have to find someone who is experience enough to work on getting the bad NiCAD batteries that and that is not going to be easy.

Yahoo! Message number: 2344
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 14:40:45 -0800
From: jim s
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

On 12/15/2011 2:20 PM, Rainbow wrote:
> I agree. I left the power supply unplugged for a hour and a half and tried to recharge it and it turns out that the power supply LED stopped blinking. So, you're right.
>
> I'll have to find someone who is experience enough to work on getting the bad NiCAD batteries that and that is not going to be easy.
The battery supply people I've tried just take whatever pack you 
supply.  The ones here in Orange County I use have a pretty good small 
shop to open supply cases and rebuild them.

They also have spot welders and metal forming tools that can recreate 
almost any contact that was on your unit.

I won't speak for the ones that Shawn recommended, but I'd look for the 
above skill set in any battery replacement place, or they won't last long.

You should vet the place you go, but look at the ones that Shawn 
recommended as a starting point, and you should be able to get the 
batteries handled.

The harder problem may be if your memory setting battery is shot, there 
are extensive threads on this group discussing the problems of replacing 
those parts, and the battery pack repair people won't be any help there.

Jim

Yahoo! Message number: 2345
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 23:21:11 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

I'm gonna write down what needs to be done to get the NiCAD batteries replaced and do some research on laptop battery pack replacements. :)

I'll try to ask someone for help in this issue. :)

Yahoo! Message number: 2346
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 15:38:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Good plan.
I'd do what Jim said.  Call whatever vendor you decide on.  Tell them you have a Ni-Cad pack that goes to a computer.  You're not sure of the voltage or the internal cells.  Call them first. That way the'll get a heads-up that it's coming.  Send them the pack.  They'll probably call you when they get it, and tell you how much it will be.  Expect somewhere between 40 and 70 dollars.
In a week or so after that, you'll get your pack back, charge it up, and you'll be ready to go.
-Shawn


________________________________
 From: Rainbow <rainbow_utonium@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 6:21 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

I'm gonna write down what needs to be done to get the NiCAD batteries replaced and do some research on laptop battery pack replacements. :)

I'll try to ask someone for help in this issue. :)



------------------------------------

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Yahoo! Message number: 2347
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 23:40:21 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

Hi, Rainbow,

        Welcome to the group. What Shawn and the others have told about the NiCads is spot on. I will address the CMOS battery issue. I agree that your CMOS battery is dead and should be replaced. However, the CMOS battery will almost certainly be hardwired in as some form of Lithium battery. It will not be a rechargeable battery. GRiD used these only as temporary backup power supplies that lasted about 30 to 60 seconds to allow you to switch battery packs without having to plug the computer into a power supply, which was useful out in the field. All you needed was enough charged battery packs and you could keep the computer running indefinitely without being anywhere near a power plug.
        As to disassembling the 2270, I'm afraid I will be of no help to you there. As Shawn said, our focus is almost entirely on the 1500 series models and earlier. Good luck.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:
> When I first got the pentop PC, the CMOS battery had been dead and I find it annoying that I have to set the date, time and other settings every time I turn it on.

> Here are the specs to my GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop:
> * Intel 80486SL processor running at 25 MHz (switchable to 12 MHz)
> * Phoenix v1.01 (revision date 1993/11/16)
> * 9.5" diagonal sidelit LCD display; 640 x 480-pixel resolution with 64 grayscales
> * 2.5" 130 MB Toshiba MK2124FC 4200 RPM hard disk
> * 4 MB SDRAM (upgradable to 12 MB)
> * Cirrus Logic CL-GD612 card with 512 KB display RAM
> * Parallel port/floppy connector for connecting a 3.5" 1.44 MB GRiD Systems external diskette drive (P/N 8790183) or printer
> * 68-pin PCMCIA 2.0 storage card
> * MS-DOS 6.22 (originally had MS-DOS 6) with Microsoft Windows 3.1 w/pen extensions
> * On the back, a serial port with a RS-232C 9-in connector on top and a VGA port for connecting a external VGA monitor on the bottom
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2348
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 00:16:12 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

Fair enough...I already blew nearly $300 on my Christmas list, but as for replacing the NiCAD battery, that is gonna have to wait for a while. :)

Yahoo! Message number: 2349
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 00:19:29 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

Fair enough. I'll do some planning on what needs to be done to at least replace the dying NiCAD batteries and replace the CMOS battery.

As you offer no help for the 2270, it would be very shameful to throw it in the trash, because trying to repair the laptop was too difficult or that people don't have too much of a knowledge to repair it. :(

Yahoo! Message number: 2350
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 02:25:17 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

Sorry, Rainbow,

GRiD is famous mainly for those earlier computers, not so much the later models. As it turns out, those earlier models seem to be the ones that are most coveted and available. We've never had anyone here before who has dealt with a 2270, so we just don't know hardly anything about it. But if you learn enough about the computer, you could be our resident 2270 guru.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:
>
> Fair enough. I'll do some planning on what needs to be done to at least replace the dying NiCAD batteries and replace the CMOS battery.
>
> As you offer no help for the 2270, it would be very shameful to throw it in the trash, because trying to repair the laptop was too difficult or that people don't have too much of a knowledge to repair it. :(
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2351
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 15:15:46 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

Keeping an ancient laptop working is something of a challenge.  It requires a certain willingness to experiment.
The odds are that the computer will be more-or-less usable if you just remove the battery and run it off the AC supply, setting the CMOS values on boot every time... or even leaving it permanently plugged in.  Don't throw the battery away if you ever plan to rebuild it, though.  The odds are that the battery rebuild companies will not have an equivalent shell to put the new cells in.
I never had an original battery for any of my Grids and they are all pretty much limited to AC operation.  I have rebuilt NiCd and Nimh batteries for other laptops, though... just takes patience and experimenting.









--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:
>
> Fair enough. I'll do some planning on what needs to be done to at least replace the dying NiCAD batteries and replace the CMOS battery.
>
> As you offer no help for the 2270, it would be very shameful to throw it in the trash, because trying to repair the laptop was too difficult or that people don't have too much of a knowledge to repair it. :(
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2352
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:49:33 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

Good point there. I will learn more about the GRiD 2270 on my own. ^_^

Yahoo! Message number: 2353
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 20:03:13 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

Unfortunately, the power connector is attached to the battery pack...so in that case, running it off the AC power supply is not possible without having to replace the NiCAD batteries...or doing lots of hacks and workarounds to make it run off of only the AC adapter.

Which means that in my opinion, I believe that GRiD made a terrible design decision when they made the 2270 back in July 1993. I do agree that it is really a challenge to keep a ancient laptop/tablet PC working.

I'm gonna try to ask someone if there is a way of how we can find ways on how to rebuild the NiCAD batteries for the 2270.

Yahoo! Message number: 2354
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 18:41:23 -0500
From: "Len.C"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Well you wont know until you take the battery pack apart.

Once you get it apart you will find out how the pack is arranged, what 
the model number of the batteries in it are, how they are wired in it, 
whether you can remove them after taking pictures of how its all wired 
in and most importantly for you right now is can you remove the 
batteries in it and wire the input from the power supply to the contacts 
on the battery pack so you can use it again while you try to find 
replacement batteries to rebuild it.


On 12/16/2011 3:03 PM, Rainbow wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, the power connector is attached to the battery 
> pack...so in that case, running it off the AC power supply is not 
> possible without having to replace the NiCAD batteries...or doing lots 
> of hacks and workarounds to make it run off of only the AC adapter.
>
> Which means that in my opinion, I believe that GRiD made a terrible 
> design decision when they made the 2270 back in July 1993. I do agree 
> that it is really a challenge to keep a ancient laptop/tablet PC working.
>
> I'm gonna try to ask someone if there is a way of how we can find ways 
> on how to rebuild the NiCAD batteries for the 2270.
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2355
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 23:56:44 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Problems with the GRiD Convertible 2270 rugged laptop.

That sounds helpful too! I appreciate it. I'll try to find what the model number of the batteries in it are and how they are wired in it if that's okay with you.

If there are any replacement batteries available, I'll let you know.

Yahoo! Message number: 2356
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 06:05:25 -0000
From: "Nigel"
Subject: 1520 ROM images?

Thanks to Shawn I can get my 1520 more or less working, however the interposer which sits between the floppy/hard drive and the mainboard (it has the two ribbon cables on a small board with connectors that fit into the back of the drives) is causing the DC/DC converter to shutdown.

Anyone have an ROM images (DOS 3.X) suitable for a 1520 please? I can burn these with the programmer and then at least be able to exercise the machine somewhat.

thanks.

Yahoo! Message number: 2357
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 00:37:57 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

First of all, I have now run into two more problems and I'm hoping that you have the time to answer them as much as you can:

1. This past Sunday (Christmas), I asked someone to take apart the GRiD 2270 laptop and I found the dead CMOS battery soldered to the motherboard. The battery can be found near the hard drive. You can see some photos of what the GRiD 2270 looks like in my photo album.

It is a NiCAD CMOS and it reads the following:

Varta (vertical)
NiCd
6/V30H
7.2V
30mAh
14h3m
033
+

As far as I can tell, the brand of the NiCAD CMOS battery is believed to be Varta 6/V30H, a 7.2 volt, 30 mAh battery. Where can I find replacement parts for the dead CMOS battery?

And because the NiCAD CMOS battery is soldered to the motherboard, how can it be replaced without destroying the motherboard?


2. The 130 MB Toshiba MK2124FC hard drive was recently replaced with a 1.2 GB Toshiba MK2720FC hard drive that was originally on the Toshiba Tecra 720CDT laptop which now has a 4.32 GB Toshiba MK4309MAT hard drive.

The problem is that when I try to turn the GRiD 2270 laptop on and attempt to boot from a floppy, I get the following error:

"press F1 to retry boot or touch screen with pen"

And then pressing F1 to retry boot or using the pen to touch the screen results in this error message:

"Invalid partition table"

How can I get this fixed as well?

I'm hoping that I can get the GRiD 2270 laptop saved from being thrown in the garbage, because it's literally not usable now.

Yahoo! Message number: 2358
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 20:26:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Rainbow,
>Where can I find replacement parts for the dead CMOS battery?

Is the battery similar to one found on this page? http://www.rfidbackup.com/Varta/Varta-40H.html
If so, you could order it.  As long as it's 7.2V and it physically fits in the holes, it will work.
 
>And because the NiCAD CMOS battery is soldered to the motherboard, how can it be replaced without destroying the motherboard?

It will have to be unsoldered and replaced.  Unsoldering the old battery and soldering in the new one will not destroy the motherboard.
 
>"Invalid partition table"
>How can I get this fixed as well?
 
I'm not too familiar with the 2270.  But, from what you are saying, it looks like the 2270 "sees" the hard drive.  "Invalid partition table" indicated that the Grid saw the hard drive, and attempted to boot from it.  My guess is it can't deal with such a large drive.
Here's an idea:  Do you have a MS-DOS disk?  If you do, boot from the floppy drive.  Then, format the hard drive.  Keep in mind, you won't get the full 1.2GB.  I don't know what the exact limitation is, but don't be suprised if you only get 504 MB.
If you don't have a boot floopy disk, you can go to www.bootdisk.com and download one.  Keep in mind that the computer you do the download on has to have a floppy drive.  They are getting harder to find.
 
I hope that helps,
-Shawn 


________________________________
 From: Rainbow <rainbow_utonium@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 7:37 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

First of all, I have now run into two more problems and I'm hoping that you have the time to answer them as much as you can:

1. This past Sunday (Christmas), I asked someone to take apart the GRiD 2270 laptop and I found the dead CMOS battery soldered to the motherboard. The battery can be found near the hard drive. You can see some photos of what the GRiD 2270 looks like in my photo album.

It is a NiCAD CMOS and it reads the following:

Varta (vertical)
NiCd
6/V30H
7.2V
30mAh
14h3m
033
+

As far as I can tell, the brand of the NiCAD CMOS battery is believed to be Varta 6/V30H, a 7.2 volt, 30 mAh battery. Where can I find replacement parts for the dead CMOS battery?

And because the NiCAD CMOS battery is soldered to the motherboard, how can it be replaced without destroying the motherboard?


2. The 130 MB Toshiba MK2124FC hard drive was recently replaced with a 1.2 GB Toshiba MK2720FC hard drive that was originally on the Toshiba Tecra 720CDT laptop which now has a 4.32 GB Toshiba MK4309MAT hard drive.

The problem is that when I try to turn the GRiD 2270 laptop on and attempt to boot from a floppy, I get the following error:

"press F1 to retry boot or touch screen with pen"

And then pressing F1 to retry boot or using the pen to touch the screen results in this error message:

"Invalid partition table"

How can I get this fixed as well?

I'm hoping that I can get the GRiD 2270 laptop saved from being thrown in the garbage, because it's literally not usable now.



------------------------------------

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Yahoo! Message number: 2359
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 04:49:49 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Okay, Rainbow,

First of all, it's actually easy to do the replacement of the CMOS battery. However, I have some doubts as to that being the CMOS battery. Do you have documentation to that effect showing that this is indeed the correct CMOS battery? CMOS batteries are usually going to be Lithium Ion technology, not NiCaD, as NiCads wouldn't last six months and you would be replacing them all the time. Lithium Ion would last five to ten years. I would keep looking elsewhere on the motherboard. DO you have a Dallas RTC time chip on the board?

However, let's say that this is indeed the right battery. Replacing the battery is actually quite easy. The annoying part is disassembling the computer all the way down to the motherboard. You would have to remove the motherboard all by itself. The battery is fairly easy to obtain. There are several online battery sales places that can provide it inexpensively. Then it is just a matter of unsoldering the old battery from the motherboaard and soldering the new one into place, then reassembling the whole computer.

If you could, could you provide a picture of the entire motherboard exposed or by itself? I might be able to confirm what the CMOS battery would be.

As to the hard drive, replacing the original drive with a 1.2 Gb drive should not be done right now because the BIOS of the computer as well as the OS likely may not be able to recognize it at all. While the 2270 is slightly more advanced than the 1500 series we usually work with, the BIOS may not be developed enough to recognize HDD capacities past the 528 MB limit of that day. The BIOS accesses the HDD through an INT13h command in the BIOS which has that limitation, as Mike Brutman has pointed out. Putting a larger capacity drive in there would then only confuse the BIOS and cause it to not recognize the HDD at all. I know this to be the case with the 1500 series computers. You say the computer responds with the error message "Invalid partition table." This could be the computer telling you it simply can't count 1.2 Gb of capacity. It also might be telling you the partitions on the HDD are corrupted and the drive just needs to be formatted and reloaded with software, but I doubt it. You should put the original HDD back in, at least for now. Once the other problems are resolved and you can boot up properly, then you can start looking at upgrading the HDD. Let's take care of one problem at a time.

But if you are actually to the point of throwing the unit away, I would appreciate you sending it to me instead. I would try to do what I can with it.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:
>
> First of all, I have now run into two more problems and I'm hoping that you have the time to answer them as much as you can:
>
> 1. This past Sunday (Christmas), I asked someone to take apart the GRiD 2270 laptop and I found the dead CMOS battery soldered to the motherboard. The battery can be found near the hard drive. You can see some photos of what the GRiD 2270 looks like in my photo album.
> 
> It is a NiCAD CMOS and it reads the following:
>
> Varta (vertical)
> NiCd
> 6/V30H
> 7.2V
> 30mAh
> 14h3m
> 033
> +
>
> As far as I can tell, the brand of the NiCAD CMOS battery is believed to be Varta 6/V30H, a 7.2 volt, 30 mAh battery. Where can I find replacement parts for the dead CMOS battery?
>
> And because the NiCAD CMOS battery is soldered to the motherboard, how can it be replaced without destroying the motherboard?
>
>
> 2. The 130 MB Toshiba MK2124FC hard drive was recently replaced with a 1.2 GB Toshiba MK2720FC hard drive that was originally on the Toshiba Tecra 720CDT laptop which now has a 4.32 GB Toshiba MK4309MAT hard drive.
>
> The problem is that when I try to turn the GRiD 2270 laptop on and attempt to boot from a floppy, I get the following error:
>
> "press F1 to retry boot or touch screen with pen"
>
> And then pressing F1 to retry boot or using the pen to touch the screen results in this error message:
>
> "Invalid partition table"
>
> How can I get this fixed as well?
>
> I'm hoping that I can get the GRiD 2270 laptop saved from being thrown in the garbage, because it's literally not usable now.
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2360
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 15:30:11 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Use of a NiCd to retain CMOS settings is rare but not unheard of.  I have a 386 AST that uses one and, if it's been sitting on the shelf for a few months, you pretty much have to go through SETUP before you boot it.
Speaking of which... the 2270 might almost be new enough to have a BIOS option on boot rather than having to run an external setup routine...(?)  Have you tried tapping typical keys (such as F1, F2 or DEL) while it's trying to boot?
Either the dead CMOS battery or the new hard drive would require you to run SETUP... since you have both finding out how to run SETUP is doubly important.  When you do access the BIOS you may find that it doesn't recognize drives larger than 500MB or that DOS doesn't recognize more than 2GB.... One problem at a time...








--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:
>
> First of all, I have now run into two more problems and I'm hoping that you have the time to answer them as much as you can:
>
> 1. This past Sunday (Christmas), I asked someone to take apart the GRiD 2270 laptop and I found the dead CMOS battery soldered to the motherboard. The battery can be found near the hard drive. You can see some photos of what the GRiD 2270 looks like in my photo album.
>
> It is a NiCAD CMOS and it reads the following:
>
> Varta (vertical)
> NiCd
> 6/V30H
> 7.2V
> 30mAh
> 14h3m
> 033
> +
>
> As far as I can tell, the brand of the NiCAD CMOS battery is believed to be Varta 6/V30H, a 7.2 volt, 30 mAh battery. Where can I find replacement parts for the dead CMOS battery?
>
> And because the NiCAD CMOS battery is soldered to the motherboard, how can it be replaced without destroying the motherboard?
>
>
> 2. The 130 MB Toshiba MK2124FC hard drive was recently replaced with a 1.2 GB Toshiba MK2720FC hard drive that was originally on the Toshiba Tecra 720CDT laptop which now has a 4.32 GB Toshiba MK4309MAT hard drive.
>
> The problem is that when I try to turn the GRiD 2270 laptop on and attempt to boot from a floppy, I get the following error:
>
> "press F1 to retry boot or touch screen with pen"
>
> And then pressing F1 to retry boot or using the pen to touch the screen results in this error message:
>
> "Invalid partition table"
>
> How can I get this fixed as well?
>
> I'm hoping that I can get the GRiD 2270 laptop saved from being thrown in the garbage, because it's literally not usable now.
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2361
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 23:17:44 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

First of all, the battery is 7.2 volts and I won't know if it will fit in the holes or not. The page that you linked to is the Varta 40 mAh type batteries. The battery is rated 30 mAh as pictured.

Secondly, how can the CMOS battery be unsoldered and replaced by the way?

I do have a MS-DOS boot disk and regardless of what floppy I use, the GRiD 2270 refuses to boot from the floppy. Furthermore, since the CMOS battery is dead, it can only boot from the hard drive.

And as for hard drives larger than 504 MB (~528 MB), I heard that there are ways to get around it including using EZDrive or Ontrack software. Because the BIOS cannot handle more than 1,024 cylinders, I would need to make it report as 589 cylinders, 64 heads and 63 sectors per track.

Yahoo! Message number: 2362
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 23:33:36 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Thanks so much for answering.

The CMOS battery is in the form of a capacitor and when that type of CMOS battery dies, the capacitor ends up bulging and bursting.

I will be looking up some information regarding the NiCD CMOS battery. And as for the Dallas RTC time chip, I will have to take a look at the motherboard again.

I will have someone take a picture of what the entire motherboard looks like.

Now, for the hard drive, the BIOS is from November 1993 and the laptop is not aware that it won't support hard drives larger than 504 MB (~528 MB) without doing some hacks and workarounds, including creating a small 100 MB boot partition, installing drive overlay software (such as Ontrack or EZDrive) and creating a extended partition that can be used for data.

Solutions to work around the 504 MB limit can be found here: http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/J.Steunebrink/bioslim.htm#504MB

Now, I have someone replace the CMOS battery first, put the original hard drive in and set the laptop to boot from floppy. If the laptop does boot with the settings stored, then I'll get the hard drive replaced again.

Yahoo! Message number: 2363
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 23:38:45 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

The GRiD 2270 does not even have the ability to boot from floppy using F1, F2 or DEL keys.

And since the CMOS battery is dead, all settings are lost. And if the hard drive is immediately replaced, the unit can't boot at all unless the original hard drive is put back inside.

Furthermore, if I wanted to get the 1.2 GB drive recognised, I would somehow have to use drive overlay software. Otherwise, I'm faced with a drive that can't be properly recognised larger than 504 MB and I would end up having to purchase a drive that is no bigger than 520 MB. :(

Yahoo! Message number: 2364
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:02:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

 >The page that you linked to is the Varta 40 mAh type batteries. The battery is rated 30 mAh as pictured.
 
"200/221, whatever it takes"  ;)  The quote is from a movie called Mr. Mom.  Don't worry if you don't get it.   But as long as the physical size and battery voltage are the same, more mAh is better.  The reating means that the battery will supply 30 (or 40) milli-Amperes for 1 hour before it goes dead.  Given the same conditions, a 40 mAh battery will last longer than a 30 mAh battery.
 
>Secondly, how can the CMOS battery be unsoldered and replaced by the way?
You need a soldering iron.  The board will probably have to be removed from the case.
 
>the GRiD 2270 refuses to boot from the floppy
Try this: Insert a DOS disk in to the Grid.  After you apply the power, and while the computer is attemping to boot, repeatedly press the 'f' key.  It's supposed to tell the Grid to boot from floopy.  I've had mixed results using that tecnique.
 
As Androgenoide said earlier, one problem at a time.  Let's see if it will boot from te floopy drive before we address hard drive issues.
Thanks and I hope that helps,
-Shawn


________________________________
 From: Rainbow <rainbow_utonium@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 6:17 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.




First of all, the battery is 7.2 volts and I won't know if it will fit in the holes or not. The page that you linked to is the Varta 40 mAh type batteries. The battery is rated 30 mAh as pictured.

Secondly, how can the CMOS battery be unsoldered and replaced by the way?

I do have a MS-DOS boot disk and regardless of what floppy I use, the GRiD 2270 refuses to boot from the floppy. Furthermore, since the CMOS battery is dead, it can only boot from the hard drive.

And as for hard drives larger than 504 MB (~528 MB), I heard that there are ways to get around it including using EZDrive or Ontrack software. Because the BIOS cannot handle more than 1,024 cylinders, I would need to make it report as 589 cylinders, 64 heads and 63 sectors per track.



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2365
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2012 01:42:45 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

OK... I've spent a little time digging around for information on the 2270 and, while I still know very little about it, I can point to a couple possible attacks.
 Literature says that, if the computer is in standby, you can change the battery without shutting it off.  That's probably what the NiCd is for, a stand-in for a supercap.  I have an older Itronix machine that doesn't appear to have a CMOS battery at all but uses the main battery to hold the settings -the 2270 may use the main battery (when present) to hold the settings and the little NiCd when it is not present and/or charged...(Pure speculation on my part.)
 Second, someone on Rob's Gridboard has had some success using a Toshiba 540MB drive but I don't yet see any evidence of anyone having used a larger drive.
 Third, if you can read the original drive at all (say, in another computer) it might be worthwhile to save some of the information from it.  In particular, if there is a folder called "SysUtilities" (or something like that) look to see if there's a file named CONFIG2270.EXE. (Or even CONF.EXE) You'll need that one to change the CMOS settings.   Personally, I think I'd save everything I could.   One of the selling points of the machine was its ability to be used as a stand alone tablet using handwriting recognition instead of a keyboard.   There's no way to tell if the pen utilities written for another laptop would work on the Grid.
Good luck.













--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:
>
> The GRiD 2270 does not even have the ability to boot from floppy using F1, F2 or DEL keys.
>
> And since the CMOS battery is dead, all settings are lost. And if the hard drive is immediately replaced, the unit can't boot at all unless the original hard drive is put back inside.
>
> Furthermore, if I wanted to get the 1.2 GB drive recognised, I would somehow have to use drive overlay software. Otherwise, I'm faced with a drive that can't be properly recognised larger than 504 MB and I would end up having to purchase a drive that is no bigger than 520 MB. :(
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2366
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2012 03:03:38 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Just ran into another curious bit of trivia...

When the boot order on a 2260 is set to boot from C first it won't even try to boot from A (regardless of whether you hit the F1, the E or whatever)... however, if you disconnect the C drive it will boot from the floppy.  If your floppy has the CONF file on it you can then run it to change the boot order so it will try A first.  Chances are they've done the same thing on the 2270.  Might be worth a try to see if it will boot from the floppy when you have the hard drive cable disconnected...   As to whether the conf file from a 15xx Grid will work on the 2270... unlikely but posssible...

Laptops are, generally, less standardized than desktops and when you get into the older ones all bets are off.  You pretty much have to be into solving puzzles if you're going to get anywhere.













--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:
>
> The GRiD 2270 does not even have the ability to boot from floppy using F1, F2 or DEL keys.
>
> And since the CMOS battery is dead, all settings are lost. And if the hard drive is immediately replaced, the unit can't boot at all unless the original hard drive is put back inside.
>
> Furthermore, if I wanted to get the 1.2 GB drive recognised, I would somehow have to use drive overlay software. Otherwise, I'm faced with a drive that can't be properly recognised larger than 504 MB and I would end up having to purchase a drive that is no bigger than 520 MB. :(
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2367
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2012 05:33:04 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

There's a fair amount of work involved in removing the motherboard to get to both sides of it but it's usually worth it.  In a few cases I have gotten away with clipping component leads and tacking a new one on to the existing wires but it's tricky and takes a delicate touch with the iron.
On the other hand, it's possible to damage a board simply by being inept with the soldering iron no matter how many precautions a person takes...It's a judgment call.










--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Rainbow,
> >Where can I find replacement parts for the dead CMOS battery?
>
> Is the battery similar to one found on this page? http://www.rfidbackup.com/Varta/Varta-40H.html
> If so, you could order it.  As long as it's 7.2V and it physically fits in the holes, it will work.
>  
> >And because the NiCAD CMOS battery is soldered to the motherboard, how can it be replaced without destroying the motherboard?
>
> It will have to be unsoldered and replaced.  Unsoldering the old battery and soldering in the new one will not destroy the motherboard.
>  
> >"Invalid partition table"
> >How can I get this fixed as well?
>  
> I'm not too familiar with the 2270.  But, from what you are saying, it looks like the 2270 "sees" the hard drive.  "Invalid partition table" indicated that the Grid saw the hard drive, and attempted to boot from it.  My guess is it can't deal with such a large drive.
> Here's an idea:  Do you have a MS-DOS disk?  If you do, boot from the floppy drive.  Then, format the hard drive.  Keep in mind, you won't get the full 1.2GB.  I don't know what the exact limitation is, but don't be suprised if you only get 504 MB.
> If you don't have a boot floopy disk, you can go to www.bootdisk.com and download one.  Keep in mind that the computer you do the download on has to have a floppy drive.  They are getting harder to find.
>  
> I hope that helps,
> -Shawn 
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Rainbow <rainbow_utonium@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 7:37 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.
>
> First of all, I have now run into two more problems and I'm hoping that you have the time to answer them as much as you can:
>
> 1. This past Sunday (Christmas), I asked someone to take apart the GRiD 2270 laptop and I found the dead CMOS battery soldered to the motherboard. The battery can be found near the hard drive. You can see some photos of what the GRiD 2270 looks like in my photo album.
>
> It is a NiCAD CMOS and it reads the following:
>
> Varta (vertical)
> NiCd
> 6/V30H
> 7.2V
> 30mAh
> 14h3m
> 033
> +
>
> As far as I can tell, the brand of the NiCAD CMOS battery is believed to be Varta 6/V30H, a 7.2 volt, 30 mAh battery. Where can I find replacement parts for the dead CMOS battery?
>
> And because the NiCAD CMOS battery is soldered to the motherboard, how can it be replaced without destroying the motherboard?
>
>
> 2. The 130 MB Toshiba MK2124FC hard drive was recently replaced with a 1.2 GB Toshiba MK2720FC hard drive that was originally on the Toshiba Tecra 720CDT laptop which now has a 4.32 GB Toshiba MK4309MAT hard drive.
>
> The problem is that when I try to turn the GRiD 2270 laptop on and attempt to boot from a floppy, I get the following error:
>
> "press F1 to retry boot or touch screen with pen"
>
> And then pressing F1 to retry boot or using the pen to touch the screen results in this error message:
>
> "Invalid partition table"
>
> How can I get this fixed as well?
>
> I'm hoping that I can get the GRiD 2270 laptop saved from being thrown in the garbage, because it's literally not usable now.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2368
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2012 06:17:34 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

I can verify that the NiCad is almost certainly meant for exactly what Androgenoide says it is meant for, because that is how the 1550 is set up. It uses a 7.4 volt Nicad battery (9V casing) as a temporary power source which will last about one to two minutes, giving you time to switch out batteries without having to have the computer hooked up to a power source, which makes it far more usable in the field. It makes perfect sense that they would do the same thing in the later computers including the 2270. I have no doubt that is what the Varta battery is for, which means that it is almost certainly NOT the CMOS battery, IMHO. Therefore, you need to find the real CMOS battery.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Androgenoide" <androgenoide@...> wrote:
>
> OK... I've spent a little time digging around for information on the 2270 and, while I still know very little about it, I can point to a couple possible attacks.
>  Literature says that, if the computer is in standby, you can change the battery without shutting it off.  That's probably what the NiCd is for, a stand-in for a supercap.  I have an older Itronix machine that doesn't appear to have a CMOS battery at all but uses the main battery to hold the settings -the 2270 may use the main battery (when present) to hold the settings and the little NiCd when it is not present and/or charged...(Pure speculation on my part.)
>  Second, someone on Rob's Gridboard has had some success using a Toshiba 540MB drive but I don't yet see any evidence of anyone having used a larger drive.
>  Third, if you can read the original drive at all (say, in another computer) it might be worthwhile to save some of the information from it.  In particular, if there is a folder called "SysUtilities" (or something like that) look to see if there's a file named CONFIG2270.EXE. (Or even CONF.EXE) You'll need that one to change the CMOS settings.   Personally, I think I'd save everything I could.   One of the selling points of the machine was its ability to be used as a stand alone tablet using handwriting recognition instead of a keyboard.   There's no way to tell if the pen utilities written for another laptop would work on the Grid.
> Good luck.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@> wrote:
> >
> > The GRiD 2270 does not even have the ability to boot from floppy using F1, F2 or DEL keys.
> >
> > And since the CMOS battery is dead, all settings are lost. And if the hard drive is immediately replaced, the unit can't boot at all unless the original hard drive is put back inside.
> >
> > Furthermore, if I wanted to get the 1.2 GB drive recognised, I would somehow have to use drive overlay software. Otherwise, I'm faced with a drive that can't be properly recognised larger than 504 MB and I would end up having to purchase a drive that is no bigger than 520 MB. :(
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2369
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 13:17:38 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

You're going to need a techie to unsolder and resolder the battery if you're 
not practiced in the art.  (And, yes, it is at least partially an art, 
partially a science.)  As for the mAh capacity, 40 is better than 30, 
because, even though it will take slightly longer to charge, it will keep 
its charge longer.  The thing about current (amperage) is that a device will 
only use what it needs of the the current supplied.  It's why you can run a 
60 watt bulb that takes only half an amp on a 20-amp circuit.  The bulb is 
going to only use a half an amp, no matter how much current is available 
over that, provided that the voltage remains constant.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 6:17 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.


>
>
>
> First of all, the battery is 7.2 volts and I won't know if it will fit in 
> the holes or not. The page that you linked to is the Varta 40 mAh type 
> batteries. The battery is rated 30 mAh as pictured.
>
> Secondly, how can the CMOS battery be unsoldered and replaced by the way?
>
> I do have a MS-DOS boot disk and regardless of what floppy I use, the GRiD 
> 2270 refuses to boot from the floppy. Furthermore, since the CMOS battery 
> is dead, it can only boot from the hard drive.
>
> And as for hard drives larger than 504 MB (~528 MB), I heard that there 
> are ways to get around it including using EZDrive or Ontrack software. 
> Because the BIOS cannot handle more than 1,024 cylinders, I would need to 
> make it report as 589 cylinders, 64 heads and 63 sectors per track.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2371
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2012 21:08:15 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Of course, the 1550 also has a lithium battery to back up the CMOS. That's the usual way to do things and has been for a long time but I have two laptops in my possession that do not do it that way so I would be unwilling to guarantee that the 2270 has a real lithium battery.  Look for it... it should be there... but it might not...













--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> I can verify that the NiCad is almost certainly meant for exactly what Androgenoide says it is meant for, because that is how the 1550 is set up. It uses a 7.4 volt Nicad battery (9V casing) as a temporary power source which will last about one to two minutes, giving you time to switch out batteries without having to have the computer hooked up to a power source, which makes it far more usable in the field. It makes perfect sense that they would do the same thing in the later computers including the 2270. I have no doubt that is what the Varta battery is for, which means that it is almost certainly NOT the CMOS battery, IMHO. Therefore, you need to find the real CMOS battery.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Androgenoide" <androgenoide@> wrote:
> >
> > OK... I've spent a little time digging around for information on the 2270 and, while I still know very little about it, I can point to a couple possible attacks.
> >  Literature says that, if the computer is in standby, you can change the battery without shutting it off.  That's probably what the NiCd is for, a stand-in for a supercap.  I have an older Itronix machine that doesn't appear to have a CMOS battery at all but uses the main battery to hold the settings -the 2270 may use the main battery (when present) to hold the settings and the little NiCd when it is not present and/or charged...(Pure speculation on my part.)
> >  Second, someone on Rob's Gridboard has had some success using a Toshiba 540MB drive but I don't yet see any evidence of anyone having used a larger drive.
> >  Third, if you can read the original drive at all (say, in another computer) it might be worthwhile to save some of the information from it.  In particular, if there is a folder called "SysUtilities" (or something like that) look to see if there's a file named CONFIG2270.EXE. (Or even CONF.EXE) You'll need that one to change the CMOS settings.   Personally, I think I'd save everything I could.   One of the selling points of the machine was its ability to be used as a stand alone tablet using handwriting recognition instead of a keyboard.   There's no way to tell if the pen utilities written for another laptop would work on the Grid.
> > Good luck.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@> wrote:
> > >
> > > The GRiD 2270 does not even have the ability to boot from floppy using F1, F2 or DEL keys.
> > >
> > > And since the CMOS battery is dead, all settings are lost. And if the hard drive is immediately replaced, the unit can't boot at all unless the original hard drive is put back inside.
> > >
> > > Furthermore, if I wanted to get the 1.2 GB drive recognised, I would somehow have to use drive overlay software. Otherwise, I'm faced with a drive that can't be properly recognised larger than 504 MB and I would end up having to purchase a drive that is no bigger than 520 MB. :(
> > >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2372
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2012 23:29:04 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

But I can guarantee it. I for one have worked on the 1550's and can verify they do have a Tadiran Lithium Ion battery which serves as the CMOS battery, the same one you see in the other 1500 series computers. I have replaced them to solve the CMOS problems in teh same way as on any other 1500 series computer. I also have a 1550SX owners manual that tells me the NiCad battery is solely for maintaining the laptop with power while the battery packs are changed out, and has nothing to do with maintaining CMOS itself during the time the computer is powered down.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Androgenoide" <androgenoide@...> wrote:
>
> Of course, the 1550 also has a lithium battery to back up the CMOS. That's the usual way to do things and has been for a long time but I have two laptops in my possession that do not do it that way so I would be unwilling to guarantee that the 2270 has a real lithium battery.  Look for it... it should be there... but it might not...

Yahoo! Message number: 2373
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 02:42:58 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Yes, I've replaced the lithium battery (and the NiCd) on my 1550sx as well.  I haven't seen the owner's manual for it but it's nice to know why it has the second battery.

I was just commenting that there have been laptops that used other methods... The AST's use of a NiCd was widely seen as a design flaw at the time but people bought them nevertheless.  The one I have sitting on the shelf is pretty much useless at the moment... needs a new a new NiCd and, probably a HDD as well... The curious case, I think, is the early version of the XC6250 that seems to have only a couple supercaps to supplement the main battery.  Mine has had a dead battery for years and it pretty much needs to go through setup every time it powers up... (and sometimes loses track of its com ports even then).   Normal laptops, though, do have lithium batteries and exceptions are rare.











--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>
> But I can guarantee it. I for one have worked on the 1550's and can verify they do have a Tadiran Lithium Ion battery which serves as the CMOS battery, the same one you see in the other 1500 series computers. I have replaced them to solve the CMOS problems in teh same way as on any other 1500 series computer. I also have a 1550SX owners manual that tells me the NiCad battery is solely for maintaining the laptop with power while the battery packs are changed out, and has nothing to do with maintaining CMOS itself during the time the computer is powered down.
>
> Phil
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Androgenoide" <androgenoide@> wrote:
> >
> > Of course, the 1550 also has a lithium battery to back up the CMOS. That's the usual way to do things and has been for a long time but I have two laptops in my possession that do not do it that way so I would be unwilling to guarantee that the 2270 has a real lithium battery.  Look for it... it should be there... but it might not...
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2374
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 11:32:04 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

I had a '386 motherboard (desktop, though) that had a "Michelin Man" shaped 
nicad battery soldered to it.  There was a header there for an "external" 
battery, too, with two of the pins jumpered together.  If the NiCd battery 
failed, you could pull the jumper, which would disconnect the battery from 
the CMOS, install the external battery, and keep on truckin'.  It wouldn't 
surprise me to see such a battery in a laptop, either, but 7.2 or 7.4V is a 
little high for CMOS.  I did have a Dell desktop at one time that used four 
AA alkaline batteries for CMOS, though.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Androgenoide" <androgenoide@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 4:05 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.


> Of course, the 1550 also has a lithium battery to back up the CMOS. 
> That's the usual way to do things and has been for a long time but I have 
> two laptops in my possession that do not do it that way so I would be 
> unwilling to guarantee that it has a real lithium battery.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "jeriddian" <Jeriddian@...> wrote:
>>
>> I can verify that the NiCad is almost certainly meant for exactly what 
>> Androgenoide says it is meant for, because that is how the 1550 is set 
>> up. It uses a 7.4 volt Nicad battery (9V casing) as a temporary power 
>> source which will last about one to two minutes, giving you time to 
>> switch out batteries without having to have the computer hooked up to a 
>> power source, which makes it far more usable in the field. It makes 
>> perfect sense that they would do the same thing in the later computers 
>> including the 2270. I have no doubt that is what the Varta battery is 
>> for, which means that it is almost certainly NOT the CMOS battery, IMHO. 
>> Therefore, you need to find the real CMOS battery.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Androgenoide" <androgenoide@> 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > OK... I've spent a little time digging around for information on the 
>> > 2270 and, while I still know very little about it, I can point to a 
>> > couple possible attacks.
>> >  Literature says that, if the computer is in standby, you can change 
>> > the battery without shutting it off.  That's probably what the NiCd is 
>> > for, a stand-in for a supercap.  I have an older Itronix machine that 
>> > doesn't appear to have a CMOS battery at all but uses the main battery 
>> > to hold the settings -the 2270 may use the main battery (when present) 
>> > to hold the settings and the little NiCd when it is not present and/or 
>> > charged...(Pure speculation on my part.)
>> >  Second, someone on Rob's Gridboard has had some success using a 
>> > Toshiba 540MB drive but I don't yet see any evidence of anyone having 
>> > used a larger drive.
>> >  Third, if you can read the original drive at all (say, in another 
>> > computer) it might be worthwhile to save some of the information from 
>> > it.  In particular, if there is a folder called "SysUtilities" (or 
>> > something like that) look to see if there's a file named 
>> > CONFIG2270.EXE. (Or even CONF.EXE) You'll need that one to change the 
>> > CMOS settings.   Personally, I think I'd save everything I could.   One 
>> > of the selling points of the machine was its ability to be used as a 
>> > stand alone tablet using handwriting recognition instead of a keyboard. 
>> > There's no way to tell if the pen utilities written for another laptop 
>> > would work on the Grid.
>> > Good luck.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@> 
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > The GRiD 2270 does not even have the ability to boot from floppy 
>> > > using F1, F2 or DEL keys.
>> > >
>> > > And since the CMOS battery is dead, all settings are lost. And if the 
>> > > hard drive is immediately replaced, the unit can't boot at all unless 
>> > > the original hard drive is put back inside.
>> > >
>> > > Furthermore, if I wanted to get the 1.2 GB drive recognised, I would 
>> > > somehow have to use drive overlay software. Otherwise, I'm faced with 
>> > > a drive that can't be properly recognised larger than 504 MB and I 
>> > > would end up having to purchase a drive that is no bigger than 520 
>> > > MB. :(
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2375
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 21:48:45 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Thanks so much for the help!

> The battery is rated 30 mAh as pictured.

Thanks for the help! I deeply appreciate it!
 
> "200/221, whatever it takes"  ;)  The quote is from a movie called Mr. Mom.  Don't worry if you don't get it.   But as long as the physical size and battery voltage are the same, more mAh is better.  The reating means that the battery will supply 30 (or 40) milli-Amperes for 1 hour before it goes dead.  Given the same conditions, a 40 mAh battery will last longer than a 30 mAh battery.

Thanks again, I will look up on online to see if I can find a 7.2 volt, 40 mAh battery that will work with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

> You need a soldering iron.  The board will probably have to be removed from the case.

Thank you so much for the help...I will need to have someone get a soldering iron to remove the dead NiCAD CMOS battery and get a new one.

I did manage to revive the GRiD 2270 by pressing the F key on the keyboard to boot from the floppy diskette and I managed to setup the partition using FDISK.

However, when I managed to run FDISK, the hard drive with a capacity of 1,159 MB is recognised as only 152 MB.

The BIOS isn't able to handle hard disks larger than 504 MB. And since the drive is not properly able to recognise hard disks over 504 MB, as a example, the 540 MB hard drive will end up being recognised as a drive with a very small capacity, hence in a factor of 504 MB, the drive capacity will wrap around zero when it exceeds that limit. :(

Are there any freeware utilities (hacks and workarounds) that will change the cylinder-head-sector count to 589/64/63 instead of having a hard drive that is not properly able to recongise beyond the 1,024th cylinder?

Yahoo! Message number: 2376
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 22:50:32 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

I don't know if I can try that, but I'll see if I can get it to work. Because, right now...the computer will only function for 17 minutes and that's pretty much it. I will work something out as much as I can to get the GRiD 2270 nearly functional.

Secondly, if someone tried to stick a 540 MB Toshiba hard drive in a GRiD laptop, I can concur that the BIOS would only recognise it as a 10.98 MB drive with the BIOS being unable to access the rest of the drive. When the 1.2 GB hard drive was recently inserted, only the first 152 MB was recgonised. :(

If someone had any success with sticking a 540 MB or a 810 MB hard drive in a GRiD laptop, how would they do that?

Thirdly, I even tried use the CONF2270.EXE utility to try to change the settings and there was no easy way to change the cylinder, head and sector count. The pen utilities were only written for the GRiD 2270.

Yahoo! Message number: 2377
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 23:17:24 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

You know, being inept with the soldering iron is not something that anyone wants, but with a NiCAD battery soldered to a motherboard, this may be a difficult task to take.

Take the HighScreen BlueNote notebook computer from early 1993 for example (http://www.science.uva.nl/museum/bluenote.php). The machine used a 3.6 volt NiCAD battery for keeping the CMOS battery alive and NiCAD batteries were infamous for their capacity of ruining electronics when improperly attended or in time replaced. Batteries in old laptops like the one that I pointed out may not be replaced for years and years unless its too late to fix it.

Soldering a battery onto a motherboard in a notebook computer is hardly replaceable without having to skirt attempts to destroy it in the first place. Chemicals from the capacitor-shaped battery ended up spreading over a large area, further breaking motherboard connections and causing short circuits. In the end, due to a soldered dead CMOS battery, chemicals spreading throughout the motherboard and poor design decisions, this lead to a totally unusable machine.

Yahoo! Message number: 2378
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 23:24:00 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

This is not so much a suggestion as an observation...
If the BIOS recognizes even a little bit of the drive, the option should exist of installing an OS that doesn't use the BIOS to access the drive... Win2K and WinXP don't care about the BIOS but they demand a lot more memory and speed than you could cram into an old Grid. There was a version of BSD, though, that ran on a 386 with very little RAM...  I imagine it would boot from a 100MB partition just fine and then go on to recognize the full drive...Of course, you'd be on your own trying to write code for the pen drivers and such... Not very practical.

Of course, when you're fooling the BIOS about the drive geometry you can outfox yourself as well.  The smaller drive the BIOS sees would not necessarily be visible to the OS and it might be overwritten... Friend of mine was saying that he would give his BIOS a false description of the drive and the BIOS would use the drive as if it were a smaller one, no problem but, if the CMOS were erased (to get around a CMOS password, for example), and the drive were accessed later using the true CHS values it would appear to be unformatted... a curious kind of low-tech encryption...















--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I don't know if I can try that, but I'll see if I can get it to work. Because, right now...the computer will only function for 17 minutes and that's pretty much it. I will work something out as much as I can to get the GRiD 2270 nearly functional.
>
> Secondly, if someone tried to stick a 540 MB Toshiba hard drive in a GRiD laptop, I can concur that the BIOS would only recognise it as a 10.98 MB drive with the BIOS being unable to access the rest of the drive. When the 1.2 GB hard drive was recently inserted, only the first 152 MB was recgonised. :(
>
> If someone had any success with sticking a 540 MB or a 810 MB hard drive in a GRiD laptop, how would they do that?
>
> Thirdly, I even tried use the CONF2270.EXE utility to try to change the settings and there was no easy way to change the cylinder, head and sector count. The pen utilities were only written for the GRiD 2270.
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2379
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 23:31:29 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

The dead CMOS battery is making the 2270 boot from the hard drive when the partition isn't even set up.

>From what I learned, the best way to boot from the floppy drive when the BIOS has no CMOS setup is to press the F key.

When I repeatedly hit the F key while the tablet PC is being set up, I get the following error message that I can ignore - "Keyboard stuck key failure" and the tablet PC will be able to boot from the floppy diskette.

From there, I can set up the partition on the hard disk using FDISK. Now when I try to set up the 1.2 GB Toshiba MK2720FC hard disk, the BIOS only recognises it as a 152 MB partition.

Using the CONF2270.EXE utility was no help, because I'm starting to realise that BIOSes made before August 1994 do not support hard disks larger than 504 MB (~528 MB) without having to work around this limit.

Replacing the dead CMOS battery and dead NiCAD batteries in the battery pack is something that I must consider, before trying to setup the hard drive.

Yahoo! Message number: 2380
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 23:50:49 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Early versions of BSD ran with just 4 MB of memory. Windows 3.x (excluding Windows for Workgroups) requires only 1 MB of memory while DOS can use far less memory than Windows.

I kinda imagine that OS/2 and Linux are capable of recognising hard drive without relying on the BIOS...that is if the drive is formatted as a HPFS partition when installing OS/2...and it's possible to install and run OS/2 2.1 or even OS/2 Warp 3 on the GRiD 2270.

As for writing code for the pen drivers under Linux, it would simply be too much work and I just don't have the time to do it.

Unfortunately, the GRiD 2270 doesn't even have a CMOS setup on the motherboard and using CONF2270.EXE utility serves no purpose.

The Toshiba MK2720FC hard drive has 2,358 cylinders, 16 heads and 63 sectors which totals 1.13 GB. However, the BIOS can't even recongise drives beyond the 1,024 cylinder barrier.

When I want to give a false description of a drive with 589 cylinders, 64 heads and 63 sectors, it would work, but how would I finding ways how to do it.

Yahoo! Message number: 2381
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 23:54:41 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Fair enough, I'm gonna look up online for a 7.2 volt NiCAD battery rated at 40 mAh capacity and then get the dying NiCAD batteries in the battery pack replaced.

Believe me, this is going to be a lot of work for a technician to unsolder and resolder the batteries.

I'm gonna rile up some plans on how this will be done. :)

Yahoo! Message number: 2382
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 00:04:09 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Good for you!

I tried to find a 7.2v NiCd battery rated at 40 mAh and they're most likely designed for other laptops, meaning that there might not be any replacement parts available.

I honestly don't think that a external battery would even work with GRiD 2270, but I could be wrong here.

Which of the 7.2v, 40 mAh NiCD batteries could work with the GRiD 2270? Just curious.

Yahoo! Message number: 2383
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 01:12:07 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Large hard drive on the GRiD 2270

Okay, I managed to use a utility called EZDrive version 9 from Western Digital and it was smart enough to bypass the 504 MB limit and recongise the full 1.2 GB capacity, infact the drive is even recognised as well over 1.35 GB. Wow!

However, I couldn't use the pentop PC too much longer, because of a dead battery pack. I'm gonna ask someone to get the battery pack disassembled as soon as possible.

Right now, the pentop PC won't turn on properly until I unplug it for 20 minutes or so. :(

Yahoo! Message number: 2384
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 03:16:01 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Rainbow,

The BIOS will only recoginze a limit of 1024 cylinders and 16 heads. It won't recognize more than that. It usually won't strictly count the sectors and some you can use up to 63. I don't believe there are any hacks or workarounds right now. The only way to get past this is to get a differente BIOS. We don't have that now. We are hoping one day to get someone to engineer the BIOS to put in an enhanced INT 13h call or something else that will fix this problem. Once we do get a different BIOS, then the limit will be 2 Gb, due to hardware limitations of the computer itself.

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:
> Are there any freeware utilities (hacks and workarounds) that will change the cylinder-head-sector count to 589/64/63 instead of having a hard drive that is not properly able to recongise beyond the 1,024th cylinder?
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2385
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 03:20:28 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Rainbow,

We've never tried sticking a bigger drive than 504 MB, exactly for the reason you have listed. We haven't tried sticking a Non-Conner drive in either. The process would be simply to substitute the HDD and then burn two new BIOS chips on EPROMS in which the HDD tables are altered so that the computer will recognize the new HDD. I would recommend staying within the limits of the computer and use a Conner drive less than 504 MB.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:
> Secondly, if someone tried to stick a 540 MB Toshiba hard drive in a GRiD laptop, I can concur that the BIOS would only recognise it as a 10.98 MB drive with the BIOS being unable to access the rest of the drive. When the 1.2 GB hard drive was recently inserted, only the first 152 MB was recgonised. :(
>
> If someone had any success with sticking a 540 MB or a 810 MB hard drive in a GRiD laptop, how would they do that?

Yahoo! Message number: 2386
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 03:25:31 -0000
From: "jeriddian"
Subject: Re: Large hard drive on the GRiD 2270

Okay,

Guess I was wrong about that. Nice tip about the EZDrive software. I'm going to have to try and get that thing and use it myself.

Phil

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Okay, I managed to use a utility called EZDrive version 9 from Western Digital and it was smart enough to bypass the 504 MB limit and recongise the full 1.2 GB capacity, infact the drive is even recognised as well over 1.35 GB. Wow!
>
> However, I couldn't use the pentop PC too much longer, because of a dead battery pack. I'm gonna ask someone to get the battery pack disassembled as soon as possible.
>
> Right now, the pentop PC won't turn on properly until I unplug it for 20 minutes or so. :(
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2387
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 05:12:15 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Here's what I did to get around it.

I used a utility called EZ-DRIVE v9.06W to partition and format the Toshiba MK2720FC hard drive and instead of reading 2,316 cylinders, 16 heads and 63 sectors. The hard drive controlled by EZ-BIOS correctly recgonised the drive as 1.35 GB (instead of 160 MB) with 658 cylinders, 64 heads and 63 sectors per track.

The biggest drawbacks is that if I want to boot from the A drive, I lose access to the EZ-DRIVE partitioned C drive. If I wanted to overwrite the boot sector, I will end up having to set the hard drive up again using EZ-DRIVE.

I'll upload a screenshot soon to see what I mean. :)

Yahoo! Message number: 2388
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 05:18:17 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

I don't use Conner hard drives of 504 MB or smaller. I used the Toshiba brand. Refer to my comment on how I got around the 504 MB limit.

If you have a hard disk larger than 504 MB and if the BIOS is dated July 1994 or earlier, you can't use FDISK, you have to use drive overlay utilities such as EZ-DRIVE or Ontrack. :)

Yahoo! Message number: 2389
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 05:31:20 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Large hard drive on the GRiD 2270

Fair enough.

After I partitioned the whole drive, I managed to find a way to reinstall MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.1 with Pen Extensions for now, I'll consider installing more stuff later on.

With a 12 MB swapfile and a hard drive reporting as 1.26 GB as opposed to 1.13 GB on the Tecra 720CDT laptop, the GRiD 2270 laptop not only gained 10x more disk space, but gained a almost an additional 136 MB of disk space from the other laptop!

The EZ-DRIVE utility is a part of the Fast Disk Access 32-bit drivers and you can download it here: http://www.mdgx.com/files/32FBDA.ZIP

With that utility, you can partition a hard disk on your old GRiD laptop, but be warned that MS-DOS and Windows 3.x will only accept hard disk drives up to 8,032 MB total (1,024 cylinders, 255 heads, 63 sectors) with up to three 2 GB and one 1.84 GB logical drive partitions.

Yahoo! Message number: 2391
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 15:25:32 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

OS/2, definitely.  I had a situation with some 1995 BIOS code that would 
recognize the full drive capacity, but wouldn't let me access it all until I 
put a bootable OS/2 logical drive within the BIOS limit, and when it booted, 
it saw the whole drive.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 6:50 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.


> Early versions of BSD ran with just 4 MB of memory. Windows 3.x (excluding 
> Windows for Workgroups) requires only 1 MB of memory while DOS can use far 
> less memory than Windows.
>
> I kinda imagine that OS/2 and Linux are capable of recognising hard drive 
> without relying on the BIOS...that is if the drive is formatted as a HPFS 
> partition when installing OS/2...and it's possible to install and run OS/2 
> 2.1 or even OS/2 Warp 3 on the GRiD 2270.
>
> As for writing code for the pen drivers under Linux, it would simply be 
> too much work and I just don't have the time to do it.
>
> Unfortunately, the GRiD 2270 doesn't even have a CMOS setup on the 
> motherboard and using CONF2270.EXE utility serves no purpose.
>
> The Toshiba MK2720FC hard drive has 2,358 cylinders, 16 heads and 63 
> sectors which totals 1.13 GB. However, the BIOS can't even recongise 
> drives beyond the 1,024 cylinder barrier.
>
> When I want to give a false description of a drive with 589 cylinders, 64 
> heads and 63 sectors, it would work, but how would I finding ways how to 
> do it.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2392
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 23:16:21 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

I agree. The only problem is that the 2270 does not even have a CD-ROM, only a external floppy drive...so in that case, I would have to install OS/2 2.1 and format the drive as HPFS.

Yahoo! Message number: 2393
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 19:03:26 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

True.  Well, actually, you could've got Warp 3.0 in floppies, but it 
would've taken literally a couple dozen of them.  :-)  I have Warp 3.0 "Red 
Spine" here, both in floppy disk form and on CD.  At least, I think I do. 
It's buried somewhere, though.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 6:16 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.


>I agree. The only problem is that the 2270 does not even have a CD-ROM, 
>only a external floppy drive...so in that case, I would have to install 
>OS/2 2.1 and format the drive as HPFS.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2394
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 01:12:44 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

I only have the Red Spine version of OS/2 Warp 3 and if I wanted to put it on the GRiD 2270, I would have to find a way to make XDF formatted floppies to install it in.

Yahoo! Message number: 2395
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 12:46:11 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

If I'm not badly mistaken, there are instructions either on the CD or in the 
documentation on how to make your own floppies.  But, it's been years since 
I've seriously looked at it.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 8:12 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.


>I only have the Red Spine version of OS/2 Warp 3 and if I wanted to put it 
>on the GRiD 2270, I would have to find a way to make XDF formatted floppies 
>to install it in.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2396
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 19:25:50 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

I see what you mean, but in order to recongise the floppies as XDF, I would need to do that on a Windows 9x/Me PC.

Yahoo! Message number: 2397
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 19:30:15 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

By the way, the picture of the Varta CMOS battery can be found in the Photos section under GRiD 2270.

I read your e-mail the other day and I don't think that it showed up here. :(

Yahoo! Message number: 2398
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 16:13:14 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

I don't think so.  I seem to recall that it was duable under MS-DOS 6.22. 
I'm sure that FreeDOS would work just as well, as far as that goes.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 2:25 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.


>I see what you mean, but in order to recongise the floppies as XDF, I would 
>need to do that on a Windows 9x/Me PC.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2399
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 06:30:33 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

And just FYI, DOS 7.1 is now available as a freebie.  (It's similar to the one underlying Win9X and does recognize large drives)








--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>
> I don't think so.  I seem to recall that it was duable under MS-DOS 6.22.
> I'm sure that FreeDOS would work just as well, as far as that goes.
>
> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...>
> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 2:25 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.
>
>
> >I see what you mean, but in order to recongise the floppies as XDF, I would
> >need to do that on a Windows 9x/Me PC.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2400
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 09:59:12 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

I'm wondering if MS-DOS 7.1 (Windows 95B/C and Windows 98/SE) will be able to bypass the 504 MB hard disk barrier where as MS-DOS 6.22 can't.

EZ-Drive reports the drive as 1,296 MB in capacity where as MS-DOS 7.1 recognises it as 1,158 MB. How odd.

Yahoo! Message number: 2401
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:52:25 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Just for grins, where do I get it?  The last time I went looking for it, it 
turned out to be a hack.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Androgenoide" <androgenoide@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 1:30 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.


> And just FYI, DOS 7.1 is now available as a freebie.  (It's similar to the 
> one underlying Win9X and does recognize large drives)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>>
>> I don't think so.  I seem to recall that it was duable under MS-DOS 6.22.
>> I'm sure that FreeDOS would work just as well, as far as that goes.
>>
>> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...>
>> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 2:25 PM
>> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.
>>
>>
>> >I see what you mean, but in order to recongise the floppies as XDF, I 
>> >would
>> >need to do that on a Windows 9x/Me PC.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2402
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 23:01:21 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

What are you referring to of where you want to get something, I'm a bit confused here. :(

Yahoo! Message number: 2403
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 00:24:08 +0100
From: Manuel
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.
text/plain; charset=windows-1252

If you're talking about DOS 7.1 I think this is what you're looking for:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040201222801/http://newdos.yginfo.net/msdos71/index.htm#msbd

?

regards
Manuel

Am 12.01.2012 um 00:01 schrieb Rainbow:

> What are you referring to of where you want to get something, I'm a bit confused here. :(
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2404
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 23:30:17 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

oops...  somehow I had this crazy idea that MS had released it free to the world.  No, not exactly.   I think it might be Win98 DOS with a new splash screen.  I've got an ISO file of the install CD here somewhere...  I seem to recall that it was about 15MB, maybe too big for most email (or maybe that's changed since I last tried?).  Seemed to run OK and had Volkov Commander included.  Let me get back to you on that...










--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>
> Just for grins, where do I get it?  The last time I went looking for it, it
> turned out to be a hack.
>
> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Androgenoide" <androgenoide@...>
> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 1:30 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.
>
>
> > And just FYI, DOS 7.1 is now available as a freebie.  (It's similar to the
> > one underlying Win9X and does recognize large drives)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@> wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't think so.  I seem to recall that it was duable under MS-DOS 6.22.
> >> I'm sure that FreeDOS would work just as well, as far as that goes.
> >>
> >> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> >> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@>
> >> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 2:25 PM
> >> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.
> >>
> >>
> >> >I see what you mean, but in order to recongise the floppies as XDF, I
> >> >would
> >> >need to do that on a Windows 9x/Me PC.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2405
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 13:11:37 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Thanks. The link that you pointed out is a hack of Windows 98 command prompt in MS-DOS mode.

Yahoo! Message number: 2406
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 13:13:02 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

MS-DOS 7.1 is a part of Windows 95 OSR 2 and Windows 98. The original version had no boot screen at all.

Yahoo! Message number: 2407
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 11:43:05 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

MS-DOS 7.1.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 6:01 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.


> What are you referring to of where you want to get something, I'm a bit 
> confused here. :(
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2408
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 11:54:27 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.
text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Yep!  That's the critter!  And, thanks.  I just raided the guy's stash.  :-)

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message -----
From: Manuel
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.




If you're talking about DOS 7.1 I think this is what you're looking for:


http://web.archive.org/web/20040201222801/http://newdos.yginfo.net/msdos71/index.htm#msbd


?


regards
Manuel


Am 12.01.2012 um 00:01 schrieb Rainbow:



  What are you referring to of where you want to get something, I'm a bit confused here. :(

Yahoo! Message number: 2409
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 11:56:46 -0500
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

Thanks, but I went ahead and hit the website, and Web Of Trust didn't flag 
it as having a bad rep.  It doesn't know everything, of course, but it 
usually flags pirate sites if I stumble into them.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Androgenoide" <androgenoide@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 6:30 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.


> oops...  somehow I had this crazy idea that MS had released it free to the 
> world.  No, not exactly.   I think it might be Win98 DOS with a new splash 
> screen.  I've got an ISO file of the install CD here somewhere...  I seem 
> to recall that it was about 15MB, maybe too big for most email (or maybe 
> that's changed since I last tried?).  Seemed to run OK and had Volkov 
> Commander included.  Let me get back to you on that...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>>
>> Just for grins, where do I get it?  The last time I went looking for it, 
>> it
>> turned out to be a hack.
>>
>> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Androgenoide" <androgenoide@...>
>> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 1:30 AM
>> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.
>>
>>
>> > And just FYI, DOS 7.1 is now available as a freebie.  (It's similar to 
>> > the
>> > one underlying Win9X and does recognize large drives)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I don't think so.  I seem to recall that it was duable under MS-DOS 
>> >> 6.22.
>> >> I'm sure that FreeDOS would work just as well, as far as that goes.
>> >>
>> >> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
>> >> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> From: "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@>
>> >> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
>> >> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 2:25 PM
>> >> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >I see what you mean, but in order to recongise the floppies as XDF, I
>> >> >would
>> >> >need to do that on a Windows 9x/Me PC.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2410
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 01:56:49 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.

I see now. ^_^

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Rutherford" <n8euj@...> wrote:
>
> MS-DOS 7.1.
>
> -- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
> "She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...>
> To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 6:01 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: More problems with the GRiD 2270 laptop.
>
>
> > What are you referring to of where you want to get something, I'm a bit
> > confused here. :(
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2411
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 02:23:40 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Replacing pen batteries.

Okay. The batteries in the pen stopped working recently. I'm currently gonna need to find a way to get the dead pen batteries on the GRiD 2270 replaced.

Page 2-3 in the GRiD 2270 manual states that the following replacement batteries may be used with the pen:

1. Eveready Battery Company Inc., E13E or 393
2. Rayovac Corp., RN13 or RW48
3. Duracell Corp., MS13

The printing on the battery door reads:

001010-00B
LU5032HP

And the printing on the front of the dead pen battery reads:

AC5
- BUTTON CELL +

I did a search for these products via Google and eBay and yielded no results. So, I have a couple of questions to answer:

1. If there are replacement parts available, where can I find them?

2. If there are no replacement pen batteries available, how can it get recharged?

Thank you for your time. :)

Yahoo! Message number: 2412
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 18:30:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Replacing pen batteries.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I believe that should be an AG5 (or 393) battery and it can be found here: http://www.batterymart.com/p-393-silver-oxide-button-cell-battery.html
 
You can also get it at Radio Shack: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=10999782
 
I hope that helps,
-Shawn


________________________________
From: Rainbow <rainbow_utonium@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 9:23 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Replacing pen batteries.

Okay. The batteries in the pen stopped working recently. I'm currently gonna need to find a way to get the dead pen batteries on the GRiD 2270 replaced.

Page 2-3 in the GRiD 2270 manual states that the following replacement batteries may be used with the pen:

1. Eveready Battery Company Inc., E13E or 393
2. Rayovac Corp., RN13 or RW48
3. Duracell Corp., MS13

The printing on the battery door reads:

001010-00B
LU5032HP

And the printing on the front of the dead pen battery reads:

AC5
- BUTTON CELL +

I did a search for these products via Google and eBay and yielded no results. So, I have a couple of questions to answer:

1. If there are replacement parts available, where can I find them?

2. If there are no replacement pen batteries available, how can it get recharged?

Thank you for your time. :)



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2413
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 03:45:36 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Replacing pen batteries.

Thanks for the help! These batteries cost no more than around $5 so that it shouldn't be too hard to replace it.

I'll explain with my dad or someone else to consider replacing the AG5 lithium button cell batteries. These type of batteries are designed to last up to approximately three months months. :)

When I first got the tablet PC, the bateries inside the pen lasted more than a year.

Yahoo! Message number: 2414
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 23:37:51 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Serial port mice question...

I recently purchased a Radio Shack 2-button serial mouse from eBay for $20 and in Page 2-30 of the GRiD 2270 manual, it has a serial connector and a monitor connector to connect an external VGA monitor in the rear panel.

Will a 9-pin serial port mouse work with the GRiD 2270?

Just curious, because I already blew $57 online and I'm not going to spend anymore money online and I'm considering selling a couple of stuff that are no longer in use on eBay soon.

Yahoo! Message number: 2415
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 16:24:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port mice question...
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

The short answer to your questions is: yes-as long as there is a driver for it.
The question really should be: Does my operating system (MS-DOS, Windows, Linux or whatever) support a serial mouse.  It should run OK.  I have a non-Grid 386SX and I can run Windows 3.11 with a serial mouse.
It *should* be supported.
Of course, YMMV (your milage may vary).
-Shawn


________________________________
 From: Rainbow <rainbow_utonium@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 6:37 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Serial port mice question...

I recently purchased a Radio Shack 2-button serial mouse from eBay for $20 and in Page 2-30 of the GRiD 2270 manual, it has a serial connector and a monitor connector to connect an external VGA monitor in the rear panel.

Will a 9-pin serial port mouse work with the GRiD 2270?

Just curious, because I already blew $57 online and I'm not going to spend anymore money online and I'm considering selling a couple of stuff that are no longer in use on eBay soon.



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2416
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 01:42:11 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Serial port mice question...

I agree. The serial mouse should work with the GRiD 2270. The model number of the serial mouse is 260-0389, easy enough to remember. The Radio Shack serial mouse will work on MS-DOS 5.0, Windows 3.1 and later, but I cannot find any drivers for the Radio Shack serial mouse as I tried to search it on Google.

If I cannot find any drivers for the serial mouse, where can I get them?

(By the way, I tried to take pictures of the 2270 again, but the battery died out on me and it needs to be recharged.)

Yahoo! Message number: 2417
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 02:50:46 +0100
From: Manuel
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Serial port mice question...
text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Just try cutemouse from freedos project.

I should work with nearly all serial mouses (autodetect) and needs only 4k ram.
If you're having xms or ems ram it will use that and 0kb base memory.
Im using that one with my gridcase 1530, msdos 622 and a logitech serial mouse.

regards
manuel


Am 15.01.2012 um 02:42 schrieb Rainbow:

> I agree. The serial mouse should work with the GRiD 2270. The model number of the serial mouse is 260-0389, easy enough to remember. The Radio Shack serial mouse will work on MS-DOS 5.0, Windows 3.1 and later, but I cannot find any drivers for the Radio Shack serial mouse as I tried to search it on Google.
>
> If I cannot find any drivers for the serial mouse, where can I get them?
>
> (By the way, I tried to take pictures of the 2270 again, but the battery died out on me and it needs to be recharged.)
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2418
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 02:22:47 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Serial port mice question...

Wonderful.

As I'm currently running Windows 3.1 (with Pen Extensions) would I need to select the correct driver for a serial port mouse as well?

For the time being the mouse cursor is stuck in the middle of the screen and I would have to wait until at least the 20th for the serial port mouse to arrive.

And I recently ordered the replacement 393 silver oxide button cell batteries as Shawnerz pointed out. The tablet pen requires at least two button cell batteries. I ordered six of them (at $2.13 each) and with three chances, all of the batteries should last approximately nine months to as much as three years. :)

When I get the new batteries, I will store it in a safe place.

Yahoo! Message number: 2419
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:27:04 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: More questions to consider here.

Okay, I have a few questions that I would like to ask here.

1. When I first got the GRiD 2270, the Control Panel had two apps, an app for the PCMCIA card and a app regarding the settings for the 80486 SL processor. When I looked into the setup files for the OEM version of Windows 3.1 for the GRiD 2270, I couldn't find it. What files that I need to look to when I need certain Control Panel apps for the PCMCIA card and the tune-up settings for the 80486 SL processor?

2. The GRiD 2270 has a PCMCIA card next to the parallel port/floppy diskette drive. Page 2-25 and Page 5-10 of the manual states that the PCMCIA slot allows the user to use 68-pin PCMCIA Release 2.0 cards. When I tried to insert the SanDisk 2 GB CompactFlash PC Card adapter into the PCMCIA slot, neither MS-DOS nor Windows 3.1 would recognise it. Which of the PCMCIA cards can be recongised on the GRiD 2270 and where can I get them?

3. The latest photo that I uploaded earlier this week shows that the GRiD 2270 has a broken right hinge. As there are most likely no replacement parts available to replace the broken right hinge, are there any other ways to repair the broken right hinge? If so, how would it be done?

4. Memory upgrades. The GRiD 2270 laptop only has 4 MB of system RAM (640 KB base memory, 3,264 KB extended memory and 192 KB of shadow RAM) and the GRiD 2270 can be upgraded to either 8 MB or even 12 MB officially. The RAM connector can be found on page 2-34 of the manual. Is it possible to upgrade the system memory (unofficially) to either 20 MB or as much as 36 MB? Where can you find memory upgrades for the GRiD 2270?

I'm hoping that you take the time to answer these questions and you don't have to answer them all. My grammar is not 100% perfect, but thank you for your time.

Yahoo! Message number: 2420
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:30:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] More questions to consider here.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Sorry Rainbow.  I can't answer any of your questions since I have no experience with the 2270.
The only little bit of help I can offer is on the RAM.  We would need to know what type of RAM the 2270 uses.  From that, we can determine what you can put in.  My guess is it's SIMM type RAM modules.  If the RAM is soldered to the motherboard, then upgrading will be difficult.
Because I've never owned one, I can't be more specific.
Sorry,
-Shawn


________________________________
 From: Rainbow <rainbow_utonium@yahoo.com>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 4:27 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] More questions to consider here.

Okay, I have a few questions that I would like to ask here.

1. When I first got the GRiD 2270, the Control Panel had two apps, an app for the PCMCIA card and a app regarding the settings for the 80486 SL processor. When I looked into the setup files for the OEM version of Windows 3.1 for the GRiD 2270, I couldn't find it. What files that I need to look to when I need certain Control Panel apps for the PCMCIA card and the tune-up settings for the 80486 SL processor?

2. The GRiD 2270 has a PCMCIA card next to the parallel port/floppy diskette drive. Page 2-25 and Page 5-10 of the manual states that the PCMCIA slot allows the user to use 68-pin PCMCIA Release 2.0 cards. When I tried to insert the SanDisk 2 GB CompactFlash PC Card adapter into the PCMCIA slot, neither MS-DOS nor Windows 3.1 would recognise it. Which of the PCMCIA cards can be recongised on the GRiD 2270 and where can I get them?

3. The latest photo that I uploaded earlier this week shows that the GRiD 2270 has a broken right hinge. As there are most likely no replacement parts available to replace the broken right hinge, are there any other ways to repair the broken right hinge? If so, how would it be done?

4. Memory upgrades. The GRiD 2270 laptop only has 4 MB of system RAM (640 KB base memory, 3,264 KB extended memory and 192 KB of shadow RAM) and the GRiD 2270 can be upgraded to either 8 MB or even 12 MB officially. The RAM connector can be found on page 2-34 of the manual. Is it possible to upgrade the system memory (unofficially) to either 20 MB or as much as 36 MB? Where can you find memory upgrades for the GRiD 2270?

I'm hoping that you take the time to answer these questions and you don't have to answer them all. My grammar is not 100% perfect, but thank you for your time.



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2421
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 04:45:19 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: More questions to consider here.

I believe that it's the SIMM type of memory. I'm gonna try to look up online for memory upgrades for the GRiD 2270 to see if it helps.

As for the missing apps on the Control Panel, they're on the old hard drive and I'm still waiting to get the data off of the 130 MB hard drive that is no longer in use.

In case, you didn't notice, I had to reinstall MS-DOS and Windows 3.1 after the hard drive was upgraded.

Yahoo! Message number: 2422
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 06:56:12 -0000
From: "flecom84"
Subject: Re: Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest

anything ever come of this? the hard drive in my 1530 is dead and it would be great to replace it with something like a 256mb cf card

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> OK Phil,
> You brought up a good question.  I wasn't going to bore the rest of the group
> with it.  But since you asked... ;-)
> I have the standard IDE board that connects to the motherboard and to the hard
> drive in my Grid.  I found, through trial and error (and a multimeter), that you
> have to use an IDE extension cable -not the typical IDE cable- to connect a IDE
> to Compact Flash (CF) adapter to the Grid.  You can also connect a hard drive to
> the end of the IDE extension cable.  IDE extension cables have male connectors
> on one side and female on the other.
> I knew I had the proper cable (IDE extentions) when I could connect an CP3022
> drive and have it recognized by the BIOS.
> I hope that helps,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, March 21, 2011 6:09:31 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest
>
> Great Stuff, Kevin,
>
> As per Shawn, way beyond my pay scale. I sort of know about the stuff you're
> talking about vaguely, but I have never worked with any of it at that deep a
> level. If I had the time, I'd love to learn. Maybe some day. Like you, I would
> prefer to work with the 1530's, even though I have several 1520's. My premiere
> unit is the one I actually bought in 1986, but since then refurbised. It is
> maxed out with EGA/VGA, 8 MB RAM, a CPS 420A hard drive, and the coprocessor. I
> also have several others in good working order.
>
> My current project idea is trying to make an adaptation of the memory sticks,
> due to the fact it really is nearly impossible now to find any 1MB RAM sticks
> that will actually fit. I do remember that Paradigm (I think that's the correct
> name of the company) made a kit that adapted a couple of 4 MB sticks to the RAM
> space of the computer. I would like to find a schematic of that adaptation, or
> at least find someone who knows the architecture well enough to create one. I
> would like to find a way to adapt an 8MB or even a 16 MB RAM SIMM to the memory
> area in place of those 1 MB sticks. I don't think the actual circuitry is that
> difficult, but I just don't know enough to actually create the schematic. Once I
> have the schematic though, I can build the board. Then it's just the mechanics
> of fitting it to the computer.
>
> I would like to ask Shawn: Exactly how are you connecting the flash drive to the
> computer?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2423
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 18:34:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Frank,
Sorry for the delay in responding.  I got distracted and forgot to answer your email.
No, I have not done anything with this.  I moved in to an aprtment and my Grid's are in storage.  I have some other projects lined up ahead of the Grid's, so they will have to wait.
Thanks for your post.
-Shawn


________________________________
 From: flecom84 <frank@flecom.net>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 1:56 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest

anything ever come of this? the hard drive in my 1530 is dead and it would be great to replace it with something like a 256mb cf card

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> OK Phil,
> You brought up a good question.  I wasn't going to bore the rest of the group
> with it.  But since you asked... ;-)
> I have the standard IDE board that connects to the motherboard and to the hard
> drive in my Grid.  I found, through trial and error (and a multimeter), that you
> have to use an IDE extension cable -not the typical IDE cable- to connect a IDE
> to Compact Flash (CF) adapter to the Grid.  You can also connect a hard drive to
> the end of the IDE extension cable.  IDE extension cables have male connectors
> on one side and female on the other.
> I knew I had the proper cable (IDE extentions) when I could connect an CP3022
> drive and have it recognized by the BIOS.
> I hope that helps,
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, March 21, 2011 6:09:31 PM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest
>
> Great Stuff, Kevin,
>
> As per Shawn, way beyond my pay scale. I sort of know about the stuff you're
> talking about vaguely, but I have never worked with any of it at that deep a
> level. If I had the time, I'd love to learn. Maybe some day. Like you, I would
> prefer to work with the 1530's, even though I have several 1520's. My premiere
> unit is the one I actually bought in 1986, but since then refurbised. It is
> maxed out with EGA/VGA, 8 MB RAM, a CPS 420A hard drive, and the coprocessor. I
> also have several others in good working order.
>
> My current project idea is trying to make an adaptation of the memory sticks,
> due to the fact it really is nearly impossible now to find any 1MB RAM sticks
> that will actually fit. I do remember that Paradigm (I think that's the correct
> name of the company) made a kit that adapted a couple of 4 MB sticks to the RAM
> space of the computer. I would like to find a schematic of that adaptation, or
> at least find someone who knows the architecture well enough to create one. I
> would like to find a way to adapt an 8MB or even a 16 MB RAM SIMM to the memory
> area in place of those 1 MB sticks. I don't think the actual circuitry is that
> difficult, but I just don't know enough to actually create the schematic. Once I
> have the schematic though, I can build the board. Then it's just the mechanics
> of fitting it to the computer.
>
> I would like to ask Shawn: Exactly how are you connecting the flash drive to the
> computer?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>




------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2424
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 04:48:35 -0000
From: "flecom84"
Subject: Re: Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest

no worries, guess I will have to find a conner

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@...> wrote:
>
> Frank,
> Sorry for the delay in responding.  I got distracted and forgot to answer your email.
> No, I have not done anything with this.  I moved in to an aprtment and my Grid's are in storage.  I have some other projects lined up ahead of the Grid's, so they will have to wait.
> Thanks for your post.
> -Shawn
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: flecom84 <frank@...>
> To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 1:56 AM
> Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest
>
> anything ever come of this? the hard drive in my 1530 is dead and it would be great to replace it with something like a 256mb cf card
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Shawnerz <shawnerz@> wrote:
> >
> > OK Phil,
> > You brought up a good question.  I wasn't going to bore the rest of the group 
> > with it.  But since you asked... ;-)
> > I have the standard IDE board that connects to the motherboard and to the hard
> > drive in my Grid.  I found, through trial and error (and a multimeter), that you
> > have to use an IDE extension cable -not the typical IDE cable- to connect a IDE
> > to Compact Flash (CF) adapter to the Grid.  You can also connect a hard drive to
> > the end of the IDE extension cable.  IDE extension cables have male connectors
> > on one side and female on the other.
> > I knew I had the proper cable (IDE extentions) when I could connect an CP3022
> > drive and have it recognized by the BIOS.
> > I hope that helps,
> > -Shawn
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: jeriddian <Jeriddian@>
> > To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Mon, March 21, 2011 6:09:31 PM
> > Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Update in Boot from Compact Flash Quest
> >
> > Great Stuff, Kevin,
> >
> > As per Shawn, way beyond my pay scale. I sort of know about the stuff you're
> > talking about vaguely, but I have never worked with any of it at that deep a
> > level. If I had the time, I'd love to learn. Maybe some day. Like you, I would
> > prefer to work with the 1530's, even though I have several 1520's. My premiere
> > unit is the one I actually bought in 1986, but since then refurbised. It is
> > maxed out with EGA/VGA, 8 MB RAM, a CPS 420A hard drive, and the coprocessor. I
> > also have several others in good working order.
> > 
> > My current project idea is trying to make an adaptation of the memory sticks,
> > due to the fact it really is nearly impossible now to find any 1MB RAM sticks
> > that will actually fit. I do remember that Paradigm (I think that's the correct
> > name of the company) made a kit that adapted a couple of 4 MB sticks to the RAM
> > space of the computer. I would like to find a schematic of that adaptation, or
> > at least find someone who knows the architecture well enough to create one. I
> > would like to find a way to adapt an 8MB or even a 16 MB RAM SIMM to the memory
> > area in place of those 1 MB sticks. I don't think the actual circuitry is that
> > difficult, but I just don't know enough to actually create the schematic. Once I
> > have the schematic though, I can build the board. Then it's just the mechanics
> > of fitting it to the computer.
> >
> > I would like to ask Shawn: Exactly how are you connecting the flash drive to the
> > computer?
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2425
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 10:49:49 -0000
From: "flecom84"
Subject: Installing WfW 3.11 drivers?

I finally got a hard drive working in my GRiD 1530 (420mb conner after modding bios ty to the person that made that app!) and am in the process of trying to install Windows 3.11... during the installation process it tells me that I need the disk for my "Olivetti/AT&T Monochrome or PVC Display" display...

I can't seem to find this anywhere, I don't have any original GRiD windows disks, just regular 3.11 Micro$oft disks...

I tried selecting VGA but since the 1530 is 640x200 that was a no-go

any suggestions?

Yahoo! Message number: 2426
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 15:09:49 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Installing WfW 3.11 drivers?

Flecom84,
You're welcome. I think you are thanking us for the document. If you are, it was an effort from both Phil and myself with help from a guy named Mike.
as far as you installation issue, first what "WfW"? 
Is it just Windows? Word for Windows?
I just want to be sure were talking about the same thing.
As far as the driver issue, does the problem happen after Windows installtion or just when you change the display settings?
If it's during installation,  I have a copy of Win 3.11 on disks. You're installing from 3.5 floppy's right? Not 5 1/4.
I can Zip it and send it to you.
-Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: "flecom84" <frank@flecom.net>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 10:49:49 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Installing WfW 3.11 drivers?

I finally got a hard drive working in my GRiD 1530 (420mb conner after modding bios ty to the person that made that app!) and am in the process of trying to install Windows 3.11... during the installation process it tells me that I need the disk for my "Olivetti/AT&T Monochrome or PVC Display" display...

I can't seem to find this anywhere, I don't have any original GRiD windows disks, just regular 3.11 Micro$oft disks...

I tried selecting VGA but since the 1530 is 640x200 that was a no-go

any suggestions?



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2427
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 10:37:46 -0800
From: jim s
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Installing WfW 3.11 drivers?

I suspect he means the Windows for Workgroups system install.

I might have a copy not poisoned for the At&T hardware.  I don't think 
any windows sensed any hardware, but had scripts, so if it is asking for 
AT&T drivers, I don't think the set he is using is the generic product.

I have mine running on vmware, and mainly need the network driver for 
the AMD chip that vmware picked, but that is for another group...  way 
off topic.

WFW would be nice if he can get a network card into the grid he has.  
With a big external battery and a wireless hotspot, he could go wireless!

if the card is AUI out, I'd love to see that lashup.  AUI to 10bT to the 
hostspot.
Jim

On 3/3/2012 7:09 AM, shawnerz@... wrote:
> as far as you installation issue, first what "WfW"?
> Is it just Windows? Word for Windows?

Yahoo! Message number: 2428
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:18:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: Installing WfW 3.11 drivers?
text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I had Win installed on my 1520. Unfortunately the Conner finally died and is awaiting ressurection. I did this after installing 4 meg of ram in a precise order in the 8 slots. Later I upped it to 8meg. IIRC it required enabling the EXT ram using the simple setup program from AST which I believe is in the files section. I was surprised it didn't have to be the AT EXP ram. I can't recall whether it had to be run in unprotected mode. I had MSDOS 5 on the Grid and used a regular installation from MS. 3.1 (?)
I also have it installed on a NEC Prospeed AT laptop which is has been buried under other computers for a decade.

Yahoo! Message number: 2429
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 08:28:03 -0000
From: "Alessandro"
Subject: GRIDCASE 1590

Hi ,somebody knows this device. .I did a search on the web, not finding anything
If anyone has information about it I would be interested to receive some data.
I have a working model ever used.
Above I uploaded a youtube video for those who are curious to view it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kv7AFXvvho&context=C4fe60a1ADvjVQa1PpcFP-_AkNLLRna0GiCp9ABhGczprprh1xIGc=

Ciao...Alessandro Aria
Stromboli Islans


www.prestazionidansia.com

Yahoo! Message number: 2430
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 08:28:21 -0000
From: "Alessandro"
Subject: GRIDCASE 1590

Hi ,somebody knows this device. .I did a search on the web, not finding anything
If anyone has information about it I would be interested to receive some data.
I have a working model ever used.
Above I uploaded a youtube video for those who are curious to view it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kv7AFXvvho&context=C4fe60a1ADvjVQa1PpcFP-_AkNLLRna0GiCp9ABhGczprprh1xIGc=

Ciao...Alessandro Aria
Stromboli Islans


www.prestazionidansia.com

Yahoo! Message number: 2431
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 08:31:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: Alessandro Aria
Subject: Re: GRIDCASE 1590
text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi ,somebody knows this device. .I did a search on the web, not finding anything
If anyone has information about it I would be interested to receive some data.
I have a working model never used.
Above I uploaded a youtube video for those who are curious to view it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kv7AFXvvho&context=C4fe60a1ADvjVQa1PpcFP-_AkNLLRna0GiCp9ABhGczprprh1xIGc=

Ciao...Alessandro Aria
Stromboli Islans

www.prestazionidansia.com

Yahoo! Message number: 2432
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 17:05:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRIDCASE 1590
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Wow!  I have never seen a Grid like that before.  Thank you *very* much for the video link, Alessandro.
I did not know that Grid made a 1590.  Very good find.
I am curious, how did you get that computer?  Was it on Ebay?
Do you have and other information about it?  Was that the original hard drive?
 
Thank you for sharing the information. 
-Shawn


________________________________
 From: Alessandro <alessandro.aria@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 3:28 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRIDCASE 1590

Hi ,somebody knows this device. .I did a search on the web, not finding anything
If anyone has information about it I would be interested to receive some data.
I have a working model ever used.
Above I uploaded a youtube video for those who are curious to view it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kv7AFXvvho&context=C4fe60a1ADvjVQa1PpcFP-_AkNLLRna0GiCp9ABhGczprprh1xIGc=

Ciao...Alessandro Aria
Stromboli Islans


www.prestazionidansia.com



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2433
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 13:14:04 +1100
From: Nigel Williams
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRIDCASE 1590

The stickers suggest is made by GRiD Defence Systems which I
understand is the UK based remnants of GRiD. It looks like they used
their own shell and put a mix of OEM boards and perhaps their own
inside the case?

Yahoo! Message number: 2434
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 02:43:18 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: GRIDCASE 1590

Thank you so much for posting the link!

I watched that video and it looks like that the GRiD Gridcase 1590 is a 500 MHz Pentium III rugged laptop with a 30 GB hard drive and 128 MB of memory. The sticker suggests that the rugged laptop was made by GRiD Defense Systems (UK based remnants of GRiD as Nigel put it).

The laptop had Windows NT 4.0 SP6 on it...or someone was trying to install that OS for sure.

Yahoo! Message number: 2435
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 10:16:08 +0000 (GMT)
From: Alessandro Aria
Subject: GRIDCASE 1590
text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hello everyone. I'm glad you enjoyed my device. A month ago, an Italian seller on ebay, has proposed the GRID.
A month ago, an Italian seller on ebay, has proposed the GRID.
But the price has gone too expansive for my bugget (183 €)

Unexpectedly, I see them exactly the same, and I won the auction @ 80 €.

I'm talking about an Italian seller. I have not seen after other.

I posted other foto on FLICKR.
Hall the hardware is "TEMPEST CERTIFIED"
The connectors are produced by "GLENAIR" series 660-024NF
The locking devices and hinges are producer by "SOUTHCO"

Internally there is a little board containing a pair of: IC operazional and one for BF audio,

connected to mother board;It would seem to be a small amply audio maybe for external
speakers.
Surprisingly, on the top of the motherboard, as well  PROCESSOR PENTIUM III, there are other IC's that requiring the surface cooling .I do not know the function.

For now is all...see you later.


Alessandro

STROMBOLI Island.

New fotos

http://www.flickr.com/photos/prestazionidansia/sets/72157629181006050/

Yahoo! Message number: 2436
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 06:27:52 -0000
From: "flecom84"
Subject: Re: Installing WfW 3.11 drivers?

Basically it would not let me install because it wanted the AT&T driver for the display...

ended up installing windows 3.1 (which had the AT&T display driver it wanted to run the Grid display) and that worked fine

then installed 3.11 on top of it and the only problem is there is no "splash" logo since its VGA only but besides that it seems to work fine...


--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, jim s <jws@...> wrote:
>
> I suspect he means the Windows for Workgroups system install.
>
> I might have a copy not poisoned for the At&T hardware.  I don't think
> any windows sensed any hardware, but had scripts, so if it is asking for
> AT&T drivers, I don't think the set he is using is the generic product.
>
> I have mine running on vmware, and mainly need the network driver for
> the AMD chip that vmware picked, but that is for another group...  way
> off topic.
>
> WFW would be nice if he can get a network card into the grid he has.
> With a big external battery and a wireless hotspot, he could go wireless!
>
> if the card is AUI out, I'd love to see that lashup.  AUI to 10bT to the
> hostspot.
> Jim
>
> On 3/3/2012 7:09 AM, shawnerz@... wrote:
> > as far as you installation issue, first what "WfW"?
> > Is it just Windows? Word for Windows?
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2437
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:57:15 -0000
From: "bigwalk_ca"
Subject: Re: GRIDCASE 1590

 Rob' GridBoard has specs for the Tempest Laptop but only up to the 1585. They built in the UK and at one point (Iraq ?) they had a contract to supply the UK military. Try this. GRID UK has long departed. I've been surpised more haven't turned up in the UK. Perhaps the Defense Dept. destroyed theirs.

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, Alessandro Aria <alessandro.aria@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone. I'm glad you enjoyed my device. A month ago, an Italian seller on ebay, has proposed the GRID.
> A month ago, an Italian seller on ebay, has proposed the GRID.
> But the price has gone too expansive for my bugget (183 €)
>
> Unexpectedly, I see them exactly the same, and I won the auction @ 80 €.
>
> I'm talking about an Italian seller. I have not seen after other.
>
> I posted other foto on FLICKR.
> Hall the hardware is "TEMPEST CERTIFIED"
> The connectors are produced by "GLENAIR" series 660-024NF
> The locking devices and hinges are producer by "SOUTHCO"
>
> Internally there is a little board containing a pair of: IC operazional and one for BF audio,
>
> connected to mother board;It would seem to be a small amply audio maybe for external
> speakers.
> Surprisingly, on the top of the motherboard, as well  PROCESSOR PENTIUM III, there are other IC's that requiring the surface cooling .I do not know the function.
>
> For now is all...see you later.
>
>
> Alessandro
>
> STROMBOLI Island.
>
> New fotos
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/prestazionidansia/sets/72157629181006050/
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2438
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 10:02:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Walker
Subject: Re: GRIDCASE 1590
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Oops ! I forgot to paste the website.  http://www.pd.com/GRiDpage.html

Yahoo! Message number: 2439
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 04:45:57 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: bios-independent boot loader

I was looking at the specs of the PLOP boot loader... only 40kb and it recognizes IDE and USB boot devices even when the bios doesn't... and I was thinking about the Grids that have the ROM sockets above the keyboard... If PLOP could be burned into EPROMs and you could boot from them you could probably boot from any HDD up to 2TB regardless of the model...  Just a thought. I won't have time to try it in the near future but maybe someone would be interested?  (At least try from PLOP from the boot floppy first...)

Yahoo! Message number: 2440
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 06:45:16 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: bios-independent boot loader

Very interesting! The biggest problem is that MS-DOS 6.22 (and earlier) will never support hard disks larger than 7.84 GB (~8.42 GB) due to the lack of INT13 extensions.

If you have a GRiD laptop, what model are you trying to use to use Plop boot loader on and how big is your hard drive?

Yahoo! Message number: 2441
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 11:13:37 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: bios-independent boot loader

I have a couple up in the attic that I could do this with but, as I said, it's not going to happen right away... just thought I'd share the thought with others...
Mind you, the boot loader wouldn't fix the BIOS.  Any OS that relied on the BIOS for disk access (DOS, Win3.1,Win9X) would still be unable to run.  Versions of Windows from Win2k on would be fine except the old Grid simply doesn't have the RAM or speed to run them.   All of which means that you'd be stuck with early versions of *nix (and that opens a whole new can of worms).








--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:
>
> Very interesting! The biggest problem is that MS-DOS 6.22 (and earlier) will never support hard disks larger than 7.84 GB (~8.42 GB) due to the lack of INT13 extensions.
>
> If you have a GRiD laptop, what model are you trying to use to use Plop boot loader on and how big is your hard drive?
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2442
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 17:31:30 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: bios-independent boot loader

That's no good, isn't it? :(

Yahoo! Message number: 2443
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 06:06:03 -0000
From: "flecom84"
Subject: Re: bios-independent boot loader

I think BasicLinux would probably run on a GRiD, it only needs a 386 with 3mb ram...

once I upgrade mine I am going to try running Basic Linux on it

--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Androgenoide" <androgenoide@...> wrote:
>
> I have a couple up in the attic that I could do this with but, as I said, it's not going to happen right away... just thought I'd share the thought with others...
> Mind you, the boot loader wouldn't fix the BIOS.  Any OS that relied on the BIOS for disk access (DOS, Win3.1,Win9X) would still be unable to run.  Versions of Windows from Win2k on would be fine except the old Grid simply doesn't have the RAM or speed to run them.   All of which means that you'd be stuck with early versions of *nix (and that opens a whole new can of worms).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@> wrote:
> >
> > Very interesting! The biggest problem is that MS-DOS 6.22 (and earlier) will never support hard disks larger than 7.84 GB (~8.42 GB) due to the lack of INT13 extensions.
> >
> > If you have a GRiD laptop, what model are you trying to use to use Plop boot loader on and how big is your hard drive?
> >
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2444
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 07:07:28 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: bios-independent boot loader

As compared to Basic Linux, MS-DOS and FreeDOS can run on a PC with as little as 256 KB RAM. Windows 3.0 requires at least 512 KB of memory in Real Mode. :)

Yahoo! Message number: 2445
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 04:16:22 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: bios-independent boot loader

Having rethought my original suggestion/comment, it has occurred to me that the boot loader offers no real advantages... Given the option of booting from the eproms, a drive overlay would make more sense than a boot loader since it would still allow the use of the bios calls.

Oh well, just a thought... (sure would be nice if the 1550 had the eprom boot option though...)









--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Androgenoide" <androgenoide@...> wrote:
>
> I was looking at the specs of the PLOP boot loader... only 40kb and it recognizes IDE and USB boot devices even when the bios doesn't... and I was thinking about the Grids that have the ROM sockets above the keyboard... If PLOP could be burned into EPROMs and you could boot from them you could probably boot from any HDD up to 2TB regardless of the model...  Just a thought. I won't have time to try it in the near future but maybe someone would be interested?  (At least try from PLOP from the boot floppy first...)
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2446
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 18:31:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRIDCASE 1590
text/plain; charset=utf-8

I meant to send this earlier.
After looking over the pictures, I think the Grid 1590 was used on a military airplane or a submarine.  Glenair is a connector manufacturer.  They make a lot of the round, circular locking connectors used by the military.
Most of the video was showing Windows booting.  It would be helpful to see the connectors, the special keyboard, and special interface boards on the inside of the Grid. 
But I think the computer was specifically built for the British military.  I know that they are getting rid of their Nimrod aircraft.  Maybe the Grid was used on it?
-Shawn
________________________________
 From: Alessandro Aria <alessandro.aria@...>
To: "RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 5:16 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRIDCASE 1590







Hello everyone. I'm glad you enjoyed my device. A month ago, an Italian seller on ebay, has proposed the GRID.
A month ago, an Italian seller on ebay, has proposed the GRID.
But the price has gone too expansive for my bugget (183 €)

Unexpectedly, I see them exactly the same, and I won the auction @ 80 €.

I'm talking about an Italian seller. I have not seen after other.

I posted other foto on FLICKR.
Hall the hardware is "TEMPEST CERTIFIED"
The connectors are produced by "GLENAIR" series 660-024NF
The locking devices and hinges are producer by "SOUTHCO"

Internally there is a little board containing a pair of: IC operazional and one for BF audio,

connected to mother board;It would seem to be a small amply audio maybe for external
speakers.
Surprisingly, on the top of the motherboard, as well  PROCESSOR PENTIUM III, there are other IC's that requiring the surface cooling .I do not know the function.

For now is all...see you later.


Alessandro

STROMBOLI Island.

New fotos

http://www.flickr.com/photos/prestazionidansia/sets/72157629181006050/

Yahoo! Message number: 2447
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:16:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: Alessandro Aria
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRIDCASE 1590
text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi Shawnerz, I posted some foto on FLICKR, but now  I add new particolars.
Tnk....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/prestazionidansia/sets/72157629181006050/



________________________________
 Da: Shawnerz <shawnerz@yahoo.com>
A: "RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Inviato: Venerdì 16 Marzo 2012 2:31
Oggetto: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRIDCASE 1590


 
I meant to send this earlier.
After looking over the pictures, I think the Grid 1590 was used on a military airplane or a submarine.  Glenair is a connector manufacturer.  They make a lot of the round, circular locking connectors used by the military.
Most of the video was showing Windows booting.  It would be helpful to see the connectors, the special keyboard, and special interface boards on the inside of the Grid. 
But I think the computer was specifically built for the British military.  I know that they are getting rid of their Nimrod aircraft.  Maybe the Grid was used on it?
-Shawn
From: Alessandro Aria <alessandro.aria@...>
To: "RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com" <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 5:16 AM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRIDCASE 1590






Hello everyone. I'm glad you enjoyed my device. A month ago, an Italian seller on ebay, has proposed the GRID.
A month ago, an Italian seller on ebay, has proposed the GRID.
But the price has gone too expansive for my bugget (183 €)

Unexpectedly, I see them exactly the same, and I won the auction @ 80 €.

I'm talking about an Italian seller. I have not seen after other.

I posted other foto on FLICKR.
Hall the hardware is "TEMPEST CERTIFIED"
The connectors are produced by "GLENAIR" series 660-024NF
The locking devices and hinges are producer by "SOUTHCO"

Internally there is a little board containing a pair of: IC operazional and one for BF audio,

connected to mother board;It would seem to be a small amply audio maybe for external
speakers.
Surprisingly, on the top of the motherboard, as well  PROCESSOR PENTIUM III, there are other IC's that requiring the surface cooling .I do not know the function.

For now is all...see you later.


Alessandro

STROMBOLI Island.

New fotos

http://www.flickr.com/photos/prestazionidansia/sets/72157629181006050/

Yahoo! Message number: 2448
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 23:08:06 -0000
From: "wd8cyv"
Subject: Re: Installing WfW 3.11 drivers?

i installed win 3.1 on a 1520

load dos 5 or 6
then load win 3.1   before you

let it run the first time
edit   auto-exec.bat and config sys
so that SMART DRIVE and any DOUBLE SPACE programs ARE NOT RUNNING

1498 kb will run it
but  you run out of memory with about 2 pages of text
in note pad

if needed i have 4 disk files that build a dos 6 install
dave wd8cyv

Yahoo! Message number: 2449
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:04:36 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: GRiD 2270 won't turn on.

Well, I don't know what to tell you but the GRiD 2270 laptop that I have been using for more than two years will not turn on anymore. :(

Not only the reason is that the battery is not holding a charge anymore, there is a crack developing in the left handle of the NiCAD battery pack. Which turns out to be the point where the GRiD 2270 will no longer work at all.

I found at least one replacement battery pack on TamayaTech for at least $99 (*ouch*), but I don't have the money to buy one. :(

You can see my latest photo for this reason and forgive me, it's not a good looking photo.

As we're planning to try to get the battery pack repaired, how can I get the battery pack repaired without throwing it away?

Yahoo! Message number: 2450
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:21:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD 2270 won't turn on.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Rainbow,
The photo is not clear.  I can not see the cracks that you talk about.  I'm not saying thay're not there.  I'm just saying I can't see them.
 
Here is a possiblity.  I'm not saying this will work, but it may work.
NiCD Lady in California (http://www.nicdladyonline.com/ ) will rebuild your battery pack.  You could send it to them and ask them evaluate how much it would cost to rebuild.  My guess is it would be around 40-50 dollars.  If you send them your battery, be sure to call often and ask about your battery.  Thy tend to get busy and you order may get pushed to the side.
 
Good luck and let us know how you make out.
-Shawn


________________________________
 From: Rainbow <rainbow_utonium@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 5:04 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] GRiD 2270 won't turn on.

Well, I don't know what to tell you but the GRiD 2270 laptop that I have been using for more than two years will not turn on anymore. :(

Not only the reason is that the battery is not holding a charge anymore, there is a crack developing in the left handle of the NiCAD battery pack. Which turns out to be the point where the GRiD 2270 will no longer work at all.

I found at least one replacement battery pack on TamayaTech for at least $99 (*ouch*), but I don't have the money to buy one. :(

You can see my latest photo for this reason and forgive me, it's not a good looking photo.

As we're planning to try to get the battery pack repaired, how can I get the battery pack repaired without throwing it away?



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2451
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 07:18:52 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: GRiD 2270 won't turn on.

Hey there. It's not my fault that the photo isn't clear, it's the camera itself as I didn't get it bright enough. Unfortunately, I don't have the GRiD 2270, because I sent it to someone to try to get it repaired.

I'll go to a website that you linked and see if they can try to get the battery pack rebuild. $40 to $50 doesn't sound like a bad price.

The model number of the battery pack is G44-1379, by the way.

Yahoo! Message number: 2452
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 22:30:33 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Taking the battery pack apart.

Hey there! I would like to know if there was a way to take the battery pack apart without breaking it.

My sister is being stubborn and won't even help me, plus it costs too much to get the battery pack replaced. :(

It is a NiCAD battery pack and it has the GRiD Stock No. G44-1379 attached to the GRiD 2270 laptop.

It would be really upsetting to be forced to leave this community, because my sister won't help me and the fact that I don't think that there are any replacement parts available for that thing. :(

Should I take some more photos of the battery pack to see what I mean?

Yahoo! Message number: 2453
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 23:21:48 +0000
From: shawnerz@...
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Taking the battery pack apart.

Rainbow,
There is a way, but you have to be careful not to get things too hot.
If things get too hot, the plastic will warp and it's possible the battery pack will not fit back in to the case.
The is also a remote chance of igniting the batteries. The chance of this is slim, but technically possible, I guess.
Also keep in mind that you're getting this advice from "some guy on the Internet."
So if you're comfortable with that and you're willing to accept the risk you might be able to open the battery pack this way:
First, look for the obvious. Are there any screws holding the pack together?
I'm not familiar with the 2270, so bear with me.
Step 2: Assume the pack is glued together. Look for a seam in the battery pack where two pieces of plastic come together.
If the 2 pieces fit together tightly and do not separate AND there are is nothing else holding it together, it's probably glued.
The glue should loosed when it's heated.  To heat the glue, you can try a hair dryer.  Don't use the diffuser attachment. You want to focus the hot air on the seam.  Try to gently pry a small flatblade screwdriver in to the seam. After about 7 to 10 seconds, the glue should loosen.  Gently work it in as the seam separates.
Continue with the "heat and pry" method around the pack until the pack lid is removed.

I have a heat gun that gets hotter than a hair dryer.  I've never used a hair dryer for opening cases. So, I'm not sure if a hair dryer will work.

As the car commercials used to say, "YMMV" (Your Mileage May Vary).
Do this in a well venelated area-in a garage or outside. Don't do this in an enclosed area as, if things go wrong, burnt plastic doesn't smell good and is probably toxic. And if you somehow catch the batteries on fire, it's better to be outside.  If you burn your house down, let's just say your sister isn't going to be supportive in you future projects. Lol
Good luck and let us know how things go.
-Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@yahoo.com>
Sender: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 22:30:33 
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Taking the battery pack apart.

Hey there! I would like to know if there was a way to take the battery pack apart without breaking it.

My sister is being stubborn and won't even help me, plus it costs too much to get the battery pack replaced. :(

It is a NiCAD battery pack and it has the GRiD Stock No. G44-1379 attached to the GRiD 2270 laptop.

It would be really upsetting to be forced to leave this community, because my sister won't help me and the fact that I don't think that there are any replacement parts available for that thing. :(

Should I take some more photos of the battery pack to see what I mean?



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Message number: 2454
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 23:38:13 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Taking the battery pack apart.

Thanks for the help. As you're not familiar with the 2270, it seems that the 2270 itself was never a very well supported product due to the design of the battery pack. There are two weird looking screws holding the battery pack together and none of the screws seem to get the battery pack open.

I will copy the instructions that you made and follow the instructions to see if it will help or not.

Yahoo! Message number: 2455
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 17:48:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawnerz
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Taking the battery pack apart.
text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Rainbow,
Those screws have got to come out! 
 
And, it may be that the screws are the only thing holding the battery pack together.  Once you get those screws out, the pack may separate.
Until you get those screws out, don't even bother with the hair dryer.
 
If they are truely "funny looking" as you describe, it sounds like they might be a type of security screw.  It might be a hex head screw.  If so, you might be able to use this set from Radio Shack: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3932541&filterName=Type&filterValue=Screwdrivers
If it is some other security bit, it could be a Torx head or some other security bit.  You might be able to take the battery pack to Lowes or Home Depot, go to the tools section, and tell the person working there that you need a screw driver to fit that screw.
Good luck,
-Shawn  


________________________________
 From: Rainbow <rainbow_utonium@...>
To: RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 7:38 PM
Subject: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Taking the battery pack apart.



Thanks for the help. As you're not familiar with the 2270, it seems that the 2270 itself was never a very well supported product due to the design of the battery pack. There are two weird looking screws holding the battery pack together and none of the screws seem to get the battery pack open.

I will copy the instructions that you made and follow the instructions to see if it will help or not.



------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Message number: 2456
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 04:15:15 +0100 (BST)
From: Alessandro Aria
Subject: GRIDCASE 1590
text/plain; charset=utf-8

 
Hi ,a GRIDCASE 1590 for sale on eBay!

Ciao...Alessandro

Stromboli Islans

Yahoo! Message number: 2457
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 04:19:11 +0100 (BST)
From: Alessandro Aria
Subject: I: GRIDCASE 1590
text/plain; charset=utf-8

 
Hi ,a GRIDCASE 1590 for sale on eBay!

Ciao...Alessandro

Stromboli Islans

Yahoo! Message number: 2458
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:16:12 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Replacement parts for the GRiD G44-1379 battery pack.

Hey there. I haven't been posting here for a while.

I'm trying to find a replacement part for the GRiD G44-1379 battery pack, aka the GRiD Extended Duty Battery pack and I've been far more patient to wait for months.

I tried TamayaTech and Memory 4 Less, but both websites canceled our orders stating that there were no replacement parts available.

Can you find me a good website where there is still replacement parts available for the GRiD G44-1379, 9.6 volt 2.3Ah battery pack?

Thanks. If there are no replacement parts available anywhere, I'm either gonna have to make a very difficult choice to either get the dead batteries replaced or end up throwing the dead pentop computer in the trash. :(

Yahoo! Message number: 2459
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:47:01 -0700
From: jim s
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Replacement parts for the GRiD G44-1379 battery pack.

I've worked with battery rebuild places around here who will take apart 
anything.  They have all the small machine parts to deal with cutting 
open about anything if you give them permission from potted modules to 
things that are simply glued and need fixing.

Let me try to see if they are still around and get you their info. A 
good battery place shouldn't list a "xyz grid" battery as a part, but 
should answer, "we deal with whatever you send us".

I don't think the place I worked with charges a huge amount, that is a 
separate question.  They did rebuild a nicad operated shaver I was fond 
of w/o much problem.

I don't recall if it was recommended to find a place that way, but it 
will probably have better results than going to the places that list 
every known battery in the world just to get phone calls, and in reality 
have only a few.

Same thing happens with printers.  I think I have a particular printer 
of which there were probably only 50 shipped but it got in a list made 
by a company I used to work for, and I chuckle when I see the ribbon 
listed as "in stock" by one spammer.

As I said this shop would cut it open and had to materials to recreate 
most plastic and paper damage they did and put out a nice job.

Another example to consider that they can do is the Zenith Transoceanic 
battery which has a paper box, dry-cells inside and an old phenolic 5 
pin connector.  I've seen them rebuilt with modern stock.

If you find such a place let us know who it was, as they would be a good 
resource to keep.  I'll track down the shop here and see if they'll do 
what you wish.

thanks
Jim

On 7/20/2012 11:16 AM, Rainbow wrote:
> Hey there. I haven't been posting here for a while.
>
> I'm trying to find a replacement part for the GRiD G44-1379 battery pack, aka the GRiD Extended Duty Battery pack and I've been far more patient to wait for months.
>
> I tried TamayaTech and Memory 4 Less, but both websites canceled our orders stating that there were no replacement parts available.
>
> Can you find me a good website where there is still replacement parts available for the GRiD G44-1379, 9.6 volt 2.3Ah battery pack?
>
> Thanks. If there are no replacement parts available anywhere, I'm either gonna have to make a very difficult choice to either get the dead batteries replaced or end up throwing the dead pentop computer in the trash. :(
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2460
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 02:29:36 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Replacement parts for the GRiD G44-1379 battery pack.

> I've worked with battery rebuild places around here who will take apart
> anything.  They have all the small machine parts to deal with cutting
> open about anything if you give them permission from potted modules to
> things that are simply glued and need fixing.

Dad tried to get the battery open, but he realised that it was NOT even screws, but more like plastic. I'm starting to not trust him.

If he can't help, then it would simply be "not feasible" to fix things without having to destroy the battery pack.

If I can try to illustrate of what the side of the battery pack looks like, I can try to get a clearer picture on how to properly take the battery pack apart, if I can.


> Let me try to see if they are still around and get you their info. A
> good battery place shouldn't list a "xyz grid" battery as a part, but
> should answer, "we deal with whatever you send us".

Since I can't find any replacement parts for the G44-1379 battery pack, I'm gonna have to find ways to take it apart on my own accord. It's never a good idea to have to deal with a XYZ GRiD battery part as a brand since there are almost never any replacement parts available and almost anyone won't help you try to get things repaired. So, it's a good idea to get it to work again on your own.


> I don't think the place I worked with charges a huge amount, that is a
> separate question.  They did rebuild a nicad operated shaver I was fond
> of w/o much problem.

> I don't recall if it was recommended to find a place that way, but it
> will probably have better results than going to the places that list
> every known battery in the world just to get phone calls, and in reality
> have only a few.

> Same thing happens with printers.  I think I have a particular printer
> of which there were probably only 50 shipped but it got in a list made
> by a company I used to work for, and I chuckle when I see the ribbon
> listed as "in stock" by one spammer.

I see what you mean there. I find it really displeasing to find that available parts being listed as "in stock" by spammers only to find that they're no longer available as vendors stopped supporting it a long time ago.


> As I said this shop would cut it open and had to materials to recreate
> most plastic and paper damage they did and put out a nice job.

> Another example to consider that they can do is the Zenith Transoceanic
> battery which has a paper box, dry-cells inside and an old phenolic 5
> pin connector.  I've seen them rebuilt with modern stock.

> If you find such a place let us know who it was, as they would be a good
> resource to keep.  I'll track down the shop here and see if they'll do
> what you wish.

> thanks
> Jim

Oh, really? Jim, if I wanted a Zenith Trans-Oceanic battery, it would need to be in the form of a GRiD Extended Duty battery and it must fit the GRiD 2270 pentop computer.

Again, if I can illustrate what the battery pack looks like and upload it here, we can get somewhere. If you're lucky, you can try the Zenith Trans-Oceanic battery packs on eBay, there is a change that they'll help you.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=%09+Zenith+Trans-Oceanic++battery

I cannot guarantee that using the Trans-Oceanic battery packs will work properly with the GRiD 2270 since most battery packs last for up to two years and up to 750+ charge cycles.

Yahoo! Message number: 2461
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 19:58:41 -0700
From: jim s
Subject: one more attempt

You've missed the point of my posting.  Don't worry about whether they 
have a replacement, noone will have one with current cells in it no 
matter what.

http://www.batteriesplus.com/store_details/440.aspx

the place above has a service called "custom".  What that means is you 
send them your old battery and they'll cut it open, replace the cells 
and reseal the unit.

Forget opening it yourself, or whether your father can.  Part of the 
service you want is to get someone capable of opening the pack, and 
resealing it.

I've been to this store, they should be able to quote opening an old 
pack, rebuilding it and resealing it.  All the work.  Make sure they 
understand it is an obsolete battery pack that has to be opened and 
rebuilt and get a quote for such work.

I'll try to keep it simple.

Jim

Yahoo! Message number: 2462
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 23:21:32 -0400
From: "Len.C"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: Replacement parts for the GRiD G44-1379 battery pack.
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Wow here we go again.

Months and months ago we went through all of this.

You where told to find a place that rebuilds them, its your only chance 
to get it going again on battery.

Someone else just now has told you the same thing, you need a battery 
rebuilder.

Don't hack the shit out of it then try to find someone to fix it. Just 
send it in to one, they have the tools to take it apart without 
destroying and then rebuild it and put it back together so its just like 
new.

No matter what you do you can't do it yourself.


On 7/20/2012 10:29 PM, Rainbow wrote:
>
> > I've worked with battery rebuild places around here who will take apart
> > anything. They have all the small machine parts to deal with cutting
> > open about anything if you give them permission from potted modules to
> > things that are simply glued and need fixing.
>
> Dad tried to get the battery open, but he realised that it was NOT 
> even screws, but more like plastic. I'm starting to not trust him.
>
> If he can't help, then it would simply be "not feasible" to fix things 
> without having to destroy the battery pack.
>
> If I can try to illustrate of what the side of the battery pack looks 
> like, I can try to get a clearer picture on how to properly take the 
> battery pack apart, if I can.
>
> > Let me try to see if they are still around and get you their info. A
> > good battery place shouldn't list a "xyz grid" battery as a part, but
> > should answer, "we deal with whatever you send us".
>
> Since I can't find any replacement parts for the G44-1379 battery 
> pack, I'm gonna have to find ways to take it apart on my own accord. 
> It's never a good idea to have to deal with a XYZ GRiD battery part as 
> a brand since there are almost never any replacement parts available 
> and almost anyone won't help you try to get things repaired. So, it's 
> a good idea to get it to work again on your own.
>
> > I don't think the place I worked with charges a huge amount, that is a
> > separate question. They did rebuild a nicad operated shaver I was fond
> > of w/o much problem.
>
> > I don't recall if it was recommended to find a place that way, but it
> > will probably have better results than going to the places that list
> > every known battery in the world just to get phone calls, and in 
> reality
> > have only a few.
>
> > Same thing happens with printers. I think I have a particular printer
> > of which there were probably only 50 shipped but it got in a list made
> > by a company I used to work for, and I chuckle when I see the ribbon
> > listed as "in stock" by one spammer.
>
> I see what you mean there. I find it really displeasing to find that 
> available parts being listed as "in stock" by spammers only to find 
> that they're no longer available as vendors stopped supporting it a 
> long time ago.
>
> > As I said this shop would cut it open and had to materials to recreate
> > most plastic and paper damage they did and put out a nice job.
>
> > Another example to consider that they can do is the Zenith Transoceanic
> > battery which has a paper box, dry-cells inside and an old phenolic 5
> > pin connector. I've seen them rebuilt with modern stock.
>
> > If you find such a place let us know who it was, as they would be a 
> good
> > resource to keep. I'll track down the shop here and see if they'll do
> > what you wish.
>
> > thanks
> > Jim
>
> Oh, really? Jim, if I wanted a Zenith Trans-Oceanic battery, it would 
> need to be in the form of a GRiD Extended Duty battery and it must fit 
> the GRiD 2270 pentop computer.
>
> Again, if I can illustrate what the battery pack looks like and upload 
> it here, we can get somewhere. If you're lucky, you can try the Zenith 
> Trans-Oceanic battery packs on eBay, there is a change that they'll 
> help you.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=%09+Zenith+Trans-Oceanic++battery
>
> I cannot guarantee that using the Trans-Oceanic battery packs will 
> work properly with the GRiD 2270 since most battery packs last for up 
> to two years and up to 750+ charge cycles.
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2463
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 03:29:34 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: Replacement parts for the GRiD G44-1379 battery pack.

Thanks for the help. I need a battery builder. I was patient long enough and I'm gonna look at a website where the user mentioned and get the battery pack rebuilt.

Yahoo! Message number: 2464
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 03:40:10 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

Thank you so much for the help. Batteries Plus is the place where I will get the battery pack rebuilt.

I will write this down and remember it. :)

I have a couple of questions to ask here.

1. Do I have to send a photo of what the battery pack looks like?

2. I see that their custom support is listed on the bottom of their page.

When I send them a e-mail, do I have to enter the brand name of the battery pack as well as the model number as well as the battery capacity?

Thanks again for the help. I appreciate it.

There is a Batteries Plus in my area. I just looked at it. I can try to take the battery pack in and explain what went wrong. :)

Yahoo! Message number: 2465
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 22:24:11 -0700
From: jim s
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: one more attempt

On 7/20/2012 8:40 PM, Rainbow wrote:
> Thank you so much for the help. Batteries Plus is the place where I will get the battery pack rebuilt.
>
> I will write this down and remember it. :)
>
> I have a couple of questions to ask here.
>
> 1. Do I have to send a photo of what the battery pack looks like?
It wouldn't hurt.  The more you quiz them up front the more likely they 
will do what you need.
> 2. I see that their custom support is listed on the bottom of their page.
>
> When I send them a e-mail, do I have to enter the brand name of the battery pack as well as the model number as well as the battery capacity?
I would say:

"I have a battery pack from an obsolete computer system Grid model 
-xxxx.  (If someone here has a reference for the cells, include that 
info).  I wish to have you rebuild and replace the cells.

I don't have a second battery pack, so I want a quotation on 
disassembling or rebuilding the pack.  It is sealed in plastic and will 
need to be cut open or disassembled, and the batteries identified 
(unless you have the info above to help) and replacements prepared and 
put back in the pack."

I would expect some hesitation on their part to make guarantees as to 
whether it will fit perfectly.  I'd personally like to hear if they 
think they can, or if they can't be honest and tell you they won't try.

I used the radio battery example earlier because that one is 
extraordinarily hard to rebuild.  This should be somewhat less difficult 
because they can just cut it in half or carefully pop open places that 
hold it together, take it apart and then reassemble it with new cells.

they have the capability to weld up and solder up the cells internally 
much better than most of us do.  That is another reason to let them do 
the work.  Soldering can be dangerous with most nicad and lithium cells, 
and the battery places have units that will make quick welds of 
connectors to hook up the replacement cells.

If the insides are corroded, then you will have risk they can't fix it.  
That would just be the breaks.

BTW, I run a lot of laptops around here with just AC, no battery packs, 
so tossing it wouldn't be my choice if you don't get it rebuilt.  
Offering the thing here would be another possiblity.

thanks
Jim


> Thanks again for the help. I appreciate it.
>
> There is a Batteries Plus in my area. I just looked at it. I can try to take the battery pack in and explain what went wrong. :)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2466
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:44:02 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

Just some thoughts...

I have had some limited experience opening sealed batteries and replacing the cells.   That said, there are some real advantages to giving the work to someone who does it regularly even if you have to pay a little more for the use of his expertise.  (if only to keep it looking like something I kluged together...)

Batteries typically have a one year warranty and there are not many things that last significantly longer than their warranty period.  The same rule applies to the new cells in the old battery.   If a rebuilt battery is going to cost $80 and I don't expect to use it in the field more than 8 hours a year that means I'm paying $10/hour to have battery power available.   When that seems unreasonable (as it usually does) I ask myself if it would be better to use a DC adapter or an AC adapter with a small inverter to run it from the car... and that's just what I usually end up doing.

Still, plans have a way of changing and, even if you don't need the battery power now it would be wise to hold on to the old one just to have something that can be rebuilt.















--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you so much for the help. Batteries Plus is the place where I will get the battery pack rebuilt.
>
> I will write this down and remember it. :)
>
> I have a couple of questions to ask here.
>
> 1. Do I have to send a photo of what the battery pack looks like?
>
> 2. I see that their custom support is listed on the bottom of their page.
>
> When I send them a e-mail, do I have to enter the brand name of the battery pack as well as the model number as well as the battery capacity?
>
> Thanks again for the help. I appreciate it.
>
> There is a Batteries Plus in my area. I just looked at it. I can try to take the battery pack in and explain what went wrong. :)
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2467
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 00:35:23 -0000
From: "c40179 at aol.com"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

(HeY Sorry I've been missing these posts because i've been running around and around 7 days a week trying to get caught-up with work in Philadelphia)

Yeah I have a few 2270's and 2260s? buried somewhere.
I cut my finger open reaL baD cutting the battery pack open years back but yeah it's just glued I think. ..
(have to cut all around the whole case..i'd dremmel it if you're sure not to cut into the batteries or wires inside)

dOn'T thrOW it out!!! ..it's just a simple..ugh can't remember now..12v to a couple metal pins? etc.

The Battery was a big pain because the plastic pockets on the battery that latch onto the round metal tabs would break easily since it hung off the back edge and took the brunt of any bump it got .

Fun little pentops though.

inside the pack was fairly simple..just the cells with one little circuit-board at one end but not a complex one ..just something for the wires to connect to i think.

and  yeaH i'd vote to try the company to rebuild too though.


(mY cheat was that I was going to make it open so I could try just shoving in my own rechargable-batteries and charge them seperately ..basically make the pack a big battery holder ..probably still will in a few years)


chris
c40179@...
http://www.ChristopherHillman.com

Yahoo! Message number: 2468
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 18:21:22 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

Thanks so much for the help.

I will indeed tell them that "I have a battery pack from a obsolete rugged tablet PC-based GRiD 2270 (aka GRiD Convertible 486) that I bought from eBay almost three years ago and is no longer supported by its vendor and I'm on my own. I wish to have you try to rebuild and replace the cells if you can."

It would definitely be a good idea to get a good quotation on dissembling and/or replacing the battery pack as the batteries are sealed in plastic and will need to be cut open or disassembled.

The batteries inside the pack are 9.6 volts and have a capacity of 2,300 milliamps. Since it is difficult to find replacement parts for the 9.6 volt, 2,300 milliamp NiCAD batteries, is it possible to find a battery pack with a higher milliamp capacity?

As for the corrosion in the NiCAD batteries, I agree. They're gonna have to find a way to get the corrosion off the batteries, prior to replacing it.

You know, de-soldering and re-soldering the batteries can be dangerous with most NiCAD and lithium cell batteries as they're prone to corrosion. NiCAD batteries and soldiered NiCAD CMOS batteries are found in 286, 386, 486 and even early (original) Pentium laptops.

If the technicians can't find a way to fix the battery, I shouldn't be sticking my head in the sand here. Because there are no more replacement parts available for the battery pack itself, tossing the battery, the tablet PC and the components associated with it in the trash would never be my choice.

I'll have a discussion with others to see what we can come up with. We're not giving up here.

Yahoo! Message number: 2469
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 18:29:08 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

Anything up to $100 shouldn't be that bad when it comes to getting the NiCAD batteries replaced and rebuilding the battery pack.

The only problem is that the AC adapter has to plug into the battery pack itself or the 80486SL-based GRiD 2270 will not function at all.

Batteries in general should last for a long time as long as the end-user takes care of the unit properly.

Yahoo! Message number: 2470
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 18:43:34 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

I see that you do have a few 2270 (80486SL-based) and 2260 (80386SL-based) rugged tablet PCs buried somewhere.

I see that we're getting somewhere. I have found that the battery pack is tightly glued, I believe. I don't know if these metal pins look like screws and that I would need to use a torque screwdriver to try to unscrew the metal pins.

If the technicians are going to take the battery apart, they do need to be extra careful or they will risk breaking the battery pack to a point where it is beyond repair. The battery pack is made out of magnesium and from the way how they're designed, there's a chance that they could break.

Trying Batteries Plus and finding ways to get the battery pack rebuilt is a good choice. To replace the NiCAD batteries, the wires tightly attached to the dead batteries will need to be de-soldiered and soldiered again with replacement batteries.

Throwing out the battery pack is a bad choice and since there are no replacement parts available, I end up risking giving up the entire tablet PC. I don't want to do that.

By the way, in order for the 2260 and 2270 based pentops to work, the AC adapter has to be plugged into the battery pack and since the batteries do not hold a charge anymore, it doesn't. So, the batteries inside the battery pack and not the battery pack itself need to be replaced. :)

Yahoo! Message number: 2471
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 15:23:18 -0400
From: robert
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: one more attempt
text/plain; charset=windows-1252

you can buy tabbed cells on ebay or via hobby shops. some hobby shops have
folks that are experienced with rebuilding all sorts of packs.

batteries plus is very overpriced
On Jul 22, 2012 2:43 PM, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@yahoo.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I see that you do have a few 2270 (80486SL-based) and 2260 (80386SL-based)
> rugged tablet PCs buried somewhere.
>
> I see that we're getting somewhere. I have found that the battery pack is
> tightly glued, I believe. I don't know if these metal pins look like screws
> and that I would need to use a torque screwdriver to try to unscrew the
> metal pins.
>
> If the technicians are going to take the battery apart, they do need to be
> extra careful or they will risk breaking the battery pack to a point where
> it is beyond repair. The battery pack is made out of magnesium and from the
> way how they're designed, there's a chance that they could break.
>
> Trying Batteries Plus and finding ways to get the battery pack rebuilt is
> a good choice. To replace the NiCAD batteries, the wires tightly attached
> to the dead batteries will need to be de-soldiered and soldiered again with
> replacement batteries.
>
> Throwing out the battery pack is a bad choice and since there are no
> replacement parts available, I end up risking giving up the entire tablet
> PC. I don't want to do that.
>
> By the way, in order for the 2260 and 2270 based pentops to work, the AC
> adapter has to be plugged into the battery pack and since the batteries do
> not hold a charge anymore, it doesn't. So, the batteries inside the battery
> pack and not the battery pack itself need to be replaced. :)
>
> 
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2472
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 19:27:25 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

I never heard of tabbed cells on eBay before. Do you have any idea what are tabbed cells and can you show me some examples on eBay?

I should try out some hobby shops as some folks are experienced with rebuilding all sorts of battery packs no matter how old they are!

Yahoo! Message number: 2473
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 15:31:14 -0400
From: robert
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: one more attempt
text/plain; charset=windows-1252

tabbed cells are individual bettery cells with small metal tabs already
welded on. they are sold so hobbyist can build there own custom packs.
On Jul 22, 2012 3:27 PM, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I never heard of tabbed cells on eBay before. Do you have any idea what
> are tabbed cells and can you show me some examples on eBay?
>
> I should try out some hobby shops as some folks are experienced with
> rebuilding all sorts of battery packs no matter how old they are!
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2474
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 20:59:12 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

That sounds like a brilliant idea. Can you provide an example link on eBay where I can get tabbed cells? :D

Yahoo! Message number: 2475
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 17:34:20 -0400
From: robert
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: one more attempt
text/plain; charset=windows-1252

check out ebay item 390103001986
doing a search for "tab battery" will yeild tons of hits. its a matter of
picking the right size and chemistry.

on grid machines its more than likely NiCd what you need to use existing
charge circuit
On Jul 22, 2012 4:59 PM, "Rainbow" <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> That sounds like a brilliant idea. Can you provide an example link on eBay
> where I can get tabbed cells? :D
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2476
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 21:58:22 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

Thanks again for the clues! What product are you referring to in the eBay item 390103001986?

Also, when I search for "tab battery", I am not able to determine the right size until the battery pack is successfully cut open without problems.

I'm guessing that for a single 1.2 volt NiCAD battery, it would take at least eight batteries to equal 9.6 volts total.

Most of these batteries listed on eBay have a capacity of 2,100 milliampere-hours (mAh), which isn't enough to satisfy the exact capacity of the battery pack itself. The other blue battery has a capacity of 2,500 mAh, but it will most likely not fit the battery pack.

Yahoo! Message number: 2477
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 17:34:31 -0700
From: jim s
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: one more attempt
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 7/22/2012 2:58 PM, Rainbow wrote:
> Thanks again for the clues! What product are you referring to in the eBay item 390103001986?

Description for auction 390103001986: C Rechargeable Battery 2500mAh 
NiCd 1.2V Flat Top w/Tab

so battery and tab in the ebay search box would bring this one up.

http://www/ebay.com/itm/390103001986

did you hit this auction?

Jim

Yahoo! Message number: 2478
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 02:12:53 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

I see that they're worth $4.95 each for a single rechargable battery pack, but in order to 8 to make 9.6 volts, the total cost would be $39.60 + $20.56 shipping and handling ($60.16 total). Not a too bad of a offer. :)

The correct link is right here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/390103001986

I will have the technicians take the battery pack apart and see how many batteries are in there for sure, just to verify this and we'll go from there.

I will have to write the link to the URL link down and see if there are any 2,500 mAh NiCD replacement batteries available.

Thanks so much for all of the help. We are definitely getting somewhere.

Yahoo! Message number: 2479
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 22:31:29 -0400
From: "Len.C"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: one more attempt
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

WOW!

I can't believe after reading messages from rainbow months and months 
ago then again the last few days that people lead him on about repairing 
this pack himself.

People, he does not have the capability to do this and you are all just 
making the agony drag out longer and longer for him.


On 7/22/2012 5:58 PM, Rainbow wrote:
>
> Thanks again for the clues! What product are you referring to in the 
> eBay item 390103001986?
>
> Also, when I search for "tab battery", I am not able to determine the 
> right size until the battery pack is successfully cut open without 
> problems.
>
> I'm guessing that for a single 1.2 volt NiCAD battery, it would take 
> at least eight batteries to equal 9.6 volts total.
>
> Most of these batteries listed on eBay have a capacity of 2,100 
> milliampere-hours (mAh), which isn't enough to satisfy the exact 
> capacity of the battery pack itself. The other blue battery has a 
> capacity of 2,500 mAh, but it will most likely not fit the battery pack.
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2480
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 22:35:30 -0400
From: "Len.C"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: one more attempt
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

You do realize that those will never fit in the battery pack you have 
don't you?

You just need to send it in for rebuilding, if you don't, ya I hate to 
discourage you but if you attempt to do this your self you may as well 
just toss it all in the trash now.


On 7/22/2012 10:12 PM, Rainbow wrote:
>
>
>
> I see that they're worth $4.95 each for a single rechargable battery 
> pack, but in order to 8 to make 9.6 volts, the total cost would be 
> $39.60 + $20.56 shipping and handling ($60.16 total). Not a too bad of 
> a offer. :)
>
> The correct link is right here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/390103001986
>
> I will have the technicians take the battery pack apart and see how 
> many batteries are in there for sure, just to verify this and we'll go 
> from there.
>
> I will have to write the link to the URL link down and see if there 
> are any 2,500 mAh NiCD replacement batteries available.
>
> Thanks so much for all of the help. We are definitely getting somewhere.
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2481
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 02:44:27 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

Um, people are trying to help me out here. I can't repair the battery pack myself, I'm getting a technician at Battery Plus who is willing to repair the battery pack.

I've had to wait patiently for months and months to get a new battery pack and since there are no replacement parts available, I'm gonna let a technician try to disassemble the battery pack since I'm not capable of doing so myself.

Yahoo! Message number: 2482
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 02:48:16 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

It would definitely be a better idea to send the battery pack in for rebuilding. It would be a huge loss to toss the battery pack and everything else associated with the GRiD 2270 in the trash.

Again, I will never determine what dead batteries were used in the battery pack and see what type of batteries will work.

I will try hard to get a technician at Batteries Plus to get the battery pack rebuilt. Techies will need to cut the battery pack open carefully and look at the dead batteries to determine which replacement NiCAD batteries will work with the battery pack itself.

Yahoo! Message number: 2483
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 03:34:38 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

Last time I rebuilt a battery pack I opened it first to measure the physical size of the cells and then went through the Digikey catalog for the highest capacity cells that would fit the enclosure...  If you're going to order from ebay you might want to be sure that they give physical dimensions.

That said, This goes for NiCd and NiMH cells only... I have never attempted to rebuild a Lithium Ion battery pack and doubt that it would be a wise thing for most of us to do.   Lithium cells are not safe and are required to have three safety devices installed inside the battery pack... and, in spite of all those precautions, have resulted in some pretty spectacular fires. 










--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, jim s <jws@...> wrote:
>
>
> On 7/22/2012 2:58 PM, Rainbow wrote:
> > Thanks again for the clues! What product are you referring to in the eBay item 390103001986?
>
> Description for auction 390103001986: C Rechargeable Battery 2500mAh
> NiCd 1.2V Flat Top w/Tab
>
> so battery and tab in the ebay search box would bring this one up.
>
> http://www/ebay.com/itm/390103001986
>
> did you hit this auction?
>
> Jim
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2484
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 11:56:46 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

Good idea.

If I were you, I'd avoid Lithium cells as they're prone to fires. NiCD and NiMH are safer. :)

And in order to get the dead batteries replaced, it would be a very good idea to measure the physical size of the cells.

The 2,500 mAh battery one user pointed out earlier, weighs 2.56 ounces (72.64 grams), measures in .98 inches (24.9 millimetres) in width and 1.95 inches (49.5 millimetres) in height.

I'm gonna write down the list of what I want to replace/rebuild and then I'm going to bed. It's almost 5 AM here. :(

Yahoo! Message number: 2485
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 10:51:57 -0400
From: robert
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: one more attempt
text/plain; charset=windows-1252

you will have to measure and find cells that will fit. they may not exactly
be the same size or capacity but you can always go a tad smaller so its
easier to work on the pack. the capacity may be a little less.

you can also obtain individual cells from a place like this..
http://www.batteriesamerica.com/newpage3.htm

go down to about 1/3 page for a whole list of sanyo cells.

they sell tabbed and non-tabbed cells. i have bought from them before. the
sanyo brand cells are excellent and what is actually used in many store
bought packs.


On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 7:56 AM, Rainbow <rainbow_utonium@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Good idea.
>
> If I were you, I'd avoid Lithium cells as they're prone to fires. NiCD and
> NiMH are safer. :)
>
> And in order to get the dead batteries replaced, it would be a very good
> idea to measure the physical size of the cells.
>
> The 2,500 mAh battery one user pointed out earlier, weighs 2.56 ounces
> (72.64 grams), measures in .98 inches (24.9 millimetres) in width and 1.95
> inches (49.5 millimetres) in height.
>
> I'm gonna write down the list of what I want to replace/rebuild and then
> I'm going to bed. It's almost 5 AM here. :(
>
>
>



--


73 de ke4mcl
"contesting on ham radio is like racing ford pintos, win or lose, other
people are still gonna laugh at you!"

Yahoo! Message number: 2486
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 18:39:42 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

Thanks so much for the help once again. When the technicians get the battery pack open, they'll measure the current cells that are in there and find new ones that will fit.

I will be going into town later today and I will have the Batteries Plus technicians look at it and see what they can do. :)

Yahoo! Message number: 2487
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 18:59:48 -0000
From: "c40179 at aol.com"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

 : ) lol ..lotsa lotsa messages..

Just wanted to say you know you dOn'T nEED the batteries to work for the laptop to work ..they made it seem that way but it was just a bad design on their part.
(Actually I think a trend for a little while i'm thinking to FORCE people to have to buy more batteries)

and oH ok I went a yanked out a 2270 : ) lol ..literaly yanked and things falling etc. ..i'm crushed in my tiny apt : ) lol

AND the battery compartment literally just cracked open really easy in my hand for soe reason : ) LOL .. so any questions???

Anyways..Worse case scenerio you can just cut the wires and stick'em on those little mettal pins sticking out with the hardly ledgeble R Y B ..probably red positive and black negative..and even though the battery says 9.6volts the laptop says it'll take 8-16volts.

I just grabbed a power-supply before and stuck a couple alligator clips on the wires to clip on the posts and it started right up.

Yahoo! Message number: 2488
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 23:33:59 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

I didn't know that.

I also didn't know that I don't even need the batteries to for the rugged tablet PC to work.

I kinda thinking that GRiD built those batteries with a AC adapter attached to the battery pack was just a bad design on their part.

I see that there are metal pins sticking out with the hardly ledged RYB. By the way, what is RYB? Red positive, black negative and the battery saying 9.6 volts...so with a 1.2 volt battery, I'm guessing that it will take 8 batteries...so you have good point there.

I didn't know that you could start up the 2270 with a generic power supply and a couple of alligator clips on the wires to clip the posts in order for it to work. :D

I'm wondering where can you find a generic power supply and alligator clips.

By the way, I did go to Batteries Plus, but the technicians over there could not even take the battery apart properly as they have no knowledge on how to even do that. What a pity.

I guess that my last hope would be to take it to a hobbiest who is willing to take the battery apart carefully without breaking it.

Yahoo! Message number: 2490
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 05:43:06 -0000
From: "c40179 at aol.com"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

(rambly hardly-edited 2am reply)

Re: one more attempt

> I guess that my last hope would be to take it to a hobbiest
>who is willing to take the battery apart carefully
>without breaking it.

Yeah I tried opening one before with an exacto in a stOOpid way and cut my finger open baDLY! (blood blood blood..ER..stitches ow) ..but then this one I said "hEY look the battery pack"..and squeezed it and it broke open : ) LOL ...either I Already broke it open in the past or the old glue gave-way : ) lol

you can find someone to open it but just in case first try whacking it on the side a couple times : ) heh heh

I "AssuUme" it's red yellow black ..and yeah red-positive black-negative I Guess yellow-ground?

(other people here'd know better..AND might be yelling at their computer screens right now yEAH Yeah i know i know..hey i build animatronics and displays, scenics murals robots but have been run so ragged with lack of work in philadelphia that my electronics side never got enough development time so now i'm the quick and dirty and duct-tape kinda guy)

>I kinda thinking that GRiD built those batteries with a AC adapter attached to the battery pack was just a bad design on their part.

yeah I don't know how common that was (iS?) but I know IBM had it like that on their powerbooks which IS a good way to foRce people to keep the battery's charged (AND might even act as a buffer in case there's a jolt..it'll jolt the battery but not the pc itself)..BUT yeah once the battery went bad it just seems like a MEAN thing to do to people!

>so with a 1.2 volt battery, I'm guessing that it will take 8 batteries

yeah there's 8 in there..
AND woW Was i wrong about the circuit board..
I remebered it being simple but naw it's got a couple layers and some circuitry AND there's like ?5 wires coming out of the battery pack so maybe there's connections to each pair or something?

> I'm wondering where can you find a generic power supply and alligator clips.

oh geeez..well hang on first i gotta sm..wait they havn't invented 3D
reach-through interactive screens yet..DAMN ..i was gonna smack you in the head
first(in a NICE! way not the mean way ..the funny ha ha way) .. (..so ok step one if
you could please smack yerself in the head for me thanks :) (hee hee) ..THEN B: was
gonna say you could get one ... ...mmm  ..mmmm .. ...anYwhere actually : ) lol

I was gonna say power-supplies are at radio-shack ..
but also generic ones at rite-aid pharmacy
..geez maybe even the Grocery Store (lol) ...BUT..but those would probably be pretty weak..more for small cd players etc.
so ok i'll just say radio shack..
AND..OH wait ..I missed the earlier posts are you in the US??

If you're outside the US then I'd just say look for any electronics parts places in the phone book etc.
BUT!..
first to save money just try a thrift store and see if you can find a power supply or two for $1 each or something ..
AND I wouldn't look for one that's the whole 2.3amps just get something around 1-amp (1000ma) more or less to start, because if you're poking at something as a test it's alot nicer to slip and hit a wrong pin with half of what it's willing to take rather than JoLT it with the whole 2.3 amps ..
i "ThinK" it was working ok with somewhere around 1amp

AND I guess it doesn't even have to be 9-volts either just anything around that..
I'd try for 9 or 10 first though but you'll be able to find lots of 12-volt adapters once you start looking.

but as for the alligator clips yeah some kind of electronics parts store.


hey do you got the pen with it?

Yahoo! Message number: 2491
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:43:29 -0000
From: "Rainbow"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

Ouch that's not good. Unfortunately, trying to find ways to take the battery apart is the only viable option.

Sadly, it is nearly impossible to even find someone who is willing to take the battery apart. The battery pack itself is sealed so tight, there is no way to take the battery apart without a high risk of breaking it and there will be absolutely no assurance that the rugged tablet PC will continue to work as is once the battery pack is rebuilt/repaired.

GRiD Computer Systems built that tablet PC that way and since they're out of business, the product hasn't been sold or supported by GRiD for nearly two decades now.

It's possible to try whacking the battery pack on the side, but there are risks to irreparable damage to the battery pack itself, despite the fact that it's made out of magnesium.

> I "AssuUme" it's red yellow black ..and yeah red-positive black-negative I Guess yellow-ground?

That's what I might be thinking, but I will never know until there are ways to get the battery pack open and replacing the dead cells.

> (other people here'd know better..AND might be yelling at their computer screens right now yEAH Yeah i know i know..hey i build animatronics and displays, scenics murals robots but have been run so ragged with lack of work in philadelphia that my electronics side never got enough development time so now i'm the quick and dirty and duct-tape kinda guy)

> yeah I don't know how common that was (iS?) but I know IBM had it like that on their powerbooks which IS a good way to foRce people to keep the battery's charged (AND might even act as a buffer in case there's a jolt..it'll jolt the battery but not the pc itself)..BUT yeah once the battery went bad it just seems like a MEAN thing to do to people!

Early IBM PS/note and Thinkpad-based laptops can never be compared to the 68030/68040-based Powerbooks. Those 386SX-based notebook computers still work as is without the need of the battery, because the battery does not hold a charge anymore.


> yeah there's 8 in there..
> AND woW Was i wrong about the circuit board..
> I remebered it being simple but naw it's got a couple layers and some circuitry AND there's like ?5 wires coming out of the battery pack so maybe there's connections to each pair or something?

I too believe that people are wrong about the circuit board, but it's the battery pack itself. There are lots of wires that attach to the battery pack. If the dead batteries are gonna be replaced, they need de-soldiered with a soldiering iron...carefully.


If I can, we're gonna try to take some photos of the battery pack to get a better picture of what it looks like.

Yahoo! Message number: 2492
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 06:59:24 -0400
From: "Len.C"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: one more attempt
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

You will find that the cells are not soldered to each other but spot 
welded.  One of the reason you will need to find a place that can 
rebuilt it for you.  Ya you could solder them but I doubt you could do a 
good enough job so they would fit back into the case.  As most people 
including myself have learned, you get one too hot and its out to 
lunch.  You could plug the vent hole in one and not know it. Plug that 
into your grid and then charge it and when that one lets go kiss the 
grid goodbye.  You may also find, unless the pack is marked NiCad that 
they are not NiCad cells in there, and if they aren't then they explode 
even better than NiCads.

When I fist messed with batteries in my early teens, I was given some 
new D cells, they didn't have the tit on the positive end so I put some 
solder on them, never overheated them but managed to cover up a vent 
hole.  Stuck them in a 4 cell charger and went to bed, all was fine in 
the morning when I left for school.  I came home and was like WTF!  The 
charger was destroyed, I never did find it all.  3 of the cells where on 
the floor and the 4th one was well, I found the outside case of it, well 
part of it and wasn't able to find the rest of it.  Even when I moved 
out and cleared everything out of the room I still didn't find the rest 
of it.

You have been given names of places to send it to.  You local yahoos 
well you know what they know which isn't much.  But that doesn't mean 
that some other place can't rebuild it.

I don't know where you get your ideas from.  If it works now or did work 
before the pack died then after a rebuild there is no reason it should 
not work.

Why would grid want to continue to sell that model or support over the 
last 20 years?

I have never seen a battery pack made out of magnesium, are you sure 
that its not plastic?

You are what?  13 ? 14 years old?




On 7/24/2012 4:43 AM, Rainbow wrote:
>
> Ouch that's not good. Unfortunately, trying to find ways to take the 
> battery apart is the only viable option.
>
> Sadly, it is nearly impossible to even find someone who is willing to 
> take the battery apart. The battery pack itself is sealed so tight, 
> there is no way to take the battery apart without a high risk of 
> breaking it and there will be absolutely no assurance that the rugged 
> tablet PC will continue to work as is once the battery pack is 
> rebuilt/repaired.
>
> GRiD Computer Systems built that tablet PC that way and since they're 
> out of business, the product hasn't been sold or supported by GRiD for 
> nearly two decades now.
>
> It's possible to try whacking the battery pack on the side, but there 
> are risks to irreparable damage to the battery pack itself, despite 
> the fact that it's made out of magnesium.
>
> > I "AssuUme" it's red yellow black ..and yeah red-positive 
> black-negative I Guess yellow-ground?
>
> That's what I might be thinking, but I will never know until there are 
> ways to get the battery pack open and replacing the dead cells.
>
> > (other people here'd know better..AND might be yelling at their 
> computer screens right now yEAH Yeah i know i know..hey i build 
> animatronics and displays, scenics murals robots but have been run so 
> ragged with lack of work in philadelphia that my electronics side 
> never got enough development time so now i'm the quick and dirty and 
> duct-tape kinda guy)
>
> > yeah I don't know how common that was (iS?) but I know IBM had it 
> like that on their powerbooks which IS a good way to foRce people to 
> keep the battery's charged (AND might even act as a buffer in case 
> there's a jolt..it'll jolt the battery but not the pc itself)..BUT 
> yeah once the battery went bad it just seems like a MEAN thing to do 
> to people!
>
> Early IBM PS/note and Thinkpad-based laptops can never be compared to 
> the 68030/68040-based Powerbooks. Those 386SX-based notebook computers 
> still work as is without the need of the battery, because the battery 
> does not hold a charge anymore.
>
> > yeah there's 8 in there..
> > AND woW Was i wrong about the circuit board..
> > I remebered it being simple but naw it's got a couple layers and 
> some circuitry AND there's like ?5 wires coming out of the battery 
> pack so maybe there's connections to each pair or something?
>
> I too believe that people are wrong about the circuit board, but it's 
> the battery pack itself. There are lots of wires that attach to the 
> battery pack. If the dead batteries are gonna be replaced, they need 
> de-soldiered with a soldiering iron...carefully.
>
> If I can, we're gonna try to take some photos of the battery pack to 
> get a better picture of what it looks like.
>
> 

Yahoo! Message number: 2493
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:18:46 -0400
From: robert
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: one more attempt
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 wow...

some misinformation floating here...

the yellow lead is more than likely a sense lead. commercial radios do this
for their battery packs. the pack is charged as a whole but only one cell
is monitored. when that one cell reached its fully charged voltage the
charger cuts out. its a lousy way to do things because the whole pack is
charged according to the health of that one cell. thats how it was commonly
done in the NiCad days though.

you can solder your own packs together. YOUR skill will determine whether
or not you can do it. this is why cells with solder tabs are sold for
people making custom packs. kids into R/C cars do it all the time and they
are pulling serious amps from their packs. you'll need a real solder gun of
like 150-200w. a puny 30w pencil tip iron wont cut it.

cell polarity can sometimes be hard to visually determine due to odd cell
construction. harbor freight, northern tool, or any of those chinese toll
vendors generally have cheap digital meters for under $5 that are more than
adequate for figuring out which end is positive on a battery.

getting the batteries open can be daunting but there's tricks. most
computer packs are sealed (no screws). place battery in vise with seam
running horizontally and slowly tighten down on it. your waiting for pops
in the plastic case. once you get one, loosen the vise and turn the pack
and crunch from another angle till you get another POP! eventually you'll
be able to work a screwdriver into the seam and use it to work the plastic
case open.

resealing the case will require some crazy glue and fixing the case seams
you mucked up from the screwdriver.

yes, it can be done. i've done it. is it for the un-brave, faint hearted,
or unskilled? no. if you dont have a hint of McGuyver in your soul you're
better off paying an arm and a leg and letting some place like batteries
plus do it for you.

Yahoo! Message number: 2494
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:07:36 -0700
From: jim s
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: one more attempt

Since I don't have such and thought it was plastic, and it is magnesium, 
the working of the metal presents a fire hazard.

Be very careful working magnesium.  I was going to suggest using a 
dremel tool to cut it open, but that is out.  I wouldn't even drill it.

About the only safe work you have magnesium is pressure (cutting with an 
arbor press or shear) or the knife.  Other than that find some machinest 
who knows how to work it.

I see why the battery guys rejected you.  They can work hard plastic all 
day long, but not magnesium metal.

You might see if you have any contacts or local light machine works with 
someone who might give an idea on how to work the thing and cut it open, 
but I'm sorry, nowhere did you mention we were working metal.  the 
corrosion risk is way higher too, with alkali leakage onto magnesium 
very bad.

Are you sure this box you are working has any batteries?

I'm not sure, but recall that Grid had a unique system of interchanging 
power sources, and not combining batteries and AC. There were a 
multitude of units on the surplus market shaped like a small grid 
battery pack for a long time out here which were AC units only.  You pop 
out the battery and put in this unit and plug it into the wall.  IIRC 
that model had two battery locations, and you put one of the battery 
packs in one side, and a power supply in the other one, and you could 
charge a battery.  Or if you were totally mobile you had a battery in each.

Another one must have had a battery charging station, since you could 
only put in either battery or PS.

I apologize to the other list members if all of this was explained 
previously.  the light bulb just went on for me here, since I was 
working from memory.

Jim

On 7/24/2012 1:43 AM, Rainbow wrote:
> It's possible to try whacking the battery pack on the side, but there are risks to irreparable damage to the battery pack itself, despite the fact that it's made out of magnesium.

Yahoo! Message number: 2495
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 17:23:52 -0000
From: "c40179 at aol.com"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

>wow...
>some misinformation floating here...
>the yellow lead is more than likely a sense lead

I was gonna say wheW!..
I was thinking there'd be quite a few things in there.
(yeah I was predicting that one)
(I remember just skipping the center post)

>I too believe that people are wrong about the circuit board,
>but it's the battery pack itself.

ARgh! ..
OR!!..Sorry YeaH I didn't realize maybe i'm being stupid!
I was "assuming" I used a regular power supply because the pack was worn out which must've made it not work...OR...i'm totally wrong and it Does work with a worn-out pack.
(maybe back then the first one I bought just didn't have a pack?)

(I just meant in the earlier post I said it was probably a 'simple' circuit-board..which was wrong)

If everything wasn't buried under boxes and other laptops..a couple Osbournes etc. i'd dig and try everything out.

>Early IBM PS/note and Thinkpad-based laptops can never be compared to the 68030/68040-based Powerbooks

oop..sorry I should've said thinkpad BUT/AND still trying to remember the details..I remember having problems powering one of those when the battery went..not all of'em though.


chris
c40179@...
http://www.ChristopherHillman.com

Yahoo! Message number: 2496
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 12:29:27 -0400
From: "Tom Rutherford"
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: one more attempt

My GRiD 1520 has a switching power supply that slides into the battery 
compartment.  I didn't get a battery (or anything else, really) with the 
computer.  But, if the computer housing is magnesium or a magnesium alloy, 
then it does stand to reason that the battery pack might be, too.

-- 73 DE Tom Rutherford, N8EUJ, Burton, MI
"She said it was either her or the ham radio.  Over."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jim s" <jws@...>
To: <RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: one more attempt


> Since I don't have such and thought it was plastic, and it is magnesium,
> the working of the metal presents a fire hazard.
>
> Be very careful working magnesium.  I was going to suggest using a
> dremel tool to cut it open, but that is out.  I wouldn't even drill it.
>
> About the only safe work you have magnesium is pressure (cutting with an
> arbor press or shear) or the knife.  Other than that find some machinest
> who knows how to work it.
>
> I see why the battery guys rejected you.  They can work hard plastic all
> day long, but not magnesium metal.
>
> You might see if you have any contacts or local light machine works with
> someone who might give an idea on how to work the thing and cut it open,
> but I'm sorry, nowhere did you mention we were working metal.  the
> corrosion risk is way higher too, with alkali leakage onto magnesium
> very bad.
>
> Are you sure this box you are working has any batteries?
>
> I'm not sure, but recall that Grid had a unique system of interchanging
> power sources, and not combining batteries and AC. There were a
> multitude of units on the surplus market shaped like a small grid
> battery pack for a long time out here which were AC units only.  You pop
> out the battery and put in this unit and plug it into the wall.  IIRC
> that model had two battery locations, and you put one of the battery
> packs in one side, and a power supply in the other one, and you could
> charge a battery.  Or if you were totally mobile you had a battery in 
> each.
>
> Another one must have had a battery charging station, since you could
> only put in either battery or PS.
>
> I apologize to the other list members if all of this was explained
> previously.  the light bulb just went on for me here, since I was
> working from memory.
>
> Jim
>
> On 7/24/2012 1:43 AM, Rainbow wrote:
>> It's possible to try whacking the battery pack on the side, but there are 
>> risks to irreparable damage to the battery pack itself, despite the fact 
>> that it's made out of magnesium.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rugrid-laptop/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2497
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:56:49 -0000
From: "Androgenoide"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

I approached the cutting of magnesium with some trepidation at first but, having successfully modded one Itronix case with a Dremel cut-off disk, I'm guessing that it can be done as long as a person is careful not to get the metal too hot.   If you were to try cutting the case with a Zona saw (a new one with sharp edges... or even a jeweler's saw, if you have one) it would be unlikely to get hot enough to do anything weird.
Just an opinion... take it for what it's worth.









--- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, jim s <jws@...> wrote:
>
> Since I don't have such and thought it was plastic, and it is magnesium,
> the working of the metal presents a fire hazard.
>
> Be very careful working magnesium.  I was going to suggest using a
> dremel tool to cut it open, but that is out.  I wouldn't even drill it.
>
> About the only safe work you have magnesium is pressure (cutting with an 
> arbor press or shear) or the knife.  Other than that find some machinest
> who knows how to work it.
>
> I see why the battery guys rejected you.  They can work hard plastic all
> day long, but not magnesium metal.
>
> You might see if you have any contacts or local light machine works with
> someone who might give an idea on how to work the thing and cut it open, 
> but I'm sorry, nowhere did you mention we were working metal.  the
> corrosion risk is way higher too, with alkali leakage onto magnesium
> very bad.
>
> Are you sure this box you are working has any batteries?
>
> I'm not sure, but recall that Grid had a unique system of interchanging
> power sources, and not combining batteries and AC. There were a
> multitude of units on the surplus market shaped like a small grid
> battery pack for a long time out here which were AC units only.  You pop
> out the battery and put in this unit and plug it into the wall.  IIRC
> that model had two battery locations, and you put one of the battery
> packs in one side, and a power supply in the other one, and you could
> charge a battery.  Or if you were totally mobile you had a battery in each.
>
> Another one must have had a battery charging station, since you could
> only put in either battery or PS.
>
> I apologize to the other list members if all of this was explained
> previously.  the light bulb just went on for me here, since I was
> working from memory.
>
> Jim
>
> On 7/24/2012 1:43 AM, Rainbow wrote:
> > It's possible to try whacking the battery pack on the side, but there are risks to irreparable damage to the battery pack itself, despite the fact that it's made out of magnesium.
>

Yahoo! Message number: 2498
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 13:41:36 -0400
From: robert
Subject: Re: [RuGRiD-Laptop] Re: one more attempt
text/plain; charset=windows-1252

grid 1500 batteries are made of plastic. the power supply modules are metal.

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Androgenoide <androgenoide@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> I approached the cutting of magnesium with some trepidation at first but,
> having successfully modded one Itronix case with a Dremel cut-off disk, I'm
> guessing that it can be done as long as a person is careful not to get the
> metal too hot. If you were to try cutting the case with a Zona saw (a new
> one with sharp edges... or even a jeweler's saw, if you have one) it would
> be unlikely to get hot enough to do anything weird.
> Just an opinion... take it for what it's worth.
>
>
> --- In RuGRiD-Laptop@yahoogroups.com, jim s <jws@...> wrote:
> >
> > Since I don't have such and thought it was plastic, and it is magnesium,
> > the working of the metal presents a fire hazard.
> >
> > Be very careful working magnesium. I was going to suggest using a
> > dremel tool to cut it open, but that is out. I wouldn't even drill it.
> >
> > About the only safe work you have magnesium is pressure (cutting with an
> > arbor press or shear) or the knife. Other than that find some machinest
> > who knows how to work it.
> >
> > I see why the battery guys rejected you. They can work hard plastic all
> > day long, but not magnesium metal.
> >
> > You might see if you have any contacts or local light machine works with
> > someone who might give an idea on how to work the thing and cut it open,
> > but I'm sorry, nowhere did you mention we were working metal. the
> > corrosion risk is way higher too, with alkali leakage onto magnesium
> > very bad.
> >
> > Are you sure this box you are working has any batteries?
> >
> > I'm not sure, but recall that Grid had a unique system of interchanging
> > power sources, and not combining batteries and AC. There were a
> > multitude of units on the surplus market shaped like a small grid
> > battery pack for a long time out here which were AC units only. You pop
> > out the battery and put in this unit and plug it into the wall. IIRC
> > that model had two battery locations, and you put one of the battery
> > packs in one side, and a power supply in the other one, and you could
> > charge a battery. Or if you were totally mobile you had a battery in
> each.
> >
> > Another one must have had a battery charging station, since you could
> > only put in either battery or PS.
> >
> > I apologize to the other list members if all of this was explained
> > previously. the light bulb just went on for me here, since I was
> > working from memory.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > On 7/24/2012 1:43 AM, Rainbow wrote:
> > > It's possible to try whacking the battery pack on the side, but there
> are risks to irreparable damage to the battery pack itself, despite the
> fact that it's made out of magnesium.
> >
>
>
>



--


73 de ke4mcl
"contesting on ham radio is like racing ford pintos, win or lose, other
people are still gonna laugh at you!"

Yahoo! Message number: 2499
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:26:19 -0000
From: "c40179 at aol.com"
Subject: Re: one more attempt

naw i'm guessing the battery pack's actually plastic ..
I don't RemembeR ever seeing a grid 2270 pack that was metal BUT/AND the pics in the [photo] section uploaded here look like plastic.

AND..the 'Handle' that's cracking..you can't tell from the pics but I realized that that's actually probably one of the two little plastic pockets that slide onto the two metal..'giant screw heads' on the back of tha laptop ..the plastic pockets break all the time.

It's a NeaT little laptop..interesting Ideas with the flip-top touchscreen that flips up and back to reveal the keyboard..

(gee hard to find good photos)

http://static.elespectador.com/especiales/2011/05/9c2d112468cebdd2e8658790a1ddd97b/images/1992-GRiD-Systems-2260.jpg

you just need the pen with batteries for the touchscreen.
Not as rugged as the other grids..pen clip would break..little flip-arms would break..battery pockets would break (because of bad design) ..screen could break.
(didn't seem like a military design as much as an interesting 'versitile' design)